Increasing the run up for the Pegasus? Would an extra 30 to 60 feet be more fair?

[Andy Asaro]

https://twitter.com/racetrackandy/status/954013183819186176

[cj]

Nope, bad idea. Gulfstream already plays too many games with run up. Also, I don't care about track records but many do. This would give the race an unfair advantage over others previously run at the distance. Just run the damn race, 30 or 60 feet isn't going to matter anyway.

[letswastemoney]

I'd want it to be 10 furlongs, but that would mean less horses probably.

[cj]

I'd want it to be 10 furlongs, but that would mean less horses probably.

They have never run the distance so I assume they can't, but could be wrong. They can and have run 1 3/16 miles.

[Delta Cone]

They have never run the distance so I assume they can't, but could be wrong. They can and have run 1 3/16 miles.

The 1999 Breeders Cup Classic at GP was run at 10 furlongs.

Although perhaps they’ve reconfigured the track since then?

[cj]

The 1999 Breeders Cup Classic at GP was run at 10 furlongs.

Although perhaps they’ve reconfigured the track since then?

Yes, it has changed since then by a lot.

[Tom]

30 or 60 - they are going to mis-time it any ways, so stop playing around.

[dilanesp]

I am sure they can run 10 furlongs and start at the 1/8th pole if they want to.

But 1 3/16 miles would do the trick- 9 furlongs is too short a run into the first turn for a big field.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

30 or 60 - they are going to mis-time it any ways, so stop playing around.

I just clocked Toast Of New York crossing the line 1st at 1:46.28

[Suff]

Can you believe its $75 dollars for a general admission ticket at Gulfstream Park for this race?

For the 2017 Florida Derby it was free admission and I got a nice seat in the Simulcast lounge for $10 or 20 dollars.

For the 2017 Kentucky Derby Day, and Breeders Cup Day @ Gulfstream I paid $60.00 a head for 2 for a table of 4 seats @ Ten Palms on the Glass! And it included the buffet.

That same table for this Pegasus race is $4000! $1000 a seat and you have to buy all 4.

The Simulcast seats are $100 a pop!

$750 for a seat near the Paddock.

Grandstand is $180 on the turn, $225 on the stretch.

Its crazy town prices!

I have to believe that if they find 10,000 people to attend they will be lucky.

If they fill the place up the on-track handle might be enormous.

Its $250 to sit at the bar!

Forget the handle, they might pull in 2 million at the Door!

[cj]

Can you believe its $75 dollars for a general admission ticket at Gulfstream Park for this race?

For the 2017 Florida Derby it was free admission and I got a nice seat in the Simulcast lounge for $10 or 20 dollars.

For the 2017 Kentucky Derby Day, and Breeders Cup Day @ Gulfstream I paid $60.00 a head for 2 for a table of 4 seats @ Ten Palms on the Glass! And it included the buffet.

That same table for this Pegasus race is $4000! $1000 a seat and you have to buy all 4.

The Simulcast seats are $100 a pop!

$750 for a seat near the Paddock.

Grandstand is $180 on the turn, $225 on the stretch.

Its crazy town prices!

I have to believe that if they find 10,000 people to attend they will be lucky.

If they fill the place up the on-track handle might be enormous.

Its $250 to sit at the bar!

Forget the handle, they might pull in 2 million at the Door!

They don't want the regular horseplayer there.

[onefast99]

They don't want the regular horseplayer there.
Can we look at all the Classics and BC races where you will drop a fortune to sit in a nice seat with a decent view on those special race days and then compare the purses on those days with the Pegasus Days purses, also GP is a smaller venue and practically every seat is a good one. The day is priced right they want the celebrities to show up and it is a showcase event. It sold out last year as the match race between Arrogate and Chrome was the draw now this year they have made Gun Runner the huge favorite with 11 others trying to get at least 4th place(break even point)great event for an otherwise slow time of year. Nicely done by the Stronach Group.

