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Ocala Mike
12-01-2017, 09:40 AM
The investigation is inside the White House now. With Watergate, it was "follow the money." and with the Russia investigation, it is "follow the lies."

The noose tightens - get ready for tweet storms and pardons.

JustRalph
12-01-2017, 09:44 AM
The investigation is inside the White House now. With Watergate, it was "follow the money." and with the Russia investigation, it is "follow the lies."

The noose tightens - get ready for tweet storms and pardons.

Your kidding right? This is akin to the Martha Stewart case......he is guilty of an after the fact crime? They must have very little or nothing.....

chadk66
12-01-2017, 10:42 AM
haha yea this just proves how big of a case Mueller has :pound:. His biggest burger he fries is going to be a guy that lied to the FBI. The same thing Hillary did and got away with :lol:

_______
12-01-2017, 11:01 AM
This is how a plea deal works:

The witness pleads guilty to a more minor charge. The prosecutor holds more serious charges in his back pocket that can be brought out if the witness doesn’t cooperate.

So everyone is right that this charge isn’t all that big a deal. But this charge isn’t the point. The witnesses cooperation is the point.

Fager Fan
12-01-2017, 11:49 AM
haha yea this just proves how big of a case Mueller has :pound:. His biggest burger he fries is going to be a guy that lied to the FBI. The same thing Hillary did and got away with :lol:

That's what I'd be tweeting this morning. Where are the charges against Hillary for lying (multiple, multiple times)?

So far a big nothing burger.

Fager Fan
12-01-2017, 11:50 AM
This is how a plea deal works:

The witness pleads guilty to a more minor charge. The prosecutor holds more serious charges in his back pocket that can be brought out if the witness doesn’t cooperate.

So everyone is right that this charge isn’t all that big a deal. But this charge isn’t the point. The witnesses cooperation is the point.

In other words, blackmail?

chadk66
12-01-2017, 11:54 AM
How many millions of dollars spent to convict three people on petty shit? :pound:

OntheRail
12-01-2017, 12:07 PM
How many millions of dollars spent to convict three people on petty shit? :pound:

Way to many... anyone with half a brain knew this was a farce from the get-go. :coffee:

FantasticDan
12-01-2017, 12:19 PM
In other words, blackmail?:D Have you never seen an episode of Law & Order at least? :rolleyes:

Fager Fan
12-01-2017, 01:04 PM
:D Have you never seen an episode of Law & Order at least? :rolleyes:

Have you ever considered how wrong it is to make plea deals?

chadk66
12-01-2017, 01:11 PM
who the hell wouldn't take that plea deal. you know you won't serve a minute in jail and it won't cost you hundreds of thousands in legal fees :pound:. And all you have to do is make shit up to satisfy the plea agreement :lol:

_______
12-01-2017, 01:34 PM
Has anyone else noticed the disappearance of Jared Kushner’s profile in the administration?

Anyone want to join me in speculating about who the “high level transition figure” that directed Flynn to meet with the Russian ambassador would be?

I love all the “this is all they got?!?” defensiveness when the first shoe falls.

The answer is no. This isn’t all they got. But good luck. I’m sure the cult will have an answer for the next set of indictments just as entertaining.

Fager Fan
12-01-2017, 01:38 PM
Has anyone else noticed the disappearance of Jared Kushner’s profile in the administration?

Anyone want to join me in speculating about who the “high level transition figure” that directed Flynn to meet with the Russian ambassador would be?

I love all the “this is all they got?!?” defensiveness when the first shoe falls.

The answer is no. This isn’t all they got. But good luck. I’m sure the cult will have an answer for the next set of indictments just as entertaining.

So what if someone directed Flynn to meet with the Russian ambassador? Where's the crime there, Big Blank?

_______
12-01-2017, 01:38 PM
In other words, blackmail?


Yes. They have Flynn and his son on far more serious charges and that is the leverage they will use.

It’s how they rolled up the mafia and it’s what they are using now.

_______
12-01-2017, 01:39 PM
:headbanger:

So what if someone directed Flynn to meet with the Russian ambassador? Where's the crime there, Big Blank?

I guess we’ll have to wait to find out since all they’ve announced is the plea deal so far.

Fager Fan
12-01-2017, 01:45 PM
Yes. They have Flynn and his son on far more serious charges and that is the leverage they will use.

It’s how they rolled up the mafia and it’s what they are using now.

Really? What are those charges? And what do they have to do with Trump colluding with the Russian government to rig an election?

It should be illegal to lesson the penalties for someone who committed a criminal act if they'll talk. That applies across the board, I'm not talking about this case. Get them under oath, and they'll talk, and if they lie, then get them with perjury, and perjury again, and perjury again, until they realize that lying isn't working out real well for them. Instead, they know they can get out of a criminal problem by talking and plea deals. It's unethical.

Clocker
12-01-2017, 01:50 PM
Has anyone else noticed the disappearance of Jared Kushner’s profile in the administration?

Anyone want to join me in speculating about who the “high level transition figure” that directed Flynn to meet with the Russian ambassador would be?



David French at the National Review explains that directing Flynn to meet with the Russian may or may not be a problem. If meeting with the Russians is not a problem, lying about it is.

ABC also reports that Flynn is willing to testify against Trump and members of the Trump family. Now, before everyone starts yelling “collusion,” the report said nothing about why Trump allegedly directed him to reach out to Russia. If it was contact for election collusion, that’s dire. I also think that’s highly unlikely. If it was contact to set the stage for post-election relations and cooperation, that’s far less problematic — unless members of the Trump administration (or Trump family) have been lying to the FBI about those contacts. So, we could be looking at less of a criminal conspiracy and more of a festival of lies surrounding a non-conspiracy. That’s at least consistent with the guilty pleas (Flynn and Papadopoulos) so far. Stay tuned.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/454264/michael-flynn-charge-monstrous-injustice-or-prelude-bigger-things

Clocker
12-01-2017, 02:11 PM
Also at the National Review, Andrew C. McCarthy, a former Asst. United States Attorney, explains why the Flynn deal strongly suggests that Mueller has no case for collusion, and is just going after charges of lying to the FBI against as many in the administration as possible.

If Flynn was involved in a collusion scheme, the bargain would have to be to plead guilty to the scheme and to the lying, and then the collusion charge is dropped. If Flynn doesn't plead guilty to the collusion scheme, Mueller has no proof of collusion and has no evidence to proceed against Trump and company. But it appears that Flynn's plea is enough for Mueller to get others for lying.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/454269/michael-flynn-plea-no-breakthrough-russia-investigation

woodtoo
12-01-2017, 02:16 PM
Mike Flynn will get more time in jail for one lie to the FBI than Kate Steinle murderer.

One a decorated General the other an illegal immigrant murderer. Logic off.

Tom
12-01-2017, 03:17 PM
Still waiting for some to tell me exactly how the RUSSIANS effected the election......other than, at the worst, revealing the truth.

Much more solid evidence to put the Hag away for the rest of her miserable life, a bitch who actually put national security at risk for her own personal gain.

If, at the end of the day, Trump did everything the lefties are saying he did, then I guess we should give him a medal, maybe a Nobel Prize, a real one, not a FAUX Prize. And, bow when he passes! :pound::pound::headbanger:

Clocker
12-01-2017, 03:27 PM
Still waiting for some to tell me exactly how the RUSSIANS effected the election......other than, at the worst, revealing the truth.



They must have done it with a top-secret Russian time machine, since Flynn's alleged collusion meetings took place in late December, almost 2 months after the election.

mostpost
12-01-2017, 03:30 PM
Also at the National Review, Andrew C. McCarthy, a former Asst. United States Attorney, explains why the Flynn deal strongly suggests that Mueller has no case for collusion, and is just going after charges of lying to the FBI against as many in the administration as possible.

If Flynn was involved in a collusion scheme, the bargain would have to be to plead guilty to the scheme and to the lying, and then the collusion charge is dropped. If Flynn doesn't plead guilty to the collusion scheme, Mueller has no proof of collusion and has no evidence to proceed against Trump and company. But it appears that Flynn's plea is enough for Mueller to get others for lying.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/454269/michael-flynn-plea-no-breakthrough-russia-investigation
Apparently_______ is the only one in this thread who knows what a plea deal is. There are two types of plea deals. In the first, the prosecution has a weak, but plausible case. The accused pleads to a lesser charge to avoid jail time or onerous legal fees. In the second case, the prosecution has a strong case against the individual, but offers a plea deal to gain his testimony against other involved individuals.

The second option is clearly the case here. Don't be fooled by the fact that Mueller has not as yet made any charges against persons higher up in the Trump administration. You don't put on the roof before you have finished the foundation.

Of course these plea deals are contingent on the continued cooperation of the individual. If that is not forth coming you can be sure the charges will be upgraded.

JustRalph
12-01-2017, 03:32 PM
The contact with Russia came after the election.

They will scream Trump was undermining Obama's sanctions.

Trump loses no supporters for undermining Obama......

BFD

tundral
12-01-2017, 03:43 PM
Small fish to get Donald Duck . His days numbered in White House.
Next Kushner then chump .

JustRalph
12-01-2017, 03:44 PM
From Andrew McCarthy

"Nevertheless, as I explained in connection with George Papadopoulos (who also pled guilty in Mueller’s investigation for lying to the FBI), when a prosecutor has a cooperator who was an accomplice in a major criminal scheme, the cooperator is made to plead guilty to the scheme. This is critical because it proves the existence of the scheme. In his guilty-plea allocution (the part of a plea proceeding in which the defendant admits what he did that makes him guilty), the accomplice explains the scheme and the actions taken by himself and his co-conspirators to carry it out. This goes a long way toward proving the case against all of the subjects of the investigation.

