****BREEDERS' CUP LIVE THREAD****

[TheGarMan]

Race 11

Based on connections & post position only..

I'll take small flyer on the :1:

After being cold all day, suddenly I am enfuego! :headbanger:

[PaceAdvantage]

After being cold all day, suddenly I am enfuego! :headbanger:You've been touched by the LDH! :cool:

[rogerbalz]

:1::ThmbUp:
Race 11

Based on connections & post position only..

I'll take small flyer on the :1:

[dilanesp]

:11: in the Classic. Using the :1: :5: and :9: underneath.

[iceknight]

Race 11

Based on connections & post position only..

I'll take small flyer on the :1: Nice one!!

[098poi]

You've been touched by the LDH! :cool:


I think so! :ThmbUp:

They say on TV if you don't play you can't win but the other truth is if you don't play you can't lose.

By not playing today I feel like a winner! :D

[clicknow]

Worst day in a long time for me, do I even chance betting on the Classic?

Yeah, why not, may as well finish the day.

Only 4 horses have won at the distance. West Coast, Arrogate, Mubtahiij, Collected.

Churchill looks like he has some stamina.

I think I'll play West Coast, Mubtaahij, Gunrunner and Churchill ex. box. :8::6::7::5:

[Tom]

By not playing today I feel like a winner!

By playing, I feel somehow....dirty.
Like I need a shower. And a beer. And confession. :rolleyes:
The Turf winner didn't even need lasix to win, usually a throw out.
Guess the American turf horses have really sunk to new lows. They must have had to run faster than :25 :50 today.

Go Arrogate. Gun Runner has no shot if he is the favorite. :headbanger:

[Robert Fischer]

arrogate = nice win

gun runner = slight loss

west coast = slight loss (man, he got pounded in the pick3...)

churchill = nice win

collected = break even

everyone else = ouch

[Track Collector]

My token bet on the feature race:

$3 Key Box :5: with :4::8::11:

Arrogate left off ticket.

[TheGarMan]

My token bet on the feature race:

$3 Key Box :5: with :4::8::11:

Arrogate left off ticket.

Great call...

If Mike doesn't think he is "right" with the surface he will shut him down at the top of the stretch, and send him off to the shed healthy..

I think its "all or nothing" for Arrogate tonight... ;)

[PaceAdvantage]

Well, at least I just got to watch Arrogate beat California Chrome again...:jump:

[frankcolt]

Going with Race 12, EXB 8,11

[098poi]

Close it out with a WIN on

:8:, :10:

[AltonKelsey]

This is my last chance at making any sort of money...

On :12::13::2:

Yes but you're still better off than the Billionaire Prince who was just arrested. Look on the bright side!

[GMB@BP]

Need the 8 for a contest win and the 5, 8-11 for the pick 4.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I thought I might play :9: Gunnevera at a big price, but he's not even 15-1 off the 30-1 M/L. Still want to root for him for some reason so might have to make a token bet either way for fun.

[Frost king]

I am sitting on the 6-8-11 for both the Pick 3 & 4.

[dilanesp]

I thought I might play :9: Gunnevera at a big price, but he's not even 15-1 off the 30-1 M/L. Still want to root for him for some reason so might have to make a token bet either way for fun.

The pace scenario could really favor him.

[dilanesp]

Well, at least I just got to watch Arrogate beat California Chrome again...:jump:

And you think *I* harbor petty hatreds of horses from other regions!

[buzzy]

Going with West Coast.. contender with mst value... good luck

[TheGarMan]

Hoping to stay hot with the Classic...

I love Gunrunner, but not today, and not at this distance...

Going in on my pick :11: Collected ...

AND taking small long shot flyers on :

:6: Mubtaahij (He looks so much better since landing with Baffert)

and

:9: Gunnevera (training really well)

Its someone elses money from earlier today, so we might as well HAVE FUN !

Good luck to all !

Gar

[PaceAdvantage]

The way Jerry Bailey just talked down Arrogate, I get the feeling Arrogate is going to destroy this field :lol:

[woodtoo]

I am sitting on the 6-8-11 for both the Pick 3 & 4.

Yes!!

[PaceAdvantage]

And you think *I* harbor petty hatreds of horses from other regions!Has nothing to do with regions...they're both from Cali...lol

I have a particular distaste for CC...

