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Diagoras
01-05-2018, 03:23 PM
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/hotread180105/beginning-end-new-england-patriots-robert-kraft-tom-brady-bill-belichick-internal-power-struggle

Inner Dirt
01-05-2018, 03:31 PM
I don't understand why this is news, both the coach and quarterback who may be the best ever are at retirement age.

lamboguy
01-05-2018, 03:46 PM
the author of this article is known for his ability to put out fake news. good luck with this one if you are betting your money on the Steelers when they come to New England with a far superior team other than the quarterback and coach.

MutuelClerk
01-05-2018, 04:21 PM
Warms my heart on a day it's -3 outside. Screw the cheating Pats.

barahona44
01-05-2018, 07:59 PM
I'm pretty sure some of these problems between Brady & Bellichik have been blown out of proportion.Bellichik doesn't seem the type to let anybody get close to him, the better to cut ties when the time comes.I do believe though that Bellichik was willing to let Brady get traded and have Garropolo take over as QB and that Kraft, who literally became a billionaire due to Brady,vetoed that idea. A second round draft choice was the NFL equivalent of a six-pack and a bag of Fritos given Garrapolo's potential, which now seems to be a sure bet, given his 5-0 record with San Francisco this year.To me that deal was a big fat eff-you to Kraft from Bellichik.

Clocker
01-06-2018, 01:49 PM
Hot rumor from the NY Daily News: Belichick to coach the Giants?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/bill-belichick-sees-opening-coach-giants-source-article-1.3739643

burnsy
01-06-2018, 02:16 PM
I don't understand why this is news, both the coach and quarterback who may be the best ever are at retirement age.

Exactly, how much longer can they last? That's the issue. The coach is Darth Vader, he's thinking years in advance, that's the friction. Its not "fake news" , anyone with half a brain knows he wanted Garoppolo in his back pocket. Basically now, once Brady is done, so are the Pats. Of course Belichick is not happy. They had to go out and get a "has been" back up by his standards. You know damn well these decisions were not his. Like this story is made up? :lol: I'm so surprised nothing was said weeks ago. But now, people see how good this kid is.

Basically, the team is not as good anyway. He knows it, only fans and TV fools can't see it. I even think he had visions of Garappolo starting soon and Kraft won't go for that. One guy wants to keep winning, the other guy is selling tickets. This is why Parcells bailed years ago, its surprising it all lasted this long. They have the AFC by the balls because the teams are not that good, but the end is definitely near. Belichick is almost always the smartest guy in the room, that's why he's won so much. Football people are often not as bright as he is.............that's his secret to his success. Time and "athlete reality" are a M'Fer, he is a smart ass realist, not a dreamer.

jocko699
01-07-2018, 04:12 PM
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/hotread180105/beginning-end-new-england-patriots-robert-kraft-tom-brady-bill-belichick-internal-power-struggle

This is a news story from a well known fake news agency. I believe madam Wolff wrote this.

All this does is bring the Patriots together as a team and insure they get to the SB.

lamboguy
01-07-2018, 04:30 PM
This is a news story from a well known fake news agency. I believe madam Wolff wrote this.

All this does is bring the Patriots together as a team and insure they get to the SB.
talent wise, The Steelers are way better than the Pats, but they can never beat them

jocko699
01-07-2018, 04:55 PM
talent wise, The Steelers are way better than the Pats, but they can never beat them

They just may be a better team and at this time of year anything can happen.

barahona44
01-07-2018, 06:46 PM
Patriots' coordinators Matt Patricia and Josh McDaniels are on their way out of town, so you have to wonder about how that will affect what they do. I'm not seeing the Patriots winning the Super Bowl this year, the NFC is a lot better and the team that gets there will be more battle tested than whoever the AFC winner is.

jocko699
01-07-2018, 09:58 PM
Patriots' coordinators Matt Patricia and Josh McDaniels are on their way out of town, so you have to wonder about how that will affect what they do. I'm not seeing the Patriots winning the Super Bowl this year, the NFC is a lot better and the team that gets there will be more battle tested than whoever the AFC winner is.

I do not agree with the NFC being more powerful but what do I know.

horses4courses
01-07-2018, 10:21 PM
I do not agree with the NFC being more powerful but what do I know.

I believe you're right. :ThmbUp:

AFC is a slight favorite to lift Super Bowl trophy - very slight.
Eagles with a healthy Carson Wentz might have changed that.
Odds are based on the current situation, though.

jocko699
01-07-2018, 10:39 PM
I believe you're right. :ThmbUp:

AFC is a slight favorite to lift Super Bowl trophy - very slight.
Eagles with a healthy Carson Wentz might have changed that.
Odds are based on the current situation, though.

They still have to beat Atlanta and they seem to be getting good at the right time. We will see in Philly this weekend.

barahona44
01-07-2018, 11:45 PM
I do not agree with the NFC being more powerful but what do I know.
Powerful is a strong word, better is a better word.

Seeding comparisons (pre playoffs , my opinion)
.
Number 6 seeds. Atlanta vs. Buffalo. Advantage ATL
Number 5 seeds. Carolina vs.Tennessee Advantage CAR
Number 4 seeds. New Orleans vs. Kansas City. Advantage N.O.
Number 3 seeds. Los Angeles vs. Jacksonville. A draw
Number 2 seeds Minnesota vs. Pittsburgh Advantage PIT (slight, would be stronger if
Antonio Brown status were solid)
Number 1 seeds. Philadelphia vs. New England Advantage NE ..

I still think the NFC rep wins the SB, especially the Vikings (they'd be the home team) or Falcons, who I think are starting to click at the right time.New Orleans today reminded me of last year's Saints, no defense or a running game.Drew Brees is still a top QB, but if he has to be a one man band , they won't win the big game. If the balance on both sides of the ball they exhibited most of the season returns they could be dangerous.The Eagles with Wentz would struggle; I don't see them as a SB worthy team, without him, they will take an early exit.

jocko699
01-07-2018, 11:50 PM
They still have to beat Atlanta and they seem to be getting good at the right time. We will see in Philly this weekend.

I reread this and I was trying to say Atlanta seems to be getting good right now.

