Where are all the Democrat Conspiracy Theorists??

[sq764]

I am shocked that hurricanes in Florida, a key political state, are not being blamed on the Bush Administration..

First the 7 targets in NY and NJ, now this!!

[hcap]

No need for conspiracy theories while jeb is govnor. He played with the votes in 2000. Now with electronic voting and no paper trail, his bro can win without denying the African-american vote.
Who will ever know?

However, MM is down there with cameras as well as others. The scrutiny may not allow jeb much wiggle room, and since it looks like Kerry MAY win flor-i-duh, if big bro bush does win, you will HEAR about the conspiracy then.

[schweitz]

Originally posted by hcap
[B]No need for conspiracy theories while jeb is govnor. He played with the votes in 2000. Now with electronic voting and no paper trail, his bro can win without denying the African-american vote.
Who will ever know?


I don't know which is more pathetic---you believing the above crap---or you knowing better but continuing the lies.

[hcap]

schweitz,

I hope you're ready to watch your boy retire to crawford

http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/ch9.htm

Voting Irregularities in Florida During the 2000 Presidential Election

Chapter 9

Findings and Recommendations

"CHAPTER 1: VOTING SYSTEM CONTROLS AND FAILURES

Voter Disenfranchisement

Findings

*
During Florida’s 2000 presidential election, restrictive statutory provisions, wide-ranging errors, and inadequate resources in the Florida election process denied countless Floridians of their right to vote.

*
This disenfranchisement of Florida voters fell most harshly on the shoulders of African Americans. Statewide, based on county-level statistical estimates, African American voters were nearly 10 times more likely than white voters to have their ballots rejected in the November 2000 election.[5]

*
Poorer counties, particularly those with large minority populations, were more likely to use voting systems with higher spoilage rates than more affluent counties with significant white populations. For example, in Gadsden County, the only county in the state with an African American majority, approximately one in eight voters was disenfranchised. In Leon County, on the other hand, which is home to the prosperous state capital and two state universities, fewer than two votes in 1,000 were not counted. In Florida, of the 100 precincts with the highest numbers of disqualified ballots, 83 of them are majority-black precincts.

*
Even in counties where the same voting technology was used, blacks were far more likely to have their votes rejected than whites. "

Also see
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=584&ncid=584&e=8&u=/nm/20040715/pl_nm/campaign_florida_dc

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Florida faces another debacle in the upcoming presidential election on Nov. 2, with the possibility that thousands of people will be unjustly denied the right to vote, the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights heard on Thursday.

In a hearing on the illegal disenfranchisement of alleged felons in Florida, commissioners accused state officials of "extraordinary negligence" in drawing up a list of 48,000 people to be purged from voter rolls, most of them because they may once have committed a crime.
............

" After the 2000 election, it emerged that thousands of people, mostly blacks, were improperly denied the right to vote because they mistakenly appeared on a list of ex-felons. Florida is one of seven states that denies former prisoners the right to vote for life unless a clemency commission restores their rights.

This year, the state produced a new list of 48,000 people to be purged from voter rolls. The state kept the list secret until news organizations sued and a judge ordered the state to make it public. "

[hcap]

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=122&row=1


THE GREAT FLORIDA EX-CON GAME How the 'felon' voter-purge was itself felonious
Harper's Magazine
Friday, March 1, 2002

by Greg Palast

In November the U.S. media, lost in patriotic reverie, dressed up the Florida recount as a victory for President Bush. But however one reads the ballots, Bush's win would certainly have been jeopardized had not some Floridians been barred from casting ballots at all. Between May 1999 and Election Day 2000, two Florida secretaries of state - Sandra Mortham and Katherine Harris, both protégées of Governor Jeb Bush- ordered 57,700 "ex-felons," who are prohibited from voting by state law, to be removed from voter rolls. (In the thirty-five states where former felons can vote, roughly 90 percent vote Democratic.) A portion of the list, which was compiled for Florida by DBT Online, can be seen for the first time here; DBT, a company now owned by ChoicePoint of Atlanta, was paid $4.3 million for its work, replacing a firm that charged $5,700 per year for the same service. If the hope was that DBT would enable Florida to exclude more voters, then the state appears to have spent its money wisely.

[ponyplayer]

How convenient, no mention of all the disallowed absentee ballots by the Democrats that were from our Florida servicemen, who the majority would have voted for Bush since they knew gore was a pussy.

