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LemonSoupKid
11-02-2017, 10:48 AM
Does it have to do with entertainment, insight, or results?

Best of luck at Breeder's Cup 2017 this weekend, gentlemen.

thaskalos
11-02-2017, 11:41 AM
I can't pick just one...but I'd love to share a table and talk horses with Cj, PA-Mike, Tom, Dahoss and ReplayRandall. Of course...I would have to sit between Tom and Dahoss, so I could separate them to avoid any unpleasantries. :)

MONEY
11-02-2017, 03:42 PM
The only handicappers picks that I look at, are right here on PaceAdvantage.

I like everybody win or lose that takes the time to post results for their picks.
When I have time I compare the picks and results with mine.

As for the members that don't post results, I don't waste a click on them.

ultracapper
11-02-2017, 03:45 PM
Me

Tom
11-02-2017, 04:20 PM
I would have to sit between Tom and Dahoss, so I could separate them to avoid any unpleasantries.

Gee Gus, what could go wrong?

Robert Fischer
11-02-2017, 05:16 PM
public = I have to go with Serling. Does the work consistently. Knows the game.
Beyer is still great, even in a less active role. Legend who isn't afraid to toss a favorite in a big race.

board = Mike (PA) is the boss. CJ is a pro. I like theory from Magister Ludi.
Most active members here are great to talk racing with.

proximity
11-02-2017, 05:43 PM
ronsmac is knowledgeable, focused, and diligent. just an excellent horseplayer. i text him every week and also run an occasional horse by tonyk@hsh a local expert who has the brains and experience to profitably apply inside knowledge.

read paceadvantage almost everyday though and don't have anyone on ignore. :)

Redboard
11-02-2017, 08:15 PM
Mike Watchmaker.

CincyHorseplayer
11-02-2017, 08:24 PM
I pretty much like talking about races with anybody on here. Some of those I despise at first end up having the biggest influence on me! Funny how that works!:cool:

Afleet
11-02-2017, 10:57 PM
Me

you

Afleet
11-02-2017, 10:58 PM
Mike Watchmaker.

thanks for the laugh

I appreciates Mikes effort though

ultracapper
11-03-2017, 01:17 AM
you

Thanks for the laugh.

I do try though.

Afleet
11-03-2017, 12:44 PM
Thanks for the laugh.

I do try though.

Good luck to you. I'm having a lot of problems w/the card this year-maybe information overload! I like Champagne room and no one else does. Hopefully me and the jockey are the only ones betting her!

timtam
11-05-2017, 01:39 AM
Kurt Hoover for the Ca circuit

dansan
11-05-2017, 09:11 AM
David Schwartz

Bennie
11-05-2017, 10:20 AM
Maggie Wolfendale when she is done in the paddock area and gives her commentary on the physical and mental appearances on the horses.

Inner Dirt
11-05-2017, 11:31 AM
Mine was always Andrew Beyer. I thought I finally had come of age as a handicapper when I was watching Andrew Beyer and Jeff Siegel handicap one of the first Breeder's Cups it was either 1986 or 87. My top pick in every race was the same as Andy's and I agreed with pretty much everything he said when ripping into Jeff's picks. Siegel ended up doing pretty good I think Beyer and I ended up with one short priced winner.

horseplayer
11-05-2017, 11:41 PM
I can't pick just one...but I'd love to share a table and talk horses with Cj, PA-Mike, Tom, Dahoss and ReplayRandall. Of course...I would have to sit between Tom and Dahoss, so I could separate them to avoid any unpleasantries. :)

Meeting with remarkable handicappers eh?

Zaf
11-06-2017, 12:24 AM
Me

Correct answer :headbanger:

Z

fiveouttasix
11-06-2017, 08:31 AM
I look at 3 after handicapping NYRA...Serling, Aragona and Brooklyn Cowboy (I will usually pick up something I missed)

AstrosFan
11-06-2017, 10:08 PM
Maggie Wolfendale when she is done in the paddock area and gives her commentary on the physical and mental appearances on the horses.

