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mountainman
12-03-2017, 05:33 PM
Is it only MY impression, or are the Mahoning players way, way, behind the curve?? 4/5 on chalks that should be 1/2..7/2 on natural 2-1 shots..18-1 on runners with VERY real chances?? Any skilled handicapper not focusing on this track is missing out. Bigtime. The place is a freakin' ATM machine.

I have never encountered anything like it.

Robert Fischer
12-03-2017, 06:37 PM
I've seen some good value there.

some observations:

Coupled Entries are usually extremely overbet. Almost to the point of either tossing them or passing the race.

Pick-3's have paid less than I expected. (Sample size probably thrown off by the time I used a :1::1a: to complete good capping in the previous races :D ).

Exactas have been better than I expected.

Post positions are largely ignored.

Finish order/literal form seems to be overrated.

mountainman
12-03-2017, 08:04 PM
I've seen some good value there.

some observations:

Coupled Entries are usually extremely overbet. Almost to the point of either tossing them or passing the race.

Pick-3's have paid less than I expected. (Sample size probably thrown off by the time I used a :1::1a: to complete good capping in the previous races :D ).

Exactas have been better than I expected.

Post positions are largely ignored.

Finish order/literal form seems to be overrated.

Pace scenario seems underbet to me. And I don't think the pools, in general, are very sharp at detecting a bias..or non-bias, for that matter. Nor do I get the impression that the surface's intrinsic nature is much understood by Mahoning bettors. I also think that early imbalances in the win pool rarely get completely corrected.

The subtle aspects of strategy and running style are just not accounted for, either. Just a much-less than sophisticated bunch of bettors. That's my general observation. There ARE more than occasional signs on the tote that somebody has down some homework-but those somebodies aren't really that sharp or inspired.

rrpic6
12-04-2017, 10:18 AM
Is it only MY impression, or are the Mahoning players way, way, behind the curve?? 4/5 on chalks that should be 1/2..7/2 on natural 2-1 shots..18-1 on runners with VERY real chances?? Any skilled handicapper not focusing on this track is missing out. Bigtime. The place is a freakin' ATM machine.

I have never encountered anything like it.

My quick take on this:

Horses are being bet down from sometimes generous Morning Lines. (John McGary got to know the place well and was spot on 99% of the time IMO. He's greatly missed here).

Woodbine shippers are over-bet. Some like the surface, many don't.

Indiana Grand shippers are overlooked. No matter what their form shows, many wake up here at double digit odds.

I believe horses that ran at Mountaineer in their previous race has won at most 3 times at MVR in their next race.

The local tip-sheet, The Postman's Picks has benefited from decent weather and a consistent surface. His top pick has won 64 of 167 races (38%). His 2nd choice has won another 36 for a total of 59.8% for the meet so far. (Shameless plug):cool:

RR

mountainman
12-04-2017, 11:44 AM
My quick take on this:

Horses are being bet down from sometimes generous Morning Lines. (John McGary got to know the place well and was spot on 99% of the time IMO. He's greatly missed here).

Woodbine shippers are over-bet. Some like the surface, many don't.

Indiana Grand shippers are overlooked. No matter what their form shows, many wake up here at double digit odds.

I believe horses that ran at Mountaineer in their previous race has won at most 3 times at MVR in their next race.

The local tip-sheet, The Postman's Picks has benefited from decent weather and a consistent surface. His top pick has won 64 of 167 races (38%). His 2nd choice has won another 36 for a total of 59.8% for the meet so far. (Shameless plug):cool:

RR

Hi, Ron, great to hear from you. And good job with your tip sheet.

With the Woodbine horses, much of it hinges on the barn and psychology of why they are there. Canadian outfits invading this region are sometimes tuff to gauge, since most of them are in cahoots north of the border, and send horses south as some sort of "community pool." And program trainers (hidden ownership) runs amok. Even the Canadian runners that exhibit good form at Mvr should be handled with care, since lots of them are there to be sold or unloaded.

As to the Indy horses, spot on. They are much better than players assume. But the ones I've seen win were exploiting hideous fields-low condition races-at Mvr. That horse in the last race Wed is an example.

As to the morning line, I don't even glance at it. Nor would it remotely affect any good handicapper's notion of value.

How is Dinoto doing as a steward up there?? She's part of my crew at Mnr, and I was overjoyed when she got the job.

bello
12-04-2017, 12:28 PM
Is it only MY impression, or are the Mahoning players way, way, behind the curve?? 4/5 on chalks that should be 1/2..7/2 on natural 2-1 shots..18-1 on runners with VERY real chances?? Any skilled handicapper not focusing on this track is missing out. Bigtime. The place is a freakin' ATM machine.

I have never encountered anything like it.

Okay MM, I am going to tune in today and even post m bets in the handicapping section to embaress myself.

As you know I took a mountaineer break after a particularly unfortunate race and have concentrated on harness.Looking for a winter tbred track. Been messing with Tampa but you peaked my Mahoning interest. Not going to start actual betting until I see some patterns. That is when I will stop posting selections.

Thanks for the tip ( I Think)

Robert Fischer
12-04-2017, 12:37 PM
first race today

somebody has to win...


2) offers value, 9/2 last time in that slow-paced key-race that held together.

5) may well have issues, but I respect the trainer enough to include.

7) not in love, but can't leave him out

8) i'll reluctantly give a 2nd try


----
lean-against toss

1a) is he really 7/2 early w/out players 'anchoring' to his ml?

6) good trip in the Nov 1st key race. He's half decent, but i was kinda hoping/expecting that he'd be taking more money. Hopefully the board 'corrects' late, and I get better price on the 2,8

bello
12-04-2017, 12:42 PM
Race 1
Going with the
#1a firster...faily well bred. Bad field and looks great on the track
#7 is beginning to show ratty tendencies but getting closer

Robert Fischer
12-04-2017, 12:48 PM
just going to box the 2567

wanted the 8, but he does not appeal on track

1a should be enough underlay to skip being fancy about the 6

Robert Fischer
12-04-2017, 12:55 PM
man... that was a bad race / default winner

4 didn't run horribly in the slow paced race on 11/1, but I still can't see him running 2nd.

bello
12-04-2017, 01:11 PM
Race 2 Im liking 4 best....has not proven to be as bad as the other two logical choices the 1-5.
P3 145/127/17

Robert Fischer
12-04-2017, 03:08 PM
6th race

:9: Street Factor is no world beater. He ran a solid race last time. I could see him running another solid race, or being exposed a bit. He's 3-1 as I type this, so I hope he takes more money late.