Going to the SB and winning is very difficult for a team full of players that have never been there. That is why NE and ATL if they make it that far have to be a heavy favorite against any teams that haven't.

Valuist
01-08-2018, 03:20 PM
I reread this and I was trying to say Atlanta seems to be getting good right now.

Going to the SB and winning is very difficult for a team full of players that have never been there. That is why NE and ATL if they make it that far have to be a heavy favorite against any teams that haven't.

I wasn't as impressed by Atlanta. The Rams' special teams, normally a strong point, completely self destructed and they basically handed that game to Atlanta. Then the long trip back east, followed by another trip north to Philly. The number opened at Atlanta -3 and lasted for about 15 minutes as they were hit by a flurry of Eagle money.

thaskalos
01-09-2018, 04:56 AM
I wasn't as impressed by Atlanta. The Rams' special teams, normally a strong point, completely self destructed and they basically handed that game to Atlanta. Then the long trip back east, followed by another trip north to Philly. The number opened at Atlanta -3 and lasted for about 15 minutes as they were hit by a flurry of Eagle money.

More a drizzle than a flurry...IMO. You can still get the Eagles+3 if you lay the extra juice.

reckless
01-10-2018, 04:52 PM
Just a silly idea I'll throw out there since I'm not playing any races; I'm fighting an annoying cold, and I still have a big sheet of ice along my driveway despite sunny and warmer days lately.

Could this play out, even remotely ...

Patriots lose, sooner rather than later ... everyone is pissed.

Bill Belichick either quits or is fired ...

The New York Giants sign Belichick to be their head coach ...

Nick Saban, fresh off another National Championship year, quits Alabama to be the Head Coach of the New England Patriots!

jocko699
01-10-2018, 05:04 PM
Nick Saban, fresh off another National Championship year, quits Alabama to be the Head Coach of the New England Patriots!

I can't see Bill B taking a position with the Giants ever!!!!!

Nick will coach at UA through at least one more NC. When he does retire for good it will be from Alabama, he will never coach elsewhere. Swinney or Kirby will be the only coaches looked at to replace him.

reckless
01-10-2018, 05:44 PM
I can't see Bill B taking a position with the Giants ever!!!!!

Nick will coach at UA through at least one more NC. When he does retire for good it will be from Alabama, he will never coach elsewhere. Swinney or Kirby will be the only coaches looked at to replace him.

jocko, if I had a bet, I'd wager on Dabo Swinney getting the nod.

I'd like to think Smart considers himself a Georgia guy more so than an Alabama guy -- just an opinion with no sound reasoning behind it except he was born there and his dad was a Georgia h.s. coach. I also think the yearly battles between Georgia-Auburn-Alabama in the next 2-3 years potentially may be the greatest games we'll ever see on the college level.

Either choice would be great ones, obviously.

Personally I'd like to see Lane Kiffin get the job -- which would never happen as long as Nick Saban has a say.

Kiffen has the best offensive mind than any coach in college ball. I predict this upcoming season will be Kiffin's last at FIU, only because a major --major-- school will hire him away.

Sorry that I digressed.

reckless
01-10-2018, 05:51 PM
I can't see Bill B taking a position with the Giants ever!!!!!

Nick will coach at UA through at least one more NC. When he does retire for good it will be from Alabama, he will never coach elsewhere. Swinney or Kirby will be the only coaches looked at to replace him.

Yes, you're probably right about Nick never leaving Alabama.

BUT... competitive and successful people often want to straighten out and correcting any previous 'failure' if given the chance. I think Nick badly wants to succeed as an NFL coach which would erase the Miami Dolphins dark spot on his resume.

What better and possibly easier place to do such a thing then at New England? Plus, Saban is just like his early mentor Bill B. and Kraft must know this too -- if the situation should arise.

jocko699
01-10-2018, 06:43 PM
Kiffen has the best offensive mind than any coach in college ball. I predict this upcoming season will be Kiffin's last at FIU, only because a major --major-- school will hire him away.



Reckless,

Good response but Kiffin will NEVER be head coach at Alabama. The Alumni cannot stand him and they really drive who gets hired.

Maybe Kiffin can replace Harbaugh at Michigan. I think Jimmy is on his last lifeline up there.

reckless
01-10-2018, 06:56 PM
Reckless,

Good response but Kiffin will NEVER be head coach at Alabama. The Alumni cannot stand him and they really drive who gets hired.

Maybe Kiffin can replace Harbaugh at Michigan. I think Jimmy is on his last lifeline up there.

Yes I do know kiffin will never coach alabama. I think it was alleged he dated Saban's daughter.

I agree with you about harbaugh at michigan. They can't bring back Bo but I believe the great Lloyd Carr is still alive. :lol:

ElKabong
01-14-2018, 03:01 PM
Patriots are still kicking.

I'll tell ya who's dead. The Stihlers, that's who. Jacksonville was up 21-0 when I got home from church. Tv was on cbs when I turned it on (going to watch the wings - hawks game)

End of the stihler era... Again

rastajenk
01-14-2018, 08:48 PM
End of the stihler era... AgainAs a Bengal fan...observer...realist, or something, I've heard that several times already this century.

burnsy
01-15-2018, 09:24 AM
Patriots are still kicking.

I'll tell ya who's dead. The Stihlers, that's who. Jacksonville was up 21-0 when I got home from church. Tv was on cbs when I turned it on (going to watch the wings - hawks game)

End of the stihler era... Again


The Steelers were smoke and mirrors all season long. They had an easy schedule, with teams that were not that good or hurt. The only two teams left in the AFC, the Jags and Pats, are probably the only two that had a chance at the Super Bowl over the NFC team that gets in......even that may be a slight chance where they will need breaks or turn overs to win the Super Bowl. Look at the games so far, the AFC has been a joke all year, even before the playoffs. These teams don't play defense, that's how Jacksonville made it and even they had to hang on for dear life yesterday giving up 42 points!


