Mass shooting at Texas church

[jocko699]

A lot of people have been killed. Prayers to all.

[ElKabong]

Pretty bad when this is the norm. Wish I had a solution but I don't.

Best I can offer is to make mental health care a priority in this country, and make a national plan (egads, a socialist plan you say!). There are a lot of deranged people in this world, best to either help them or lock them up. I'm not talking about people who chase kids off their lawn. I'm talking about nut cases that have to buy an arsenal to feel "safe". Cowards like that are the ones who need help

Most won't agree with me, and a plan to help the mentally deranged won't ever happen. It'll be a political football which kills it on the spot.

Give me the days when you resolved conflict face to face, man to man. Those days are gone. Long gone. Enter cowards with an armory of firearms, bombs and the occasional truck you can either park in front of a federal building, or use it to drive over people you don't know

It's not the weapon, it's the deranged coward who's armed to the teeth for whatever weak assed deranged reason they give. Stop turd wrestling with the nra. They're trying to keep easy cushy low pressure jobs & feel like they're providing you a service. They're nut less. What we need is a national mental healthcare plan that works. If not, this will forever be the norm (multiple killings outside a church service)

[RunForTheRoses]

Terrible, such crazy times we live in.

[JustRalph]

Very weird targeting

They say he’s an outsider?

If so, this is very strange

[jocko699]

The source has NOT been confirmed but they are saying the shooter was 29-year old and a recent convert.

[garyscpa]

The source has NOT been confirmed but they are saying the shooter was 29-year old and a recent convert.

A recent convert to what?

[FantasticDan]

The shooter:

https://heavy.com/news/2017/11/devin-kelley-p-sutherland-springs-church-shooter-patrick-kelly/

[Nutz and Boltz]

There is no place that is safe any longer. I never imagined that it would go this far where you have to look over your shoulder when you do the basic things in life like practicing your faith.:rant:

[jocko699]

A recent convert to what?

Radical Islam

[FantasticDan]

Radical Islam
Do you have a source for that claim?

Other than your ass, I mean..

[Tape Reader]

A recent convert to what?

TV cable news, Hollywood movies.

Sue Hollywood save the world!

[burnsy]

TV cable news, Hollywood movies.

Sue Hollywood save the world!

That's brilliant.....are these the times of stupidity we live in? The TV and Movies made me do it "defense?" That's the problem in a nut shell. There is no longer any personal responsibility. Church? That's a joke too......that's where most of these nut jobs come from. So "Church" has pretty much been a scam of evil for centuries now. Why is it a majority of this crap resonates from "religion"? I don't want to here the ISIS, BS. propaganda crap either.....there are whack jobs from every walk.

People act like these are "dangerous times" ....:bang: When were the safe times? History pretty much shows this has been going on since the beginning. People hating each other, people killing, genocide.......its all old news.

Then you'll hear all the crap . Prayers and wishes for the victims, same old garbage. Its too late for that now........that's what got these people killed. Church, religion........Mans greatest oxymoron........

[FantasticDan]

Then you'll hear all the crap . Prayers and wishes for the victims, same old garbage.

https://twitter.com/mjmckean/status/927278222412320768

[jocko699]

Do you have a source for that claim?

Other than your ass, I mean..

Now Danielle, I have no problem with your tendencies.

I said the source was not confirmed. Are you having your mensies?

[FantasticDan]

Now Danielle, I have no problem with your tendencies. I said the source was not confirmed. Are you having your mensies?Name the source.

[jocko699]

Do you have a source for that claim?

Other than your ass, I mean..

Cupcake,

Not as good as your Vox or Salon I am sure

http://www.smobserved.com/story/2017/11/05/news/texas-church-shooter-is-in-southerland-springs-tx-is-identified-as-devon-patrick-kelly/3188.html

[ElKabong]

That's brilliant.....are these the times of stupidity we live in? The TV and Movies made me do it "defense?" That's the problem in a nut shell. There is no longer any personal responsibility. Church? That's a joke too......that's where most of these nut jobs come from. So "Church" has pretty much been a scam of evil for centuries now. Why is it a majority of this crap resonates from "religion"? I don't want to here the ISIS, BS. propaganda crap either.....there are whack jobs from every walk.

People act like these are "dangerous times" ....:bang: When were the safe times? History pretty much shows this has been going on since the beginning. People hating each other, people killing, genocide.......its all old news.

Then you'll hear all the crap . Prayers and wishes for the victims, same old garbage. Its too late for that now........that's what got these people killed. Church, religion........Mans greatest oxymoron........

The killer had atheist / atheism Likes on Facebook. Maybe you can revise your post to such... You know, just a thought.

Eta... It's not "too late" for prayers to the fallen. I don't get into religious arguements other than to say " read the bible". Life doesn't end here, it's the beginning.

[FantasticDan]

Cupcake,

Not as good as your Vox or Salon I am sure

http://www.smobserved.com/story/2017/11/05/news/texas-church-shooter-is-in-southerland-springs-tx-is-identified-as-devon-patrick-kelly/3188.html
Your source is a tweeter named “Mustachio”.

Well done.

Btw the same fake Islam name was used by fake news sites who said the same thing about the Vegas shooter.

[JustRalph]

Good guy with a gun stops it.......

Btw, church shootings have been going on for years.

Why no security?

[JustRalph]

https://twitter.com/Chet_Cannon/status/927348704142548992

[ElKabong]

Good guy with a gun stops it.......

Btw, church shootings have been going on for years.

Why no security?

Good guy stopped it after28 people died. I know what you're saying and I'm not trivializing your point. Good on him, but people like this mass killer shouldn't be walking the streets. Neither should the guy that drove over people in New York earlier this week. Both events could have been prevented with some common sense and preventative actions via laws aimed at protecting the citizenry.

On the security issue, maybe there was, we don't know yet and may never know. If you ever was safe from this stuff, it would be in rural USA.

My church has (at least) two guys armed during services, if some nut job wanted to do this at our church those would be the first two you'd shoot. All it would take is 15 seconds of perusal and sizing up the situation. As for today's event, If he got off a lot of rounds early, it's game over in a church that small.

Things have to change.

[FantasticDan]

https://twitter.com/michaelskolnik/status/927325615451262976

[JustRalph]

Antifa

[ElKabong]

:headbanger:Antifa

I don't want to jump to conclusions, but Ive read where he posted as antifa. How legit is this post, JR?

Hate this stuff. Prayers out to those affected.

[JustRalph]

:headbanger:

I don't want to jump to conclusions, but Ive read where he posted as antifa. How legit is this post, JR?

Hate this stuff. Prayers out to those affected.

Who knows.....?