:7: Barney Come Home doesn't have much in the stretch. I'd like him to be a power-forward and keep the 9 wide (please don't be a fullback and clear a path for the 9!).


boxing the 2,3,4,5 exacta and playing a 2345 over 234589 for insanity insurance.

Robert Fischer
12-04-2017, 03:20 PM
file me under dumb money

mountainman
12-04-2017, 04:47 PM
hi guys..just noticed your input....bet four races today...tanked on the Cowan's firster in the opener (bred on the bottom to win at first asking), and the 7-horse, Maxine, in the 4th ( liked the price and mistakenly thought she could cool her speed-jets a little and adapt to what had to be a torrid pace).......................did connect hard on Awesome Palace ( $19.60) in the 2nd (excused her latest over wet track she detested, and liked the quick improvement on heels of most recent change of trainers..also saw her potentially in control of sluggish field, and loved her two-back start when competitive in much stronger field)...also nailed I'mluckysgirl ($7.00), whom I rated a near -lock in the 7th......incidentally, it was my impression that aside from a brutal trip, Fadlovich intentionally reserved U and Tequila off the pace today..

Franco Santiago
12-04-2017, 05:47 PM
Is it only MY impression, or are the Mahoning players way, way, behind the curve?? 4/5 on chalks that should be 1/2..7/2 on natural 2-1 shots..18-1 on runners with VERY real chances?? Any skilled handicapper not focusing on this track is missing out. Bigtime. The place is a freakin' ATM machine.

I have never encountered anything like it.

At MVR, favorites are winning at an exceptionally high rate AND they are returning FAR more than usual. BUT, it could be that you are uncovering some tremendous overlays and for YOU, Mahoning is awesome. Of course, if we are to be successful, the crowd is going to have to be "behind the curve"; when we are unsuccessful it is US that is behind the curve. Still, I don't think the assertion that MVR bettors are uninformed is true at all. If so, favorites wouldn't be doing so well.

According to my records, IND shippers are 4 for 43, returning about $1.00 for every $1.00 bet. One horse was 20-1 or so. Can't hang my hat on these types.

Woodbine shippers are 2/9...sample size too small still.

rrpic6
12-04-2017, 06:21 PM
.....did connect hard on Awesome Palace ( $19.60) in the 2nd (excused her latest over wet track she detested, and liked the quick improvement on heels of most recent change of trainers..also saw her potentially in control of sluggish field, and loved her two-back start when competitive in much stronger field)...also nailed I'mluckysgirl ($7.00), whom I rated a near -lock in the 7th......incidentally, it was my impression that aside from a brutal trip, Fadlovich intentionally reserved U and Tequila off the pace today..

You and I were on the same page with these runners. My comment on Awesome Place was "Disliked off track last out. Gets preferred dry surface now. Live Bomb". I'mluckysgirl was my top pick in race 7 despite the ML of 6-1??? My personal line was 2-1, so $7.00 was nice!

RR

bello
12-04-2017, 07:59 PM
Posted in the handicap section and had winners of races 4-7 pegged on top. Pleased for first time this year.

MM and RR...looks like rain tomorrow. Any usual bias on a wet track at MVR?

mountainman
12-04-2017, 08:26 PM
Posted in the handicap section and had winners of races 4-7 pegged on top. Pleased for first time this year.

MM and RR...looks like rain tomorrow. Any usual bias on a wet track at MVR?

Mild negative rail is possible, as is anti-closer (which is not to be confused with pro-speed...really potent biases that favor quick and pure frontrunners are EXTREMELY rare at Mvr)

Congrats on some good handicapping, btw.

mountainman
12-04-2017, 08:30 PM
You and I were on the same page with these runners. My comment on Awesome Place was "Disliked off track last out. Gets preferred dry surface now. Live Bomb". I'mluckysgirl was my top pick in race 7 despite the ML of 6-1??? My personal line was 2-1, so $7.00 was nice!

RR Lol. Not thrilled that somebody as sharp as you is so dedicated to keeping Mahoning bettors well-informed. It's going to cut into my profits this winter, at least a little-no doubt. I hope management appreciates you, good sir.

Prof.Factor
12-04-2017, 11:29 PM
Of the Woodbine shippers, Kevin Buttigieg runners are around 7/12 (58%). They haven't been surprises though.

rrpic6
12-05-2017, 08:52 AM
Posted in the handicap section and had winners of races 4-7 pegged on top. Pleased for first time this year.

MM and RR...looks like rain tomorrow. Any usual bias on a wet track at MVR?

When there is an all day soaking rain, anything goes. A slow steady light rain does favor EP types. Usually middle of the track the place to be.

RR

bello
12-05-2017, 09:52 AM
Thanks Gents for the insight.

Looks like a pretty good cold front went through already. I went through the card last night and definitely found it tougher than yesterday.

Still on the fence about playing today. I'll await track conditions and late changes.

Kudos on these huge fields

mountainman
12-05-2017, 07:16 PM
Thanks Gents for the insight.

Looks like a pretty good cold front went through already. I went through the card last night and definitely found it tougher than yesterday.

Still on the fence about playing today. I'll await track conditions and late changes.

Kudos on these huge fields

Likewise had no strong opinions on today's races. Played light, made very modest profit on an uninspiring card. I rated the surface fair.

bello
12-05-2017, 10:21 PM
I pounded the early DD and should have stopped there.Some good sized form reversals that threw me for a loop.

No Clouston at Mahoning?

rrpic6
12-06-2017, 08:51 AM
I pounded the early DD and should have stopped there.Some good sized form reversals that threw me for a loop.

No Clouston at Mahoning?

Clouston has 3 in today. He's 2 for 9 so far at MVR. Cheap speed was hanging on yesterday. That will happen with a little moisture in the surface. Today track will be bone dry. Should be fair to all.

RR

bello
12-06-2017, 10:32 AM
Today's card easier to decipher IMO. I'll be sending it in today.

If Clouston wins any of the races he is in, I will lose that race.

Whosonfirst
12-06-2017, 10:35 AM
Played light, made very modest profit on an uninspiring card.
Was the ATM shut down?

Tom
12-06-2017, 11:12 AM
Actually, Parx has been playing very nice the last month or so that I have been watching it. Not outrageous prices, but enough good one on horse who run to their form. If you re tired of state breds and turf sprints, it is the track to play.

mountainman
12-06-2017, 05:16 PM
Today's card easier to decipher IMO. I'll be sending it in today.

If Clouston wins any of the races he is in, I will lose that race.

