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Track Collector
01-01-2018, 11:11 PM
Here it is........a place to post your current year poker thoughts and happenings. Don't be bashful about telling us about your activities in the world of poker.

classhandicapper
01-02-2018, 03:00 PM
Venessa Selbst is more or less retiring from professional poker.

https://twitter.com/VanessaSelbst

https://www.facebook.com/VSelbst/posts/1539524546084021

It sounds like a combination of things contributed to the decision, but among them is that the game is getting a lot tougher.

thaskalos
01-02-2018, 03:53 PM
Venessa Selbst is more or less retiring from professional poker.

https://twitter.com/VanessaSelbst

https://www.facebook.com/VSelbst/posts/1539524546084021

It sounds like a combination of things contributed to the decision, but among them is that the game is getting a lot tougher.


"Beatable" gambling games always get progressively tougher as the "fish" eventually drop out of sight...and then there really isn't any money left on the table for those who are primarily out to "have fun", without really applying themselves with a high level of resolve and discipline. And this applies to the "superstars" like Selbst...as well as to us "grinders" out there.

Of course...the fact that Selbst has other attractive career options had a lot to do with her decision to abandon "serious poker". We should all be that fortunate...

Valuist
01-04-2018, 04:33 PM
Thask,

Do you play blackjack?

thaskalos
01-04-2018, 05:45 PM
Thask,

Do you play blackjack?

Not any more. The horses, poker, and basketball/baseball-betting now occupy my time. I am also currently working on a craps system that has shown considerable promise over the last year or so...but that's still a work in progress. :)

proximity
04-04-2018, 06:32 AM
after an extended hiatus i finally kicked off my gambling season the other day with a trip to the charles town races and slots in wild and wonderful west virginia!

the old 3/6 game isn't running.... not even a list.... so i jump onto the 1/2 no limit list and within fifteen minutes a new game is called.

there are some questionable players in this one. a guy beside me is playing every hand. he quickly taps and two players (beavis and butthead in seats five and six) pick up where he leaves off.

some things never change as i lose with KK. :rolleyes:

i also drop several hands with 66.

one hand i lose an extra ten dollars thanks to the brilliant play of beavis.

me (66) and a couple other players have limped and beavis limps in the small blind. butthead raises the big blind to $10 and we all call the extra $8 until the action gets back to beavis who, i guess anticipating that butthead would raise the big blind :rolleyes:, now raises to $20! butthead just calls, the rest of us call, and no six hits the board.

i'm not sure if beavis and butthead are kicking each other under the table or what exactly is going on? in a few hours beavis loses $600; most of it to butthead.

eventually i rally to win $15 and raise my record to 1-0 on the year. over at live racing i pull in another $6. but after spending $17 for a pregame haircut and $5 for a daily racing program i depart charles town with a dollar less than i arrived with.

at least i'm rounding again though. ;)

game +15 (1/2 nl)
year +15 (1-0)

Track Collector
07-18-2018, 03:02 AM
On my recent horseracing trip to Prineville, OR I had a unique poker experience in the nearby town of Bend. Seems they have this place called "The Poker Room", which is a social club which among other things offers Texas Holdem. The player pays a one-time admission fee ($10) for the privilege of playing until closing. They offer tournaments almost nightly along with a few tables for cash games. And, all games are player-dealt. The dealer simultaneously dealt and played in the hand (like in home games). They dealt in one-hour increments, and players could either volunteer to do so or were assigned by lot. And with the cash games, the player received the entire pot because the house did not extract any rake.

Because The Poker Room open hours and the times the races in Prineville run pretty much overlapped, I was only able to play about 1 hour on each of 2 different days.

On the first day I ended up winning $194 in the 1/2 NL game. Most of that coming from going all in after the river with the nut flush. The main villain called with less with a lesser flush.

The second day in a 1/2 NL game I offered to serve as dealer. Since I have always played in the casino and never a home game, I was a little nervous at first. It is definitely a challenge to concentrate on one's hand while simultaneously dealing and managing the overall game.

On one hand I ended up flopping Aces with a King kicker only to lose to a rivered flush. My last hand before leaving had me limping in on the button with 34o. Normally I don't do this but most of the other players called and I would be leaving anyway in about 5 minutes. The flop comes 3 4 7 rainbow. The first player bets $20 and a 2nd player calls. When it gets to me I jam my remaining $115. The 1st bettor calls after about 3 minutes of thought, and the 2nd player surprisingly calls as well. The turn yields a King and the river a 6, and the 1st player scoops the pot with Trip 7's. So I was basically crushed unless the turn and river were either 3-3 or 4-4, which is extremely rare.

In hindsight I played this hand really bad. Not because I ended up losing, but because of my play both pre and post-flop. Under the same conditions at my home poker room I probably would have folded 95% of the time with 34o on the button and a bunch of callers. Then I compounded the error by raising all-in post-flop. I should have probably raised about $50-$60, which would likely have folded out over pairs. Once called I am now definitely behind, and check/fold on both the turn and/or river allows me to lose about $60 less.

Poor pre-flop play like this often land you in hands which require more difficult decisions, which ultimately result in having less chips at the end of the day.

I lost $4 over the two days and certainly enjoy my time, despite such short playing sessions.

dilanesp
07-19-2018, 08:33 PM
On my recent horseracing trip to Prineville, OR I had a unique poker experience in the nearby town of Bend. Seems they have this place called "The Poker Room", which is a social club which among other things offers Texas Holdem. The player pays a one-time admission fee ($10) for the privilege of playing until closing. They offer tournaments almost nightly along with a few tables for cash games. And, all games are player-dealt. The dealer simultaneously dealt and played in the hand (like in home games). They dealt in one-hour increments, and players could either volunteer to do so or were assigned by lot. And with the cash games, the player received the entire pot because the house did not extract any rake.

Because The Poker Room open hours and the times the races in Prineville run pretty much overlapped, I was only able to play about 1 hour on each of 2 different days.

On the first day I ended up winning $194 in the 1/2 NL game. Most of that coming from going all in after the river with the nut flush. The main villain called with less with a lesser flush.

The second day in a 1/2 NL game I offered to serve as dealer. Since I have always played in the casino and never a home game, I was a little nervous at first. It is definitely a challenge to concentrate on one's hand while simultaneously dealing and managing the overall game.

