No more account wagering in Arizona, again?

[GMB@BP]

Not sure if this is just xpressbet but I just got a account closure notice from them saying turf paradise no longer has agreements for account wagering which makes it illegal.

If this is across all platforms...I am DONE.

We’re sorry to inform you that, beginning January 8, 2018, Arizona residents will no longer be allowed to bet with account wagering providers, including DRF Bets. This is a result of Turf Paradise’s decision not to extend its account wagering agreements, making account wagering illegal for Arizona customers.

[thespaah]

Not sure if this is just xpressbet but I just got a account closure notice from them saying turf paradise no longer has agreements for account wagering which makes it illegal.

If this is across all platforms...I am DONE.

We’re sorry to inform you that, beginning January 8, 2018, Arizona residents will no longer be allowed to bet with account wagering providers, including DRF Bets. This is a result of Turf Paradise’s decision not to extend its account wagering agreements, making account wagering illegal for Arizona customers.

What in Sam Hill was the Arizona legislature thinking about when they wrote and passed the law permitting ADW wagering?
To give one business entity that much power over the entire horse racing wagering population is absurd.
Screw Turf Paradise. Those who use ADWs should be marching on the state capitol with pitchforks and swords in hand.

[GMB@BP]

What in Sam Hill was the Arizona legislature thinking about when they wrote and passed the law permitting ADW wagering?
To give one business entity that much power over the entire horse racing wagering population is absurd.
Screw Turf Paradise. Those who use ADWs should be marching on the state capitol with pitchforks and swords in hand.

I dont know whats going on, trying to get to the bottom of it. I would imagine it may be a power play to use one provider that they have a deal with.

[thespaah]

I dont know whats going on, trying to get to the bottom of it. I would imagine it may be a power play to use one provider that they have a deal with.

When will this industry, wagering on horse racing. wise up. A few years ago when the horsemen refused to deal with Colonial Downs in good faith, they were successful in shutting down horse racing in the entire state. Included were all ADW accounts and all of the Virginia OTB sites.
And why did they do this? One reason I read was the horsemen from Maryland were upset there was a gap created in the Maryland schedule to accommodate the Colonial meeting. The other was the horsemen wanted bigger purses. The money was not there. So instead of 3/4's a loaf, they got no loaf.
So they walked. Screwed the fans and the track's operators. Plus there was some development slated for the area surrounding the track property.
Horsemen have far too much clout. Ideally, there should be a balance of interest between the track management, horsemen and of course US

[Tom]

Boycott Turf Paradise - if they don't care about the bettor, why should we care about them? Shut 'em down.

[Clocker]

There is a notice on the TuP web site about this. It says that Arizona residents will no longer be able to use Phone Betting for TuP racing. Not sure what this means, but it appears that Arizona residents do not have the same ADW access as most other states.

Due to strict gaming regulations, we were never able to offer Advanced Deposit Wagering (ADW) the way you the customer deserved: with full Internet accesshttp://www.turfparadise.com/phone-bet-cancel.html

I don't know how much of TuP's handle comes from ADWs. Picking a day at random, on Monday, Dec. 11, the on-track handle was $24K and the off-track was just over a million.

[GMB@BP]

Yea, I am pretty much done with this sport other than rooting for my friends who are still involved in the day to day.

I will play the money I have in my contest sites, if they can even exist anymore. If I run out then I am done.

Sad that it has come to this, as many people here know I have been a long and ardent supporter of racing.

[Clocker]

It looks like existing ADW betting for Arizona residents is only over the phone, and cannot be done online.

Any AZ residents here?

From the DRF in 2014:

Gov. Jan Brewer of Arizona has signed a bill that allows telephone betting on horse and dog racing in Arizona, opening the state up to account wagering seven years after Arizona’s legislature cracked down on the practice.


