Arizona (from the Racing side) [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

fast4522

12-29-2017, 10:00 PM

Never a big fan, but I would think McCain has bigger problems right now than jealousy of Trump. His "forever" might not be too long.

I agree with you, after 60 its one foot on the banana peel. Whatever feelings he had about the President are stupid. The man is blessed with having his mother alive at 105 years of age, the man has to look at the prospect of spending time with his family.

FantasticDan

12-29-2017, 10:52 PM

...holding some sort of toy or doll.
Why are you mocking a man who’s in the last stages of dying of brain cancer?

WTF is wrong with you?

PaceAdvantage

12-29-2017, 11:11 PM

Why are you mocking a man who’s in the last stages of dying of brain cancer?

WTF is wrong with you?If McCain were a pro-Trumpeter, you'd never have posted the above admonishment to Tom.

HalvOnHorseracing

12-29-2017, 11:44 PM

...holding some sort of toy or doll.

It's a Mr. Potato Head. I think it's supposed to be an ironic picture

FantasticDan

12-30-2017, 12:32 AM

If McCain were a pro-Trumpeter, you'd never have posted the above admonishment to Tom.
Huh? McCain has opposed Trump on some things, supported him on others. Just like he did with previous administrations.

Making fun of McCain at this point is in horribly bad taste. Even in the context of knowing there’s a miserable slug doing it, and he shouldn’t be taken seriously, it still sucks. :ThmbDown:

boxcar

12-30-2017, 08:01 AM

Tom vociferously supported Roy Moore but finds John McCain insufferable.

That’s really the only data point anyone needs.

I’m hoping for a series of dislikes from him on my reputation. I would wear them as badges of honor.

Yes, McCain is insufferable because he's an egotistical, self-serving, power-hungry professional politician who could care less about the people of this country. The McCains of this world are a very big part of this nation's political problems. :ThmbDown::ThmbDown:

elysiantraveller

12-30-2017, 09:30 AM

I'm of the opinion that regardless of their political and/or personal beliefs there are some people whose devotion to country can't be questioned.

John McCain would be one of those.

The late Daniel Inouye would be an example of one on the left.

Tom

12-30-2017, 04:57 PM

Why are you mocking a man who’s in the last stages of dying of brain cancer?

WTF is wrong with you?

I wasn't mocking his illness, just his being a total jerk.
But of course, you always know everything.
Truth is, you seldom know spit.

JustRalph

12-30-2017, 05:14 PM

McCain gave no Fuks about anything but getting re-elected. He is a political windmill.

woodtoo

12-30-2017, 09:18 PM

McStain is a low life traitor,IMHO.:rip:

Clocker

12-30-2017, 09:40 PM

McStain is a low life traitor,IMHO.:rip:

Whatever you think of McCain as a politician, mediocre at best in my opinion, the term traitor is disgusting given his military service.

woodtoo

12-31-2017, 10:45 AM

Whatever you think of McCain as a politician, mediocre at best in my opinion, the term traitor is disgusting given his military service.

His military record is what puts the stain on McCain:puke: "is that him singing"

How many of his countrymen died on his shifts? 100's

Marshall Bennett

12-31-2017, 12:27 PM

His military record is what puts the stain on McCain:puke: "is that him singing"

How many of his countrymen died on his shifts? 100's
His military service has been somewhat exaggerated to the point of being termed a war hero. He liked to party a lot. He was considered a reckless fighter pilot. A few of his missions resulted in him crashing by his own hands. He was captured and tortured by the Viet Cong.
Most would consider his military career less than remarkable, but we're talking about John McCain.

Clocker

12-31-2017, 01:29 PM

His military service has been somewhat exaggerated to the point of being termed a war hero. He liked to party a lot. He was considered a reckless fighter pilot. A few of his missions resulted in him crashing by his own hands. He was captured and tortured by the Viet Cong.
Most would consider his military career less than remarkable, but we're talking about John McCain.
None of which makes him a traitor, or makes any sense out of the accusation that he was responsible for the death of hundreds of Americans.

woodtoo

12-31-2017, 02:58 PM

His wet-start on the Forrestal killed 167 shipmates and he was transferred to the
USS Oriskany before the dead were all counted

This was before the "songbird" accusations.

elysiantraveller

12-31-2017, 03:15 PM

His wet-start on the Forrestal killed 167 shipmates and he was transferred to the
USS Oriskany before the dead were all counted

This was before the "songbird" accusations.