She is overrated and how she kept a job and Blewitt didn’t is b/s

Aerocraft67
11-08-2017, 01:42 PM
Mike Beer. I could watch that guy talk about races all day, and his prose reflects that, too. All that and he calls out his share of prices.

There's maybe one one guy on the DRF video team I could do without (the dude that looks like he's Skyping in from his bedroom at his parents' house—and that's largely why); they're all good. Dan Illman anchors them well and Matt Bernier injects some youth into the team. In terms of raw picks, though, Kenny Peck's are the ones that get my attention.

I enjoyed Serling and Gaudet at Saratoga this year, although I'm biased because Laurel is my home track, and I always consider Gaudet's analysis there. I was impressed how she upped her game to Talking Horses, not that it was all that new to her. I appreciate Wolfendale's physical handicapping an awful lot but don't know that it's done me much good at the windows.

I wasn't impressed with the rest of the on-air talent at Saratoga beyond Talking Horses, but those guys are broadcasters more than handicappers. Similarly, I could do without most of the NBC crew. Pincay is good, and the two guys at the desk with him aren't bad. Olczyk is O.K., I used to watch a lot of hockey.

I use TFUS PPs, and find Aragona to be a sharp analyst, both in prose and on camera. And of course I like to hear Milkowski's take on a race using his TFUS figs.

LemonSoupKid
11-08-2017, 01:57 PM
^ Funny you mention him. I had him in mind (for myself) when I made the thread. I currently find him to be the best handicapper I have come across, especially for someone who puts himself out there literally all the time. I also have a similar style, but it's his job so he just flat out watches and knows more than I do regarding races and tracks around the US and globe. He got smoked at the BC this year but I had Forever Unbridled and so did he; I didn't follow him on the Classic pick of Gun Runner so he did OK in that he picked the most prestigious races of each day. I love Ilman as a host but if anything I would use his picks as tosses, not even trying to be funny about that, very serious.

If you look at other handicapping threads where I've made fun of people, you'll see Watchmaker and Kinchen (that's who you are referring to JK's corner) are super chalky and super duper basic on multirace wagers. Kinchen is superior, no doubt, but when dealing with Watchmaker that's like saying you're just a taller midget.

jahura2
11-08-2017, 02:23 PM
:Does it have to do with entertainment, insight, or results?

Best of luck at Breeder's Cup 2017 this weekend, gentlemen.


Aragona, Beer,Gabby and Caton Bredar

Denny
11-08-2017, 04:30 PM
Mine is John Pricci of HorseRaceInsider.com

Has a positive ROI on nearly 10 years of posted Feature Race Analysis win bets.

Buckeye
11-11-2017, 04:26 PM
I would have to "sit'" between me myself and I.

Buckeye
11-11-2017, 04:31 PM
Don't believe me? Look at the crap posted by Mike Pizzola on the Breeders Cup.
He got close on one race (by mistake?) but hear me out, your opinion counts and you better have one.

olddaddy
11-11-2017, 08:34 PM
A person who knows, is liked and is able to talk to the owners, trainers, jockeys and backstretch people of the circuit I am playing. I havent met that person yet.

hogoffate
11-11-2017, 08:55 PM
I like few of them. I like to listen to Andy Serling on who he doesn't like and why as he factors in probable odds. I like Dave Litfin because of his logical analysis and trainer pattern history. Mike Beer and David Aragona are very good also.

As for Oaklawn Park, I like to read Rick Lee's analysis as he knows the trainers in the region and their patterns.

Afleet
11-11-2017, 11:50 PM
I like few of them. I like to listen to Andy Serling on who he doesn't like and why as he factors in probable odds. I like Dave Litfin because of his logical analysis and trainer pattern history. Mike Beer and David Aragona are very good also.

As for Oaklawn Park, I like to read Rick Lee's analysis as he knows the trainers in the region and their patterns.

Where do you get Rick Lee's analysis? thanks

lamboguy
11-12-2017, 11:51 AM
i am surprised that there hasn't been a mention of Mark "the Mountainman" Paterson. the man absolutely knows his stuff around West Virginia and Ohio racing. he does not rely on pace or sheet numbers completely in his analysis. he understands when real good numbers on a horse don't mean that much sometimes. his show is a nuts and bolts show without a high cost production, but there is plenty to be gained by listening to him even if you don't agree with his picks. lately, he has been hot as a firecracker and is probably due to cool down!

