I had a great time at the BC at DMR, but let's not do this again

[dilanesp]

The BC was a great experience. They screwed up the remote parking (management gave me a parking pass on site for Saturday after I complained about it), but the weather was great, Del Mar is beautiful, and there were no crowds and no lines. Saturday was a wild day of upsets and Gun Runner is the best horse in America, a legitimate champion who turned back Collected fair and square.

But it wasn't a success. Frankly, it was embarrassing to see so few people there. Belmont once had 39,000, but NYRA had an excuse-the weather was awful that day. I could barely stand to sit out in the grandstand for 2 minutes to watch the race that day. Del Mar had no excuse for the tiny crowd, and it is clear they are sensitive about this, because they are releasing inflated attendance claims.

I know there are debates about site selection, but if you are going to come to Southern California, Santa Anita is the place to be. Last year it was NUTS on BC Saturday. Del Mar is nuts on opening day in the summer. This was more of an afterthought.

[thaskalos]

The BC was a great experience. They screwed up the remote parking (management gave me a parking pass on site for Saturday after I complained about it), but the weather was great, Del Mar is beautiful, and there were no crowds and no lines. Saturday was a wild day of upsets and Gun Runner is the best horse in America, a legitimate champion who turned back Collected fair and square.

But it wasn't a success. Frankly, it was embarrassing to see so few people there. Belmont once had 39,000, but NYRA had an excuse-the weather was awful that day. I could barely stand to sit out in the grandstand for 2 minutes to watch the race that day. Del Mar had no excuse for the tiny crowd, and it is clear they are sensitive about this, because they are releasing inflated attendance claims.

I know there are debates about site selection, but if you are going to come to Southern California, Santa Anita is the place to be. Last year it was NUTS on BC Saturday. Del Mar is nuts on opening day in the summer. This was more of an afterthought.

Frankly...I don't give a moment's thought to the on-track attendance of a particular meet...even on the "glamour-days". Whether a marquee racing-day is held at DelMar or Santa Anita, or anyplace else...my excitement (or lack thereof) depends entirely upon the quality of the bets that I find...and the crowd around me is just an annoyance that I pretty-much phase out of the picture anyway. In fact...the tinier the on-track crowd...the better I like it. My best days at the track have been when there wasn't enough of a crowd there to start a respectable poker game.

And the only "embarrassment" that I've ever felt at the track was when a couple of Greek acquaintances spotted me there on an Easter Sunday.

[Fleur-de-lis]

Attendance was small b/c it was limited. The hoi polloi were not invited.

[dilanesp]

Frankly...I don't give a moment's thought to the on-track attendance of a particular meet...even on the "glamour-days". Whether a marquee racing-day is held at DelMar or Santa Anita, or anyplace else...my excitement (or lack thereof) depends entirely upon the quality of the bets that I find...and the crowd around me is just an annoyance that I pretty-much phase out of the picture anyway. In fact...the tinier the on-track crowd...the better I like it. My best days at the track have been when there wasn't enough of a crowd there to start a respectable poker game.

And the only "embarrassment" that I've ever felt at the track was when a couple of Greek acquaintances spotted me there on an Easter Sunday.

You aren't the BC's target demographic.

[dilanesp]

Attendance was small b/c it was limited. The hoi polloi were not invited.

They were WAY under their cap.

[GMB@BP]

Del Mar announced attendance of 37,692, slightly higher than the 37,500 cap that was set by the track. It was unclear why the attendance was higher than the cap, but tracks often count officials and members of the press in the attendance figures. Last year, the announced Saturday attendance was 72,811, without a cap.

They usually get close to 40k on opening day so not sure why they suppressed it a bit.

[Zaf]

In your estimation about how many people were there ?

[Zaf]

Del Mar announced attendance of 37,692, slightly higher than the 37,500 cap that was set by the track. It was unclear why the attendance was higher than the cap, but tracks often count officials and members of the press in the attendance figures. Last year, the announced Saturday attendance was 72,811, without a cap.

They usually get close to 40k on opening day so not sure why they suppressed it a bit.

Thanks

[dilanesp]

In your estimation about how many people were there ?

18k Friday, 22k Saturday.

Take a look at my photos in the live thread. Place was empty.

[oughtoh]

The BC was a great experience. They screwed up the remote parking (management gave me a parking pass on site for Saturday after I complained about it), but the weather was great, Del Mar is beautiful, and there were no crowds and no lines. Saturday was a wild day of upsets and Gun Runner is the best horse in America, a legitimate champion who turned back Collected fair and square.

But it wasn't a success. Frankly, it was embarrassing to see so few people there. Belmont once had 39,000, but NYRA had an excuse-the weather was awful that day. I could barely stand to sit out in the grandstand for 2 minutes to watch the race that day. Del Mar had no excuse for the tiny crowd, and it is clear they are sensitive about this, because they are releasing inflated attendance claims.

I know there are debates about site selection, but if you are going to come to Southern California, Santa Anita is the place to be. Last year it was NUTS on BC Saturday. Del Mar is nuts on opening day in the summer. This was more of an afterthought.

I grew up going to Del Mar, but with their parking situation, I decided not to go. I attended every Breeders Cup that Santa Anita has had. It was sad watching on tv and seeing how empty it Del Mar was. Have heard from other friends of mine that told me the same things that dilanesp posted.

[Zaf]

I guess its not the ideal venue for the BC for many reasons ? Many in the industry said it would not work so I guess they were right.

Z

[sour grapes]

maybe the outrageous cost has something to do with it?Personally i wouldnt spend a few hundred to go to the races.

[RunForTheRoses]

I thought it was good in that a fair mix of horses won not just SoCal specialists.
As far as it not being crowded isn't that a good thing for being an attendee? I see in another thread dilanesp arguing BC makes money on site, not sure about that, from the consumer end it doesn't matter, at least in the short run.

[upthecreek]

https://twitter.com/BreedersCup/status/927018744173404161

[pandy]

Looks pretty successful to me. I like that Del Mar isn't speed favoring, exciting finishes.

[upthecreek]

18k Friday, 22k Saturday.

Take a look at my photos in the live thread. Place was empty.
BC says 2 day total was over 70,000+

[dilanesp]

I thought it was good in that a fair mix of horses won not just SoCal specialists.
As far as it not being crowded isn't that a good thing for being an attendee? I see in another thread dilanesp arguing BC makes money on site, not sure about that, from the consumer end it doesn't matter, at least in the short run.

Live attendance is a lot more important than people here think.

It's important because BC sells a lot of expensive tickets and corporate hospitality suites and events, of course.

But it is also important because a big crowd is part of the marketing of the event. If only 15,000 people showed up at the Kentucky Derby, that would be very bad for Churchill Downs, because it would be terrible for their marketing, sending the message to the general public that their event isn't important.

This is why promoters paper houses and pad crowd counts. And it's why most BC's are at SA or CD these days.

Finally, no, a low crowd isn't a good thing for an attendee. It's a good thing for loner horseplayers who just want to stretch out and spend no money other than on coffee and wagering. But it's a terrible thing for all the people who pay hundreds of dollars for the ambience of a great live event. Would it be "good" for the attendees of Del Mar's opening day, who like to show up in beautiful dresses and drink margaritas and party, if they showed up one year and the place was empty? Is an empty bar or dance club "good" because you can stretch out.

The BC only gets a small cut of off track handle. They are putting on an event, and they need a critical mass of people to show up for it. For all sorts of reasons. The last two days diminished the event.

[lamboguy]

Looks pretty successful to me. I like that Del Mar isn't speed favoring, exciting finishes.this was real horse racing at its best. it was the best single day of racing that i can ever remember.

[Tom]

I guess its not the ideal venue for the BC for many reasons ? Many in the industry said it would not work so I guess they were right.

Z
Hard to find a place in the States further away from more horseplayers than Del Mar.

[dilanesp]

BC says 2 day total was over 70,000+

In the "live" thread, i posted a series of photos taken at the track yesterday. Empty seats, empty aprons, and empty betting lines. I am not the only person saying it too. Apparently the TVG hosts joked about it on air yesterday and someone here posted the quotes.

The crowd counts were vastly inflated. There were nowhere near 30k people on site. My only guess is maybe they counted every ticket distributed, whether or not it was used.