Fake news.

woodtoo

12-31-2017, 03:23 PM

Like him or lump him. Your choice.

elysiantraveller

12-31-2017, 03:30 PM

Like him or lump him. Your choice.

You accused him of killing his fellow servicemen by believing some BS political propaganda. There are tons of videos of what happened on the Forrestal and this is a blatant lie that your perpetuating.

Clocker

12-31-2017, 03:59 PM

Fake news.

As is the 5 plane crashes story.

https://www.factcheck.org/2008/09/mccains-plane-crashes/

There was no "wet start". The fire was caused by an electrical surge that launched a rocket from a plane behind McClain.

https://www.snopes.com/john-mccain-fire-uss-forrestal/

Clocker

12-31-2017, 04:04 PM

Like him or lump him. Your choice.

I don't like him or lump him, and that's based on truth, not moronic rumors. He is no better or worse than most of the political hacks in Congress. His voters are the ones to judge him, and they keep sending him back to the Senate.

Clocker

12-31-2017, 04:19 PM

This was before the "songbird" accusations.
More fake news, political dirty tricks put out during a campaign.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/jan/17/vietnam-veterans-against-john-mccain/no-evidence-mccain-was-a-traitor/

elysiantraveller

12-31-2017, 04:22 PM

Yup.

The Forrestal is plain as day what happened. McCain and his wingman's plane got hit by a rocket on a F4 that malfunctioned and their ordinance cooked off.

Marshall Bennett

12-31-2017, 04:30 PM

jocko699

12-31-2017, 05:04 PM

His wet-start on the Forrestal killed 167 shipmates and he was transferred to the
USS Oriskany before the dead were all counted

This was before the "songbird" accusations.

What branch and year's did you serve woodtoo and where?

Thanks

Clocker

12-31-2017, 05:11 PM

What branch and year's did you serve woodtoo and where?

Thanks
The Mounties in the Great White North. :p

Ocala Mike

12-31-2017, 06:43 PM

Most would consider his military career less than remarkable

Well, of course, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny like Cadet Trump's career at that military academy where he learned enough military science to be able to know more than every general officer.

elysiantraveller

12-31-2017, 08:35 PM

Whatever. He and Romney both refused to recognize Trump as a valid candidate, trashing him in the process. They as well as hung their support with Hillary in doing so.
I know no have an ounce of respect for either, and yes both are traitors to their party. Fake news, bullshit, or whatever you call it they deserve it for being complete unreliable assholes. :ThmbDown:

If one were to look at Republicanism from 1980-2012 and it's platform. Trump doesn't fit it. Which would also explain why he was a registered democrat for most of his adult life.

I didn't abstain from voting for Trump because I'm a liberal or Hillary supporter. I did it because I disagree with his populist big government solution to problems, his views on trade and commerce, and his naivete on certain foreign policy issues. Romney and McCain are the same way.

Clocker

12-31-2017, 08:44 PM

I did it because I disagree with his populist big government solution to problems

This is why I voted for neither in 2016. Both ran on the platform that their version of government was the solution to our problems. As Reagan said, and found out he couldn't fix it, government isn't the solution to our problem, government is the problem.

fast4522

12-31-2017, 11:40 PM

If one were to look at Republicanism from 1980-2012 and it's platform. Trump doesn't fit it. Which would also explain why he was a registered democrat for most of his adult life.

I didn't abstain from voting for Trump because I'm a liberal or Hillary supporter. I did it because I disagree with his populist big government solution to problems, his views on trade and commerce, and his naivete on certain foreign policy issues. Romney and McCain are the same way.

The platform means zero, absolutely nothing when the powerful get entrenched and cut deals to screw the middle class. Face up to the fact that it is only about picking winners and losers. If more of the middle class fall into the winners category but you get screwed it becomes your turn. It is all about the many and not the few, say what ever you like but jobs for the many outweigh the stupid bullshit of the last twenty years.

Marshall Bennett

01-01-2018, 07:38 AM

The platform means zero, absolutely nothing when the powerful get entrenched and cut deals to screw the middle class. Face up to the fact that it is only about picking winners and losers. If more of the middle class fall into the winners category but you get screwed it becomes your turn. It is all about the many and not the few, say what ever you like but jobs for the many outweigh the stupid bullshit of the last twenty years.
You pretty much nailed it. Also puts a crimp on what's open for discussion. A great military career doesn't equate to great leadership. Much has to do with how you feel about the man as an individual. My contention is that he denounced Trump therefore was a friend of Hillary. Its as simple as that. But yes, at the end of the day does it really matter? He got elected anyway so I'm happy at day's end. :)

elysiantraveller

01-01-2018, 11:56 AM

The platform means zero, absolutely nothing when the powerful get entrenched and cut deals to screw the middle class. Face up to the fact that it is only about picking winners and losers. If more of the middle class fall into the winners category but you get screwed it becomes your turn. It is all about the many and not the few, say what ever you like but jobs for the many outweigh the stupid bullshit of the last twenty years.

