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Al Gobbi
01-07-2018, 09:30 PM
Significant changes to the property at Santa Anita Park have been proposed in the past and many went by the wayside, but the tone from Tim Ritvo, The Stronach Group's chief operating officer, Jan. 7 was different.

What Ritvo stressed Sunday was that the drastic changes this time around—ideas to expand the barn area, build a second turf course, expand the main track, and build a brand-new training facility in nearby West Covina, Calif.—are not only desired, but essential.

The first step, Ritvo said, is to build about 1,000 new stalls to the north of the main oval at Santa Anita, an area that currently serves as a parking lot. While the master plan—which would include extending the main track from a mile to 1 1/8 miles, widening the turf course enough to make two separate grass courses, adding an L-shaped training track for jogging on the northern border of the property, and moving the inside training track slightly to accommodate those changes, as well as adding an outdoor mall that would run up to the paddock area—might be far off in the future, but adding the new barn area would also require approvals for various reasons from the City of Arcadia, as well as Los Angeles County. Ritvo wouldn't put a timetable on any of the changes, but said the barn addition could cost an estimated $12-$15 million.
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/225469/tim-ritvo-lays-out-substantial-changes-for-santa-anita?utm_source=BHTW&utm_medium=social

iamt
01-07-2018, 10:28 PM
Gulfstream Park Really West

jocko699
01-07-2018, 10:34 PM
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/225469/tim-ritvo-lays-out-substantial-changes-for-santa-anita?utm_source=BHTW&utm_medium=social

I am okay for this. I would also love if Stronach could assist in pushing for "real" harness racing again in SoCal. Not the crap up at CalExpo but the stuff that used to race at HP.

oughtoh
01-08-2018, 12:35 AM
That use to be fun going to SA for the day and then stop at HP on the way home. Those were the good old days.

VigorsTheGrey
01-08-2018, 12:41 AM
One thing I think is greatly needed is somewhere where both multiple screens AND seats and tables (free and reasonably quiet) are linked for simulcast players...I looked high and low, in Clubhouse and General areas for this with no luck, one can only stand for so long...but most seats with individual monitors are in restaurants or pay extra areas...

The sport bar upstairs, take a right at the top of the escalators, is really cool but is mostly part of some posh event on big days...definitely the place to be though anytime else...wish there were more cozy niches such as the Sports Bar for all the Simo players...

jay68802
01-08-2018, 12:49 AM
I read that they are also going to install a state of the art timing system that will give times for each and every horse in the race from when the gate opens. "This will ensure that the customers that support this game, have accurate information." Rivito also stated that "The integrity of this sport will be held to the highest possible standards, drugs will not be tolerated."

God, I crack myself up once in a while.

jay68802
01-08-2018, 07:48 AM
When asked to explain the timing system, Rivito said," We have hired two of the best from the local homeless shelter and supplied them with state of the art stopwatches", then added " Larry and Moe will do a great job." He added later " As long as there is not a crowd of people, or a large animal running near them. they will do a great job. If they see a large running animal, they curl up in a cardboard box, and it is hard to pry them out of there." Larry and Moe will also be in charge of drug testing. "They have tested a large amount of drugs in their lives" Rivito explained.

Tom
01-08-2018, 10:29 AM
Rivito also stated that "The integrity of this sport will be held to the highest possible standards, drugs will not be tolerated."

Ritvo then clicked his heels together three times and said, "There's no place like the Race Place, There's no place like the Race Place."

And they all lived happily ever after.

:coffee:

linrom1
01-08-2018, 11:51 AM
In business when a higher up comes-in and reads the riot act, he's out!

Andy Asaro
01-08-2018, 07:17 PM
Doing well so far.

This is on races run at Santa Anita and is not all sources. Last year at this time there was an extra Thursday

2016-2017 = Daily average of $9,128,700

2017-2018 = $10,580,331

Fager Fan
01-09-2018, 10:18 AM
While the only renovations CD does is to keep adding more luxury suites to bring in the big $ for their shareholders on 2 days of the year.

classhandicapper
01-09-2018, 11:44 AM
It sounds like CA is going to start stressing turf racing a little more. This is the second thing I read this week that hinted at expanded turf racing.

Redboard
01-09-2018, 11:47 AM
Isn't it a lot of money to water the turf out there since it never rains in Southern CA?

