PDA

View Full Version : are they nuts at Los Al


lamboguy
12-16-2017, 04:24 PM
in todays first race with 7 horses and no stickout they don't take show wagers, in the second race with only 5 entrants and a stickout they are taking show!

this is part of the reason why this game is in trouble, the people that run it have zero clue what they are doing.

ronsmac
12-16-2017, 04:30 PM
in todays first race with 7 horses and no stickout they don't take show wagers, in the second race with only 5 entrants and a stickout they are taking show!

this is part of the reason why this game is in trouble, the people that run it have zero clue what they are doing.
No show wagering on maiden 20k horses at Los Al is not part of the reason why the game is in trouble.

jay68802
12-16-2017, 04:34 PM
in todays first race with 7 horses and no stickout they don't take show wagers, in the second race with only 5 entrants and a stickout they are taking show!

this is part of the reason why this game is in trouble, the people that run it have zero clue what they are doing.

I do not know what is stranger, no show wagering or that they had a 7 horse field.

lamboguy
12-16-2017, 04:53 PM
No show wagering on maiden 20k horses at Los Al is not part of the reason why the game is in trouble.i am basically talking about the decision makers that are running the game.

JustRalph
12-16-2017, 06:35 PM
No show wagering on maiden 20k horses at Los Al is not part of the reason why the game is in trouble.

But itís damn sure illustrative

What a mess

ronsmac
12-16-2017, 08:27 PM
But itís damn sure illustrative

What a mess
I agree it may not be ideal, but it's about number 178 on racing's problems.

cj
12-16-2017, 08:46 PM
Was a reason given?

lamboguy
12-16-2017, 09:16 PM
they should be taking show betting on every race, but instead of paying the minimum breakage, they should be paying the penny. but no, because they want to steal as much breakage from the players they will not change.

lets not forget that the breakage doesn't count towards the purses or the takeout, and therefore not only does the horsemen not get any of that money, but the state gets nothing as well. but one thing for sure, the player pays for the breakage.

and i don't know how to rate the breakage problem, but its somewhere in the top ten or fifteen.

ultracapper
12-17-2017, 05:08 AM
Off topic. I've been watching replays this evening, and I feel like the race caller there is as good as any I hear from other tracks. Los Al is nuts, but they certainly did one thing right with the race caller they employed.

Fager Fan
12-17-2017, 08:49 AM
they should be taking show betting on every race, but instead of paying the minimum breakage, they should be paying the penny. but no, because they want to steal as much breakage from the players they will not change.

lets not forget that the breakage doesn't count towards the purses or the takeout, and therefore not only does the horsemen not get any of that money, but the state gets nothing as well. but one thing for sure, the player pays for the breakage.

and i don't know how to rate the breakage problem, but its somewhere in the top ten or fifteen.

Ok. Let them pay to the penny, period. No minimum payouts. Deal?

lamboguy
12-17-2017, 10:46 AM
Ok. Let them pay to the penny, period. No minimum payouts. Deal?its fine with me as long as they get rid of breakage that they pocket on everything else.

whisperlunch
12-17-2017, 12:18 PM
The breakage is the biggest theft Iíve ever seen. And it amazes me that the players allow it to continue.

whisperlunch
12-17-2017, 12:20 PM
Iíd join a boycott for as long as it took to get paid off to the penny. But there are to many degenerates that couldnít last a day or a week to get the breakage rule changed. Sign me up

ronsmac
12-17-2017, 01:11 PM
Iíd join a boycott for as long as it took to get paid off to the penny. But there are to many degenerates that couldnít last a day or a week to get the breakage rule changed. Sign me up
The breakage issue which has gone on for 60 or more years has always been a crime and should be reduced to the penny on the dollar which would still be miniscule breakage because I know there won't be rounding up or down , just up . With that said, the takeout increases on exotic wagers has amounted to tens of millions more than breakage ever did. Especially in this day and age where exotics make up a much higher % of wagers than high breakage bets. WPS.

lamboguy
12-17-2017, 02:21 PM
The breakage issue which has gone on for 60 or more years has always been a crime and should be reduced to the penny on the dollar which would still be miniscule breakage because I know there won't be rounding up or down , just up . With that said, the takeout increases on exotic wagers has amounted to tens of millions more than breakage ever did. Especially in this day and age where exotics make up a much higher % of wagers than high breakage bets. WPS.makes little difference, they have higher calculations for breakage in exotics too. they have it all figured out these days.

dilanesp
12-17-2017, 11:37 PM
The breakage issue which has gone on for 60 or more years has always been a crime and should be reduced to the penny on the dollar which would still be miniscule breakage because I know there won't be rounding up or down , just up . With that said, the takeout increases on exotic wagers has amounted to tens of millions more than breakage ever did. Especially in this day and age where exotics make up a much higher % of wagers than high breakage bets. WPS.

I don't think it's a 60 year ripoff. A breakage rule was actually fine back in the day, because all bets were collected from tellers at the track and eliminating pennies and nickels sped up cashing.

But in the modern era, where most bets are placed from computers, and on-track attendance is low, it has become theft. Tracks nowadays should break to the penny, and sure, if the tradeoff is the minimum payoff is 1 to 200 and there are fewer minus pools, that's worth it.

Elliott Sidewater
12-17-2017, 11:58 PM
Off topic. I've been watching replays this evening, and I feel like the race caller there is as good as any I hear from other tracks. Los Al is nuts, but they certainly did one thing right with the race caller they employed.


