PDA

View Full Version : Arizona Cop Acquitted of...


Lemon Drop Husker
12-08-2017, 08:09 PM
Not sure I need to post anything more than this link.

http://reason.com/blog/2017/12/08/arizona-cop-acquitted-for-killing-man-cr

NOTE: As a forewarning, there is one of the most disturbing videos included in this link that I have ever seen.

Nutz and Boltz
12-08-2017, 08:39 PM
Fired for "poor performance" .....two months afterward.:faint:

The Judge
12-08-2017, 09:44 PM
I posted this under the Thread "Not Guilty Verdict in Kate Steinle at #55. It should be under it's own thread.

This poor guy was shot dead for failing an agility test that I couldn't pass sober or otherwise.

I also thought he passed the agility test, this was in Arizona not California see post # 54 under "the Kate Steinle"

Lemon Drop Husker
12-08-2017, 09:49 PM
I posted this under the Thread "Not Guilty Verdict in Kate Steinle at #55. It should be under it's own thread.

This poor guy was shot dead for failing an agility test that I couldn't pass sober or otherwise.

I also thought he passed the agility test, this was in Arizona not California see post # 54 under "the Kate Steinle"

Yea, I thought I saw this elsewhere on here. I searched and didn't find anything. Either way. Yes. It definitely deserves its own thread.

zico20
12-08-2017, 10:44 PM
Disgusting! Once a person is on the ground they should never be told to come forward. Have the person lay there til reinforcements arrive. This was outright murder, he was looking to kill him from the start.

Dave Schwartz
12-09-2017, 01:40 AM
Not sure I need to post anything more than this link.

http://reason.com/blog/2017/12/08/arizona-cop-acquitted-for-killing-man-cr

NOTE: As a forewarning, there is one of the most disturbing videos included in this link that I have ever seen.

I defend the actions of police all the time but cannot begin to fathom how this officer could have done this.

What is more surprising is that this video in and of itself was not enough for a conviction.

Color me shocked.

JustRalph
12-09-2017, 01:52 AM
Iím afraid to look

thaskalos
12-09-2017, 02:08 AM
If this so-called "policeman" was acquitted of this heinous crime...then there is obviously something seriously wrong in our country when it comes to dealing effectively with the police. These aren't "peace officers"...these are a bunch of THUGS. He shoots an innocent guy full of holes...and then he slowly approaches him with his weapon pointed as if it's his OWN life that's in danger. :rolleyes:

If these guys are really that scared when performing their jobs...why don't they turn in their badges and get a job at some 7-11?

Lemon Drop Husker
12-09-2017, 02:12 AM
I defend the actions of police all the time but cannot begin to fathom how this officer could have done this.

What is more surprising is that this video in and of itself was not enough for a conviction.

Color me shocked.

A jury of our supposed peers witnessed this very video. And let that man go.

thaskalos
12-09-2017, 02:22 AM
A jury of our supposed peers witnessed this very video. And let that man go.

Makes you wonder what a cop has to do in order to be found GUILTY, in a "court of law".

Lemon Drop Husker
12-09-2017, 02:33 AM
Makes you wonder what a cop has to do in order to be found GUILTY, in a "court of law".

I don't want to jump to those kinds of conclusions and such, but that is...

I just can't even imagine being that kid's father. Or the girl and her family.

Nutz and Boltz
12-09-2017, 09:28 AM
....And ,in the video,not a word spoken by the other officer or officers there at the time. Like it was procedure. It all has to do with training. Something is missing !

barahona44
12-09-2017, 10:02 AM
A jury of our supposed peers witnessed this very video. And let that man go.

It's easy to find badge bunnies and holster sniffers in the general population when it comes to jury selection.

Lemon Drop Husker
12-09-2017, 10:19 AM
....And ,in the video,not a word spoken by the other officer or officers there at the time. Like it was procedure. It all has to do with training. Something is missing !

Great mention, and noticed that as well. Even after he shot the guy his "partner" really didn't even say much, did he? In fact, he was in step to try and open the door to the room after likely having to step over a guy his partner rolled with rounds of bullets.

It is a litany list of things that are so incredibly wrong in that video, and the more one thinks about it, the worse it gets.

I'm scared that a panel of our peers felt it reasonable to let that guy go. WTF is wrong with people?

Inner Dirt
12-09-2017, 10:45 AM
That is disgusting beyond belief, that guy was humiliated then pretty much executed. The guy barking out the instructions is an idiot also and needs to be fired. We have an unarmed, law abiding white guy, who wasn't resisting killed by police. Where is the wide spread outrage? Why wasn't this all over the news? I only heard about it recently.