[cj]

Can we look at all the Classics and BC races where you will drop a fortune to sit in a nice seat with a decent view on those special race days and then compare the purses on those days with the Pegasus Days purses, also GP is a smaller venue and practically every seat is a good one. The day is priced right they want the celebrities to show up and it is a showcase event. It sold out last year as the match race between Arrogate and Chrome was the draw now this year they have made Gun Runner the huge favorite with 11 others trying to get at least 4th place(break even point)great event for an otherwise slow time of year. Nicely done by the Stronach Group.

Comparing Pegasus day to BC day is really a non starter, and Pegasus day is more expensive in general. They can do what they want. It is his race track, though Belinda is probably calling the shots now. I'm just stating the obvious...they don't want regular Joes there.

[dilanesp]

Comparing Pegasus day to BC day is really a non starter, and Pegasus day is more expensive in general. They can do what they want. It is his race track, though Belinda is probably calling the shots now. I'm just stating the obvious...they don't want regular Joes there.

Pegasuus day is more expensive on the bottom end, because Gulfstream Park East is so small.

But the top level tickets for the BC- turf clubs / millionaire's row- can get quite expensive.

[Tom]

30-60 feet for the run up has been rules out by Franky.
But he will increase the parking by $30-$60 instead.

If you come early, you can get breakfast that day.
Where else can you get a 3 minute egg in a minute and 40 seconds?

[Andy Asaro]

30-60 feet for the run up has been rules out by Franky.
But he will increase the parking by $30-$60 instead.

If you come early, you can get breakfast that day.
Where else can you get a 3 minute egg in a minute and 40 seconds?

Don't be surprised if it happens. Pretty sure the Owners would agree. We'll see.

[Fager Fan]

Comparing Pegasus day to BC day is really a non starter, and Pegasus day is more expensive in general. They can do what they want. It is his race track, though Belinda is probably calling the shots now. I'm just stating the obvious...they don't want regular Joes there.

You know they don't care if it's Regular Joe or Extraordinary Joe who is there. They only want to get as much as they can in ticket sales.

[Andy Asaro]

Watchmaker: Post-position draw paramount in Pegasus

http://www.drf.com/news/watchmaker-post-position-draw-paramount-pegasus

Excerpt:

That’s why I suggested that what happens at the Pegasus draw could, just for starters, change the way the race is bet. I can’t envision any scenario where Gun Runner isn’t strongly favored. But if Gun Runner draws a reasonably good post, I think he’s as big a cinch to be an odds-on favorite as he is to be named Horse of the Year. And good luck beating him. But if Gun Runner draws, say, post 10 or wider, I suspect his price will be higher than even-money, and he will suddenly become a vulnerable favorite.

Makes you wonder if post positions should ever have that kind of impact.

[cj]

Watchmaker: Post-position draw paramount in Pegasus

http://www.drf.com/news/watchmaker-post-position-draw-paramount-pegasus

Excerpt:

That’s why I suggested that what happens at the Pegasus draw could, just for starters, change the way the race is bet. I can’t envision any scenario where Gun Runner isn’t strongly favored. But if Gun Runner draws a reasonably good post, I think he’s as big a cinch to be an odds-on favorite as he is to be named Horse of the Year. And good luck beating him. But if Gun Runner draws, say, post 10 or wider, I suspect his price will be higher than even-money, and he will suddenly become a vulnerable favorite.

Makes you wonder if post positions should ever have that kind of impact.

Tracks should schedule races at distances that don't create this sort of thing. But horsemen, for the most part, bring it on themselves. They run ridiculous 1m 1/16 races at Laurel which start almost on the turn because trainers don't want to run 9f.

[Andy Asaro]

Tracks should schedule races at distances that don't create this sort of thing. But horsemen, for the most part, bring it on themselves. They run ridiculous 1m 1/16 races at Laurel which start almost on the turn because trainers don't want to run 9f.

I've always thought of it as some sort of "class" thing. Somehow they feel like a mile and one eighth is more classy than three sixteenths. And it's definitely what you say.

[VigorsTheGrey]

They don't want the regular horseplayer there.