LemonSoupKid
11-13-2017, 08:19 PM
Don't believe me? Look at the crap posted by Mike Pizzola on the Breeders Cup.
He got close on one race (by mistake?) but hear me out, your opinion counts and you better have one.

Is this another guy that people look to in order to "toss" horses? :popcorn:

hogoffate
11-13-2017, 09:31 PM
Where do you get Rick Lee's analysis? thanks

If at Lone Star Park, they put out a page of his picks. But during the Oaklawn meet, his picks/analysis are in the Arkansas Democrat Gazette.

Afleet
11-13-2017, 11:23 PM
If at Lone Star Park, they put out a page of his picks. But during the Oaklawn meet, his picks/analysis are in the Arkansas Democrat Gazette.

I will have to buy a paper when I head down to Oaklawn in January-weather permitting. thanks again

dnlgfnk
11-14-2017, 12:50 AM
The public.

marksinger
11-14-2017, 06:45 AM
Chris Larney!!

Buckeye
11-14-2017, 07:02 PM
Totally agree. It's called insurance.

mikekk
11-14-2017, 09:34 PM
He did love Ascend in this year's Woodford Reserve on Belmont Stakes Day. The $57.00 win payoff got me a $1900 Pick3, so I'm a bit forgiving. Glad I didn't throw him out!

Mike

mikekk
11-14-2017, 09:35 PM
The post above refers to the Michael Pizzola part of this thread!

Mike

kingfin66
11-14-2017, 09:57 PM
Chris Larney!!

I believe that his name is actually Chris Larmey. I agree, good handicapper. Washington guy.

pat
11-18-2017, 09:49 AM
By far Kevin Cox (Brooklyn Cowboy)

Afleet
11-18-2017, 12:16 PM
The public.

I always toss the publics choice

dnlgfnk
11-19-2017, 06:58 PM
I always toss the publics choice

That's why they're my favorite.

ElKabong
11-26-2017, 03:06 AM
Dave Litfins book (expert handicapping)was the biggest handicapping influence on me, the chapters regarding turf racing for younger horses & record keeping were eye openers for me

In the end, once you have your shit together, if you're competent & betting serious cash, listen to no one else.

LemonSoupKid
01-01-2021, 11:47 AM
One of my favorites (I think I stated this earlier), Mike Beer, has been cold for a few years, at least whenever I look. Just wondering if anyone knows roughly

How old are Ilman and Beer? They've been doing this a long time, but something tells me that if you have been successful enough to stick around as long as they have, you probably started in your early 20s or did work for others at 18+.

For that matter, how does one become a "DRF handicapper"? I think these less commonly asked questions have a cool back story, usually.

classhandicapper
01-02-2021, 06:01 PM
I like Brad Thomas because he's some kind of Yoda that sees things on the track I don't see and comes up with live horses I can't find.

Another very underrated handicapper is Chuck Kuehhas at DRF, but I'm a little partial because we've been friends for decades.

lefty359
01-02-2021, 07:16 PM
Don't have one now, but Prof Gordon Jones was excellent.

Nitro
01-02-2021, 08:36 PM
The Public.
I always toss the Public's choice

The sooner you get the erroneous concept and term of “The PUBLIC” (money) out of your handicapping mentality and vocabulary, the quicker you’ll realize that the betting population is made up of more than just the outsiders.

The game is not about boosting your ego with occasional handicapping triumphs.
It’s all about making money! (Consistently)
So, if that’s ultimate goal of the “Insiders”, I’ll take their lead and follow their intentions every time I play. As far as I’m concerned "Money is the Name of the Game".

Take my word for it: Understanding the significance of its flow during a typical betting cycle is the key to making it all worthwhile.
Here’s one recent example: http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=162416
.

lamboguy
01-02-2021, 08:41 PM
Jonathon Kinchen, the only thing better than his handicapping are his flowered shirts.. i love those shirts!

