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Fager Fan
01-17-2018, 11:15 AM
Interesting that we're finding out this morning that the two men who made a big stink over Trump's language are the two whose "deal" this was that Trump was refusing. It was supposed to include a larger group of people, and those people said the deal was a no for them as well, that it gave too many protections/legal status for parents of dreamers, and also didn't do nearly enough on border security.

Graham, I try to get over some things you've done in the past, but this was your nail in your coffin for me. No respect from me for playing dirty against Trump. And I gloat at the video of you saying the near identical thing just a couple years ago.

boxcar
01-17-2018, 12:01 PM
Interesting that we're finding out this morning that the two men who made a big stink over Trump's language are the two whose "deal" this was that Trump was refusing. It was supposed to include a larger group of people, and those people said the deal was a no for them as well, that it gave too many protections/legal status for parents of dreamers, and also didn't do nearly enough on border security.

Graham, I try to get over some things you've done in the past, but this was your nail in your coffin for me. No respect from me for playing dirty against Trump. And I gloat at the video of you saying the near identical thing just a couple years ago.

And we should not forget that little Dickie Durbin Duplicity who complained about Trump's insensitivity to black Americans when using the phrase "chain migration" used it himself weeks before! In fact, this phrase is legit, being found in immigration law and official immigration policy documents. :coffee:

RunForTheRoses
01-17-2018, 12:43 PM
They seem like left wing skunks who would say anything.

tucker6
01-17-2018, 02:05 PM
They seem like left wing skunks who would say anything.

I'm from SC, and Graham is a snake.

RunForTheRoses
01-17-2018, 02:23 PM
I'm from SC, and Graham is a snake.


Upon reflection, I think we are insulting skunks and snakes.

boxcar
01-17-2018, 02:35 PM
Upon reflection, I think we are insulting skunks and snakes.

You're right. If nothing else, skunks and snakes are innocent animals. Not so much for the Grahams of this world.

elysiantraveller
01-17-2018, 04:49 PM
Interesting that we're finding out this morning that the two men who made a big stink over Trump's language are the two whose "deal" this was that Trump was refusing. It was supposed to include a larger group of people, and those people said the deal was a no for them as well, that it gave too many protections/legal status for parents of dreamers, and also didn't do nearly enough on border security.

Graham, I try to get over some things you've done in the past, but this was your nail in your coffin for me. No respect from me for playing dirty against Trump. And I gloat at the video of you saying the near identical thing just a couple years ago.

:confused:

Maybe in Trumpland. The rest of us knew it that day.

Ocala Mike
01-17-2018, 05:27 PM
So, wait - you're leaving Flake out of your screed?

Fager Fan
01-17-2018, 09:56 PM
So, wait - you're leaving Flake out of your screed?

Flake came along later today. He'd have my respect if his sermons had any sense of fairness. He will be good riddance.

elysiantraveller
01-17-2018, 10:41 PM
Flake came along later today. He'd have my respect if his sermons had any sense of fairness. He will be good riddance.

It was common knowledge who was at the meeting and what was being discussed.

Glad to know after your multiple comments on it thus far you're just now figuring that small detail out.

Fager Fan
01-17-2018, 11:02 PM
It was common knowledge who was at the meeting and what was being discussed.

Glad to know after your multiple comments on it thus far you're just now figuring that small detail out.

I know a number of people were at the meeting. If it was reported before this morning (or late yesterday) that this was only an agreement/deal between these two, please share the link so I can be as knowledgeable as you.

And it has nothing to do with Flake, so why'd you quote about him, Sir KIA?

elysiantraveller
01-17-2018, 11:29 PM
I know a number of people were at the meeting. If it was reported before this morning (or late yesterday) that this was only an agreement/deal between these two, please share the link so I can be as knowledgeable as you.

And it has nothing to do with Flake, so why'd you quote about him, Sir KIA?

The bill was a bipartisan effort worked up by six senators not just those two. It appropriates 2.7 billion for a wall or whatever other border security was on the table. Established DACA and limited chain migration. My comments on it last week here (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2260193&postcount=56) and here. (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2260246&postcount=58)

As for other articles here (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/11/no-immigration-deal-yet-gop-leaders-say/) is an old one.