On one hand I ended up flopping Aces with a King kicker only to lose to a rivered flush. My last hand before leaving had me limping in on the button with 34o. Normally I don't do this but most of the other players called and I would be leaving anyway in about 5 minutes. The flop comes 3 4 7 rainbow. The first player bets $20 and a 2nd player calls. When it gets to me I jam my remaining $115. The 1st bettor calls after about 3 minutes of thought, and the 2nd player surprisingly calls as well. The turn yields a King and the river a 6, and the 1st player scoops the pot with Trip 7's. So I was basically crushed unless the turn and river were either 3-3 or 4-4, which is extremely rare.

In hindsight I played this hand really bad. Not because I ended up losing, but because of my play both pre and post-flop. Under the same conditions at my home poker room I probably would have folded 95% of the time with 34o on the button and a bunch of callers. Then I compounded the error by raising all-in post-flop. I should have probably raised about $50-$60, which would likely have folded out over pairs. Once called I am now definitely behind, and check/fold on both the turn and/or river allows me to lose about $60 less.

Poor pre-flop play like this often land you in hands which require more difficult decisions, which ultimately result in having less chips at the end of the day.

I lost $4 over the two days and certainly enjoy my time, despite such short playing sessions.

Probably not an issue in small stakes games in Bend, OR (a town I have actually been to, by the way :) ), but the experience in California is that self-dealt games were full of corruption and mechanics.

Whosonfirst
07-23-2018, 10:16 PM
On my recent horseracing trip to Prineville, OR I had a unique poker experience in the nearby town of Bend. Seems they have this place called "The Poker Room", which is a social club which among other things offers Texas Holdem. The player pays a one-time admission fee ($10) for the privilege of playing until closing. They offer tournaments almost nightly along with a few tables for cash games. And, all games are player-dealt. The dealer simultaneously dealt and played in the hand (like in home games). They dealt in one-hour increments, and players could either volunteer to do so or were assigned by lot. And with the cash games, the player received the entire pot because the house did not extract any rake.

Because The Poker Room open hours and the times the races in Prineville run pretty much overlapped, I was only able to play about 1 hour on each of 2 different days.

On the first day I ended up winning $194 in the 1/2 NL game. Most of that coming from going all in after the river with the nut flush. The main villain called with less with a lesser flush.

The second day in a 1/2 NL game I offered to serve as dealer. Since I have always played in the casino and never a home game, I was a little nervous at first. It is definitely a challenge to concentrate on one's hand while simultaneously dealing and managing the overall game.

On one hand I ended up flopping Aces with a King kicker only to lose to a rivered flush. My last hand before leaving had me limping in on the button with 34o. Normally I don't do this but most of the other players called and I would be leaving anyway in about 5 minutes. The flop comes 3 4 7 rainbow. The first player bets $20 and a 2nd player calls. When it gets to me I jam my remaining $115. The 1st bettor calls after about 3 minutes of thought, and the 2nd player surprisingly calls as well. The turn yields a King and the river a 6, and the 1st player scoops the pot with Trip 7's. So I was basically crushed unless the turn and river were either 3-3 or 4-4, which is extremely rare.

In hindsight I played this hand really bad. Not because I ended up losing, but because of my play both pre and post-flop. Under the same conditions at my home poker room I probably would have folded 95% of the time with 34o on the button and a bunch of callers. Then I compounded the error by raising all-in post-flop. I should have probably raised about $50-$60, which would likely have folded out over pairs. Once called I am now definitely behind, and check/fold on both the turn and/or river allows me to lose about $60 less.

Poor pre-flop play like this often land you in hands which require more difficult decisions, which ultimately result in having less chips at the end of the day.

I lost $4 over the two days and certainly enjoy my time, despite such short playing sessions.

One of my favorite small towns in this country(Bend). I hope you made it out to the Pilot Butte Drive In. Some of the nicest people I've ever met, and the burgers are just wow.

v j stauffer
07-27-2018, 05:54 PM
During the WSOP I heard Nick Schulman talking about advertising for backers into the Main Event on Twitter.

Does anybody know how that works? What are the terms for the investors?

I was wondering if it might be a good idea to try something like that for myself in Horse Handicapping Tournaments.

Any input on any aspect of this post would be much appreciated.

Thanks

V J S

thaskalos
07-27-2018, 07:50 PM
During the WSOP I heard Nick Schulman talking about advertising for backers into the Main Event on Twitter.

Does anybody know how that works? What are the terms for the investors?

I was wondering if it might be a good idea to try something like that for myself in Horse Handicapping Tournaments.

Any input on any aspect of this post would be much appreciated.

Thanks

V J S

https://www.pokernews.com/news/2012/10/jason-mercier-gives-insight-into-the-world-of-staking-13579.htm

v j stauffer
07-27-2018, 11:16 PM
https://www.pokernews.com/news/2012/10/jason-mercier-gives-insight-into-the-world-of-staking-13579.htm

Thanks Thask.

What would you think about a player seeking backers in horse racing tournaments?

Do you think there would be investors interested?

What do you think would be fair terms?

ReplayRandall
07-27-2018, 11:21 PM
Thanks Thask.

What would you think about a player seeking backers in horse racing tournaments?

Do you think there would be investors interested?

What do you think would be fair terms?
What would be the average tournament outlay?

v j stauffer
07-28-2018, 12:48 AM
What would be the average tournament outlay?

The smallest would be $3000 the largest $10,000

ReplayRandall
07-28-2018, 12:52 AM
The smallest would be $3000 the largest $10,000

How many do you expect to play in a year?

Are these all brick and mortar?

thaskalos
07-28-2018, 12:58 AM
Thanks Thask.

What would you think about a player seeking backers in horse racing tournaments?

Do you think there would be investors interested?

What do you think would be fair terms?

To be honest...I know very little about the scheduling, structure, and potential profitability of these "big-money" handicapping tournaments. But a player with a good "resume" shouldn't have any trouble finding a backer...and the terms are always negotiable. I will be back in Vegas in exactly a month, and, if you want...you and I might be able to come to some sort of an arrangement, in this regard. I was thinking of getting my feet wet in these tournaments...and forming an alliance with you might be the preferable solution.

v j stauffer
07-28-2018, 06:39 PM
How many do you expect to play in a year?