[bisket]

classic
50$ win :10:
straight ex. :10:/:1:
straight ex. :10:/:1:
boxed
5$ ex. :2::10:
5$ ex. :4::10:
10$ ex :10::11:
.50 tri :2::4::10::11:

[bisket]

classic
50$ win :10:
straight ex. :10:/:1:
straight ex. :10:/:1:
boxed
5$ ex. :2::10:
5$ ex. :4::10:
10$ ex :10::11:
.50 tri :2::4::10::11:

one of those straight ex is supposed to be gun runner in the place
and they're both 10$ bets
:10:/:5:

[depalma113]

Classic

Exacta :1::5: w/ :6::7::9::11:
Trifecta :1: w/ ALL w/ :5:
Trifecta :1: w/ :5: w/ ALL
Super: :1: w/ :5: w/ :6::7::9::11: w/ ALL

[depalma113]

The way Jerry Bailey just talked down Arrogate, I get the feeling Arrogate is going to destroy this field :lol:

From your lips to god's ears.

[RunForTheRoses]

Is the rail dead on the main track?

[Lemon Drop Husker]

:11:

Wifh a :1::7:

[bisket]

10 minutes to post and it appears Arrogate is slightly favored, but the odds are much more evenly distributed between the top 4

[dilanesp]

:11:

Wifh a :1::7:

Now I feel better about my bet.

[Tee]

At now 16/1 I'm (a little :D) willing to find out if Churchill is anywhere close to Sakhee & Giant's Causeway.

[woodtoo]

Eddie O picked Gun Runner :ThmbUp:

[098poi]

Cue the horns! My God.

[keithw84]

Cue the horns! My God.

WTF is that call to post music?!

[clicknow]

At now 16/1 I'm (a little :D) willing to find out if Churchill is anywhere close to Sakhee & Giant's Causeway.

I think he has some stamina (I did his triads).

in my previously posted 6,7,5,8 ex box, I will play around using different keys....so he will be on top of a few.

Mub offers a lot of value as well~

[Mulerider]

This is my last chance at making any sort of money...

On :12::13::2:

PA, you can join me playing Mountaineer tomorrow night...:pound:

[clicknow]

I dont think many horses who win the Travers win this?

[Tee]

West Coast looks the part of a serious contender!!

[dilanesp]

WTF is that call to post music?!

The call to the post is a racing tradition which is perfect.

So, of course racetrack executives have to mess with it on big race days.

[jocko699]

Alive in BC doubles to Arrogate and I have a $6 DD to the previous winner. 2-1 on Arrogate is a joke if you have no ticket alive. Two hands, Arrogate moves at the half mile and wins clear.

[barahona44]

:8: West Coast w/p

[098poi]

WTF is that call to post music?!


I was waiting for the horses to get spooked!

[jocko699]

:8: West Coast w/p

Underlay IMO at 4-1

[Tom]

Arrogate, for one.

[PaceAdvantage]

BC Classic:

:5: Gun Runner 9/5
:1: Arrogate 8/1
:11: Collected 16/1
:8: West Coast 18/1Looks like the :5: is the only decent bet

[keithw84]

The call to the post is a racing tradition which is perfect.

So, of course racetrack executives have to mess with it on big race days.

Will go back and listen after the race, but it sounded similar to Van Halen's I'll Wait

[frankcolt]

can we run this thing all ready?

[iceknight]

Would a new champ be anointed?
:10: Pavel - since prices are hard to come by on others :lol:

Supers with 1,5,10,11

[Tom]

Say goodnight, Gracie!

[clicknow]

GUN RUNNER deserved to win this. He's been the best "war horse" all year.

No value, but I'm thrilled.

[PaceAdvantage]

I can't believe Gun Runner was able to win that race...I thought he was done midway around the turn....was this field that bad?

[PaceAdvantage]

How bad is Arrogate now? What a sad, sad ending to this once stellar racehorse.

[dilanesp]

I can't believe Gun Runner was able to win that race...I thought he was done midway around the turn....was this field that bad?

No, he is that good. Collected made a big run at him, and he turned him back.

[Tom]

Field was decimated by the pace.
GR never let up and nothing had an ounce of fight in them.