[Tom]

BC says 2 day total was over 70,000+

Brittnee Eurton spun the turnstiles for two hours before the first race. :rolleyes:

Who really cares?
The crown never once affected any of the races, and they are all that matter. I could not care less if Del Mar and the BC lose their asses. They don't care if I lose mine! :lol:

[upthecreek]

In the "live" thread, i posted a series of photos taken at the track yesterday. Empty seats, empty aprons, and empty betting lines. I am not the only person saying it too. Apparently the TVG hosts joked about it on air yesterday and someone here posted the quotes.

The crowd counts were vastly inflated. There were nowhere near 30k people on site. My only guess is maybe they counted every ticket distributed, whether or not it was used.

That was me who posted about TVG hosts(Simon & Kurt) and I'm not arguing,just reported what BC released It looked empty to me

[GMB@BP]

Live attendance is a lot more important than people here think.

It's important because BC sells a lot of expensive tickets and corporate hospitality suites and events, of course.



All this stuff is presold man, and it was sold out.

Now I wasnt there but sure looks like people were there, on track betting, maybe they just had more space, a better setup, not really sure but I think you selling something that doesnt line up with the numbers.

I have no idea if they will be back, but when you compare it to the outlier places they have gone, other than Keeneland, it seems like a success.

[upthecreek]

All this stuff is presold man, and it was sold out.

Now I wasnt there but sure looks like people were there, on track betting, maybe they just had more space, a better setup, not really sure but I think you selling something that doesnt line up with the numbers.

I have no idea if they will be back, but when you compare it to the outlier places they have gone, other than Keeneland, it seems like a success.

It couldn't have been sold out because between 3-4 Eastern the TVG guys were begging people to come out , "If you're in the area , come on out there plenty of room" was what they were saying. So I assume you could pay at the gate

[pandy]

They set a record on track handle and overall handle was outstanding. It was a big success.

[cj]

https://twitter.com/BH_JBalan/status/927000102178250753

[dilanesp]

They set a record on track handle and overall handle was outstanding. It was a big success.

I am very skeptical of the on track handle numbers. Even if we assume Del Mar's announced attendance numbers, the per capita would have to have shot way up. Last year 70k bet 13.5 million, just under $200 per capita. This year an announced 37k allegedly bet 16 million, shooting per capita up to $450.


Remember, the ANNOUNCED on track attendance on Saturday was the lowest in history. And there were no betting lines.

Were there some rich Saudis in the turf club making $100k bets or something? Otherwise, the BC is clearly lying. Maybe they are counting some off track bets in that number.

[cj]

I am very skeptical of the on track handle numbers. Even if we assume Del Mar's announced attendance numbers, the per capita would have to have shot way up. Remember, the ANNOUNCED on track attendance on Saturday was the lowest in history. And there were no betting lines.

Were there some rich Saudis in the turf club making $100k bets or something? Otherwise, the BC is clearly lying. Maybe they are counting some off track bets in that number.

All the money bet in the contest counts, and that is a substantial amount. And, no kidding, have you seen those Mongolian guys at the window? They bet more Saturday than I make in a year.

[pandy]

I'm sure there were a lot of people at Del Mar that are in the 1%, or not far below it. Plenty of big bets being made.

[upthecreek]

All the money bet in the contest counts, and that is a substantial amount. And, no kidding, have you seen those Mongolian guys at the window? They bet more Saturday than I make in a year.

But we all know you're way underpaid by TFUS

[Dtom80]

18k Friday, 22k Saturday.

Take a look at my photos in the live thread. Place was empty.

Del Mar is my home track. This was my first Breeders Cup. I don't have perspective on other BCs but I thought Del Mar did a great job and the track held true to form lots of long shots hitting the board. The parking situation needs corrected. I hope they come back sometime in the next 5 years

I've been to a few opening days and a handful of Pacific Classics. Without a doubt there were more than 22k on Saturday. The Infield was packed. I've never seen it that way

[burnsy]

Del Mar is my home track. This was my first Breeders Cup. I don't have perspective on other BCs but I thought Del Mar did a great job and the track held true to form lots of long shots hitting the board.

That's the part I liked about it. The courses were fair......SA is a conveyor belt compared to how those tracks played. A horse could actually move and close with results. Giving the Euro's and East coast a fair shake.

[pandy]

That's the part I liked about it. The courses were fair......SA is a conveyor belt compared to how those tracks played. A horse could actually move and close with results. Giving the Euro's and East coast a fair shake.

I couldn't agree more. Some of the BC days at Santa Anita were horrible, the track was a conveyor belt for leavers. It looked like half mile track harness racing.

[dilanesp]

Del Mar is my home track. This was my first Breeders Cup. I don't have perspective on other BCs but I thought Del Mar did a great job and the track held true to form lots of long shots hitting the board. The parking situation needs corrected. I hope they come back sometime in the next 5 years

I've been to a few opening days and a handful of Pacific Classics. Without a doubt there were more than 22k on Saturday. The Infield was packed. I've never seen it that way

The infield was not packed. You should have looked closer. Several areas were filled up with hospitality tents and premium seating, which was half full. The rest of the infield was more full than usual but that's because the patrons had less space.

The apron was empty FFS! When is the apron ever empty on a big day at Del Mar?

[RunForTheRoses]

I couldn't agree more. Some of the BC days at Santa Anita were horrible, the track was a conveyor belt for leavers. It looked like half mile track harness racing.

Totally have to agree and with the handle figures you posted it sounds like a success to me. With SA shrewd locals like Mandella would move up horses. Who woulda thunk Kimmel would have moved up his horse.

[RunForTheRoses]

The infield was not packed. You should have looked closer. Several areas were filled up with hospitality tents and premium seating, which was half full. The rest of the infield was more full than usual but that's because the patrons had less space.

The apron was empty FFS! When is the apron ever empty on a big day at Del Mar?

LOL doth protest too much. As far as only loners liking it uncrowded do you really like being shoulder to shoulder in a crowded pissy mens room? i would hope not.

[Robert Fischer]

Track is a little bit small, but they did a great job with both courses.

The site itself appears to be beautiful.

Possibly a moderate outside bias on the dirt, but that is tough to read, as pace-beneficiary closers tend to be a part of the outside flow. Gun Runner also rebuffed that flow, whether that is a testament to his performance or to the track being rather fair is a process of splitting hairs.

The 6f Turf Sprint was actually more fair(vs the Santa Anita downhill 6.5f course), in spite of the small course. The Santa Anita 6.5 downhill course kind of dictates tactics to inside draws, and can be a horse-for-course, course. Yesterday's turf sprint was mostly fair, and with the demise of the underlaid favorite, produced boxcar prices.

The broadcast was well done and professional.

The crowd was fine. Not a big deal to me regardless, but I understand Dilanesp is a glass-half-empty guy, and Harper/Fravel are going to be glass-half-full about their business.

[cj]

But we all know you're way underpaid by TFUS


Seriously, those guys had a stack of 100s at the windows like nothing I've ever seen before and they weren't putting them back in their pockets much when walking away.

[AndyC]

I am very skeptical of the on track handle numbers. Even if we assume Del Mar's announced attendance numbers, the per capita would have to have shot way up. Last year 70k bet 13.5 million, just under $200 per capita. This year an announced 37k allegedly bet 16 million, shooting per capita up to $450.


Remember, the ANNOUNCED on track attendance on Saturday was the lowest in history. And there were no betting lines.

Were there some rich Saudis in the turf club making $100k bets or something? Otherwise, the BC is clearly lying. Maybe they are counting some off track bets in that number.

Your info points to either a lower crowd count released than was actually there. The alternative would be that DM and the BC have truly gotten the rich elites to attend. Either way it looks positive not negative.

[ronsmac]

Live attendance is a lot more important than people here think.

It's important because BC sells a lot of expensive tickets and corporate hospitality suites and events, of course.

But it is also important because a big crowd is part of the marketing of the event. If only 15,000 people showed up at the Kentucky Derby, that would be very bad for Churchill Downs, because it would be terrible for their marketing, sending the message to the general public that their event isn't important.

This is why promoters paper houses and pad crowd counts. And it's why most BC's are at SA or CD these days.

Finally, no, a low crowd isn't a good thing for an attendee. It's a good thing for loner horseplayers who just want to stretch out and spend no money other than on coffee and wagering. But it's a terrible thing for all the people who pay hundreds of dollars for the ambience of a great live event. Would it be "good" for the attendees of Del Mar's opening day, who like to show up in beautiful dresses and drink margaritas and party, if they showed up one year and the place was empty? Is an empty bar or dance club "good" because you can stretch out.