The bill was passed overwhelmingly by the legislature several weeks ago, but not before stripping out language that would have allowed residents to place bets over the Internet. Nevertheless, the bill brings Arizona into the modern age of horse racing, where account wagering has been the only growing source of betting on races for the past decade.
http://www.drf.com/news/arizona-bill-allows-account-wagering

[GMB@BP]

It looks like existing ADW betting for Arizona residents is only over the phone, and cannot be done online.

Any AZ residents here?

From the DRF in 2014:

http://www.drf.com/news/arizona-bill-allows-account-wagering

I am, thought that was clear.

Yes, you have to call in, which is not ideal but once you get the hang of it you can do it in a minute or two.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Six months ago I quit coffee.

Two months ago I quit smoking.

Guess what else I have no problem quitting completely?

****ing morons.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...

Yes, you have to call in, which is not ideal but once you get the hang of it you can do it in a minute or two.

**** that it was quintessential Turf Paradise implementation: the one way to screw it up. Yeah, let's make it so that a ten second wagering transaction requires you to push 500,000,000,000,000 buttons or talk to Gomer Pyle's significant other and hope you don't get shut out. It was okay if you were playing $20 win and a $5 exacta and a completely unnecessary obstacle to getting wagers in and getting them in on time the rest of the time.

But holy **** that hardly means revert back to believing that you are putting on such a great show with Robertino winning four a day at 2-5 in six horse fields that people will get up and haul off to the shitty OTB or the track in
typical sabotage in the form of absurd rationalization.

[GMB@BP]

**** that it was quintessential Turf Paradise implementation: the one way to screw it up. Yeah, let's make it so that a ten second wagering transaction requires you to push 500,000,000,000,000 buttons or talk to Gomer Pyle's significant other and hope you don't get shut out. It was okay if you were playing $20 win and a $5 exacta and a completely unnecessary obstacle to getting wagers in and getting them in on time the rest of the time.

But holy **** that hardly means revert back to believing that you are putting on such a great show with Robertino winning four a day at 2-5 in six horse fields that people will get up and haul off to the shitty OTB or the track in
typical sabotage in the form of absurd rationalization.

lol. cant argue there my friend.

I really dont have time for OTB's. They were ok back in the day, and work for the retired person but as a working professional its just not in the cards.

Its mind boggling this is the direction they have chosen. Seems like they would like to renegotiate this with the legislature.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...
Its mind boggling this is the direction they have chosen. ...

I wish that I could agree. There were a few directions that made sense so you knew those were out.

[cj]

lol. cant argue there my friend.

I really dont have time for OTB's. They were ok back in the day, and work for the retired person but as a working professional its just not in the cards.

Its mind boggling this is the direction they have chosen. Seems like they would like to renegotiate this with the legislature.

I actually was in an OTB in Arizona once. It was not a very nice place. I'd never go back.

[Tom]

NNevertheless, the bill brings Arizona into the modern age of horse racing, evertheless, the bill brings Arizona into the modern age of horse racing,

Who writes this stuff? :pound::pound:

[AstrosFan]

What was the verdict of this story from 2000 regarding the TuP owner

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/196233/turf-paradise-owner-reportedly-being-investigated

[GMB@BP]

So a number of people voiced their frustration on their Twitter page, they deleted all the tweets off their page...show some backbone man.

[thespaah]

**** that it was quintessential Turf Paradise implementation: the one way to screw it up. Yeah, let's make it so that a ten second wagering transaction requires you to push 500,000,000,000,000 buttons or talk to Gomer Pyle's significant other and hope you don't get shut out. It was okay if you were playing $20 win and a $5 exacta and a completely unnecessary obstacle to getting wagers in and getting them in on time the rest of the time.

But holy **** that hardly means revert back to believing that you are putting on such a great show with Robertino winning four a day at 2-5 in six horse fields that people will get up and haul off to the shitty OTB or the track in
typical sabotage in the form of absurd rationalization.

