Individual mandate self-destructing

[Clocker]

The ObamaCare individual mandate was designed to force the young and healthy to buy excessive insurance in order to subsidize older, less healthy people. But the Dems had to pass it to find out what was in it. It turned out to be a ticking time bomb.

The mandate provides an exemption if the cost of ObamaCare is more than 8% of annual income. As premiums steadily increase year after year, more and more people are exempt from the individual mandate. One more component in the death spiral. Given the ineptness and incompetence of the GOP in attempts to do anything about ObamaCare, it looks like it will have to die a slow death on its own.

For a 35-year-old couple, subsidies end at about $65,000 in income — but Bronze-level coverage costs an average of nearly $7,800, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation’s premium calculator. This premium will exceed 8 percent of the couple’s income unless their earnings approach $97,400. A 31-year-old couple with a toddler loses subsidies at an income of about $82,000, but would have to pay more than $9,800 for a Bronze plan — meaning they would be exempt from the penalty unless their earnings total nearly $123,000.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/454096/repeal-obamacares-individual-mandate-its-repealing-itself
And with ever decreasing subsidies from the mandate, the government subsidizing a young couple with one kid making up to $82K is sheer lunacy. But that was obvious from the beginning. It was just moving us further down the road to single payer.

[boxcar]

The ObamaCare individual mandate was designed to force the young and healthy to buy excessive insurance in order to subsidize older, less healthy people. But the Dems had to pass it to find out what was in it. It turned out to be a ticking time bomb.

The mandate provides an exemption if the cost of ObamaCare is more than 8% of annual income. As premiums steadily increase year after year, more and more people are exempt from the individual mandate. One more component in the death spiral. Given the ineptness and incompetence of the GOP in attempts to do anything about ObamaCare, it looks like it will have to die a slow death on its own.

And with ever decreasing subsidies from the mandate, the government subsidizing a young couple with one kid making up to $82K is sheer lunacy. But that was obvious from the beginning. It was just moving us further down the road to single payer.

Exactly! And that was always the plan from the git go. The Dems never expected ObamaCare, in its original form, to actually work. It was just a large step in the direction of single payer.

[davew]

Exactly! And that was always the plan from the git go. The Dems never expected ObamaCare, in its original form, to actually work. It was just a large step in the direction of single payer.

How can you say that? none of them even knew what was in it.

[boxcar]

How can you say that? none of them even knew what was in it.

They had Obama's assurance that it wasn't a viable plan and that ultimately he would get his wish fulfilled for single pager.

[Tom]

The plan was a sure loser voted in by worse losers.
It was designed to fail.

So, mostie will argue, I am sure, that therefore, it is a success. :coffee:

[boxcar]

The plan was a sure loser voted in by worse losers.
It was designed to fail.

So, mostie will argue, I am sure, that therefore, it is a success. :coffee:

Yes, in Liberal La La Land, failing is succeeding. Kool, huh? :cool:

[NJ Stinks]

The ObamaCare individual mandate was designed to force the young and healthy to buy excessive insurance in order to subsidize older, less healthy people.

Guess what? Federal employees voluntarily buy excessive health insurance at a young age. And continue to buy it year after year as they continue to work for the federal government. When they get older, they have health insurance that is well worth having. In fact, loads of envious non-government employees claim that federal employees shouldn't be entitled to such a great health benefit since lots of non-government employees have less coverage.

I say too bad for the person who paid less for 30 years and then wonders why their health insurance sucks.

I also say don't feed me the myth that I pay (and paid) squat for my health insurance over the years. Even though I am retired over 10 years, I'll be paying $590 a month next year for my secondary health insurance that I still get through my job with the IRS for over 33 years. Then I will pay another $134 a month for my primary insurance - Medicare. (I pay more for Medicare because I don't qualify for Social Security benefits.)

When I hear this garbage about people being "forced" to buy solid health coverage that will be a tremendous benefit to them later in life and how unfair that is, I immediately question why many in this country thinks it's the best place in the world to live.

Especially if you get real sick.

But that's me. (shrug)

[Clocker]

Federal employees voluntarily buy excessive health insurance at a young age.

The operative word there is "voluntarily".

And even then, I doubt that young single male federal employees buy insurance that covers treatment of female problems and prenatal care.

[NJ Stinks]

The operative word there is "voluntarily".

And even then, I doubt that young single male federal employees buy insurance that covers treatment of female problems and prenatal care.

No it's not. The point is that having everybody pay works! And there is no one health insurance plan specificly for men and another for women in the federal government.

The question is do we want a country where everyone has health insurance - and it's health insurance worth having? Or do we want to continue with this heartless bullshit where how much money one has rules the level of healthcare one gets.

[highnote]

The operative word there is "voluntarily".

And even then, I doubt that young single male federal employees buy insurance that covers treatment of female problems and prenatal care.

Do females have to pay for insurance that covers prostrate exams and surgery? How erectile dysfunction? Vasectomy? Testicular cancer?

And vice-versa -- ovarian cancer, pregnancy exams, C-sections, etc?

It probably all equals out in the end.

[Dave Schwartz]

The question is do we want a country where everyone has health insurance - and it's health insurance worth having? Or do we want to continue with this heartless bullshit where how much money one has rules the level of healthcare one gets.

I know I risk sounding like a liberal on this one, but I agree with Mr. Stinks.

IMHO, access to health CARE should be a *RIGHT and not a privilege.
(*Right for lawful citizens of our country, that is.)


Everybody I know who is against the ACA feels the way because they have good insurance through their work or they have plenty of money to just pay for whatever medical care they need.

Having not had a "job" since 1989, made me acutely aware of just how impossible it was to get anything that resembled "good insurance coverage" while self-employed.