I killed them today...8/5...9/2 ..8-1..9-1...and 4-1 on a horse I loved in the last...best day for me in several years...

For future reference, sir, my 9-1 ($21.80) winner, Ideal Place, was a choppy mover who tended to stay left lead last year. Today, though, he moved smoothly and seemed to switch on cue. Also, he came from way back (against the grain) to blow by a loose leader who had controlled the pace. VERY live for next-if correctly spotted.

mountainman
12-06-2017, 05:18 PM
Was the ATM shut down?

lol...I start with cash..and hit the atm only if I love an upcoming race...I also carry winning tickets from past cards in my pocket..

mountainman
12-06-2017, 05:23 PM
Clouston has 3 in today. He's 2 for 9 so far at MVR. Cheap speed was hanging on yesterday. That will happen with a little moisture in the surface. Today track will be bone dry. Should be fair to all.

RR

I found yesterday's strip fair, but today's quite speed-favoring. Bias, however, is in the eye of the beholder, sir.

I do think it's very difficult right now for horses to close wide from well back...I don't mean sweeping turn moves, but instead stone-cold closers out wide down the lane.

Whosonfirst
12-06-2017, 06:42 PM
lol...I start with cash..and hit the atm only if I love an upcoming race...I also carry winning tickets from past cards in my pocket..
LOL. Reminded me of my neighbor who got me started on this at Penn National. We used to take his Smoky and the Bandit model Firebird to the track. Upon arriving he'd go back and pop the trunk and get a wad of bills from under the carpet at the spare tire. I asked him why he kept all that money in the trunk. He said Carol(his wife) didn't need to know how much he'd made. He was a big blonde-haired bear of a man, whom I sure any old Penn regulars would remember as Whitey or Bodie.

bello
12-07-2017, 10:01 AM
I killed them today...8/5...9/2 ..8-1..9-1...and 4-1 on a horse I loved in the last...best day for me in several years...

For future reference, sir, my 9-1 ($21.80) winner, Ideal Place, was a choppy mover who tended to stay left lead last year. Today, though, he moved smoothly and seemed to switch on cue. Also, he came from way back (against the grain) to blow by a loose leader who had controlled the pace. VERY live for next-if correctly spotted.

Nice Job MM.....I am still on the fence.
Once again I nailed the DD. The firster in race 1 paid shockingly well for a horse whose workouts were not camouflaged and won by a mile.
The starter allowance in race 4 was an ice cold number IMO. Then I not only lost races 567 I got destroyed. Really dismayed the 1 in race 7 was even on the track ( with my money) as his action was awful from the start and the board showed it.
Im with you on the 8 race and was shocked at the exacta price ( very good)

So I am showing a profit but when I go back to review the races I lost, I simply cannot make case for the winners and that is bothering me.

cj
12-09-2017, 05:54 PM
They can't time a race worth a damn and it is very tough to make speed figures. But your average Joe doesn't realize this and bets as usual.

Tom
12-09-2017, 06:58 PM
Gee, that's odd.
Even when they were not timing the splits, BRIS was able get pace figs out for every race! :rolleyes:

:bang:

mountainman
12-09-2017, 10:10 PM
They can't time a race worth a damn and it is very tough to make speed figures. But your average Joe doesn't realize this and bets as usual.

lol..I'm well aware of that, Craig...but times and figs are a dispensable part of my game...in fact, I prefer the chaos of inaccurate clockings, because speed figs much influence the pools......btw, merry xmas , pal!!

rrpic6
12-12-2017, 08:54 AM
They can't time a race worth a damn and it is very tough to make speed figures. But your average Joe doesn't realize this and bets as usual.

The times are accurate as far as I can tell. The problem is plenty of sand has been dumped on the surface the past week. The surface is the deepest I've ever seen it. Beyond being "Winterized". 6 furlongs in 1:18 for maidens and low level types. 1:16 for the typical open claimers. We had the 1st measurable snowfall last night so today should be interesting. Most winners came from the outside posts and outside part of the track on Monday.

In Race 8, #1 Tilt the Balance went wire to wire from the inside to break that trend. Put the 2nd place finisher, Afleet Tee on any horses to watch list. She was 50-1, broke slowly from #2 post, swung wide, checked and ducked inside late, flew past the winner after the wire. I had the exacta to rescue my worst day of handicapping MVR this year.

RR

cj
12-12-2017, 09:10 AM
The times are accurate as far as I can tell. The problem is plenty of sand has been dumped on the surface the past week. The surface is the deepest I've ever seen it. Beyond being "Winterized". 6 furlongs in 1:18 for maidens and low level types. 1:16 for the typical open claimers. We had the 1st measurable snowfall last night so today should be interesting. Most winners came from the outside posts and outside part of the track on Monday.

In Race 8, #1 Tilt the Balance went wire to wire from the inside to break that trend. Put the 2nd place finisher, Afleet Tee on any horses to watch list. She was 50-1, broke slowly from #2 post, swung wide, checked and ducked inside late, flew past the winner after the wire. I had the exacta to rescue my worst day of handicapping MVR this year.

RR

You could be correct, but I'm skeptical when I see so many races with missing fractions (27 this year at least, about 4%) and a lot of the time gaps between races on the same day make no sense. My experience has been when there are this many timer malfunctions, the obvious ones are caught but many more slip through the cracks.

ultracapper
12-12-2017, 01:18 PM
The times are accurate as far as I can tell. The problem is plenty of sand has been dumped on the surface the past week. The surface is the deepest I've ever seen it. Beyond being "Winterized". 6 furlongs in 1:18 for maidens and low level types. 1:16 for the typical open claimers. We had the 1st measurable snowfall last night so today should be interesting. Most winners came from the outside posts and outside part of the track on Monday.

In Race 8, #1 Tilt the Balance went wire to wire from the inside to break that trend. Put the 2nd place finisher, Afleet Tee on any horses to watch list. She was 50-1, broke slowly from #2 post, swung wide, checked and ducked inside late, flew past the winner after the wire. I had the exacta to rescue my worst day of handicapping MVR this year.

RR

Totally off opic, but couldn't help myself.

1st day I ever went to the track, Memorial Day 1982, a horse named Tilt the Balance won the Memorial Day Handicap at Longacres. He was my very first winning bet, OF MY ENTIRE LIFE.

mountainman
12-12-2017, 10:11 PM
The times are accurate as far as I can tell. The problem is plenty of sand has been dumped on the surface the past week. The surface is the deepest I've ever seen it. Beyond being "Winterized". 6 furlongs in 1:18 for maidens and low level types. 1:16 for the typical open claimers. We had the 1st measurable snowfall last night so today should be interesting. Most winners came from the outside posts and outside part of the track on Monday.