I'm for smaller less economically intrusive government.

I'm for open trade, markets, and mobility.

I'm for a realpolitik and pragmatic approach to foreign policy.

Trump doesn't espouse those beliefs so he isn't the candidate for me and a lot of other GOP voters/officials. He does some things I agree with but on 70-80% of the issues he has presented an opinion I disagree with. Like I said, it's no surprise, he was a Democrat most his life.

You are attempting to portray this as some recent classist struggle. There has always been class struggles and there always will be. Trump is merely a reactionary outcome from the group that's used to being in control of America feeling like it's been on the short end for a bit. Hence, populist movement.

Fager Fan

01-01-2018, 12:19 PM

Why are you mocking a man who’s in the last stages of dying of brain cancer?

WTF is wrong with you?

If that was true, why's he still in the Senate?

Death comes for us all. It doesn't make us immune from criticism of our mistakes or our sins leading up to it.

FantasticDan

01-01-2018, 03:03 PM

If that was true, why's he still in the Senate?

Why are you asking me? Is there some requirement that members of Congress who are battling terminal illnesses have to resign?

Death comes for us all. It doesn't make us immune from criticism of our mistakes or our sins leading up to it.
Except there wasn't any "criticism", just cold-hearted mockery. And it should also be noted that much of the criticism that came later in this turd of a thread were shown to have as much basis in fact as Santa Claus.

fast4522

01-01-2018, 08:25 PM

I'm for smaller less economically intrusive government.
I'm for open trade, markets, and mobility.
I'm for a realpolitik and pragmatic approach to foreign policy.

Trump doesn't espouse those beliefs so he isn't the candidate for me and a lot of other GOP voters/officials. He does some things I agree with but on 70-80% of the issues he has presented an opinion I disagree with. Like I said, it's no surprise, he was a Democrat most his life.

You are attempting to portray this as some recent classist struggle. There has always been class struggles and there always will be. Trump is merely a reactionary outcome from the group that's used to being in control of America feeling like it's been on the short end for a bit. Hence, populist movement.

You have to get over yourself, the vast majority want jobs in this country. Most people would prefer a $1000 tariff on BMW, Volvo, Mercedes and the whole lot of cars made outside these United States. Most feel anyone who can afford a $ 70K car can certainly pay more. Times have changed and the voting majority has changed with the times. I am not saying that I always espoused this, but I am saying it hollowed out jobs inside America. Others can play with currency and manipulate those who sell inside their country favorably, the same will occur here. Much of what you and others hear and negatively espouse against is just the start of what is something that is living that none of us actually know what the final deal will be. It is living because it is being formulated to new working policy. The Democrat of JFK is almost dead as a door nail, today's Democrat are closer to communist and socialist than they are anything else. Their goal is to spend it before it gets printed. Facts are Trump was a JFK type Democrat for most of his life, JFK was more of a capitalist than any Democrat can claim to be.

I fully expect you to maintain your track record being wrong and pissed for a number of years, heck I was pissed all eight years of that jackal who is writing books now.

elysiantraveller

01-01-2018, 09:16 PM

...

I don't know what point your even trying to make other than talk shit. All I did was explain why I didnt vote for Trump and why lots of conservatives didn't. Repeating Trump's platform doesn't change that I disagree with it. I know why you voted for him and didn't need the that post to explain it.

We disagree.

Afleet

01-01-2018, 10:17 PM

I don't think a lot of thinking goes on in Arizona.....just look at who they keep electing!

there is a special place in hell for mcstain

fast4522

01-01-2018, 10:45 PM

I don't know what point your even trying to make other than talk shit. All I did was explain why I didnt vote for Trump and why lots of conservatives didn't. Repeating Trump's platform doesn't change that I disagree with it. I know why you voted for him and didn't need the that post to explain it.

We disagree.