Tom
12-09-2017, 11:07 AM
Time for DOJ to step in - this thug violated civil rights at minimum.

He needs to be off the streets

classhandicapper
12-09-2017, 11:57 AM
That was terrible.

This cop seemed to be looking for a reason to blow this kid away. I have no training, but everything about the way this was handled seemed wrong.

The thing that probably got the cop off was the kid reaching behind his back the first time. It provoked a serious reaction from the cop. A cop will not know why you are reaching behind you. Many people keep guns in their pants behind them. So he could have easily been reaching for a gun. That's why he was screaming at the kid to not reach behind again or he'd shoot him.

The kid did not realize the significance of why he should reach behind himself and seemed to be making a move in that direction again when the cop shot him. Tragic.

Tom
12-09-2017, 12:09 PM
Coincidence - just watching COPS on TV, and this car is driving erratically, cops purse, but driver will not pull over. Never gets to high speed. He hits a guard rail and eventually pulls over. He gets out, and stumbles to the rail and leans on it. Guy is old and wobbly. Appears to be drunk.

Now, 6-7 cops, guns drawn and trained on him, they move in, one Baboon of a cop screaming like a madman, "Get on the ground. Get on the ground. Now!" over and over.

Then, from the rear, some storm trooper in full riot gear with what looks like an assault rifle trained on the old guy rushes up past them all, like he was storming Normandy. For an old man barley able to stand up against the railing!

The response to this old man rivaled that in Ferguson and Baltimore!

They finally get the guy down and cuff him, and it turns out his diabetic and has not had any insulin that day - blood sugar at 325 and he is in dire straits.

So a squad of jack-booted gorillas has protected society from an old diabetic barely able to stand.

If the TV crew were not filming, I think one of the Roid-Cops would have shot him.

Who do we need to be protected from anyway?
Yes, cops need to be careful, but the also need to use their brains.e
I normally support cops all the way, but this was unacceptable.
All those car and gun-toting crazies were far more of a threat to public safety than a drunk drive pulling over.

Cops need to be trained when to stand down.

(Note- everyone was white, the old man very white!)

thaskalos
12-09-2017, 12:55 PM
How can these cops behave like this while knowing that their body cameras are recording these atrocities? Do they think that they can get away with ANYTHING? The "suspect" is on the ground with his hands locked behind his head...and multiple fully-armed cops are yelling at him that they'll shoot him dead if he doesn't "keep his legs crossed" while crawling on his hands and knees?

What a horrible message this acquittal sends to all the citizens out there, who want to avoid getting shot by an over-zealous cop.

johnhannibalsmith
12-09-2017, 01:09 PM
I chuckle a bit when I'm watching Live PD and the police are real suspicious because someone is acting nervous around them.

The Judge
12-09-2017, 01:13 PM
I kept thinking that another cop was going to step-up and take over it was clear that nothing this poor guy did was enough . He was not a threat.

He was in a deadly game of "Simon Says".

There are thousands of cops can they all make-up their own rules as to what a suspect is suppose to do when confronted?

No matter what, laying flat with hands behind your head and legs crossed left over right not right over left is enough . Not to mention hands raised earlier.

A complete waste of life an innocent father and husband.

thaskalos
12-09-2017, 01:21 PM
Where are these desperado-cops when you need them...in gang-infested places like Chicago's South Side? But I guess shooting unarmed citizens is easier on the "nerves". :rolleyes:

newtothegame
12-09-2017, 02:02 PM
I did NOT read the story and only witnessed the video.
I would like to know what the cops were there for? Who did they think they were running into? Bonnie and Clyde??? The shooter cop told him several times to follow instructions and when the kid reached behind his back, you can see the cop got seriously agitated. Its almost like he thought somehow the kid had a weapon hidden.
Fast forward to the crawl, after being warned several times to NOT reach back, the kid appears to lose balance and reaches back....DAMN!
In no way am I justifying what happened as I believe that cop was in NO danger. Hell the kid was so scared he was even crying!
I'm just thinking of how it transpired.....
Again, knowing what the cop was thinking (Who were they there to arrest some bank robber), as to who his actions were that way....
Insanity!