The BC only gets a small cut of off track handle. They are putting on an event, and they need a critical mass of people to show up for it. For all sorts of reasons. The last two days diminished the event.I agree with everything you said except the small cut of off track handle. My rebates are a couple of points less than on a normal cali card.

[Redboard]

I hope they hold every BC at Del Mar. With all the chalk not only losing but most finishing up the track, it felt like Christmas. When favorites win I don’t. Love to see all the experts with pie on their face. I’m sure that the unfamiliarity with the track had something to do with it.

[dilanesp]

I hope they hold every BC at Del Mar. With all the chalk not only losing but most finishing up the track, it felt like Christmas. When favorites win I don’t. Love to see all the experts with pie on their face. I’m sure that the unfamiliarity with the track had something to do with it.

I think a lot of this is variance. There were a lot of false favorites yesterday, like Drefong and Arrogate, plus even a legitimate favorite in a 2 year old race like Bolt D'Oro can always regress.

Hold it again at DMR with a different group and maybe 7 favorites win.

[Southbaygent]

It couldn't have been sold out because between 3-4 Eastern the TVG guys were begging people to come out , "If you're in the area , come on out there plenty of room" was what they were saying. So I assume you could pay at the gate

Haha all of a sudden we’re believing TVG guys who we diss on this forum almost daily :lol:

As far as I know Tix were 100% sold out. If you got dropped off at über spot, security was asking to show your tix or you were told get back in line for über back Home.

I was there. Some spots crowded, some not. Was easy to eat, bet, pee. Ample parking.

Did all the sold tix show up, who knows? Mutuel handle was impressive.

The whole logistics of crowds reminded me of the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics where we geared up for nightmare crowds and traffic but all the spot-on planning made it all go smooth.

Crowd size or no, Del Mar did a stellar job hosting the BC. A week ago I would have said BC wouldn’t rerun to DMR, today I’m thinking “maybe”.

[upthecreek]

Haha all of a sudden we’re believing TVG guys who we diss on this forum almost daily :lol:

As far as I know Tix were 100% sold out. If you got dropped off at über spot, security was asking to show your tix or you were told get back in line for über back Home.

I was there. Some spots crowded, some not. Was easy to eat, bet, pee. Ample parking.

Did all the sold tix show up, who knows? Mutuel handle was impressive.

The whole logistics of crowds reminded me of the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics where we geared up for nightmare crowds and traffic but all the spot-on planning made it all go smooth.

Crowd size or no, Del Mar did a stellar job hosting the BC. A week ago I would have said BC wouldn’t rerun to DMR, today I’m thinking “maybe”.
I don't think Simon Bray & Kurt Hoover would tell people to come out if they knew they couldn't get in TVG is pretty tied in to Dmr On track all meets It wasn't like ass clown Schrupp was involved. Personally I could care less if they had 50 people or 50,000 BC my least favorite day of racing

[cj]

I don't think Simon Bray & Kurt Hoover would tell people to come out if they knew they couldn't get in TVG is pretty tied in to Dmr On track all meets It wasn't like ass clown Schrupp was involved. Personally I could care less if they had 50 people or 50,000 BC my least favorite day of racing

I'm not sure how it worked this year, but last year TVG had very few people on site. Were they live on track this year?

[elhelmete]

I'm not sure how it worked this year, but last year TVG had very few people on site. Were they live on track this year?

They were at the Brig, at least the two main hosts.

[Southbaygent]

I don't think Simon Bray & Kurt Hoover would tell people to come out if they knew they couldn't get in TVG is pretty tied in to Dmr On track all meets It wasn't like ass clown Schrupp was involved. Personally I could care less if they had 50 people or 50,000 BC my least favorite day of racing

Well they weren’t even on-site they were at the Brigantine restaurant (The Brig) up by the Amtrak tracks

[FakeNameChanged]

The BC was a great experience. They screwed up the remote parking (management gave me a parking pass on site for Saturday after I complained about it), but the weather was great, Del Mar is beautiful, and there were no crowds and no lines. Saturday was a wild day of upsets and Gun Runner is the best horse in America, a legitimate champion who turned back Collected fair and square.

But it wasn't a success. Frankly, it was embarrassing to see so few people there. Belmont once had 39,000, but NYRA had an excuse-the weather was awful that day. I could barely stand to sit out in the grandstand for 2 minutes to watch the race that day. Del Mar had no excuse for the tiny crowd, and it is clear they are sensitive about this, because they are releasing inflated attendance claims.

I know there are debates about site selection, but if you are going to come to Southern California, Santa Anita is the place to be. Last year it was NUTS on BC Saturday. Del Mar is nuts on opening day in the summer. This was more of an afterthought.
That's strange because NBCSN commentators made several comments about the huge crowds, I believe they said elbow to elbow at one point. Another time an owner or trainer said they couldn't get to the windows to bet their 66-1 longshot winner in the one race. With that said, the track(especially the turf course) & facilities looked beautiful when comparing it to some of our tracks.

[cj]

Well they weren’t even on-site they were at the Brigantine restaurant (The Brig) up by the Amtrak tracks

That is what I was getting at, BC doesn't let them broadcast on site best I can figure.

[Dtom80]

The infield was not packed. You should have looked closer. Several areas were filled up with hospitality tents and premium seating, which was half full. The rest of the infield was more full than usual but that's because the patrons had less space.

The apron was empty FFS! When is the apron ever empty on a big day at Del Mar?

I was in the Infield- somewhere around 1 it was crowded. Prior to that I thought the track did an excellent job of opening up space that they normally keep closed in season. At 10-11am I was thinking wow there will be plenty of space here- not the case at all. They had a ton of community involvement with restuarants- the food choices in season are typically awful. I think the out of towners I spoke to really enjoyed the site and being close to SD. The weather was perfect Saturday

Overall I thought they did a great job. The bus to satellite parking could have been figured out a bit better took us nearly an hour and fifteen minutes to wait/load and then leave the lot.

[jocko699]

They set a record on track handle and overall handle was outstanding. It was a big success.

Bob,

Totally agree. Here we had 2 days of what I deem "fair racing" from a gambler's standpoint mixed with beautiful weather. The classic was won by the best horse and the place and show horses figured.

I had a few live plays and cashed a few tickets but feel all gamblers felt that they really had fair chances.

I truly believe they will return to Delmar. Having been to the first one at HP and attending SA for others I feel DM is the best place on the west coast for the BC.

[LemonSoupKid]

Beautiful weather???

Today, maybe

[bisket]

The tickets were sold out in May. I got 2 on Stub Hub in August for trackside general admission and had to pay 300$ for each ticket. Lol I'm a union construction worker and the job I was on had some issues and laid everyone off. I tried to unload my tickets and ended up selling them a week before the event for the gate price. I just think it was a lot of corporate and Hollywood types that bought tickets, but didn't go. I have a few friends in California racing and I really wanted to make the trip. I like to surf and the beach and the track was something I was looking forward too. I like the Cup because I don't have to deal with the crowds. I'm a Baltimore boy and the tracks in California are excellent venues. Lol worst part is my business agent called with a job last Thursday. Ha Ha I wish I went through with the trip. I was at Santa Anita in 2013 and surfed San Onfre in San Clemente. Tons of fun!! At the Cup I can walk right up to the window and place my bet. That's the way I like it. I can stand in the walking ring and watch the runners get saddled. Those are important things to me. I'd rather pay a few hundred bucks to do that, than deal with the crowds at the Preakness.. just saying there's many different ways to look at it.

[jocko699]

Beautiful weather???

Today, maybe

Yes I said it

[cj]

Beautiful weather???

Today, maybe

What was wrong with the weather?

[Speed Figure]

I had a couple of friends that went as I was out of town and couldn't make it. They said it was fantastic!

[Jeff P]

BC Weekend's End, a little south of Del Mar, about an hr ago --

[TheGarMan]

What was the attendance?

How many tickets were sold?

How was the parking?

Is this better or worse? :bang:

I am getting way off the path, but these are the EXACT same questions we might be asking next year, when the Preakness is officially moved to Laurel...

In this game, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Gar

[ubercapper]

Haha all of a sudden we’re believing TVG guys who we diss on this forum almost daily :lol:

As far as I know Tix were 100% sold out. If you got dropped off at über spot, security was asking to show your tix or you were told get back in line for über back Home.