It’s posted a couple places I guess. One is 4chan which is a cesspool of shit, sometimes true, sometimes not.

Some are quoting he wanted to start a civil war.....

I’m sure something will eventually come out

[FantasticDan]

Who knows.....?

It’s posted a couple places I guess. One is 4chan which is a cesspool of shit, sometimes true, sometimes not.

Some are quoting he wanted to start a civil war.....

I’m sure something will eventually come out
I think what's coming out is that you're very comfortable floating around in that cesspool :ThmbDown:

http://www.newsweek.com/sutherland-springs-shooter-devin-patrick-kelley-was-antifa-according-far-right-702338

https://www.snopes.com/texas-church-shooter-antifa/

[JustRalph]

I think what's coming out is that you're very comfortable floating around in that cesspool :ThmbDown:

http://www.newsweek.com/sutherland-springs-shooter-devin-patrick-kelley-was-antifa-according-far-right-702338

https://www.snopes.com/texas-church-shooter-antifa/

I didn’t post any of that shit because it’s obviously fake.

The graphic I posted is an actual post......at least it was......

I’ve also seen graphics with supposed discussions between him and some Facebook friends, that talk about attacking churches. But I didn’t post them either.

Worried ? Btw, snopes has no cred anymore

[ElKabong]

Btw, snopes has no cred anymore

No doubt. I find it hard to believe anyone gives it a shred,of credibility anymore.

[FantasticDan]

No doubt. I find it hard to believe anyone gives it a shred,of credibility anymore.
Why does Snopes not have any credibility anymore? All the alt-righties here keep saying that, but never provide any proof or context..

[JustRalph]

Why does Snopes not have any credibility anymore? All the alt-righties here keep saying that, but never provide any proof or context..

The people who run it are huge libs who gave money to Dems and Hillary. They are also having serious personal problems that reveal their character......and it’s not good

[FantasticDan]

The people who run it are huge libs who gave money to Dems and Hillary. They are also having serious personal problems that reveal their character......and it’s not good
I ask for proof and context, you give me more far-right propaganda.

Proof. Show me something that proves Snopes got something wrong based on bias. Should be really easy if so many people here say they're not credible..

[FantasticDan]

https://twitter.com/gregabbott_tx/status/659427797853536256

https://twitter.com/danieljpowell/status/927368110998540288

[JustRalph]

I ask for proof and context, you give me more far-right propaganda.

Proof. Show me something that proves Snopes got something wrong based on bias. Should be really easy if so many people here say they're not credible..

I’m not going to argue snopes bias. We’ve been down that path before. Google is your friend. Do some "snoping around" :lol:

The fact that you even think that the Governor and the amount of guns etc is the reason why we have a problem, shows how out of touch you are. We have a people problem. Not a gun problem

[davew]

The source has NOT been confirmed but they are saying the shooter was 29-year old and a recent convert.

to what?

was dressed in black
was dishonorable discharged from air force after domestic violence
his wife's mom was member of targeted church

[Marshall Bennett]

I wonder if this tragedy would be getting more media attention had it occurred in a blue urban area instead of a red rural community in Texas. There's not a doubt in my mind. Next we'll hear it was karma for the congregation having supported Trump as we did with the hurricane that ravished SE Texas.

[Fager Fan]

That's brilliant.....are these the times of stupidity we live in? The TV and Movies made me do it "defense?" That's the problem in a nut shell. There is no longer any personal responsibility. Church? That's a joke too......that's where most of these nut jobs come from. So "Church" has pretty much been a scam of evil for centuries now. Why is it a majority of this crap resonates from "religion"? I don't want to here the ISIS, BS. propaganda crap either.....there are whack jobs from every walk.

People act like these are "dangerous times" ....:bang: When were the safe times? History pretty much shows this has been going on since the beginning. People hating each other, people killing, genocide.......its all old news.

Then you'll hear all the crap . Prayers and wishes for the victims, same old garbage. Its too late for that now........that's what got these people killed. Church, religion........Mans greatest oxymoron........

Only one religion has a group that is taught they'll be rewarded in heaven for being a murderous martyr. Don't blame this on other religions. This guy had no religion, certainly not Christianity, else he wouldn't have done what he did. So blame atheism and lack of morality, that makes more sense than blaming religion for this one.

[Fager Fan]

Why does Snopes not have any credibility anymore? All the alt-righties here keep saying that, but never provide any proof or context..

Because they write from a political perspective. They're not totally untrustworthy, I wouldn't say that. But if you're using the site to verify anything political, then you have to read with skepticism and look at the facts they do cite to see how partisan or non-partisan they're being.

[Parkview_Pirate]

... So blame atheism and lack of morality, that makes more sense than blaming religion for this one.

"Atheism" and "lack of morality" do not necessarily go hand-in-hand, as any satan worshiper can tell you.

When assigning blame for the shooter, I'd start with an abnormal brain chemistry rather than lack of faith in the supernatural.

[barahona44]

I wonder if this tragedy would be getting more media attention had it occurred in a blue urban area instead of a red rural community in Texas. There's not a doubt in my mind. Next we'll hear it was karma for the congregation having supported Trump as we did with the hurricane that ravished SE Texas.

That's odd because the lead story on the websites of the New York Times,Los Angeles Times and Washington Post in big headlines and plenty of related stories is about the church shooting.All the morning shows from the networks have been providing extensive coverage. The only mention of Trump is his tweeting from his trip to Japan about the tragedy,expressing his condolences.

So where exactly did you get this idea there's not much media attention as there should be?

[FantasticDan]

https://twitter.com/JenAshleyWright/status/927347603523690496

[FantasticDan]

Said the same thing after the Vegas shooting.

Weird that he was so vocal after the bike path attack.. :rolleyes:

https://twitter.com/AleemMaqbool/status/927427349745868800

[Clocker]

Us: Gun control?
GOP: NO
Us: Treatment for mentally ill?
GOP: NO
Us: Health care for bullet holes?
GOP: NO
Us: Anything?
GOP: More guns

You need to run some of that stuff through Snopes before posting it. :p

[Tom]

Antifa

Branch of the DNC, correct?
How did Danny miss that one - he seems to be the King Twit of Twitter.......

[Tom]

No doubt. I find it hard to believe anyone gives it a shred,of credibility anymore.

Uh......DAN does! :pound::pound:

[FantasticDan]

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/927543880798568448

[Fager Fan]

https://twitter.com/JenAshleyWright/status/927347603523690496

Who the hell is Jennifer Wright and why does anyone give a shit what she has to say on anything?

Post your own thoughts.

[tucker6]

Appears to have been a domestic violence dispute made worse by TX apparently not knowing that he had been dishonorably discharged from the service for domestic violence.