Are these all brick and mortar?

They are all brick and mortar. However, the PWC & BCBC can be played on line.

My schedule would probably look like this.

Pegasus World Cup (gulfstream) $12,000

Grade One Gamble (keeneland) $3000

Kentucky Derby Betting Challenge (churchill) $7500

Preakness Betting Challenge (santa anita) $4500

Belmont Betting Challenge (belmont) $10,000

Santa Anita Summer Betting Challenge (santa anita) $3000

Monmouth Pick Your Prize (monmouth) $2000

Del Mar Summer (del mar) $8000

The Big One (laurel) $7500

Del Mar Fall (del mar) $4500

Breeders' Cup Betting Challenge (churchill) $7500

Total $69,500

However, keep in mind it's not unusual to buy more than one entry. Either at the start. Or if the first entry goes broke before entries close for the rest of the Tournament.

v j stauffer
07-28-2018, 06:42 PM
To be honest...I know very little about the scheduling, structure, and potential profitability of these "big-money" handicapping tournaments. But a player with a good "resume" shouldn't have any trouble finding a backer...and the terms are always negotiable. I will be back in Vegas in exactly a month, and, if you want...you and I might be able to come to some sort of an arrangement, in this regard. I was thinking of getting my feet wet in these tournaments...and forming an alliance with you might be the preferable solution.

All that and you get a well deserved steak dinner.

v j stauffer
07-30-2018, 09:56 PM
I was playing 1-2 No Limit today at the Red Rock.

I think I played the hand correctly and just got unlucky but you tell me.

Start of the hand I had about $495.00

I was the big blind.

The two who ended up playing after the flop were a guy with $67.00 two seats to my left and the small blind who had about $425.00

5 way limped pot. I saw a flop with 2-5 off suit.

The flop comes A-3-4 two spades.

The small blind acts first and bets $18.00. While I'm thinking of what to do with my straight the guy to the left of me acts out of turn and puts his $67.00 all in.

I surmise the dealer can't answer the question I have so I call the floor and ask what plays or plays I can make that will force him to leave his $67.00 in the pot. I'm told that the only play I can make is to flat call the $18.00. So that's what I do.

After a short bit of thought the small blind calls the $67.00.

I shove for $477.00

The small blind thinks about it for 3 minutes or so and calls.

He has J-7 of spades

The 9 of spades comes on the turn and I lose.

Correct me if I'm wrong but his call was really bad for two reasons. One, we was only getting about 7/5 on his money.

Further compounded by the fact I don't think he ever considered that I might have better spades. And perhaps toughest to deal with is. After the question I asked the floor the small blind dude should have anticipated I was likely to shove based on the way I formed the question.

I know I was only about a 2-1 favorite so I'm not crying that I lost to a huge suck out.

What I hate is I think I'm correct in saying that his call was HORRIBLE:puke:

What say you guys?

JustRalph
07-30-2018, 10:13 PM
after an extended hiatus i finally kicked off my gambling season the other day with a trip to the charles town races and slots in wild and wonderful west virginia!

the old 3/6 game isn't running.... not even a list.... so i jump onto the 1/2 no limit list and within fifteen minutes a new game is called.

there are some questionable players in this one. a guy beside me is playing every hand. he quickly taps and two players (beavis and butthead in seats five and six) pick up where he leaves off.

some things never change as i lose with KK. :rolleyes:

i also drop several hands with 66.

one hand i lose an extra ten dollars thanks to the brilliant play of beavis.

me (66) and a couple other players have limped and beavis limps in the small blind. butthead raises the big blind to $10 and we all call the extra $8 until the action gets back to beavis who, i guess anticipating that butthead would raise the big blind :rolleyes:, now raises to $20! butthead just calls, the rest of us call, and no six hits the board.

i'm not sure if beavis and butthead are kicking each other under the table or what exactly is going on? in a few hours beavis loses $600; most of it to butthead.

eventually i rally to win $15 and raise my record to 1-0 on the year. over at live racing i pull in another $6. but after spending $17 for a pregame haircut and $5 for a daily racing program i depart charles town with a dollar less than i arrived with.

at least i'm rounding again though. ;)

game +15 (1/2 nl)
year +15 (1-0)

At least the Harpers Ferry cop didn’t clip you $200 for speeding on the way out........my only ticket in 30 yrs......

Poker, social clubs are popping up in Houston. $10 admission, $15 an hour to rent a chair. BYOB too. Bottled water is $5

https://www.click2houston.com/video/legal-gambling-at-post-oak-poker-club

DeltaLover
07-30-2018, 11:13 PM
I was playing 1-2 No Limit today at the Red Rock.

I think I played the hand correctly and just got unlucky but you tell me.

Start of the hand I had about $495.00

I was the big blind.

The two who ended up playing after the flop were a guy with $67.00 two seats to my left and the small blind who had about $425.00

5 way limped pot. I saw a flop with 2-5 off suit.

The flop comes A-3-4 two spades.

The small blind acts first and bets $18.00. While I'm thinking of what to do with my straight the guy to the left of me acts out of turn and puts his $67.00 all in.

I surmise the dealer can't answer the question I have so I call the floor and ask what plays or plays I can make that will force him to leave his $67.00 in the pot. I'm told that the only play I can make is to flat call the $18.00. So that's what I do.

After a short bit of thought the small blind calls the $67.00.

I shove for $477.00

The small blind thinks about it for 3 minutes or so and calls.

He has J-7 of spades

The 9 of spades comes on the turn and I lose.

Correct me if I'm wrong but his call was really bad for two reasons. One, we was only getting about 7/5 on his money.

Further compounded by the fact I don't think he ever considered that I might have better spades. And perhaps toughest to deal with is. After the question I asked the floor the small blind dude should have anticipated I was likely to shove based on the way I formed the question.

I know I was only about a 2-1 favorite so I'm not crying that I lost to a huge suck out.

What I hate is I think I'm correct in saying that his call was HORRIBLE:puke:

What say you guys?

The way you are describing the hand, he is getting more than 8/5 for his money (585 / 338). He will beat you 37 % (note that the pot is protected that adds more complexity to the decision) so he needs 1.7 -1 to call meaning that at the flop he has enough pot odds to call you.

Track Collector
07-30-2018, 11:47 PM
I was playing 1-2 No Limit today at the Red Rock.