PIC6SIX
01-04-2021, 12:19 AM
GORDON JONES, GORDON JONES, GORDON JONES. He is one of a kind and a very nice guy, very cordial. Just do not know if he is still active.:cool:

Zaf
01-04-2021, 12:48 AM
Me :lol: and the tie for 2nd goes to Andy Serling & Mark Patterson.

Happy 2021

Z

metro
01-04-2021, 11:45 AM
For that matter, how does one become a "DRF handicapper"? I think these less commonly asked questions have a cool back story, usually.

I interviewed with DRF about 20 years ago for an opening they had as a handicapper. My girlfriend at the time saw an ad for the position in the local paper but was reluctant to tell me about it since she felt I was already spending too much time with horse racing, lol.

Interview was at their office in Lexington, KY with a guy who is no longer there. They had me handicap and write up a couple of races that were two days out for a midwest track, Arlington maybe. They liked the handicapping just not the way it was broken down and worded. This is when they had an analysis of every horse in a race for some tracks.

The hours were to be something like 11-7 (iirc) or right when I would be wanting to play that days races instead of handicapping a future card so I wasn't terribly upset to not get offered the position. The pay they quoted was okay but nothing great.

lefty359
01-04-2021, 02:59 PM
GORDON JONES, GORDON JONES, GORDON JONES. He is one of a kind and a very nice guy, very cordial. Just do not know if he is still active.:cool:


I don't either. I haven't spoken to Gordon in yrs. One of the nicest guys I ever met.
I hope he's still around. I still have his books.

BarchCapper
01-04-2021, 04:37 PM
Favorite handicapper (as teacher): Mark Cramer - who sadly seems no longer active, at least in US. My ROI moved from negative to positive when I first read his material.

Favorite current handicapper giving selections regularly: Chris Larmey on the Sport of Kings podcast

Favorite "in house" handicapper: Brad Thomas of Monmouth, but also have to throw some love to Vic Stauffer at my now home track of Oaklawn.

Favorite handicapper for feeling like I'm back in NY with track friends and not getting to have a "lazy" opinion on a horse/race without being properly challenged on it: Andy Serling

dnlgfnk
01-12-2021, 01:22 AM
The sooner you get the erroneous concept and term of “The PUBLIC” (money) out of your handicapping mentality and vocabulary, the quicker you’ll realize that the betting population is made up of more than just the outsiders.

The game is not about boosting your ego with occasional handicapping triumphs.
It’s all about making money! (Consistently)
So, if that’s ultimate goal of the “Insiders”, I’ll take their lead and follow their intentions every time I play. As far as I’m concerned "Money is the Name of the Game".

Take my word for it: Understanding the significance of its flow during a typical betting cycle is the key to making it all worthwhile.
Here’s one recent example: http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=162416
.

I couldn't play your way. Wouldn't enjoy it You couldn't play mine.

I create my own odds line/pct. based upon previous trips. Emulating Benter however primitively, I use the public odds as a separate factor, incorporating all the data crunching of the best handicapper race in, race out to merge with my own, waiting as long as possible to fashion my "true odds".

Playing in a casual manner since last August with a small betting unit, I'm showing a 17% profit after roughly 365 wagers. I could screen shot if necessary, and if instructed how. I plan to ramp up this spring, for better or worse.

thaskalos
01-12-2021, 04:30 AM
I couldn't play your way. Wouldn't enjoy it You couldn't play mine.

I create my own odds line/pct. based upon previous trips. Emulating Benter however primitively, I use the public odds as a separate factor, incorporating all the data crunching of the best handicapper race in, race out to merge with my own, waiting as long as possible to fashion my "true odds".

Playing in a casual manner since last August with a small betting unit, I'm showing a 17% profit after roughly 365 wagers. I could screen shot if necessary, and if instructed how. I plan to ramp up this spring, for better or worse.

Fascinating! May I ask how often a playable race comes about? How many race cards did it take to come up with the 365 plays?

Nitro
01-12-2021, 02:20 PM
I couldn't play your way. Wouldn't enjoy it You couldn't play mine.