Expect the "Regular South Florida Set" there like last year...

http://worldredeye.com/2017/01/pegasus-world-cup-invitational-2017-gulfstream-park/

[onefast99]

Comparing Pegasus day to BC day is really a non starter, and Pegasus day is more expensive in general. They can do what they want. It is his race track, though Belinda is probably calling the shots now. I'm just stating the obvious...they don't want regular Joes there.
Belinda has to approve any corporate changes.

[Andy Asaro]

https://twitter.com/DRFPrivman/status/955523332610248704

[iamt]

The only connections who should be for this change are those of Gun Runner.

The others as a whole are better off leaving it as is.

[Andy Asaro]

https://twitter.com/racetrackandy/status/955578961458642944

[cj]

Gulfstream has the most to gain by doing things right, that is for sure.

[Andy Asaro]

Gulfstream has the most to gain by doing things right, that is for sure.

Amen.

[letswastemoney]

So if they do this and Gun Runner draws wide, will he still be a lock to win then?

[Andy Asaro]

https://twitter.com/PatCummingsHK/status/955813470338916357

[Fager Fan]

https://twitter.com/PatCummingsHK/status/955813470338916357

Metric system? Why on earth would we do that when we don't use the metric system in this country? And why does he think we can't make an exact measurement without doing so in the metric system? Does he also want us to start reporting weight in stones?

[Andy Asaro]

Metric system? Why on earth would we do that when we don't use the metric system in this country? And why does he think we can't make an exact measurement without doing so in the metric system? Does he also want us to start reporting weight in stones?

I asked his opinion and that's his answer. I don't like Metric system either. He was affiliated with Trakus and knows something about timing races.

[Tom]

You give theses guys millimeter and they take a kilometer!

[Andy Asaro]

You give theses guys millimeter and they take a kilometer!

:lol:

[Andy Asaro]

https://twitter.com/ScottTVG/status/955830894832562176

[Denny]

AA,

Were you invited to the Pegasus by Ritvo and TSG, or not?

I think you're an Andy advocate, not a so-called horseplayer advocate.

[cj]

Metric part aside, Pat is spot on. Timing races the way we do now is comical to be honest. There is no downside to giving bettors the best data possible.

[Andy Asaro]

AA,

Were you invited to the Pegasus by Ritvo and TSG, or not?

I think you're an Andy advocate, not a so-called horseplayer advocate.

You misrepresented facts in order to smear me.

[Fager Fan]

Metric part aside, Pat is spot on. Timing races the way we do now is comical to be honest. There is no downside to giving bettors the best data possible.

You'd go insane if you lived in Europe.

[cj]

You'd go insane if you lived in Europe.

LOL, I did live in Europe for five years...Mons, Belgium.

[Denny]

cj,

Why did I receive an infraction from you on my comment to AA?

I asked questions. Is that not allowed here?

Are people here above reproach?

Was he invited to GP by TSG and Ritvo to attend the Pegasus or not, is what I asked him???

He is supposedly a self-proclaimed horseplayer representative.

Who exactly he represents is what i'd like to know.

He has insulted me at another website before this when I've questioned his motives.

[GMB@BP]

cj,

Why did I receive an infraction from you on my comment to AA?

I asked questions. Is that not allowed here?

Are people here above reproach?

Was he invited to GP by TSG and Ritvo to attend the Pegasus or not, is what I asked him???

He is supposedly a self-proclaimed horseplayer representative.

Who exactly he represents is what i'd like to know.

He has insulted me at another website before this when I've questioned his motives.

Maybe you should just have a private conversation to discuss your agenda rather then muddy up the thread?

[Denny]

I also "ASKED" somewhere else, on another thread somewhere if his expenses were being paid for by The Stronach Group to attend the Pegasus.

He smeared me with a vulgarity at HRI. Something I don't need to repeat. But, will if you ask.

Maybe he misread that there were Question Marks attached to my phrases.
Not Periods, as one would when making a statement.

[jay68802]

Metric part aside, Pat is spot on. Timing races the way we do now is comical to be honest. There is no downside to giving bettors the best data possible.