[FantasticDan]

Who the hell is Jennifer Wright and why does anyone give a shit what she has to say on anything?
Post your own thoughts.I'll post what I please. Thanks! :ThmbUp:

[Tom]

Who the hell is Jennifer Wright and why does anyone give a shit what she has to say on anything?

Post your own thoughts.

He will, just as soon as someone tweets them for him! :pound:

[tucker6]

I'll post what I please. Thanks! :ThmbUp:
He's right you know. I'd rather hear your thoughts than someone else's views. I don't know either you or Jennifer, but I spar with you at times on here and that means I want your hot take and not hers.

[Clocker]

Opinion: "If now is too soon to debate gun control, how long must Americans wait?" http://nyti.ms/2yzkxFV (https://t.co/IAqYfAnTra)We should wait until someone comes up with a plan for effective gun control that would prevent shootings like this one.

If the NY Times thinks that the time for a debate is now, they should start it with such a proposal, something other than the tried and failed plans like the highly touted, and hugely ineffective, Assault Weapons Ban.

[FantasticDan]

He's right you know. I'd rather hear your thoughts than someone else's views. I don't know either you or Jennifer, but I spar with you at times on here and that means I want your hot take and not hers.Posting tweets, articles, pictures etc is all pretty standard here, as it is on any forum. Just consider them an extension of my own "take", if that helps you.. :rolleyes:

[tucker6]

Posting tweets, articles, pictures etc is all pretty standard here, as it is on any forum. Just consider them an extension of my own "take", if that helps you.. :rolleyes:

Isn't it easier to post your thoughts than to go on other websites and find them in cartoons?

[Robert Fischer]

was this guy losing his wife/kid and a good chunk of $/lifestyle also?

similar to the Vegas shooter.

[woodtoo]

Posting tweets, articles, pictures etc is all pretty standard here, as it is on any forum. Just consider them an extension of my own "fake", if that helps you.. :rolleyes:
:rolleyes:

[Marshall Bennett]

That's odd because the lead story on the websites of the New York Times,Los Angeles Times and Washington Post in big headlines and plenty of related stories is about the church shooting.All the morning shows from the networks have been providing extensive coverage. The only mention of Trump is his tweeting from his trip to Japan about the tragedy,expressing his condolences.

So where exactly did you get this idea there's not much media attention as there should be?
I was really referring to yesterday following the shooting. The morning shows you refer to are 18 hours after the fact.

[JustRalph]

I wonder if this tragedy would be getting more media attention had it occurred in a blue urban area instead of a red rural community in Texas. There's not a doubt in my mind. Next we'll hear it was karma for the congregation having supported Trump as we did with the hurricane that ravished SE Texas.

Karma for supporting Trump was tweeted right after by multiple Dems.

[FantasticDan]

https://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/927595728838578179

[Clocker]

https://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/927595728838578179

I am shocked, shocked to learn that there are mindless true believers on both ends of the political spectrum. :eek:

[JustRalph]

Heard on radio today here in Houston that he thought his in laws would be in Church. I don’t know how much of that I believe, you’d think he would check the parking lot for their car?

[PaceAdvantage]

https://twitter.com/mjmckean/status/927278222412320768

Wow...who knew Michael McKean was such a dick?

[davew]

He's right you know. I'd rather hear your thoughts than someone else's views. I don't know either you or Jennifer, but I spar with you at times on here and that means I want your hot take and not hers.

I suspect that is what FantasticDan feels/thinks but could not word it in such an excellent way (in FantasticDan's opinion), but I have been wrong before.

[PaceAdvantage]

I blame video games...I think this angle is way overlooked and/or ignored.

They help to desensitize would-be shooters just a tad...

[OntheRail]

I blame video games...I think this angle is way overlooked and/or ignored.

They help to desensitize would-be shooters just a tad...

Could be...and overly violent movies.


Then again it could be Society is Over Medicated.
Can't deal with life... we have a pill for that. Christ just listen to any med add on TV. The May Cause Clause rattled of at breathless speed. Should give everyone a pause but they Hand them out like M&M's.

Hard to say for sure... the only certainty is they will blame the NRA and gun. :coffee:

[PaceAdvantage]

https://twitter.com/mjmckean/status/927278222412320768

Wow...who knew Michael McKean was such a dick?BTW, I wonder if Mr. McKean would have made the same exact crack if this insane person shot up a mosque or a synagogue instead of a church?

Something tells me he wouldn't have...he knows he has liberals on his side when he takes a jab at Christians...not so much if he were to attack Muslims or Jews.

[FantasticDan]

I blame video games...I think this angle is way overlooked and/or ignored. They help to desensitize would-be shooters just a tad...
Look at you getting your Tipper Gore on :rolleyes: :bang:

[PaceAdvantage]

Look at you getting your Tipper Gore on :rolleyes: :bang:I'm an avid FPS gamer...so I know what goes on in these games...and when you're in multiplayer, you can hear what others are saying via voice chat...it's brutal.

But roll your eyes and bang your head...that helps.

There's a reason most of these guys kill themselves after they are finished...they weren't desensitized enough I suppose.

[FantasticDan]

https://twitter.com/mjmckean/status/927278222412320768

Wow...who knew Michael McKean was such a dick?
Too acerbic for your gentle heart? Who do you think was offended, Paul Ryan?

[Tom]

What a dirt bag.
that is exactly what I posted when I gave your a negative rating.
Too bad I could not give you what you deserve in the real world.
DB.

[FantasticDan]

https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/927561322363080704

[PaceAdvantage]

No comment on my McKean theory of Christians vs. Muslims or Jews I see...not surprised...you can't argue the truth.

Nice try with taking the Fox host's comments out of context...you knew what she meant.

What did Lenny mean? Exactly what he said no doubt.

[FantasticDan]

McKean's "crack" was aimed at an elected official over the absurdity of calling for prayers (when people who were in church praying just got massacred), when that elected official actually has the power to try and do something about it.

You're saying McKean wouldn't have said the same thing had the church in question not been Christian?

Oy. :ThmbDown:

[PaceAdvantage]

McKean's "crack" was aimed at an elected official over the absurdity of calling for prayers (when people who were in church praying just got massacred), when that elected official actually has the power to try and do something about it.

You're saying McKean wouldn't have said the same thing had the church in question not been Christian?

Oy. :ThmbDown:I'll look for your valuable interpretive skills the next time a tweet of Trump's is being mishandled and abused...shall we talk about his fish feeding skills? :lol:

Regardless, it was an offensive and insensitive statement by McKean, that downplayed the power of Christian prayer that so many Christians put so much stock into.

