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SG4
10-26-2017, 11:05 PM
I know that HANA puts a lot of effort into maintaining a list of track stats showing the most horse-player friendly places to play & wagers to make, and they do a lot of other things to help the bettor. One thing I cannot find on their website, or a comprehensive list of anywhere, is a listing/ranking of available ADWs for bettors to choose from. I know some states have their hands tied far as what provider they can use, but I imagine a number of residents in the US have several they can choose from. Wouldn't it be a good resource for players if somewhere there was a comprehensive list of all the available wagering options & what the pros & cons were of all sites. Wouldn't this also force better customer service & options hopefully down the road if people started focusing on choosing to wager with the best ranked operator?

Afleet
10-26-2017, 11:24 PM
excellent point

thaskalos
10-26-2017, 11:38 PM
The rebate-issue being the "hush-hush" topic that it is...I doubt that there can be any "honest" appraisal of the different ADW outlets out there.

cj
10-26-2017, 11:49 PM
The rebate-issue being the "hush-hush" topic that it is...I doubt that there can be any "honest" appraisal of the different ADW outlets out there.

Tracks don't want the average Joe knowing exactly what he is going up against when he takes his one or two or three hundred dollars to the track on a Saturday.

thaskalos
10-26-2017, 11:54 PM
Tracks don't want the average Joe knowing exactly what he is going up against when he takes his one or two or three hundred dollars to the track on a Saturday.

I had been a regular horseplayer for 25 years before I even HEARD the word "rebate"...and I first saw it right here on this board. And I hear practically nothing "concrete" about this issue, even NOW.

cj
10-26-2017, 11:58 PM
I had been a regular horseplayer for 25 years before I even HEARD the word "rebate"...and I first saw it right here on this board. And I hear practically nothing "concrete" about this issue, even NOW.

Agree...I think they'd rather have a major race fixing scandal than have to divulge rebate information.

That said, the big circuits keep raising signal fees, so unless you are betting through them or their ADW, my guess is rebates are shrinking as well.

Here is how I see it. Winners aren't winners until they take profits. Taking profits removes money from circulation. Your average Joe can only lose so much money on a weekly or monthly basis. Do tracks want whales getting the lion's share of that money, or themselves?

thaskalos
10-27-2017, 12:16 AM
Agree...I think they'd rather have a major race fixing scandal than have to divulge rebate information.

That said, the big circuits keep raising signal fees, so unless you are betting through them or their ADW, my guess is rebates are shrinking as well.

Here is how I see it. Winners aren't winners until they take profits. Taking profits removes money from circulation. Your average Joe can only lose so much money on a weekly or monthly basis. Do tracks want whales getting the lion's share of that money, or themselves?

IMO...the betting-volume of the highly-rebated "mega-bettors" is WAY bigger than we think...and the tracks don't want to openly admit that they've lost as many unrebated "regular bettors" as they have. And...being forthright about the rebate benefits that they offer to these "select few" risks alienating the remaining "regular bettors" even more. So...they try to keep the "regular guy" as uninformed about the rebates as they can.

The tracks know that the hordes of horseplayers who have left the game are unlikely to return...and their only choice now is to try and keep these "mega-bettors" as happy as they can make them. Because...if these guys pack-up and leave as well...then it will be time for the game to fold its tent, and go away.

Charli125
10-27-2017, 12:18 AM
Agree...I think they'd rather have a major race fixing scandal than have to divulge rebate information.

Yep. Impossible to share rebate schedules from various adw's even if they were consistent because tracks would raise signal fees.

We've discussed since it's one of the most frequent questions we receive, but it's just impossible. Some states only allow a few ADW's, some states have a source market fee, etc. Any kind of ranking would have to be done by state and by dollar amount and we'd get sued by everyone and their brother for putting that information out there even if we could collect it.

Love the idea, wish I could make it happen, but it's not going to happen.

rastajenk
10-27-2017, 08:29 AM
Could the ranking that the original poster suggests be created bottom-up, generated by user comments and experiences rather than meticulously researched insider data? A sort of Yelp for ADW's. Tracks, and even the ADW's themselves, need not be part of the process.

lamboguy
10-27-2017, 09:10 AM
keep in mind no matter how big your rebate is the adw keeps all the breakage. they probably make more from the breakage than they do from the takeout.

an adw will customize individual customers. some will give a flat rate for whatever type of bet you make, others will differentiate between pick 5's, exacta's, superfecta's and win bets. then depending on how much you play they have different percentages for what they will give you.

when i was in full swing i was carrying 5 different adw's because they featured different rates. if a track raises their rates like Sourthern California did a few years ago on their gimmick wagers i never received a notification and a boost up in my rebate for those bets. i never pursued them either because i rarely bet them. but i am sure some big players must have asked for an increase.

never the less, if i ran the game what i would do is straighten out the mechanics of the game, drop all rebates and lower the takeout to 10%. the game just got a good shot in the arm with the tax law changes and i seriously think it would be worthwhile now to put the effort in to make the mandatory changes the game needs as has been often discussed in these forums.

the players here are more educated about the game than in years past. to address the drug problems, the super trainer's and the after the bell betting is not that tough.

SG4
10-27-2017, 11:08 PM
I didn't realize rebate rates were so hush-hush. The several ADWs I have used were all pretty upfront online about their rebate amounts offered. Maybe I was getting screwed by not trying to negotiate my own extra rebates as it sounds like people can get some extra $ back if they request & are solid customers? People are really that afraid to share what sort of amounts are available to them, and ADW's would actually be litigious you think if these results were available somewhere? I'm pretty aggravated by the lack of advertisement, I missed out for several years on getting about 3x as much in rebates when comparing the best place I found now to having mostly used NYRA rewards for a long time.