I have no idea what could possibly go through the mind of a politician that would cause one or more to remove on line as part of account wagering. What possible difference does it make to them? On the surface, why would it matter the method of placing a wager.
Unless of course this is Turf Paradise talking/lobbying the state legislature?. Their idiot management believing that if it wagering off track is made inconvenient, then bettors will go to the track. Sort of like what Texas did?

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Almost all of this focuses squarely on the tribal casinos and the power the state granted them when the casinos came around. The cliff notes version is that if the state allowed any sort of "competition" to the tribal casinos they would have a drastic change in their taxes they pay to the state. They view allowing ADW wagering as a threat, and as a result, it will not be getting anywhere soon.

I dealt with it personally, Arizona politics is a mess and the OTB systems there are miserable. Basically a couple terminals in bars or restaurants, no one has a clue about anything going on.

Funny thing is, phone wagering is very costly to the track based on who the provider is. My guess is they are losing money with the venture. Imagine, each phone call costing something like $1.60, with no minimum for a wager and I doubt they would have the foresight to seek volume breaks.

So, a customer would have to place a $20 bet at a minimum each time they called just to basically break even. :eek:

[WP1981]

I am an AZ resident and the whole thing is so strange. I frequent a few dumpy OTB's to place a few wagers, but other than that 90%+ I place offshore. I tried the whole adw thing again and got sick of calling in, they would also let you use an app if the adw offered one like TVG and TS do.

In Pima county (Tucson) you were not allowed to have an adw account period since they brought it back. It is my understanding this was due to some agreement with Tucson Greyhound Park.

I think monmouthparkjoe is correct that this has to do with the tribes rather than TuP itself. Although the weird Pima rule makes me think they could screw it up even without that barrier.

As I age it is becoming clearer that all this world is about is people argueing over YOUR money. I do feel a tad guilty that my money doesnt go into the pools but what do they expect will happen? I can't drive 20 miles to an otb that opens at 11am each day and bet on chopped up cards of their choosing. Most require that you make a drink and/or food purchase as well making it damn near impossible to place your wagers and leave quickly. I dont think the otbs will last forever..if you yelp any bar with an otb here it is complaining about the otb customers squatting, cussing and yelling. It seems the only long term otb bars are shitty bars to begin with. There were some nice ones in tempe and a few attempts in chandler but they all removed the otb eventually.

I could go on forever.

[Hambletonian]

When will this industry, wagering on horse racing. wise up. A few years ago when the horsemen refused to deal with Colonial Downs in good faith, they were successful in shutting down horse racing in the entire state. Included were all ADW accounts and all of the Virginia OTB sites.
And why did they do this? One reason I read was the horsemen from Maryland were upset there was a gap created in the Maryland schedule to accommodate the Colonial meeting. The other was the horsemen wanted bigger purses. The money was not there. So instead of 3/4's a loaf, they got no loaf.
So they walked. Screwed the fans and the track's operators. Plus there was some development slated for the area surrounding the track property.
Horsemen have far too much clout. Ideally, there should be a balance of interest between the track management, horsemen and of course US

That's one opinion.

From what I remember, Colonial wanted to replace their normal meet with a boutique meet, concentrating the purse money in stakes races, which would have ended up largely in the hands of national horsemen at the expense of the locals. Colonial is an island unto itself, you stable there and pretty much that is where you have to race. So horsemen probably felt why go through the trouble of relocating for a meet that would largely be aimed at others.

[GMB@BP]

I am an AZ resident and the whole thing is so strange. I frequent a few dumpy OTB's to place a few wagers, but other than that 90%+ I place offshore. I tried the whole adw thing again and got sick of calling in, they would also let you use an app if the adw offered one like TVG and TS do.

In Pima county (Tucson) you were not allowed to have an adw account period since they brought it back. It is my understanding this was due to some agreement with Tucson Greyhound Park.

I think monmouthparkjoe is correct that this has to do with the tribes rather than TuP itself. Although the weird Pima rule makes me think they could screw it up even without that barrier.