That is not happening in Flynn’s situation. Instead, like Papadopoulos, he is being permitted to plead guilty to a mere process crime. A breaking report from ABC News indicates that Flynn is prepared to testify that Trump directed him to make contact with the Russians — initially to lay the groundwork for mutual efforts against ISIS in Syria. That, however, is exactly the sort of thing the incoming national-security adviser is supposed to do in a transition phase between administrations. If it were part of the basis for a “collusion” case arising out of Russia’s election meddling, then Flynn would not be pleading guilty to a process crime — he’d be pleading guilty to an espionage conspiracy.

Understand: If Flynn’s conversations with the Russian ambassador had evinced the existence of a quid pro quo collusion arrangement — that the Trump administration would ease or eliminate sanctions on Russia as a payback for Russia’s cyber-espionage against the Hillary Clinton campaign and the Democratic party — it would have been completely appropriate, even urgently necessary, for the Obama Justice Department to investigate Flynn. But if that had happened, Mueller would not be permitting Flynn to settle the case with a single count of lying to FBI agents. Instead, we would be looking at a major conspiracy indictment, and Flynn would be made to plead to far more serious offenses if he wanted a deal — cooperation in exchange for sentencing leniency."

It's a Martha Stewart case.........they normally end up making the prosecution look bad in reflection.

Clocker
12-01-2017, 03:49 PM
The second option is clearly the case here. Don't be fooled by the fact that Mueller has not as yet made any charges against persons higher up in the Trump administration. You don't put on the roof before you have finished the foundation.

Of course these plea deals are contingent on the continued cooperation of the individual. If that is not forth coming you can be sure the charges will be upgraded.

That's what the McCarthy article said. Flynn's cooperation will be used to develop charges against others in the administration. And that "upgraded" charges against Flynn or others in the administration are highly unlikely, given that such charges were not cited in Flynn's plea bargain.

McCarthy, based on his experience as an Assistant United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, is saying that it is doubtful that Mueller has the evidence to prove collusion against anyone, and is going for the lying charges against anyone he can.

chadk66
12-01-2017, 04:15 PM
man the liberals are going to all commit suicide when nothing happens from all this. It's gonna be awesome to watch.

onefast99
12-01-2017, 04:45 PM
Really? What are those charges? And what do they have to do with Trump colluding with the Russian government to rig an election?

It should be illegal to lesson the penalties for someone who committed a criminal act if they'll talk. That applies across the board, I'm not talking about this case. Get them under oath, and they'll talk, and if they lie, then get them with perjury, and perjury again, and perjury again, until they realize that lying isn't working out real well for them. Instead, they know they can get out of a criminal problem by talking and plea deals. It's unethical.
Water boarding will make a big comeback per Trumps tweet...
once again this is a bunch of crap the feds working on this shows the American people that they the feds are a bunch of blowhards who can't convict a ham sandwich.

boxcar
12-01-2017, 05:15 PM
From Andrew McCarthy

"Nevertheless, as I explained in connection with George Papadopoulos (who also pled guilty in Mueller’s investigation for lying to the FBI), when a prosecutor has a cooperator who was an accomplice in a major criminal scheme, the cooperator is made to plead guilty to the scheme. This is critical because it proves the existence of the scheme. In his guilty-plea allocution (the part of a plea proceeding in which the defendant admits what he did that makes him guilty), the accomplice explains the scheme and the actions taken by himself and his co-conspirators to carry it out. This goes a long way toward proving the case against all of the subjects of the investigation.

That is not happening in Flynn’s situation. Instead, like Papadopoulos, he is being permitted to plead guilty to a mere process crime. A breaking report from ABC News indicates that Flynn is prepared to testify that Trump directed him to make contact with the Russians — initially to lay the groundwork for mutual efforts against ISIS in Syria. That, however, is exactly the sort of thing the incoming national-security adviser is supposed to do in a transition phase between administrations. If it were part of the basis for a “collusion” case arising out of Russia’s election meddling, then Flynn would not be pleading guilty to a process crime — he’d be pleading guilty to an espionage conspiracy.

Understand: If Flynn’s conversations with the Russian ambassador had evinced the existence of a quid pro quo collusion arrangement — that the Trump administration would ease or eliminate sanctions on Russia as a payback for Russia’s cyber-espionage against the Hillary Clinton campaign and the Democratic party — it would have been completely appropriate, even urgently necessary, for the Obama Justice Department to investigate Flynn. But if that had happened, Mueller would not be permitting Flynn to settle the case with a single count of lying to FBI agents. Instead, we would be looking at a major conspiracy indictment, and Flynn would be made to plead to far more serious offenses if he wanted a deal — cooperation in exchange for sentencing leniency."

It's a Martha Stewart case.........they normally end up making the prosecution look bad in reflection.

Dead on Target! This is all this is: Another Martha Stewart stunt. :ThmbUp:

JustRalph
12-01-2017, 05:17 PM
man the liberals are going to all commit suicide when nothing happens from all this. It's gonna be awesome to watch.

Lots will happen. They will drag this out 4-8 years. If Trump can get re-elected we are going to live with this forever.

Trump should have fired Mueller, issued blanket pardons to everyone on their radar and moved on. His supporters would love him for taking the wind out of all this bullshit. But now we are going to be hearing about this shit show forever.

Trump has made a grave mis-calculation. They are going to charge everybody they can and see what sticks. It’s like Iran Contra. Most were vindicated in that shit show by appeals courts years after the fact.

woodtoo
12-01-2017, 05:21 PM
Flynn guilty plea is the same reason he was fired by the Trump administration.

Now he is colluding with the Mueller investigation. Sweet.

woodtoo
12-01-2017, 05:24 PM
Meeting or colluding with Russians isn't the crime, lying to the FBI was.

boxcar
12-01-2017, 07:02 PM
Lots will happen. They will drag this out 4-8 years. If Trump can get re-elected we are going to live with this forever.

Trump should have fired Mueller, issued blanket pardons to everyone on their radar and moved on. His supporters would love him for taking the wind out of all this bullshit. But now we are going to be hearing about this shit show forever.

Trump has made a grave mis-calculation. They are going to charge everybody they can and see what sticks. It’s like Iran Contra. Most were vindicated in that shit show by appeals courts years after the fact.

Again, I think you're right on the mark. The Dems chose to ride this one-trick pony from the git go and since it's the only nag they own, they'll beat this poor beast to its dying breath.

One possible way to short-circuit their pony is for Trump to fire Sessions, appoint another AG and have this guy clean house.

woodtoo
12-01-2017, 07:11 PM
The most dirt Flynn has is on Podesta, Hillary and Obama he was in this administration. He was with Trump administration for a rather short time.

Plus he is more loyal to them (Trump).

chadk66
12-01-2017, 08:02 PM
Again, I think you're right on the mark. The Dems chose to ride this one-trick pony from the git go and since it's the only nag they own, they'll beat this poor beast to its dying breath.

One possible way to short-circuit their pony is for Trump to fire Sessions, appoint another AG and have this guy clean house.I don't know if there is a clean enough individual to appoint that could do that. Seems anybody that would desire too has skeletons that would be exposed if they did. We're just screwed it appears. If Trump seriously thought about this there is no way in hell someone that served in the congress as long as Sessions has could be clean enough to not worry about stepping on toes.

JustRalph
12-01-2017, 09:50 PM
I don't know if there is a clean enough individual to appoint that could do that. Seems anybody that would desire too has skeletons that would be exposed if they did. We're just screwed it appears. If Trump seriously thought about this there is no way in hell someone that served in the congress as long as Sessions has could be clean enough to not worry about stepping on toes.

Ted Cruz. But he won’t do it.

jocko699
12-01-2017, 09:52 PM
Ted Cruz. But he won’t do it.

Senator Lankford or Mike Huckabee.

JustRalph
12-01-2017, 11:03 PM
CLARIFICATION of ABC News Special Report: Flynn prepared to testify that President-elect Donald Trump directed him to make contact with the Russians *during the transition* -- initially as a way to work together to fight ISIS in Syria, confidant now says. http://abcn.ws/2ixWHDL https://twitter.com/ABC/status/936760299146956800/photo/1

OntheRail
12-01-2017, 11:06 PM
I don't know if there is a clean enough individual to appoint that could do that. Seems anybody that would desire too has skeletons that would be exposed if they did. We're just screwed it appears. If Trump seriously thought about this there is no way in hell someone that served in the congress as long as Sessions has could be clean enough to not worry about stepping on toes.

Rudolph William Louis Giuliani... :headbanger:

Hank
12-01-2017, 11:06 PM
:lol::pound::D

MutuelClerk
12-01-2017, 11:15 PM
Still waiting for some to tell me exactly how the RUSSIANS effected the election......other than, at the worst, revealing the truth.


Easy Tom. They may have posted lies about Hillary on the internet. Before that no one ever lied before on the internet that Al Gore discovered.

In hindsight it was stupid. Why lie about Hillary when all you had to do was the tell the truth.

Fager Fan
12-02-2017, 01:30 AM
Mike Flynn will get more time in jail for one lie to the FBI than Kate Steinle murderer.

One a decorated General the other an illegal immigrant murderer. Logic off.

What would be hysterical if this was in any way amusing is that someone can be in huge trouble for supposedly lying during an investigation that shouldn't even have happened.

Their problem it seems is that they didn't have Hillary's lawyer. Either way nothing or say you don't know or don't remember. Even if you're clearly lying about not knowing or not remembering, apparently that's not lying.

barahona44
12-02-2017, 07:29 AM
With all the threads on sexual harassment, I thought at first the name of the thread was "Flynn Cops a Feel" :D

zico20
12-02-2017, 07:51 AM
What would be hysterical if this was in any way amusing is that someone can be in huge trouble for supposedly lying during an investigation that shouldn't even have happened.

Their problem it seems is that they didn't have Hillary's lawyer. Either way nothing or say you don't know or don't remember. Even if you're clearly lying about not knowing or not remembering, apparently that's not lying.