Note to NYRA jockeys - you win with speed, end of story.
Grab this....

[Tom]

How bad is Arrogate now? What a sad, sad ending to this once stellar racehorse.

His demise started right after the Big A mocked Secretariat compared to him on HHRN. :pound:

[Secondbest]

Broke bad but Arrogate just didn't want to run. Gun Runner is a deserving champ.

[keithw84]

Field was decimated by the pace.
GR never let up and nothing had an ounce of fight in them.

Note to NYRA jockeys - you win with speed, end of story.
Grab this....

I thought Gun Runner would be cooked when I saw the early fractions. It was awesome to see him look Collected in the eye and take command in the stretch.

[bisket]

when I saw 22 and 3 and 46 and change I thought they would die at the end, but they just ran off with the rest of the field. That's going to be a great figure compared to the racing we've seen all day.

[Mulerider]

GUN RUNNER deserved to win this. He's been the best "war horse" all year.

No value, but I'm thrilled.

So am I. I'm just watching as a fan today, couldn't drive over to LaD to bet. But I've been a Gun Runner fan since he won the Louisiana Derby. Gritty little horse.

[dilanesp]

Arrogate is now officially the biggest flash in the pan in the history of American racing.

[Tom]

Not to start an argument, but.....:rolleyes:
....HOY.

Arrogate beat GR 2X, and won the two richest races in history this year. GR only beat Arrogate once.

No way GR deserves it.
Arrogate earned it.

Enjoy...!

G'night all!

[iceknight]

GUN RUNNER deserved to win this. He's been the best "war horse" all year.

No value, but I'm thrilled.He had a solid campaign leading up to this and won convincingly. Only if Arrogate had made one of this Dubai WC type moves could he have even come close to the winner.

Congrats Gun Runner!
Anyone know the final time, did they post it anywhere? Equibase takes a while.
Nver mind: 2:01.29 . Xpressbet tote shows it!

[clicknow]

I can't believe Gun Runner was able to win that race...I thought he was done midway around the turn....was this field that bad?

So you're not at all impressed with Gun Runner's campaign for the last 2 years?:confused: He's danced every dance and won a lot of big races, and 2nd in most of the other ones.

I think he's up to almost 6 million $$

[davew]

just watched the last race and happy I ended the day with + $49


also watching the BCBC leaderboard and it looks like the top 5 turned their $7500 live bankroll into -> $143K, $101K, $97K, $74K, and $70K


oops must have been after 10th, now

$176K, $143K, $97K, $87K, $85K

[iceknight]

Arrogate is now officially the biggest flash in the pan in the history of American racing. "Flash in the pan" ? you need to work on your English.

Travers, BCC and a superb Dubai WC, and a close 2nd in the Pacific. Sure he got hyped up quite a bit after the big wins..but come'on.

[dilanesp]

Not to start an argument, but.....:rolleyes:
....HOY.

Arrogate beat GR 2X, and won the two richest races in history this year. GR only beat Arrogate once.

No way GR deserves it.
Arrogate earned it.

Enjoy...!

G'night all!

Horse of the three months.

GR deserves it.

[dilanesp]

"Flash in the pan" ? you need to work on your English.

Travers, BCC and a superb Dubai WC, and a close 2nd in the Pacific. Sure he got hyped up quite a bit after the big wins..but come'on.

4 races. Only 4. Just OK before, mostly mediocre afterwards.

My English is totally correct. He was a big flash in the pan

[woodtoo]

Eddie O picked Gun Runner :ThmbUp:

Thanks Eddie I changed my bets.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Wow

So much fun yet again.

[iceknight]

4 races. Only 4. Just OK before, mostly mediocre afterwards.

My English is totally correct. He was a big flash in the pan A flash in the pan was Arazi. Arrogate delivered in BCC and Dubai. A broken clock is right twice? Anyhow, I was just being semantic no biggie. Arrogate's failure is a tough story for us followers of the sport just like Shared Belief was a heartbreaker....

[clicknow]

Arrogate is now officially the biggest flash in the pan in the history of American racing.

Precocious talent, couldn't keep it going for the long haul.