The Steelers, KC, Buffalo or Tenn. wouldn't of even made it in the NFC. They are not good teams. People are bitching about the Steelers coaching........lol.......you just gave up 45 to the Jacksonville Jaguars.........Moses could be the coach and you wouldn't deserve to win that game at home........you stink!

lamboguy
01-15-2018, 09:43 AM
Jaguars have a real good starting defense. those 11 guys they put on the field are the best in the league. the shortcoming they have is their quarterback. the coaching is real good too.

the linemakers and everyone else have the Patriots underrated right now because talent wise they aren't as good as the teams that are still left. since the Vikings are the favorite in Philadelphia, the superbowl will be a home game for them and the Pats could come into their home field and be a very short favorite. in this particular instance, i am going to say that the place they play will make a difference. the main problem that the Pats have is that there won't be as many people traveling to this game and the tickets will be scooped up by locals who are die hard Vikings fans. i would love to see the Vikings finally win a Super Bowl, they have a great franchise and tremendous fans.` but my money will not be on them.

Robert Fischer
01-15-2018, 10:58 AM
The Steelers were smoke and mirrors all season long. They had an easy schedule, with teams that were not that good or hurt. The only two teams left in the AFC, the Jags and Pats, are probably the only two that had a chance at the Super Bowl over the NFC team that gets in......even that may be a slight chance where they will need breaks or turn overs to win the Super Bowl. Look at the games so far, the AFC has been a joke all year, even before the playoffs. These teams don't play defense, that's how Jacksonville made it and even they had to hang on for dear life yesterday giving up 42 points!


The Steelers, KC, Buffalo or Tenn. wouldn't of even made it in the NFC. They are not good teams. People are bitching about the Steelers coaching........lol.......you just gave up 45 to the Jacksonville Jaguars.........Moses could be the coach and you wouldn't deserve to win that game at home........you stink!


Steelers are showing several red flags.

They have the highest paid running back. = I could go to college or jail and get a backfield. No, I wouldn't find a LeVeon Bell, but we'd have an NFL backfield. Or more traditionally, look among the league for proven cheap talent (SEE PATRIOTS). Running back has such a large pool of competent players, it is horrible strategy to overpay.

Their undersized first round draft pick linebacker didn't work out.

Ben is 35. (Unlike Brady,) he has mileage on those years.

The Steelers remain a huge brand in the NFL ad-revenue game. Don't expect the Bengals, Browns, or Ravens to get any help from the league. However, the Steelers themselves are a top-heavy paper tiger.

Jeff P
01-15-2018, 12:28 PM
Imo, lack of preparation evident in Steelers loss yesterday.

Specifically - the botched onside kick.

When you get to this point in the season and you attempt an onside kick, even if your team doesn't recover the ball:

You should at least LOOK like you know how to execute an onside kick.

After watching yesterday's game, the thought occurred to me that the last time the Steelers practiced an onside kick might have been back in the pre-season.

That was just one play.

But there's only one way you get to look that comically bad:

Lack of preparation.



-jp

.

Boris
01-15-2018, 01:33 PM
So I spent $300 on futures a few weeks ago, and I'm still alive to the Jags to win the AFC at 8-1 for $80. I thought it would give me a "free roll" to play a money line bet on the Pats in the AFC game. However, I didn't see this money line at Pats -400 to -500.

I don't see an effective way to use this as a hedge with the Pats in the AFC game. Thoughts? I'm tempted to put $100 on the Jags to win the Superbowl at 8-1 and just root for them.

Valuist
01-15-2018, 02:45 PM
So I spent $300 on futures a few weeks ago, and I'm still alive to the Jags to win the AFC at 8-1 for $80. I thought it would give me a "free roll" to play a money line bet on the Pats in the AFC game. However, I didn't see this money line at Pats -400 to -500.

I don't see an effective way to use this as a hedge with the Pats in the AFC game. Thoughts? I'm tempted to put $100 on the Jags to win the Superbowl at 8-1 and just root for them.

I agree, probably not worth it to hedge in this situation. I don't think it's impossible for Jax. Coughlin has had the template to beat the Patriots in big games: rattle Brady with a fierce pass rush. Having said that, the list of QBs that the Jags have faced this year isn't the strongest. After Russell Wilson and Big Ben twice, the best QBs they've faced have been Jimmy G and Rivers. After that you have the Kizers, Stantons, TJ Yates and Tom Savages of the world.

thaskalos
01-16-2018, 02:12 PM
IMO...Jax+9 might be the best NFL bet of the year.

Boris
01-16-2018, 02:54 PM
IMO...Jax+9 might be the best NFL bet of the year.

Feeling the same way about the over 23 at halftime JAX vs NE. Either defense could kick in a score.

lamboguy
01-16-2018, 03:05 PM
IMO...Jax+9 might be the best NFL bet of the year.
i have it as one of the worst. but that is what makes a market

Valuist
01-16-2018, 04:55 PM
IMO...Jax+9 might be the best NFL bet of the year.

I liked the Jags last week. This week? It is a terrible setup for them.

The Jaguar defense was on the field for 74 plays vs Buffalo, and 78 vs the Steelers, and they looked fatigued in the second half at Pittsburgh. Jax also has played games every weekend (11 weeks) since the start of November. The Patriots have had TWO byes in that time period. The Patriot defense, one of the league's worst in September, has showed very strong improvement since then. The Jags D has had a great year, but we started to see cracks in the loss at San Francisco and again last week. Then we have the issue of a Florida based team going into brutal cold not once, but twice in January.

I can't imagine a worse set up.

thaskalos
01-16-2018, 05:52 PM
I liked the Jags last week. This week? It is a terrible setup for them.

The Jaguar defense was on the field for 74 plays vs Buffalo, and 78 vs the Steelers, and they looked fatigued in the second half at Pittsburgh. Jax also has played games every weekend (11 weeks) since the start of November. The Patriots have had TWO byes in that time period. The Patriot defense, one of the league's worst in September, has showed very strong improvement since then. The Jags D has had a great year, but we started to see cracks in the loss at San Francisco and again last week. Then we have the issue of a Florida based team going into brutal cold not once, but twice in January.

I can't imagine a worse set up.

Yes, we saw cracks in the Jags D down the stretch...but the New England cracks that were exposed by Miami, where the final score was a lot closer than the game indicated, cannot be ignored...IMO. This isn't the intimidating Patriots team that we have gotten used to in recent years...and 9 points is WAY too much to give to this Jacksonville team.