I create my own odds line/pct. based upon previous trips. Emulating Benter however primitively, I use the public odds as a separate factor, incorporating all the data crunching of the best handicapper race in, race out to merge with my own, waiting as long as possible to fashion my "true odds".

Playing in a casual manner since last August with a small betting unit, I'm showing a 17% profit after roughly 365 wagers. I could screen shot if necessary, and if instructed how. I plan to ramp up this spring, for better or worse.
Well, to each his own.
I enjoy my method of play because I came to the realization that this game is not about the horses. Its about those who control every aspect of a horse’s racing career and their personal financial goals. All the data crunching, statistical analysis and subjective interpretations of a horse's information pales by comparison to the objective realities of the monies being wagered on those horses at any given time.

How do I know this? Because I did play your way for 30 odd years with some respectable success. But not enough success to justify the long hours and sweat equity I would pour into this game. I now simply review all aspects of the market through a highly sophisticated tote analysis during any typical betting cycle that may interest me. It takes all of about 10 to 12 minutes of my time to determine if there’s a viable and lucrative play or not.

Since you mentioned Bill Benter (a player I highly respect) I suggest that you consider some of his thoughts:
Excerpts from:
“Computer Based Horse Race Handicapping and Wagering Systems:”
A Report by William Benter

The complexity of predicting horse performance makes the specification of an elegant handicapping model quite difficult. Ideally, each independent variable would capture a unique aspect of the influences effecting horse performance. In the author's experience, the trial and error method of adding independent variables to increase the model's goodness-of-fit, results in the model tending to become a hodgepodge of highly correlated variables whose individual significance's are difficult to determine and often counter-intuitive.

Additionally, there will always be a significant amount of 'inside information' in horse racing that cannot be readily included in a statistical model. Trainer's and jockey's intentions, secret workouts, whether the horse ate its breakfast, and the like, will be available to certain parties who will no doubt take advantage of it. Their betting will be reflected in the odds. This presents an obstacle to the model developer with access to published information only. For a statistical model to compete in this environment, it must make full use of the advantages of computer modeling, namely, the ability to make complex calculations on large data sets.

The odds set by the public betting yield a sophisticated estimate of the horses' win probabilities.

It can be presumed that valid fundamental information exists which can not be systematically or practically incorporated into a statistical model. Therefore, any statistical model, however well developed, will always be incomplete. An extremely important step in model development, and one that the author believes has been generally overlooked in the literature, is the estimation of the relation of the model's probability estimates to the public's estimates, and the adjustment of the model's estimates to incorporate whatever information can be gleaned from the public's estimates. The public's implied probability estimates generally correspond well with the actual frequencies of winning.

dnlgfnk
01-12-2021, 10:28 PM
Fascinating! May I ask how often a playable race comes about? How many race cards did it take to come up with the 365 plays?

I first learned of the possible legality of ADW in Missouri last July, and have proceeded carefully, giving myself the rest of the year to tinker with and tweak my approach while testing my self-control.

There may be a race or two a day where I hate the chances of a low odds horse, ideally two. Beat a favorite and one can redistribute roughly 35 pct. of winning chances to significant others. From there I can work with exotics (exactas for now). Steven Crist covered the inefficiencies present when one combines more than one opinion on a race. Beat two low odds horses and redistribute perhaps 50 % of winning chances, with a definite edge.

I probably spread about 3 horses deep in an exacta on average. Sometimes cold, sometimes 4 others around a key overlay horse, sometimes the fave under a valued longshot, etc., weighting the bets not always to produce equal return, but frequently playing a least favored combination only enough to break even while emphasizing the others. So that 365 likely represents about 75-100 races.

My best score during this period was the July 17th 2nd race exacta at Toga. In his debut, Kabob had been 3 wide advancing significantly better than any horse in the field while three wide on the turn, and continued to 7 widest entering the stretch while holding his ground with the rest of the field until very late. On the 17th I remember figuring him to save ground in a weak race behind a contested pace- a classic potential reversal of trips.

dnlgfnk
01-12-2021, 10:44 PM
Well, to each his own.
I enjoy my method of play because I came to the realization that this game is not about the horses. Its about those who control every aspect of a horse’s racing career and their personal financial goals. All the data crunching, statistical analysis and subjective interpretations of a horse's information pales by comparison to the objective realities of the monies being wagered on those horses at any given time.