This maybe a stupid question, but it's an honest one.

chiguy
01-09-2018, 05:29 PM
Looks like $1.60 per HCF (748 gallons). Not terrible and not free. SA gets some of the better months in terms of rain here. Dirt track require a bit of water as well. Would be curious if it actually requires more?

dilanesp
01-09-2018, 06:12 PM
It sounds like CA is going to start stressing turf racing a little more. This is the second thing I read this week that hinted at expanded turf racing.

It's kind of weird that we don't. We have great weather, which means that we probably have more firm turf days than any of the other major racing circuits. If we had something like the Gulfstream/Aqueduct/Arlington Park turf setup, we could run LOTS more grass races.

Tom
01-09-2018, 06:29 PM
Yes, we really need a bunch more ~about~ 7.5 furlong races. :bang:

Fager Fan
01-09-2018, 07:23 PM
Yes, we really need a bunch more ~about~ 7.5 furlong races. :bang:

Heaven knows that these dastardly races are single-handedly ruining the game!

ultracapper
01-10-2018, 01:29 AM
Good news all around. Hopefully they'll be able to implement positive changes and show a solid return for their investment. Of course they may lose a couple $4 bettors that have to actually stand and watch a race without the aid of a dedicated 58 inch TV screen that shows 20 angles of their horse from gate to wire, all while weighing the horse after each stride. Damn Stronach Group, always depriving us that crucial information that's the difference between a positive a negative ROI.

I'm becoming a fan of Ritvo, even though I know it is him, and those around him, that have made it impossible for me to win at this game by gouging me of millionths of pennies that I could have. The technology is there to get that money to me that is rightfully mine.

JustRalph
01-10-2018, 01:32 AM
I see nothing that would make 4-500 more horses show up.

That should be priority 1

VigorsTheGrey
01-10-2018, 01:37 AM
Good news all around. Hopefully they'll be able to implement positive changes and show a solid return for their investment. Of course they may lose a couple $4 bettors that have to actually stand and watch a race without the aid of a dedicated 58 inch TV screen that shows 20 angles of their horse from gate to wire, all while weighing the horse after each stride. Damn Stronach Group, always depriving us that crucial information that's the difference between a positive a negative ROI.

I'm becoming a fan of Ritvo, even though I know it is him, and those around him, that have made it impossible for me to win at this game by gouging me of millionths of pennies that I could have. The technology is there to get that money to me that is rightfully mine.

Hey, what can I say, I got spoiled in the Sports Bar on the Clubhouse Terrace (Had the Gods not made sweet honey, the fig would fare far sweeter...)

ultracapper
01-10-2018, 01:59 AM
Hey, what can I say, I got spoiled in the Sports Bar on the Clubhouse Terrace (Had the Gods not made sweet honey, the fig would fare far sweeter...)

Sorry. I'm in one of those moods. Didn't mean to be such an ass.

Hey, these guys are actually investing in the game, not always in the best way, but usually better than the majority of track operators. Since taking SA under his wing, Ritvo, in my opinion anyways, has been a positive influence on the SoCal racing landscape. He's working with arguable the most important track west of the Mississippi. Santa Anita is looking at a promising next 6 months. The product has been as good as any the past year or so, and horse racing needs a strong Santa Anita.

ultracapper
01-10-2018, 02:12 AM
What's really needed this year is a solid Derby field, and a big SA Hcp day handle-wise. Hopefully, those will be a couple good days. I'm guessing field average is doing pretty well to this point, and looks pretty good through the first couple books. Hopefully they have a strong spring. They're carrying the first 6 months of racing west of the Mississippi almost entirely on their shoulders.

VigorsTheGrey
01-10-2018, 02:46 AM
Agree and hopefully the weather will be great this Spring...

Redboard
01-10-2018, 10:34 AM
What's really needed this year is a solid Derby field, and a big SA Hcp day handle-wise. Hopefully, those will be a couple good days. ......

I agree, but reducing the purse of the S.A. cap is not the way to increase handle. From $1M in 2016, $750k last year, to $600k this year.

Especially for a place that has hosted the Breeders Cup so often recently.

The big days are what brings in new fans. Minimizing them (for the benefit if the local horsemen) is a death spiral. How did that work out for Suffolk Downs?

MonmouthParkJoe
01-10-2018, 02:12 PM
I agree, but reducing the purse of the S.A. cap is not the way to increase handle. From $1M in 2016, $750k last year, to $600k this year.

Especially for a place that has hosted the Breeders Cup so often recently.

The big days are what brings in new fans. Minimizing them (for the benefit if the local horsemen) is a death spiral. How did that work out for Suffolk Downs?