Also waaay back when Trump extended DACA instead of killing it like his base wanted I said it a bad idea and gave up his leverage you all disagreed... around the same time he sided with Democrats on the debt ceiling which you all supported and I disagreed with... he's now been outmanuervered.

Republicansí no-win choice: Dreamers or defense (https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/17/republicans-dreamers-defense-shutdown-345438)

4D Chess. :rolleyes:

My post last fall...

Because this allows the Democrats to use shutdown as a threat against major legislation.

He did the same thing with DACA and the wall. It's now going to be used as a bargaining chip by the dems for him to get funding.

I do not understand why he is giving the opposition leverage. This is twice in a week he has improved the opposition's hand.

Fager Fan
01-17-2018, 11:56 PM
I don't know why you are posting old articles or your own old posts. I'm only talking of what happened in the past few days, starting with the meeting, but specifically the senate hearing yesterday.

These two in fact just introduced their bill today, despite knowing it's going nowhere.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.clickondetroit.com/news/politics/graham-durbin-introduce-bipartisan-immigration-bill-despite-setbacks

As for who agreed on this, most reports that I've heard say it was only these two, though in the article one added Flake to it. The only thing absolutely clear is that it wasn't hammered out with everyone who was supposed to be involved.

I hope Graham gets hammered by his constituency for this.

elysiantraveller
01-18-2018, 12:09 AM
...

Washington Times:

Mr. Graham and Mr. Durbin were joined in their negotiations by Republican Sens. Jeff Flake and Cory Gardner, and Democratic Sens. Michael Bennet and Robert Menendez, dubbed a Gang of Six.

GOP leadership is unwilling to put it up for a vote. We shall see as shutdown looms who blinks first. I suspect if introduced it would pass.

The bill would get democrat support but Trump doesn't feel it gives him enough. My posting older stuff was to show you he's maneuvered himself into this position... where he has no leverage.

I said it then and was panned. The Administration and GOP can't risk shut down over this.

Fager Fan
01-18-2018, 12:54 AM
Washington Times:

Mr. Graham and Mr. Durbin were joined in their negotiations by Republican Sens. Jeff Flake and Cory Gardner, and Democratic Sens. Michael Bennet and Robert Menendez, dubbed a Gang of Six.

GOP leadership is unwilling to put it up for a vote. We shall see as shutdown looms who blinks first. I suspect if introduced it would pass.

The bill would get democrat support but Trump doesn't feel it gives him enough. My posting older stuff was to show you he's maneuvered himself into this position... where he has no leverage.

I said it then and was panned. The Administration and GOP can't risk shut down over this.

Like I said, there are conflicting reports. I heard this was basically Graham and Durbin's agreement. I've seen way more than 6 talk of supporting or sponsoring and likewise way more talk of not supporting.

But I guess your point is wanting to pat yourself on the back about something that I don't care about, so you keep patting.

zico20
01-18-2018, 09:55 AM
The bill was a bipartisan effort worked up by six senators not just those two. It appropriates 2.7 billion for a wall or whatever other border security was on the table. Established DACA and limited chain migration. My comments on it last week here (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2260193&postcount=56) and here. (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2260246&postcount=58)

As for other articles here (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/11/no-immigration-deal-yet-gop-leaders-say/) is an old one.

Also waaay back when Trump extended DACA instead of killing it like his base wanted I said it a bad idea and gave up his leverage you all disagreed... around the same time he sided with Democrats on the debt ceiling which you all supported and I disagreed with... he's now been outmanuervered.

Republicansí no-win choice: Dreamers or defense (https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/17/republicans-dreamers-defense-shutdown-345438)

4D Chess. :rolleyes:

My post last fall...