How do I know this? Because I did play your way for 30 odd years with some respectable success. But not enough success to justify the long hours and sweat equity I would pour into this game. I now simply review all aspects of the market through a highly sophisticated tote analysis during any typical betting cycle that may interest me. It takes all of about 10 to 12 minutes of my time to determine if there’s a viable and lucrative play or not.

Since you mentioned Bill Benter (a player I highly respect) I suggest that you consider some of his thoughts:

Thanks, Nitro.
What I got from Benter was the final nail in the coffin of specialization, at least for myself. I still specialize, but my wild swings (upgrading a perceived difficult trip(s) is often preferring a horse who looks bad on paper) would be far more prevalent and unprofitable without incorporating the comprehensive input of public odds.

Additional confirmation for me was when, some years ago Dave Schwartz posted a database from all races run in a year from the early 2000's. The incredible skill of the public in sorting out 5/2 vs. 3-1, 7/2 vs. 4-1, etc. correlated directly to their win pcts.

classhandicapper
01-13-2021, 09:42 AM
but my wild swings (upgrading a perceived difficult trip(s) is often preferring a horse who looks bad on paper) would be far more prevalent and unprofitable without incorporating the comprehensive input of public odds.

This is a question.

Let's assume you have a horse you believe had a terrible but somewhat hidden trip last out and he figures to get a great trip this time. Depending on the field he draws into, his odds today will vary.

If he draws into a tough spot he might be 15-1 or 20-1 and if he draws into an easy spot he might be 7/2.

To me, either way, if I am right about the trips there's probably value on him in both spots even if the public odds are telling me his probability of winning is different in those two fields. The only difference to me is that if he's 7/2 I'd be more apt to use him on top heavier and if he was 15-1 or 20-1 because of the tough field and might not win anyway, I'd use him a little less on top and use him 2nd and 3rd with some other horses trying to get that value on my ticket.

The probability of winning may change the way I structure the bet but it won't change the fact that I'm interested in that horse. So what I do really need the public odds for other than confirming what I already know, that one field was tougher than the other?

dnlgfnk
01-13-2021, 09:36 PM
This is a question.

Let's assume you have a horse you believe had a terrible but somewhat hidden trip last out and he figures to get a great trip this time. Depending on the field he draws into, his odds today will vary.

If he draws into a tough spot he might be 15-1 or 20-1 and if he draws into an easy spot he might be 7/2.

To me, either way, if I am right about the trips there's probably value on him in both spots even if the public odds are telling me his probability of winning is different in those two fields. The only difference to me is that if he's 7/2 I'd be more apt to use him on top heavier and if he was 15-1 or 20-1 because of the tough field and might not win anyway, I'd use him a little less on top and use him 2nd and 3rd with some other horses trying to get that value on my ticket.

The probability of winning may change the way I structure the bet but it won't change the fact that I'm interested in that horse. So what I do really need the public odds for other than confirming what I already know, that one field was tougher than the other?

The costly mistake I made in the past when judging a trip was to decide about a horse in the manner you suggest above. Now it's far more the case of detesting the chances of a low bet horse, ideally two, in order to boost the pct. chance of interesting others' winning.

Your above horse in that tough field could likely encounters a significant rival or two I can toss. That's far less likely in the easy field where he's 7/2 and the second or third choice, against a formidable foe with his own advantages in an easier field.

NY BRED
01-14-2021, 10:06 AM
Maggie Brings a lot to the table.

While her husband isn't (yet) in the tp trainer category, I find her comments f the entries prior t post time to be useful , especially when betting the exotics.