RunForTheRoses
12-09-2017, 02:15 PM
I did NOT read the story and only witnessed the video.
I would like to know what the cops were there for? Who did they think they were running into? Bonnie and Clyde??? The shooter cop told him several times to follow instructions and when the kid reached behind his back, you can see the cop got seriously agitated. Its almost like he thought somehow the kid had a weapon hidden.
Fast forward to the crawl, after being warned several times to NOT reach back, the kid appears to lose balance and reaches back....DAMN!
In no way am I justifying what happened as I believe that cop was in NO danger. Hell the kid was so scared he was even crying!
I'm just thinking of how it transpired.....
Again, knowing what the cop was thinking (Who were they there to arrest some bank robber), as to who his actions were that way....
Insanity!

There had been reports of someone firing a pellet gun out the window (the kid). That is what triggered the event.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/10/27/15/45BDAED400000578-5022173-image-a-15_1509115359589.jpg

Lemon Drop Husker
12-09-2017, 02:16 PM
I did NOT read the story and only witnessed the video.
I would like to know what the cops were there for? Who did they think they were running into? Bonnie and Clyde??? The shooter cop told him several times to follow instructions and when the kid reached behind his back, you can see the cop got seriously agitated. Its almost like he thought somehow the kid had a weapon hidden.
Fast forward to the crawl, after being warned several times to NOT reach back, the kid appears to lose balance and reaches back....DAMN!
In no way am I justifying what happened as I believe that cop was in NO danger. Hell the kid was so scared he was even crying!
I'm just thinking of how it transpired.....
Again, knowing what the cop was thinking (Who were they there to arrest some bank robber), as to who his actions were that way....
Insanity!

I'm by far no field expert, but it took me all of 2 seconds to realize the couple in charge was of zero circumstance to hurt anybody, nor was is it anywhere near their intent.

IT should have been a 10 second OK, move on about your business type thing. But GI Joe had different aspirations of escalating the event at each and every opportunity possible and had to shoot his gun that day.

Nutz and Boltz
12-09-2017, 02:18 PM
In the video, the cop was pissed right away because the two suspects took their time to leave the room. In his mind, I guess, he thought that they might be planning to try to make an escape or shoot him.
I thought the police fire a warning shot, then shoot to disable and only then might they shoot to kill . It seems now days, right away, it's shoot to kill.

RunForTheRoses
12-09-2017, 02:24 PM
That is disgusting beyond belief, that guy was humiliated then pretty much executed. The guy barking out the instructions is an idiot also and needs to be fired. We have an unarmed, law abiding white guy, who wasn't resisting killed by police. Where is the wide spread outrage? Why wasn't this all over the news? I only heard about it recently.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/24470/police-matt-walsh

From the column:

Brailsford was called to a hotel in Mesa back in January of 2016 on reports that someone had been pointing a rifle out of a window. Daniel Shaver, very drunk at the time, had apparently been messing around with a few pellet guns that he used in his pest control job. Exceedingly stupid behavior on his part, but not deserving of the death penalty. Still, Brailsford and the other responding officers could not have known that they were pellet guns, so it's understandable that they were on edge.
But this is where it gets not-so-understandable. Shaver emerges stumbling out of his hotel room. He's told to get on the ground, and he immediately complies. Shaver attempts to follow every instruction shouted at him, but he has difficulty because the instructions make no sense. Here's a verbatim transcript of everything Brailsford told Shaver to do, as he pointed his rifle at him and threatened repeatedly to kill him: "lie on the ground," "put both hands on top of your head and interlace your fingers," "take your feet and cross your left foot over your right foot," "keep your feet crossed," "put both hands flat in front of you" (while they're on his head and interlaced?), "push yourself to a kneeling position" (have you ever tried to push yourself up while your arms are extended all the way in front of you?), "put both hands in the air," "crawl towards me" (with his hands in the air?), "stop," "crawl," "keep your legs crossed" (while crawling?), "put your hands in the air," "keep your legs crossed," "crawl" (so he's supposed to crawl again with his hands in the air and his legs crossed). In the midst of this flurry of hysterical, arbitrary commands, as Brailsford continually reminds Shaver that he'll die if he "makes a mistake," Shaver cries and begs for his life.

Robert Fischer
12-09-2017, 02:34 PM
That was terrible.

This cop seemed to be looking for a reason to blow this kid away. I have no training, but everything about the way this was handled seemed wrong.

The thing that probably got the cop off was the kid reaching behind his back the first time. It provoked a serious reaction from the cop. A cop will not know why you are reaching behind you. Many people keep guns in their pants behind them. So he could have easily been reaching for a gun. That's why he was screaming at the kid to not reach behind again or he'd shoot him.