I think I played the hand correctly and just got unlucky but you tell me.

Start of the hand I had about $495.00

I was the big blind.

The two who ended up playing after the flop were a guy with $67.00 two seats to my left and the small blind who had about $425.00

5 way limped pot. I saw a flop with 2-5 off suit.

The flop comes A-3-4 two spades.

The small blind acts first and bets $18.00. While I'm thinking of what to do with my straight the guy to the left of me acts out of turn and puts his $67.00 all in.

I surmise the dealer can't answer the question I have so I call the floor and ask what plays or plays I can make that will force him to leave his $67.00 in the pot. I'm told that the only play I can make is to flat call the $18.00. So that's what I do.

After a short bit of thought the small blind calls the $67.00.

I shove for $477.00

The small blind thinks about it for 3 minutes or so and calls.

He has J-7 of spades

The 9 of spades comes on the turn and I lose.

Correct me if I'm wrong but his call was really bad for two reasons. One, we was only getting about 7/5 on his money.

Further compounded by the fact I don't think he ever considered that I might have better spades. And perhaps toughest to deal with is. After the question I asked the floor the small blind dude should have anticipated I was likely to shove based on the way I formed the question.

I know I was only about a 2-1 favorite so I'm not crying that I lost to a huge suck out.

What I hate is I think I'm correct in saying that his call was HORRIBLE:puke:

What say you guys?


I think your math is pretty much spot on as well as your thinking that his calling your shove was a BAD move.


I used an on-line poker calculator, and gave the third player pocket Aces. Post flop the odds for you were .379 and the eventual winner .261 (2.83 to 1). His shove of $358 into a pot of $510 shows he is only getting about 1.42 to 1 odds, or about 1/2 the minimum required mathematically in order to consider making a call. Yup, definitely a very bad call.


There is of course "good" news and "bad" news.


The good news is that if this is a regular behavior with this player, someone is going to benefit from it in the future.


The bad news is that when a similar opportunity occurs again in our current game, we have been dealt hands like 27o and 49o and have long-since tossed them in. :pout:

Track Collector
07-31-2018, 01:15 AM
The way you are describing the hand, he is getting more than 8/5 for his money (585 / 338). He will beat you 37 % (note that the pot is protected that adds more complexity to the decision) so he needs 1.7 -1 to call meaning that at the flop he has enough pot odds to call you.

I think my initial response and your response both contain errors. And, it would seem to be a bit complicated given that it is a 3-way pot with 1 player all-in.

I failed to consider that Vic and the villain have a side pot, and I agree that the villains chances are 37% in that one. And although minor, I also neglected the limpers/blinds who ended up folding.

Please note that before going any further, Vic starts the hand with $70 more than the villain.

The villain's all-in call of Vic was for 425 - 67 (calling the all-in of the first player) = 358.

Against Vic in the side pot, the villain is risking 358 to win Vic's 358. (The other 67 Vic put in went to the main pot where he has an approximate chance of winning 3-way of .379 and the villain's chance is .261).

So against Vic, he needs to win 50% of the time where his estimated chances are 37%. Not Good! (In hindsight), although I imagine only a tiny microscopic number of poker players would even be able to arrive at a close approximation of their required odds of calling while while trying to do in in real time and perhaps eventually having clock called.


...

v j stauffer
07-31-2018, 06:04 PM
I think my initial response and your response both contain errors. And, it would seem to be a bit complicated given that it is a 3-way pot with 1 player all-in.

I failed to consider that Vic and the villain have a side pot, and I agree that the villains chances are 37% in that one. And although minor, I also neglected the limpers/blinds who ended up folding.

Please note that before going any further, Vic starts the hand with $70 more than the villain.

The villain's all-in call of Vic was for 425 - 67 (calling the all-in of the first player) = 358.

Against Vic in the side pot, the villain is risking 358 to win Vic's 358. (The other 67 Vic put in went to the main pot where he has an approximate chance of winning 3-way of .379 and the villain's chance is .261).

So against Vic, he needs to win 50% of the time where his estimated chances are 37%. Not Good! (In hindsight), although I imagine only a tiny microscopic number of poker players would even be able to arrive at a close approximation of their required odds of calling while while trying to do in in real time and perhaps eventually having clock called.


...

I'm a strong believer in table talk which in this case was legal since even though there were 3 people the banter couldn't influence the $67.00 guy.

I should have engaged him conversation and found a way to let him know I might have bigger spades as well. I'm convinced he never even considered that.

Believe me. Even though I knew I was well ahead I wanted him to fold. I was happy winning what was already out there with a hand I couldn't improve.

IMO his call was VERY STUPID but not that surprising at this level of play.

Again, not crying, I'm a big boy.

Reminds me of the reason why I'm not really cut out to play poker for big $$$'s.

I have a tough time reconciling doing everything correctly and still losing quite often just because of the math.

thaskalos
07-31-2018, 08:28 PM
I'm a strong believer in table talk which in this case was legal since even though there were 3 people the banter couldn't influence the $67.00 guy.

I should have engaged him conversation and found a way to let him know I might have bigger spades as well. I'm convinced he never even considered that.

Believe me. Even though I knew I was well ahead I wanted him to fold. I was happy winning what was already out there with a hand I couldn't improve.

IMO his call was VERY STUPID but not that surprising at this level of play.

Again, not crying, I'm a big boy.

Reminds me of the reason why I'm not really cut out to play poker for big $$$'s.

I have a tough time reconciling doing everything correctly and still losing quite often just because of the math.

Stick with it, and you'll get used to it...as I did. And you'll find that your newly-found "courage" will serve you well in horse-betting too.

It helps enormously if the gambler gets his start in poker first...IMO. That way...he realizes from the beginning that the player's "control" over the situation ends when the money leaves his hands. Once the money gets put in play...the control is relinquished to the hands of the gambling gods...and there is nothing more that the player can do.

The horseplayer loses a race, and returns to the past performances to see what he missed about the winner...and why he lost the bet. The poker player, on the other hand, knows from the start that the money is often lost even when the hand is played perfectly. It sometimes takes the horseplayer a LIFETIME to learn this obvious lesson.

Track Collector
07-31-2018, 08:44 PM
I'm a strong believer in table talk which in this case was legal since even though there were 3 people the banter couldn't influence the $67.00 guy.