Absolutely correct, there is only a upside for everyone.

And Andy, were you invited to the Pegasus by Ritvo and TSG, or not?

If you were go, have a great time, and if you get a chance, express your opinions.

And say "Hi" to Usher for me, he will know who I am.

And ask Belinda if she ever got that little tattoo removed. Never mind, that last one is a really bad idea.

[Andy Asaro]

[/B]

Absolutely correct, there is only a upside for everyone.

And Andy, were you invited to the Pegasus by Ritvo and TSG, or not?

If you were go, have a great time, and if you get a chance, express your opinions.

And say "Hi" to Usher for me, he will know who I am.

And ask Belinda if she ever got that little tattoo removed. Never mind, that last one is a really bad idea.

Yes, Ritvo invited me. And I will have a good time there. Thanks.

[jay68802]

Yes, Ritvo invited me. And I will have a good time there. Thanks.

Good, but DO NOT ask that last question.:)

[Andy Asaro]

Twitter poll has opposite results. But, the run up will not changed.

[Andy Asaro]

Twitter poll has opposite results. But, the run up will not changed.

It will be interesting to see if anyone drawing an outside post for the race talks about it.

[Andy Asaro]

https://twitter.com/TVG/status/956207222479990785

[letswastemoney]

West Coast and Sharp Azteca look good. I like one of those two to win.

[dilanesp]

West Coast and Sharp Azteca look good. I like one of those two to win.

I have been looking forward to betting West Coast in this race since the Breeders' Cup. He is still improving.

[Denny]

AA,

Promoting the phony purse at 16M in your last post.

Not surprising.

[Robert Fischer]

Just ask to be his date already..

[cj]

I am curious if a horse runs last and gets 800,000 back and the owner loses money, does the horse still get credited with 800,000 in earnings? I assume they do but really that is one of the silliest things I've seen yet in horse racing if so.

[Thomas Roulston]

They have actually run 14-horse fields at 1 1/16 miles at Gulfstream you know.

You can get away with that when you have the second longest turns in North America - 1,742 feet, behind only Belmont Park's 2,020 feet.

As for cj's question: That happens all the time, when horses get 1% of the purse for finishing (usually) 6th or worse when the cost of nominating, entering and starting the horse is 1.1%, and sometimes a great deal more.

[jay68802]

I am curious if a horse runs last and gets 800,000 back and the owner loses money, does the horse still get credited with 800,000 in earnings? I assume they do but really that is one of the silliest things I've seen yet in horse racing if so.

Last years last place finisher was Eragon and was credited with $250,000 in life time earnings.

[Thomas Roulston]

Where did he get the $800,000 figure from?

[cj]

Where did he get the $800,000 figure from?

Each horse is guaranteed 750,000 plus they get some of the handle.

[cj]

Last years last place finisher was Eragon and was credited with $250,000 in life time earnings.

And that was the guarantee last year. So phony.

[Tom]

Where did he get the $800,000 figure from?

From this guy.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkSx3b2hUfk

[cj]

Two more hand timed races at GP today, that makes SEVEN in the last three racing days.

[dilanesp]

They have actually run 14-horse fields at 1 1/16 miles at Gulfstream you know.

You can get away with that when you have the second longest turns in North America - 1,742 feet, behind only Belmont Park's 2,020 feet.

As for cj's question: That happens all the time, when horses get 1% of the purse for finishing (usually) 6th or worse when the cost of nominating, entering and starting the horse is 1.1%, and sometimes a great deal more.

That is silly. An outside post at 9 furlongs there is a significant handicap.

[cj]

They have actually run 14-horse fields at 1 1/16 miles at Gulfstream you know.

You can get away with that when you have the second longest turns in North America - 1,742 feet, behind only Belmont Park's 2,020 feet.

As for cj's question: That happens all the time, when horses get 1% of the purse for finishing (usually) 6th or worse when the cost of nominating, entering and starting the horse is 1.1%, and sometimes a great deal more.

Those are nominal amounts. We are talking about turning horses into fake millionaires with one race.