He wouldn't have said the same thing if we were talking about Muslims or Jews...that's a guarantee. He doesn't have the balls.

[Marshall Bennett]

https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/927561322363080704
If you read what she actually said (which you probably did, but like most deranged twisted liberals like yourself, you print whatever suits your desire for people to read) she said that there's no other place she'd rather be than church. She said there she can seek forgiveness and be close to Christ.
Dan, you're truly pathetic.

[Marshall Bennett]

McKean's "crack" was aimed at an elected official over the absurdity of calling for prayers (when people who were in church praying just got massacred), when that elected official actually has the power to try and do something about it.

You're saying McKean wouldn't have said the same thing had the church in question not been Christian?

Oy. :ThmbDown:
There are many threads you should just steer clear from, Dan. You make any human of average intelligence, both left and right, look at you in total astonishment and wonder, "can people be that shallow?".

[FantasticDan]

If you read what she actually said (which you probably did, but like most deranged twisted liberals like yourself, you print whatever suits your desire for people to read) she said that there's no other place she'd rather be than church. She said there she can seek forgiveness and be close to Christ. Dan, you're truly pathetic.
Remind me how many times PA has chastised you for bigoted comments? :lol:

She said that she was looking for a positive in the massacre, and what she came up with was that if you’re going to get murdered, then church is a good place for it to happen, since the victims were happy and close to God, like she is when she’s at church..

You were on the right track with pathetic. :ThmbUp:

[Robert Fischer]

I'm an avid FPS gamer...so I know what goes on in these games...and when you're in multiplayer, you can hear what others are saying via voice chat...it's brutal.

But roll your eyes and bang your head...that helps.

There's a reason most of these guys kill themselves after they are finished...they weren't desensitized enough I suppose.

we live in a more desensitized time than when we were growing up, for sure

http://i68.tinypic.com/2qlr9e9.jpg
that's just after 5 seasons. Up to season 8 now, more violent in recent episodes.

[jimmyb]

Remind me how many times PA has chastised you for bigoted comments? :lol:

She said that she was looking for a positive in the massacre, and what she came up with was that if you’re going to get murdered, then church is a good place for it to happen, since the victims were happy and close to God, like she is when she’s at church..

You were on the right track with pathetic. :ThmbUp:

I'd wear those two red squares like a badge of honor.

[FantasticDan]

I'd wear those two red squares like a badge of honor.Darned tootin’ :ThmbUp:

[FantasticDan]

https://twitter.com/thenation/status/927651571969781760

[thaskalos]

No comment on my McKean theory of Christians vs. Muslims or Jews I see...not surprised...you can't argue the truth.

Nice try with taking the Fox host's comments out of context...you knew what she meant.

What did Lenny mean? Exactly what he said no doubt.

She MEANT to say the right thing...but the WAY she said it was beyond idiotic. Half of the victims were CHILDREN, for heaven's sake...and she is looking for "positives" in this heinous tragedy? The children won't have to "experience any pain or suffering anymore"? Is there really a "positive" in stories such as these?

When people are paid to talk...then they should be more mindful of what they say...IMO. And, in cases such as this, SILENCE is more useful than mindless babble.

[Clocker]

Wow...who knew Michael McKean was such a dick?

Seems to be a lot of that going around recently.

Maybe the "climate change scientists" might make better use of their time trying to fix that problem.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I think it is part of the much needed demise of political correctness.

[Tom]

I'd wear those two red squares like a badge of honor.
You're welcome.:D:D

[Tom]

There are many threads you should just steer clear from, Dan. You make any human of average intelligence, both left and right, look at you in total astonishment and wonder, "can people be that shallow?".

Agree -time for IGGY for him - IGGY is for people so stupid of so disgusting that there in point ever reading anything they post.
Danny boy hit a double in this thread.
DB

Beside, like horsey, the dude is nothing more than a meme repeater- why bother with a lazy DB?

[thaskalos]

I'll look for your valuable interpretive skills the next time a tweet of Trump's is being mishandled and abused...shall we talk about his fish feeding skills? :lol:

Regardless, it was an offensive and insensitive statement by McKean, that downplayed the power of Christian prayer that so many Christians put so much stock into.

He wouldn't have said the same thing if we were talking about Muslims or Jews...that's a guarantee. He doesn't have the balls.

This was McKean's way of telling the elected official that prayer alone won't do the trick...and that "something else" should be tried. There was no disrespect intended towards the people who pray...IMO.

And, before you ask...I know as much about McKean's intentions, as you do about his balls.

[elysiantraveller]

I blame video games...I think this angle is way overlooked and/or ignored.

They help to desensitize would-be shooters just a tad...

Nah it's looked at. A lot of shooters don't typically "fit" that profile though. I blame social media waaaaaay more but you are on to something as it's a part of a greater whole.

EDIT: saw your post about online play. We agree way more now.

[FantasticDan]

Good guy with a gun stops it.......
The good guy with a gun didn't stop it. According to authorities, he shot everyone in sight within the church. Reloaded and moved around freely within the church.

He was confronted outside when he had finished. And still the good guy didn't "stop" him. They exchanged fire and the shooter drove away. Police then chased the shooter until he crashed his vehicle.

[Parkview_Pirate]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/texas-shooting-church.html

The conviction of the gunman, Devin P. Kelley, for domestic assault on his wife and infant stepson — he had cracked the child’s skull — should have stopped Mr. Kelley from legally purchasing the military-style rifle and three other guns he bought in the last four years. But that information was never entered by the Air Force into the federal database for background checks on gun purchasers, the service said.

More gun control measures are not the answer, when the ones we have are bungled by government....

[Clocker]

The good guy with a gun didn't stop it. According to authorities, he shot everyone in sight within the church. Reloaded and moved around freely within the church.

He was confronted outside when he had finished. And still the good guy didn't "stop" him. They exchanged fire and the shooter drove away. Police then chased the shooter until he crashed his vehicle.

The "good guy with a gun" shot the bad guy, causing him to drop his gun and take off. There is no evidence yet as to what the bad guy might have done or could have done had he not been shot. If he didn't shoot anyone else in the immediate area at the time, he would have been at large, armed and dangerous.

From WFAA, ABC-TV in Dallas:

The local resident, who a neighbor described as the "nicest man on the planet" and who authorities are calling a "Texas Hero" had grabbed his rifle and engaged the suspect as he exited First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, just 40 miles southeast of San Antonio.

According to state officials, during the confrontation, the Good Samaritan managed to hit the suspect, who then dropped his assault-type rifle and fled from the church. The local citizen waved down another man driving by and the two chased after the suspect.

During their pursuit, the suspect, identified as Devin Kelley of New Braunfels, used his cell phone to notify his dad that he didn't believe he was going to make it. Kelley crashed a short time later.