He will learn those four famous words EVERY politician knows. "I do not recall." Some say it over 100 times when they are in a congressional hearing. He will be told to say it by his lawyer.

Tom
12-02-2017, 08:10 AM
Flynn guilty plea is the same reason he was fired by the Trump administration.

Now he is colluding with the Mueller investigation. Sweet.

The RUSSIANS have more credibility the Bueller people:headbanger:

Tom
12-02-2017, 08:12 AM
With all the threads on sexual harassment, I thought at first the name of the thread was "Flynn Cops a Feel" :D

Now that's funny! :pound::pound::pound:

reckless
12-02-2017, 09:27 AM
In other words, blackmail?

:D Have you never seen an episode of Law & Order at least? :rolleyes:

I'm a Perry Mason fan myself. Did Hamilton Berger or Lt. Arthur Trage ever act this way?

Tom
12-02-2017, 09:58 AM
Ah, good old Ham Burger! :ThmbUp:

davew
12-02-2017, 11:26 PM
so they got a couple for 'lying to the FBI', when are they going to get Hillary?

elysiantraveller
12-03-2017, 12:13 AM
Trumps Twitter account may get him in trouble again if it appears he and his aides knew about Flynn lying to the FBI prior to correspondence with Comey.

They say his chief lawyer drafted it. At worst it is obstruction of justice and at best it looks bad PR wise. Wonder what they were thinking. :confused:

chadk66
12-03-2017, 09:20 AM
So after a year Mueller has busted three people for basically J walking :pound: I'm sure there is certainly going to be some shoplifting charges coming. But not till he has spent 100 million or so :lol:

classhandicapper
12-03-2017, 09:41 AM
This whole thing is nonsense so far.

1. The reason for the special prosecutor was to find evidence Trump or his subordinates colluded with Russia in win the election.

Collusion does not mean accepting or using information that Russia or Wikileaks obtained on its own.

Collusion does not mean talking to Russia after the election.

Collusion means actively helping Russia obtain information illegally for the purpose of winning the election or making a quid pro quo deal asking them to use it in return for sanction relief or some other benefit that he would otherwise not consider.

Once wikileaks had the e-mails both the press and Trump were allowed to use them.

Once Trump was elected he was allowed to make contact with Russia.

2. There is no evidence of a quid pro quo deal. The contact with Russia came AFTER the election. Most level headed people would consider it irresponsible if some transition process had not begun given there were some critical things going on and policy was about to change. Trying to de-escalate the problems for a few weeks until Trump was sworn in was the correct move and one that other presidents have used in the past.

3. So far there is more evidence of collusion between the democrats and Russia than Trump and Russia. The democrats clearly paid a former spy with contacts in Russia to create what turned out to be a discredited dossier that was used BEFORE the election.

4. Flynn did not agree to "turn" because they threatened him with much more severe charges (there were a few other potentially minor things). He turned because the legal fees were breaking him. I heard that he's so tapped out he just put his house up for sale. He agreed to tell what he knows to get financial relief from the prosecution. They destroyed the guy.

So basically it appears he's going to tell Meuller who told him to make contact with Russia (probably Kushner) WHICH WAS THE CORRECT and LEGAL THING TO DO TO BEGIN WITH. At that point, they will try to catch Kushner in a similar pointless and meaningless lie to work up the chain.

I don't know why Flynn lied originally. He was probably scared to death of saying anything about contact with Russia because he didn't understand if he broke the law and the leftist scumbags in the media were in a feeding frenzy. But he had not done anything illegal.

To me, unless they find something "real" along the way, Mueller, the media, the FBI, and the rest of then are the worst scumbags imaginable. They selectively let disgusting corrupt criminals in Washington walk all the time, but they are going after these guys for lying because they don't like their politics.

It's bad enough I already passionately distrust the mainstream media and politicians (for very good reason), but it's now also becoming clear the FBI, CIA, NSA and all the rest of them are swamp creatures also.

Is there not a decent man left?

Is there no one left that's willing to debate issues on their intellectual merit instead of trying to silence and destroy the opposition?

I am within inches of hating my own country.

boxcar
12-03-2017, 09:58 AM
This whole thing is nonsense so far.

1. The reason for the special prosecutor was to find evidence Trump or his subordinates colluded with Russia in win the election.

Collusion does not mean accepting or using information that Russia or Wikileaks obtained on its own.

Collusion does not mean talking to Russia after the election.

Collusion means actively helping Russia obtain information illegally for the purpose of winning the election or making a quid pro quo deal asking them to use it in return for sanction relief or some other benefit that he would otherwise not consider.

Once wikileaks had the e-mails both the press and Trump were allowed to use them.

Once Trump was elected he was allowed to make contact with Russia.

2. There is no evidence of a quid pro quo deal. The contact with Russia came AFTER the election. Most level headed people would consider it irresponsible if some transition process had not begun given there were some critical things going on and policy was about to change. Trying to de-escalate the problems for a few weeks until Trump was sworn in was the correct move and one that other presidents have used in the past.

3. So far there is more evidence of collusion between the democrats and Russia than Trump and Russia. The democrats clearly paid a former spy with contacts in Russia to create what turned out to be a discredited dossier that was used BEFORE the election.

4. Flynn did not agree to "turn" because they threatened him with much more severe charges (there were a few other potentially minor things). He turned because the legal fees were breaking him. I heard that he's so tapped out he just put his house up for sale. He agreed to tell what he knows to get financial relief from the prosecution. They destroyed the guy.

So basically it appears he's going to tell Meuller who told him to make contact with Russia (probably Kushner) WHICH WAS THE CORRECT and LEGAL THING TO DO TO BEGIN WITH. At that point, they will try to catch Kushner in a similar pointless and meaningless lie to work up the chain.

I don't know why Flynn lied originally. He was probably scared to death of saying anything about contact with Russia because he didn't understand if he broke the law and the leftist scumbags in the media were in a feeding frenzy. But he had not done anything illegal.

To me, unless they find something "real" along the way, Mueller, the media, the FBI, and the rest of then are the worst scumbags imaginable. They selectively let disgusting corrupt criminals in Washington walk all the time, but they are going after these guys for lying because they don't like their politics.

It's bad enough I already passionately distrust the mainstream media and politicians (for very good reason), but it's now also becoming clear the FBI, CIA, NSA and all the rest of them are swamp creatures also.

Is there not a decent man left?

Is there no one left that's willing to debate issues on their intellectual merit instead of trying to silence and destroy the opposition?

I am within inches of hating my own country.

Whoa, Classy, you are on fire today! :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

Fager Fan
12-03-2017, 10:24 AM
This whole thing is nonsense so far.

1. The reason for the special prosecutor was to find evidence Trump or his subordinates colluded with Russia in win the election.

Collusion does not mean accepting or using information that Russia or Wikileaks obtained on its own.

Collusion does not mean talking to Russia after the election.

Collusion means actively helping Russia obtain information illegally for the purpose of winning the election or making a quid pro quo deal asking them to use it in return for sanction relief or some other benefit that he would otherwise not consider.

Once wikileaks had the e-mails both the press and Trump were allowed to use them.

Once Trump was elected he was allowed to make contact with Russia.

2. There is no evidence of a quid pro quo deal. The contact with Russia came AFTER the election. Most level headed people would consider it irresponsible if some transition process had not begun given there were some critical things going on and policy was about to change. Trying to de-escalate the problems for a few weeks until Trump was sworn in was the correct move and one that other presidents have used in the past.

3. So far there is more evidence of collusion between the democrats and Russia than Trump and Russia. The democrats clearly paid a former spy with contacts in Russia to create what turned out to be a discredited dossier that was used BEFORE the election.

4. Flynn did not agree to "turn" because they threatened him with much more severe charges (there were a few other potentially minor things). He turned because the legal fees were breaking him. I heard that he's so tapped out he just put his house up for sale. He agreed to tell what he knows to get financial relief from the prosecution. They destroyed the guy.

So basically it appears he's going to tell Meuller who told him to make contact with Russia (probably Kushner) WHICH WAS THE CORRECT and LEGAL THING TO DO TO BEGIN WITH. At that point, they will try to catch Kushner in a similar pointless and meaningless lie to work up the chain.

I don't know why Flynn lied originally. He was probably scared to death of saying anything about contact with Russia because he didn't understand if he broke the law and the leftist scumbags in the media were in a feeding frenzy. But he had not done anything illegal.

To me, unless they find something "real" along the way, Mueller, the media, the FBI, and the rest of then are the worst scumbags imaginable. They selectively let disgusting corrupt criminals in Washington walk all the time, but they are going after these guys for lying because they don't like their politics.

It's bad enough I already passionately distrust the mainstream media and politicians (for very good reason), but it's now also becoming clear the FBI, CIA, NSA and all the rest of them are swamp creatures also.

Is there not a decent man left?

Is there no one left that's willing to debate issues on their intellectual merit instead of trying to silence and destroy the opposition?

I am within inches of hating my own country.

It took til now to realize we can't trust the FBI? I figured that out real quick the day of Comey's press conference vindicating Hillary Clinton.

As for why he lied, I even wonder if he really did. Wouldn't a rational person think the question has to do with collusion? So if the question was whether he talked to the Russian government, wouldn't a rational person think "no" if he never talked to them about colluding? It could've been an innocent answer, thinking he was telling them the truth about what they were asking, without divulging information that had nothing to do with their investigation.

woodtoo
12-03-2017, 12:31 PM
This whole thing is nonsense so far.

1. The reason for the special prosecutor was to find evidence Trump or his subordinates colluded with Russia in win the election.

Collusion does not mean accepting or using information that Russia or Wikileaks obtained on its own.

Collusion does not mean talking to Russia after the election.