Winx is probably ahead of him now in World Thoroughbred ratings when they come out next. Dunno when that is......last update was Oct 1st---that was before she won her 3rd Cox Plate:

LONGINES World's Best Racehorse Rankings
Ranking Rating Horse
1 134 Arrogate (USA)
2 132 Winx (AUS)
3 128 Enable (GB)
4 127 Gun Runner (USA)

I think Arrogate will come down now after 3 losses in a row, 2 in which he didn't even hit the board. :(

Arrogate though, amazing talent, will be a big hit in the breeding shed.

[metro]

A flash in the pan was Arazi. Arrogate delivered in BCC and Dubai. A broken clock is right twice? Anyhow, I was just being semantic no biggie. Arrogate's failure is a tough story for us followers of the sport just like Shared Belief was a heartbreaker....

Post position didn't do Arrogate any favors either, on the overhead it looked like Smith tried to work him outside right after the poor break but never really got any comfortable postiion.

Crying shame on racing's biggest day that the industry has to deal with a rail as dead as one in the middle of winter at Mountaineer.

[pandy]

I liked the Cup at Del Mar, tiring track, made the races more exciting. Gun Runner had no problem going all the way on the lead while setting a pressured pace. Baffert I'm sure hated it, he likes the souped-up speed favoring tracks.

[TheGarMan]

Thanks guys! That was fun!

Love the "live thread" format !

(And as always thanks to PA for hosting it!)

Gar

[dilanesp]

Post position didn't do Arrogate any favors either, on the overhead it looked like Smith tried to work him outside right after the poor break but never really got any comfortable postiion.

Crying shame on racing's biggest day that the industry has to deal with a rail as dead as one in the middle of winter at Mountaineer.

Turning left at the start of the BCC is a Baffert tradition.

[olddaddy]

I think Brittney Eurton went O for the Breeders Cup and that was with a lot of chalk.

[PaceAdvantage]

So you're not at all impressed with Gun Runner's campaign for the last 2 years?:confused: He's danced every dance and won a lot of big races, and 2nd in most of the other ones.

I think he's up to almost 6 million $$I was merely speaking as an observer of this SINGLE ISOLATED race...the pace dynamics...and how the horses looked towards the end.

I still can't believe he won that race.

[PaceAdvantage]

The saddest thing of all is that a horse like Arrogate will never be Horse of the Year. At one point, regarded as one of the best...horses....ever....

Robbed in 2016 of HOTY...and doesn't deserve it this year...

[clicknow]

The saddest thing of all is that a horse like Arrogate will never be Horse of the Year. At one point, regarded as one of the best...horses....ever....

Robbed in 2016 of HOTY...and doesn't deserve it this year...

I understand your disappointment.

It really does show how difficult it is to keep these creatures in top form, over a long period of time. Racing, out of all the equestrian sports, is very taxing on a horse's system. Racehorses really are "champions".

[dilanesp]

The saddest thing of all is that a horse like Arrogate will never be Horse of the Year. At one point, regarded as one of the best...horses....ever....

Robbed in 2016 of HOTY...and doesn't deserve it this year...

I would have given it to him last year.

But your comment underscores how he was a flash in the pan. He doesn't win HOTY because he only had 2 big wins in any calendar year. He was brilliamt but fizzled out so quickly he never really built his resume.

[burnsy]

Gun Runner was in control gate to wire. Geroux was riding high, looked like a statue. Was similar to the Saratoga races.

Who was that guy jumping up and down? Was it Steve Asmussen or Rex Ryan's brother Rob?

[Fager Fan]

Precocious talent, couldn't keep it going for the long haul.


Winx is probably ahead of him now in World Thoroughbred ratings when they come out next. Dunno when that is......last update was Oct 1st---that was before she won her 3rd Cox Plate:

LONGINES World's Best Racehorse Rankings
Ranking Rating Horse
1 134 Arrogate (USA)
2 132 Winx (AUS)
3 128 Enable (GB)
4 127 Gun Runner (USA)

I think Arrogate will come down now after 3 losses in a row, 2 in which he didn't even hit the board. :(

Arrogate though, amazing talent, will be a big hit in the breeding shed.

No American owner or trainer cares who is ranked where in the Longines poll. It's apples to oranges for starters. Plus the only thing that matters is the reputation here.

He'll get a full book just like the rest of the top 10 or so new sires to the Ky roster, but he went from red hot to lukewarm, and his stud fee dropped by half over the last 3 races.