I should have engaged him conversation and found a way to let him know I might have bigger spades as well. I'm convinced he never even considered that.

Believe me. Even though I knew I was well ahead I wanted him to fold. I was happy winning what was already out there with a hand I couldn't improve.

IMO his call was VERY STUPID but not that surprising at this level of play.

Again, not crying, I'm a big boy.

Reminds me of the reason why I'm not really cut out to play poker for big $$$'s.

I have a tough time reconciling doing everything correctly and still losing quite often just because of the math.

Not sure if you remember me, but you were kind enough to get me complimentary passes for each day on my 4-day visit to Hollywood Park in late 2013. I needed this trip to add Hollywood Park to my visit list, as they closed for good just a few weeks later. Somewhere on an old laptop I have a nice picture of you in the booth calling a race. Back then Texas Holdem was completely off my radar.

As to doing the math, I have to confess that despite my current level of success, I need more off-the-table study.

Best wishes in your poker journey!

v j stauffer
08-01-2018, 08:16 PM
Not sure if you remember me, but you were kind enough to get me complimentary passes for each day on my 4-day visit to Hollywood Park in late 2013. I needed this trip to add Hollywood Park to my visit list, as they closed for good just a few weeks later. Somewhere on an old laptop I have a nice picture of you in the booth calling a race. Back then Texas Holdem was completely off my radar.

As to doing the math, I have to confess that despite my current level of success, I need more off-the-table study.

Best wishes in your poker journey!

Sure I remember you.

Glad you got to see Hollywood before we closed.

I'm not bitter about the closing. C'est La Vie :(:(:(:mad::mad::mad::eek::eek::eek::puke::puke::p uke:

v j stauffer
08-01-2018, 08:17 PM
Stick with it, and you'll get used to it...as I did. And you'll find that your newly-found "courage" will serve you well in horse-betting too.

It helps enormously if the gambler gets his start in poker first...IMO. That way...he realizes from the beginning that the player's "control" over the situation ends when the money leaves his hands. Once the money gets put in play...the control is relinquished to the hands of the gambling gods...and there is nothing more that the player can do.

The horseplayer loses a race, and returns to the past performances to see what he missed about the winner...and why he lost the bet. The poker player, on the other hand, knows from the start that the money is often lost even when the hand is played perfectly. It sometimes takes the horseplayer a LIFETIME to learn this obvious lesson.

SHARP POST:ThmbUp:

dilanesp
08-03-2018, 05:45 PM
I was playing 1-2 No Limit today at the Red Rock.

I think I played the hand correctly and just got unlucky but you tell me.

Start of the hand I had about $495.00

I was the big blind.

The two who ended up playing after the flop were a guy with $67.00 two seats to my left and the small blind who had about $425.00

5 way limped pot. I saw a flop with 2-5 off suit.

The flop comes A-3-4 two spades.

The small blind acts first and bets $18.00. While I'm thinking of what to do with my straight the guy to the left of me acts out of turn and puts his $67.00 all in.

I surmise the dealer can't answer the question I have so I call the floor and ask what plays or plays I can make that will force him to leave his $67.00 in the pot. I'm told that the only play I can make is to flat call the $18.00. So that's what I do.

After a short bit of thought the small blind calls the $67.00.

I shove for $477.00

The small blind thinks about it for 3 minutes or so and calls.

He has J-7 of spades

The 9 of spades comes on the turn and I lose.

Correct me if I'm wrong but his call was really bad for two reasons. One, we was only getting about 7/5 on his money.

Further compounded by the fact I don't think he ever considered that I might have better spades. And perhaps toughest to deal with is. After the question I asked the floor the small blind dude should have anticipated I was likely to shove based on the way I formed the question.

I know I was only about a 2-1 favorite so I'm not crying that I lost to a huge suck out.

What I hate is I think I'm correct in saying that his call was HORRIBLE:puke:

What say you guys?

Well, presumably he doesn't think his J and 7 are live outs. So he is, at best, drawing to 9 outs twice. If you have 2 pair or a set (both possible checking your option from the big blind), he has less equity in the pot. There's $113 in the pot. He is putting $405 into that pot-- a huge overbet-- to try to win $923. So he is getting 1.27 to 1 on his money.

A 9 out flush draw, with 2 cards to come, is about 38 percent to get there. Which means he needs to get at least 1.58 to 1 to justify it on pot equity.

And that, bear in mind, is before we factor in the fact that either of his opponents might have one of the following-- (1) 2 pair, reducing his draw to 8 outs, (2) a set, effectively reducing his draw to about 7.3 outs, (3) one of the three higher flush draws, making his draw dead, or (4) a straight with a redraw to a straight flush, reducing his draw by 0.1 or 0.2 outs. All of which reduce the EV of his hand.

Bottom line, that is an awful call by a player with extreme problems in the math deparatment. You want to play against him.

dilanesp
08-03-2018, 05:49 PM
I imagine only a tiny microscopic number of poker players would even be able to arrive at a close approximation of their required odds of calling while while trying to do in in real time and perhaps eventually having clock called.

If this is true then there are a whole bunch of people who shouldn't be playing any form of poker. This is a relatively easy math problem and should lead to a pretty clear fold. And there are shortcuts you can take (it isn't horrible to just treat a 9 out draw as 40 percent, an 8 out draw is 35 percent, and a 4 out draw as 20 percent, and half of those on a river decision- that's not perfect, but it is good enough for most calculations).

The difficult problems involve ranges. I.e., let's say that the pot was offering ostensibly sufficient odds for an 8 out draw in Vic's hand; now, you have to figure out what percentage of each player's range is higher flush draws. That's the fun part. :)

dilanesp
08-03-2018, 05:51 PM
I'm a strong believer in table talk which in this case was legal since even though there were 3 people the banter couldn't influence the $67.00 guy.

Technically, you aren't supposed to talk about your hand in a 3 way pot even if you have an all-in player. Causing a player to fold or call can vastly change the equity of the all-in player's hand.

v j stauffer
08-06-2018, 11:33 PM
Technically, you aren't supposed to talk about your hand in a 3 way pot even if you have an all-in player. Causing a player to fold or call can vastly change the equity of the all-in player's hand.