[jay68802]

Two more hand timed races at GP today, that makes SEVEN in the last three racing days.

Trackus announced that because of the problems they were having they are changing, and going to use land line technology once they work out a few bugs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAbr2KfLuI4

[Thomas Roulston]

Each horse is guaranteed 750,000 plus they get some of the handle.


You know how I have always felt about this: Instead, it should be $1,150,000 to 4th, $1,050,000 to 5th, $950,000 to 6th, $850,000 to 7th, $750,000 to 8th, $650,000 to 9th, $550,000 to 10th, $450,000 to 11th and $350,000 to 12th. Even with that the guarantee is still $100,000 higher than it was last year - and the fourth and fifth-place owners come out ahead, instead of only the first two coming out ahead and the third-place owner breaking even, as was the case last year.

[Denny]

The PAYgasus is all smoke and mirrors.

A great con job by TSG.

Gulfstream is their biggest shyster operation going.

Like they say, a sucker is born every minute. Plenty to be taken advantage of by people like Frank.

They even pay people off with freebies and perks to take their side and promote what the're doing. It's standard operating procedure.

[cj]

You know how I have always felt about this: Instead, it should be $1,150,000 to 4th, $1,050,000 to 5th, $950,000 to 6th, $850,000 to 7th, $750,000 to 8th, $650,000 to 9th, $550,000 to 10th, $450,000 to 11th and $350,000 to 12th. Even with that the guarantee is still $100,000 higher than it was last year - and the fourth and fifth-place owners come out ahead, instead of only the first two coming out ahead and the third-place owner breaking even, as was the case last year.

This has nothing to do with my point.

[Andy Asaro]

The PAYgasus is all smoke and mirrors.

A great con job by TSG.

Gulfstream is their biggest shyster operation going.

Like they say, a sucker is born every minute. Plenty to be taken advantage of by people like Frank.

They even pay people off with freebies and perks to take their side and promote what the're doing. It's standard operating procedure.

https://twitter.com/racetrackandy/status/956560624753950720

[Thomas Roulston]

This has nothing to do with my point.


Actually it does: Giving a horse $600,000 for finishing last in a 12-horse field puts that horse more than halfway to becoming a fake millionaire. At least have them finish fourth or fifth and make them earn it.

[cj]

Actually it does: Giving a horse $600,000 for finishing last in a 12-horse field puts that horse more than halfway to becoming a fake millionaire. At least have them finish fourth or fifth and make them earn it.

OK, I can buy that, but they couldn't even fill the field charging 250k to enter. They had to "buy" three slots. If you make it harder to get the money back it would have been even worse.

[Thomas Roulston]

I don't think beating half the field, or even less than that, is too much to ask for the owner to get his/her money back.

[Tom]

Winner take all.
Put up or shut up.

[castaway01]

Winner take all.
Put up or shut up.

That idea obviously didn't fly though. The question is, though, would you rather they do this subsidized $16 million purse just so we can have a big race in a quiet time in racing, or not? To me, it's not my money so who cares if they want to throw it around? Frank's wasted money on a lot of sillier things.

[cj]

That idea obviously didn't fly though. The question is, though, would you rather they do this subsidized $16 million purse just so we can have a big race in a quiet time in racing, or not? To me, it's not my money so who cares if they want to throw it around? Frank's wasted money on a lot of sillier things.

The race is certainly better than the Donn, which had been tailing off. I think it is silly how they make up a purse number that simply isn't true, but otherwise, why not? It is a good bridge between the Classic and Dubai and these same horses wouldn't be running for in the old Donn.

[Fager Fan]

The PAYgasus is all smoke and mirrors.

A great con job by TSG.

Gulfstream is their biggest shyster operation going.

Like they say, a sucker is born every minute. Plenty to be taken advantage of by people like Frank.

They even pay people off with freebies and perks to take their side and promote what the're doing. It's standard operating procedure.

I'm sure you won't be either watching or betting tomorrow.

Which is just fine. Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.