[Fager Fan]

I would have given it to him last year.

But your comment underscores how he was a flash in the pan. He doesn't win HOTY because he only had 2 big wins in any calendar year. He was brilliamt but fizzled out so quickly he never really built his resume.

Gun Runner was the highlight in a disappointing year. The older female award is going to a filly with just 3 starts for the year. That's bad.

[dilanesp]

Gun Runner was the highlight in a disappointing year. The older female award is going to a filly with just 3 starts for the year. That's bad.

Interesting to read your two posts back to back. Because Arrogate's career demonstrates the incentive to retire quickly and race ultra-lightly, doing just enough to establish the stud vslue and then stopping.

[Fager Fan]

A flash in the pan was Arazi. Arrogate delivered in BCC and Dubai. A broken clock is right twice? Anyhow, I was just being semantic no biggie. Arrogate's failure is a tough story for us followers of the sport just like Shared Belief was a heartbreaker....

Arazi wasn't a flash in the pan. He was undefeated in 4 starts I think before killing it here. Then he came out of the race with a chip, and wasn't the same after.

[clicknow]

He'll get a full book just like the rest of the top 10 or so new sires to the Ky roster, but he went from red hot to lukewarm, and his stud fee dropped by half over the last 3 races.

As I read thru these posts, it seems a lot of the blame on Arrogate, and none on the trainer.

I am not sure talent like his just "goes away". Something that needs to happen isn't happening, I mean, it's possible, right? Seems like a horse of this stature/talent can be brought along for at least 5 years .....AFAIK, he isn't injured, right?

I think dilanesp may be on to something....

[Fager Fan]

As I read thru these posts, it seems a lot of the blame on Arrogate, and none on the trainer.

I am not sure talent like his just "goes away". Something that needs to happen isn't happening, I mean, it's possible, right? Seems like a horse of this stature/talent can be brought along for at least 5 years .....AFAIK, he isn't injured, right?

I think dilanesp may be on to something....

I've said since his first loss that I think something's physically wrong with him. It's up to the trainer and owner to make sure it's not. And for God's sake, if you really think he hates the track, then you don't send him out for his last 3 races over it. The horse's rep gets knocked, but it doesn't mean the trainer (particularly) isn't possibly partly or wholly responsible.

[burnsy]

I don't understand the complaining about Arrogate. It was obvious he was in deep here off his prior two races. He couldn't be tossed IMO but the result is not much of a surprise. It was also obvious that the top finishers were in top form. Anyone that followed Gun Runner could see he's never been better.

They are not machines, they are not even human athletes, they can't tell you what's wrong. All you can go by is their most recent efforts and Arrogate has been underperforming for months now. This was not the shocker people are trying to make out of it. Simply put, it is, what it is.

[GMB@BP]

I don't understand the complaining about Arrogate. It was obvious he was in deep here off his prior two races. He couldn't be tossed IMO but the result is not much of a surprise. It was also obvious that the top finishers were in top form. Anyone that followed Gun Runner could see he's never been better.

They are not machines, they are not even human athletes, they can't tell you what's wrong. All you can go by is their most recent efforts and Arrogate has been underperforming for months now. This was not the shocker people are trying to make out of it. Simply put, it is, what it is.

its a product of the current game, these very protected campaigns that prop up records and stack wins has jaded us that when horses lose it means a little more.

These are not machines, sometimes they go wrong, in Arrogates case some say it means he was a flash in the pan, a never was so to speak.

[thaskalos]

His 2016 Travers race came out of no-where...and his "greatness" vanished as quickly as it had appeared. Arrogate's case is a head-scratcher of the type that we don't often see.

[Mulerider]

His 2016 Travers race came out of no-where...and his "greatness" vanished as quickly as it had appeared. Arrogate's case is a head-scratcher of the type that we don't often see.

I see two possibilities: either there is an underlying physical issue that has eluded what I presume are the best veterinary diagnosticians available, or Arrogate simply doesn't want to do this any more.

Clearly Dubai was stressful for Arrogate as evidenced by his post-trip weight loss. I know very little about race training, but I do own horses, and being cooped up in a stall, as he reportedly was for four months, is not conducive to a happy equine, especially those of the warmblood variety. Maybe things would have turned out differently if he'd been turned out to a nice, quiet pasture for a couple of months, to just be a horse for a little while after those four grueling races. Who knows. I'm just speculating.