In Race 8, #1 Tilt the Balance went wire to wire from the inside to break that trend. Put the 2nd place finisher, Afleet Tee on any horses to watch list. She was 50-1, broke slowly from #2 post, swung wide, checked and ducked inside late, flew past the winner after the wire. I had the exacta to rescue my worst day of handicapping MVR this year.

RR

There WAS no rescue for me yesterday.

mountainman
12-12-2017, 10:39 PM
You could be correct, but I'm skeptical when I see so many races with missing fractions (27 this year at least, about 4%) and a lot of the time gaps between races on the same day make no sense. My experience has been when there are this many timer malfunctions, the obvious ones are caught but many more slip through the cracks.

I need 5/8 split on 5 1/2 furlong races. It's important to me.

mountainman
12-12-2017, 10:42 PM
The times are accurate as far as I can tell. The problem is plenty of sand has been dumped on the surface the past week. The surface is the deepest I've ever seen it. Beyond being "Winterized". 6 furlongs in 1:18 for maidens and low level types. 1:16 for the typical open claimers. We had the 1st measurable snowfall last night so today should be interesting. Most winners came from the outside posts and outside part of the track on Monday.

In Race 8, #1 Tilt the Balance went wire to wire from the inside to break that trend. Put the 2nd place finisher, Afleet Tee on any horses to watch list. She was 50-1, broke slowly from #2 post, swung wide, checked and ducked inside late, flew past the winner after the wire. I had the exacta to rescue my worst day of handicapping MVR this year.

RR

When it's really cold, that surface often becomes more speed conducive late in the day.

mountainman
12-19-2017, 11:28 AM
Tricky surface. The rail has been dead and speed unable to win. But deep
closers floated out to the crown have also struggled. Just two ways right now to win over this track: advance wide and boldly to challenge at the quarter pole, or rally from striking distance while splitting horses.

Geometry doesn't kick in until the field spins off the turn.

Jeff P
12-20-2017, 07:06 PM
TUES 12-19-2017: Starting with R1, I noticed a few subtle changes in the surface. vs. Monday's card and the past several cards leading up to Monday's card - which, imo, Mark did a great job of describing in post #43.

For most of Tuesday's card: I thought the rail along the far turn was still a bit deep and tiring - but not quite to the same degree as that seen during the past several race dates. I also thought horses who found themselves along the rail from the top of the strech on seemed to be getting over the surface ok (unlike the past several race dates.)


WED 12-19-2017: Imo, starting with R1, more/continuing subtle changes.

For most of Wednesday's card: I thought the rail along the far turn had become ok (unlike the past several race cards.) I also thought horses hung out wide on the far turn were actually paying a price (unlike the past several race cards.) And I thought horses who found themselves along the rail from the top of the stretch on seemed to be getting over the surface ok - perhaps a little better than they had on Tuesday's card. (Imo, a complete 180 compared to the past several race cards leading up to Tuesday's card.)

Looking ahead, right now as I type this, 50% chance of rain predicted for Fri (80% for Sat.)

Imo, some not so subtle changes for the surface between now and Saturday.



-jp

.

mountainman
12-20-2017, 10:49 PM
TUES 12-19-2017: Starting with R1, I noticed a few subtle changes in the surface. vs. Monday's card and the past several cards leading up to Monday's card - which, imo, Mark did a great job of describing in post #43.

For most of Tuesday's card: I thought the rail along the far turn was still a bit deep and tiring - but not quite to the same degree as that seen during the past several race dates. I also thought horses who found themselves along the rail from the top of the strech on seemed to be getting over the surface ok (unlike the past several race dates.)


WED 12-19-2017: Imo, starting with R1, more/continuing subtle changes.

For most of Wednesday's card: I thought the rail along the far turn had become ok (unlike the past several race cards.) I also thought horses hung out wide on the far turn were actually paying a price (unlike the past several race cards.) And I thought horses who found themselves along the rail from the top of the stretch on seemed to be getting over the surface ok - perhaps a little better than they had on Tuesday's card. (Imo, a complete 180 compared to the past several race cards leading up to Tuesday's card.)

Looking ahead, right now as I type this, 50% chance of rain predicted for Fri (80% for Sat.)

Imo, some not so subtle changes for the surface between now and Saturday.



-jp

.

Very sharp post. Some of the players at mnr's simulcast facility who consult me on mvr bias reacted with skepticism Tuesday when I observed that the strip was changing.

In my opinion, that transformation-inner paths on the far turn and getting the early lead were no longer sure death-was more discernable today.

Unlike my home track, Mvr is a track prone to complex (and almost self-contradictory) biases.

I'll be guesting Dec 30 for host Matt Hook at Mahoning's Saturday morning seminar. It's in the grandstand at 11AM.

Great to see you weigh in, Jeff. Merry xmas!!

cj
12-21-2017, 12:51 AM
The last two days have probably been the slowest dirt surface I've ever seen in North American, even slower than the Mountaineer winterized tracks from days gone by.

A little horn tooting, TimeformUS Power Picks had the winner of races 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, and 9 picked right on top. The other winners were picked second (R1) and third (R6). And this wasn't any chalkfest, the winners picked on top paid a combined $65 on top.

rrpic6
12-21-2017, 11:01 AM
The last two days have probably been the slowest dirt surface I've ever seen in North American, even slower than the Mountaineer winterized tracks from days gone by.

A little horn tooting, TimeformUS Power Picks had the winner of races 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, and 9 picked right on top. The other winners were picked second (R1) and third (R6). And this wasn't any chalkfest, the winners picked on top paid a combined $65 on top.

Great 'Capping! Hope you hit the Pick 6. It paid $1100 for $.20. When The Mountainman comes to MVR on December 30th, it is the must give away day for the Pick 6. The pool is now over 14K.

RR

cj
12-21-2017, 12:08 PM
Great 'Capping! Hope you hit the Pick 6. It paid $1100 for $.20. When The Mountainman comes to MVR on December 30th, it is the must give away day for the Pick 6. The pool is now over 14K.

RR

I didn't, I'm mostly a vertical guy. I have a hard enough time getting one race right! :)

rrpic6
12-22-2017, 07:20 PM
Should be lots of fun 'capping MVR races after Christmas. The barns are full and the entries are overflowing. 10 races on both 12/26 and 12/27. Post time is moved back to 12:15 both days. An average of 10.45 horses per race should appeal to everyone!