I was there. Some spots crowded, some not. Was easy to eat, bet, pee. Ample parking.

Did all the sold tix show up, who knows? Mutuel handle was impressive.

The whole logistics of crowds reminded me of the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics where we geared up for nightmare crowds and traffic but all the spot-on planning made it all go smooth.

Crowd size or no, Del Mar did a stellar job hosting the BC. A week ago I would have said BC wouldn’t rerun to DMR, today I’m thinking “maybe”.

Could some of the seemingly empty apron and other areas be the result of the chalets or other temporary venues that were available?

I know that was the case at Keeneland, where I could walk from the furthest temporary suite on the far turn to the finish line faster, and encountering less people, than on an average Saturday with 20,000 people there.

With good suites and chalets, many people stay where they are and don't venture onto the apron.

[GMB@BP]

http://www.drf.com/news/del-mar-likely-seek-host-breeders-cup-again-soon

Reserved seats for the Breeders’ Cup races were sold out in advance and were more expensive than in past years, reflecting demand. Harper said a future Breeders’ Cup at Del Mar would have a similar audience limit and ticket structure.

“I think that’s a great number,” Harper said. “You could get to mutuels.

“I think it’s one of the more profitable Breeders’ Cups. You have higher-end areas to sell. You don’t have to cram 45,000 people in there.”

Harper said one remarkable aspect of the weekend was Friday’s ontrack handle of $9.28 million, a 29 percent increase over the corresponding day at Santa Anita.

“I was surprised with the handle,” Harper said. “I didn’t think it would do that well.”

[CincyHorseplayer]

I want it at Santa Anita only because I annihilate the BC when it's there!

[dilanesp]

http://www.drf.com/news/del-mar-likely-seek-host-breeders-cup-again-soon

Reserved seats for the Breeders’ Cup races were sold out in advance and were more expensive than in past years, reflecting demand. Harper said a future Breeders’ Cup at Del Mar would have a similar audience limit and ticket structure.

“I think that’s a great number,” Harper said. “You could get to mutuels.

“I think it’s one of the more profitable Breeders’ Cups. You have higher-end areas to sell. You don’t have to cram 45,000 people in there.”

Harper said one remarkable aspect of the weekend was Friday’s ontrack handle of $9.28 million, a 29 percent increase over the corresponding day at Santa Anita.

“I was surprised with the handle,” Harper said. “I didn’t think it would do that well.”

In other words, Harper thinks it is better as an exclusive event for 35,000 rich people and with casual fans basically priced out completely and ZERO feeling of a big event with people crowding the rail.

I think that is awful and I hope the BC folks see that too and tell Harper to shove it.

[cj]

In other words, Harper thinks it is better as an exclusive event for 35,000 rich people and with casual fans basically priced out completely and ZERO feeling of a big event with people crowding the rail.

I think that is awful and I hope the BC folks see that too and tell Harper to shove it.

isn't that how it is for all sports now? It costs a fortune to go to the Super Bowl, World Series, NBA Finals, Stanley Cup, College Football Playoff,.etc. They sell what the market will bear, probably less in reality, and don't overcrowd people. Your average Joe is priced out.

[elhelmete]

isn't that how it is for all sports now? It costs a fortune to go to the Super Bowl, World Series, NBA Finals, Stanley Cup, College Football Playoff,.etc. They sell what the market will bear, probably less in reality, and don't overcrowd people. Your average Joe is priced out.

100%

[dilanesp]

isn't that how it is for all sports now? It costs a fortune to go to the Super Bowl, World Series, NBA Finals, Stanley Cup, College Football Playoff,.etc. They sell what the market will bear, probably less in reality, and don't overcrowd people. Your average Joe is priced out.

It's totally different, for several reasons:

1. A "sell out" at those events is a full stadium. Big loud crowds. I go to the Rose Bowl on occasion-- it's an almost incomparable event. I have also been to two summer Olympic Games. Again, stadiums were packed and loud.

Del Mar was much more like a REGULAR SEASON baseball game on Friday and Saturday. Half-empty, not much noise, no feeling of a crowd, no ambience. The way you achieve that ambience is by letting in the hoi polloi that Harper sneers at.

2. Most of the events you list are held at home stadiums of teams. However, the two things you mention that are at rotating sites-- the Super Bowl and College Football Playoff-- have minimum seating requirements. In other words, no small venues. The Super Bowl, specifically, was kept out of the Astrodome in the 1970's and Candlestick Park in the 1980's because the venues were too small (they held it at local college stadiums with more seats instead). The NFL has also required teams to install additional seating if they want to host the Super Bowl.

NOBODY is idiotic enough to do what Harper proposes- holding a gigantic event that rich people can sit in the luxury boxes of an empty grandstand and watch with no crowds and no feeling of excitement. It's an absolutely awful idea that would be terrible for the sport if the BC latches on to it.

[bisket]

BC Weekend's End, a little south of Del Mar, about an hr ago --

Dude did you have to...:D

[bisket]

I disagree that it's not available to the average joe... lol that's me. A few of the people I was supposed to meet there are as average as you can get. I can tell you The Cup I attended at Santa Anita the crowd was very manageable. I had grandstand seats, but spent half my time at the fence watching the races. I wish I had bought general admission and sat in a lawn chair. I could have watched the races without a problem in a lawn chair. Crowd wasn't boisterous at all. I did have to get to the walking ring shortly after the last race to ensure a good spot to watch the runners getting saddled. My uncle use to say, " If you like to go to the track, The Preakness isn't the day to be at the track". Not so at the cup in California.

[bisket]

One other thing. Joe Harper is a stand up guy.

[JustRalph]

isn't that how it is for all sports now? It costs a fortune to go to the Super Bowl, World Series, NBA Finals, Stanley Cup, College Football Playoff,.etc. They sell what the market will bear, probably less in reality, and don't overcrowd people. Your average Joe is priced out.

We got 6 tickets in the mid range for our employees last week to attend Texas vs Colts. Toss in two parking passes and we were closing in on a grand

[Saratoga_Mike]

isn't that how it is for all sports now? It costs a fortune to go to the Super Bowl, World Series, NBA Finals, Stanley Cup, College Football Playoff,.etc. They sell what the market will bear, probably less in reality, and don't overcrowd people. Your average Joe is priced out.

Everything he has posted in this thread is wrong or overstated, except the part about parking. The parking/exiting the lot is not well organized at Del Mar.

[bisket]

Everything he has posted in this thread is wrong or overstated, except the part about parking. The parking/exiting the lot is not well organized at Del Mar.

Yeah my friends ubered in and out. New English word...

[elhelmete]

It's totally different, for several reasons:

1. A "sell out" at those events is a full stadium. Big loud crowds. I go to the Rose Bowl on occasion-- it's an almost incomparable event. I have also been to two summer Olympic Games. Again, stadiums were packed and loud.

Del Mar was much more like a REGULAR SEASON baseball game on Friday and Saturday. Half-empty, not much noise, no feeling of a crowd, no ambience. The way you achieve that ambience is by letting in the hoi polloi that Harper sneers at.

2. Most of the events you list are held at home stadiums of teams. However, the two things you mention that are at rotating sites-- the Super Bowl and College Football Playoff-- have minimum seating requirements. In other words, no small venues. The Super Bowl, specifically, was kept out of the Astrodome in the 1970's and Candlestick Park in the 1980's because the venues were too small (they held it at local college stadiums with more seats instead). The NFL has also required teams to install additional seating if they want to host the Super Bowl.

NOBODY is idiotic enough to do what Harper proposes- holding a gigantic event that rich people can sit in the luxury boxes of an empty grandstand and watch with no crowds and no feeling of excitement. It's an absolutely awful idea that would be terrible for the sport if the BC latches on to it.

Haven't you been beating the drum for a long time now that DMR and BC aren't supposed to cater to the hoi polloi?

[elhelmete]

We got 6 tickets in the mid range for our employees last week to attend Texas vs Colts. Toss in two parking passes and we were closing in on a grand

And that's for two sub-.500 teams

[Southbaygent]

One other thing. Joe Harper is a stand up guy.

This

[AndyC]

In other words, Harper thinks it is better as an exclusive event for 35,000 rich people and with casual fans basically priced out completely and ZERO feeling of a big event with people crowding the rail.

I think that is awful and I hope the BC folks see that too and tell Harper to shove it.

Racing is simply following the lead of every other sport for the big events.