Authorities found Kelley dead inside the vehicle and believe he died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound, but the pathologist will confirm his cause of death.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/resident-shot-at-and-chased-texas-church-shooter/489394061

[garyscpa]

The good guy with a gun didn't stop it. According to authorities, he shot everyone in sight within the church. Reloaded and moved around freely within the church.

He was confronted outside when he had finished. And still the good guy didn't "stop" him. They exchanged fire and the shooter drove away. Police then chased the shooter until he crashed his vehicle.

Whose side are you on?

[Marshall Bennett]

She said that she was looking for a positive in the massacre, and what she came up with was that if you’re going to get murdered, then church is a good place for it to happen, since the victims were happy and close to God, like she is when she’s at church..

You were on the right track with pathetic. :ThmbUp:
No, you're interpreting the article to your own vantage point. Where does it say "if you're going to get murdered, then church is a good place for it to happen"?
You are so full of shit Dan, and like a lot of liberals, you'll stoop as low as you have to trying to fight truth and logic. You won't even quote your own posted articles correctly.

[woodtoo]

7 out of 7 people who knew him say he was nuts, that enough for me. imo
No gun law can stop that.

[Clocker]

The media will have a hissy fit now. It turns out that the so-called "good guy with a gun" is a certified NRA firearms instructor. :eek:

[Mulerider]

The media will have a hissy fit now. It turns out that the so-called "good guy with a gun" is a certified NRA firearms instructor. :eek:

Local media now reporting that the perp had three gunshot wounds: one to the leg, one to the torso, and one, apparently self-inflicted, to the head.

Oh, and the citizen who shot him, Mr. Stephen Willeford, a former NRA instructor, used his semi-automatic rifle in the exchange. (Which is instructive, by the way: never bring a handgun to a rifle fight.)

As long as he lives in Texas, Mr. Willeford will never have to buy his own beer.

[Fager Fan]

Posting tweets, articles, pictures etc is all pretty standard here, as it is on any forum. Just consider them an extension of my own "take", if that helps you.. :rolleyes:

If you're posting someone to discuss what they posted, usually of someone relevant or important in some way, then that's one thing. To post some random person's posts is bizarre. No one here cares about someone more random than us. Sure, you can post anything you want, but it's lazy and annoying, and reminds me to not ever tweet because some odd people may post it places I hadn't intended for it to be posted.

[Fager Fan]

https://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/927595728838578179

That is a misleading headline. It intends to be inflammatory.

I am Christian but don't believe God has a hand in everything that happens to us. Others do. I read this guy as being one of the latter, and trying to explain how some good could come from tragedy.

Again, I don't believe that, but I would be more fair than splashing that headline. Some people feel the need to think even tragedy is "God's will."

[Clocker]

Local media now reporting that the perp had three gunshot wounds: one to the leg, one to the torso, and one, apparently self-inflicted, to the head.



He was wearing body armor and most reports are that he was shot through the armpit opening. The shot in the leg likely happened at the scene, but there were reports of the pursuers firing at him on the road.

Oh, and the citizen who shot him, Mr. Stephen Willeford, a former NRA instructor, used his semi-automatic rifle in the exchange. (Which is instructive, by the way: never bring a handgun to a rifle fight.) In the immortal words of a noted firearms instructor, Clint Smith, “The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should have never laid down.”

[Fager Fan]

https://twitter.com/thenation/status/927651571969781760

Oh, that's just priceless. Someone that shoots down innocents (or anyone not in self defense) before killing themselves is obviously thinking with a sound mind.

[Fager Fan]

She MEANT to say the right thing...but the WAY she said it was beyond idiotic. Half of the victims were CHILDREN, for heaven's sake...and she is looking for "positives" in this heinous tragedy? The children won't have to "experience any pain or suffering anymore"? Is there really a "positive" in stories such as these?

When people are paid to talk...then they should be more mindful of what they say...IMO. And, in cases such as this, SILENCE is more useful than mindless babble.

Look, I've watched this woman a lot. She ain't the brightest crayon in the box. Her two cohorts don't know how to respond to her half the time.

[JustRalph]

Thank you.....for correcting Dan.

[thaskalos]

Look, I've watched this woman a lot. She ain't the brightest crayon in the box. Her two cohorts don't know how to respond to her half the time.

This begs the question: "Why do you watch this woman a lot?" :)

[Tom]

Whose side are you on?

Hint.....it ain't the USA.

[Tom]

As long as he lives in Texas, Mr. Willeford will never have to buy his own beer.

gofundme.com/beerme

:headbanger::headbanger::headbanger::headbanger:

[Mulerider]

In the immortal words of a noted firearms instructor, Clint Smith, “The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should have never laid down.”

Indeed.

And this event in Texas reminds me of the old Jeff Cooper quote:

“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.”

[Fager Fan]

This begs the question: "Why do you watch this woman a lot?" :)

That's the morning news show I watch.

[JustRalph]

https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/927752872409948160

[Fager Fan]

Maybe the two sides should meet in the middle instead of feet planted firmly wide apart.

I do think there should be some things we can do to make it harder for the wrong people to get their hands on guns, and yes, more specifically semi-automatics.

I think we can support the right to bear arms while also supporting trying to reduce the incidents where innocents are mowed down.

[Clocker]

I do think there should be some things we can do to make it harder for the wrong people to get their hands on guns, and yes, more specifically semi-automatics.

Who gets to decide which are the wrong people?

Targeting semi-automatics is blaming the gun rather than the user.

And as a practical matter, discussing it is pointless. That genie is already out of the bottle. When a Democrat controlled Senate tried to pass an Assault Weapons Ban in 2013, aimed at evil semi-automatic, high capacity weapons, the bill failed 40-60, with 15 Democrats voting against it.

[Fager Fan]

Who gets to decide which are the wrong people?

Targeting semi-automatics is blaming the gun rather than the user.

And as a practical matter, discussing it is pointless. That genie is already out of the bottle. When a Democrat controlled Senate tried to pass an Assault Weapons Ban in 2013, aimed at evil semi-automatic, high capacity weapons, the bill failed 40-60, with 15 Democrats voting against it.

Criminals, the mentally ill, etc. I don't mean some random choice of people. It wouldn't stop the Vegas shooter, but it would this church shooter. I'm thinking along the lines of going after through prosecution, just like I think it could help clean the streets if we increase the punishment for dealing heroin.

No, it's not blaming the weapon. It's an acknowledgment that more people get mowed down when a semi automatic is in the hands of someone evil than a revolver does.

I'm not saying ban the weapon, but maybe there's more stringent licensing, and those caught with weapons who don't have the licensing pay a more severe price?