You've got to be kidding, his voice sounds like a funeral director and he's a jerk too. This summer, when a 1-5 shot ran out, Mr. Informative couldn't wait to announce exactly how much money show bettors lost on the race, to the dollar. I kid you not. I feel sorry for the lost souls who play Los Al QH racing, the track that rejoices when you lose your money. Announcers should stick to calling the races, and mind their own business when it comes to what customers bet. IMO, the worst track announcer in the business.

ronsmac
12-18-2017, 12:00 AM
I don't think it's a 60 year ripoff. A breakage rule was actually fine back in the day, because all bets were collected from tellers at the track and eliminating pennies and nickels sped up cashing.

But in the modern era, where most bets are placed from computers, and on-track attendance is low, it has become theft. Tracks nowadays should break to the penny, and sure, if the tradeoff is the minimum payoff is 1 to 200 and there are fewer minus pools, that's worth it.
It was always designed as a revenue maker. When it was nickel breakage a horse who paid $6.30 went to $6.20 when they went to dime breakage. Did giving away 2 dimes instead of 3 really speed up the lines?

ronsmac
12-18-2017, 12:05 AM
makes little difference, they have higher calculations for breakage in exotics too. they have it all figured out these days. When a pick 4 pays 7700.20 instead of 7700.33 the % lost is miniscule. When take goes from 23% to 25% that pick 4 goes from 7700 to 7500. Both cases are theft in my opinion, but one is grand larceny. That's why breakage in exotic bets is barely an issue and is a huge issue with place and show bets.

cj
12-18-2017, 12:20 AM
I don't think it's a 60 year ripoff. A breakage rule was actually fine back in the day, because all bets were collected from tellers at the track and eliminating pennies and nickels sped up cashing.

But in the modern era, where most bets are placed from computers, and on-track attendance is low, it has become theft. Tracks nowadays should break to the penny, and sure, if the tradeoff is the minimum payoff is 1 to 200 and there are fewer minus pools, that's worth it.

Overall takeout was much lower at the time as well.

dilanesp
12-18-2017, 12:53 AM
Overall takeout was much lower at the time as well.

Well, that's because there were almost no exotic racing.

There's an argument that takeout is far lower now because exotic bets allow you to bet multiple horses and only pay one takeout. (Compared to a parlay, where you pay the takeout on each horse.)

Now, at some places WPS takeout is up too, of course. In California, interestingly, WPS takeout is under 16 percent now. For decades it was 17 percent here, so it is a bit lower now.

cj
12-18-2017, 01:26 AM
Well, that's because there were almost no exotic racing.

There's an argument that takeout is far lower now because exotic bets allow you to bet multiple horses and only pay one takeout. (Compared to a parlay, where you pay the takeout on each horse.)

Now, at some places WPS takeout is up too, of course. In California, interestingly, WPS takeout is under 16 percent now. For decades it was 17 percent here, so it is a bit lower now.

WPS takeout is up almost everywhere. It used to be around 10% most places when breakage came to be.

dilanesp
12-18-2017, 01:35 AM
WPS takeout is up almost everywhere. It used to be around 10% most places when breakage came to be.

It was never 10 percent in California. My mother remembers the 17 percent rate from when she started betting in 1951. It looks like it got down to 13 percent at times, got back up to 16.5 percent during the 1970's, and came back down to its current level (just under 16 percent) around 1979. The big change in California has been to jack up the exotic takeout a lot-- it used to be a percentage point higher than whatever the WPS takeout was until the late 1970's.

California racing was extremely successful in the 1970's and 1980's with what you would consider to be exorbitant takeouts plus dime breakage.

Prioress Ply
12-18-2017, 02:14 AM
Well, that's because there were almost no exotic racing.

There's an argument that takeout is far lower now because exotic bets allow you to bet multiple horses and only pay one takeout. (Compared to a parlay, where you pay the takeout on each horse.)

Now, at some places WPS takeout is up too, of course. In California, interestingly, WPS takeout is under 16 percent now. For decades it was 17 percent here, so it is a bit lower now.

While there's "an argument" involving horizontal exotics like daily doubles that mirror parlays, there is no argument about vertical bets like exactas, trifectas and supers. The takeout for these bets is outrageous. Or is it your position that every time any horse is added to a bet another 25% should ripped off from the bettor?

dansan
12-18-2017, 02:22 AM
Who bets to show :lol:

JustRalph
12-18-2017, 02:39 AM
Who bets to show :lol:

Thereís a couple guys in this thread who do it pretty well......

I watched em do it at Saratoga.

Equifan
12-18-2017, 02:58 PM
I'll agree he's ok.
Apparently we (Oaklawn home track) have to put up with Stauffer for another two years. OJC surely didn't even audition him......
:bang:

ultracapper
12-19-2017, 01:52 AM
You've got to be kidding, his voice sounds like a funeral director and he's a jerk too. This summer, when a 1-5 shot ran out, Mr. Informative couldn't wait to announce exactly how much money show bettors lost on the race, to the dollar. I kid you not. I feel sorry for the lost souls who play Los Al QH racing, the track that rejoices when you lose your money. Announcers should stick to calling the races, and mind their own business when it comes to what customers bet. IMO, the worst track announcer in the business.

They have a different race caller for the TBs and the QHs. I was talking about the TB caller. Maybe you were also, I can't be sure by your response. If so, all I can say is different strokes for different folks.

Elliott Sidewater
12-19-2017, 11:49 AM
They have a different race caller for the TBs and the QHs. I was talking about the TB caller. Maybe you were also, I can't be sure by your response. If so, all I can say is different strokes for different folks.

Ultracapper; yes, I was talking about the QH announcer. No problem with the guy who calls the thoroughbreds, I agree he does a good job. Other than lack of other betting options, I can't think of a single good reason to spend a Sunday night (or any other night) on Los Al QH racing. In my opinion it's their location alone that keeps them in business. Between the short fields, the bleating sound of the announcer's voice, and the random cancellation of show betting, Los Al QH makes the trip from bad to worse a short hop.