As I age it is becoming clearer that all this world is about is people argueing over YOUR money. I do feel a tad guilty that my money doesnt go into the pools but what do they expect will happen? I can't drive 20 miles to an otb that opens at 11am each day and bet on chopped up cards of their choosing. Most require that you make a drink and/or food purchase as well making it damn near impossible to place your wagers and leave quickly. I dont think the otbs will last forever..if you yelp any bar with an otb here it is complaining about the otb customers squatting, cussing and yelling. It seems the only long term otb bars are shitty bars to begin with. There were some nice ones in tempe and a few attempts in chandler but they all removed the otb eventually.

I could go on forever.

Well at one time OTB's had their place and your right, I worked at McDuffy's for Turf Paradise in 92/93' and it was a great place, Stadium Club in Chandler, the Dallas House in phoenix, solid bars. I dont even recognize the places on their website, there are a total of 6 it appears to serve the entire 2 million people of the east valley.

If I can continue to play contests and occasionally make a big bet at an OTB then I guess I could still play, but the day to day plays are kinda gone.

[thespaah]

Almost all of this focuses squarely on the tribal casinos and the power the state granted them when the casinos came around. The cliff notes version is that if the state allowed any sort of "competition" to the tribal casinos they would have a drastic change in their taxes they pay to the state. They view allowing ADW wagering as a threat, and as a result, it will not be getting anywhere soon.

I dealt with it personally, Arizona politics is a mess and the OTB systems there are miserable. Basically a couple terminals in bars or restaurants, no one has a clue about anything going on.

Funny thing is, phone wagering is very costly to the track based on who the provider is. My guess is they are losing money with the venture. Imagine, each phone call costing something like $1.60, with no minimum for a wager and I doubt they would have the foresight to seek volume breaks.

So, a customer would have to place a $20 bet at a minimum each time they called just to basically break even. :eek:

Yes. Indian ( sorry not going PC here) gaming in many states also involved powerful political influences. Once the politicians see the flow of revenue to the the state, they sit up and take notice.
Like any powerful lobbying entity, the Indian Gaming operations get what they want.
For example, here in NC, the Eastern Band of the Cherokees have had a casino for 20 years. For the first 15 of those, it was electronic gaming only.
NC State law has some of the oddest gaming regulations. Given that NC is n the buckle of the Bible Belt, this comes as no surprise.
Games of "chance" were banned. As were any games where "skill and dexterity" were not required.
Well, the casino is immensely popular. Its slammed every day. Weekends, its crazy busy. its in a perfect location. Surrounded by states that ban casinos, TN.SC and GA. its a target rich environment.
Anyway, the Tribe went to the State legislature to open up live gaming, table games. Real dealers. They lobbied the state and despite the howls of protest from the far right religious conservatives, even the GOP controlled legislature could not resist the temptation of the additional revenue.
The casino now has live gaming tables. A lot of them.

[thespaah]

That's one opinion.

From what I remember, Colonial wanted to replace their normal meet with a boutique meet, concentrating the purse money in stakes races, which would have ended up largely in the hands of national horsemen at the expense of the locals. Colonial is an island unto itself, you stable there and pretty much that is where you have to race. So horsemen probably felt why go through the trouble of relocating for a meet that would largely be aimed at others.

As memory serves, the horsemen also balked at the prospect of lower purses. The track management explained the numbers. The horsemen weren't buying the management's stance.
As far as stabling horses, from what I have read, this is actually a problem at many tracks. Some trainers will apply and receive stall space and in some of those stalls are horses that the stable has zero intention of running at that meet.
Anyway, what occurred at Colonial was damned shame. Its a nice clean well run facility. Yeah,. its 40 miles from Richmond, and 30 mins from Norfolk, but so what?

[WP1981]

Well at one time OTB's had their place and your right, I worked at McDuffy's for Turf Paradise in 92/93' and it was a great place, Stadium Club in Chandler, the Dallas House in phoenix, solid bars. I dont even recognize the places on their website, there are a total of 6 it appears to serve the entire 2 million people of the east valley.