Collusion means actively helping Russia obtain information illegally for the purpose of winning the election or making a quid pro quo deal asking them to use it in return for sanction relief or some other benefit that he would otherwise not consider.

Once wikileaks had the e-mails both the press and Trump were allowed to use them.

Once Trump was elected he was allowed to make contact with Russia.

2. There is no evidence of a quid pro quo deal. The contact with Russia came AFTER the election. Most level headed people would consider it irresponsible if some transition process had not begun given there were some critical things going on and policy was about to change. Trying to de-escalate the problems for a few weeks until Trump was sworn in was the correct move and one that other presidents have used in the past.

3. So far there is more evidence of collusion between the democrats and Russia than Trump and Russia. The democrats clearly paid a former spy with contacts in Russia to create what turned out to be a discredited dossier that was used BEFORE the election.

4. Flynn did not agree to "turn" because they threatened him with much more severe charges (there were a few other potentially minor things). He turned because the legal fees were breaking him. I heard that he's so tapped out he just put his house up for sale. He agreed to tell what he knows to get financial relief from the prosecution. They destroyed the guy.

So basically it appears he's going to tell Meuller who told him to make contact with Russia (probably Kushner) WHICH WAS THE CORRECT and LEGAL THING TO DO TO BEGIN WITH. At that point, they will try to catch Kushner in a similar pointless and meaningless lie to work up the chain.

I don't know why Flynn lied originally. He was probably scared to death of saying anything about contact with Russia because he didn't understand if he broke the law and the leftist scumbags in the media were in a feeding frenzy. But he had not done anything illegal.

To me, unless they find something "real" along the way, Mueller, the media, the FBI, and the rest of then are the worst scumbags imaginable. They selectively let disgusting corrupt criminals in Washington walk all the time, but they are going after these guys for lying because they don't like their politics.

It's bad enough I already passionately distrust the mainstream media and politicians (for very good reason), but it's now also becoming clear the FBI, CIA, NSA and all the rest of them are swamp creatures also.

Is there not a decent man left?

Is there no one left that's willing to debate issues on their intellectual merit instead of trying to silence and destroy the opposition?

I am within inches of hating my own country.

Excellent analyst Class.
Patience is needed in aces in this investigation and it could be shut down at any time. POTUS is allowing this to unfold because he knows it really leads nowhere so they waste their time energy and your money chasing nothing.

Patience Class hopper.:ThmbUp:

woodtoo
12-03-2017, 12:46 PM
Another dirty agent unveiled FBI agent Peter Strzok FBI attorney Lisa Page
torrid extramarital affair revealing everything they didn't want you know about their love of crooked Hillary and their hatred of Trump.

upthecreek
12-03-2017, 02:09 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12/03/trump-suggests-investors-who-lost-on-false-flynn-report-by-abcs-ross-should-sue.amp.html

Tom
12-03-2017, 03:45 PM
Collusion does not mean accepting or using information that Russia or Wikileaks obtained on its own.

To the democrats, collusion means Trump had Russian dressing on his salad.
Facts mean nothing to them, never have.

woodtoo
12-03-2017, 10:01 PM
Excellent analyst Class.
Patience is needed in aces in this investigation and it could be shut down at any time. POTUS is allowing this to unfold because he knows it really leads nowhere so they waste their time energy and your money chasing nothing.

Patience Class hopper.:ThmbUp:

Patience payday is coming soon as there has been an ongoing investigation by
the Office of the Inspector General into the politicization within DOJ and FBI for 11 months!!

And they are close to reporting its findings. Who wants two scoops with their crow?

hcap
12-04-2017, 10:18 AM
1. The reason for the special prosecutor was to find evidence Trump or his subordinates colluded with Russia in win the election.
Bull shit......That is only part of the reason. Obstruction of justice is also in his purvue.




The appointment followed a series of events which included President Donald Trump's firing of FBI director James Comey and Comey's allegation that Trump asked him to drop the FBI investigation into former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn.[5]

Rosenstein, in his role as Acting Attorney General due to the recusal of Attorney General Jeff Sessions, has authority over the use of DOJ resources by Mueller and the investigation. In an interview with the Associated Press, Rosenstein said he would recuse himself from supervision of Mueller if he himself were to become a subject in the investigation due to his role in the dismissal of Comey.[6] Trumpeters bend over and get ready to kiss your Trumpetering asses goodbye.

PaceAdvantage
12-04-2017, 10:21 AM
God you guys are delusional...here, let me let fellow left-leaner Allen Dershowitz spell it out for you...Harvard...stellar law career...brilliant guy all around...maybe you'll listen to him:

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/12/04/alan-dershowitz-obstruction-justice-charges-against-trump-would-lead-constitutional

"If Congress were ever to charge him with obstruction of justice for exercising his constitutional authority under Article II, we'd have a constitutional crisis," Dershowitz said.

He explained that Congress would have to demonstrate "clearly illegal acts" on Trump's part, such as former President Richard Nixon paying "hush money," telling people to lie and destroying evidence in the Watergate scandal.

"There's never been a case in history where a president has been charged with obstruction of justice for merely exercising his constitutional authority. That would cause a constitutional crisis in the United States," Dershowitz said, adding that he hopes Special Counsel Robert Mueller understands that before he considers bringing an indictment or recommending that the matter be referred to Congress.

"And Sen. Feinstein simply doesn't know what she's talking about when she says it's obstruction of justice to do what a president is completely authorized to do under the Constitution."

He added that if Trump truly wanted to impede Mueller's investigation, he could have pardoned Gen. Michael Flynn to prevent him from cooperating.

"The president would have had the complete authority do so and Flynn never would have been indicted, never would have turned as a witness against him," said Dershowitz, a lifelong Democrat.

hcap
12-04-2017, 10:34 AM
I got news for you any used to be" left-leaner" like Allen Dershowitz who gets quoted by Faux Noos to make it's case, is no longer a left leaner.

Clocker
12-04-2017, 10:37 AM
God you guys are delusional...here, let me let fellow left-leaner Allen Dershowitz spell it out for you...Harvard...stellar law career...brilliant guy all around...maybe you'll listen to him:

Dershowitz has also pointed out that it isn't real smart for a special prosecutor to build a big case based on a star witness who is guilty of lying. :rolleyes:

Clocker
12-04-2017, 10:40 AM
I got news for you any used to be" left-leaner" like Allen Dershowitz who gets quoted by Faux Noos to make it's case, is no longer a left leaner.

Which is to say that any left-leaner who tells the truth regardless of which side it favors is no longer a left leaner.

PaceAdvantage
12-04-2017, 10:42 AM
Someone tell Dershowitz he has to turn in his lefty card.

Fager Fan
12-04-2017, 10:43 AM
Bull shit......That is only part of the reason. Obstruction of justice is also in his purvue.


Trumpeters bend over and get ready to kiss your Trumpetering asses goodbye.

The guy with the really creepy little girl avatar reemerges.

You libs keep hoping. Trump's not going anywhere.

hcap
12-04-2017, 10:48 AM
Which is to say that any left-leaner who tells the truth regardless of which side it favors is no longer a left leaner.
Same on both sides. Here is the National Review.

"It Is Now an Obstruction Investigation. Which means that it’s an impeachment investigation"



Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/454311/mueller-strategy-obstruction-justice-investigation-leading-impeachment

PaceAdvantage
12-04-2017, 10:56 AM
Same on both sides. Here is the National Review.

"It Is Now an Obstruction Investigation. Which means that it’s an impeachment investigation"



Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/454311/mueller-strategy-obstruction-justice-investigation-leading-impeachmentThis article doesn't really help your cause.

It claims the case has switched from a collusion investigation to an obstruction investigation...meaning the whole basis for the investigation to begin with has found nothing. Good going.

You better get a whole lot of Democrats elected to Congress if you think you're going to pull off an impeachment AND removal based on a nothing-burger (to this point) obstruction of justice case.

Hell, Clinton was impeached and he was never removed. You're dreaming of fairy tales if you think Trump is going to be removed by Congress some day.

hcap
12-04-2017, 11:15 AM
Not what it says.

...Since there is no collusion case, we can safely assume Mueller is primarily scrutinizing President Trump with an eye toward making a case of obstructing an FBI investigation. This also makes sense in light of the pleas that have been taken

Although "collusion" is not at this point readily provable, obstruction of justice probably is. BTW conspiracy with the RUSSIANS is still in the cards. This investigation is going to go on and Mueller is not showing all his cards.


Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/454311/mueller-strategy-obstruction-justice-investigation-leading-impeachment

hcap
12-04-2017, 11:19 AM
This article doesn't really help your cause.

The Donald's impeachment helps all our cases

PaceAdvantage
12-04-2017, 11:29 AM
The Donald's impeachment helps all our casesI know. The country has really fallen to shit since his election a year ago...:rolleyes:

Clocker
12-04-2017, 11:38 AM
The Donald's impeachment helps all our cases

From the article, the worst case scenario for Trump is Mueller...

...recommending that the matter be referred to Congress for consideration of next steps, potentially including impeachment and removal.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/454311/mueller-strategy-obstruction-justice-investigation-leading-impeachment
That will happen when Nancy Pelosi again wields the Speaker's gavel.

Fager Fan
12-04-2017, 11:55 AM
I know. The country has really fallen to shit since his election a year ago...:rolleyes:

Ain't that the truth? But of course libs don't notice and they'll sure as hell never acknowledge. The economy could rain gold nuggets on the guy with the creepy avatar's house, and he'd claim that's proof Trump harmed the environment.

Where did Trump supposedly obstruct justice? Firing Comey? That's laughable.

_______
12-04-2017, 11:56 AM
This article doesn't really help your cause.

It claims the case has switched from a collusion investigation to an obstruction investigation...meaning the whole basis for the investigation to begin with has found nothing. Good going.

You better get a whole lot of Democrats elected to Congress if you think you're going to pull off an impeachment AND removal based on a nothing-burger (to this point) obstruction of justice case.