The kid did not realize the significance of why he should reach behind himself and seemed to be making a move in that direction again when the cop shot him. Tragic.


c'mon man...

Nutz and Boltz
12-09-2017, 02:36 PM
I respect "the law" one-hundred percent, but I find it harder to respect "law officers" individually.

barahona44
12-09-2017, 05:41 PM
I thought the police fire a warning shot, then shoot to disable and only then might they shoot to kill . It seems now days, right away, it's shoot to kill.

The only time a police officer should shoot someone is if their life or the life of someone else is in danger.A wounded suspect is still a danger to others.As for warning shots, most departments either discourage or outright ban the use of them.A bullet shot in the ground can fragment and cause injury to the officer or others and bullets shot in the air eventally return to earth ("What goes up"...) and could kill or wound someone that was in its path.I had an officer who I knew that once told me "If you're dumb enough to fire your weapon,you better be smart enough to kill what you're shooting at".Wounding someone leaves too many unanswered questions such as your marksmanship skills.And this cop wasn't the hot dogging, itchy trigger finger type.

highnote
12-09-2017, 11:20 PM
How does someone explain to his daughters what happened and why?

This is one of the most tragic stories in recent memory that I've come across.
The tragedy is that it was preventable.

Had the cop given consistent instructions it might not have escalated.

Had the victim not been drinking and handling a gun there might not have been a problem.

Note to self: booze and guns don't mix -- especially in a hotel room with open curtains.

Dave Schwartz
12-09-2017, 11:48 PM
I kept thinking that another cop was going to step-up and take over it was clear that nothing this poor guy did was enough . He was not a threat.

He was in a deadly game of "Simon Says".

There are thousands of cops can they all make-up their own rules as to what a suspect is suppose to do when confronted?

No matter what, laying flat with hands behind your head and legs crossed left over right not right over left is enough . Not to mention hands raised earlier.

A complete waste of life an innocent father and husband.

Judge,

I saw pretty much what you did.

I am very pro-cop and I recognize what a difficult and dangerous job it is. Even more so in inner cities.

However, I am hard-pressed to find justification of this one.

My wife used the Simon Sez metaphor as you did we she watched this.

Today, I sent this to one of my retired cop-friends. (We have breakfast together about once a month.) I asked him what he saw. His response was, "There must be more to the story."

My question was, "What can we be missing?"

I held my friend (the cop) accountable for his attitude. I asked, "Are you saying that there is ALWAYS more to the story because a police officer "just wouldn't do anything like that?"

He admitted that there are "bad cops." My problem is that the knee-jerk reaction from police is that "there MUST be more to the story."

The public has a tendency to knee-jerk in the other direction: "The bad cops killed another innocent person."

While that is bad, this is worse.

Look, I get it. There is a brotherhood and that brotherhood has to exist for these guys to survive on the job. However, if the police will not hold themselves to a higher standard, we need a police force to monitor the police.

Remember, I am BIG supporter of police. I was once on the wrong end of an altercation with police involvement. It took me a long time to get past the fact that anyone can be on the wrong side.

Just my opinion.

Dave Schwartz

highnote
12-10-2017, 12:06 AM
Look, I get it. There is a brotherhood and that brotherhood has to exist for these guys to survive on the job. However, if the police will not hold themselves to a higher standard, we need a police force to monitor the police.


We had an attorney from HR give a talk to our crew yesterday about harassment in the workplace.

He made a good point that anytime there is a predominately homogenous workforce certain types of behavior and attitudes are going to be institutionalized. This applies to the priesthood as well as a police force or the military.

The way to battle this is to have more diversity in the workplace because this forces checks and balances.

I'm not saying diversity is the only or best solution, but I have to agree with him that when you put all of the same type of people in one place and have them work together for years a culture will form that with attitudes and behaviors that may not always be appropriate outside of that culture.

Protectionism is one manifestation. A code-of-silence is another.

There might even be peer pressure to withhold the truth or to not rock the boat.

Dave Schwartz
12-10-2017, 12:22 AM
Protectionism is one manifestation. A code-of-silence is another.

There might even be peer pressure to withhold the truth or to not rock the boat.

That is a great attitude.

Again, I get the brotherhood but "truth" must be the standard to strive for.

davew
12-10-2017, 12:28 AM
The more to the story is the reason the cops were there was because someone was seen pointing a gun out a window at the hotel. The dead man was drunk/high and suspected to be the person with the gun.