RR

mountainman
12-23-2017, 09:44 PM
Big day. Almost 3-1 on first race winner Wendy Peffercorn, who should have been 7/5. I'm sure that a perplexingly low beyer assigned to her Hawthorne race chilled the public considerably. The winner of that race had just crushed her debut for a 79, but supposedly regressed some 30 points (????) while taking her second start by more than 8 lengths?????????? I have simply never heard of or seen such a thing.

I also thought 2-1 was more than generous on Royal'd in the second. But the xmas score came on April Fools Vision ($25) in race-7. She's a deep closer who had travelled the final quarter in 24&change three back for an off-track win, and had made an uncharacteristically early move last start while racing on synthetics, which she detests.

Just an incredible track to bet.

BTW, FYI, fellow board members, most of the races were hand-timed today.

cj
12-23-2017, 09:52 PM
Big day. Almost 3-1 on first race winner Wendy Peffercorn, who should have been 7/5. I'm sure that a perplexingly low beyer assigned to her Hawthorne race chilled the public considerably. The winner of that race had just crushed her debut for a 79, but supposedly regressed some 30 points (????) while taking her second start by more than 8 lengths?????????? I have simply never heard of or seen such a thing.


Wonder if that was a typo on the figure? I had the winner of that race getting the same number in both starts. We're never that far apart on a race.

BTW, FYI, fellow board members, most of the races were hand-timed today.

This part is just pitiful. There is no excuse for this, been going on since the place opened.

mountainman
12-23-2017, 09:55 PM
Wonder if that was a typo on the figure? I had the winner of that race getting the same number in both starts. We're never that far apart on a race.

Glad you addressed it...was going to pm and ask about your number.

rrpic6
12-28-2017, 08:05 AM
The last two days have probably been the slowest dirt surface I've ever seen in North American, even slower than the Mountaineer winterized tracks from days gone by.

If you don't like the weather in Ohio, just wait for a few minutes. Or in this case, the track condition. 3 track records were set this past week at Mahoning Valley. Altissimo, an Ohio Bred no less, ran 6 furlongs in 108.63 Wednesday. Quite a feat despite the frozen surface. There is NO run up for 6 furlong races. On Tuesday, U and Tequila blazed 4 1/2 furlongs in 50.82. She is now 7 for 8 at MVR. In her only loss, she crossed the finish line 1st, but without a jockey aboard! The mile record was also broken in Race 1 on Wednesday.

Saturday is a must give away day for all pools. The Pick 4 has a carryover of over $12K while the $.20 pick 6 is at over $22K. The card looks tough to handicap. I wouldn't be surprised to see single tickets hit either pool.

Good Luck on Saturday!

RR

Whosonfirst
12-28-2017, 09:38 AM
Big day. Almost 3-1 on first race winner Wendy Peffercorn, who should have been 7/5. I'm sure that a perplexingly low beyer assigned to her Hawthorne race chilled the public considerably. The winner of that race had just crushed her debut for a 79, but supposedly regressed some 30 points (????) while taking her second start by more than 8 lengths?????????? I have simply never heard of or seen such a thing.

I also thought 2-1 was more than generous on Royal'd in the second. But the xmas score came on April Fools Vision ($25) in race-7. She's a deep closer who had travelled the final quarter in 24&change three back for an off-track win, and had made an uncharacteristically early move last start while racing on synthetics, which she detests.

Just an incredible track to bet.

BTW, FYI, fellow board members, most of the races were hand-timed today.
mm, how is the hand timing done? Does the timer(s) use binoculars from grandstand and snap a digital watch, or is the timing followed up by studying the video? Is it a single timer, or two or three and then averaged? When I first started going to the track, I tried this myself using binoc's and NEVER came close to the reported times, while sitting on the finish line.

cj
12-28-2017, 10:42 AM
If you don't like the weather in Ohio, just wait for a few minutes. Or in this case, the track condition. 3 track records were set this past week at Mahoning Valley. Altissimo, an Ohio Bred no less, ran 6 furlongs in 108.63 Wednesday. Quite a feat despite the frozen surface. There is NO run up for 6 furlong races. On Tuesday, U and Tequila blazed 4 1/2 furlongs in 50.82. She is now 7 for 8 at MVR. In her only loss, she crossed the finish line 1st, but without a jockey aboard! The mile record was also broken in Race 1 on Wednesday.

Saturday is a must give away day for all pools. The Pick 4 has a carryover of over $12K while the $.20 pick 6 is at over $22K. The card looks tough to handicap. I wouldn't be surprised to see single tickets hit either pool.

Good Luck on Saturday!

RR

LOL, same here in Oklahoma.

The consecutive racing days of the 23rd and the 26th are the biggest swings in track speed I've ever seen, and I don't even think it is close.

mountainman
12-28-2017, 10:45 PM
mm, how is the hand timing done? Does the timer(s) use binoculars from grandstand and snap a digital watch, or is the timing followed up by studying the video? Is it a single timer, or two or three and then averaged? When I first started going to the track, I tried this myself using binoc's and NEVER came close to the reported times, while sitting on the finish line.

One of the stewards hand times from the replay. Hand-timing is not done as a precautionary measure, nor because of forewarning about faulty equipment. It's done by a steward from the replay when necessary...fractions not included

Btw,,,it just amazes me how infrequently that surface becomes full-blown speed-biased. Not even a frozen track enabling supersonic times gives the early leader a real edge.

Also, fyi, there IS no run-up for 6-furlong races. Which might (just partially) explain why first quarter splits at that distance seem disproportionately slow.

mountainman
12-28-2017, 10:58 PM
LOL, same here in Oklahoma.

The consecutive racing days of the 23rd and the 26th are the biggest swings in track speed I've ever seen, and I don't even think it is close.

Mvr wasn't scraped. It was frozen just below the surface. How odd. At least to a guy whose home oval contains too many weird chemicals to conform to any law of science and temperature.

mountainman
12-28-2017, 11:02 PM
If you don't like the weather in Ohio, just wait for a few minutes. Or in this case, the track condition. 3 track records were set this past week at Mahoning Valley. Altissimo, an Ohio Bred no less, ran 6 furlongs in 108.63 Wednesday. Quite a feat despite the frozen surface. There is NO run up for 6 furlong races. On Tuesday, U and Tequila blazed 4 1/2 furlongs in 50.82. She is now 7 for 8 at MVR. In her only loss, she crossed the finish line 1st, but without a jockey aboard! The mile record was also broken in Race 1 on Wednesday.