I asked the dealer. He said that since the 3rd player could not do anything else it was ok to speak to my opponent.

Didn't seem correct to me.

charm city whizz
08-07-2018, 03:22 AM
I asked the dealer. He said that since the 3rd player could not do anything else it was ok to speak to my opponent.

Didn't seem correct to me.



Hi Vic!!

Generally speaking when a player is all in and 2 other players remain talking isnít allowed because that player would be at a severe disadvantage, the talking could force a player to fold or call that would alter player whose all ins chances in the hand, going back into the poker room now gonna get a better explanation for you

Great job Sunday on tvg, really enjoyed you talking about long acres and didnít realize that Boeing bought that property, and didnít resize planes could fly without logos😂😂😂😂

dilanesp
08-08-2018, 02:12 PM
I asked the dealer. He said that since the 3rd player could not do anything else it was ok to speak to my opponent.

Didn't seem correct to me.

Dealers often don't know the rules. But definitely within your rights to follow the dealer's instructions.

proximity
08-13-2018, 01:16 AM
At least the Harpers Ferry cop didnít clip you $200 for speeding on the way out........my only ticket in 30 yrs......


we're lucky if my "gambler's car" could speed through there without the tires falling off. :rolleyes:

since you were a former leo i do think he shoulda let you off and like to think he is suffering the bad karma from his decision.

proximity
08-14-2018, 12:34 AM
was trying to boycott atlantic city for ALL of 2018 but got a few days off and my discipline simply broke down.

i take off late wednesday night and get a nice room in main bally's tower for three nights. thursday morning i'm up early and spend a nice day on the beach walking down to the ventnor pier. it's probably about a six mile round trip and the sand ends up beating up my heels pretty good and i'll spend the next three days and nights hobbling around casinos more than william h macy in the cooler.

there's no maria bello with me but maybe i'll get lucky anyhow and drag in a pot or two??

we open at bally's in the wild west poker room with some 2/6 limit action. i river four kings for a $175 high hand (net) but do little else in the game; dropping $100 and falling behind for the 2018 season.

game -100 (2/6 lim)
year -85 (1-1)
bonus 175 (175)

Track Collector
08-14-2018, 01:58 PM
was trying to boycott atlantic city for ALL of 2018 but got a few days off and my discipline simply broke down.

i take off late wednesday night and get a nice room in main bally's tower for three nights. thursday morning i'm up early and spend a nice day on the beach walking down to the ventnor pier. it's probably about a six mile round trip and the sand ends up beating up my heels pretty good and i'll spend the next three days and nights hobbling around casinos more than william h macy in the cooler.

there's no maria bello with me but maybe i'll get lucky anyhow and drag in a pot or two??

we open at bally's in the wild west poker room with some 2/6 limit action. i river four kings for a $175 high hand (net) but do little else in the game; dropping $100 and falling behind for the 2018 season.

game -100 (2/6 lim)
year -85 (1-1)
bonus 175 (175)


What is the reason for the Atlantic City boycott? And only 2 playing sessions in 2018....WOW. Must be pretty hard, given the amount of times played last year.

how cliche
08-14-2018, 06:25 PM
here's a hand from the most recent live game i played. feels like i misplayed this one.

you start w 10k. i kept accumulating a stack, but would get bad beat to knock me below chip average. kept on like that. build-bad beat-build again.

at 1k/2k/300a me and bb both have about 80k. there's 9 left. we're in the money and are co chip leaders. it folds to me on the button. holding ace 8 off i open to 5k. bb defends. 13,700 to the flop.

flop comes 4AJ all hearts of which i have none. bb leads 4k. feels like a blocking bet. probably has a worse pair and a flush draw. i can raise, but i'm only getting called by better or hands with a ton of equity. i call. 21,700 to the turn.

turn is my gin card. an offsuit 8.(4AJ8, three hearts). bb leads with another blocking bet of 7k. I call. 35,700 to the river.

river is 9 of hearts. (4AJ89, four hearts). bb checks. i check. he turns over 77 with the 7 of hearts to win.

i feel like the best line was to shove the turn. he maybe calls, gets there and i'm out, but it was the optimal play and i did it wrong. this game had glorious results for how cliche, but the process in this hand was flawed imo.

proximity
08-15-2018, 05:39 AM
back in exciting atlantic city where i hobble down to the wsop room in the wild west section of the bally's casino to kickoff day number two of our trip.

we're again in 2/6 limit company where i strike quickly with our old buddy KK taking down the very first hand of the game!!

when the cowboys come around again however, they're lassoed by J2 off suit and suddenly we're back in a struggle.

eventually the game erodes into a bunch of short stacks taking long walks and i get up before the blinds take away my first garden state win of the season.

game +4 (2/6 lim)
year -81 (2-1)
bonus 0 (175)

proximity
08-17-2018, 08:47 AM
i feel like the best line was to shove the turn. he maybe calls, gets there and i'm out, but it was the optimal play and i did it wrong. this game had glorious results for how cliche, but the process in this hand was flawed imo.

idk? i'm not a tournament man but it didn't seem like a good hand or position to go broke in? you read his blocking bets but he was still controlling the action with them. i probably would've just raised on the flop. congratulations on the win!!!

proximity
08-17-2018, 09:18 AM
ok poker fans we're back in atlantic city at bally's where the wild west has become a ghost town with abandoned "stacks" of ten to twenty white chips haunting the tables.

so we limp down the boardwalk to the tropicana where i jump on a slowly moving 2/6 list. when i reach the top of the list i tell the podium i'm on the top of the list but i'm running to the bathroom for 35 seconds. three tropicana staff members hear this but 35 seconds later i return to the room, another player is being seated, and my name is missing from the list!! :faint::faint::faint:

the tropicana manager apologizes and i accept their apology but it's just amazing the ridiculous stuff that happens to me on this tour..... and especially on this boardwalk where not that many trips ago a toilet backed up on me. maybe i should just never go to the bathroom in this town??

anyhow if i thought i waited a long time to get into a game, the wait to win a hand was much longer.... almost two hours until i break the ice with a set of buffaloes. overall though it's just another miserable game where i'm losing to absolute donkeys who are sneezing all over the cards and spilling drinks all over the table to boot. i'd probably have better luck at the adjacent boogie nights disco club where today's snookis and jwowws are shimmying to what sounds like deney terrio's 8-track collection. maybe next time?

game -82 (2/6)
year -163 (2-2)
bonus 0 (175)

proximity
08-31-2018, 02:24 AM
ok poker fans we are back in atlantic city for the final day of this ill advised poker getaway.

my feet, ego, and bankroll bruised; i opt to checkout of the hotel and head over to the borgata to see if a change of scenery will result in a change of luck?

earlier in the week sixers legend dr j kicked off ac sports betting at the borgata with a $5 bet on the eagles to repeat as super bowl champs. lines are long for this curiosity but i'm sure interest will quickly wane. in vegas you can usually just walk right up to the counter.

it's great that the borgata (unlike the boardwalk) was actually ready to quickly implement sports betting but it was sad to see that their low limit limit hold em has yielded to this ridiculous boardwalk culture of 2/4/6. i should go over to harrah's but it's been a long week and, hey, i'm here; so i order a coke and sit down.

