PDA

View Full Version : Cubs winning IN SPITE of Joe Maddon...


thaskalos
10-15-2017, 11:35 PM
I started a similar thread last year, but I couldn't find it on this site...so, I am starting it all over again. With the score tied late in the game, and after watching the Dodgers use their ace closer from the 8th inning..."genius" Joe Maddon elects to bring in John Lackey in the Dodger 9th...and keeps him in even though Lackey was having obvious control problems. When asked after the game why Wade Davis wasn't warming up in the pen with the day off tomorrow...Maddon incredulously stated that his closer wasn't warming up because "it wasn't a save situation". :bang:

The Cubs manager can't manage a relief-pitching staff to save his life...and his team deserves extra credit for doing as well as they've done with him at the helm. :ThmbDown::ThmbDown:

ReplayRandall
10-16-2017, 12:20 AM
This might be it:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132554&highlight=maddon

dnlgfnk
10-16-2017, 12:27 AM
I started a similar thread last year, but I couldn't find it on this site...so, I am starting it all over again. With the score tied late in the game, and after watching the Dodgers use their ace closer from the 8th inning..."genius" Joe Maddon elects to bring in John Lackey in the Dodger 9th...and keeps him in even though Lackey was having obvious control problems. When asked after the game why Wade Davis wasn't warming up in the pen with the day off tomorrow...Maddon incredulously stated that his closer wasn't warming up because "it wasn't a save situation". :bang:

The Cubs manager can't manage a relief-pitching staff to save his life...and his team deserves extra credit for doing as well as they've done with him at the helm. :ThmbDown::ThmbDown:

In Maddon's defense, Davis told him he was only good for 1 inning, had already warmed up once, and if they could escape the 9th, they would still have to face Turner in the 10th.

But I agree with you--the Cubs had to get to the 10th or nothing else mattered. On the TBS postgame, Gary Sheffield and Pedro Martinez agreed with that, while Jimmy Rollins agreed with the path Maddon opted for.

NorCalGreg
10-16-2017, 05:18 AM
As soon as I read the thread's title, I remembered the thread from last year. Crow must be a delicacy in Greece.

Whosonfirst
10-16-2017, 06:34 AM
In Maddon's defense, Davis told him he was only good for 1 inning, had already warmed up once, and if they could escape the 9th, they would still have to face Turner in the 10th.

But I agree with you--the Cubs had to get to the 10th or nothing else mattered. On the TBS postgame, Gary Sheffield and Pedro Martinez agreed with that, while Jimmy Rollins agreed with the path Maddon opted for.
Turner is Kirk Gibson re-incarnated. What a beast.

cj
10-16-2017, 09:26 AM
Went full Buck Showalter last night. Buck left the best pitcher in the game last year on the bench because "it wasn't a save situation" and brought in a (horrible) starter, Ubaldo Jimenez, instead. And that was an elimination game.

These guys try to be too clever.

reckless
10-16-2017, 12:07 PM
I confess to once being an uber mark for Joe Maddon. But that all changed and I thank Joe Maddon for this change!

Two years ago, Maddon gets out-managed by Terry Collins of all people. Now, I am a life-long Mets fan so the end result will never be forgotten -- the Mets were the 2015 NL champions!

Last season, the Cubs did win their first MLB championship in 108 years but they did so despite terrible managing by Maddon. Just terrible. His numerous bad moves and mistakes were tossed aside in the frenzy of Cubs Win! Cub Win! Cubs Nation mania.

This year it seems to me he's not offering much from the dugout.

It's still way too early to bury the team for 2017, of course, but so far, it does look like the Cubbies are working on their next 100 year World Series drought.

thaskalos
10-16-2017, 12:23 PM
I confess to once being an uber mark for Joe Maddon. But that all changed and I thank Joe Maddon for this change!

Two years ago, Maddon gets out-managed by Terry Collins of all people. Now, I am a life-long Mets fan so the end result will never be forgotten -- the Mets were the 2015 NL champions!

Last season, the Cubs did win their first MLB championship in 108 years but they did so despite terrible managing by Maddon. Just terrible. His numerous bad moves and mistakes were tossed aside in the frenzy of Cubs Win! Cub Win! Cubs Nation mania.

This year it seems to me he's not offering much from the dugout.

It's still way too early to bury the team for 2017, of course, but so far, it does look like the Cubbies are working on their next 100 year World Series drought.

I'm not as good at "prognosticating" as you are...but I am willing to bet serious money that the Cubs will win another MLB championship before the Mets do...Joe Maddon notwithstanding.

reckless
10-16-2017, 12:31 PM
I'm not as good at "prognosticating" as you are...but I am willing to bet serious money that the Cubs will win another MLB championship before the Mets do...Joe Maddon notwithstanding.

We agree on that one Gus!!

dnlgfnk
10-16-2017, 12:37 PM
Turner is Kirk Gibson re-incarnated. What a beast.

So wanted the Cards to pursue him after last season, along with Adam Eaton (who likely wouldn't have been injured in '17, things being different). Instead we get Brett Cecil and Dex Fowler...

Cecil...4yrs @30 mil
Fowler 5yrs @82 mil
VS
Turner 4 yrs @64$mil
Eaton 5yr @23mil

On the other hand, Turner didn't want to leave LA and they would have taken on all bidders.

dnlgfnk
10-16-2017, 12:39 PM
Went full Buck Showalter last night. Buck left the best pitcher in the game last year on the bench because "it wasn't a save situation" and brought in a (horrible) starter, Ubaldo Jimenez, instead. And that was an elimination game.

These guys try to be too clever.

That may not have been Maddon's worst mistake...

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/joe-maddon-had-a-bad-night/

johnhannibalsmith
10-16-2017, 01:16 PM
Maddon's magic must be in the way he motivates men because I've always thought he was just plain lucky to get away with some of the moves he makes or doesn't make.

mostpost
10-16-2017, 03:31 PM
I started a similar thread last year, but I couldn't find it on this site...so, I am starting it all over again. With the score tied late in the game, and after watching the Dodgers use their ace closer from the 8th inning..."genius" Joe Maddon elects to bring in John Lackey in the Dodger 9th...and keeps him in even though Lackey was having obvious control problems. When asked after the game why Wade Davis wasn't warming up in the pen with the day off tomorrow...Maddon incredulously stated that his closer wasn't warming up because "it wasn't a save situation". :bang:

The Cubs manager can't manage a relief-pitching staff to save his life...and his team deserves extra credit for doing as well as they've done with him at the helm. :ThmbDown::ThmbDown:
My problem is that he didn't intentionally walk Justin Turner. I know that would have loaded the bases but only one run mattered. I know Cody Bellinger is having a monster year, but Turner was five for seven (now six for eight with runners in scoring position in the post season this year.

So we have the wrong pitcher (Lackey) and the wrong tactic (Pitching to Turner). Other than that, Maddon did fine in the ninth inning yesterday.

mostpost
10-16-2017, 03:58 PM
Not only is Maddon screwing up on a regular basis, the Cubs players are performing well below their potential.

Following is a list of Cubs hitters with their post season batting averages compared to their regular season averages

Willson Contreras Avg. -96 OPS -180

Javier Baez Avg. -273 OPS -701

Kris Bryant Avg. -216 OPS -489

Anthony Rizzo Avg -119 OPS -350

Addison Russell Avg. -31 OPS -36

Ben Zobrist Avg -21 OPS -127

Albert Almora Avg -67 OPS -35


Jason Heyward Avg -126 OPS -345

Jon Jay Avg Avg -74 OPS -71

Kyle Schwarber Avg -86 OPS -435.

That is certainly not the way to win an NLCS, or the coed softball game at the company picnic.

Nutz and Boltz
10-16-2017, 06:54 PM
Turner is Kirk Gibson re-incarnated. What a beast.

Turner is another one that the Mets let get away. Both he and Murphy turned into different kind of hitters after they left them.

wisconsin
10-17-2017, 07:30 PM
It's pretty simple to me. With 2 strikes you do not swing until the pitcher starts throwing strikes with 2 strikes. Not rocket science.