Saturday is a must give away day for all pools. The Pick 4 has a carryover of over $12K while the $.20 pick 6 is at over $22K. The card looks tough to handicap. I wouldn't be surprised to see single tickets hit either pool.

Good Luck on Saturday!

RR

Boy, was it OVER when Tequila fell out of there in front?? lol...her achilles is a lack of quickness, but her top-speed is overwhelming.

cj
12-28-2017, 11:23 PM
Mvr wasn't scraped. It was frozen just below the surface. How odd. At least to a guy whose home oval contains too many weird chemicals to conform to any law of science and temperature.

Who said it was scraped?

mountainman
12-29-2017, 05:44 PM
Appearance at tomorrow's MVR seminar cancelled. Apparently, management nixed it because I've been critical of the place-which I have been in several regards.

It's their perogative, and I respect their right to run their facility and seminars as they see fit. But it is my right, of course, to continue being critical when I see fit.

And I WILL continue patronizing MVR and encouraging other players to do likewise. Just as I'll continue to generate handle by advising or partnering there with several big players who bet with both fists. It's a great track to bet on.

cj
12-29-2017, 05:47 PM
Appearance at tomorrow's MVR seminar cancelled. Apparently, management nixed it because I've been critical of the place-which I have been in several regards.

It's their perogative, and I respect their right to run their facility and seminars as they see fit. But it is my right, of course, to continue being critical when I see fit.

And I WILL continue patronizing MVR and encouraging other players to do likewise. Just as I'll continue to generate handle by advising or partnering there with several big players who bet with both fists. It's a great track to bet on.

Any place that can't time a race correctly after a few years deserves any criticism they get.

AstrosFan
12-29-2017, 07:52 PM
Appearance at tomorrow's MVR seminar cancelled. Apparently, management nixed it because I've been critical of the place-which I have been in several regards.

It's their perogative, and I respect their right to run their facility and seminars as they see fit. But it is my right, of course, to continue being critical when I see fit.

And I WILL continue patronizing MVR and encouraging other players to do likewise. Just as I'll continue to generate handle by advising or partnering there with several big players who bet with both fists. It's a great track to bet on.

Anything Penn Gaming related, especially to the sport of horse racing, is a colossal joke and why someone would even support them as a gambler is beyond me

mountainman
12-30-2017, 02:14 AM
Anything Penn Gaming related, especially to the sport of horse racing, is a colossal joke and why someone would even support them as a gambler is beyond me

Sub-par competition in the pools. The place is an absolute goldmine. Train your focus there and thank me later, sir.

cj
12-30-2017, 11:39 AM
Sub-par competition in the pools. The place is an absolute goldmine. Train your focus there and thank me later, sir.

I'd be careful inviting too much competition, pools aren't exactly NYRA size.

mountainman
12-30-2017, 04:14 PM
I'd be careful inviting too much competition, pools stent exactly NYRA size.

Actually, I need slightly bigger pools so my bets don't budge the odds. Not a big player, at all-but I do move the odds a bit if I really like a longshot. And my characteristic 70 or 80 to win on shorter priced locks (??..lol) also puts a nick in my payoff.

And that's not considering the 2 or 3 guys I sometimes advise. They mainly play gimmicks, but a standard win bet for them is from 100 to 200 bucks.

I'd love to increase my bets, but I'd sometimes be cannibalizing myself-at least a little.

mountainman
12-30-2017, 08:27 PM
Fresh snow made traction unsafe by balling up in the horse's feet.

AstrosFan
12-30-2017, 09:40 PM
Sub-par competition in the pools. The place is an absolute goldmine. Train your focus there and thank me later, sir.

For me:

Timing issues, integrity issues, company issues.

3 Strikes and they are OUT


For Mr. Patterson:

You may goldmine away my friend! Kick their A$$ :headbanger:

Jeff P
01-22-2018, 12:25 PM
Good to see them racing again.

Question for anyone attending the races live on track:

Today, at about the one minute mark after the listed post time for R1, the horses were returned to the paddock - and a distance change was announced:

6F to 5.5F.

Anyone know specifics as to why?


-jp

.

cj
01-22-2018, 12:29 PM
Good to see them racing again.

Question for anyone attending the races live on track:

Today, at about the one minute mark after the listed post time for R1, the horses were returned to the paddock - and a distance change was announced:

6F to 5.5F.

Anyone know specifics as to why?


-jp

.

Has to be problem in the chute I'd think.

Jeff P
01-22-2018, 12:32 PM
Appears to be the case.

After R2, they announced all of the remaining 6F races... R3, R8, R10 will now be run at 5.5F.


-jp

.

rrpic6
01-23-2018, 07:01 PM
[QUOTE=Jeff P;2264732]Good to see them racing again.

Question for anyone attending the races live on track:

Today, at about the one minute mark after the listed post time for R1, the horses were returned to the paddock - and a distance change was announced:

6F to 5.5F.

Anyone know specifics as to why?


-jp

After an ice storm and a total of 9 inches of snow, racing resumed on Monday. The ensuing thaw made the 6 furlong chute a quagmire. The truck that steers the starting gate could not set up properly due to the deep mud. The chute is tricky, as it never sees sunlight, so it's surface can remain icy longer than the rest of the track.

RR

rrpic6
01-23-2018, 07:05 PM
A shout-out to my pal Larry "Big Daddy" who hit the Buckeye Pick 6 today for over $5800. He played it on track, starting off with 2 singles, the 1st one being a $35.00 horse! He had the only 2 live tickets going into the last leg. They ran 1st and 2nd! Talk about STUPID POOLS!:jump:

RR

Jeff P
01-24-2018, 03:47 PM
Remainder of card cancelled after R7 (the first leg of the pick4.)

Gotta give them credit for doing the right thing:

All pick4 wagers refunded. :ThmbUp:


-jp

.

mountainman
01-30-2018, 11:41 PM
Hook gaining cred amongst players. They pay attention to his picks.

As a jock's agent, former official, on-screen handicapper, and avid bettor, the dude has real chops and elevates the joint. Quite an asset to his employers.

rastajenk
01-31-2018, 02:37 AM
I like to listen to him. He is doing well in that spot.

rrpic6
01-31-2018, 09:25 AM
Hook gaining cred amongst players. They pay attention to his picks.

As a jock's agent, former official, on-screen handicapper, and avid bettor, the dude has real chops and elevates the joint. Quite an asset to his employers.