If I can continue to play contests and occasionally make a big bet at an OTB then I guess I could still play, but the day to day plays are kinda gone.

I have a buddy that manages the otb at nates 3rd base in chandler. Has its fair share of riff raff but its on a lake with the popular valley luna next to it so I think they survive off of that traffic. Stadium Club was a good spot but the theme is most of them go under. There was a nice bar off of kyrene and ray that opened up with one and went under 6-7 years ago. They even made an entire disconnected room for it but the waitresses would all tell me the otb patrons would order water with a lemon and use the table sugar packets to make lemonade and pay for nothing.

Skip and Jans was a stinky dump but seemed to be doing well due to billiards. I went to the costco there last week and saw it is shut down.

They arent going to have a choice soon other than an adw.

[Redboard]

That's one opinion.

From what I remember, Colonial wanted to replace their normal meet with a boutique meet, concentrating the purse money in stakes races, which would have ended up largely in the hands of national horsemen at the expense of the locals. Colonial is an island unto itself, you stable there and pretty much that is where you have to race. So horsemen probably felt why go through the trouble of relocating for a meet that would largely be aimed at others.

That's another opinion.

Colonial was trying to copy success and create a Saratoga of the south. Horseplayers like to bet on boutique meets. Why these local horsemen think they are entitled to a job is beyond me. Nobody guaranteed me any of my jobs in my life.

I don’t understand this “out of state” mentality that they have. If I’m going to hold a golf tournament, I want players like Justin Thomas, Dustin Johnson, Phil Mickelson & Tiger Woods to play in it. If I’m going to hold a t-bred meet, I want trainers like Todd Pletcher, Steve Asmussen, William Mott & Chad Brown. These people bring in interest and money. The local horsemen would like to run endless rounds of low-level state-bred claiming races just so they can make ends meet. If these people cant breed and train a decent horse, bleep em. Who wants to bet on that crap.

Unfortunately, Colonial’s plan was doomed from the start, not just by the local horsemen. They needed a full-time casino to be part of their business plan, which the idiotic legislature wasn’t going to give them.

[cj]

https://twitter.com/Pullthepocket/status/948252209447358464

[WP1981]

Turf Paradise
Attention Arizona Phone Bet Account Holders:

Effective January 9, 2018, all Phone Betting Accounts for Arizona residents will no longer be active. This includes phone betting accounts with TVG, Twin Spires, Express Bet and Turf Paradise Bets.
Contact your Phone Bet Provider to get the return of your money.

Dear Arizona Phone Bet Account Holder:
First, Turf Paradise apologizes for any inconvenience the cancellation of Phone Betting services in Arizona has caused you.
Due to strict gaming regulations, we were never able to offer Advanced Deposit Wagering (ADW) the way you the customer deserved: with full Internet access and the ability to use Phone Apps. So, rather than enhancing your experience by creating more and easier ways to play and creating new fans, it resulted in quite the opposite: Phone Betting cut into Turf Paradise’s on-track and Off Track Betting (OTB) handles, the two sources from which we derive benefit for our purse account and our business.
With Phone betting, less money was being wagered on-track and thru our OTB system. Thus, less money was available for purses and our business.

In the three years we have conducted Phone Betting, approximately $3.6 million has been taken from the Arizona horse racing industry.

Turf Paradise thanks our Phone Betting partners: TVG, Twin Spires and Express Bet. They have been helpful at every turn of the road; they have been excellent to work with and they understand why we are making this decision.
Each Arizona Phone Bet Account customer should contact your Phone Bet provider to get the return of your money.
Turf Paradise is mindful of its fans: the sport does not exist without the horseplayers. We regret any inconvenience this cancellation may cause. We want you to continue to be patrons of Turf Paradise horse racing, on-track and thru our OTB system.
Again, this decision was not made lightly. But it was a decision that had to be made in the best interest of Arizona horse racing.
Please feel free to call or email me.