I am even putting down a moderate bet on the Jags winning OUTRIGHT. :ThmbUp:

lamboguy
01-16-2018, 06:35 PM
Yes, we saw cracks in the Jags D down the stretch...but the New England cracks that were exposed by Miami, where the final score was a lot closer than the game indicated, cannot be ignored...IMO. This isn't the intimidating Patriots team that we have gotten used to in recent years...and 9 points is WAY too much to give to this Jacksonville team.

I am even putting down a moderate bet on the Jags winning OUTRIGHT. :ThmbUp:
you must hate money!

Valuist
01-16-2018, 06:39 PM
Yes, we saw cracks in the Jags D down the stretch...but the New England cracks that were exposed by Miami, where the final score was a lot closer than the game indicated, cannot be ignored...IMO. This isn't the intimidating Patriots team that we have gotten used to in recent years...and 9 points is WAY too much to give to this Jacksonville team.

I am even putting down a moderate bet on the Jags winning OUTRIGHT. :ThmbUp:

The year to date defensive numbers for New England are deceptive. Just for points allowed: 128 points allowed in weeks 1-4. From weeks 5-17? Just 168 allowed. A dramatic turnaround. And as I mentioned earlier, a team with fresh legs while Jacksonville will be fighting fatigue.

thaskalos
01-16-2018, 07:07 PM
you must hate money!

With New England at -440 for this game...my decision is a foregone conclusion. And, at +9, the Jags are the bet of the year...IMO.

thaskalos
01-16-2018, 07:09 PM
The year to date defensive numbers for New England are deceptive. Just for points allowed: 128 points allowed in weeks 1-4. From weeks 5-17? Just 168 allowed. A dramatic turnaround. And as I mentioned earlier, a team with fresh legs while Jacksonville will be fighting fatigue.

If these points-allowed breakdowns were worth their salt...then I would have been a multi-millionaire two decades ago.

Robert Fischer
01-16-2018, 08:56 PM
Jaguars bullied the Steelers. Lots of aggressiveness. Full speed ahead, power blocking, occasionally power-misdirection offense, and gang tackling.

Patriots will use passing-misdirection on offense. Brady has the play-action(occasionally a fake reverse) and the look-away. They also have shown they are willing to go to a guy like TE Chris Hogan who seems like a 4th or 5th option.
If the Jags can maintain their discipline, and maintain their aggressiveness (and not be back on their heels), and aren't torched by a mismatch (like Gronk), they can slug it out with the Patriots offense. Maybe they can knock Brady out of the game?


I'm guessing the Patriots will play a 'disciplined' long game on defense, trying to force the Jaguars to string together consistent sustained drives. 'Disciplined', meaning that the backside of the play will be covered if the Jags try to do a naked bootleg off play-action, or if they try a block-and-release leak out with a back or TE or tackle eligible. If Bortles can somehow extend plays and make big throws, he'll torch the setup. The Patriots figure to bet against his ability to consistently convert 3rd downs, and/or light them up with big throws.

jocko699
01-16-2018, 09:32 PM
Feeling the same way about the over 23 at halftime JAX vs NE. Either defense could kick in a score.

I agree with the over 23. The weather will be in the mid 40's and I am expecting some scoring.

reckless
01-17-2018, 11:01 AM
Bill Bellichek, and the prepared Patriots' defense will stymie the Jaguars and throttle Blake Bortles to win rather easily.

Rotten, ugly weather will be the 12th man on the field too for the Patriots.

The trash-talking Steelers and their very overrated head coach proved to be easy fodder for the Jags to defeat, regardless of those silly 'experts' on TV and the media that called for the unprepared Steelers to win and be a likely Super Bowl winner, of all things.

lamboguy
01-17-2018, 11:21 AM
the Pats don't have that great a team this year compared to the other years that they won the championship. they do have a great offensive line and quarterback, the defense doesn't exactly look like the fearsome foursome or purple people eaters. but the teams that remain in contention don't have quarterbacks at the helm like Joe Montana or John Elway either and the good parts of their teams have obvious holes in them that a great coaching staff won't overlook. i really can't see anyone running to the window's to throw their money away on Jacksonville because they are getting points. i wouldn't be going to the window on them either if i was getting 19!

Secondbest
01-17-2018, 01:23 PM
I liked the Jags last week. This week? It is a terrible setup for them.

The Jaguar defense was on the field for 74 plays vs Buffalo, and 78 vs the Steelers, and they looked fatigued in the second half at Pittsburgh. Jax also has played games every weekend (11 weeks) since the start of November. The Patriots have had TWO byes in that time period. The Patriot defense, one of the league's worst in September, has showed very strong improvement since then. The Jags D has had a great year, but we started to see cracks in the loss at San Francisco and again last week. Then we have the issue of a Florida based team going into brutal cold not once, but twice in January.

I can't imagine a worse set up.
The pats will most likely go to the hurry up early and often .All things considered the jags may be gassed by the 4th quarter

BetHorses!
01-17-2018, 09:00 PM
I liked the Jags last week. This week? It is a terrible setup for them.

The Jaguar defense was on the field for 74 plays vs Buffalo, and 78 vs the Steelers, and they looked fatigued in the second half at Pittsburgh. Jax also has played games every weekend (11 weeks) since the start of November. The Patriots have had TWO byes in that time period. The Patriot defense, one of the league's worst in September, has showed very strong improvement since then. The Jags D has had a great year, but we started to see cracks in the loss at San Francisco and again last week. Then we have the issue of a Florida based team going into brutal cold not once, but twice in January.

I can't imagine a worse set up.

Good info...Jax D exhausted

Any feel for the other game after Saints choke

Valuist
01-18-2018, 01:02 PM
Good info...Jax D exhausted

Any feel for the other game after Saints choke

I think the Vikings are probably the better team, but it isn't a good spot. Huge emotional win last week and only a Nick Foles led Eagles team stands between them and a home game in the Super Bowl. A dome team having to play a cold weather game outside. I don't think its as bad for the Vikings because they LIVE in hellacious winters, but still quite different from the climate controlled noisy environment of their new stadium (TCF Bank I believe is the name?). Keenum certainly has the capability of imploding every bit as bad as Foles. At 3, I lean Eagles. At 3 1/2, definitely on them. At 2 1/2, I'd pass.

