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View Full Version : Possible Work Stoppage at Aqueduct Looming


Al Gobbi
12-22-2017, 04:04 PM
Standstill in negotiations between NYRA and Jockeys' Guild raises talk of work stoppage

OZONE PARK, N.Y. – Negotiations between the New York Racing Association and the Jockeys’ Guild over a contract regarding health benefits and insurance have stalled, creating the possibility of a work stoppage at Aqueduct beginning with the Jan. 6 card.

According to Tom Kennedy, an attorney for the Jockeys’ Guild, the Guild is seeking a three-year contract with NYRA that calls for no increase in benefit payments in 2018 and a 1 percent increases in 2019 and 2020. Kennedy said Thursday that NYRA has refused to sign the contract and is seeking to pay less than it did in 2017.

http://www.drf.com/news/standstill-negotiations-between-nyra-and-jockeys-guild-raises-talk-work-stoppage

Fager Fan
12-23-2017, 12:54 AM
Jockeys are self-employed. I've no idea why they expect the tracks or owners or anyone else to pay for their insurance.

dilanesp
12-23-2017, 09:20 AM
Jockeys are self-employed. I've no idea why they expect the tracks or owners or anyone else to pay for their insurance.

That's an overly formalistic way of looking at things.

What matters is bargaining power, not who "should" pay for something.

Tom
12-23-2017, 09:39 AM
Lots of other track out there.
Tracks SHOULD pay the insurance.
These guys put their lives and limbs on the line multiple time every day, while the morons upstairs have only a few thing to do- ignore their customer, mis-time races, and falsely report odd during races.

Especially when many are on welfare from the casinos.
Fair is fair, jocks pay their own insurance if track pay their own way.

You know, we only need a handful of tracks to have a much better game than we have ever had before. Start by weeding out the "takers" that suck the money from casino to survive.

Fager Fan
12-23-2017, 09:52 AM
That's an overly formalistic way of looking at things.

What matters is bargaining power, not who "should" pay for something.

Serious? That's a strange way of looking at things. Perhaps they could also demand a six course dinner every night after the races.

Fager Fan
12-23-2017, 09:56 AM
Lots of other track out there.
Tracks SHOULD pay the insurance.
These guys put their lives and limbs on the line multiple time every day, while the morons upstairs have only a few thing to do- ignore their customer, mis-time races, and falsely report odd during races.

Especially when many are on welfare from the casinos.
Fair is fair, jocks pay their own insurance if track pay their own way.

You know, we only need a handful of tracks to have a much better game than we have ever had before. Start by weeding out the "takers" that suck the money from casino to survive.

So when the contractor comes to work on your roof, risking life and limb, you should pay for his insurance?

If jocks want the benefits of being employees, then they should be employees. If they want to be private contractors, then they have to pay their own bills. What you think of the guys in the exec offices has nothing to do with this. And for the record, NYRA jocks and backside employees get far more taken out of owner accounts to pay for insurance, pensions, and other benefits than any other track in the country, along with a higher flat rate for rides.

Tom
12-23-2017, 10:29 AM
So when the contractor comes to work on your roof, risking life and limb, you should pay for his insurance?

Sorry, when you come back with something obviously stupid, I don't want to play your games. This not remotely comparable to jockey riding horses and track depending on them for the racing product.

TTTH.

dilanesp
12-23-2017, 10:38 AM
Serious? That's a strange way of looking at things. Perhaps they could also demand a six course dinner every night after the races.

They can't. On the other hand, there are superstars in my profession who make similar demands, and get it. And there are certainly superstars in the entertainment industry who make similar demands and get it.

The point is, the jockeys have a certain amount of leverage because there are a limited supply of skilled little people who are willing to risk their lives on horses. This allows them to bargain for compensation. Given that, it doesn't matter who, in principle, should pay for any particular line item. The only thing that matters is who has the leverage.

PaceAdvantage
12-23-2017, 11:24 AM
One side will cave, and everything will get back to normal. That's how these things usually work out.

Don't sweat it...:lol:

And if we miss a few days of racing in the dead of winter because of it, no big deal.

Fager Fan
12-23-2017, 11:53 AM
Sorry, when you come back with something obviously stupid, I don't want to play your games. This not remotely comparable to jockey riding horses and track depending on them for the racing product.

TTTH.

It's not stupid. It's a similar scenario.

The track depends on a lot of people to make racing go. Should they be responsible for the mortality coverage on the horses? The insurance for the trainers, grooms, hotwalkers, and exercise riders?

The way this normally works of course is that the employer pays for benefits such as health insurance, if they provide health insurance at all. The tracks aren't there employers. The jockeys are self-employed so in the normal world they would pay their own health insurance if they choose to carry it.

What must be happening is that they are signing liability waivers, reducing the cost to the track for its liability coverage, in exchange for providing some insurance coverage.

onefast99
12-23-2017, 12:41 PM
One side will cave, and everything will get back to normal. That's how these things usually work out.

Don't sweat it...:lol:

And if we miss a few days of racing in the dead of winter because of it, no big deal.
For 2017 the jockey insurance we paid as owners is $1500(most likely the same in 2018), no matter if you had one start or 20. The costs of racing in NY are high but the purses are also well worth it. We do not pay this fee in Florida, NJ, Ohio, Ky, Pa, Wv or Md.

Tom
12-23-2017, 12:54 PM
It's not stupid. It's a similar scenario.

The guy fixing my roof is charging ME to do it.
I pay for his insurance through the his fees.
Jockey do not charge the tracks to race at them.

Not remotely similar.

I'm done.

Fager Fan
12-23-2017, 01:00 PM
The guy fixing my roof is charging ME to do it.
I pay for his insurance through the his fees.
Jockey do not charge the tracks to race at them.

Not remotely similar.