Vincent Francia
General Manager

Questions or comments
Version: Mobile | Web

[WP1981]

Lol at them claiming it wasnt good enough for us without internet and then saying the real reason is they made less money when people had an option to play elsewhere.

Such a fail state.

[Redboard]

So, let me get this straight. If I have an ADW account in any state besides Arizona I'll be able to bet on Turf Paradice. But if I live in Arizona, I have to trudge on down to the track or the nearest OTB.
Betting on Turf Paradice from the comfort of my own home. It doesn't get any better than that!

[WP1981]

So, let me get this straight. If I have an ADW account in any state besides Arizona I'll be able to bet on Turf Paradice. But if I live in Arizona, I have to trudge on down to the track or the nearest OTB.
Betting on Turf Paradice from the comfort of my own home. It doesn't get any better than that!

Breathe it in. Welcome to the good life! $3k claimers and 20% take.

[AlsoEligible]

Lol at them claiming it wasnt good enough for us without internet and then saying the real reason is they made less money when people had an option to play elsewhere.

Such a fail state.

Right? What in god's name makes them think that full blown Internet wagering will somehow convince more people to go to the track and OTBs, while phone betting enticed them to stay home?

It's 2018. No one wants to go to your crappy OTBs. No one wants to drive out to your track on a Saturday afternoon, spending time and gas just to get gouged for parking and programs and concessions.

We can shop online. We can bank online. We can order food online. There's no reason we shouldn't be able to bet online. This state can either get with the times and give the people what they want...or watch its racing industry die out like the dinosaur that it is.

Saddest part is, as they keep circling the drain, they'll continue to blame everybody else but themselves. Idiots.

[cj]

I've considered Arizona as a retirement destination, seriously, but I'll never do it with the mess horse racing is in the state.

[GMB@BP]

I've considered Arizona as a retirement destination, seriously, but I'll never do it with the mess horse racing is in the state.

I have a feeling that New Jersey case could change a lot of laws in every state.

[Thismakesnosense]

This is the HUGE hidden cost of this insanity that people are actually NOT moving here or LEAVING the state of Arizona because we don't allow internet betting on the horses. Insane!

[WP1981]

Right? What in god's name makes them think that full blown Internet wagering will somehow convince more people to go to the track and OTBs, while phone betting enticed them to stay home?

It's 2018. No one wants to go to your crappy OTBs. No one wants to drive out to your track on a Saturday afternoon, spending time and gas just to get gouged for parking and programs and concessions.

We can shop online. We can bank online. We can order food online. There's no reason we shouldn't be able to bet online. This state can either get with the times and give the people what they want...or watch its racing industry die out like the dinosaur that it is.

Saddest part is, as they keep circling the drain, they'll continue to blame everybody else but themselves. Idiots.

You are dead on. The east valley is growing further and further south every day. A trip to the track is a heck of a drive for everyone out there. As I explained before the otbs just arent going to survive. You have to be a family friendly joint to make it and they dont want to take their kids there. Hell, I dont want to take my kids there. I live down south now and to place my BC wagers I went to the Tucson Oldfather Inn and had to bring my 6 year old and 6 month old with me. I felt like a dirtbag and the people there probably thought I was one as well.

Its not like there isnt demand here. The otbs get hammered with newbies and huge lines on big racing days. The racing commission only seems to be looking out for TuP, rather than growing racing in Arizona. I know there are problems with the tribes but there is no reason we should not have a track on par with a Santa Anita or GP and full internet wagering.

Every time I drive up the 101 and see the huge casino arizona and adjacent mlb spring training areas I wonder why the tribe didnt build one themselves right there.

Just an absolute pissing away of any revenue they could make from it.

[howardjim]

"I've considered Arizona as a retirement destination, seriously, but I'll never do it with the mess horse racing is in the state."

As have I, is New Mexico an ADW friendly state?