I'm at a loss for an answer. Our society has done a great job at taking God and shame out of our society, and I think having both of those things is a better solution, but how do we get that back?

[Tom]

Heard this guy should not have gotten a gun, but the Navy screwed up something?

[Clocker]

Heard this guy should not have gotten a gun, but the Navy screwed up something?

He was discharged by the Air Force for domestic violence. The military is supposed to notify the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) of such actions. The Air Force failed to do so.

http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/11/06/usaf-mishandled-texas-church-shooters-conviction-background-check-system-says-report/

[Clocker]

It turns out the "good guy with a gun" had one of those evil assault weapons. :eek:

During today’s press conference about the Texas mass shooting, the regional director of the Texas Department of Public Safety indicated that the Texas Good Samaritan, Stephen Willeford, engaged the Sutherland Springs shooter with his own AR:

“He armed himself with an AR assault rifle and engaged the suspect. They engaged in gunfire here at the church. We know that the suspect was shot, when he dropped his assault rifle and jumped in his Ford Expedition and fled the scene.”
https://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2017/11/texas-hero-reportedly-used-ar-confront-sutherland-springs-shooter/

[Clocker]

He was discharged by the Air Force for domestic violence. The military is supposed to notify the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) of such actions. The Air Force failed to do so.

http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/11/06/usaf-mishandled-texas-church-shooters-conviction-background-check-system-says-report/

Upon further review, the Air Force may not have screwed up. Very few military crimes are being reported to the FBI NICS database because the military and the feds apparently speak different languages.

The military has no charge for domestic violence and just calls it assault. And the shooter was given a bad conduct discharge, not a dishonorable discharge, and the law is unclear about the need to report the former.

https://www.thetrace.org/rounds/military-domestic-abuse-nics/

[FantasticDan]

Maybe the two sides should meet in the middle instead of feet planted firmly wide apart.

I do think there should be some things we can do to make it harder for the wrong people to get their hands on guns, and yes, more specifically semi-automatics.

I think we can support the right to bear arms while also supporting trying to reduce the incidents where innocents are mowed down.
Reasonable, common-sense comments. :ThmbUp:

Didn't take long for Clocker to jump on you for them. :ThmbDown:

[Clocker]

Reasonable, common-sense comments. :ThmbUp:

Didn't take long for Clocker to jump on you for them. :ThmbDown:

Jump on him? :D

I pointed out logically some reasons why the comments were neither common sense nor workable.

And to explain further, it is highly unlikely that the two sides can "meet in the middle" when many on the left openly advocate banning civilian ownership of guns, period, and give no indication of willingness to back down. And when many on the right are equally convinced that we don't need any more gun control laws because the ones we have are oppressive and don't work, and that there is no indication that more laws will work any better.

[FantasticDan]

And to explain further, it is highly unlikely that the two sides can "meet in the middle" when many on the left openly advocate banning civilian ownership of guns, period, and give no indication of willingness to back down.Please name me a member of Congress who has advocated this.

[Clocker]

Please name me a member of Congress who has advocated this.

I never said any member of Congress advocated this, at least not in public. Most members, even on the left, are smart enough to know it can't be done, and advocating it would often be political suicide.

Many have advocated a ban on ownership of "assault weapons", whatever those are. Diane Feinstein and, as Veep, Joe Biden come immediately to mind.

[FantasticDan]

I never said any member of Congress advocated this, at least not in public. Most members, even on the left, are smart enough to know it can't be done, and advocating it would often be political suicide.

So... then what's your point? You said there can be no meeting in the middle because "many" on the left want guns banned. Then you say that no left-member of Congress believes this could even be done, let alone advocates it.

So how does this prevent meeting in the middle?

[garyscpa]

Upon further review, the Air Force may not have screwed up. Very few military crimes are being reported to the FBI NICS database because the military and the feds apparently speak different languages.

The military has no charge for domestic violence and just calls it assault. And the shooter was given a bad conduct discharge, not a dishonorable discharge, and the law is unclear about the need to report the former.

https://www.thetrace.org/rounds/military-domestic-abuse-nics/

Good job, Air Force.:confused:

[Clocker]

So... then what's your point? You said there can be no meeting in the middle because "many" on the left want guns banned. Then you say that no left-member of Congress believes this could even be done, let alone advocates it.

So how does this prevent meeting in the middle?

I said that no left-member of Congress publicly advocates it.

How does a practical acknowledgement that a full ban is not currently possible translate into a willingness of those on the left to move more toward the middle? Meeting in the middle from where we are for many on the left would be a ban on "assault weapons".

Who on the left is willing to accept less gun control? Who on the right is willing to accept more gun control? How can we "meet in the middle" when both sides want to move further away from where we are, in opposite directions?

[JustRalph]

So... then what's your point? You said there can be no meeting in the middle because "many" on the left want guns banned. Then you say that no left-member of Congress believes this could even be done, let alone advocates it.

So how does this prevent meeting in the middle?

Democrats have done it in the States, Georgia is one example.

[jimmyb]

You're welcome.:D:D
I have to give it to Dan, he's consistent in the face of fire. It's an admirable quality.

[FantasticDan]

I have to give it to Dan, he's consistent in the face of fire. It's an admirable quality.Let's see, I've been called the following in this thread:

A "woman" having her "mensies"
Dirtbag
Deranged
Twisted
Pathetic
Stupid
Disgusting
Full of Shit
Un-American.

And had my rep points completely stripped, whatever those were.

So I'll gladly take the compliment. Even if it was tongue-in-cheek. :)

[tucker6]

Let's see, I've been called the following in this thread:

A "woman" having her "mensies"
Dirtbag
Deranged
Twisted
Pathetic
Stupid
Disgusting
Full of Shit
Un-American.

And had my rep points completely stripped, whatever those were.

So I'll gladly take the compliment. Even if it was tongue-in-cheek. :)

It's usually much worse by Tuesday afternoon, so you must be doing something right. :lol:

[Fager Fan]

I said that no left-member of Congress publicly advocates it.

How does a practical acknowledgement that a full ban is not currently possible translate into a willingness of those on the left to move more toward the middle? Meeting in the middle from where we are for many on the left would be a ban on "assault weapons".

Who on the left is willing to accept less gun control? Who on the right is willing to accept more gun control? How can we "meet in the middle" when both sides want to move further away from where we are, in opposite directions?

If the right is willing to, for example, make sure that the armed services report to the database those with ptsd or other mental issues, and those who had violent charges against them, the left wouldn't stop them. That is one way of meeting in the middle.

After adding that, then we can add non-military that maybe aren't in the database. The left may argue against that one, but hopefully they'd give in the face of supposedly wanting to stop gun violence. More meeting in the middle.