Breeders Cup is always fun, but it isn't always such a great deal for the race track.

I don't think a big day is minimized by lowering the purse a bit, and I also don't think new fans even know what a purse is.

cj
01-10-2018, 02:23 PM
Breeders Cup is always fun, but it isn't always such a great deal for the race track.

I don't think a big day is minimized by lowering the purse a bit, and I also don't think new fans even know what a purse is.

The Big Cap and the SA Derby are probably going to get the same exact fields whether the purse is 2 million or 600k. The Big Cap is a shell of what it was and the Derby is the Derby. Can't think of many ship ins over the years. Might cause a ship out or two though.

dilanesp
01-10-2018, 03:08 PM
What's really needed this year is a solid Derby field, and a big SA Hcp day handle-wise. Hopefully, those will be a couple good days. I'm guessing field average is doing pretty well to this point, and looks pretty good through the first couple books. Hopefully they have a strong spring. They're carrying the first 6 months of racing west of the Mississippi almost entirely on their shoulders.

The Santa Anita Handicap is a dead letter.

Wish that weren't so, but it is.

The Santa Anita Derby and Opening Day are Santa Anita's two remaining marquee race days.

dilanesp
01-10-2018, 03:12 PM
Breeders Cup is always fun, but it isn't always such a great deal for the race track.

The Breeders' Cup is a great deal for Santa Anita. It isn't that the track makes a ton of money on the presentation itself (the BC keeps most of the revenue), but because Santa Anita is a successful track with logical prep races it can capture a fair amount of revenue when it hosts it. And because the BC crowds are big, SA certainly doesn't lose any money on the thing like a lot of the other host tracks do.

The reality is, Santa Anita is by far the most logical racetrack for the BC. (The second most logical track is Churchill.) There's a lot of sentiment in the horse racing community for holding it at other places (which the BC officials sometimes cater to), but rationally, they should hold it here every year or just alternate it between here and Louisville.

Al Gobbi
01-10-2018, 07:29 PM
The Big Cap and the SA Derby are probably going to get the same exact fields whether the purse is 2 million or 600k. The Big Cap is a shell of what it was and the Derby is the Derby. Can't think of many ship ins over the years. Might cause a ship out or two though.

Oaklawn Handicap is a month later and has a $750k purse.

Spalding No!
01-10-2018, 11:28 PM
The Big Cap and the SA Derby are probably going to get the same exact fields whether the purse is 2 million or 600k. The Big Cap is a shell of what it was and the Derby is the Derby. Can't think of many ship ins over the years. Might cause a ship out or two though.
The Big Cap averages about 1 out-of-towner per year. In the 2000s alone there has been Saint Liam, Go Between, Einstein, Ron The Greek, Called To Serve, Will Take Charge, Mucho Macho Man, Effinex, and Shaman Ghost.

Decades ago there was Vanlandingham, Broad Brush, Formal Gold, and Spectacular Bid.

cj
01-11-2018, 12:04 AM
The Big Cap averages about 1 out-of-towner per year. In the 2000s alone there has been Saint Liam, Go Between, Einstein, Ron The Greek, Called To Serve, Will Take Charge, Mucho Macho Man, Effinex, and Shaman Ghost.

Decades ago there was Vanlandingham, Broad Brush, Formal Gold, and Spectacular Bid.

It is a little more than I remembered, but I don't count the Stronach horses. :)

dilanesp
01-11-2018, 02:05 PM
The Big Cap averages about 1 out-of-towner per year. In the 2000s alone there has been Saint Liam, Go Between, Einstein, Ron The Greek, Called To Serve, Will Take Charge, Mucho Macho Man, Effinex, and Shaman Ghost.

Decades ago there was Vanlandingham, Broad Brush, Formal Gold, and Spectacular Bid.

I think that's too reductive. The Big Cap used to draw big fields (most years-1988 was an exception) full of good horses.

Look at the Inagural- it drew Equipoise amd Twenty Grand. Rosemont versus Seabiscuit. Noor, Citation, Two Lea, and Ponder. Ack Ack against Cougar. John Henry against Perrault. Ferdinand, Alysheba, and Super Diamond. Event of the Year, Free House, and Silver Charm.

That is what Dubai has killed. Yes, a second tier eastern horse may still ship, but it isn't the same. The last Game on Dude one will go down as the last good Santa Anita Handicap.

Thomas Roulston
01-15-2018, 11:45 AM
Why stop at 1 1/8 miles? Make it 1 1/4 miles and turn it into Colonial Downs West!