Watching on television along with the other 99% of the people who watched, it certainly seemed like a big event. Is it more important to have you feel like it's a big event or should the feelings of most all of the other fans matter?

BTW, there has been almost zero negative press about the BC in the San Diego papers. Most everybody acknowledged that parking and security screening could have been handled better but that was about it.

[Prioress Ply]

One other thing. Joe Harper is a stand up guy.

Yeah sure, just ask Ahmed Zayat.

[theiman]

Parking had to be incredibly overpriced as the aerial shots of the track showed the main parking lot, behind the clubhouse turn and near the Surfside Off Track building were half full. However, the dirt lots, on the other side of Jimmy Durante Blvd were full.
What I would have done is park my car at the Solana Beach RR Station and taken the free Double Decker shuttles to the track. Just to play it safe I would have bought an Amtrak ticket from Solana Beach to Oceanside for probably $10 and left the receipt in my car window, so, you wouldnt get a parking ticket, in case they were doing that.

[bisket]

Parking had to be incredibly overpriced as the aerial shots of the track showed the main parking lot, behind the clubhouse turn and near the Surfside Off Track building were half full. However, the dirt lots, on the other side of Jimmy Durante Blvd were full.
What I would have done is park my car at the Solana Beach RR Station and taken the free Double Decker shuttles to the track. Just to play it safe I would have bought an Amtrak ticket from Solana Beach to Oceanside for probably $10 and left the receipt in my car window, so, you wouldnt get a parking ticket, in case they were doing that.

Thanks for the tip. I was supposed to stay in Oceanside.

[VigorsTheGrey]

https://www.americasbestracing.net/videos/2017-surf-turf-and-classic

[CincyHorseplayer]

I've been Joe sour grapes all day. Looking at the replay of Gun Runner wow! Nice moment as a fan of the sport!

[Southbaygent]

Parking had to be incredibly overpriced as the aerial shots of the track showed the main parking lot, behind the clubhouse turn and near the Surfside Off Track building were half full. However, the dirt lots, on the other side of Jimmy Durante Blvd were full.
What I would have done is park my car at the Solana Beach RR Station and taken the free Double Decker shuttles to the track. Just to play it safe I would have bought an Amtrak ticket from Solana Beach to Oceanside for probably $10 and left the receipt in my car window, so, you wouldnt get a parking ticket, in case they were doing that.

That sparsely filled main parking lot was like $125 prepaid/advance sale only with tickets, you could not buy into that parking lot the day of. If you had a prepaid/preferred, it was nice :) very easy well contolled in/out. I’ve had Pacific Classic days be MUCH bigger parking nightmares

[dilanesp]

Haven't you been beating the drum for a long time now that DMR and BC aren't supposed to cater to the hoi polloi?

They make their money serving rich people. That is well known.

But never in my life did I think I would see a major racetrack executive advocate strictly limiting attendance at a major racing event to produce a half empty racetrack.

That is new, and horrible.

[dilanesp]

Racing is simply following the lead of every other sport for the big events.

Watching on television along with the other 99% of the people who watched, it certainly seemed like a big event. Is it more important to have you feel like it's a big event or should the feelings of most all of the other fans matter?

BTW, there has been almost zero negative press about the BC in the San Diego papers. Most everybody acknowledged that parking and security screening could have been handled better but that was about it.

I don't expect local yokel San Diego reporters to tell the truth. Civic pride, desire to cover the BC, etc.

And we have contemporaneous reports of people on Friday and Saturday saying the place looked empty on television. They posted it here.

[dilanesp]

That sparsely filled main parking lot was like $125 prepaid/advance sale only with tickets, you could not buy into that parking lot the day of. If you had a prepaid/preferred, it was nice :) very easy well contolled in/out. I’ve had Pacific Classic days be MUCH bigger parking nightmares

Cigar (1996) certainly caused parking problems, but the remote lots and shuttles were run better than they were this weekend.

[dilanesp]

Everything he has posted in this thread is wrong or overstated, except the part about parking. The parking/exiting the lot is not well organized at Del Mar.

Basically everything I said was confirmed contemporaneously by other posters in the live thread.

Our sport has a tendency towards cheerleading. What I have posted is the reality, which I hope BC officials are aware of.

[pandy]

Basically everything I said was confirmed contemporaneously by other posters in the live thread.

Our sport has a tendency towards cheerleading. What I have posted is the reality, which I hope BC officials are aware of.

So you're saying that Del Mar didn't do a good job? I've read several articles and quotes from the Palick report and other reporters that were positive. With a record on-track handle and a very high overall handle, I don't understand how anyone could say that they did a bad job. Yes, they limited attendance, Belmont does that on Belmont Stakes day. If the track is too crowded you're going to have a lot of complaints about long lines, etc.

[AndyC]

I don't expect local yokel San Diego reporters to tell the truth. Civic pride, desire to cover the BC, etc.

And we have contemporaneous reports of people on Friday and Saturday saying the place looked empty on television. They posted it here.

Based on your negative attitude regarding Del Mar hosting the BC going in it doesn't surprise me that you found reasons to back up your opinion. I have talked with many who have told me that they enjoyed DM immensely.

[LemonSoupKid]

Parking had to be incredibly overpriced as the aerial shots of the track showed the main parking lot, behind the clubhouse turn and near the Surfside Off Track building were half full. However, the dirt lots, on the other side of Jimmy Durante Blvd were full.
What I would have done is park my car at the Solana Beach RR Station and taken the free Double Decker shuttles to the track. Just to play it safe I would have bought an Amtrak ticket from Solana Beach to Oceanside for probably $10 and left the receipt in my car window, so, you wouldnt get a parking ticket, in case they were doing that.

My dad and I parked in those commercial areas (by a restaurant) across the highway, $6 uber ride away on Friday. No problem. We even ate at the restaurant when we came back, so I don't feel bad (wouldn't have anyways). On Saturday we had box seats, so parking was included.

I actually did well on the undercards for the most part, some close wins and losses. I did figure the track would be random. I was telling people that when you see little kids hitting $50-100 bets, you know you're in for it.

#5 and the word Gold turned out to be great handicapping, lol

All that said, I have no animosity, but I probably wouldn't return. I feel like Santa Anita is the same thing in every way, but better in each of the ways, as well.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Based on your negative attitude regarding Del Mar hosting the BC going in it doesn't surprise me that you found reasons to back up your opinion. I have talked with many who have told me that they enjoyed DM immensely.

Confirmation bias probably explains his observations. As I mentioned, I believe his parking comments were correct. My understanding is Del Mar doesn't pay up for very many uniformed off-duty police officers. And a lot of motorists simply ignore the parking attendants, creating chaos (hyperbole--really just a slow, disorganized drive out) on the way out. If I had to criticize something else, they should have added additional food counters. It literally took 30 minutes to purchase a hamburger (around 2:30 pm in the grandstand). Even on that front, I can't complain too much -- it was a high-quality burger, not the usual low-end stuff served at such venues.

Overall, the event was great - let's hope they do it again!

[onefast99]

They make their money serving rich people. That is well known.

But never in my life did I think I would see a major racetrack executive advocate strictly limiting attendance at a major racing event to produce a half empty racetrack.

That is new, and horrible.
Question what major sporting event doesn't do the same thing for their big day?

[Saratoga_Mike]

They make their money serving rich people. That is well known.

But never in my life did I think I would see a major racetrack executive advocate strictly limiting attendance at a major racing event to produce a half empty racetrack.

That is new, and horrible.

The track was not half empty. Stop.

[Saratoga_Mike]

In other words, Harper thinks it is better as an exclusive event for 35,000 rich people and with casual fans basically priced out completely and ZERO feeling of a big event with people crowding the rail.

I think that is awful and I hope the BC folks see that too and tell Harper to shove it.

Here you are on 10/17/16 (completely different, I'm sure :rolleyes:):

"It isn't "overcharging" or a ripoff to charge more money so that big spenders attend and people who think the market price is a ripoff- i.e., cheap people who refuse to spend money- stay home.

And cheap people are actually awful. They are why we can't have nice things. A market full of people who spend money gets you Del Mar. A market full of cheap people gets you a dumpy racetrack, or worse, an out of business one.

Cheap people are terrible parasites. You want something good? Spend some darned money, or stay home and let those of us who want to spend money and buy nice things do it."