Stricter punishment for those possessing an illegal firearm. Maybe there should be restrictions in buying an arsenal though I would like to word it so that collectors in good standing aren't restricted. Surely there are ways to clamp down without violating the intent of the 2nd Amendment (which I think is ultimately more important than concern over the violence we've seen).

[chadk66]

Excellent interview

https://www.louderwithcrowder.com/exclusive-interview-stephen-willeford-texas-shooting/

[Clocker]

In 2012, the Texas shooter escaped from a mental health facility and was trying to carry out death threats. But many on the left still insist that the problem is guns, and anyone trying to make this into a mental illness issue is stigmatizing innocent people. :rolleyes:

New reports show that Sutherland Springs, Texas, shooter Devin Kelley was put into a mental health facility for the physical abuse of his wife, and her infant stepson but had escaped.

According to documents obtained by KPRC, an incident report filed by the El Paso Police Department showed that on the night of June 7, 2012, two officers were dispatched to find Kelley, who had just gone missing. The report reads that the officers arrived just before midnight at a bus stop where they found the future mass killer.

According to the report, officers learned Kelley was suffering from several mental disorders and was attempting to sneak in weapons to the Holloman Air Force base in order to “carry out death threats” he had made on his superiors.
https://www.redstate.com/brandon_morse/2017/11/07/update-texas-church-shooter-escaped-mental-facility-2012/

[thaskalos]

Do the mental-facility escapees retain their constitutional right to "bear arms"?

[FantasticDan]

Do the mental-facility escapees retain their constitutional right to "bear arms"?
Ask Tom :lol: :ThmbUp:

[elysiantraveller]

What's really interesting about this shooting is that it's a clear example of the failure of Gun Law in this country and the 2nd Amendment coming through to perhaps save further loss of life.

A few of your heads must be spinning.

[thaskalos]

What's really interesting about this shooting is that it's a clear example of the failure of Gun Law in this country and the 2nd Amendment coming through to perhaps save further loss of life.

A few of your heads must be spinning.

I don't know if "interesting" is the right word to use there. IMO...there is enough "proof" in these tragedies to support whatever belief the individual holds. The gun "hater" will say that this wouldn't happen if there were no semi-automatic rifles...and the gun "lover" will insist that this wouldn't happen if EVERYBODY was armed with such weapons. We all see things from our own particular vantage point.

[davew]

There needs to be a law - wait, there is one!! just a government employee did not follow it and register this guy for his domestic abuse....

[thaskalos]

There needs to be a law - wait, there is one!! just a government employee did not follow it and register this guy for his domestic abuse....

Does this government employee PAY for his incompetence?

[Jeff P]

Does this government employee PAY for his incompetence?

Probably not.

But I don't think anyone would be surprised, if down the road, some branch of the government ends up paying out some serious $$ for negligence.


-jp

.

[elysiantraveller]

I don't know if "interesting" is the right word to use there. IMO...there is enough "proof" in these tragedies to support whatever belief the individual holds. The gun "hater" will say that this wouldn't happen if there were no semi-automatic rifles...and the gun "lover" will insist that this wouldn't happen if EVERYBODY was armed with such weapons. We all see things from our own particular vantage point.

BUT the rub is in who pivots to logic and reason and those who pander to emotion.

There is absolutely ZERO doubt the 2nd Amendment folks are backed by data. We have gun laws. They aren't enforced. Here is my personal story with gun laws... in my past 6 purchases I've been declared by the background check; clear, wait, clear, wait, wait, clear. Nothing is on my record to deny me purchase but I don't gripe. My ARs all have round limiters (and I hunt with them) in their magazines except for when they are at home in the defense role. Meanwhile stolen HANDGUNS are the leading culprit and in my state they are required to be registered and aren't available if you are under 21.

What proof is there to support that ARs are the culprit? What proof against the murder statistic that rifles are bad? Here was a clear failure of GUN LAW.

The only possible solution to those wishing to limit these deaths is ban and I'm sorry but banning isn't happening.

[PaceAdvantage]

Remind me how many times PA has chastised you for bigoted comments? :lol:A whole lot, actually...but of course you missed all those...

[JustRalph]

Probably not.

But I don't think anyone would be surprised, if down the road, some branch of the government ends up paying out some serious $$ for negligence.


-jp

.

Pretty sure the Gubbermint is off the hook by law.

[thaskalos]

BUT the rub is in who pivots to logic and reason and those who pander to emotion.

There is absolutely ZERO doubt the 2nd Amendment folks are backed by data.


Man is instinctively driven by emotion more than by reason...and that isn't going to change. That's why these gun-law discussions erupt only during the "emotional times" surrounding a shooting tragedy...and they are put aside during the "quiet times". Our discussions are fueled mainly by EMOTION...no matter WHICH side of the gun-law argument we find ourselves on.

The "data" also tell me that I am safer in a plane at 35,000 feet in the air than I am in my own bathtub...but my emotions remain unconvinced of that fact.

[Clocker]

Does this government employee PAY for his incompetence?
This was not a case of a single person making a one-time mistake. This is a systemic bureaucratic problem. It turns out that for a number of reasons, including the fact that the FBI and the military do not speak a common language, few if any disqualifying offensives by military personnel are being reported to the FBI background check data base.

[thaskalos]

This was not a case of a single person making a one-time mistake. This is a systemic bureaucratic problem. It turns out that for a number of reasons, including the fact that the FBI and the military do not speak a common language, few if any disqualifying offensives by military personnel are being reported to the FBI background check data base.

Perhaps the military and the FBI should be persuaded to speak the "same language". Also...the "systemic bureaucratic problem" doesn't stop there. How many abused little kids are negligently returned to the hands of their abusers because nobody cares...while we spend our time arguing whether or not a Christian baker should serve a gay customer?

[FantasticDan]

A whole lot, actually...but of course you missed all those...The only missing going on is you missing my point. He called me pathetic, so I reminded him of how many times you've called him out for bigoted remarks..

[Clocker]

Perhaps the military and the FBI should be persuaded to speak the "same language".

That would require competence on the part of our law makers.

The problem stems from law makers who are more concerned with getting feel-good laws passed than making them understandable and enforceable. In this particular case, the law requires domestic violence convictions to be reported to the NICS database. But military justice does not use that term. They just call it assault. So it doesn't get reported because the law doesn't require reporting assault convictions.

The law also requires that dishonorable discharges be reported. But the shooter got a bad conduct discharge, which may or may not have to be reported, depending on details. So that didn't get reported.

[thaskalos]

That would require competence on the part of our law makers.


Forget it then...it's an impossible task.