And I have just perfected a new design for a 1 1/4-mile dirt track - with two turf courses that share a common stretch!

cj
01-15-2018, 11:47 AM
Why stop at 1 1/8 miles? Make it 1 1/4 miles and turn it into Colonial Downs West!

And I have just perfected a new design for a 1 1/4-mile dirt track - with two turf courses that share a common stretch!

Sharing a stretch would kill the biggest benefit of having two turf courses, wear and tear.

Thomas Roulston
01-15-2018, 01:37 PM
But it would be necessary to fit the inner turf course inside the outer turf course, and also to fit in a chute at the beginning of the backstretch where 1 1/2-mile turf races will be run.

I hope to post a schematic of it here - but for now, here are the dimensions:

Main Track: 1 1/4 miles. Distance from last turn to finish, 1,320 feet. Distance from finish line to first turn: 330 feet. 4-furlong/1 3/4-mile, 1/16th mile long chutelet on far turn (see Canterbury Park). Backstretch chute out to 1 1/16 miles. Wilson-style chute for 1 1/8 miles (see Ellis Park). Alternate finish line for 1 3/16 miles and certain other distances. Width of track: 120 feet (all sections), making fields of up to 20 horses possible at many distances.

Turf Course(s): Outer Turf Course: 1 1/8 miles. Distance from last turn to finish: 1,320 feet. Distance from finish line to first turn: 330 feet. Minimal gap between inner rail of Main Track and outer rail of Outer Turf Course, allowing for wider turf course (see Woodbine). Inner Turf Course: Six and one-half furlongs. Shares stretch with Outer Turf Course. Distance from last turn to finish: 990 feet. Distance from finish line to first turn: 200 feet. Backstretch chute for 1 1/2-mile turf races (requires rail be set at least 10 feet out - see 1 1/8 miles on turf at Bay Meadows, which required a 25-foot rail setting).

cj
01-15-2018, 01:46 PM
But it would be necessary to fit the inner turf course inside the outer turf course, and also to fit in a chute at the beginning of the backstretch where 1 1/2-mile turf races will be run.

I hope to post a schematic of it here - but for now, here are the dimensions:

Main Track: 1 1/4 miles. Distance from last turn to finish, 1,320 feet. Distance from finish line to first turn: 330 feet. 4-furlong/1 3/4-mile, 1/16th mile long chutelet on far turn (see Canterbury Park). Backstretch chute out to 1 1/16 miles. Wilson-style chute for 1 1/8 miles (see Ellis Park). Alternate finish line for 1 3/16 miles and certain other distances. Width of track: 120 feet (all sections), making fields of up to 20 horses possible at many distances.

Turf Course(s): Outer Turf Course: 1 1/8 miles. Distance from last turn to finish: 1,320 feet. Distance from finish line to first turn: 330 feet. Minimal gap between inner rail of Main Track and outer rail of Outer Turf Course, allowing for wider turf course (see Woodbine). Inner Turf Course: Six and one-half furlongs. Shares stretch with Outer Turf Course. Distance from last turn to finish: 990 feet. Distance from finish line to first turn: 200 feet. Backstretch chute for 1 1/2-mile turf races (requires rail be set at least 10 feet out - see 1 1/8 miles on turf at Bay Meadows, which required a 25-foot rail setting).

Draw it up and send it to Ritvo.

dilanesp
01-15-2018, 01:56 PM
But it would be necessary to fit the inner turf course inside the outer turf course, and also to fit in a chute at the beginning of the backstretch where 1 1/2-mile turf races will be run.

I hope to post a schematic of it here - but for now, here are the dimensions:

Main Track: 1 1/4 miles. Distance from last turn to finish, 1,320 feet. Distance from finish line to first turn: 330 feet. 4-furlong/1 3/4-mile, 1/16th mile long chutelet on far turn (see Canterbury Park). Backstretch chute out to 1 1/16 miles. Wilson-style chute for 1 1/8 miles (see Ellis Park). Alternate finish line for 1 3/16 miles and certain other distances. Width of track: 120 feet (all sections), making fields of up to 20 horses possible at many distances.

Turf Course(s): Outer Turf Course: 1 1/8 miles. Distance from last turn to finish: 1,320 feet. Distance from finish line to first turn: 330 feet. Minimal gap between inner rail of Main Track and outer rail of Outer Turf Course, allowing for wider turf course (see Woodbine). Inner Turf Course: Six and one-half furlongs. Shares stretch with Outer Turf Course. Distance from last turn to finish: 990 feet. Distance from finish line to first turn: 200 feet. Backstretch chute for 1 1/2-mile turf races (requires rail be set at least 10 feet out - see 1 1/8 miles on turf at Bay Meadows, which required a 25-foot rail setting).