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2061794&highlight=parasites#post2061794

[chiguy]

I worked on track Saturday till about 1PM. It was not crowded but there were plenty of people there. Nothing like opening day or PC day but a healthy number of people and more coming in, a lot more in fact when I was leaving at 1PM. I also worked at Pechanga casino later that day and they sold seats to their OTB with lunch. They charged $35 or $30. They also had a couple of areas that were no charge. They did this to ensure everyone had a great experience. I think Del Mar was thinking the same thing. I don't if anybody has a great time if you cram 40-45 k in there.

[thaskalos]

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2061794&highlight=parasites#post2061794

So...dilanesp thinks that the cheap people are "awful parasites"...because their thriftiness doesn't create enough opportunities for him to showcase his "squandering". In contrast...I enjoy being in the company of cheap people. It makes me feel like a "sport". :ThmbUp:

[thaskalos]

Dilanesp stated that: "Cheap people are actually awful. They are why we can't have nice things."

I consider this to be such a profound thought...that I am actually thinking of using it as a tagline here. Do I need dilanesp's permission in order to do that? I promise to give him full credit for the quote.

[cj]

Further argument for the Del Mar model:

Per-Capita Betting
2017 Del Mar $375.59 (on-track handle $25,181,317, attendance 70,420)
2016 Santa Anita $175.07 (on-track handle $20,742,847, attendance 118,484)
2015 Keeneland $218.31 (on-track handle $20,663,054, attendance 94,652)


http://horseracingbusiness.com/

[thaskalos]

Further argument for the Del Mar model:



http://horseracingbusiness.com/

Were the Mongolians there in 2015 and 2016?

[VigorsTheGrey]

Dilanesp stated that: "Cheap people are actually awful. They are why we can't have nice things."

I consider this to be such a profound thought...that I am actually thinking of using it as a tagline here. Do I need dilanesp's permission in order to do that? I promise to give him full credit for the quote.:lol::pound::jump::liar::ThmbUp: Nice...!

[Jeff P]

Further argument for the Del Mar model:



http://horseracingbusiness.com/


Although this model can work for major special event days such as BC, Derby, etc. --

The opposite is also true.

This model does not work for the other 360 days of the year. :)




-jp

.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Face it....racetracks need lots of people that lose lots of money on a regular basis in order to support their pseudo-professions...I guess they are seeking a higher class of regular losers, albeit at lower numbers, so they don't have to gaze upon or otherwise deal with all those "cheap, regular people" and other miscreants who in the past frequented racetracks...They only want rich trendies now, strutting about in their undersized partial "suits" adorned with women sporting elaborate head pieces, no doubt costing several hundred dollars each...oh vey...!

[thaskalos]

Face it....racetracks need lots of people that lose lots of money on a regular basis in order to support their pseudo-professions...I guess they are seeking a higher class of regular losers, albeit at lower numbers, so they don't have to gaze upon or otherwise deal with all those "cheap, regular people" and other miscreants who in the past frequented racetracks...They only want rich trendies now, strutting about in their undersized partial "suits" adorned with women sporting elaborate head pieces, no doubt costing several hundred dollars each...oh vey...!

The rich aren't dumb enough to "lose lots of money on a regular basis". If they were...then they wouldn't be RICH.

[VigorsTheGrey]

The rich aren't dumb enough to "lose lots of money on a regular basis". If they were...then they wouldn't be RICH.
Ok, point taken...but still the over-price of admission is rather irksome for regular players who essentially are priced out, along with lots of others...I would have liked to go but I read that general admission was SOLD OUT (even though it turned out there was plenty of room for more people to attend)...it should be a massive opportunity to create new fans to the sport and that's the main reason Santa Anita is way better for this purpose...

Have to agree with original poster...once at Del Mar is enough...TOO boutique and elite for the good of the sport here...

American racing emerged as a popular mass activity, unlike racing elsewhere (across the pond, for example, that is way, way more highbrow).

Not saying a shift in class of patrons wouldn't work, it very well could...and will probably move in this direction regardless because the middle and lower-middle classes have less disposable income available on a regular basis than their wealthier counterparts...

[rastajenk]

So much hand-wringing and consternation...Paraphrasing a Newsweek cover headline from the previous decade: "We are All Sociologists Now." :jump:

A couple of thoughts: San Diego is reputed to have the best weather on the continent. That alone should keep it in the rotation. The facility seems nice, no reason to deduct points for that.

And secondly, I could not care less about what the on-site attendance is, for any of these Big Days. It's a made-for-tv event in the first place, and evolved into a simulcasting behemoth, and now a stay-at-home wagering AND tv experience; it's never been an outreach to new fans to come and have fun standing in long lines for food & drink, bathrooms, and wagering. I think the notion of a smaller, more manageable crowd is more the 33-year distillation of several aspects, but running out the riffraff from an otherwise tony affair is not one of them.

Question I had while typing the previous paragraph (and it's easier to ask here than lookitup :kiss: )Has there always been full-card simulcasting of the Breeders Cup? Seems to me that back in the mid-80's we were still just getting individual (Triple Crown) races, and so we might have just got the Classic, or maybe the Classic and Turf...I forget.

[AndyC]

The rich aren't dumb enough to "lose lots of money on a regular basis". If they were...then they wouldn't be RICH.

Many people are rich enough to lose plenty of money and still be rich. Sometimes being rich isn't a function of being smart.

[LemonSoupKid]

Here's a post from the side of someone who stayed in a Breeder's Box on Saturday. It was super weird, on Friday they had ushers so that people wouldn't go from GA to the setup "box seats" which were elevated by a small stairwell with nice padded seats. On Saturday, no usher (closer to the late races when most people left too) was there from at least race 5 on, and the face was $550 for these seats. It was almost as if you could have just paid $50 and gone into a lot of these. I don't really mind, but it does make you feel salty when you have a $500 ticket and all you really needed to do was spend $50 to get the same thing, no one did or said anything. And there were some clear (not totally) unsavories that ventured up there. I gave one a beer, so I'm not trying to act like I don't like the common man or putting anyone down. But just saying.

It's interesting at Santa Anita I often try to do something similar, but it's a huge grandstand and they aren't even close to selling out so you aren't even taking anyone's seat. They typically have ushers. Or you can just sit on those platforms, which isn't horrible considering the view and the fact that it doesn't cost much to get in via GA.

[elhelmete]

Here's a post from the side of someone who stayed in a Breeder's Box on Saturday. It was super weird, on Friday they had ushers so that people wouldn't go from GA to the setup "box seats" which were elevated by a small stairwell with nice padded seats. On Saturday, no usher (closer to the late races when most people left too) was there from at least race 5 on, and the face was $550 for these seats. It was almost as if you could have just paid $50 and gone into a lot of these. I don't really mind, but it does make you feel salty when you have a $500 ticket and all you really needed to do was spend $50 to get the same thing, no one did or said anything. And there were some clear (not totally) unsavories that ventured up there. I gave one a beer, so I'm not trying to act like I don't like the common man or putting anyone down. But just saying.

It's interesting at Santa Anita I often try to do something similar, but it's a huge grandstand and they aren't even close to selling out so you aren't even taking anyone's seat. They typically have ushers. Or you can just sit on those platforms, which isn't horrible considering the view and the fact that it doesn't cost much to get in via GA.

I heard a few similar accounts.

I've been to SA and DMR many, many times. They're completely different set-ups.

And anyone who's spent time at older racetracks knows how oddly laid out they are, unlike modern sports stadiums. On 99% of the days you don't need to check anyone's tickets; you've got grandstand and clubhouse and that's it...if that! There are so many rabbit-warreny spaces and odd access points, and isolated seating areas. No matter how many times I go to SA I can discover a new nook I've never seen before. Ticketing these sorts of spaces and managing the revenue and access is not easy.

The last time I went to a BC at SA, I noticed how much more strict they were (2012 vs. 2009) with access to various seating and standing and food&bev areas. When DMR was announced as a host site one of the first questions I had was how they were going to carve up the place to manage ticketing and security. Looks like they did almost TOO good of a job.

[chiguy]

I think Del Mar should host again, but not as part of a regular rotation. I don't remember if NYRA is out of the BC hosting business or not but I would love to see a regular rotation of CD, SA and Bel. Every fourth year you could do it at KEE, or Del Mar or even Saratoga, that would be something to see.

[dilanesp]

Here you are on 10/17/16 (completely different, I'm sure :rolleyes:):

"It isn't "overcharging" or a ripoff to charge more money so that big spenders attend and people who think the market price is a ripoff- i.e., cheap people who refuse to spend money- stay home.