Having said that, with 2 cops and the guy on the ground, one could have easily cuffed him.

highnote
12-10-2017, 09:48 AM
The shooting was very disturbing. Also disturbing was the way the cop stepped over the victim like the dead guy was just an animal. The victim's wife had to be in shock. Callous.

I once got hit by an out of control car on the parkway while driving on my way home from work. It was nearly blizzard conditions. I came to a stop and called 911. No one was hurt. The highway patrolman arrived and got out of his car and walked up to my car. It was extremely dangerous because a couple of other cars had spun out and nearly hit me again.

I said to the cop I would have gotten out of my car and walked back to check on the car that hit me but it seemed too dangerous. He said he's used to it and that you have to have nerves of steel.

Having nerves of steel should be a prerequisite for being a cop. If you don't have them you're probably in the wrong profession. You're going to get killed or kill someone.

newtothegame
12-10-2017, 10:31 AM
The shooting was very disturbing. Also disturbing was the way the cop stepped over the victim like the dead guy was just an animal. The victim's wife had to be in shock. Callous.

I once got hit by an out of control car on the parkway while driving on my way home from work. It was nearly blizzard conditions. I came to a stop and called 911. No one was hurt. The highway patrolman arrived and got out of his car and walked up to my car. It was extremely dangerous because a couple of other cars had spun out and nearly hit me again.

I said to the cop I would have gotten out of my car and walked back to check on the car that hit me but it seemed too dangerous. He said he's used to it and that you have to have nerves of steel.

Having nerves of steel should be a prerequisite for being a cop. If you don't have them you're probably in the wrong profession. You're going to get killed or kill someone.
So a cop on an interstate in inclimate weather is compared to a cop arriving on a scene where there has been said to be guns and a shooter???
And this is how "nerves of steel are determined'???

I can imagine you have never had hot lead flying over your head or at you.

MutuelClerk
12-10-2017, 10:48 AM
It's pretty amazing that the people here never agree on anything. And that's fine. Finally when we do a jury rules the other way. Only in America.

classhandicapper
12-10-2017, 03:53 PM
Here's some more background.

https://www.redstate.com/patterico/2017/12/09/shooting-daniel-shaver-law-enforcement-perspective/

classhandicapper
12-10-2017, 04:10 PM
c'mon man...

I'm not sure what you are complaining about. I trashed the way the cops handled it.

How are you supposed have your hands in the air, your legs crossed, and crawl at the same time?

However, if you actually watch the video carefully you'll see what I was talking about.

People often keep guns in their pants in the back. It keeps the gun less visible. So if you reach behind during an encounter with a cop, his first instinct will be that you may be reaching for a gun. That's exactly why the cop screamed at the kid when he put both of his hands behind his back. The kid thought he was doing a submissive thing, but he was actually doing a provocative thing. A hyperactive cop could have conceivably made a mistake and shot him right there. That's why the cop told him if you do that again we are going to shoot you.

Also, the article I posted above give more context.

The shooter was not the one barking the orders. The sergeant was barking orders and they were responding to a call about someone with a gun.

None of that is an excuse for a badly handled situation. It's an explanation.

thaskalos
12-10-2017, 04:48 PM
How many armed-to-the-teeth cops does it take to apprehend an unarmed man who is on his knees and pleading for his life...without having to kill him first?

Tom
12-10-2017, 05:15 PM
Over / under is at 10

thaskalos
12-10-2017, 05:49 PM
At a family Christmas party last night, I discussed this shooting with two family members...who happen to be Chicago cops. Both felt that this fatal shooting was JUSTIFIED! Upon further prodding, I discovered that:

1.) No matter what...the police officer's commands must be followed to the letter, no matter how "illogical" they may sound.

2.) Even when the suspect is scared to death because several cops are shouting threats and menacingly pointing their weapons at him, he should never make even the slightest "false move"...no matter how frightened he is. Any "false move" can get you shot.

3.) NO...it isn't enough for the suspect to remain face-down with his fingers interlocked behind his head. If the "peace officer" orders him to crawl forward while keeping his legs crossed...he is obligated to follow the officer's orders.

Those are the rules...like them or not. :rolleyes:

PaceAdvantage
12-10-2017, 05:56 PM
I refuse to watch this video. As I've gotten older, watching people die is just something I won't willingly do...call me a pussy.

With that said, being a cop, especially in a major metropolitan area, has to be one of the most nerve-wracking jobs ever created. On an almost daily FREAKIN' BASIS, you literally aren't sure if you're going to come home to your wife and kids at night. Imagine living like that.