Certainly superior to TVG (zero info), and Gulfstream , which, inmho isn't as informative

SG4
01-14-2021, 09:01 PM
Certainly superior to TVG (zero info), and Gulfstream , which, inmho isn't as informative


I will admit to having TVG on mute for the majority of time it's on my screen, but I will give them credit that their west coast team of interviewers get some good nuggets in the paddock. This was a great story from the other day for example:


https://twitter.com/i/status/1345144366772363264

Profesor
01-17-2021, 08:23 PM
I always check A Serling when I play NYRA helps me narrow a race down
I just eliminate his top 3 picks 😂

Ahorsewithnoname
01-18-2021, 07:48 PM
I always wondered if anyone handicaps favorites. I dont mean someone who posts randomly with usually favorites or low odds horses for every race. Roughly the number stands at 35% when you search on google, but what is that number for? All the races in every year or even all the races from the very start of horse racing? I was wondering if someone takes that thirty five percent and increases that percentage by narrowing down favorite type races. It would have to be difficult to make a profit especially betting the same amount on each horse. If you went on a small winning streak and consistently hit horses posted you possibly could make a profit. Something like this would be very difficult to do if you think about it, but definitely interesting.

PhantomOnTour
01-18-2021, 08:37 PM
Doug Salvatore, but i don't think he makes public picks anymore

MJC922
01-18-2021, 08:59 PM
Beyer of course in print has always been someone I've had great respect for.
Serling has the gift of gab, I'm always interested in what he has to say but yea if I still played I'd listen in small doses. Harvey's old replay show had tons of greats on there back in the 80s-90s, Pricci was always a favorite of mine but there were many good handicappers on there back then, Cornman, Litfin, Finley, a guy I don't even remember the name of but he followed trainers, when the mercury drops Levine pops, do remember that. Recorded that show on VHS every week during the winter months, off-season for me. Probably should mention Brad Thomas too, the NJ tracks had a replay show I'd sometimes catch late night.

classhandicapper
01-19-2021, 07:55 AM
Harvey's old replay show had tons of greats on there back in the 80s-90s, Pricci was always a favorite of mine but there were many good handicappers on there back then, Cornman, Litfin, Finley...

At one point I heard Corman didn't want to give out horses on the show anymore because they were taking too much money. :lol:

To me, he was easily the best.

There are loads of terrific public and track handicappers now, but they are all mostly looking at similar figures, watching the same replays, discussing the same trips and biases etc.. He was ahead of the handicapping curve back then. He brought insights and information to the table that weren't fully understood or available to everyone at that time. Maybe the game caught up to him now, but back then it was different.

I remember one summer in Saratoga decades ago I happened to be hanging out watching replays at the same TV as him and a friend for a few days. Just listening to him discuss races after the fact would always set off light bulbs.

46zilzal
01-19-2021, 10:32 AM
My mentor F.R.

Robert Fischer
01-19-2021, 11:02 AM
Andy Serling has done a nice job of highlighting interesting/useable mid-range prices, and pointing out overpriced contenders.

Especially lately, his show with The Big A, has been less about trying to pick the most likeliest winner of every race, but more about value considerations.
[shouts to Big A Stabile, while his technique is more straightforward likely winners regardless of price, - for that mention of "Baba" r4? the other day in a huge 25/1+ price include winner]

That fact (consideration of value by Andy) can be missed, if you just peek at selections, or tune in to a part of a segment.

Often (but not always) he tends to put the horse-to-beat 2nd in interesting races, and the strong chalk first, in more straight forward races...

Good food for thought, as sometimes they win, sometimes they fill out a Tri, sometimes I disagree (while exercising the thought process involved in handicapping a consideration or trip). Just as valuable are the same considerations for say why a Chalk or a 2nd-choice is likely to be overbet.


Had a lucky month, and played pretty much only maidens and/or large fields at several different tracks, but Aqueduct (and occasionally Triple Clowns!) are the only shows that I've watched.
Sometimes lucky is good. I don't know what happened first, but my old black cat "Mimi" came over and gave me a nose kiss and head rub while betting a cold exacta with some long-shots, whose connections jumped off the screen to me, yesterday, and they came in for ~$180 for each $2 punch. Quit for the day and broke out the treats... Hard game to break even in, and when I get lucky enough to win, I try to value the dollar the same. When I lose many a tough beat or a 'shut-out' that wins:mad::mad: I take a break and fight the urge to chase.