Hell, Clinton was impeached and he was never removed. You're dreaming of fairy tales if you think Trump is going to be removed by Congress some day.

I’m just going to touch briefly on your point that an obstruction of justice investigation is somehow a step down from collusion.

The danger to Trump arose when he fired Comey. I’ve been on this board repeatedly laughing at the idea that anyone on Trump’s team would have been stupid enough to actually collude. But the President stepped on a land mine of his own making when he fired Comey and then went on the record that it was “because of the Russia thing”.

His twitter account has now been used to admit that he knew Flynn had lied to the FBI when he had allegedly asked Comey to go easy on him.

I don’t know (and no one on this board knows) what Michael Flynn is sharing with the special prosecutor. I noted the mysterious disappearance of Jared Kushner’s public profile earlier. I think that is an odd coincidence but I’m much less of a conspiracy guy that just about everyone else here so am open to other explanations.

Impeachment? I agree it’s not likely to happen. But the entirely self inflicted wound of this investigation is going to weaken the administration going forward regardless of how many “Winning!!” posts you read here.

woodtoo
12-04-2017, 11:58 AM
The Donald's impeachment helps all our cases

My god child Donald Trump WON and Hillary Clinton LOST get over it already
you are wasting away on Earth2!!

hcap
12-04-2017, 01:22 PM
"My god child Donald Trump WON"

Spoiled brat not child

classhandicapper
12-04-2017, 01:28 PM
I got news for you any used to be" left-leaner" like Allen Dershowitz who gets quoted by Faux Noos to make it's case, is no longer a left leaner.


You are right. He's not a person that's willing to mislead people with lies, spin, and misinterpretations of the law for personal political gain. He's willing to explain the law, legal precedent, etc.. to all the people that are being mislead by the left leaning scumbuckets in the mainstream media and in Washington because he values truth over his personal politics.

I admit I don't know what happened. We'll find out over time. But I do know 2 things.

1. There's nothing illegal yet.

2. The mainstream media is made up of two kinds of people.
a. People that are suffering from extreme cognitive bias brought on by their hate of Trump
b. Some of the most horrible disgusting human beings imaginable.

MONEY
12-04-2017, 01:43 PM
Technically it is known that Flynn plead quilty because he does not have enough money to defend himself
against the charges. Because of this the judge should not have accepted his plea. What the judge should have
done, is have the public defenders office assign representation for Flynn.

My 2 Cents

Tom
12-04-2017, 03:36 PM
It claims the case has switched from a collusion investigation to an obstruction investigation...meaning the whole basis for the investigation to begin with has found nothing. Good going.

Gee, sounds a lot like going from Global Warming to Climate Change. :pound::pound::pound:

JustRalph
12-04-2017, 04:30 PM
Technically it is known that Flynn plead quilty because he does not have enough money to defend himself
against the charges. Because of this the judge should not have accepted his plea. What the judge should have
done, is have the public defenders office assign representation for Flynn.

My 2 Cents

Interesting view. 👍

classhandicapper
12-04-2017, 08:46 PM
Flynn admitted to lying to the FBI. The problem is he was not caught lying about contact with Russia designed to help Russia in some quid pro quo deal. He was in contact with Russia to help Israel (all legal but instructive in that it had nothing to do with Russia).

So far they've indicted one guy doing work related to Ukraine and another for doing work related to Israel.

None of it has anything to do with collusion with Russia over the election and the main witness going forward is a guy that admitted lying. That's not exactly a great witness for Mueller.

Furthermore, it has now been revealed that a key agent that worked on the Hillary case (who clearly broke laws and lied to the FBI) is a Hillary supporter and anti-Trumper. He softened the case on Hillary and was then demoted off the Trump case for bias. The entire thing is a fiasco. The FBI has basically been totally discredited at this point.

It's actually becoming a contest to see who is the biggest bunch of scumbags, the FBI, the media or the democrats.

If something real comes of this and they start applying the law equally to all, I'll be glad to retract all of that. But as of now they are reprehensible slime. All of them.

_______
12-04-2017, 09:39 PM
(Sigh)

Michael Flynn did not plead guilty solely because he couldn’t afford a defense. I don’t know what role the cost of defending himself played in his decision to cooperate and provide evidence against others but in addition to the charges he pled guilty to, he and his son faced charges for acting as agents for a foreign country (Turkey) without registering.

It’s the same charge that Manafort currently faces. Flynn, I would guess, mostly wanted to save his son and managed to cut a deal that means he will serve minimal time himself. Good for him. Good for his lawyers. Bad for those in the administration that he has dirt on.

But you guys keep circling around the fact that he pled guilty to such a minor charge. And when it’s pointed out that he cut a deal to avoid more serious charges, you sputter about blackmail.

News flash: This is how it works. There is zero here that isn’t straight out of any prosecutors basic handbook.

Yes it’s a relatively minor charge compared to what they could charge him with. But that wasn’t the point 4 days ago and it’s still not the point today. And it won’t be the point next week.

Michael Flynn who was with the Trump campaign nearly from the start is now a cooperating witness. THAT is the f’in point people.

We are still waiting for the other shoe to drop. So save some of your righteous outrage. You don’t want to spend it all here and have nothing left for the next set of charges.

Fager Fan
12-04-2017, 10:23 PM
(Sigh)

Michael Flynn did not plead guilty solely because he couldn’t afford a defense. I don’t know what role the cost of defending himself played in his decision to cooperate and provide evidence against others but in addition to the charges he pled guilty to, he and his son faced charges for acting as agents for a foreign country (Turkey) without registering.

It’s the same charge that Manafort currently faces. Flynn, I would guess, mostly wanted to save his son and managed to cut a deal that means he will serve minimal time himself. Good for him. Good for his lawyers. Bad for those in the administration that he has dirt on.

But you guys keep circling around the fact that he pled guilty to such a minor charge. And when it’s pointed out that he cut a deal to avoid more serious charges, you sputter about blackmail.

News flash: This is how it works. There is zero here that isn’t straight out of any prosecutors basic handbook.

Yes it’s a relatively minor charge compared to what they could charge him with. But that wasn’t the point 4 days ago and it’s still not the point today. And it won’t be the point next week.

Michael Flynn who was with the Trump campaign nearly from the start is now a cooperating witness. THAT is the f’in point people.

We are still waiting for the other shoe to drop. So save some of your righteous outrage. You don’t want to spend it all here and have nothing left for the next set of charges.

How do we save a post? I want to show it to Blank Guy when he finally realizes the shoes were only Deerfoams.

hcap
12-05-2017, 02:29 AM
Flynn admitted to lying to the FBI. The problem is he was not caught lying about contact with Russia designed to help Russia in some quid pro quo deal. He was in contact with Russia to help Israel (all legal but instructive in that it had nothing to do with Russia). Collusion may be just around the bend.
OoJ is now
THE PROBLEM for the worst president right now is Trump firing Comey which then led DIRECTLY to the appointment of Mueller to investigate obstruction of justice by the Donald. Mueller was appointed immediately (8 days) after Comey was fired and Trump asked Comey to go easy on Flynn

Dozens of Senate Democrats are demanding a special prosector be appointed to investigate President Trump's alleged ties to Russia after FBI Director James Comey was abruptly dismissed Tuesday evening.

May 9, 2017 - Comey is fired
May 17, 2017 – Special counselor named

Comprehensive timeline for faulty PA Trumpweters memories

Timeline: How we got from Flynn's firing to a special prosecutor

http://abcnews.go.com/US/timeline-flynns-firing-special-prosecutor/story?id=47460505

hcap
12-05-2017, 10:41 AM
https://youtu.be/G0f1MNQC6dw

BTW, Deutsche Bank gets subpoena from Mueller on Trump accounts: source.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-deutsche-bank/deutsche-bank-gets-subpoena-from-mueller-on-trump-accounts-source-idUSKBN1DZ0XN

JustRalph
12-05-2017, 11:03 AM
The fact that they are working so hard to hand the Presidency to Mike Pence is almost funny. Pence is the Dems worst nightmare. He'll get a ton more accomplished

Clocker
12-05-2017, 11:16 AM
BTW, Deutsche Bank gets subpoena from Mueller on Trump accounts: source.



An obvious fishing expedition. Even if the bank does release the records, and even if there are indications of money coming from Russians, how does he prove intent?

Wait, I know. Mueller could offer Putin amnesty in exchange for his testimony. :jump:

Germany's largest bank received a subpoena from Mueller several weeks ago to provide information on certain money and credit transactions, the person added, confirming a report by German daily Handelsblatt published on Tuesday.

Deutsche Bank, which has loaned the Trump organization millions of dollars for real estate ventures, said it would not comment on any of its clients.

Deutsche Bank rejected demands in June by U.S. House Democrats to provide details of Trump's finances, citing privacy laws.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017/12/05/deutsche-bank-receives-subpoena-from-mueller-on-trump-accounts-source.html

hcap
12-05-2017, 11:24 AM
An obvious fishing expedition. Even if the bank does release the records, and even if there are indications of money coming from Russians, how does he prove intent? Quid pro quo?

Quid pro quo ("something for something" or "this for that" in Latin)[1] is a phrase used in English to mean an exchange of goods or services, in which one transfer is contingent upon the other; "a favour for a favour". Phrases with similar meanings include: "give and take", "tit for tat", and "you scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours".

chadk66
12-05-2017, 11:26 AM
this is so comical to watch. the left just throwing shit everywhere hoping it'll stick. and in the end it'll be all for naught :lol:

Clocker
12-05-2017, 11:31 AM
Quid pro quo?



Post hoc ergo propter hoc?

JustRalph
12-05-2017, 11:35 AM
Quid pro quo?