You can NOT get elected on those points you mentioned anymore, that dog will no longer hunt. Things have changed. The new tax reform has been signed into law and China is leading the charge to counter it, Europe is shitting bricks because of our new tax structure. Do not pretend things can go back to what you like, not going to happen.

elysiantraveller

01-01-2018, 11:39 PM

You can NOT get elected on those points you mentioned anymore, that dog will no longer hunt. Things have changed. The new tax reform has been signed into law and China is leading the charge to counter it, Europe is shitting bricks because of our new tax structure. Do not pretend things can go back to what you like, not going to happen.

Why do China or Europe give a shit what I pay in taxes?

Source?

Smaller government, more economic freedom, and realpolitik are out the window now?

fast4522

01-01-2018, 11:58 PM

Why do China or Europe give a shit what I pay in taxes?

Source?

Smaller government, more economic freedom, and realpolitik are out the window now?

https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/12/28/china-offers-tax-breaks-to-counter-us-tax-cuts/

Fager Fan

01-01-2018, 11:59 PM

Why are you asking me? Is there some requirement that members of Congress who are battling terminal illnesses have to resign?

You're the one who said he's in the last stages of dying of brain cancer. If he is, then damn straight he should resign. Even if he doesn't think he owes it to his family to spend that time with them, he owes it to the country to resign.

Except there wasn't any "criticism", just cold-hearted mockery. And it should also be noted that much of the criticism that came later in this turd of a thread were shown to have as much basis in fact as Santa Claus.

Just because McCain was a POW doesn't make him off limits from criticism, nor does him being ill.

Clocker

01-02-2018, 12:01 AM

Why do China or Europe give a shit what I pay in taxes?

Source?

Smaller government, more economic freedom, and realpolitik are out the window now?

Its not your taxes they are worried about. Europeans, especially the Germans, are worried that the changes to corporate taxes, including changing rules for capital asset write-offs, will cause a shift in investment and jobs from Europe to the US.

elysiantraveller

01-02-2018, 12:16 AM

Its not your taxes they are worried about. Europeans, especially the Germans, are worried that the changes to corporate taxes, including changing rules for capital asset write-offs, will cause a shift in investment and jobs from Europe to the US.

Oh! He meant the Corporate taxes!?!?

The ones the republicans have been trying to lower and even democrats have admitted are too high for about 2 decades now? ;)

Thank goodness we had Trump to set the record straight on those...

elysiantraveller

01-02-2018, 12:18 AM

https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/12/28/china-offers-tax-breaks-to-counter-us-tax-cuts/

Bud, even Obama admitted the Corporate Tax Rate was too high...

This is hardly something new like you are implying...

Clocker

01-02-2018, 12:27 AM

Bud, even Obama admitted the Corporate Tax Rate was too high...

And really busted his butt trying to get the GOP controlled Congress to cut it. :rolleyes:

davew

01-02-2018, 12:34 AM

Bud, even Obama admitted the Corporate Tax Rate was too high...

This is hardly something new like you are implying...

then why didn't he issue an 'executive order' to lower them?

elysiantraveller

01-02-2018, 12:44 AM

And really busted his butt trying to get the GOP controlled Congress to cut it. :rolleyes:

Never said he did but lowering them isn't a Trumpian idea in the least. He did campaign on it in 2012 though. I don't think either president would really like their list of failed campaign promises at the moment.

Clocker

01-02-2018, 01:00 AM

Never said he did but lowering them isn't a Trumpian idea in the least.

I was being facetious. Obama did propose a cut in the corporate tax rate, but his plan included expanding the tax base by reducing business deductions and increasing taxable foreign income, so that the changes would essentially be a revenue neutral.

Ocala Mike

01-02-2018, 08:49 AM

"Revenue neutrality" - what an archaic concept. Glad it's now passe and neither political party gives a crap about the deficit any more.

Tom

01-02-2018, 09:39 AM

I was being facetious. Obama did propose a cut in the corporate tax rate, but his plan included expanding the tax base by reducing business deductions and increasing taxable foreign income, so that the changes would essentially be a revenue neutral.

The Kenyan Shell Game!

Clocker

01-02-2018, 10:45 AM

"Revenue neutrality" - what an archaic concept. Glad it's now passe and neither political party gives a crap about the deficit any more.

According to the Democrats, we don't have a spending problem, we have a "pay-for" problem.

According to the Republicans, if the Democrats propose a 10% increase in spending next year and the Republicans limit it to 5%, that is a spending cut.

It's the old Potomac Two-Step. Two steps back, then one step forward, and call it progress.