[schweitz]

Originally posted by hcap
schweitz,

I hope you're ready to watch your boy retire to crawford

http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/ch9.htm

Voting Irregularities in Florida During the 2000 Presidential Election

Chapter 9

Findings and Recommendations

"CHAPTER 1: VOTING SYSTEM CONTROLS AND FAILURES

Voter Disenfranchisement

Findings

*
During Florida’s 2000 presidential election, restrictive statutory provisions, wide-ranging errors, and inadequate resources in the Florida election process denied countless Floridians of their right to vote.

*
This disenfranchisement of Florida voters fell most harshly on the shoulders of African Americans. Statewide, based on county-level statistical estimates, African American voters were nearly 10 times more likely than white voters to have their ballots rejected in the November 2000 election.[5]

*
Poorer counties, particularly those with large minority populations, were more likely to use voting systems with higher spoilage rates than more affluent counties with significant white populations. For example, in Gadsden County, the only county in the state with an African American majority, approximately one in eight voters was disenfranchised. In Leon County, on the other hand, which is home to the prosperous state capital and two state universities, fewer than two votes in 1,000 were not counted. In Florida, of the 100 precincts with the highest numbers of disqualified ballots, 83 of them are majority-black precincts.

*
Even in counties where the same voting technology was used, blacks were far more likely to have their votes rejected than whites. "

Also see
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=584&ncid=584&e=8&u=/nm/20040715/pl_nm/campaign_florida_dc

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Florida faces another debacle in the upcoming presidential election on Nov. 2, with the possibility that thousands of people will be unjustly denied the right to vote, the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights heard on Thursday.

In a hearing on the illegal disenfranchisement of alleged felons in Florida, commissioners accused state officials of "extraordinary negligence" in drawing up a list of 48,000 people to be purged from voter rolls, most of them because they may once have committed a crime.
............

" After the 2000 election, it emerged that thousands of people, mostly blacks, were improperly denied the right to vote because they mistakenly appeared on a list of ex-felons. Florida is one of seven states that denies former prisoners the right to vote for life unless a clemency commission restores their rights.

This year, the state produced a new list of 48,000 people to be purged from voter rolls. The state kept the list secret until news organizations sued and a judge ordered the state to make it public. "

Hcap,
The U.S. Commission on Civil Rights found nothing.

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/kirsanow200407120824.asp


Florida's non-readable ballots were the same as the average for other states (2-3%).

The largest percentage of felons not allowed to vote were white.

And by the way all of the disputed counties were Democrat controlled and the polls were run by Democrats.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Only Kerry spins as much as a hurricane.

[dav4463]

What about all the dead people who voted for Gore in Chicago ? What about all the homeless who were given cigarettes and a bus ride to the polls to vote for Gore? Nobody seems to ever remember them. When will these idiots get over Florida ? Bush would have won anyway if the votes of the servicemen were counted. These people piss me off, they are just like all the crybabies who blame the officials every time their team loses.

[hcap]

schweitz,

I post the findings of the The U.S. Commission on Civil Rights

" This disenfranchisement of Florida voters fell most harshly on the shoulders of African Americans. Statewide, based on county-level statistical estimates, African American voters were nearly 10 times more likely than white voters to have their ballots rejected in the November 2000 election."

And

"The Impact of the Purge List on Persons of Color
"Findings....

*

The state of Florida’s statutorily mandated purge list, compiled by a private firm, was provided to county supervisors of elections with names that were inexact matches. The data provided demonstrated that this list had at least a 14.1 percent error rate.
*

African Americans had a significantly greater chance of being listed on Florida’s mandated purge list. The probability of names of African Americans appearing on the list in error was significantly greater than the likelihood of the names of whites being erroneously included on the purge list.
*

The state of Florida’s use of this purge list, combined with the state law that places the burden on voters to remove themselves from the list, resulted in denying countless African Americans the right to vote.


You post an article by ONE of the members of the Commission-Peter Kirsanow- for the National Review, not exactly the most objective journal in this debate. He might have been part of the minority report, if there was one. Do you know?
His OPINION after the fact does not alter the conclusions of the commission

Do you have any other evidence that the Commissions report was incorrect?
Btw, I posted other stuff supporting my view. And as far as me being pathetic.."I don't know which is more pathetic---you believing the above crap---or you knowing better but continuing the lies."I guess in liew of the facts I posted, you have no intelligent reply, other than demeaning the messenger.

[hcap]

Well there's always the voice of the international community

[hcap]

from Molly Ivins

http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=17468

"In 2000, a firm with GOP connections was hired by then Secretary of State Katherine Harris (also chair of the state Bush-for-Prez campaign) to scan felon records nationwide and then purge Florida voters with similar -- or almost similar -- names. Bush officially carried Florida by 537 votes that year. Florida newspapers later found 8,000 of the blacklisted voters had been convicted of misdemeanors, not felonies.

This year, same song, second verse. Gov. Bush tried to purge 47,000 supposed ex-felons. A Miami Herald investigation of the new list found it named Democrats by a three-to-one margin and wrongly listed 2,100 people whose citizenship had already been restored through a clemency process.

The Tampa Tribune produced an even more startling discovery: While half of those on this year's list are black, the list contains the names of fewer than 100 Hispanics. Hispanics in Florida tend to be Republican-leaning Cuban-Americans. Gosh, Gov. Bush was just astonished about the no-Hispanics thing -- except the state had been repeatedly warned about it. He finally withdrew the list on July 11. Then, on July 14, the First District U.S. Court of Appeals in Tallahassee ruled the state must help felons fill out the form they need to win back the right to vote after serving their time. Instead, Gov. Bush eliminated the form.

One tries not to be alarmist, one tries not to be paranoid, but this doth smelleth. Is there any Republican who would be happy if the role of the parties were reversed here and only Hispanic felons had been on Jebbie Bush's little list, but no blacks? Come on.

The Republican Party in Florida is now urging its voters to use absentee ballots so they will have a paper trail in case of a recount. Hey, if it's good enough for Republicans..."

[hcap]

I guess if there was no wrongdoing on this issue the state of Florida could have prevailed WITHOUT settling this lawsuit But that's exactly what they did. Why?

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/state/3995562.htm?1c

To settle post-2000 lawsuit, Florida will tighten election rules

"State elections officials agreed to restore thousands of Floridians who were improperly purged from voting lists and to designate a coordinator to oversee voting rights compliance in all 67 counties, under the settlement of a landmark lawsuit reached Tuesday in Miami.

The deal reached between the state and five civil rights groups on a lawsuit stemming from the 2000 presidential election also tightens rules on how voters can be removed from the rolls in the future.?

............

''If there's a settlement, they're acknowledging there was injury,'' said David Bositis, analyst with the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies in Washington, who specializes in interests of black citizens, including civil rights litigation. ``In these cases no one has ever done anything wrong and theres's no admission of guilt.''

Bositis said the settlement offered the state a `strategic retreat.''

''When you have an untenable position, you're trying to defend to a position you can defend,'' he said. ``A strategic retreat is considered a success, but it's not as good as winning.''

[kenwoodallpromos]

Either the bad purge list proves we need cradle to grave government instead of relying of the private sector, or the Democrats need candidates with easier names to figure out than Ferraro, Dukakis, Lieberman, Cusinich(?).
Demos win with names like Clinton/Gore (of course that is because a lot of Republicans voted for Perot to give the French a break).

[schweitz]

Originally posted by hcap
schweitz,

I post the findings of the The U.S. Commission on Civil Rights

" This disenfranchisement of Florida voters fell most harshly on the shoulders of African Americans. Statewide, based on county-level statistical estimates, African American voters were nearly 10 times more likely than white voters to have their ballots rejected in the November 2000 election."

And

"The Impact of the Purge List on Persons of Color
"Findings....

*

The state of Florida’s statutorily mandated purge list, compiled by a private firm, was provided to county supervisors of elections with names that were inexact matches. The data provided demonstrated that this list had at least a 14.1 percent error rate.
*

African Americans had a significantly greater chance of being listed on Florida’s mandated purge list. The probability of names of African Americans appearing on the list in error was significantly greater than the likelihood of the names of whites being erroneously included on the purge list.
*

The state of Florida’s use of this purge list, combined with the state law that places the burden on voters to remove themselves from the list, resulted in denying countless African Americans the right to vote.


You post an article by ONE of the members of the Commission-Peter Kirsanow- for the National Review, not exactly the most objective journal in this debate. He might have been part of the minority report, if there was one. Do you know?
His OPINION after the fact does not alter the conclusions of the commission

Do you have any other evidence that the Commissions report was incorrect?
Btw, I posted other stuff supporting my view. And as far as me being patheticI guess in liew of the facts I posted, you have no intelligent reply, other than demeaning the messenger.