I recall a long-time friend in the programming world who beat the "everybody-should-be-responsible-for-themselves" drum. He was in business, had plenty of money, and life was good.

Three years later, his business had failed, he was broke, and had cancer. All of a sudden, he understood what all those people who couldn't afford their medications or surgeries were talking about.

Pretty soon he had a GoFundMe campaign to finance his medical care.

Of course, this was the ultimate hypocrisy.



It would be nice if, just for once, the real problem instead of the symptom was addressed.

What I mean is that the real problem is not the cost of insurance but the cost of healthcare itself.

I get that doctors go to school for a long time. They deserve to recoup their time and money investment and make a wonderful living. However, when an emergency room doctor makes $500k per year and a doctor makes $65k for a 3-hr surgery, I think we've gone well-past the line of "wonderful living."

There are some things that should not be free-market because they are must-have items in a monopolistic economy.

Just my opinion.

Dave Schwartz

[OntheRail]

It would be nice if, just for once, the real problem instead of the symptom was addressed.

What I mean is that the real problem is not the cost of insurance but the cost of healthcare itself.

I get that doctors go to school for a long time. They deserve to recoup their time and money investment and make a wonderful living. However, when an emergency room doctor makes $500k per year and a doctor makes $65k for a 3-hr surgery, I think we've gone well-past the line of "wonderful living."

There are some things that should not be free-market because they are must-have items in a monopolistic economy.

Just my opinion.

Dave Schwartz

Yes the COST of Healthcare is the root problem... and they just flat out ignored it. They should of started there and worked outwards. These Healthcare conglomerates make competitive pricing unattainable as with Ma Bell they should be broken up... but with their deep pockets and cheap politicians on every DC corner that aint gonna happen. :coffee:

[Clocker]

The question is do we want a country where everyone has health insurance - and it's health insurance worth having?

Some of "WE" want a country where each person can determine what health insurance is worth having for him or her, and not be dictated to by a bunch of over-paid, over-reaching, incompetent, self-important bureaucrats feeding at the public trough.

[Clocker]

These Healthcare conglomerates make competitive pricing unattainable as with Ma Bell they should be broken up... but with their deep pockets and cheap politicians on every DC corner that aint gonna happen.

ObamaCare played a major role in increasing the consolidation of the medical industry. The new economics of the market under ObamaCare rewarded insurance companies that developed exclusive networks of doctors, clinics, and hospitals. It resulted in doctors selling their private practices to bigger clinics and hospitals, and in insurance companies buying those clinics and private hospitals and rolling them into their care networks.

[highnote]

Yes the COST of Healthcare is the root problem... and they just flat out ignored it. They should of started there and worked outwards. These Healthcare conglomerates make competitive pricing unattainable as with Ma Bell they should be broken up... but with their deep pockets and cheap politicians on every DC corner that aint gonna happen. :coffee:

Isn't this what Regan's push for deregulation was all about? Competition and survival of the fittest?

The cable companies are next. What, there are like 5 of them now?

This consolidation due to deregulation is ultimately bad for consumers, but great for lobbyists, shareholders and CEOs.

[Clocker]

Isn't this what Regan's push for deregulation was all about? Competition and survival of the fittest?

The cable companies are next. What, there are like 5 of them now?



How can there be competition in an industry where local governments grant monopoly franchises to serve the area? That is what encourages consolidation, market power and economies of scale. Satellite TV and the internet are chipping away at that power.

[highnote]

ObamaCare played a major role in increasing the consolidation of the medical industry. The new economics of the market under ObamaCare rewarded insurance companies that developed exclusive networks of doctors, clinics, and hospitals. It resulted in doctors selling their private practices to bigger clinics and hospitals, and in insurance companies buying those clinics and private hospitals and rolling them into their care networks.

That's true. Obamacare was a huge gift to insurance companies by forcing people to buy their crappy coverage.

I got the same crappy coverage before Obamacare, but for less money. It was a high deductible plan from Golden Rule Insurance. Golden Rule still offers the same plan, but it costs more now, and now I'm REQUIRED by law to buy it or something better.

If not for Senator Lieberman of Connecticut, the U.S. would have had single-payer insurance. Lieberman got snubbed by the Connecticut voters and lost the democratic primary. So he ran as an independent and won, but refused to vote for single payer.

It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if the U.S. Senators would have voted for single-payer. Lieberman probably got too much money from the Connecticut insurance companies to dare vote for single payer and take money out of their pockets. We're talking billions of dollars.

[highnote]

How can there be competition in an industry where local governments grant monopoly franchises to serve the area? That is what encourages consolidation, market power and economies of scale. Satellite TV and the internet are chipping away at that power.

Who owns satellite TV? ATT&T.

Who provides internet? Cable TV providers like Comcast, Cablevision, and Verizon control the copper and fiber.

[Clocker]

They had Obama's assurance that it wasn't a viable plan and that ultimately he would get his wish fulfilled for single pager.

I truly believe that Obama didn't know what was in it. When he was out on his endless tour drumming up public support, I think he actually believed what he was saying about saving an average family $2500 a year, or "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor."

The people in the administration who were driving passage were all conniving snakes, and Obama was naive and egotistical. That gang included Rahm Emanuel, Valerie Jarrett, Rahm's brother and Obama's chief medical advisor, Dr. Zeke Emanuel, and maybe the biggest weasel in the hen house, consultant Jonathan Gruber.

Long after passage, brother Zeke, aka Dr. Death, said that the true statement was "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor, if you can afford your doctor". But the last part was the fine print, and you don't put the fine print in political speeches.

And MIT Professor Gruber later stated in public that it was necessary to lie to the stupid American public to get the bill passed. I think he lied to the president too.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/11/10/obamacare-architect-yeah-we-lied-to-the-stupid-american-people-n1916605