It was NOT a bipartisan bill. Having pro illegal immigration Republicans on it just proves that. Lets start negotiations again, this time with pro American Republicans instead. The original DACA proposal was for the kids, now we have expanded it to include the parents. It is getting worse. Where is the 20 billion for the 700 miles of border wall. Chain migration is still in place. Awful compromise.

elysiantraveller
01-18-2018, 09:59 AM
It was NOT a bipartisan bill. Having pro illegal immigration Republicans on it just proves that. Lets start negotiations again, this time with pro American Republicans instead. The original DACA proposal was for the kids, now we have expanded it to include the parents. It is getting worse. Where is the 20 billion for the 700 miles of border wall. Chain migration is still in place. Awful compromise.

If you feel that way fine... it's probably pretty close to what you're going to get. You can thank Trump for that.

Fager Fan
01-18-2018, 10:10 AM
If you feel that way fine... it's probably pretty close to what you're going to get. You can thank Trump for that.

You can try to blame Trump, but it's no way his fault that this is what others came up with.

elysiantraveller
01-18-2018, 10:29 AM
You can try to blame Trump, but it's no way his fault that this is what others came up with.

By extending DACA and the debt ceiling when he did in September he allowed it to now be used as a chip in regards to government shutdown.

I literally posted that this would happen back then. But now you want to slide in and say... well it's not his fault. But it is. He gave away leverage.

I find it great that I'm never right around here except when I am. Where is the White House's Immigration plan or is it still filed away somewhere with the great Obamacare replacement?

This was bad maneuvering by the White House that GOP leadership warned them against doing and they did it anyway. What s going to end up happening is a immigration deal that will be really watered down from the campaign promises of Trump. His Chief of Staff is now undercutting him.

I'll be happy. Immigration hawks won't be.

zico20
01-18-2018, 11:49 AM
By extending DACA and the debt ceiling when he did in September he allowed it to now be used as a chip in regards to government shutdown.

I literally posted that this would happen back then. But now you want to slide in and say... well it's not his fault. But it is. He gave away leverage.

I find it great that I'm never right around here except when I am. Where is the White House's Immigration plan or is it still filed away somewhere with the great Obamacare replacement?

This was bad maneuvering by the White House that GOP leadership warned them against doing and they did it anyway. What s going to end up happening is a immigration deal that will be really watered down from the campaign promises of Trump. His Chief of Staff is now undercutting him.

I'll be happy. Immigration hawks won't be.

Trump made his immigration plans abundantly clear. A border wall, more border agents, more money for security, an end to chain migration, and end to the visa lottery system, go to a merit based system. In exchange, the Democrats get their DACA deal. What is so hard to figure out. Trump will not back down now, he has too much to lose.

So you will be happy with millions more uneducated, unskilled, non English speaking Americans flooding our country. Great, move to LA and live a life of bliss.

Fager Fan
01-18-2018, 12:19 PM
By extending DACA and the debt ceiling when he did in September he allowed it to now be used as a chip in regards to government shutdown.

I literally posted that this would happen back then. But now you want to slide in and say... well it's not his fault. But it is. He gave away leverage.

I find it great that I'm never right around here except when I am. Where is the White House's Immigration plan or is it still filed away somewhere with the great Obamacare replacement?

This was bad maneuvering by the White House that GOP leadership warned them against doing and they did it anyway. What s going to end up happening is a immigration deal that will be really watered down from the campaign promises of Trump. His Chief of Staff is now undercutting him.

I'll be happy. Immigration hawks won't be.

This thread wasn't about what you're talking about. It's about the two snakes who threw the monkey wrench into this by reporting a word used by Trump in a private meeting. And why they did it. I want to string up Graham by his ears.

But I'll still push back on you how this could've and should've happened as it should've if not for these two, so I'm not blaming Trump.

elysiantraveller
01-18-2018, 12:38 PM
This thread wasn't about what you're talking about. It's about the two snakes who threw the monkey wrench into this by reporting a word used by Trump in a private meeting. And why they did it. I want to string up Graham by his ears.

But I'll still push back on you how this could've and should've happened as it should've if not for these two, so I'm not blaming Trump.

Why is Trumps Chief of Staff now undercutting him on the wall among other things?