Quid pro quo ("something for something" or "this for that" in Latin)[1] is a phrase used in English to mean an exchange of goods or services, in which one transfer is contingent upon the other; "a favour for a favour". Phrases with similar meanings include: "give and take", "tit for tat", and "you scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours".

****eth off, is Trumps reply :lol:

hcap
12-05-2017, 11:49 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-state-run-bank-financed-deal-involving-trump-hotel-partner-1495031708

Russian State-Run Bank Financed Deal Involving Trump Hotel Partner
Russian-Canadian developer put money into Toronto project after receiving hundreds of millions from deal involving VEB

and
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-history-of-donald-trumps-business-dealings-in-russia/2017/11/02/fb8eed22-ba9e-11e7-be94-fabb0f1e9ffb_story.html?utm_term=.0f24510a15
0f
A history of Donald Trump’s business dealings in Russia
.................................................. ....................................

Post hoc ergo propter hoc? Like how the right justifies moronic tax and fiscal policies?

hcap
12-05-2017, 11:52 AM
Quid pro quo?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_projects_of_Donald_Trump_in_Russia

"Donald Trump has pursued business deals in Russia since 1987, and has sometimes traveled there to explore potential business opportunities. In 1996, Trump trademark applications were submitted for potential Russian real estate development deals. Trump's partners and children have repeatedly visited Moscow, connecting with developers and government officials to explore joint venture opportunities. Trump was never able to successfully conclude any real estate deals in Russia. However, individual Russians have invested heavily in Trump properties, and following Trump's bankruptcies in the 1990s he borrowed money from Russian sources. In 2008 his son Donald Trump Jr. said that Russia was an important source of money for the Trump businesses."

PaceAdvantage
12-05-2017, 12:13 PM
I'm thinking a lot of people don't really care anymore about any of this...I know I don't. I think it's hilarious though what's been going on. Sad, but hilarious.

The US will soldier on, no matter what happens, as always. Slightly weaker, of course, but soldier on nonetheless.

It's amazing the libs never tire of all this BS.

Let's say the DEMS pull a miracle and somehow are able to impeach and remove the teflon Don...SO WHAT?

As Hillary once said, "What difference, at this point, does it make?" :pound:

Seriously guys...what do you think is going to change...is the country going to go from doing very, very well, to very, very very well? :lol::lol::bang::bang:

Clocker
12-05-2017, 12:19 PM
Quid pro quo?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_projects_of_Donald_Trump_in_Russia

"Donald Trump has pursued business deals in Russia since 1987, and has sometimes traveled there to explore potential business opportunities. In 1996, Trump trademark applications were submitted for potential Russian real estate development deals. Trump's partners and children have repeatedly visited Moscow, connecting with developers and government officials to explore joint venture opportunities. Trump was never able to successfully conclude any real estate deals in Russia. However, individual Russians have invested heavily in Trump properties, and following Trump's bankruptcies in the 1990s he borrowed money from Russian sources. In 2008 his son Donald Trump Jr. said that Russia was an important source of money for the Trump businesses."

If private Russian investment in Trump projects is the "quo", what is the "quid" from Trump that they got in return?

OntheRail
12-05-2017, 12:23 PM
Quid pro quo?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_projects_of_Donald_Trump_in_Russia

"Donald Trump has pursued business deals in Russia since 1987, and has sometimes traveled there to explore potential business opportunities. In 1996, Trump trademark applications were submitted for potential Russian real estate development deals. Trump's partners and children have repeatedly visited Moscow, connecting with developers and government officials to explore joint venture opportunities. Trump was never able to successfully conclude any real estate deals in Russia. However, individual Russians have invested heavily in Trump properties, and following Trump's bankruptcies in the 1990s he borrowed money from Russian sources. In 2008 his son Donald Trump Jr. said that Russia was an important source of money for the Trump businesses."

Trump Brand is International... keep grasping.l

Keep a tight grip on those straws... but not to tight as they are rice paper thin and will crumble in your hand.

Clocker
12-05-2017, 12:24 PM
Let's say the DEMS pull a miracle and somehow are able to impeach and remove the teflon Don...SO WHAT?

As Hillary once said, "What difference, at this point, does it make?" :pound:



Maybe the Dems think that this is like a horse race. If the winner is disqualified, the place horse moves up to #1. :rolleyes:

classhandicapper
12-05-2017, 12:41 PM
Pat Buchannan

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/12/patrick-j-buchanan/flynns-defection/

classhandicapper
12-05-2017, 12:47 PM
If private Russian investment in Trump projects is the "quo", what is the "quid" from Trump that they got in return?


We've had discussions on this forum in the past about cognitive bias, conformation bias, and the like when it comes to handicapping and other areas of research. I found them interesting, but hadn't observed it enough to truly understand how it impacts people, including myself at times.

This last year I have learned a lot about the subject from watching how bright people deal with facts related to Trump. Granted the passions are high, but the level of cognitive bias is so extreme in the media and among some people that follow politics closely, imho, it borders on mental illness. People are actually delusional.

The whole thing is idiotic. Trump is a multi-billionaire with investments throughout the world. Of course he has done business in and with Russia for years. He'll continue doing business there after he's out of office just like MANY other individuals and corporations. I wish I could make a few very small investments there.

classhandicapper
12-05-2017, 12:59 PM
Maybe the Dems think that this is like a horse race. If the winner is disqualified, the place horse moves up to #1. :rolleyes:

If the democrats/media/IC complex is successful in removing Trump, they better have an iron clad case of very illegal activities bordering on treason so people accept it. If they get him on some bullshit phony technicality or minor thing the deplorables are going to riot. And I'm not talking about small marches in some cities with cars overturned and some looting. I'm talking about millions going to Washington and burning media and other buildings down.

chadk66
12-05-2017, 01:04 PM
I would bet there isn't a single Trump voter that gives a shit about this whole Russia nonsense. So what's that mean? Trump will win again and the libs will drive themselves bananas. Win Win. :pound: Or is that more winning

Fager Fan
12-05-2017, 01:05 PM
Quid pro quo?

Quid pro quo ("something for something" or "this for that" in Latin)[1] is a phrase used in English to mean an exchange of goods or services, in which one transfer is contingent upon the other; "a favour for a favour". Phrases with similar meanings include: "give and take", "tit for tat", and "you scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours".

You mean like the Clinton Foundations and Bill's paid speeches?

Clocker
12-05-2017, 01:08 PM
If the democrats/media/IC complex is successful in removing Trump, they better have an iron clad case of very illegal activities bordering on treason so people accept it.

Can't happen. It requires a majority in the House to send it to the Senate, and then 67 votes in the Senate.

elysiantraveller
12-05-2017, 01:13 PM
I'm thinking a lot of people don't really care anymore about any of this...I know I don't. I think it's hilarious though what's been going on. Sad, but hilarious.

The US will soldier on, no matter what happens, as always. Slightly weaker, of course, but soldier on nonetheless.

It's amazing the libs never tire of all this BS.

Let's say the DEMS pull a miracle and somehow are able to impeach and remove the teflon Don...SO WHAT?

As Hillary once said, "What difference, at this point, does it make?" :pound:

Seriously guys...what do you think is going to change...is the country going to go from doing very, very well, to very, very very well? :lol::lol::bang::bang:

The populist right never tires of Hillary either... And she isn't even in charge of anything anymore.

classhandicapper
12-05-2017, 01:37 PM
Can't happen. It requires a majority in the House to send it to the Senate, and then 67 votes in the Senate.

Why not?

More than half the republicans can't stand Trump and would rather have Pence.

classhandicapper
12-05-2017, 01:40 PM
You mean like the Clinton Foundations and Bill's paid speeches?

Yep. The Clinton Foundation is not international business like the Trump organization. It's a slush fund for every foreign criminal on earth to buy influence in the US. The Clintons just happen to be very good criminals and find ways to do despicable things and skate by.

Fager Fan
12-05-2017, 01:44 PM
Why not?

More than half the republicans can't stand Trump and would rather have Pence.

I'm not so sure about that. I think they're developing some respect for him even if they still aren't used to Trump not wearing the mask of decorum that most politicians wear.

newtothegame
12-05-2017, 06:07 PM
The populist right never tires of Hillary either... And she isn't even in charge of anything anymore.

So!!! How long through Obama's terms did we hear about Bush??? :bang:

elysiantraveller
12-05-2017, 06:15 PM
So!!! How long through Obama's terms did we hear about Bush??? :bang:

Too long. Same with Hillary.

Fager Fan
12-05-2017, 06:58 PM
Too long. Same with Hillary.

Hillary did somethign to talk about, in addition to her being out doing way too much talking herself.

elysiantraveller
12-05-2017, 08:50 PM
Hillary did somethign to talk about, in addition to her being out doing way too much talking herself.

And perhaps Trump did nothing but people around him sure did... and my god... his Twitter account isn't helping him at all.

Tom
12-05-2017, 09:58 PM
The ONLY interference in the election came from the DNC, the FBI, and the press.


Deal with it.

Fager Fan
12-06-2017, 12:01 AM
And perhaps Trump did nothing but people around him sure did... and my god... his Twitter account isn't helping him at all.

I thought the comparison was to Bush, who did zero for Obama and Libs to keep talking about with him, unless painting portraits of veterans and having a biking fundraiser for vets is something to get your briefs in a bunch over.

elysiantraveller
12-06-2017, 10:11 AM
I thought the comparison was to Bush, who did zero for Obama and Libs to keep talking about with him, unless painting portraits of veterans and having a biking fundraiser for vets is something to get your briefs in a bunch over.

Didn't catch that.

Problem with Trump though is his mouth and twitter handle always get him into trouble. He does something good. Then gets drunk or sleep deprived or I don't know... then he gets on Twitter and damages his credibility and the integrity of the office some more.