You would need to do a ton of grading on that hill (which is surely susceptible to earthquakes and landslides) to do that.

Andy Asaro
01-15-2018, 07:00 PM
Not all that easy to increase dimensions and maintain the signature race down the hill but I'm sure it can be done.

VigorsTheGrey
01-15-2018, 11:24 PM
California is far from everywhere else. Why not develop the Cal Bred stock to be Turf Sprinters and run a whole lot more 5f, 5.5f, 6f and 6.5 and 7f races on the main turf oval AND the hillside turf course as well instead of JUST the About 6.5 Hillside Run...

California is already well know for dirt speed horses...so turf sprints might just be what the Dr. ordered...Hollywood Park used to run a lot of 5.0 turf sprints before they closed...then they need to build another new turf and dirt track in the Irvine Metropolitan area, so they can rotate between Santa Anita, Irvine, and Delmar and stop running T-breds at Los Alamitos.

Problem is the land in Irvine is worth so much money...

Thomas Roulston
01-16-2018, 11:38 AM
Ritvo?

And I've just about finished it. All I need to do is put the necessary labels on it ("1 1/16 Mile Chute," etc.) and to take a pic of it and upload it to my computer.

Plus it can be used anywhere a track has the necessary space to expand their course - not just Santa Anita.

Thanx for all your help on this BTW.

Fager Fan
01-16-2018, 01:34 PM
Ritvo?

And I've just about finished it. All I need to do is put the necessary labels on it ("1 1/16 Mile Chute," etc.) and to take a pic of it and upload it to my computer.

Plus it can be used anywhere a track has the necessary space to expand their course - not just Santa Anita.

Thanx for all your help on this BTW.

If you've come up with the perfect track configuration, then send it to all. Then they'll have it at hand to look at when the time comes. If the time comes. At $5m for each time they had to replace the dirt with synth, or the synth with dirt, it's not a cheap thing to do.

upthecreek
01-23-2018, 02:53 PM
https://twitter.com/BloodHorse/status/950175569953673221

Thomas Roulston
01-25-2018, 12:19 PM
Of course my idea of "perfect" is where every distance can be run, both on dirt and turf - a concept that not all of you may share.

But without further adieu, here's the finished product:

dilanesp
01-25-2018, 02:08 PM
Ritvo?

And I've just about finished it. All I need to do is put the necessary labels on it ("1 1/16 Mile Chute," etc.) and to take a pic of it and upload it to my computer.

Plus it can be used anywhere a track has the necessary space to expand their course - not just Santa Anita.

Thanx for all your help on this BTW.

Again, bear in mind there is a hill that meets up with the backstretch at the 1/2 mile pole.

It isn't just "space", it is grading (and slides and earthquakes).

Afleet
01-25-2018, 09:41 PM
Of course my idea of "perfect" is where every distance can be run, both on dirt and turf - a concept that not all of you may share.

But without further adieu, here's the finished product:

whats the chute on the clubhouse turn for? Looks like ELP dirt mile layout

re-read your post 1 1/8 chute-interesting; but like the others said that hill comes into play

theiman
01-26-2018, 11:03 PM
Suppose SA adds a second turf course but it is only a straight chute through the back parking lot parallel to the dirt track. It enters the downhill course at same spot as where the 1 1/2 turf races start(Which I believe is 5f from the finish). You would need to add a 3 furlong straight course(it could have a slight bend if room is needed). If you could add 3.5F even better. Don't forget the turf turn is bigger than the dirt course turn as it is outside of it.

By doing this you can add one turn mile races(maybe 1 1/16th races), and sprints at 7F, 6.5F and 6F. You can still run the current 6.5F downhill races.

When you run on this course you cross the dirt and finish on the outer part of the turf course. When you run on the current turf course, at 6.5(downhill) a mile or 9F, you finish on the inner part of the course. You alternate racing at 2 week intervals on either course to preserve the courses from excessive wear, . You would only have to widen the stretch turf course to assure ample stretch room. You would also have to strengthen the grass growing in the stretch. Both of the current turf course turns and backstretch would only be run on when running on the current course.

I am not good with diagrams or posting them, but perhaps Thomas Roulston could do one with my idea.

Wouldnt mind hearing feedback or ideas about this.