[spiketoo]

I've continued to use my former CA addy since moving here. No issues depositing nor withdrawing funds nor placing wagers online. It's not rocket science. One site does ask me to confirm the state I'm currently placing wagers from but they never confirm my IP which they easily could. If they did I'd just use a VPN.

[WP1981]

I've continued to use my former CA addy since moving here. No issues depositing nor withdrawing funds nor placing wagers online. It's not rocket science. One site does ask me to confirm the state I'm currently placing wagers from but they never confirm my IP which they easily could. If they did I'd just use a VPN.

I did the same back when the law was initially passed. I am sure they will ramp up geolocation services once the state starts threatening felony charges against them again. That will no doubt be trotted out on the 10th, if it hasnt already.

Same reasons dfs wont touch us. Legal nightmare.

Tight life az.

Ps.. were you an old dmff'er?

[lamboguy]

they will get the adw's back when they are allowed to charge a source marketing fee. my guess is that this is what its all about, once they get it they will try to close down the otb's.

[GMB@BP]

I've continued to use my former CA addy since moving here. No issues depositing nor withdrawing funds nor placing wagers online. It's not rocket science. One site does ask me to confirm the state I'm currently placing wagers from but they never confirm my IP which they easily could. If they did I'd just use a VPN.

I am considering this but in Ky at my in laws, then just vpn it.

[spiketoo]

I did the same back when the law was initially passed. I am sure they will ramp up geolocation services once the state starts threatening felony charges against them again. That will no doubt be trotted out on the 10th, if it hasnt already.

Same reasons dfs wont touch us. Legal nightmare.

Tight life az.

Ps.. were you an old dmff'er?

I've been doing it for seven years since I moved here long before AZ allowed phone wagering with no issues whatsoever.

PPS: Yes and who are you calling old?!?

[WP1981]

I lurked there for years. I miss that place! Lirm, Vince, Ogy, Ramon Sanchez' Mustache. Shame that creep had to spoil the fun. Still not sure why they caved, its a forum for gods sakes.

[spiketoo]

PM me. AG has setup a room on Chatzy for a few of us degens.

[summersquall]

I recall Crazykid as a poster of some insight as well. Specifically he was adamant on George Weaver at Saratoga.

[WP1981]

He always had a crazy Lukas longshot here and there. It may not win today or even this year but would eventually pop at $80.

[highnote]

Powerball jackpots are 500 million. US is moving toward legalizing sports wagering. Fantasy sports betting is huge. States are liberalizing marijuana sales. And the nanny state of Arizona has a problem with online wagering on horse racing -- the one form of betting that has been legal for about the longest time.

LololololololololololoL.

[AstrosFan]

the nanny state of Arizona has a problem with online wagering on horse racing -- the one form of betting that has been legal for about the longest time.


The political powers to be have their hand in the tribal casino cookie jar in AZ

[highnote]

The political powers to be have their hand in the tribal casino cookie jar in AZ

...and then there's that, too. Politicians suck.

[GMB@BP]

I assumed it was a payoff from the tribes, the move makes no sense other than a cash payment.

[sharkie187]

Dear Turf Paradise Management,
Since I moved to AZ a few years ago, I came to accept that you became my new home track. Coming from England, it wasn’t affordable to go see live racing (professional or amateur) as the average cost of attendance ranged from $20-45 for a NORMAL race day which is usually 6-7 races.
Moving here, I was optimistic to see live racing again! Then I realized the drive from Surprise to Turf Paradise was long and sometimes unbearable. Then upon arriving at the track, the scene wasn’t anything to write home about:
- broken seats in the General Admission area
- no real Club Seating without sitting at the restaurant but at least it has AC.
- trackside, you only get a few yards of optimal viewing from the grandstands since the Tiki bars are covering the stretch run.
- you have an excellent track announcer! But I can’t hear him during the race due to the poor piblic address system.
- you can hear the great race calls on TV but you lose a lot of quality as the cameras don’t seem they’ve been updated in a long while which can confuse viewers at times.
- you’re named Turf Paradise..yet the turf course seems to be an inner dirt track at times with dead grass covering the majority of the track.