54 in the big blind flops a flush, and a redraw to a straight flush with the 7 . with a $300 high hand i'm priced in when another heart falls on the turn. no luck on the river.

with two dimes in the pocket i three bet an ambitious AJ, flop a set, and hold off her gutterball.

that will be the last gutterball i hold off though and when QQ and JJ fall to gutshots in rapid succession, i decide to head back over to bally's for a general tso's at noodle village.

no beautiful girls in revealing costumes sit down to play but it's deja vu all over again at the blackjack tables on my way to the exit when i win and win and win and win..... just like on my halloween trip.

blackjack has saved me again in america's playground but it's no savior as i will soon be reminded on an even bigger stage.

thank you for reading!

game -100 (2/6 lim)
year -263 (2-3)
bonus 0 (175)

Track Collector
08-31-2018, 10:07 AM
After the Timonium races, I'll be at the Horseshoe for sure on 08/31 and 09/01, and maybe 09/02. (Hope I don't have to buy more chips than I have already previously saved up!).

I may have already mentioned it in another thread, but last week at the Horseshoe I had the misfortune of running my flopped trip jacks into villain's flopped trip kings, so I have some ground to try to make up.

davew
08-31-2018, 10:19 PM
I think my initial response and your response both contain errors. And, it would seem to be a bit complicated given that it is a 3-way pot with 1 player all-in.

I failed to consider that Vic and the villain have a side pot, and I agree that the villains chances are 37% in that one. And although minor, I also neglected the limpers/blinds who ended up folding.

Please note that before going any further, Vic starts the hand with $70 more than the villain.

The villain's all-in call of Vic was for 425 - 67 (calling the all-in of the first player) = 358.

Against Vic in the side pot, the villain is risking 358 to win Vic's 358. (The other 67 Vic put in went to the main pot where he has an approximate chance of winning 3-way of .379 and the villain's chance is .261).

So against Vic, he needs to win 50% of the time where his estimated chances are 37%. Not Good! (In hindsight), although I imagine only a tiny microscopic number of poker players would even be able to arrive at a close approximation of their required odds of calling while while trying to do in in real time and perhaps eventually having clock called.


...

you forgot to add the main pot before his call

$10 preflop, $18 +$18 + $67 shove + $45 more call + shove ($45 more call) to main pot $211

vics all-in is his effective stack $358


villain is risking his last $358 to scoop $927 if he wins all and they were figuring a flush would do it. Their odds improve if they felt $67 all-in could have done that with an A(high card,3,4), as an AA would not limped would they?

villians' equity does not justify call, but it is not terribly far off. (and $69 of that main pot was his :D)


Poker is a lot like handicapping, no one is always right and everyone has their own way of 'figuring things out'.

proximity
09-05-2018, 01:50 AM
ok poker fans it's time once again for our annual VEGAS VACATION and united flight 461 from dulles is in the air.

usually i take a football magazine to read on the plane but these 2018 colts are just too depressing. is this group really favored over cincinnati?? :confused: sure pagano's gone and luck is back under center but how is this defense going to stop ANYONE?

instead i take a crossword magazine and my experience as a gambler both helps me and hurts me on the puzzles.

hurts: i immediately pencil in "steph" for a five letter word for "animal trainer beatty." (of course the "y" indicates that the answer is clyde)

helps: i never know who directs movies but "norma rae director martin" has to be "ritt" which i only know from wearing out jerry okuneff's handicapping expo 93 tape (turning professional(!!!)) on my hundreds of mid 90s trips to mid -atlantic tracks and otbs.

"how can you just sit there race after race and not bet?" mr okuneff asked director ritt..... who POUNDED the table and exclaimed "I REFUSE TO BE A FOOL!!"

it's a vacation but hopefully i'll be able to show at least some fraction of that discipline here in vegas...... but first i'll need a room.

"we don't have a reservation for any proximity," says a nice young woman when i finally reach the counter (the diamond lounge is closed for the night).

"but i come to bally's every year to go to the blu pool and write important poker posts on paceadvantage.com" i plead.

five minutes later she finds proximity and the gambling is underway!!

no poker tonight but i grind out $6 profit on the slots over at the mirage; the same place where jerry okuneff and our other handicapping heros gathered a quarter century ago and made those tapes that kept us company on so many lonely trips to and from our tracks.

game (none)
trip ----- (0-0)

Track Collector
09-06-2018, 11:18 AM
Over the past 2 extended weekends I enjoy my annual pilgrimage to the races at the Timonium Fair, and when all is said and done, I end up nicely on the positive side.

I also did something different and made made just about all days a racing/poker doubleheader with the Horseshoe Casino. (Labor Day Monday was racing only, as the wife usually accompanies me that day, so I wisely did not ask her to pass 5-6 hours time at the Horseshoe while I played poker!). :)

Seems I am in somewhat of a slump, and the 6 sessions of Texas Holdem at the Horseshoe resulted in -$467. Since peaking at +$13.12 (after 216 playing hours), my last 18 playing sessions have seen my hourly rate fall to +$6.97. Some is due to to unfavorable variance, but I know I am making more errors. Hopefully some of this can be fixed by a re-dedication to more study. Overall though, I am pretty happy given I have never had a winning year in my 3-previous years of playing Texas Holdem, although the current year is far from being in the books.