[Tom]

That idea obviously didn't fly though. The question is, though, would you rather they do this subsidized $16 million purse just so we can have a big race in a quiet time in racing, or not? To me, it's not my money so who cares if they want to throw it around? Frank's wasted money on a lot of sillier things.

I have very little interest in the race. Races run at GP to me are meaningless. I will watch, for entertainment, but I am betting Tampa Bay and probably Fair Grounds. Not a cent at GP.

[Fager Fan]

That idea obviously didn't fly though. The question is, though, would you rather they do this subsidized $16 million purse just so we can have a big race in a quiet time in racing, or not? To me, it's not my money so who cares if they want to throw it around? Frank's wasted money on a lot of sillier things.

Exactly. Sure are a lot of people fussing even though it's not costing them a dime.

For some reason, they never thought it a problem that a man who takes the wealth of a country as his own puts up a huge pot, but it's all *itch and moan when we have to be more creative in how we fund such a race.

[Denny]

Fager Fan,

Why would I want to waste more than a couple of bucks on Frank's Faulty Folly? The PAYgasus sham.

Maybe I'll bet $10 for fun on Sharp Azteca to see if Navarro is able to say FU to the racing establishment.

I'll wait till Sunday, put a couple hundred in on the mandatory distribution of the Rainbow 6 and scoop up all that dumb-peoples money that's been accumulating for months?

None of it, not even 20-cents of it mine.

The other Stronach gimmick to take money out of circulation daily. Thanks Frank for suckering so many fools into discarding their money every day.

I've already done it twice in the last 5 years, once for 4K and once for 12K. Never have I spent more than $256. Spent $160 for the 12K.

Otherwise, Gulfstream sucks for too many reasons to bother repeating.

Hope you enjoy yourself and contribute to my paydays.

[Fager Fan]

Fager Fan,

Why would I want to waste more than a couple of bucks on Frank's Faulty Folly? The PAYgasus sham.

Maybe I'll bet $10 for fun on Sharp Azteca to see if Navarro is able to say FU to the racing establishment.

I'll wait till Sunday, put a couple hundred in on the mandatory distribution of the Rainbow 6 and scoop up all that dumb-peoples money that's been accumulating for months?

None of it, not even 20-cents of it mine.

The other Stronach gimmick to take money out of circulation daily. Thanks Frank for suckering so many fools into discarding their money every day.

I've already done it twice in the last 5 years, once for 4K and once for 12K. Never have I spent more than $256. Spent $160 for the 12K.

Otherwise, Gulfstream sucks for too many reasons to bother repeating.

Hope you enjoy yourself and contribute to my paydays.

You sound like someone who wants Navarro to say FU. Which tells me all I need about you.

You've got plenty of other tracks to play, so go play 'em. No one cares.

[Tom]

Let me ask a dumb question.....

They have a second finishline for 8.5 furlong races.
Why no start the 9.0 furlong races at that point, and end them there?

Same stretch as the 8,5 and a fair start for the 9.0??

I am assuming these are the two finish lines?

[cj]

Let me ask a dumb question.....

They have a second finishline for 8.5 furlong races.
Why no start the 9.0 furlong races at that point, and end them there?

Same stretch as the 8,5 and a fair start for the 9.0??

I am assuming these are the two finish lines?

Probably silly, but I'd guess Trakus was never set up for that configuration.

[Tom]

Yeah, probably.
I know we used to refuse customer orders for certain things because we didn't have 24 inch calipers! :coffee:

[dilanesp]

Let me ask a dumb question.....

They have a second finishline for 8.5 furlong races.
Why no start the 9.0 furlong races at that point, and end them there?

Same stretch as the 8,5 and a fair start for the 9.0??

I am assuming these are the two finish lines?

I think that's a smart question.

[PaceAdvantage]

The PAYgasus is all smoke and mirrors.

A great con job by TSG.

Gulfstream is their biggest shyster operation going.

Like they say, a sucker is born every minute. Plenty to be taken advantage of by people like Frank.

They even pay people off with freebies and perks to take their side and promote what the're doing. It's standard operating procedure.Jeez man...let it go already...the jealousy is not pretty.