Just heard some interesting analysis this morning on VSIN. Evan Silva was on, and he claims the key to beating the Jags defense is avoid the 3 WR sets. Jax just destroys teams in 3 WR sets. But in all other situations, the QB rating allowed goes all the way up to 99. And New England loves to utilize multiple tight ends and throw to the RBs.

reckless
01-18-2018, 01:45 PM
Vikings - Eagles should really be a great game!

Both teams seem to believe they have something to prove and aren't 'respected'.

It's one of the few times I'm really and truly looking forward to watching a football game.

onefast99
01-18-2018, 04:57 PM
I think the Vikings are probably the better team, but it isn't a good spot. Huge emotional win last week and only a Nick Foles led Eagles team stands between them and a home game in the Super Bowl. A dome team having to play a cold weather game outside. I don't think its as bad for the Vikings because they LIVE in hellacious winters, but still quite different from the climate controlled noisy environment of their new stadium (TCF Bank I believe is the name?). Keenum certainly has the capability of imploding every bit as bad as Foles. At 3, I lean Eagles. At 3 1/2, definitely on them. At 2 1/2, I'd pass.

Just heard some interesting analysis this morning on VSIN. Evan Silva was on, and he claims the key to beating the Jags defense is avoid the 3 WR sets. Jax just destroys teams in 3 WR sets. But in all other situations, the QB rating allowed goes all the way up to 99. And New England loves to utilize multiple tight ends and throw to the RBs.
Game time temps will be 51 degrees....

burnsy
01-18-2018, 05:18 PM
They will try to stuff Fournette and force Bortles to beat them. The problem is their defense this year and their offensive line. They have had some good games but the better teams have torched them. If Fournette beats the edge a few times and can sustain first downs running the ball up the middle, they have a chance. Bortles is all over the map, very inconsistent. He has good games and awful ones, there is nothing in the middle. If this game rests on his arm making all the plays, its probably a rout. But if its played low scoring, dirty and ugly like the first round versus the Bills, they can win.

The other important aspect is the Jags defense. They must be flying on the line, you can't best Brady unless you press him. They gotta push the line early, that was gold vs Pittsburg, netting a fumble return for a TD. Trying to "sit back" in coverage vs. Brady is suicide, some teams never learn. Jacksonville started out good last week, but then they were awful on the later downs (3rd and 4th) as the game went on Big Ben got his legs under him and ripped them apart. That will be a recipe for disaster even if they have a lead this week.

Won't be betting this game. But I'm actually hoping New England wins. Because they most likely will be favored in the Super Bowl. Just watching how the teams played this year ( I re watch games) and the match ups. I don't think either of these teams can beat Philly or Minny. I don't see New England's offensive line holding off either of these defenses. They were in real trouble this year vs. the pass rushing teams. Carolina, KC and Miami had a field day playing that way and Brady was under fire. Cam Newton had a 137.5 QBR at New England and they were gone after the first round in the NFC. If Jacksonville somehow makes it, they will get points but they could be lucky to score 10 points against those teams. Jacksonville scored a total of 10 points against the Bills and their defense is no where near as good as these teams. I like Minnesota this week with the warm weather in Philly. If they win it will be interesting to see what the spread will be for the SB. Barring injuries I'll be betting who ever the NFC puts in there. I just think there was a real gap in quality this year, mostly of the defensive side. These teams are all copying Seattle and now its paying off in spades.

BetHorses!
01-18-2018, 06:29 PM
Sharps just hit Jags at +8

Line down another notch to 7.5

lamboguy
01-18-2018, 06:32 PM
Sharps just hit Jags at +8

Line down another notch to 7.5i just saw 7 1/2!

Valuist
01-18-2018, 06:53 PM
Sharps just hit Jags at +8

Line down another notch to 7.5

The sharps bet Jax every week. Not only this year, but most of last year as well. They also rarely are on New England. Usually they are on who has the best net yard/play for vs yards/play against.

Inner Dirt
01-18-2018, 07:21 PM
i just saw 7 1/2!

You don't think Brady's hand had anything to do with that?

Valuist
01-18-2018, 07:24 PM
You don't think Brady's hand had anything to do with that?

It probably does, but since 8 isn't a key number, I don't think a move from 8 to 7 1/2 is that big. A move from 7 1/2 to 7 WOULD be significant.

Secondbest
01-18-2018, 09:40 PM
For what it's worth .Brady didn't do any throwing again today.

thaskalos
01-18-2018, 10:00 PM
No worries. The Patriots have Brian Hoyer waiting in the wings.

lamboguy
01-19-2018, 12:03 AM
You don't think Brady's hand had anything to do with that?probably, i was just watching the line. i have no idea about the backup quarterback either.

barahona44
01-19-2018, 01:21 PM
probably, i was just watching the line. i have no idea about the backup quarterback either.

Hoyer's not a complete stiff, he's been in the league 8 years and started about 30 games, he has a 48-30 TD/INT ratio and an 86.8 qb rating.He'se another Gus Ferrotte/Jon Kitna/Matt Hasselbeck type, a backup who can be an adequate fill-in for short bursts and will be probably be holding the clipboard and wearing the baseball cap on the sidelines until he's 40.

Inner Dirt
01-19-2018, 02:30 PM
Hoyer's not a complete stiff, he's been in the league 8 years and started about 30 games, he has a 48-30 TD/INT ratio and an 86.8 qb rating.He'se another Gus Ferrotte/Jon Kitna/Matt Hasselbeck type, a backup who can be an adequate fill-in for short bursts and will be probably be holding the clipboard and wearing the baseball cap on the sidelines until he's 40.


Did you miss what happened in his only real play-off game appearance?

barahona44
01-19-2018, 04:35 PM
Did you miss what happened in his only real play-off game appearance?

I don't question that the Patriots will have a more difficult time winning if Brian Hoyer is the qb, but he's hardly some wet behind the ears rookie.He's still the most successful qb the Browns have had this decade.Which isn't saying much, I will concede.

thaskalos
01-19-2018, 06:34 PM
Tom Brady: "We'll see if I play Sunday".

BetHorses!
01-19-2018, 06:41 PM
Tom Brady: "We'll see if I play Sunday".

