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View Full Version : what happened to the handle at Churchill


lamboguy
11-09-2017, 04:08 PM
i used to remember Churchill doing close to the same business as Aqueduct did not that long ago. they don't do $100,000 in the win pool these days, they used to handle a lot more

Augenj
11-09-2017, 04:45 PM
i used to remember Churchill doing close to the same business as Aqueduct did not that long ago. they don't do $100,000 in the win pool these days, they used to handle a lot more
It couldn't be that the increased takeout is wearing down the bettors, is it? ;)
http://www.drf.com/news/churchill-downs-increases-takeout-rates

JustRalph
11-09-2017, 08:40 PM
The racing sucks!

PaceAdvantage
11-10-2017, 12:58 AM
i used to remember Churchill doing close to the same business as Aqueduct did not that long ago. they don't do $100,000 in the win pool these days, they used to handle a lot moreChurchill never did "close to the same" business as Aqueduct...where are you getting this from?

Even looking at charts from 2015 bears this out...WPS pools, AQU was regularly doing 20-30% more handle...consistently

therussmeister
11-10-2017, 06:10 PM
The racing sucks!

But the betting is good in autumn.

Immanuel Kant
11-11-2017, 07:27 AM
I can't answer the question but I can tell you that in Canada, CD is no longer in the main DRF....if you are buying the Form and want CD you must buy the extra edition......

Here's the line-up of tracks in the Form today (Sat Nov 11)

WO
AQU
LRL
GPW
DMR
HAW

To my way of thinking CD not being published is one of those "Huh?" moments.

betovernetcapper
11-11-2017, 11:01 PM
If you were to eliminate the Derby, what do they have?

Dave Schwartz
11-11-2017, 11:03 PM
If you were to eliminate the Derby, what do they have?

Thank you.

Oops. Wrong thread.

DeanT
11-13-2017, 11:00 AM
It's amazing how much Churchill does in the one week, versus the entire year on their handle.

From the numbers I have , last year they did about $260M Derby week, and $266 million the rest of the year.

Ten years ago they did about $200M Derby week and well over $400M the rest of the year. Their handle per race outside Derby week has fallen by over a third.

Afleet
11-13-2017, 06:44 PM
It's amazing how much Churchill does in the one week, versus the entire year on their handle.

From the numbers I have , last year they did about $260M Derby week, and $266 million the rest of the year.

Ten years ago they did about $200M Derby week and well over $400M the rest of the year. Their handle per race outside Derby week has fallen by over a third.

but increasing the take doesn't affect handle per askinhaskin

Afleet
11-13-2017, 06:46 PM
But the betting is good in autumn.

I agree, you can get good prices there. It runs to form or it suits my handicapping style-not sure which one. Just wish they would lower the take, preferably, back below where it was and handle will increase

davew
11-13-2017, 08:02 PM
there are some rebate shops that do not offer them anymore (contract?)

Cholly
11-13-2017, 10:23 PM
It's amazing how much Churchill does in the one week, versus the entire year on their handle.

From the numbers I have , last year they did about $260M Derby week,

Ten years ago they did about $200M Derby week.

It'd be interesting to know are how much non-wagering revenue (ticket sales, suite rentals, food & beverage, etc.) did they take in Derby week? And Derby week ten years ago.

My guess is it would show that CDIís focus & energy are centered more around increasing the non-wagering revenue, of which a much bigger chunk ends up on the bottom line.

DeanT
11-14-2017, 11:34 AM
It'd be interesting to know are how much non-wagering revenue (ticket sales, suite rentals, food & beverage, etc.) did they take in Derby week? And Derby week ten years ago.

My guess is it would show that CDIís focus & energy are centered more around increasing the non-wagering revenue, of which a much bigger chunk ends up on the bottom line.

Their takeout increase helped the big day, no doubt. And signal fees have increased revenue as well.

Of course - and this is not talked about much - when CDI raises their signal fee for their big days, so does NYRA for theirs/Pegasus Cup etc - so it shuffles some revenue around.

I think they've done a great job with the Derby. But I hate they raised takeout for the other days a year. That just grinds bankrolls down and hurts the everyday player in the long run.

Fager Fan
11-14-2017, 06:06 PM
Their takeout increase helped the big day, no doubt. And signal fees have increased revenue as well.

Of course - and this is not talked about much - when CDI raises their signal fee for their big days, so does NYRA for theirs/Pegasus Cup etc - so it shuffles some revenue around.

I think they've done a great job with the Derby. But I hate they raised takeout for the other days a year. That just grinds bankrolls down and hurts the everyday player in the long run.

What do they raise their signal fee to for the Derby? How much is bet on track and off track?

The figure a couple years ago floated about was they make $100m on the Derby (or thereabouts, could include Oaks too).

Fager Fan
11-15-2017, 11:17 PM
What do they raise their signal fee to for the Derby? How much is bet on track and off track?

The figure a couple years ago floated about was they make $100m on the Derby (or thereabouts, could include Oaks too).


Would anyone know? For reasons unbeknownst to me, the handle isn't listed on the Equibase charts for Churchill as they are for other tracks, else I'd look up the answer to one of those questions myself.

metro
11-16-2017, 07:19 PM
Weather has hit Churchill hard this fall meet. Most days in Louisville are either overcast or outright rain with temps barely hitting 50 degrees. They've had more races taken off the turf than they've actually ran on it.

Next week looks a bit better, weather wise, for their closing weekend which is usually some very good racing, Clark, Golden Rod, KY Jockey Club, etc..

Afleet
11-18-2017, 12:14 PM
But the betting is good in autumn.

Had a monster day Friday(yesterday)-hit the last four races and lucky for me all the horses I wanted to bet on today are scratched-so saving money;)