[Man o' War]

Guns, Guns, Guns….no other civilized nation is as obsessed about them as we. We see little children (a 17 month old baby girl no less) being massacred in churches and schools which are supposed to be a safe haven for them and the politicians response is ‘they are in our prayers’ without any resolve to do something substantial about it. Not to mention our ‘Dear Leader’s’ response which was to say this is a mentally ill problem and not a gun problem, but he apparently doesn’t remember that he quietly signed a bill back in February pushed by the NRA that rolls back an Obama era regulation that prevented a part of the mentally ill population from obtaining a gun. Way to put your pen where your loud mouth is chump! The ‘boys with toys’ need not worry and can keep playing army with their AR15’s….while the carnage continues..:confused:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

[thaskalos]

Guns, Guns, Guns….no other civilized nation is as obsessed about them as we. We see little children (a 17 month old baby girl no less) being massacred in churches and schools which are supposed to be a safe haven for them and the politicians response is ‘they are in our prayers’ without any resolve to do something substantial about it. Not to mention our ‘Dear Leader’s’ response which was to say this is a mentally ill problem and not a gun problem, but he apparently doesn’t remember that he quietly signed a bill back in February pushed by the NRA that rolls back an Obama era regulation that prevented a part of the mentally ill population from obtaining a gun. Way to put your pen where your loud mouth is chump! The ‘boys with toys’ need not worry and can keep playing army with their AR15’s….while the carnage continues..:confused:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

Gee...I wasn't aware of that. I wonder why no-one here brought this to our attention before...:rolleyes:

[FantasticDan]

Land of the free, home of the overcompensating :bang:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/927873530959679488

[Clocker]

Americans make up about 4.4% of the global population but own 42% of the world's guns

And proud of it! :jump:

[elysiantraveller]

Land of the free, home of the overcompensating :bang:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/927873530959679488

Explain in your own word's why that is happening Dan.

[Fager Fan]

[/B][/COLOR]

Gee...I wasn't aware of that. I wonder why no-one here brought this to our attention before...:rolleyes:

Probably because none of us knew this. I didn't.

I think I'd be in favor of this rule, though the article leaves me with some questions.

First, this rule only resulted in 75,000 people being added to the database? I'm really surprised that the number is so low of people falling under those two criteria. This makes me wonder if I'm missing something.

Also, was this part of of a larger bill that was repealed? Was this part of the sweeping "undo executive orders Obama did on the way out the door"? Maybe I'm just ignorant, but a law passed by congress and then signed by the President can't just be undone by the President to my knowledge.

So I'm confused about what really happened here on this.

[Clocker]

he quietly signed a bill back in February pushed by the NRA that rolls back an Obama era regulation that prevented a part of the mentally ill population from obtaining a gun.

That Obama regulation violated Constitutional rights without due process. Each person put on the prohibited list is put there individually because of specific legal action taken against them. The regulation put thousands on the list without consideration of their individual circumstances, and gave them the burden of proof to show that they did not belong there. It was a violation of the basic principle of presumption of innocence.

[PaceAdvantage]

The only missing going on is you missing my point. He called me pathetic, so I reminded him of how many times you've called him out for bigoted remarks..My apologies then. I read your post wrong. It happens, as I'm sure you'll agree time and again.

[Tom]

[/B][/COLOR]

Gee...I wasn't aware of that. I wonder why no-one here brought this to our attention before...:rolleyes:

You might ask the question of Obama - he and the dems had 8 years to fix this. They spent their time blaming the repubs for blocking gun control when a huge hole in the system existed that they could have closed but failed.

I also blame the NRA and the GOP - both should have be well aware of this and done something. Both parties and lobbyist FAILED to protect the American people and share the blame on this one.

We need government by action, not by big mouths. Where was the miserable excuse of a pig, Upchuck Schumer on this one? Out chasing cameras.

Face it, like or not, the biggest reason we need guns is that we have a 100% totally useless and dangerous government.

[thaskalos]

Face it, like or not, the biggest reason we need guns is that we have a 100% totally useless and dangerous government.

I agree with you, Tom...but our situation is hopeless. If we are thinking of taking up arms against our government...then our fight is already lost before it's begun. They've got us by the short-hairs...and we know it.

[woodtoo]

Grow some more.

[Clocker]

Face it, like or not, the biggest reason we need guns is that we have a 100% totally useless and dangerous government.

We also need guns for personal protection, as shown by the recent events in Texas. A growing bureaucracy increasingly paralyzed by political correctness is making the government more and more ineffective.

An old adage among gun owners says that when every second counts, the police are only minutes away. The minutes are increasing steadily.

[Inner Dirt]

I am all for a little proactive policing. How the hell was the Texas shooter still breathing free air? He only got a year for fracturing a baby's skull. Certain people are just evil and cannot be fixed. I believe once you commit a violent crime you should lose some of your "civil rights." Once on the offenders list signing too loudly in church should get a visit from the authorities. The threshold for forced commitment to mental institutions and physiological evaluations needs to be lowered. Almost everyone of these mass murders threw up multiple red flags that weren't acted on.

Use a little common sense what would be easier, removing a 100 million guns (no idea the number) or a couple thousand unstable people from society?
Also for those anti-gun people that would not know a 9mm S&W from a .177 Crosman CO2 pistol a well maintained firearm can last for hundreds of years. You could stop selling guns today and death by firearms would not decrease one bit for quite a long time. The price of guns would just go up and black market sales would increase. Criminals will find a way to acquire guns. There are still hordes of 17th century flintlock pistols still functional today.

[Tom]

...what would be easier, removing a 100 million guns (no idea the number) or a couple thousand unstable people from society?

They are easy to find...they have those little D's under their names.

[Clocker]

MSNBC is the go-to source for the truth, as usual. This from yesterday, Tuesday:

On Tuesday's episode of Meet the Press Daily, panelist Yamiche Alcindor and host Chuck Todd incorrectly said Stephen Willeford did not exchange fire with the Texas church shooter or end his attack.

"When I was watching President Trump today, and he was making his argument that [the shooter] was essentially stopped by someone with a gun, I thought he killed himself," Yamiche Alicindor, a national reporter for the New York Times, said. "There was not a big gun fight, and he was not stopped. There needs to be a fact check on how it was stopped."

"Right," Chuck Todd responded. "The narrative with Mike Huckabee and the president is a little bit off the rails."
http://freebeacon.com/uncategorized/msnbc-panel-falsely-claims-heroic-neighbor-didnt-end-texas-shooters-rampage/

[Tom]

Actually, the Good Samaritan stopped the shooter by using his chainsaw bayonette.

Upchuck Todd - the voice of biased stupidity, day in day out.