I'm done.

No, they charge the owners. That's why it's even more absurd that the tracks are supposedly paying their insurance. Of course, as I pointed out earlier regarding NYRA fees and now Onefast too, it's (as always) the owner who ultimately pays.

Actor
12-23-2017, 06:47 PM
Perhaps they could also demand a six course dinner every night after the races.After two nights they wouldn't make the weight. :lol:

thespaah
12-26-2017, 11:05 PM
So when the contractor comes to work on your roof, risking life and limb, you should pay for his insurance?

If jocks want the benefits of being employees, then they should be employees. If they want to be private contractors, then they have to pay their own bills. What you think of the guys in the exec offices has nothing to do with this. And for the record, NYRA jocks and backside employees get far more taken out of owner accounts to pay for insurance, pensions, and other benefits than any other track in the country, along with a higher flat rate for rides.

"So when the contractor comes to work on your roof, risking life and limb, you should pay for his insurance?"
You are. The contractor factors in their costs to the price charged to the customer. The customer just doesn't see it.

onefast99
12-27-2017, 10:50 AM
"So when the contractor comes to work on your roof, risking life and limb, you should pay for his insurance?"
You are. The contractor factors in their costs to the price charged to the customer. The customer just doesn't see it.I just rented an SUV for our GP trip next month, the weekly rate was $529 add the additional fees added another $200 every business puts in their costs if they didn't they would be out of business.

thespaah
12-27-2017, 10:58 AM
One side will cave, and everything will get back to normal. That's how these things usually work out.

Don't sweat it...:lol:

And if we miss a few days of racing in the dead of winter because of it, no big deal.
I concur.
What I find amusing is when a major track cancels due to weather or track conditions, invariably there is a thread on here discussing the apocalypse . :lol::lol:

thespaah
12-27-2017, 11:33 AM
I just rented an SUV for our GP trip next month, the weekly rate was $529 add the additional fees added another $200 every business puts in their costs if they didn't they would be out of business.

BINGO!!!
Oh, I am a frequent renter of cars.
If you don;t mind discussing, what were the additional fees for?
Was it airport and state taxes?
$520 for a week in an SUV looks very expensive.
Ok...My fault. Looks like you go t a good price.
Never mind..

onefast99
12-27-2017, 01:05 PM
BINGO!!!
Oh, I am a frequent renter of cars.
If you don;t mind discussing, what were the additional fees for?
Was it airport and state taxes?
$520 for a week in an SUV looks very expensive.
Ok...My fault. Looks like you go t a good price.
Never mind..
Here are the fees:
Parking Surcharge
Customer Facility Charge
Concession Recovery Fee
Sales tax
Vehicle License Recovery

I went through Enterprise at Fort Lauderdale Airport. They seem to be a bit above the rest of the rental companies. I got a Ford Expedition. Last year the Diplomat Hotel tried to charge us $40 a day for an over sized vehicle for Valet.

Fager Fan
12-27-2017, 02:46 PM
"So when the contractor comes to work on your roof, risking life and limb, you should pay for his insurance?"
You are. The contractor factors in their costs to the price charged to the customer. The customer just doesn't see it.

I know. That was my point. It is part of the contractor's expenses that they should collect from whom hires them. You don't get handed an insurance bill from your contractor to pay, nor does a third-party that isn't hiring a contractor pay it (normally). This would all make more sense if they said they need to increase the jockey fees to cover their expenses.

biggestal99
12-27-2017, 04:55 PM
Jockeys are self-employed. I've no idea why they expect the tracks or owners or anyone else to pay for their insurance.

They have a union, which they pay dues to collectively bargain for them and get the best deal they can for their members, why is that so hard for you to understand.

Allan

Fager Fan
12-27-2017, 05:34 PM
They have a union, which they pay dues to collectively bargain for them and get the best deal they can for their members, why is that so hard for you to understand.

Allan

Is this really that complicated? Congrats to them getting the tracks, who aren't their employers, nor entities they are contracted with, to pay their health insurance. As I previously stated, it's a bizarre arrangement that makes zero sense unless it's a deal worked to offset the track's liability coverage expense, and then I'd expect the tracks to not give more than the difference between the liability cost with signed releases and without signed releases.

The Jockeys' Guild would do better to explain if that's the case rather than act like an injured party that we're all supposed to be sympathetic towards.

Tom
12-27-2017, 06:00 PM
Dog, meet bone.

Fager Fan
12-27-2017, 06:17 PM
Dog, meet bone.

Why open the thread, much less post, if you're not interested?

Tom
01-08-2018, 09:33 AM
Looks like the work stoppage did happen after all.
But due to cold weather.

onefast99
01-08-2018, 10:50 AM
The insurance fee paid by owners is staying at $1800 for the new year. This includes all NYRA tracks so if you run at Aqueduct you pay only once and you can run at Belmont, Saratoga or Finger Lakes. No matter if you run once or 20 times the fee is $1800.

Fager Fan
01-08-2018, 10:59 AM
The insurance fee paid by owners is staying at $1800 for the new year. This includes all NYRA tracks so if you run at Aqueduct you pay only once and you can run at Belmont, Saratoga or Finger Lakes. No matter if you run once or 20 times the fee is $1800.

Is it really that difficult for them to split it in a fairer manner like prorata?

onefast99
01-08-2018, 02:17 PM
Is it really that difficult for them to split it in a fairer manner like prorata?
They do, in December if you hadn't raced in NY previously it is $250 a start...then goes to $1800 in January through November for the whole year.

Fager Fan
01-08-2018, 02:35 PM
They do, in December if you hadn't raced in NY previously it is $250 a start...then goes to $1800 in January through November for the whole year.

Not exactly prorata, just a break to those getting in a single start at the end of the year for $250 instead of $1,800.