Want to give a shout out to my friends at Triple Clowns, as well. :ThmbUp::ThmbUp:
Nice group of people, and in addition to the Racing Stars that we recognize at first glance, they have some solid Horseplayers of the type that we'd enjoy breaking down a card with on the show. I've been fortunate to meet a few, and they genuinely do a nice job, with insights, and often knowledge of a home track.

castaway01
01-19-2021, 11:07 AM
Andy Serling has done a nice job of highlighting interesting/useable mid-range prices, and pointing out overpriced contenders.

Especially lately, his show with The Big A, has been less about trying to pick the most likeliest winner of every race, but more about value considerations.

Good food for thought, as sometimes they win, sometimes they fill out a Tri, sometimes I disagree (while exercising the thought process involved in handicapping a consideration or trip). Just as valuable are the same considerations for say why a Chalk or a 2nd-choice is likely to be overbet.

Nice group of people, and in addition to the Racing Stars that we recognize at first glance, they have some solid Horseplayers of the type that we'd enjoy breaking down a card with on the show. I've been fortunate to meet a few, and they genuinely do a nice job, with insights, and often knowledge of a home track.

The NYRA guys are the only handicappers where I feel like it's two really knowledgeable players talking like we used to at the track in the "old days" (actually Andy and Anthony are quite a bit smarter than the people I hung out with). Part of that is there being two of them, of course, so it's a conversation, but you can tell they've done their homework and they're clever. Maggie is great too, excellent observations and she's right quite often (plus I have no skills in that area so her opinions are valuable).

Also, for a single track, Brad Thomas is as good as anyone in the game. If it's Monmouth, he knows the deal.

No disrespect to your show Robert as I haven't listened to it enough to have an opinion yet.

Robert Fischer
01-19-2021, 11:28 AM
The NYRA guys are the only handicappers where I feel like it's two really knowledgeable players talking like we used to at the track in the "old days" (actually Andy and Anthony are quite a bit smarter than the people I hung out with). Part of that is there being two of them, of course, so it's a conversation, but you can tell they've done their homework and they're clever. Maggie is great too, excellent observations and she's right quite often (plus I have no skills in that area so her opinions are valuable).

Also, for a single track, Brad Thomas is as good as anyone in the game. If it's Monmouth, he knows the deal.

No disrespect to your show Robert as I haven't listened to it enough to have an opinion yet.
1 - Triple Clowns isn't my show (but thank you for the reference, and I get that you may have used the term to refer to my show as in shoutout. - Helped them some, I don't have the gift of gab, and been a hectic year (wish I had been better health and preparation and video quality in some of the appearances), but my point there = they have a legit good team, great star guest appearances, and a cast of 'regular' horseplayers who really do a great job and I feel the horseplayers on PA would connect with them as the type of 'Local' players you'd see in a clubhouse or your favorite guys on the rail... Their show is usually slow to develop and takes some patience, but rewarding.
There's a whole network of different racing horseplayers and webcasts on twitter and other cool platforms, that I'm just learning about, and would be of interest to us players.

2. Yea, I love the NYRA cast and show. - My style and bankroll and life right now doesn't call for knowing every horse by heart, and watching every race, and knowing every trip, and knowing things like who was entered when and scratched for a better spot, etc... So that's a nice thing to have as a resource - a team that does all that, and does it well, with character.

3. Brad Thomas seems like a real hardworking PRO. I haven't had the opportunity to follow him consistently, but when I do, it's obvious that he is dedicated, smart, and professional.


side note -

any talking horses/NYRA-circuit fans feel free to private message me for an additional tip

classhandicapper
01-19-2021, 12:33 PM
I was lucky enough to spend some time with Brad discussing races and watching replays together. Besides being super nice and generous with his insights, imo the thing that makes him stand out to me is that he sees things in the replays that are not obvious and that most people are not even looking for.

46zilzal
01-22-2021, 11:26 PM
David Schwartz

good choice