:lol: We will be dead before he is out.

lamboguy
01-19-2018, 06:43 PM
:lol: We will be dead before he is out.if Brady doesn't play, they will win by 20 instead of 40. this game is going to be a bloodbath no matter who plays quarterback

elysiantraveller
01-19-2018, 09:36 PM
Brady struggles against teams that can pressure him without blitzing. I'll take the Jags and the points.

Inner Dirt
01-20-2018, 10:50 AM
Tom Brady: "We'll see if I play Sunday".

I listened to both Brady's and Belichick's press conferences yesterday. I feel like I have a lot of information to make a good decision on who to bet on. :lol: I like Brady wearing gloves when interviewed. Why the media ever bothers putting a microphone in front of either of those two is beyond me. You aren't going to get any more than name, rank and serial number out of either of them. I don't know who it was but I heard another player interview asking about Brady's hand.
The guy said Brady was so handsome he only looks at his face.

reckless
01-20-2018, 12:43 PM
There's been too much late money on the Jaguars so ... I decided to bet the game and give the points.

Patriots defense along with Belichick's preparedness and coaching will stifle Bortles as I mentioned earlier. The popular Jags' run comes to a halt Sunday.

The Pats success will make it possible for the Jags to go after Eli Manning if he parts with the Giants. Bortles needs to win for him just be hinted as an elite or near elite QB. Not happening.

Plus, Brady with one hand, even if it's a throwing hand, is still better than most QBs in the NFL going full throttle.

barahona44
01-20-2018, 01:38 PM
There's been too much late money on the Jaguars so ... I decided to bet the game and give the points.

Patriots defense along with Belichick's preparedness and coaching will stifle Bortles as I mentioned earlier. The popular Jags' run comes to a halt Sunday.

The Pats success will make it possible for the Jags to go after Eli Manning if he parts with the Giants. Bortles needs to win for him just be hinted as an elite or near elite QB. Not happening.

Plus, Brady with one hand, even if it's a throwing hand, is still better than most QBs in the NFL going full throttle.

Agree wholeheartedly with your thoughts on late money, reckless.When everybody runs to the same side of the boat, it usually sinks.:) I know the NFL is REALLY sensitive to exaggerating or concealing injuries, which is why the Pats are not commenting on Brady's hand.We will know in a few plays how severe the injury, if any, is.

reckless
01-20-2018, 02:19 PM
Agree wholeheartedly with your thoughts on late money, reckless.When everybody runs to the same side of the boat, it usually sinks.:) I know the NFL is REALLY sensitive to exaggerating or concealing injuries, which is why the Pats are not commenting on Brady's hand.We will know in a few plays how severe the injury, if any, is.

I like your line, barahona.

Good luck if you bet the game.

lamboguy
01-20-2018, 02:23 PM
I like your line, barahona.

Good luck if you bet the game.i have a friend that went to vegas to bet the playoffs. we bet the pats the first week and won. the next night the line comes out and we make the same bet -9 thinking the line would go to 11. luckily i only bet what i won on the first game against Jacksonville. they put up -7 and i had to bet whatever i had left on that number.

jocko699
01-21-2018, 05:23 PM
I agree with the over 23. The weather will be in the mid 40's and I am expecting some scoring.

We'll it was covered but Jacksonville looks pretty good. They must maintain their discipline or they will lose this game.

burnsy
01-21-2018, 05:39 PM
There's been too much late money on the Jaguars so ... I decided to bet the game and give the points.

Patriots defense along with Belichick's preparedness and coaching will stifle Bortles as I mentioned earlier. The popular Jags' run comes to a halt Sunday.

The Pats success will make it possible for the Jags to go after Eli Manning if he parts with the Giants. Bortles needs to win for him just be hinted as an elite or near elite QB. Not happening.

Plus, Brady with one hand, even if it's a throwing hand, is still better than most QBs in the NFL going full throttle.


Yeah, they look really stifled??? Adjustment time.........:lol:. If they can't stop these guys, good luck if they make it to the next round.

thaskalos
01-21-2018, 05:55 PM
Bortles is 15/18 for 184 yards...and they won't let him throw on first and second down? The guy calling the offensive plays for the Jags must be an absolute MORON. How can you beat N.E. when you play scared like that? Why sit on the ball with a minute left and two timeouts at the half...after N.E. just scored a touchdown?

cj
01-21-2018, 07:02 PM
Bortles is 15/18 for 184 yards...and they won't let him throw on first and second down? The guy calling the offensive plays for the Jags must be an absolute MORON. How can you beat N.E. when you play scared like that? Why sit on the ball with a minute left and two timeouts at the half...after N.E. just scored a touchdown?

Completely changed from last week when they played to win. Not so this week. They played scared in the 4th, the coaches that is.

lamboguy
01-21-2018, 07:13 PM
congratulations to all the Jaguar bettors, you deserve the money

thaskalos
01-21-2018, 07:14 PM
IMO...Jax+9 might be the best NFL bet of the year.

You're welcome. :cool:

horses4courses
01-21-2018, 07:15 PM
You're welcome. :cool:

Nice call :ThmbUp:

Easy money is even sweeter ;)

ElKabong
01-21-2018, 07:17 PM
First nfl game I've watched all year, ..no doubt JAX had the best compilation of players, but NE pulls another one out. Congrats to the bettors that took the points, great move. You got the better team of players, and weren't affected by Brady / Belichek Magic.

Fun game to watch.

burnsy
01-21-2018, 07:26 PM
Completely changed from last week when they played to win. Not so this week. They played scared in the 4th, the coaches that is.

Yup. blew it the 4th with predictability. Fournette getting stuffed on first down (multiple times) was not the way to go ......you need first downs and New England is weak on pass defense. teams never learn. they blew the field position and practically gave that game away. the passing misdirection was gold and they wandered from it, thought they could run every time........took no chances, didn't trust the QB......game over. But New England is no super power either, they were exposed against a young, offense deficient team. They better have a better game on defense next time. Punting from deep in your territory is just asking to get beat. Played sacred, took no chances until they fell behind and made some terrible penalties on key plays.

Robert Fischer
01-21-2018, 07:40 PM
IMO...Jax+9 might be the best NFL bet of the year.

Great call. Thought you were full of it until about three hours ago.