[lamboguy]

in horse racing, you are only as good as your last race. as stated before ARROGATE won on a phony race track in Dubai. had he have been on the pace like GUNRUNNER was you would not have found that horse with a search warrant that day. instead, he broke bad and dead last, stayed away from the pace and swooped the field on a wide track. this happens all the time at The Mountain.

what we saw yesterday with GUNRUNNER was a truly great horse. he took every punch a horse could take and put every challenge to rest.

[pandy]

I didn't see how anyone could bet Arrogate yesterday after he ran so much slower over the same track in his last two starts.

[pandy]

I see two possibilities: either there is an underlying physical issue that has eluded what I presume are the best veterinary diagnosticians available, or Arrogate simply doesn't want to do this any more.

Clearly Dubai was stressful for Arrogate as evidenced by his post-trip weight loss. I know very little about race training, but I do own horses, and being cooped up in a stall, as he reportedly was for four months, is not conducive to a happy equine, especially those of the warmblood variety. Maybe things would have turned out differently if he'd been turned out to a nice, quiet pasture for a couple of months, to just be a horse for a little while after those four grueling races. Who knows. I'm just speculating.

All of that is possible. A racehorse can be completely sound and physically in peak condition and still not perform up to its top ability if the horse has soured on racing or is simply not mentally competitive.

There was a great trotter named Mack Lobell who was shipped to Europe to compete in their prestigious races. He was put in quarantine, which he despised. When they brought him out to train he refused to move. He literally stood still outside of his stall and refused. Eventually he got over it and has tremendous success racing in Europe.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Not gonna lie.

That was a hella fun weekend.:headbanger:

[bisket]

Anyone ready to anoint Gun Runner world’s best has to take into consideration Collected ran step for step with him. I’m wondering if the tractors circled the track a few times during the turf race. If not they both freaked.

[Tom]

Horse of the three months.

GR deserves it.

Horse of 6 months.
AFTER Arrogate humiliated him and went on vacation.
GR is a worthy second place finisher. But He did NOT win the two biggest races.

[Tom]

..and his "greatness" vanished as quickly as it had appeared.

Vanished almost as fast as GUN RUNNER did the Dubai stretch, when Arrogate "mooned" him. :lol:

[dilanesp]

Anyone ready to anoint Gun Runner world’s best has to take into consideration Collected ran step for step with him. I’m wondering if the tractors circled the track a few times during the turf race. If not they both freaked.

Collected is damned good. His last several races have all been extremely good. This isn't Macho Again or something.

[Fager Fan]

Horse of 6 months.
AFTER Arrogate humiliated him and went on vacation.
GR is a worthy second place finisher. But He did NOT win the two biggest races.

So what if he won the two with the biggest purse? Which had the better field? DWC, Pegasus, or BCC? I think all would agree that it was the BCC.

Gun Runner ran in 6 races this year, winning 5 and finishing 2nd in the 6th. He won 4 G1s, 1 G3, and finished 2nd in a G1.

Arrogate ran in 5 races this year, winning 2 and finishing 2nd, 4th, and 5th in the other three. He won 2 G1s, finished 2nd in another G1, and finished off the board in the other two.

Looking at their bodies of work, I can't see how anyone could come to the conclusion that Arrogate's 2 wins trumps Gun Runner's 5, and if you take into account the rest of their race finishes, Gun Runner pulls even further ahead.

[Tom]

Agree, the Dubai race was a weak field.
Arrogate ran by the leader in stretch so fast, they thought the horse broke down. :rolleyes:

[dilanesp]

So what if he won the two with the biggest purse? Which had the better field? DWC, Pegasus, or BCC? I think all would agree that it was the BCC.

Gun Runner ran in 6 races this year, winning 5 and finishing 2nd in the 6th. He won 4 G1s, 1 G3, and finished 2nd in a G1.

Arrogate ran in 5 races this year, winning 2 and finishing 2nd, 4th, and 5th in the other three. He won 2 G1s, finished 2nd in another G1, and finished off the board in the other two.