I'm getting him some Zzzquil for Xmas to help him curb the late night on the ****ter tirades. :sleeping::sleeping:

Clocker
12-06-2017, 10:15 AM
Then gets drunk or sleep deprived or I don't know... then he gets on Twitter and damages his credibility and the integrity of the office some more.

I'm getting him some Zzzquil for Xmas to help him curb the late night on the ****ter tirades. :sleeping::sleeping:

Trump doesn't drink. His drug of choice is immediate public attention. He goes into withdrawal if he goes too long without it.

elysiantraveller
12-06-2017, 10:23 AM
Trump doesn't drink. His drug of choice is immediate public attention. He goes into withdrawal if he goes too long without it.

^^^

This comment is winning so far today... :lol::lol::lol:

JustRalph
12-06-2017, 12:23 PM
Didn't catch that.

Problem with Trump though is his mouth and twitter handle always get him into trouble. He does something good. Then gets drunk or sleep deprived or I don't know... then he gets on Twitter and damages his credibility and the integrity of the office some more.

I'm getting him some Zzzquil for Xmas to help him curb the late night on the ****ter tirades. :sleeping::sleeping:

After Obama’s, the office has no integrity at all........

OntheRail
12-06-2017, 01:17 PM
After Obama’s, the office has no integrity at all........

Right from the get go with his bow and scrap tour...:puke:

Fager Fan
12-06-2017, 01:47 PM
Didn't catch that.

Problem with Trump though is his mouth and twitter handle always get him into trouble. He does something good. Then gets drunk or sleep deprived or I don't know... then he gets on Twitter and damages his credibility and the integrity of the office some more.

I'm getting him some Zzzquil for Xmas to help him curb the late night on the ****ter tirades. :sleeping::sleeping:

I agree about him tweeting too much, but I also recognize, when I step back and really look at things, that the tweets we complain about may actually be working for him. So he may not be as dumb about this as we want to think. He drives the narrative towards places he wants it to go, without caring what we think of his PR as long as it goes where he wants.

Gingrich made a comment a couple nights ago that is really pretty profound. He said that it really hit him that night, after learning of Fitz (however the guy's name in the FBI is spelled) having such an unprofessional bias, that the election of Trump may be far, far more significant than we ever thought. That had Hillary been elected, it would've been business as usual, and we'd never realize how corrupt even the FBI has become (sorry, Gingrich, but some of us knew that the day Comey had his press conference, I guess you were still willing to give him some benefit of the doubt).

Trump, sometimes on purpose and sometimes by accident, is causing the upheaval we ultimately may have to go through to really drain the swamp (which is a far bigger and dirtier swamp than Gingrich thought).

Tom
12-06-2017, 03:49 PM
I prefer a president who is open and not one who snuck around behind, doing stuff like sending pallets of unmarked cash to the world's number one terror sponsor.

Trump tweets.
Deal with it.

classhandicapper
12-06-2017, 07:36 PM
Flynn may have been in a lot more trouble that we thought. Perhaps that's why he copped a plea. This doesn't tie Trump to the deal at all, but if true, it smells to high heaven for Flynn. It's a lot like an endless number of Clinton deals.

"WASHINGTON — Michael T. Flynn, President Trump’s former national security adviser, told a former business associate that economic sanctions against Russia would be “ripped up” as one of the Trump administration’s first acts, according to an account by a whistle-blower made public on Wednesday.

Mr. Flynn believed that ending the sanctions could allow a business project he had once participated in to move forward, according to the whistle-blower. The account is the strongest evidence to date that the Trump administration wanted to end the sanctions immediately, and suggests that Mr. Flynn had a possible economic incentive for the United States to forge a closer relationship with Russia."


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/06/us/politics/michael-flynn-russia-sanctions-ripped-up-whistleblower.html

For the record, I've seen only one response to this article so far.

"Elijah Cummings unnamed source is whistleblowing on something he never saw that he heard second hand from another guy?" Bill Mitchell

JustRalph
12-06-2017, 07:58 PM
So what? None of that’s illegal. It’s babysit compared to the Clinton deals

PaceAdvantage
12-10-2017, 03:14 PM
After 18 months, we have no evidence Trump colluded with Russia in hacking the emails of the DNC or John Podesta, which is what the FBI investigation was supposedly about.

There is no conclusive evidence Flynn committed a crime when, as national security adviser-designate, he tried to prevent Obama from sabotaging the policies Trump had run on — and won on.

Yet there is evidence Russian intelligence agents colluded with a British spy in the pay of the oppo research arm of the DNC and Hillary Clinton campaign — to find dirt on Donald Trump.

And there is evidence James Comey’s FBI wanted to hire the British spy who appeared to have access to the Russian agents who appeared to possess all that wonderful dirt on the Donald.

It is hard to see how this ends well.Good stuff from the Patrick J. Buchanan piece...

hcap
12-21-2017, 03:32 AM
Collusion may be just around the bend.
OoJ is now
THE PROBLEM for the worst president right now is Trump firing Comey which then led DIRECTLY to the appointment of Mueller to investigate obstruction of justice by the Donald. Mueller was appointed immediately (8 days) after Comey was fired and Trump asked Comey to go easy on Flynn


May 9, 2017 - Comey is fired
May 17, 2017 – Special counselor named

Comprehensive timeline for faulty PA Trumpweters memories

Timeline: How we got from Flynn's firing to a special prosecutor

http://abcnews.go.com/US/timeline-flynns-firing-special-prosecutor/story?id=47460505

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/mcgahn-trump-knew-flynn-probably-violated-law-in-january

Latest: Just days after the inauguration, White House Counsel Don McGahn learned—and warned President Donald Trump—that then-national security adviser Michael Flynn had probably violated federal laws, according to a new report out Wednesday.

....Foreign Policy reported that the Special Counsel has obtained “records” that reveal McGahn in late January researched the consequences of lying to the FBI and of violating the Logan Act, a centuries-old federal prohibition on private citizens negotiating with hostile foreign governments. The research, conducted with the help of two aides, prompted McGahn to conclude that Flynn had likely committed a crime by discussing sanctions with a top Russian official during the transition, two current administration officials told Foreign Policy. Most significantly, the records now in the possession of Special Counsel Robert Mueller indicate McGahn “warned Trump about Flynn’s possible violations” for holding those discussions and lying about them to the FBI, according to Foreign Policy.

Legal experts told TPM that such advance notification about Flynn’s potentially criminal acts would significantly bolster the case that the President was trying to obstruct justice

Fager Fan
12-21-2017, 08:52 AM
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/mcgahn-trump-knew-flynn-probably-violated-law-in-january

Latest: Just days after the inauguration, White House Counsel Don McGahn learned—and warned President Donald Trump—that then-national security adviser Michael Flynn had probably violated federal laws, according to a new report out Wednesday.

....Foreign Policy reported that the Special Counsel has obtained “records” that reveal McGahn in late January researched the consequences of lying to the FBI and of violating the Logan Act, a centuries-old federal prohibition on private citizens negotiating with hostile foreign governments. The research, conducted with the help of two aides, prompted McGahn to conclude that Flynn had likely committed a crime by discussing sanctions with a top Russian official during the transition, two current administration officials told Foreign Policy. Most significantly, the records now in the possession of Special Counsel Robert Mueller indicate McGahn “warned Trump about Flynn’s possible violations” for holding those discussions and lying about them to the FBI, according to Foreign Policy.

Legal experts told TPM that such advance notification about Flynn’s potentially criminal acts would significantly bolster the case that the President was trying to obstruct justice

You can't get Trump on the supposed crime he's to be investigated over, so now you're hoping beyond hope that he can get into some kind of trouble for what was said or done responding to a crime he never committed and therefore shouldn't have been investigated to start with.

And you're desperate to say that somehow Trump being told of ramifications of Flynn lying to the FBI spells obstruction. How so? What and how did he obstruct what?

JustRalph
12-21-2017, 10:06 AM
Provide us a list of those convicted under the Logan act

It’s unconstitutional


That’s why nobody gets charged with it

hcap
12-21-2017, 11:12 AM
Provide us a list of those convicted under the Logan act

It’s unconstitutional


That’s why nobody gets charged with itObstruction of justice removed Nixon from office not the Logan act.

hcap
12-21-2017, 11:29 AM
You can't get Trump on the supposed crime he's to be investigated over, so now you're hoping beyond hope that he can get into some kind of trouble for what was said or done responding to a crime he never committed and therefore shouldn't have been investigated to start with.

And you're desperate to say that somehow Trump being told of ramifications of Flynn lying to the FBI spells obstruction. How so? What and how did he obstruct what?You are full of shit. As usual.

https://lawfareblog.com/trumps-potential-interference-muellers-investigation-what-watch

More specifically, Rosenstein assigned Mueller to take over Comey’s investigation, which Comey described to Congress as encompassing “the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election and that includes investigating the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government and whether there was any coordination between the campaign and Russia's efforts.” Rosenstein’s order appointing Mueller specifically referenced “any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump” and “any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation.” The order appointing Mueller also invokes 28 C.F.R. 600.4, which provides that “[t]he jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall also include the authority to investigate and prosecute federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the special counsel's investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses.”

hcap
12-21-2017, 11:41 AM
The Drudge Advantage continues aas kissing. You Trumpeteers should have been there.......

https://youtu.be/tNujD-eSwv8?t=7

Sickening

Greyfox
12-21-2017, 12:21 PM
Sickening

Well said.:ThmbUp:
They were kissing ass like I've never seen adults do before.

Fager Fan
12-21-2017, 12:28 PM
You are full of shit. As usual.

https://lawfareblog.com/trumps-potential-interference-muellers-investigation-what-watch

More specifically, Rosenstein assigned Mueller to take over Comey’s investigation, which Comey described to Congress as encompassing “the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election and that includes investigating the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government and whether there was any coordination between the campaign and Russia's efforts.” Rosenstein’s order appointing Mueller specifically referenced “any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump” and “any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation.” The order appointing Mueller also invokes 28 C.F.R. 600.4, which provides that “[t]he jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall also include the authority to investigate and prosecute federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the special counsel's investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses.”