Secondbest
01-21-2018, 08:28 PM
The Pats are like Dracula you have to put that stake in the heart then burn them in the sunlight. If not they just rise back up and beat you.

barahona44
01-21-2018, 09:46 PM
Patriots have dominated hardly any opponents this year, too many close games against mediocre teams.But the SB is one game and anything can happen-just ask the Giants.

reckless
01-22-2018, 07:01 AM
I don't know why the Eagles are not favored, really.

This line drops and not because of crazy Eagle fans or an 'injury' to Tom Brady that was over-the-top and poorly reported -- the Eagles are simply a better team!

reckless
01-22-2018, 07:19 AM
I don't know why the Eagles are not favored, really.

This line drops and not because of crazy Eagle fans or an 'injury' to Tom Brady that was over-the-top and poorly reported -- the Eagles are simply a better team!

Boomer Esiason on WFAN just said Tom Brady's hand injury required 14 stitches.

My bad, not over-the-top but the reporting in sports, politics, everywhere is still so very poor and unprofessional, sad to say.

Valuist
01-22-2018, 11:06 AM
IMO...Jax+9 might be the best NFL bet of the year.

Great call Thask.

If I may borrow a "Serlingism", the Patriots are all dressed up. They are the equivalent of a horse who was lone speed on a rail biased track. It was a terrible setup for Jax, yet they clearly were the better team for at least 3 quarters. Two keys enabled the comeback: obviously the conversion on 3rd and 18 was huge, but Miles Jack, one of the top defensive players in the league, was out injured for the Patriots' final scoring drive. Dareus was also out on part of that drive.

Did Jax get scared in the 4th quarter? Probably. But one bone to pick with on Jax play caller and Bortles: why didn't Bortles run/scramble more? His scrambles have been one of the best offensive weapons all year for the Jags.

Valuist
01-22-2018, 11:09 AM
I don't know why the Eagles are not favored, really.

This line drops and not because of crazy Eagle fans or an 'injury' to Tom Brady that was over-the-top and poorly reported -- the Eagles are simply a better team!

There will be a strong sharp/square divide for the SB. Sharps will be on Philly, squares will be on New England.

If one likes Philly, no point to bet at 5 1/2. Got to hope it hits 6, but if its falls to 5, the difference between 5 and 5 1/2 is negligible, as its not a key number.

If one likes the Pats, they probably should bet now and not risk laying 6.

barahona44
01-22-2018, 11:54 AM
Just as the home team automatically gets 3 points, the Patriots seem to be getting three "rep points".

If the Patriots do win, I see this as the last roundup.Brady has shown signs of age and the Pats have annihilated very few weak opponents this year, as they usually do.McDaniels and Patricia are gone after the SB, so now you have to find two new coordinators.The tension between Bellichik and Kraft doesn't help matters any.A great run but everything comes to an end.

BetHorses!
01-22-2018, 12:28 PM
There will be a strong sharp/square divide for the SB. Sharps will be on Philly, squares will be on New England.

If one likes Philly, no point to bet at 5 1/2. Got to hope it hits 6, but if its falls to 5, the difference between 5 and 5 1/2 is negligible, as its not a key number.

If one likes the Pats, they probably should bet now and not risk laying 6.


They like bowls on the half shell. No pushes

lamboguy
02-01-2018, 04:30 PM
i don't know who is going to win this game, but i highly recommend you bet the Pats -4 before the line shoots up to 6 or more.

thaskalos
02-01-2018, 04:59 PM
i don't know who is going to win this game, but i highly recommend you bet the Pats -4 before the line shoots up to 6 or more.

No Patriot money will show up this time around. The New England faithful went broke on the Jacksonville game. :)

BetHorses!
02-03-2018, 12:51 PM
i don't know who is going to win this game, but i highly recommend you bet the Pats -4 before the line shoots up to 6 or more.


Nobody really staying at -4 they don't want a push. 5 is a dead number but they really want the half...so maybe 5.5 if all the Pats money does show up. Right now it looks like 4.5

burnsy
02-05-2018, 10:53 AM
The TV blather is hilarious, but you can't beat reality. Nick Foles is a good QB on an awesome team. The Eagles defense folded but they made the big play LAST. New England's defense was terrible. Their offensive line held up better than i thought it would but the defense was a weakness against every good team they played this year. When you see NE giving up 30 points a game at home there's problems......Yeah, you can beat up on the tomato cans in the middle of the season, but that defense got torched a good portion of the year. They could not get the Eagles off the field. You can try to take one Eagle away but they have 5(at any given play) people they can dish the ball to. The Eagle offensive line ran over that defense like they were pansies on running plays.

Tom Brady played his usual great game, but as I always say, he doesn't cover people, block people or tackle people. Its a team sport! The Eagles won on aggressive calls and basic football. They out blocked and out tackled the New England Patriots. Bill Belichick wears the dunce cap and Doug Pederson looks like the genius. He done out Patriotated the Patriots.

Valuist
02-05-2018, 12:46 PM
Have to give credit to Nick Foles. When he put up insane numbers in 2013, people said he benefitted from the system and Chip Kelly got 100% of the credit. And when Foles' performance came back to earth, that opinion seemed solidified.

Maybe 2013 wasn't all Chip Kelly.

barahona44
02-05-2018, 08:36 PM
Wonder if the Detroit Lions are having second thoughts about hiring Matt Patricia as HC, after the atrocious performance by the defense last night.

Something I found out the other day is that Patricia has a degree in aeronautical engineering from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI). So the guy is literally a rocket scientist.

elysiantraveller
02-05-2018, 11:20 PM
Wonder if the Detroit Lions are having second thoughts about hiring Matt Patricia as HC, after the atrocious performance by the defense last night.

Something I found out the other day is that Patricia has a degree in aeronautical engineering from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI). So the guy is literally a rocket scientist.

I was having second thoughts before the playoffs when it was rumored. NE coordinators do not do well outside of the system and the Lions woes are offensive line and run game related.

I wasn't stoked then and honestly not stoked now. If we were going to take a NE coordinator I wanted McDaniels.

tucker6
02-06-2018, 08:58 AM
I was having second thoughts before the playoffs when it was rumored. NE coordinators do not do well outside of the system and the Lions woes are offensive line and run game related.