I know, I know...tell them to get another job. But let's live in reality instead of fantasy land for at least a moment.

Not defending what happened here, but let me just say it's surprising that something like this doesn't happen more often.

I like to think most cops (and by most, I mean 98+%) are doing the best they can given the circumstances.

Robert Fischer
12-10-2017, 06:07 PM
That was terrible.

This cop seemed to be looking for a reason to blow this kid away. I have no training, but everything about the way this was handled seemed wrong.

The thing that probably got the cop off was the kid reaching behind his back the first time. It provoked a serious reaction from the cop. A cop will not know why you are reaching behind you. Many people keep guns in their pants behind them. So he could have easily been reaching for a gun. That's why he was screaming at the kid to not reach behind again or he'd shoot him.

The kid did not realize the significance of why he should reach behind himself and seemed to be making a move in that direction again when the cop shot him. Tragic.

c'mon man...


I'm not sure what you are complaining about. I trashed the way the cops handled it.

How are you supposed have your hands in the air, your legs crossed, and crawl at the same time?

However, if you actually watch the video carefully you'll see what I was talking about.

People often keep guns in their pants in the back. It keeps the gun less visible. So if you reach behind during an encounter with a cop, his first instinct will be that you may be reaching for a gun. That's exactly why the cop screamed at the kid when he put both of his hands behind his back. The kid thought he was doing a submissive thing, but he was actually doing a provocative thing. A hyperactive cop could have conceivably made a mistake and shot him right there. That's why the cop told him if you do that again we are going to shoot you.

Also, the article I posted above give more context.

The shooter was not the one barking the orders. The sergeant was barking orders and they were responding to a call about someone with a gun.

None of that is an excuse for a badly handled situation. It's an explanation.

We can all see the video where he reaches his arm towards his back. And we all realize that the guy who got executed was an idiot who minutes earlier was brandishing a gun.

You did more crawling around in these posts than the guy who was executed.

Liberal or Conservative, whether you happen to be pro Law Enforcement or a social justice warrior, all sides benefit from improving police-citizen interaction. Competency and accountability must exist at some level.

Your posts here scream 'confirmation bias' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias).

railbird
12-10-2017, 09:05 PM
A jury of our supposed peers witnessed this very video. And let that man go.

Sorry , but the video was withheld from the jury . The judge felt it would be too (predudicial ? ) to the case

Fager Fan
12-11-2017, 09:43 AM
That was terrible.

This cop seemed to be looking for a reason to blow this kid away. I have no training, but everything about the way this was handled seemed wrong.

The thing that probably got the cop off was the kid reaching behind his back the first time. It provoked a serious reaction from the cop. A cop will not know why you are reaching behind you. Many people keep guns in their pants behind them. So he could have easily been reaching for a gun. That's why he was screaming at the kid to not reach behind again or he'd shoot him.

The kid did not realize the significance of why he should reach behind himself and seemed to be making a move in that direction again when the cop shot him. Tragic.

The man (kid?) making that move as he was crawling forward was the issue. Why the heck did he reach over?

I don't like a lot of what happened here, like why they were drawing this out. Once on the floor, the partner should've handcuffed them quickly. It's almost like they were just trying to draw it out until the guy did something to justify shooting.

But I'd still ask why the guy reached for the girl's bag (isn't that what he was doing?)? That was a crazy move to make and ultimately justified the shooting.

What were this girl and guy in trouble over? I haven't googled for more news on this.

Fager Fan
12-11-2017, 09:58 AM
I've read through the thread and see he was shooting a pellet gun in a hotel room. And drunk.

This was very badly handled. These cops mayve been found not guilty, but both should be fired and never hired again as a cop or security guard. Their instructions were ridiculous and they should've quickly cuffed them. The video should've been allowed.

highnote
12-11-2017, 10:25 AM
So a cop on an interstate in inclimate weather is compared to a cop arriving on a scene where there has been said to be guns and a shooter???
And this is how "nerves of steel are determined'???

I can imagine you have never had hot lead flying over your head or at you.

Considering that cars were spinning out on the parkway at 55 miles per hour and coming down a very slippery hill and that highway state patrolman was walking along the edge of the highway and could have been hit by a 1500 pound projectile at any second I'd say he had nerves of steel. I saw them spinning out and there was no way I would have gotten out of my car. The snow was plowed into banks alongside the road. There was no where to run if a car started spinning out at him. It was Russian roulette and he got lucky.