At least I don't use a creepy little girl's image as my avatar.

As for your posting, I'd say thanks if it had any relevance whatsoever to what I posted.

hcap
12-21-2017, 01:09 PM
At least I don't use a creepy little girl's image as my avatar.

As for your posting, I'd say thanks if it had any relevance whatsoever to what I posted.The Peace Girl avatar is more relevant than any of your fact-free bullshit.

You have a hard on for Trump.

OntheRail
12-21-2017, 01:20 PM
You are full of shit. As usual.

https://lawfareblog.com/trumps-potential-interference-muellers-investigation-what-watch

More specifically, Rosenstein assigned Mueller to take over Comey’s investigation, which Comey described to Congress as encompassing “the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election and that includes investigating the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government and whether there was any coordination between the campaign and Russia's efforts.” Rosenstein’s order appointing Mueller specifically referenced “any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump” and “any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation.” The order appointing Mueller also invokes 28 C.F.R. 600.4, which provides that “[t]he jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall also include the authority to investigate and prosecute federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the special counsel's investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses.”

Even with Muleheards over reach he has no collusion... on obstruction. The chicken shit they are picking thru... is weak and can be shown as bias and political. And while all this chickin' shit pickin' has been going on and your types licking it's lips and panting... Trump has been doing REAL WORK to MAGA.

Lemon Drop Husker
12-21-2017, 01:49 PM
The Drudge Advantage continues aas kissing. You Trumpeteers should have been there.......

https://youtu.be/tNujD-eSwv8?t=7

Sickening

Don Lemon and some other douchebags on CNN.

Yes. That IS sickening.

Fager Fan
12-21-2017, 02:16 PM
The Peace Girl avatar is more relevant than any of your fact-free bullshit.

You have a hard on for Trump.

Angry much?

Do you honestly not get that one can't obstruct justice when no crime has been committed? Or not see the absurdity in it?

And again, exactly what did Trump do that makes a case of supposed obstruction by being told by his legal counsel what the consequences could be for one of his staff lying to the FBI? You have to explain that to me. I could know that one of my employees is, for example, cooking up meth at his house, and I know he could get in serious trouble for that, but how is my knowing this make me "obstructing justice"?

chadk66
12-21-2017, 03:07 PM
Winning is tough business.

PaceAdvantage
12-23-2017, 03:13 PM
The Peace Girl avatar is more relevant than any of your fact-free bullshit.

You have a hard on for Trump.Diagnosis: TDS

hcap
12-23-2017, 03:55 PM
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/09/01/not_at_all_quiet_for_trump_on_the_russia_front_134 895.html

WASHINGTON -- Just so there’s no confusion: Donald Trump’s longtime personal lawyer emailed Vladimir Putin’s personal spokesman? Seeking help from the Kremlin on a deal to build a Trump Tower in Moscow? During the presidential campaign?

Yes, this really happened. While most attention was rightly focused on the devastating flood in Houston, there was quite a bit of news on the Russia front -- all of it, from Trump’s perspective, quite bad.

The revelations begin with a Trump business associate named Felix Sater. A Russian emigre who bragged about his Kremlin connections, Sater was a principal figure in development of the Trump Soho hotel and condominium project in lower Manhattan. Sater wrote a series of emails to Trump’s lawyer, Michael Cohen, touting the Moscow Trump Tower project as a way to help Trump win the presidency.

In November 2015 -- five months after Trump had entered the race for the Republican presidential nomination -- Sater wrote to Cohen that he had “arranged” for Trump’s daughter Ivanka, during a 2006 visit to Moscow, “to sit in Putins private chair at his desk and office in the Kremlin.”

The email went on, “I will get Putin on this program and we will get Donald elected. We both know no one else knows how to pull this off without stupidity or greed getting in the way. I know how to play it and we will get this done. Buddy our boy can become President of the USA and we can engineer it. I will get all of Putins team to buy in on this.”

Could Sater be just a blowhard who exaggerated his influence with the Russian president? Perhaps. But Ivanka Trump did tell The New York Times that she took a “brief tour of Red Square and the Kremlin” during that 2006 visit. The Times reported she said that “it is possible she sat in Mr. Putin’s chair during that tour but she did not recall it.”

There is no evidence that Cohen, one of Trump’s closest associates, found anything improper in Sater’s pledge to get Putin “on this program.” Nor did Cohen or anyone in the Trump Organization bother to disclose the emails -- or the Trump firm’s effort, even during the campaign, to profitably emblazon the Trump name on the Moscow skyline -- until the correspondence was turned over to the House Intelligence Committee on Monday.

BTW,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Sater

In 1998, Sater pleaded guilty to his involvement in a $40 million stock fraud scheme orchestrated by the Russian Mafia.[7][8] In exchange for his guilty plea, he agreed to become an informant for the Federal Bureau of Investigation and federal prosecutors, assisting with organized crime. In July 2017, it was reported that Sater had agreed to cooperate with investigators concerning an international money laundering scheme.[9]

hcap
12-23-2017, 03:58 PM
And there’s more: In January 2016, with the Moscow project apparently stalled, Cohen went straight to the top to get it back on track -- or at least tried to. He sent an email to Dmitry Peskov, Putin’s longtime personal spokesman, “hereby requesting your assistance.”

Peskov confirmed that the email was received but said he did nothing about it and that it was not given to Putin.

So Trump was lying when he tweeted, shortly before his inauguration, that “I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA -- NO DEALS, NO LOANS, NO NOTHING!” The truth is that in October 2015, on the same day he participated in a GOP candidates’ debate, he signed a letter of intent for the Moscow Trump Tower project.

That is a “deal,” and Trump’s hunger to keep it alive may explain his reluctance to say anything critical about Putin. Or it may tell just part of the story.

The other part involves the whole question of collusion between Russian officials and the Trump campaign to meddle with the election and boost Trump’s chances. Sater’s boasts, by themselves, are hardly definitive. But of course there is the larger context, which includes the infamous meeting that Donald Trump Jr. convened in New York at which he hoped to receive dirt, courtesy of the Russian government, on Hillary Clinton.

Tom
12-23-2017, 04:11 PM
Merry Christmas, Harry. :ThmbUp:

Politically incorrect by design!

woodtoo
12-23-2017, 04:14 PM
:lol: They won't even add their own names instead (c)2017 Post Writers Group

Too bad they don't show any real evidence like perhaps the actual email they speak of. :lol:

OntheRail
12-23-2017, 04:17 PM
hcap.... are you stuffing a mattress or building a hut with all the straw your grabbing at? :pound:

hcap
12-23-2017, 04:20 PM
Merry Christmas, Harry. :ThmbUp:

Politically incorrect by design!Happy Hanukah Tom
On this site those who dump on Trump are the politically incorrect
PA thinks I suffer from TDS. You gents have THS

T hard on S:cool:

PaceAdvantage
12-23-2017, 04:22 PM
Nobody is politically incorrect on this forum. All opinions are welcome. Even yours, believe it or not.

Happy Holidays!

Tom
12-23-2017, 05:19 PM
Happy Hanukah Tom

Touche! :D

chadk66
12-23-2017, 09:01 PM
Fake News? no way :lol:

hcap
12-24-2017, 12:23 AM
So Trump was lying when he tweeted, shortly before his inauguration, that “I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA -- NO DEALS, NO LOANS, NO NOTHING!” The truth is that in October 2015, on the same day he participated in a GOP candidates’ debate, he signed a letter of intent for the Moscow Trump Tower project.
I know how much youse guys love Rachel Maddow as a non fake Real reporter. The house repug intel committee runs and hides just like you gents

Trump partner with mob ties interviewed out of range of Democrats
Rachel Maddow reports on the colorful background of Donald Trump business partner Felix Sater, from ties to organized crime to FBI informant, and wonders why this particular witness was interviewed by House Intel staff in New York instead of D.C.


http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trump-partner-with-mob-ties-interviewed-out-of-range-of-democrats-1122891843739

Tom
12-24-2017, 09:07 AM
Did she, by chance investigate OBama's ties to TERRORISTS right here in DC?

Thought not.

JustRalph
12-24-2017, 01:12 PM
There is no way you do real estate development in NY City and not be "acquainted" with the Mob.

It’s a given.

PaceAdvantage
12-24-2017, 01:15 PM
I know how much youse guys love Rachel Maddow as a non fake Real reporter. The house repug intel committee runs and hides just like you gents

Trump partner with mob ties interviewed out of range of Democrats
Rachel Maddow reports on the colorful background of Donald Trump business partner Felix Sater, from ties to organized crime to FBI informant, and wonders why this particular witness was interviewed by House Intel staff in New York instead of D.C.


http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trump-partner-with-mob-ties-interviewed-out-of-range-of-democrats-1122891843739Obama was elected and even allowed to continue being president despite his ties to Tony Rezko...thus I don't see the above as a problem.

You remember Tony Rezko, don't you? I do.

Probably most people don't though...because the complicit media tried it's best to poo-poo that particular ugly mark on Obama's record...unlike with Trump, where they will shine the brightest light on even the smallest stain.

OntheRail
12-24-2017, 04:23 PM
Obama was elected and even allowed to continue being president despite his ties to Tony Rezko...thus I don't see the above as a problem.

You remember Tony Rezko, don't you? I do.

Probably most people don't though...because the complicit media tried it's best to poo-poo that particular ugly mark on Obama's record...unlike with Trump, where they will shine the brightest light on even the smallest stain.

Yep if it weren't for it's double standards the Media by large would have none.

Imagine the press beating... if Trump was associated with domestic terrorist Bill Ayers instead of Obama. :popcorn: