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SG4
10-26-2017, 05:07 PM
So the weather forecast for Belmont on Sunday calls for nearly 3 inches of rain, likely early in the morning, 100% of something strong. Considering they couldn't even keep all races on the turf yesterday after some moderate rain on Tuesday, why would they even think a turf race is in any realm of possibility for Sunday? But the entries come out this afternoon, 5 of 9 races are scheduled for the turf. Now I know it's important for racing secretaries to stick to the condition book to build trust & better fields etc, but in a situation so glaring as this one, why don't they have the discretion of switching these turf races to say next Wednesday & moving up some dirt races in their place. This forecast has been in place for a few days, there was time to make calls to horsemen etc. The Sunday card is going to be a washout, and nobody wins from that perspective.

cj
10-26-2017, 05:12 PM
Probably can't fill that many dirt races anyway, at least with decent field sizes, so might as well take a shot the weather man is wrong.

Gentz
10-26-2017, 05:44 PM
You mean you dont like it when they scratch a full field plus an also eligible list down to 3 turf horses running in the slop? What action! I love it. But then I also like carbolic acid on the rocks with a garnish of bamboo chips.

Al Gobbi
10-26-2017, 06:25 PM
Probably can't fill that many dirt races anyway, at least with decent field sizes, so might as well take a shot the weather man is wrong.

It is also closing day at Belmont, might as well run on the turf unless its unsafe.

Prioress Ply
10-27-2017, 01:49 AM
Everyone loved Martin (King of Fake Entries) Panza when he was hired. Martin knows oh so well how to card a synthetic race that looks good on paper but melts about 6 hours to post.

Enjoy suckers.

Ruffian1
10-27-2017, 08:31 PM
So the weather forecast for Belmont on Sunday calls for nearly 3 inches of rain, likely early in the morning, 100% of something strong. Considering they couldn't even keep all races on the turf yesterday after some moderate rain on Tuesday, why would they even think a turf race is in any realm of possibility for Sunday? But the entries come out this afternoon, 5 of 9 races are scheduled for the turf. Now I know it's important for racing secretaries to stick to the condition book to build trust & better fields etc, but in a situation so glaring as this one, why don't they have the discretion of switching these turf races to say next Wednesday & moving up some dirt races in their place. This forecast has been in place for a few days, there was time to make calls to horsemen etc. The Sunday card is going to be a washout, and nobody wins from that perspective.


Direct this question towards track management.

sour grapes
10-29-2017, 12:34 PM
cancelled again with a big carryover,2nd time this year.
belmont hasnt cancelled racing in 20 years before.

castaway01
10-29-2017, 01:12 PM
cancelled again with a big carryover,2nd time this year.
belmont hasnt cancelled racing in 20 years before.

They cancelled for Hurricane Sandy in October 2012, due to heavy rain on September 27, 2012, due to heat in June 2012, and due to snow and sleet on closing day in 2011. For starters.

SG4
10-29-2017, 01:29 PM
Direct this question towards track management.

Do you think horsemen would prefer leeway with a condition book based on upcoming weather or other scenarios, or are they more interested in sticking to the book based on their training schedules?

PaceAdvantage
10-29-2017, 02:04 PM
The internet...where anyone can say anything, and you're guaranteed a throng of supporters/believers in every word, in no time flat...

mountainman
10-29-2017, 03:08 PM
Condition book races are carefully rotated to not conflict with other races and to give horses adequate time between opportunities. So what you suggest might, in this case, throw certain things out of whack.

And, to be honest, the racing dept would be very hesitant to take on the headache and potential confusion of rearranging things so abruptly. Getting the word out would be hell.

But, then again, most racing secs are extremely sharp, detail-oriented people who excel under pressure and think fast on their feet. That's how they get to BE racing secs. The job is much harder than most players might assume.

Ruffian1
10-29-2017, 04:15 PM
Do you think horsemen would prefer leeway with a condition book based on upcoming weather or other scenarios, or are they more interested in sticking to the book based on their training schedules?


Sticking to the book.

There were times when my race would be brought back 4-5 times before they used it. You end up training the horse like a fool in hind site because you can't assume the race goes in 8-10 days, you have to assume it goes in 2-3 days, then 2-3 , then 2-3 and then it goes.
So you end up training your horse all wrong. You need to know when a race is going to run and work towards that date . That was always my take on it.

Afleet
10-29-2017, 04:17 PM
You mean you dont like it when they scratch a full field plus an also eligible list down to 3 turf horses running in the slop? What action! I love it. But then I also like carbolic acid on the rocks with a garnish of bamboo chips.

just bet show and you will be fine

mountainman
11-01-2017, 01:18 PM
Sticking to the book.

There were times when my race would be brought back 4-5 times before they used it. You end up training the horse like a fool in hind site because you can't assume the race goes in 8-10 days, you have to assume it goes in 2-3 days, then 2-3 , then 2-3 and then it goes.
So you end up training your horse all wrong. You need to know when a race is going to run and work towards that date . That was always my take on it.

Good post. I hate when I can't get to an extra, might need it for the next day, but can't bring it back because it now crowds an upcoming book race.

Our policy at Mnr is to prefer book races over bring-backs, which isn't always in the best interest of the program, but rightfully encourages horsemen to train for the book.

onefast99
11-01-2017, 01:27 PM
Sticking to the book.

There were times when my race would be brought back 4-5 times before they used it. You end up training the horse like a fool in hind site because you can't assume the race goes in 8-10 days, you have to assume it goes in 2-3 days, then 2-3 , then 2-3 and then it goes.
So you end up training your horse all wrong. You need to know when a race is going to run and work towards that date . That was always my take on it.
This is the main reason trainers look at other tracks to race, it happened at MP all summer long. It stopped when Parx closed for their summer break.

toddbowker
11-01-2017, 06:30 PM
Sticking to the book.

There were times when my race would be brought back 4-5 times before they used it. You end up training the horse like a fool in hind site because you can't assume the race goes in 8-10 days, you have to assume it goes in 2-3 days, then 2-3 , then 2-3 and then it goes.
So you end up training your horse all wrong. You need to know when a race is going to run and work towards that date . That was always my take on it.
One of the reasons I loved working for Warren Wolf at River Downs back in the day. He never wrote extras. Ever.

Ruffian1
11-01-2017, 06:35 PM
Good post. I hate when I can't get to an extra, might need it for the next day, but can't bring it back because it now crowds an upcoming book race.

Our policy at Mnr is to prefer book races over bring-backs, which isn't always in the best interest of the program, but rightfully encourages horsemen to train for the book.

Wow.

That is a wonderful way to look at it.

I am not hating on extras and I certainly understand all the different people involved that need them, want them, etc.

But I will say that looking back, when the book was all there was, nine races and 2 subs, you really could count on your race going. And if it didn't, you would find it two weeks later.

It made my job easier, except of course when they were paging you all afternoon to fill a race, Lol.
But... doing so sometimes and not saying no every time allowed me to get more stalls as my outfit grew.

Like most things, it had to be a two way street.

Ruffian1
11-01-2017, 06:42 PM
This is the main reason trainers look at other tracks to race, it happened at MP all summer long. It stopped when Parx closed for their summer break.

True. But management and the racing office can get awfully pissed, and often times, but not every time, rightfully so.

Nobody gets to have things perfect. We all wish we did. But if you are honest with them, and truly try to work with the racing secretary's office, they will work with you.

We both have difficult jobs to do that are always scrutinized by plenty of people. I always found that working together allowed both parties to only feel the heat sometimes, instead of one party feeling it all the time.

Just my take and how I did it.

Ruffian1
11-01-2017, 07:27 PM
One of the reasons I loved working for Warren Wolf at River Downs back in the day. He never wrote extras. Ever.


I never raced there.

Sounds like we would have gotten along just fine.

toddbowker
11-02-2017, 10:01 AM
He also announced the races that were going at 10:00am, and closed promptly at 10:30am. Every day. Like clockwork.

Being an assistant there was easy. The trainers all knew, and entered early so they didn't get shut out. Not a lot of the gamesmanship I saw at other tracks with people holding entries.

Ruffian1
11-02-2017, 01:26 PM
He also announced the races that were going at 10:00am, and closed promptly at 10:30am. Every day. Like clockwork.

Being an assistant there was easy. The trainers all knew, and entered early so they didn't get shut out. Not a lot of the gamesmanship I saw at other tracks with people holding entries.


The good ole days !

Entries closed around 11 am in Md. back in the day.

9 in the book, 2 subs.

A 9 race card back then.

Thomas Roulston
11-04-2017, 04:47 PM
I will never, never, NEVER understand taking races off the turf on the last day of a meet. What are they "saving" the turf course for - next year?

Every day somewhere in Europe races are run on a turf course listed as "heavy" - and if horses and riders were falling down all over the place, I think we would know about it.

And what would they do at Kentucky Downs?