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DeanT
11-19-2017, 03:18 AM
Wrote something on it with stats from Ray. Thanks again Ray.

http://www.harnessracingupdate.com/2017/11/19/brush-crush-deep-dive-half-mile-track-blues/

forced89
11-19-2017, 08:32 AM
Point well taken. Many years ago I lived near the old Roosevelt Raceway and because I owned a few shares of stock had free admission. I would go out every night just for something to do. My betting vehicle was a show parlay the goal of which was to Show in 10 consecutive races which most of the times took two nights.

My strategy was simple. I would only bet horses coming out of posts 1-4. They had to have early speed and look like they belonged in the race.

More often than not I was successful and collected on my parlay. One time using the same strategy but not parlaying the payoffs I collected on 29 consecutive show bets.

DeanT
11-19-2017, 12:32 PM
I know I am probably in the minority, but when I used to go live five days a week, each of us throwing in $5 and deciding on horses for our show parlay is something I enjoyed. Great memories.

cecil127
11-19-2017, 01:06 PM
Point well taken. Many years ago I lived near the old Roosevelt Raceway and because I owned a few shares of stock had free admission. I would go out every night just for something to do. My betting vehicle was a show parlay the goal of which was to Show in 10 consecutive races which most of the times took two nights.

My strategy was simple. I would only bet horses coming out of posts 1-4. They had to have early speed and look like they belonged in the race.

More often than not I was successful and collected on my parlay. One time using the same strategy but not parlaying the payoffs I collected on 29 consecutive show bets.

29 consecutive show wagers?:)
you woudnt be Brian "McNickles" father or G father by chance, would ya? date any girls in the tioga downs area "back in the day"?

miss that cat....+ the lockmeisters and all the :pound::lol: that came with them:D

pandy
11-19-2017, 08:02 PM
Wrote something on it with stats from Ray. Thanks again Ray.

http://www.harnessracingupdate.com/2017/11/19/brush-crush-deep-dive-half-mile-track-blues/


There are things that can be done to improve half mile harness racing. But, it's very hard to make changes. The drivers, owners, and trainers couldn't care less, especially at Yonkers, where they are making a good living. The tracks are afraid to make drastic changes because they don't want to lose the chalk bettors.

cj
11-19-2017, 10:14 PM
Wrote something on it with stats from Ray. Thanks again Ray.

http://www.harnessracingupdate.com/2017/11/19/brush-crush-deep-dive-half-mile-track-blues/

Good stuff Dean. Looking forward to Part 2.

pandy
11-20-2017, 08:18 AM
At Yonkers yesterday, we saw two of ways that the sport can offset the speed and post bias, longer races, bigger fields. In the mile and a quarter trot races that have ten horses (two start from second tier), $31.60 winner, rallied from 7th...$16.60 winner (pocket)...$9.80 winner from post 6...$11.80 winner...$118.50 winner from second tier...$35.60 winner...$5.40 winner...

In the seven mile and a quarter trotting races, only one wire to wire winner. Yannick Gingras, who is the best driver of a trotter, in my opinion, won three of the seven races and won with the two biggest longshots.

Having two trailers gets the flow going earlier because the horses are already outside, which makes for a more competitive race, and, the longer distance is more tiring so it's difficult to just go out and bottom out the field on the front end. This makes for a slower pace which allows the outside flow to get into striking position, so the races are more balanced (less wire to wire and pocket winners). Payoffs are better in these competitive trot races, which are bet heavily in Europe.

DeanT
11-21-2017, 01:56 PM
At Yonkers yesterday, we saw two of ways that the sport can offset the speed and post bias, longer races, bigger fields. In the mile and a quarter trot races that have ten horses (two start from second tier), $31.60 winner, rallied from 7th...$16.60 winner (pocket)...$9.80 winner from post 6...$11.80 winner...$118.50 winner from second tier...$35.60 winner...$5.40 winner...

In the seven mile and a quarter trotting races, only one wire to wire winner. Yannick Gingras, who is the best driver of a trotter, in my opinion, won three of the seven races and won with the two biggest longshots.

Having two trailers gets the flow going earlier because the horses are already outside, which makes for a more competitive race, and, the longer distance is more tiring so it's difficult to just go out and bottom out the field on the front end. This makes for a slower pace which allows the outside flow to get into striking position, so the races are more balanced (less wire to wire and pocket winners). Payoffs are better in these competitive trot races, which are bet heavily in Europe.


Thanks CJ.

Thanks for this Bob. I'll reference you in Part II. That's super interesting.

DeanT
11-24-2017, 10:48 AM
Part II. Thanks for everyone's help!

http://www.harnessracingupdate.com/2017/11/23/brush-crush-can-half-mile-tracks-create-better-product/

pandy
11-24-2017, 11:29 AM
I can't remember which tracks tried the slanted gate years ago, but gave it up. But at The Meadows it certainly helps, not only the outside posts, but The Meadows is also one of the least speed favoring tracks. Having the outside horses leave helps keep the pace honest.

DeanT
11-24-2017, 01:07 PM
I can't remember which tracks tried the slanted gate years ago, but gave it up. But at The Meadows it certainly helps, not only the outside posts, but The Meadows is also one of the least speed favoring tracks. Having the outside horses leave helps keep the pace honest.

I remember that too. I wondered why it died, but I assume it was because of complaints from factions, rather than data, because as the Meadows shows it seems it has some worth.

pandy
11-24-2017, 01:21 PM
It's hard to make changes because the tracks get a lot of complaints, either from the horsemen, or the bettors. Nobody seems to want change but without it the sport will continue to die.

As Dean Towers points out in his column, when the Meadowlands opened in 1977, hard core harness fans who were used to the half-mile tracks (Yonkers and Roosevelt) seemed to hate the Meadowlands because so many big longshots won and horses rallied from far off the pace. But the Meadowlands didn't need to get all of the current fans on board. It created its own fan base and it also had by far the highest percentage of crossover thoroughbred bettors who felt that the Meadowlands harness product was similar to thoroughbred racing.

The bottom line is, you should always try to put out the best product you can and don't worry about the naysayers.

cj
11-28-2017, 12:11 AM
Part II. Thanks for everyone's help!

http://www.harnessracingupdate.com/2017/11/23/brush-crush-can-half-mile-tracks-create-better-product/

:ThmbUp::ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

Another job well done.

chaz63
12-11-2017, 08:39 AM
Why can't the half milers at least only put 7 on gate with 1 or 2 trailers, like Western Fair. In a 9 horse field there(2 trailers), only one post has less than an 8% strike rate, the #7 hole

pandy
12-11-2017, 08:49 AM
Why can't the half milers at least only put 7 on gate with 1 or 2 trailers, like Western Fair. In a 9 horse field there(2 trailers), only one post has less than an 8% strike rate, the #7 hole

I used to hate trailers but now I agree, that's better.

wilderness
12-11-2017, 10:50 AM
Trailers only gain good percentages because of passing lanes.
Suggest you check same on tracks that don't have passing lanes.

chaz63
12-11-2017, 11:07 PM
Trailers only gain good percentages because of passing lanes.
Suggest you check same on tracks that don't have passing lanes.

Western Fair does not have a passing lane, Flamboro down the road does

pandy
12-12-2017, 12:11 AM
Western Fair does not have a passing lane, Flamboro down the road does

I haven't watched a lot of races from Western Fair, but it seems to have more movement than many half mile tracks. Certainly having trailers helps because you're not single file to the 5/8's like you see too often at Yonkers.