I wasn't stoked then and honestly not stoked now. If we were going to take a NE coordinator I wanted McDaniels.

I think the problem they all have (including Belicheat) is Tom Brady. When they no longer have him under center, they become average. Billy's day will come, and I expect Brady to meet Father Time next year. His throws already look a little slower and arched than they were a couple years ago. When the defenses start playing tight on his receivers, he will be done.

lamboguy
02-06-2018, 03:12 PM
the guy that replaced Butler had no clue what he was doing on the field. the reason they didn't play Butler is a story that none of us know why. no doubt the Eagles ate up the Pats defense for lunch. The Eagle defense wasn't exactly the steel curtain either. throw in Brady missing a few open receivers and you now have an Eagle victory.

anyway it turned out to be one of the better Super Bowls to watch.

burnsy
02-11-2018, 01:25 PM
I think the problem they all have (including Belicheat) is Tom Brady. When they no longer have him under center, they become average. Billy's day will come, and I expect Brady to meet Father Time next year. His throws already look a little slower and arched than they were a couple years ago. When the defenses start playing tight on his receivers, he will be done.

That's an understatement, without him they may not of made the playoffs this year. That team without him and Gronk really is not much. Both of them are getting old, Brady is going to be 41 and Gronk has been hurt so many times he can't even run/move right. He looks like the Tin Man. This ship is slowly sinking and they have been fortunate to be in the AFC East. I'm a Bills fan but i can admit its been the worst division for at least 15 years. They get the chump schedule and most years home field, they have had superior teams up til this year but its been a cushy ride. Brady will go down as one of the greatest QB's of all time but you are right he makes more mistakes now throwing and furthermore he is a sitting duck in the pocket. He never was a great scrambler he used to step one way or the other to buy time, now he just goes down. By upper management forcing the trade of Jim Garoppolo they just stuck a fork in themselves unless they find a miracle. That team laterally rode on his back this year and, Kraft is loyal to him til the end and the end is coming soon. I agree, 2018 may be it for him. If it isn't he has two seasons tops but it may not end pretty at that.

Secondbest
02-11-2018, 01:51 PM
That's an understatement, without him they may not of made the playoffs this year. That team without him and Gronk really is not much. Both of them are getting old, Brady is going to be 41 and Gronk has been hurt so many times he can't even run/move right. He looks like the Tin Man. This ship is slowly sinking and they have been fortunate to be in the AFC East. I'm a Bills fan but i can admit its been the worst division for at least 15 years. They get the chump schedule and most years home field, they have had superior teams up til this year but its been a cushy ride. Brady will go down as one of the greatest QB's of all time but you are right he makes more mistakes now throwing and furthermore he is a sitting duck in the pocket. He never was a great scrambler he used to step one way or the other to buy time, now he just goes down. By upper management forcing the trade of Jim Garoppolo they just stuck a fork in themselves unless they find a miracle. That team laterally rode on his back this year and, Kraft is loyal to him til the end and the end is coming soon. I agree, 2018 may be it for him. If it isn't he has two seasons tops but it may not end pretty at that.

Your right. Kraft let sentimentality cloud his football sense. Branch Rickey always said better to get rid of a guy a year too early than a year too late.
Brady can still play but for how long? Garoppolo could be around for 10-15 years .Kraft made a mistake and Belichek knows it.It was a great run in this era of free agency. Probably won't be matched again.
Having said all that .Pats are favorites in Vegas to win it all next year.

Robert Fischer
02-11-2018, 04:14 PM
... and they have been fortunate to be in the AFC East. I'm a Bills fan but i can admit its been the worst division for at least 15 years. They get the chump schedule and most years home field, they have had superior teams up til this year but its been a cushy ride.

It's pretty obvious that the NFL wants (and has successfully arranged that) the Patriots to have a 'sparring partner' division, and every chance at home field.

The NFL is a media-revenue business. As it's grown that way over the years, the Patriots happen to be a successful model franchise, with a large market-share. The Steelers haven't exactly had the toughest division in the league either, for most recent NFL seasons.

The NBA is just as bad, if not worse with power-concentration, but recently they love to flaunt the ability to sell a major market team like the Knicks and Lakers without worrying about quality, while doing a great job of manufacturing marketing star-vehicles in less organic markets like Lebron James' Cleveland in the East, and the power-house they have in Golden State.

It really stood out this year with 4 teams go 13-3 this year (w/ Eagles and Vikings). You think '13-3' and you think of some ass-kicking superteam that is loaded with talent, and playing perfect football. These teams were a serious contender in any game they played, but far from juggernauts, save perhaps the Eagles, with the way they capped off the year.

burnsy
02-12-2018, 08:07 AM
It's pretty obvious that the NFL wants (and has successfully arranged that) the Patriots to have a 'sparring partner' division, and every chance at home field.

The NFL is a media-revenue business. As it's grown that way over the years, the Patriots happen to be a successful model franchise, with a large market-share. The Steelers haven't exactly had the toughest division in the league either, for most recent NFL seasons.

The NBA is just as bad, if not worse with power-concentration, but recently they love to flaunt the ability to sell a major market team like the Knicks and Lakers without worrying about quality, while doing a great job of manufacturing marketing star-vehicles in less organic markets like Lebron James' Cleveland in the East, and the power-house they have in Golden State.

It really stood out this year with 4 teams go 13-3 this year (w/ Eagles and Vikings). You think '13-3' and you think of some ass-kicking superteam that is loaded with talent, and playing perfect football. These teams were a serious contender in any game they played, but far from juggernauts, save perhaps the Eagles, with the way they capped off the year.

Good point, it just goes to show how powerful the media is and the market power it possess. At least the Steelers division produced a Super Bowl winner. The AFC East has been a one trick pony........forever. The media is the highest source of power in todays world, many people watch the "News" and don't even question it. Its no wonder that the most powerful and most wealthy people are involved with managing the media.

As for the Patriots being favorites for next years Super Bowl.....I wouldn't bet a wooden nickel on that. That's probably low hanging fruit for the books, using said media. They can now milk this cow for a buck. At least for one more year. The bookies know the power of the media as well that's why i got 7 and 5.5 betting against the Patriots.