And cheap people are actually awful. They are why we can't have nice things. A market full of people who spend money gets you Del Mar. A market full of cheap people gets you a dumpy racetrack, or worse, an out of business one.

Cheap people are terrible parasites. You want something good? Spend some darned money, or stay home and let those of us who want to spend money and buy nice things do it."

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2061794&highlight=parasites#post2061794

Completely different. Del Mar charges a lot in the regular season, but doesn't cap attendance or not sell the apron.

[elhelmete]

Completely different. Del Mar charges a lot in the regular season, but doesn't cap attendance or not sell the apron.

$10 is a lot for clubhouse unrestricted? And ALmost anyone can get in free or reduced with very little effort or research?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Completely different. Del Mar charges a lot in the regular season, but doesn't cap attendance or not sell the apron.

Totally similar. Just remember next time, all your past posts still exist.

[stringmail]

Further argument for the Del Mar model:



http://horseracingbusiness.com/


It would be interesting to understand how much of that $25M is related to the churn on BC Betting Challenge. With 440 participants (new high I believe), betting $7500, they had a $3.3M essentially in the pool to begin.

It would also be interesting to understand how many contestants played remotely as opposed to at Dmr. They introduced remote option 1 to 2 years ago. Might not have been at Kee but I'm sure many wanted to attend in person at Dmr for the atmosphere and drove the handle

[AskinHaskin]

Yes, they limited attendance, Belmont does that on Belmont Stakes day.



Uh, Belmont has done that exactly once - in 149 runnings!




Some people who posted early in this thread don't seem to understand the simple math which results from the chunk of typical Dmr racegoers having been 'priced-out' having been those who would merely fill the apron and wander around drunk and aimless. The per capita was indeed much larger at the 2017 BC than in past years for that simple reason. A bit more room for those who push-through $40,000 on a card at the expense of those who push-through $40 on a card.

It may as well have been marked as a "record handle for a 2-day BC" given that there were two more races back when the record was set.

Most who take interest are far, far away from the BC venue, so it doesn't matter too much whether they cap attendance at the optimum number.

The 2017 BC fields just happened to be among the more competitive seen in the BC over time, and the fact that so many of those lined-up consecutively on Saturday made for some of the best wagering challenges you could dream-up.

And of course that's what drives handle...

[dilanesp]

Totally similar. Just remember next time, all your past posts still exist.

Which would be an issue if Del Mar's business model during the regular season (which I admire) had any relationship to its business model for the BC (which I don't). But it doesn't. Nice try.

[dilanesp]

Uh, Belmont has done that exactly once - in 149 runnings!




Some people who posted early in this thread don't seem to understand the simple math which results from the chunk of typical Dmr racegoers having been 'priced-out' having been those who would merely fill the apron and wander around drunk and aimless. The per capita was indeed much larger at the 2017 BC than in past years for that simple reason. A bit more room for those who push-through $40,000 on a card at the expense of those who push-through $40 on a card.

It may as well have been marked as a "record handle for a 2-day BC" given that there were two more races back when the record was set.

Most who take interest are far, far away from the BC venue, so it doesn't matter too much whether they cap attendance at the optimum number.

The 2017 BC fields just happened to be among the more competitive seen in the BC over time, and the fact that so many of those lined-up consecutively on Saturday made for some of the best wagering challenges you could dream-up.

And of course that's what drives handle...

There's plenty of truth in this post.

[biggestal99]

I think a lot of this is variance. There were a lot of false favorites yesterday, like Drefong and Arrogate, plus even a legitimate favorite in a 2 year old race like Bolt D'Oro can always regress.

Hold it again at DMR with a different group and maybe 7 favorites win.

Sheets guys said bolt was decent but way underlaid. Really loved the 2 horse.
Rats second. Nice exacta and tri however as they said to include the 6 and bolt.

Nice call by the sheets.

Allan

[elhelmete]

Love the backpedal here.

[dilanesp]

Love the backpedal here.

???

[uncbossfan]

Here is my perspective being that is was my first time ever to Del Mar. I was at CD in 2010 and Keeneland for their BC's tho so I do have those 2 to compare it to tho.

From a visitors perspective, it may be impossible to top Del Mar. We flew in Friday morning and out on Monday. Gave us two days of touristy time in San Diego, Pacific Beach, etc. To me this was part of why Del mar is a great site for the BC.

The crowd has been a huge topic on this thread and I can first hand say I was shocked at how much space we had as General Admission ticket holders on the apron. At Keeneland we got there minutes before gates opened and rushed in to get a bench and table which worked out as it was super packed on the apron. For Del Mar we didn't feel like getting there that early so we arrived 20 minutes to first post. All the benches as expected were gone, but you could easily get 3 -5 feet from the rail. They also sold BC folding chairs for $30. We waited too long to buy one tho and they sold out - big miss on our part as standing/sitting on the concrete was not that fun. What's interesting is the later the day got, honestly the less crowded it got. Not sure if people tried to beat the rush out, but the Classic where we stood was much less crowded than races 5 or 6. Another thing I saw was pretty many scalpers selling tickets on our way in. Looks like anybody shut out who wanted a ticket could've gotten in pretty reasonably if they took the chance on buying on site.

The betting windows were aplenty and pretty open. Again, never been to Del Mar before but it was never backed up that bad at all. Concession lines were less than average for an event this size as well. As a patron I found all of this fantastic and if they were able to make us there happy and still get a record on hand handle, great for them! (For the record I only made 1 bet at the track, rest was made on phone or I did a syndicate with 2 uncles which they bet back in KY so I am curious how much on track handle they missed out on)

The racing was incredible. I am a longshot player and finally had a big BC day so my opinion on the actual racing itself is skewed, but every race was thrilling, horses running well from tracks all over the world and payouts were big if you connected. again, the BC committee couldn't ask for much more.

We walked over to the infield for a race and they had a great set up! A lot of local beer and food vendors, the beach actually looked really fun and I wish we could've gotten al the way in to check it out and they had a cool park like feel around a monster video screen that seated a lot of people. Seeing the actual races from there was pretty limited tho except for The Beach area.

We took an uber in and that went very smooth. After the Classic we walked to some restaurant in Del Mar about a mile away and got a nice dinner and an uber back to San Diego was no problem once done. Even met some people from England who flew in for the races and are coming to CD next year.

Overall, I really can't find one negative thing from the actual BC experience other than beer prices were outrageous. $13 for a Coors light draft. I would definitely go back if they were to host again in another 5 years

[Lemon Drop Husker]

I'll throw my 2cents in and try to be as short as I can.

I've been to the last 9 BCs (excluding 1), dating back to Zenyatta's grand victory at Santa Anita in 2009.

I've absolutely enjoyed every single one of them.

While only 4 tracks have been involved (Churchill, Santa Anita, Keeneland, Del Mar), they have all had their good and great charms.

What I have learned over these years, is that you pay for what you get. And that you better pay to enjoy yourself, or submit yourself to being not as happy as you want to be.

I'm not rich by any standard, and we all knew Del Mar was going to be a pretty penny. Thus, we planned for it, and we always tip. Heavily..., but with purpose.

We also plan ahead for Saturday leaving the joint. We have successfully secured our private Uber/Taxi that will meet us at some certain rendezvous each and every time, and we pay handsomely for that service. We have always done that in prior pickups and tipping heavily for such service on Thursday or Friday. So while we waltz by a number of people yelling at us, we are set, and without a care all day long.

In the end, I have but one tip.

Be happy. Be friendly. Enjoy yourself. While my crew is from Nebraska and it comes natural to all of us to be openly jovial and stupid, it shouldn't be that hard to be that damn Joker smile happy when the BC is right in front of your face.
;)

P.S. It also doesn't hurt to hit a few winners :ThmbUp:

[Southbaygent]

Great post..I wish I’d considered the preplanned taxi/Uber when i was at Woodbine. The taxi queue there was a nightmare and it was very cold. And i was trying to get to hotel to watch the World Series, lol.

Repeating here my praises of DMR, all good for me.
I'll throw my 2cents in and try to be as short as I can.

I've been to the last 9 BCs (excluding 1), dating back to Zenyatta's grand victory at Santa Anita in 2009.

I've absolutely enjoyed every single one of them.

While only 4 tracks have been involved (Churchill, Santa Anita, Keeneland, Del Mar), they have all had their good and great charms.