Looking at their bodies of work, I can't see how anyone could come to the conclusion that Arrogate's 2 wins trumps Gun Runner's 5, and if you take into account the rest of their race finishes, Gun Runner pulls even further ahead.

Yep.

[thaskalos]

Vanished almost as fast as GUN RUNNER did the Dubai stretch, when Arrogate "mooned" him. :lol:

Arrogate won the battle...but Gun Runner won the war.

[Tom]

No one is going to be talking about GR in the same terms as Arrogate.

It really doesn't matter - the eclipse awards a total joke anyways. They mean nothing the horseplayers, and are just more of the BS the hoity toity do for themselves. Has nothing to do with betting horses.

Just fun to argue.
They can take those awards and stick them all where the bute don't go.

[mostpost]

The saddest thing of all is that a horse like Arrogate will never be Horse of the Year. At one point, regarded as one of the best...horses....ever....

Robbed in 2016 of HOTY...and doesn't deserve it this year...
Oh Boy, Here we go again. Arrogate was robbed of Horse of the Year in 2016.
No, he wasn't.

California Chrome won seven out of eight races that year. He won three out of four Grade 1 races, all of them unrestricted.

Arrogate only ran in two stakes races in 2016. Bot of which were Grade 1 races and both of which he won. However, one of those Grade 1 races was restricted to 3 year olds; in a year when the three year old crop was not particularly strong over all.

Arrogate did beat California Chrome in the Breeders Cup Classic by half a length, but Horse Of The Year is not based on one race unless the candidates are evenly matched going into that race. Prior to the BCC California Chrome had won five unrestricted Grade One and Grade Two stakes in 2016. Arrogate had won one. Even if you include the Travers Stakes, the margin was still 5-2.

It's not like the voting was close. CC received 202 first place votes. Arrogate had only 40. Again, a 5-1 margin.

Arrogate had a brilliant four or five race streak. Other than that he was pretty ordinary.

[olddaddy]

This Arrogate stuff made no sense. Run its last 3 races at a track that supposedly he doesnt like. If that was the case why would you keep running him there knowing his value decreases each time? If you know hes done you retire him, if it was the track you dont run him there and you run him elsewhere to prove it actually was the track. I dont get how and why it was handled how it was.

[Fager Fan]

Oh Boy, Here we go again. Arrogate was robbed of Horse of the Year in 2016.
No, he wasn't.

California Chrome won seven out of eight races that year. He won three out of four Grade 1 races, all of them unrestricted.

Arrogate only ran in two stakes races in 2016. Bot of which were Grade 1 races and both of which he won. However, one of those Grade 1 races was restricted to 3 year olds; in a year when the three year old crop was not particularly strong over all.

Arrogate did beat California Chrome in the Breeders Cup Classic by half a length, but Horse Of The Year is not based on one race unless the candidates are evenly matched going into that race. Prior to the BCC California Chrome had won five unrestricted Grade One and Grade Two stakes in 2016. Arrogate had won one. Even if you include the Travers Stakes, the margin was still 5-2.

It's not like the voting was close. CC received 202 first place votes. Arrogate had only 40. Again, a 5-1 margin.

Arrogate had a brilliant four or five race streak. Other than that he was pretty ordinary.

This is why greatness isnt determined by just four or five races. We ultimately rightfully conclude that it was just a short brilliant streak. We'll never know why he was so brilliant but for such a short time. That is not normal and there is an explanation somewhere. Like it or not, his trainer is one that we know will mess around with concocting brews, as evidenced by giving horses thyroid medicine and having seven drop dead and in a short period of time.

[Fager Fan]

This Arrogate stuff made no sense. Run its last 3 races at a track that supposedly he doesnt like. If that was the case why would you keep running him there knowing his value decreases each time? If you know hes done you retire him, if it was the track you dont run him there and you run him elsewhere to prove it actually was the track. I dont get how and why it was handled how it was.

Agreed. If Baffert really thought it was the track, then it made sense to instead of going to the Breeders' Cup, go east for the Woodward and/or Jockey Club Gold cup, win big again and retire

[dilanesp]

Agreed. If Baffert really thought it was the track, then it made sense to instead of going to the Breeders' Cup, go east for the Woodward and/or Jockey Club Gold cup, win big again and retire

The Pegasus would have made even more sense.

But he isn't the same horse.