I would think cops get some kind of training on how to handle situations like the one in the video. Surely that requires nerves of steel to handle that situation. The guy was acquitted so there must be more to the story than just the video.

davew
12-11-2017, 11:05 AM
The man (kid?) making that move as he was crawling forward was the issue. Why the heck did he reach over?

I don't like a lot of what happened here, like why they were drawing this out. Once on the floor, the partner should've handcuffed them quickly. It's almost like they were just trying to draw it out until the guy did something to justify shooting.

But I'd still ask why the guy reached for the girl's bag (isn't that what he was doing?)? That was a crazy move to make and ultimately justified the shooting.

What were this girl and guy in trouble over? I haven't googled for more news on this.

He reached back to pull up his dropping pants?

The other cop did not cuff because he was in front of open door to his room and they did not know if anyone else was in room.

Inner Dirt
12-11-2017, 11:06 AM
Sorry , but the video was withheld from the jury . The judge felt it would be too (predudicial ? ) to the case

I don't think so from what I read, it was only originally withheld from the media and general public.

PaceAdvantage
12-11-2017, 11:29 AM
Sorry , but the video was withheld from the jury . The judge felt it would be too (predudicial ? ) to the caseA video of what actually transpired would be too prejudicial for the jury to see?

WHAT?

WOW...that's insane...that can't be true, can it?

These cops were on trial for the shooting and killing of this man, and the video of the shooting and killing of the man was not allowed to be shown in court?

Seriously?

zico20
12-11-2017, 11:35 AM
He reached back to pull up his dropping pants?

The other cop did not cuff because he was in front of open door to his room and they did not know if anyone else was in room.

Are we watching the same video? The door to his room was behind the guy and it was closed. The cops had no problem going past the dead guy to get to his room. The cops could have easily cuffed him while others went to the room.

The cop was looking to kill him, he got his wish. We should be thankful their were not little kids with him, they would not have been able to follow those directions and the cop would have gunned them down to.

highnote
12-11-2017, 12:03 PM
A jury acquitted the cop. A jury also acquitted O.J. Simpson.

Does that mean O.J. is innocent?

Most people believe O.J. killed his wife and her friend, but the jury felt there was reasonable doubt.

The same goes here. Just because the cop was acquitted by a jury does not make him truly innocent. Only God knows what the truth is -- what was in the shooter's mind.

The cop probably had a better attorney than the prosecuting attorney.

I assume there will be a civil case?

The cop was let go by the department. That sends a message that there was at least some wrong doing on the part of the cop.

The question I have is why didn't the cops call for more backup? If they feared another shooter was in the room wouldn't they want a SWAT team to help out?

Inner Dirt
12-11-2017, 12:10 PM
[/B]

Are we watching the same video? The door to his room was behind the guy and it was closed. The cops had no problem going past the dead guy to get to his room. The cops could have easily cuffed him while others went to the room.

The cop was looking to kill him, he got his wish. We should be thankful their were not little kids with him, they would not have been able to follow those directions and the cop would have gunned them down to.

Or someone who is deaf, mentally challenged, has a physical disability, or doesn't understand English well either. Some of the fellow law enforcement's reaction to this execution is down right pathetic, some act like there is no such thing as an unjustified shooting. Many act like if you don't follow even a simple order you get shot. What happens if you are physically unable? I would have gotten killed in that situation also as due to destroyed shoulders I can't raise even a hand above by head without using the other arm to assist. I also could not crawl like that, I would fall over because by legs are weak from spinal cord damage. I look like a normal 56 year old just walking and talking. I don't appear disabled until I have to perform a physical task. I would be a dead man there also.

Inner Dirt
12-11-2017, 12:13 PM
A jury acquitted the cop. A jury also acquitted O.J. Simpson.

Does that mean O.J. is innocent?

Most people believe O.J. killed his wife and her friend, but the jury felt there was reasonable doubt.


Do you seriously believe that? The verdict was nothing but revenge against a supposed racist system. If O.J. was white, he would have been found guilty and gotten a max sentence.

highnote
12-11-2017, 12:21 PM
Do you seriously believe that? The verdict was nothing but revenge against a supposed racist system. If O.J. was white, he would have been found guilty and gotten a max sentence.

Where in my post did I say what I believe?

I stated that what most people believe are the facts.

Most people believe O.J. was guilty.

The jury acquitted him.

His attorneys put reasonable doubt into the minds of the jurors.