Matt definitely knows Ohio racing. Only flaw is sometimes his Morning Lines are off from mine. Not to be a jerk, but mine are more accurate. I'll use today's 5th Race as an example. The ML of entry mates #1 Eightthehardway and #1A Mixed Colors are 15-1. They are Ohio Breds facing open company in a NW2 other than Allowance. If they both run, I see them going off at 7-2. If the #1 scratches then 15-1 is accurate. If #1A scratches, Eighttheharday still goes off at 6-1. He's won 7 of his 8 lifetime races at MVR, including the last 2 runnings of the 75K Ruff/Kirchberb Memorial Handicap for Ohio Breds. BRIS ranks him 1st in Prime Power and 4th in average speed rating.

RR

PS. I still miss buddy McGary. He helped put Mahoning Valley on the map.

mountainman
01-31-2018, 11:47 AM
I've probably done 40,000 races as an official ML maker and was rated the 12th most accurate in America by an impartial study. But I still commit grievous errors-usually from rushing through it-that make me want to kick myself.

It's a thankless job. And it's easy to sit back and cherry pick obvious mistakes. I mean, how could you NOT see the wildly innacurate price-point assigned the coupling you mentioned?? I caught it last night.

Sometimes , even an accurate oddsmaker looks back at his work and says to himself: " Sweet Jesus, WHAT was I thinking??"

Btw, I like John, too, and respect him very much. But Hook's vast experience in so many aspects of the game make him uniquely qualified for his duties.

Hope all is well with your wagers and tip card. Had surgery last Wed, but now back in the swing and playing Mvr everyday.

mountainman
02-03-2018, 09:14 PM
Late tote shifts-big ones-based on track bias.

rrpic6
02-04-2018, 04:07 AM
Late tote shifts-big ones-based on track bias.

Sitting off the pace from outside posts worked all day Saturday in sprints and routes. The lone exception was Race 2, where the winner and 2nd place finishers came from the 1 and 2 slots. My top pick on the tipsheet in Race 8, #11 Royal Baby got hammered down from ML 8-1 to 8/5 (biting lip on Morning Lines..LOL). Hope you are recovering from surgery and back to firing away Mark.

RR

rrpic6
02-06-2018, 07:00 PM
6 year old Seas Courage tries again to break his maiden in Wednesday's 8th Race at Mahoning Valley. It's a mile race for Ohio Bred's. He draws Post 9. Outside posts have been brutal in MILE races. Outside posts at any other distances have been Golden lately. His ML is 5-1. Oh Yea.....he's 0 for 54! More than half way home to Zippy Chippy territory. Is he currently holding the longest 0-fer streak in racing?

RR

Jeff P
02-07-2018, 04:13 PM
I think it's possible that Berrios (aboard Seas Courage) may have just set a record for finding the most traffic or total elapsed time hindered by traffic in a race. If not a record since the track first opened, then certainly in the running for a record since opening day for the current meet.


-jp

.

mountainman
02-10-2018, 10:58 PM
Sitting off the pace from outside posts worked all day Saturday in sprints and routes. The lone exception was Race 2, where the winner and 2nd place finishers came from the 1 and 2 slots. My top pick on the tipsheet in Race 8, #11 Royal Baby got hammered down from ML 8-1 to 8/5 (biting lip on Morning Lines..LOL). Hope you are recovering from surgery and back to firing away Mark.

RR

Tx, pal. Path bias does wield greater and more predictable influence at sprint distances. In routes, mitigating factors come into play.

Just released from second hospital stay-this time four days-necessitated by post surgical complications.

mountainman
02-13-2018, 03:39 PM
Abysmal cards at Mahoning have become a real issue for me. Given the purse hikes, I expected better. Instead, the decline in quality from last season, when appealing alw/optionals and even NC alw races were frequently offered, has been jarring.

True, the size of their cheapest fields remains-in some cases-a legitimate lure, and the mandated focus there on ohio- bred events will always drag them down, but only a shameless apologist could really defend what they have been churning out in Austintown.

And before interpreting this post as biased or self-serving on the part of a Mnr employee, please remember that NOBODY has recommended MVR more often or with more enthusiasm than me. My numerous endorsements, both on here and on our show, are a matter of record.

bello
02-13-2018, 07:29 PM
Abysmal cards at Mahoning have become a real issue for me. Given the purse hikes, I expected better. Instead, the decline in quality from last season, when appealing alw/optionals and even NC alw races were frequently offered, has been jarring.

True, the size of their cheapest fields remains-in some cases-a legitimate lure, and the mandated focus there on ohio- bred events will always drag them down, but only a shameless apologist could really defend what they have been churning out in Austintown.

And before interpreting this post as biased or self-serving on the part of a Mnr employee, please remember that NOBODY has recommended MVR more often or with more enthusiasm than me. My numerous endorsements, both on here and on our show, are a matter of record.

I took a stab there early in the meet. Had a few winning days and more losing days. But the amount of shippers being jammed into races that were totally lame and unfit to race was a real turnoff. Not for me. Seemed to be no oversight at all.

rrpic6
02-14-2018, 09:09 AM
The Valentine's Day card at MVR is a nice one. Purses average over 17K for the 8 races. There are 2 open 10K races, 2 Maiden Special Weights, 1 open the other for Ohio Breds. A Starter Allowance with a 16K purse featuring Pacific Image who won 8 races in 2017. One Maiden Claiming race, one conditioned claiming race and the other a Non-winners of 3 lifetime claiming race. Each of those 3 races have at least 10K in total purse money. Purses were raised by 5% at the start of 2018.

Just look to Gulfstream that has a steady diet of $6250 claimers on dirt or $16K conditioned turf races or California that has equally low level claimers running daily.

I can think of only 4 horses that have broken down and had to be put down since the meet opened last October. No racing occurred for over 10 straight days in January due to freezing rain, ice and heavy snow. The track maintenance is superb. The biases can change in a heart beat. With the constant freezing and thawing this time of year, handicapping is a true challenge. Stick with it boys!

RR

bello
02-14-2018, 11:17 AM
Love your enthusiasm RR and I will give MVR another shot for sure.

One of my betting patterns at the Mountain was keying on certain shippers from certain tracks....love the FL shippers as as example.

Maybe it was an anomaly, and certainly what applies at one track does not work universally, or it would be an easy game. But the shippers I played ( not sure what constitutes a breakdown) where ill prepared to race or just plain lame.

I always defended the smaller tracks as a home for slower horses that still could and should be racing. Small infirmaries and age very well may be part of their issues. But it seemed to me some of the horses racing just should not have been on the track and seemed to be there for one last hail mary to be claimed. I never felt that at Mtneer or CT.