Changing gears............I am really looking forward to proximity's reports from Las Vegas. He really has a nice flair for writing, and I'm sure many here are rooting for your success. Regular daily reports would be great, but I understand how difficult that will be as you focus on your poker AND enjoying the rest of your vacation. Have a great time!!!

proximity
09-07-2018, 03:35 AM
ok poker fans we are back in exciting las vegas for day number two of the action!!

we kickoff the gambling with aaron nola and the phillies as underdogs against the powerful redsox. i venture over to the pink bird (flamingo) to try to enjoy some blackjack while watching the game out of the corner of my eye. the game goes on forever. the blackjack, unfortunately does not as i'm pounded without mercy from the opening card. quickly down almost $300 i wave the white flag. remember.... blackjack is never the answer.

i take a break from the gambling and walk around the strip some. nola has indeed shut down the redsox but he gets no help from the offense and boston ties the game when herrera butchers a play in center. finally in the 13th boston puts me out of my misery and i venture back over to the pink bird to kick off the poker action with some 2/4 limit.

these players are actually pretty competitive for the flamingo. one guy even looks like james caan. i was at the bathroom during this hand but here is some game footage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZlm1ledK-I

free upvote to anyone who knows what that is at 2:10. :)

i'm not doing a lot but eventually flop trip dimes with T8 from the big blind. i get a lot of action on the flop and still do when the case dime falls on the turn!!

not the best day overall but at least a positive start to the poker!!

game +39 (flamingo 2/4)
trip +39 (1-0)

Red Knave
09-08-2018, 11:06 AM
free upvote to anyone who knows what that is at 2:10. :)I know, I know ... but which float were you under?
Also, good timing on the break. ;)

proximity
09-11-2018, 05:11 AM
ok poker fans we are back in amazing las vegas for day number three of the excitement and we start off with a nice walk up to the stratosphere......and beyond, finally stopping at i think 4th street? (there was a big cluster of palm trees and another road kinda split off to the left?) i'm not sure how far i had to go yet to get to this "downtown" section but this was far enough so i turned around so i could catch some relaxation back at blu pool.

later that evening i'd return to the pink bird for some more 2/4 action. i fall behind early after several suited big cards miss their flops completely but the tide soon changes and this turns into an excellent game.

kk goes 3-0 with two sets and i get winning boats with jj, 66, and qj as well.

after the contest i decide to celebrate by trying white castle (casino royale) for the first time and this is the only negative of the day. fortunately i only order a single slider but when i unwrap this thing halfway down the strip it doesn't even look like they hardly cooked it and i just toss it in the trash.

win some, lose some!!

game +205 (2/4 flamingo)
trip +244 (2-0)

Red Knave
09-12-2018, 02:01 PM
we start off with a nice walk up to the stratosphere......and beyond, finally stopping at i think 4th street? (there was a big cluster of palm trees and another road kinda split off to the left?)

Oh and you were so close to the Little White Chapel too!
It's still a 30 minute walk from there to downtown and the scenery gets so much worse that you actually made a good call turning around. Take the bus next time. Fremont St. is worth the visit but don't believe the hype about the casinos being 'easier' there, not true.
Another thing to try on the way there http://www.heartattackgrill.com . :headbanger:

proximity
09-13-2018, 02:41 PM
Oh and you were so close to the Little White Chapel too!
It's still a 30 minute walk from there to downtown and the scenery gets so much worse that you actually made a good call turning around. Take the bus next time. Fremont St. is worth the visit but don't believe the hype about the casinos being 'easier' there, not true.
Another thing to try on the way there http://www.heartattackgrill.com . :headbanger:

thanks for the tip!

later in the trip someone recommended one of those taco places on the way to stratosphere too but i can't remember which one lol.

proximity
09-13-2018, 03:28 PM
ok poker fans we are back in las vegas for day number four of the excitement and the action kicks off at blu pool where we meet the tan, tone, tattooed, and titillating tiffany from sacramento.

tiffany is bored with vegas, miami, paris, dallas, and several other important cities where she knows all the club promoters.

i'm no travel agent but sensing she possibly needs a change of pace i scare her off by suggesting......... grantville, and she looked as good going as she did coming.

over at the mirage they are having a big drawing and giving out tickets for winning hands that are straights or better.

one woman calls in from the parking garage (she's got the mercedes benz) and locks up the one seat for this new 3/6 game. when she arrives though she starts to unrack in the six before the dealer reminds her that they've locked up the one.

over in the one seat she wins a $200 high hand almost immediately before ultimately winning the $1300 drawing for a quick $1500 in bonuses.

i don't get a single ticket but do grind out a $53 win in the game.

thank you for reading!

game plus 53 (mirage 3/6)
trip plus 297 (3-0)

Track Collector
09-16-2018, 11:22 PM
Was playing at the Charles Town races on Saturday and was pleased to run into Charm City Whiz! Was only able to speak with him very briefly though.

I hope he takes time out of his busy schedule and posts on here again once and a while.

proximity
09-18-2018, 05:26 AM
Was playing at the Charles Town races on Saturday and was pleased to run into Charm City Whiz! Was only able to speak with him very briefly though.

he wasn't getting an owner's license was he?? :)

proximity
09-18-2018, 05:41 AM
ok poker fans we are back in exciting LAS VEGAS for day number five of our adventure where the poker takes us back to the cheap seats of 2/4 at the pink bird.

I get off to a slow start at this table of happy players but my luck changes when a controversial Kenyan princess named Mumbai (?) enters the contest to my left.

earlier I noticed a big pile (not stack) of random chips in front of Mumbai at a no-limit table although she seemed to leave the room empty handed before returning to join us low rollers at 2/4.

she liked to raise everything which helps when I have AA and flop a set!

unfortunately this time her "pile" only consists of like $25 though. :bang:

later AKs flops an ace, turns a four flush, and rivers a king to finish the job.

as i'm leaving the room Mumbai's involved in another no-limit controversy but outside it's quiet on the strip.

game plus 30 (2/4 flamingo)
trip plus 327 (4-0)

Track Collector
09-18-2018, 04:25 PM
he wasn't getting an owner's license was he?? :)

Probably not needed. His 4-Time Timonium "Fan of the Day" awards should do the trick.

Glad to see positive financial results so far on your trip. Hope it continues!

Hope you were able to watch your Colts bring my Redskins back down to their usual (low) level.