You might be right that it was a revenge verdict to acquit O.J. But since I don't know what was in the minds of the jurors, I could only hypothesize about what was in their minds. Hypothesizing is not the same as facts.

The attorney(s) for the cop put reasonable doubt into the minds of the jurors. That doesn't mean the cop was innocent or guilty. It means the jury found him not guilty. Using your logic, maybe it was a revenge verdict by a pro-cop jury?

I have no opinion on whether the cop was innocent or guilty. I wasn't at the shooting and I wasn't in the courtroom. It could all be fake news planted by Russians for all I know. :D

Racetrack Playa
12-11-2017, 12:31 PM
A video of what actually transpired would be too prejudicial for the jury to see?

WHAT?

WOW...that's insane...that can't be true, can it?

These cops were on trial for the shooting and killing of this man, and the video of the shooting and killing of the man was not allowed to be shown in court?

Seriously?
I believe the jury saw the shooting video, however a photo of the shooters gun was NOT shown to the jury. A custom engraving on the dust cover, read
"You're Fuc*ed":eek:
https://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/yourefd_1459294715042_35083524_ver1.0_640_480.jpg

highnote
12-11-2017, 12:48 PM
Do you seriously believe that? The verdict was nothing but revenge against a supposed racist system. If O.J. was white, he would have been found guilty and gotten a max sentence.

Also, the defense attorneys and the prosecuting attorneys had a hand in picking the jurors for the O.J. trial. The defense got their client acquitted.

You might be right that it was a revenge verdict, but the fact is, O.J. was found not guilty. Just like the cop in Arizona. Not guilty.

It might be the case that O.J. is guilty and the cop is guilty. All we can say for certain is that the juries acquitted them. People are free to believe whatever they want about either of those trials, but the fact is, the jury's decision is final.

thaskalos
12-11-2017, 12:53 PM
I believe the jury saw the shooting video, however a photo of the shooters gun was NOT shown to the jury. A custom engraving on the dust cover, read
"You're Fuc*ed":eek:
https://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/yourefd_1459294715042_35083524_ver1.0_640_480.jpg

Very prophetic...

lamboguy
12-11-2017, 06:30 PM
Do you seriously believe that? The verdict was nothing but revenge against a supposed racist system. If O.J. was white, he would have been found guilty and gotten a max sentence.black people do convict their own kind. OJ got the not guilty because he could afford to pay for a great legal team, this cop probably had his union pay for a great legal defense as well.. great legal teams win almost impossible cases. bad ones lose cases where their clients are innocent.

highnote
12-11-2017, 06:32 PM
black people do convict their own kind. OJ got the not guilty because he could afford to pay for a great legal team, this cop probably had his union pay for a great legal defense as well.. great legal teams win almost impossible cases. bad ones lose cases where their clients are innocent.

Yes. Innocent people are in jail. Guilty people are free. It happens

highnote
12-11-2017, 09:47 PM
Not sure I need to post anything more than this link.

http://reason.com/blog/2017/12/08/arizona-cop-acquitted-for-killing-man-cr

NOTE: As a forewarning, there is one of the most disturbing videos included in this link that I have ever seen.

The second cop is not even wearing any head gear, but he has a card key. Why were only two cops responding. If they feared someone else was in the room why didn't they have a SWAT team helping them?

It strikes me as odd that neither of them seemed bothered that they just killed a man.

The man on the floor didn't move a bit after he was shot. I didn't see any blood or splattering.

It's also odd that as the man reaches behind himself the camera view of the man becomes obstructed so that we really can't see what he is trying to do when reaching behind himself. Then when he brings his hand forward it is empty, yet, they shoot him. If they were so concerned about him reaching behind, why didn't they see that he had nothing in his hand?

It's almost like this video was faked.

More fake news?

davew
12-11-2017, 09:54 PM
It's almost like this video was faked.

More fake news?

Just highly edited

highnote
12-11-2017, 09:57 PM
Just highly edited

That makes sense.

highnote
12-11-2017, 10:28 PM
The terror suspect that tried to set off a bomb today in NYC was handcuffed by two NYC policemen after he reached for a cell phone and had a brief scuffle.

Why didn't they just shoot him like the cops in Arizona? Maybe because NYC cops get better training?

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/nyc-police-respond-reports-explosion-port-authority-bus-125504776--abc-news-topstories.html

Nutz and Boltz
12-14-2017, 09:01 AM
Sad...http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/widow-slams-jury-acquitting-shot-dead-unarmed-husband-article-1.3697722