Valuist
10-18-2017, 01:03 PM
I confess to once being an uber mark for Joe Maddon. But that all changed and I thank Joe Maddon for this change!

Two years ago, Maddon gets out-managed by Terry Collins of all people. Now, I am a life-long Mets fan so the end result will never be forgotten -- the Mets were the 2015 NL champions!

Last season, the Cubs did win their first MLB championship in 108 years but they did so despite terrible managing by Maddon. Just terrible. His numerous bad moves and mistakes were tossed aside in the frenzy of Cubs Win! Cub Win! Cubs Nation mania.

This year it seems to me he's not offering much from the dugout.

It's still way too early to bury the team for 2017, of course, but so far, it does look like the Cubbies are working on their next 100 year World Series drought.

The drought is over. You can't rewrite history. I agree with Thask; your Mets are going to have a longer future drought than the Cubs.

LemonSoupKid
10-19-2017, 01:52 PM
It was a magical year for the Cubs last year, including the fact that a team was up 3-1 on them without two top line starters, and somehow they found a way to win.

This year, they are outmanned. They don't hit as much. Solo HRs?

It should end tonight.

Valuist
10-19-2017, 03:15 PM
A couple other bizarre decisions (or non-decisions) by Maddon last night.

First off, no double switch when Davis entered the game? He was due to bat second the next inning. And secondly, we have a relief pitcher who's been in the AL his entire career before 2017. With a runner on first and less than 2 out, why is Davis swinging away and not bunting?

mostpost
10-19-2017, 08:02 PM
A couple other bizarre decisions (or non-decisions) by Maddon last night.

First off, no double switch when Davis entered the game? He was due to bat second the next inning. And secondly, we have a relief pitcher who's been in the AL his entire career before 2017. With a runner on first and less than 2 out, why is Davis swinging away and not bunting?

I don't think there was any logical double switch he could have made. His primary concern was to have the best defensive team on the field. You aren't going to sub out Contreras. Nor are you going to replace Bryant, Russell, Baez or Rizzo.

In the outfield, Heyward was already in. You may want to replace him offensively but there are few better outfielders defensively. Almora is far and away the best center fielder on the team. The only place you might have improved the defense would be by replacing Jon Jay with Leonys Martin. But Jay was due up first in the bottom of the eighth.

As far as bunting, there was graphic while he was batting which said his last successful sacrifice was in 2013

barahona44
10-19-2017, 09:08 PM
Yoi have to be impressed with the Dodgers ability to sniff out other teams benchwarmers like Justin Turner and Enrique Hernandez who turn into post season stars.

Valuist
10-24-2017, 12:49 PM
As far as bunting, there was graphic while he was batting which said his last successful sacrifice was in 2013

That's because he was with KC. 2013 was probably the last time he had a plate appearance. American League relievers very rarely ever come to the plate. Swinging away was the wrong move. As for the double switch, yes I would have swapped Jay in for Heyward out. Jay was one of the Cubs' more dependable players all season. No way should a reliever been up that inning.

Valuist
10-24-2017, 12:52 PM
Yoi have to be impressed with the Dodgers ability to sniff out other teams benchwarmers like Justin Turner and Enrique Hernandez who turn into post season stars.

Hernandez was a one game star. Turner? He's has become a legit All-Star. Great turnaround, but a lot has been changing his approach at the plate. With the Mets, he was more of a punch and Judy hitter, occasionally getting line drives. Now he's looking to launch, and he has managed to not sacrifice his average. One of only 5 regular players in MLB to have more walks than strikeouts.

ElKabong
10-27-2017, 02:07 AM
ESPN crawl notes that cubs made multiple coaching changes, among them being hitting coach chili Davis being brought in

thaskalos
10-27-2017, 03:28 AM
Hopefully...Joe Maddon will be the next to go.

reckless
10-28-2017, 11:14 AM
The drought is over. You can't rewrite history. I agree with Thask; your Mets are going to have a longer future drought than the Cubs.

Valuist, I agreed with Thask as well!! Maybe you missed it. :)

reckless
10-28-2017, 11:15 AM
Hopefully...Joe Maddon will be the next to go.

I originally thought it was me who felt this way.