I am willing to give it another whirl as I love the secondary and tertiary tracks and want to support them with my wagering dollars.

rrpic6
02-14-2018, 06:50 PM
Welcome back Bello and best of luck to you!

Congrats to the lone winner of the Buckeye Pick 6 today! It paid $31,187. Not really that hard to get to IMO. The results for each leg were:
Race 3: $6.60
Race 4: $11.00
Race 5: $4.80
Race 6: $10.40
Race 7: $4.20
Race 8: $8.00 (My top pick on my tipsheet. Morning Line was 8-1).

Pacific Image, winner of 8 races in 2017, won his 1st race of 2018 easily in Race 2.

RR

mountainman
02-15-2018, 12:50 AM
The Valentine's Day card at MVR is a nice one. Purses average over 17K for the 8 races. There are 2 open 10K races, 2 Maiden Special Weights, 1 open the other for Ohio Breds. A Starter Allowance with a 16K purse featuring Pacific Image who won 8 races in 2017. One Maiden Claiming race, one conditioned claiming race and the other a Non-winners of 3 lifetime claiming race. Each of those 3 races have at least 10K in total purse money. Purses were raised by 5% at the start of 2018.

Just look to Gulfstream that has a steady diet of $6250 claimers on dirt or $16K conditioned turf races or California that has equally low level claimers running daily.

I can think of only 4 horses that have broken down and had to be put down since the meet opened last October. No racing occurred for over 10 straight days in January due to freezing rain, ice and heavy snow. The track maintenance is superb. The biases can change in a heart beat. With the constant freezing and thawing this time of year, handicapping is a true challenge. Stick with it boys!

RR

Loved today's card and capitalized by virtue of the distinct bias. But higher-grade programs are to be expected for awhile as a result of mvr's better horses having been "starved out" by the spate of cancellations. (and should not be overrated as a positive omen)

After 29 years experience writing and filling races, I'm sure I look at different barometers than most handicappers, but I don't think the arrow is pointed up.

Let me stress that the office crew should not shoulder blame. Those guys do a nice job and have been bombarded by enough negative rumors. And I commend the director's pro-active approach in monitoring the quality of mvr racing.

Hope your play has been profitable. Late tote movement based on bias still occurring.

mountainman
02-15-2018, 09:47 AM
Welcome back Bello and best of luck to you!

Congrats to the lone winner of the Buckeye Pick 6 today! It paid $31,187. Not really that hard to get to IMO. The results for each leg were:
Race 3: $6.60
Race 4: $11.00
Race 5: $4.80
Race 6: $10.40
Race 7: $4.20
Race 8: $8.00 (My top pick on my tipsheet. Morning Line was 8-1).

Pacific Image, winner of 8 races in 2017, won his 1st race of 2018 easily in Race 2.

RR

Circumstances greatly favored Pacific Image. The rail post figured a tomb for Gold Ekati, a suspect gate horse who had come away poorly from the inside once or twice on form, but broke like a shot last time when narrowly beating the Gary Johnson runner.

Perhaps ominously, Gold Ekati, with two(?) dnf's on form, not to mention a glaring year-plus away from action at one point, switched leads in a somewhat belated manner yesterday. Would love to see a rubber match, and my gut says Gold Ekati remains the slightly better horse. But post positions and the break call would weigh heavily on the outcome, and Pacific Image strikes me as likelier to hold form.

My real score yesterday, however, was that 9-8 exacta in the open 10 at 5-fur. What in the WORLD do people who bet the 1-horse use for brains??? Given the distinct possibility that Bebopaleon would outfoot him, and the obvious path-trend in play, the J Rad speedball had zero shot. The winner exploited a perfect trip enhanced by a slick rating job, but stayed leftie and won with difficulty

mountainman
02-15-2018, 03:50 PM
Just learned that new casino, smoking permitted, soon goes up in New Castle, PA.

Reliable accounts that certain Mvr employees ( compassionate fellows, right to the end) are expressing sympathy for the looming drain on OUR business. Er, ahhhh..tx, boys, but, looked at a map lately??

Might wana do that. Just sayin.'

Ominous.















\

rrpic6
02-15-2018, 05:47 PM
Just learned that new casino, smoking permitted, soon goes up in New Castle, PA.

Reliable accounts that certain Mvr employees ( compassionate fellows, right to the end) are expressing sympathy for the looming drain on OUR business. Er, ahhhh..tx, boys, but, looked at a map lately??

Might wana do that. Just sayin.'

Ominous.\

The Grove City Mall area makes sense for the new Mini-Casino in play by Mt. Airy. More competition and saturation of the gambling dollar is always a concern. No OTB for horse betting a good thing if and when it is built. Of bigger concern is when the Supreme Court rules that sports betting is legal in all states. Slot players and horse players are like water and oil. A few slot players wander in the OTB at MVR and might bet $2.00 to show on number #3 while pointing at "that track over there". Most leave soon after. Horse players and those that bet on football, basketball, etc. are family. That's where the meaningful dollars will be fought over.

RR



http://www.ncnewsonline.com/news/mini-casino-could-end-up-in-mercer-county-not-lawrence/article_24ff6bd3-2b6d-5af8-914d-daf078ad332b.html

mountainman
02-15-2018, 08:03 PM
The Grove City Mall area makes sense for the new Mini-Casino in play by Mt. Airy. More competition and saturation of the gambling dollar is always a concern. No OTB for horse betting a good thing if and when it is built. Of bigger concern is when the Supreme Court rules that sports betting is legal in all states. Slot players and horse players are like water and oil. A few slot players wander in the OTB at MVR and might bet $2.00 to show on number #3 while pointing at "that track over there". Most leave soon after. Horse players and those that bet on football, basketball, etc. are family. That's where the meaningful dollars will be fought over.

RR



http://www.ncnewsonline.com/news/mini-casino-could-end-up-in-mercer-county-not-lawrence/article_24ff6bd3-2b6d-5af8-914d-daf078ad332b.html



Whatever the case, Ron, Mvr will almost certainly survive long enough to serve our respective purposes.

And concerning the ignorance of slots players, seasoned horse-bettors that saunter to the window like Wyatt Earp headed to the OK Corral, lean down and rest chin in hand as if relieving the weight of the world from their shoulders, whisper to the clerk as if conveying the secret of life, and 10 min later fork over 6 bux for the bazillion 2 cent tickets they purchased absolutely enrage me. I could go Lou Ferrigno.