What I have learned over these years, is that you pay for what you get. And that you better pay to enjoy yourself, or submit yourself to being not as happy as you want to be.

I'm not rich by any standard, and we all knew Del Mar was going to be a pretty penny. Thus, we planned for it, and we always tip. Heavily..., but with purpose.

We also plan ahead for Saturday leaving the joint. We have successfully secured our private Uber/Taxi that will meet us at some certain rendezvous each and every time, and we pay handsomely for that service. We have always done that in prior pickups and tipping heavily for such service on Thursday or Friday. So while we waltz by a number of people yelling at us, we are set, and without a care all day long.

In the end, I have but one tip.

Be happy. Be friendly. Enjoy yourself. While my crew is from Nebraska and it comes natural to all of us to be openly jovial and stupid, it shouldn't be that hard to be that damn Joker smile happy when the BC is right in front of your face.
;)

P.S. It also doesn't hurt to hit a few winners :ThmbUp:

[pandy]

The rich aren't dumb enough to "lose lots of money on a regular basis". If they were...then they wouldn't be RICH.

This reminds me of a day at Belmont when I was 19 years old and hanging with a friend of mine. We were admiring a pretty, well-dressed, young lady in the paddock and he dared me to talk to her. I walked up to her and tried to start a conversation about the betting prospects in the race. She rebuffed me rather quickly with "I don't bet on horses. I own them."

[LemonSoupKid]

re: "the rich" one should remember that a) it's all relative and

b) accordingly, lots of money to them is another ballpark.

From what I gather on many of the sports betting forums I'm on, I wager a lot more than the average person posting. Now, I only bet big race days and given I'm a multi-race bettor who pretty much does it on his own, that likely puts me in a whole different category. But it is all relative, and I call myself a degenerate for it a lot (partially in jest). I say degenerate because I remember when $20 meant something betting wise. Depending on the scenario, the day and what I have in my pocket $100 may or may not. But I'm not pleased anymore unless I score in the thousands. That has as much to do with the type of wager I'm trying (satisfaction in beating the game) as it does the fact that I put up a lot to win a good multiple of that number, hopefully a great one WHEN it actually [finally] hits.

[VigorsTheGrey]

This reminds me of a day at Belmont when I was 19 years old and hanging with a friend of mine. We were admiring a pretty, well-dressed, young lady in the paddock and he dared me to talk to her. I walked up to her and tried to start a conversation about the betting prospects in the race. She rebuffed me rather quickly with "I don't bet on horses. I own them."
Funny...as if owning thoroughbreds was a more dignified way to lose thousands of $'s instead of "investing" in "expensive slips of paper"...:)

[pandy]

Funny...as if owning thoroughbreds was a more dignified way to lose thousands of $'s instead of "investing" in "expensive slips of paper"...:)

Good point...

for a young woman her age, she was quite a snob, LOL.

[dilanesp]

Funny...as if owning thoroughbreds was a more dignified way to lose thousands of $'s instead of "investing" in "expensive slips of paper"...:)

In the eyes of society they are.

Having said that, many moneybags owners are totally cool with bettors. I remember seeing the Kecks (Ferdinand's owners) standing at the fence in the Santa Anita paddock gardens yakking it up with a couple of unkempt railbirds 30 years ago about who they liked in the last race.

[bisket]

In the eyes of society they are.

Having said that, many moneybags owners are totally cool with bettors. I remember seeing the Kecks (Ferdinand's owners) standing at the fence in the Santa Anita paddock gardens yakking it up with a couple of unkempt railbirds 30 years ago about who they liked in the last race.

The best thing about the track is many of the social stigmas are put aside. It's funny how outside those gates we don't have much in common, but when it comes to talking horses and choosing winners we're all alike. :cool:

[Tom]

Funny...as if owning thoroughbreds was a more dignified way to lose thousands of $'s instead of "investing" in "expensive slips of paper"...:)

It is less, actually.
BETTORS do not have to pay to have the poop hauled off every day.
Stand proud, ye punters!:headbanger:

[onefast99]

[QUOTE=Tom;2240970]It is less, actually.
BETTORS do not have to pay to have the poop hauled off every day.
Stand proud, ye punters!:headbanger:[/QUOTE Some smart business man turns that into fertilizer and sells it nationwide at Home Depot, then goes out and buys a few horses with the profits!

[CincyHorseplayer]

It is less, actually.
BETTORS do not have to pay to have the poop hauled off every day.
Stand proud, ye punters!:headbanger:

Hallelujah! That's why they hate us!:D

[upthecreek]

http://www.drf.com/news/breeders-cup-board-again-set-discuss-splitting-event

[dilanesp]

http://www.drf.com/news/breeders-cup-board-again-set-discuss-splitting-event

They are nuts.

[Tom]

That's what happens when you let the line cooks into the board room.

Stupid Idea that will harm racing. Older horses hardly race at all anymore - this will kill a lot of races.

:rip: BC - committed suicide, 2018.

[oughtoh]

That would give me a reason to not watch or go to either of them. Horse racing just keeps coming up with these stupid ideas.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Would ruin the event entirely.

[Afleet]

another day w/massive pools sounds good to me

[dilanesp]

another day w/massive pools sounds good to me

More likely that it reduces handle significantly.

We just had the Oscars. Now imagine instead of the current format, they switch to a format where they give the acting Oscars out in a ceremony in late January and the rest of them, including Best Picture, in a ceremony in late February. Would that create more or less interest?

[elhelmete]

More likely that it reduces handle significantly.

We just had the Oscars. Now imagine instead of the current format, they switch to a format where they give the acting Oscars out in a ceremony in late January and the rest of them, including Best Picture, in a ceremony in late February. Would that create more or less interest?

Funny you say that because The EMmy Awards are split up...BUT really one is televised, and only insiders care about the other one(s).

Bad idea. I'm not travelling somewhere and dropping $$$$$ for ONE day of racing.

[Equifan]

IMHO just another, poorly disguised, plan to fleece the fan -- to
the immediate benefit of, in this latest scheme, Gulfstream et al.

[Tom]

Anyone thing the 3YO Filly Turf Sprint will carry the day for them?

[SandyW]

Good luck to them, this will give me an excuse not to watch or bet either of the days. Change is not always good and this for sure is not good for the betting public.

[cj]

This was tabled if you guys missed it.

[chiguy]

Glad this was tabled. They should go back to one day period. 11 BC races should do it on that one day. One of the best experiences I had was going to the BC at CD when Alysheba won. Must have been 88 or 89. Flew from San Diego to Chicago and drove down. Spend Friday going to the races at CD when there was a small crowd for just regular weekday racing. Allowed me to explore the place real good. BC Saturday was out of this world. Hung out around the quarter pole on the apron. Got wet, made money and saw what now looks like some of the greatest horses we have ever seen.

[cj]

Glad this was tabled. They should go back to one day period. 11 BC races should do it on that one day. One of the best experiences I had was going to the BC at CD when Alysheba won. Must have been 88 or 89. Flew from San Diego to Chicago and drove down. Spend Friday going to the races at CD when there was a small crowd for just regular weekday racing. Allowed me to explore the place real good. BC Saturday was out of this world. Hung out around the quarter pole on the apron. Got wet, made money and saw what now looks like some of the greatest horses we have ever seen.

I think the two days is fine. Most people are traveling to get to the location and having two days works well. You don't have to go to the first if you don't want to do so.

[Tom]

Two good days of full fields and big pools is a good enough trade off for a once "great day of racing." The dilution of the event is acceptable. Especially since it destroyed the fall championship season. Might as well get something out of the stupid thing.

[CincyHorseplayer]

I love the 2 days and pretty much as it is right now.

[Thomas Roulston]

I think Del Mar should host again, but not as part of a regular rotation. I don't remember if NYRA is out of the BC hosting business or not but I would love to see a regular rotation of CD, SA and Bel. Every fourth year you could do it at KEE, or Del Mar or even Saratoga, that would be something to see.


I would speculate that the Inner Dirt Track at Aqueduct was turned into a turf course in an effort to attract a future Breeders' Cup to Aqueduct - and as I have suggested before, Laurel should be added to the mix.

[dilanesp]

I would speculate that the Inner Dirt Track at Aqueduct was turned into a turf course in an effort to attract a future Breeders' Cup to Aqueduct - and as I have suggested before, Laurel should be added to the mix.

No way. They tore out the seata to build the casino. Place only holds 10,000 now.