Yet despite all of this...I still supported you and made the dreaded drive almost every weekend. Until I discovered the nearby OTBs. The thought of going nearby to place my bets seemed like a blessing. OTBs/bookies are common in England and Europe and I had pretty high expectations. All that was shattered when I went to the first OTB:
- patrons were EXPECTED to buy food or drinks at least $5.00. $10 on big sport days. Which meant less money to wager with. And lets not forget the constant harrassment by the servers if you don’t have any food or drink in front of you
- often 1 window teller and the rest were self serve machines (some didnt work).
- wagering couldn’t start until 11am...which meant you sometimes missed the opening races on the East Coast or the Dubai World Cup.
- although it said wagering closes at 7pm, the teller(s) were ready to shut down after the last Golden Gate race.
- and if you can bet the race, hopefully they showed it on one of the few TVs. Otherwise, you have to wait to see if your ticket is a winner or not by sticking it in one of the wagering machine.

And this was at just ONE location. There are/were worst OTBs throughout the area.
There is one OTB that doesn’t sell food but highly encourages the patrons to buy drinks because thats their only livelihood to stay open.
I’m not even gonna mention the OTB that was operational on Saturday and then permanently closed by Turf Paradise management on Sunday in Downtown Phoenix.

Accounting wagering was another blessing! Now the money that was going to be spent on gas getting to the track or on food/drinks at the OTB can go straight to wagering. But then it was another heartening blow...phone wagering only!!! Have you tried to put a wager on Xpressbet? You either punch in a bunch of numbers just to put in an exacta, or hope that the voice recognization understands your bet. Worst case, you talk to a live teller and pay 25 cents a bet!!! Still, it meant I spent less time elsewhere or at the track and more time with my growing family.

Now that you are taking away phone wagering, it seems like the last nail in the coffin for me. I tried to accept your flaws and your disappointments (such as half a card of quarter horse racing or no racing when it rains), but now its become too much to bear. It seems you’ve taken my passion away from horse racing where I can’t comfortably go make a bet. And thats a shame because I love not only betting on Turf Paradise, but Santa Anita, Golden Gate, Los Alamitos, Sunland, and Remington Park as well. But I am no longer going out of my way to make a bet with you. Its been real, its been fun, but it hasn’t been real fun! Hopefully you can sort this out and get things squared away where I can make a bet online.

[GMB@BP]

I think you summed on what everyone feels in this state.

You forgot to mention that Turf Paradise already charges their customers the highest amount to wager their races than anyplace in the Country.

I just cant support them anymore, I have been loyal but enough is enough.

[oughtoh]

I usually bet Turf during the week because I have been there before and like it. But since I was there many years ago, it has changed. Was still betting it at home because of when the races were on. Then all this happened, I stopped betting it last week and next time I am in Phoenix, that will not be someplace that I visit. If they want to do this to the people in Az, then they don't need my money either.

[dlion]

See below e-mail paste from TVG.

Also, I spoke to DRFBets. They renewed as well, with their communication going out tomorrow.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear TVG Customer,

Great news! With the renewal of the agreement between TVG and our local partner track, wagering will remain available to Arizona residents.

We'd previously communicated to you that wagering would no longer be available to Arizona residents as of Tuesday, January 9th. That is no longer the case and we apologize for any confusion this may have caused.

You may continue to use your TVG account as you have in the past.
Should you have any questions please call our customer service department at 1-888-PLAY-TVG (752-9884) and we'll be happy to help.

Thank you again for your loyalty and dedication.

Sincerely,
TVG

[GMB@BP]

So I just wired all the money out of both accounts....lmao

I am glad they came to their senses, or maybe just playing hardball but either way pretty irritating.

Not sure what I will do with my money.