Hcap,

What I challenged was your statement that " Jeb played with the votes in 2000". Where is your proof of that?

Since 1868 it has been illegal for felons to vote in Florida.

Please post the link on the Commissions findings so I can read the findings in context--(having your ballot rejected means you cast a ballot in the first place and were not purged)

From the Miami Herald 12-1-00:

445 felons voted illegally in the 2000 election. The tainted votes were found in a review of 12 counties---statewide this could mean 3750 votes---the votes were 75% democratic. These votes were counted in the 2000 election.
In Democratic Palm Beach County they refused to purge felons from their voter list as required by state law.

[Tom]

The attendants must be on strike!:D :eek:

[hcap]

schweitz,

Executive sumary

http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/exesum.htm

Chapter 9: Findings and Recommendations

http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/ch9.htm

And here is the disenting or "minority repor"t I questioned you about. I found it. If you insist on taking it as the main body of the report, as perhaps your national review article evidently proposes, it is out of context.

http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/dissent.htm


Also see
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4137694,00.html
http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/2002/11/04_Palast.html

[Tom]

You need to let go......learn to live with the fact that the system worked, Bush won, things are going good considering 9-11-01 took place, and you new saviour is a lying idiot.
You will be happier in the long run. Sit back, enjoy the ride.:D

[schweitz]

Originally posted by hcap
[B]schweitz,

Executive sumary

http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/exesum.htm


From the report: "This report does not find that the highest officials of the state conspired to disenfranchise voters", and in fact commends Gov. Bush.

As far as the purge list and the finding of more African Americans purged based on population ratio--this is true---however African Americans make up 49% of felons in Florida so naturally they would have a much higher percentage.

Like I said: Your statement that "Jeb played with the votes in the 2000 election" is false.

[trotter]

57,700 "ex-felons," who are prohibited from voting by state law, to be removed from voter rolls. (In the thirty-five states where former felons can vote, roughly 90 percent vote Democratic.)roughly 90 percent vote Democratic.)

...and I thought it was 100% of the felons but I'll go with your number.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by trotter
57,700 "ex-felons," who are prohibited from voting by state law, to be removed from voter rolls. (In the thirty-five states where former felons can vote, roughly 90 percent vote Democratic.)roughly 90 percent vote Democratic.)

...and I thought it was 100% of the felons but I'll go with your number.

WOW! All the while I thought I was arresting Felony offenders.....................and they were just democrats! :D

[Tom]

After reading this thread, it occurred to me that there are people, who, after having sex with their wives, call the neighbors on the phone to find out how it was.:rolleyes:

[ponyplayer]

What's the big friggin deal anyway? Felons/ex-felons should not be allowed to vote...all those states where they are allowed are probably controlled by the Democrats, that's why they allow it.

[Tom]

Originally posted by ponyplayer
What's the big friggin deal anyway? Felons/ex-felons should not be allowed to vote...all those states where they are allowed are probably controlled by the Democrats, that's why they allow it.

It wouldn't look good if the incumbent were not allowed to vote because he was a felon!:eek:

[kenwoodallpromos]

1- All crimianls vote
2- All children over 5 yrs vote
3- All illegals vote
4- All persons with IQ's higher than Bush's vote
5- Peta gets all pets to vote
6- Sierra Club gets all trees to vote; and most important-

Lying war criminals like Kerry get all Demos and Peaceniks to vote for their own party. Good Luck. LOL.

[ponyplayer]

Tom, good thinking...lol. :D

[hcap]

Registration required
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/9398054.htm?&ERIGHTS=-747616432341275926miami::kos@dailykos.com&KRD_RM=9pprtqqxryysywrsttpypppppp|daily|N
Excerpt.....
Posted on Sat, Aug. 14, 2004

2004 ELECTIONS

State ceases felon voting purge

Florida asks 14 election supervisors to tell voters they may still be eligible to vote, even if they got a letter saying they were on a list of potential felons.

BY GARY FINEOUT AND MARC CAPUTO

TALLAHASSEE - In an effort to clean up one of its most notable and damaging messes, the state asked election supervisors Friday to abandon efforts to purge many potential felons from the voting rolls.

Dawn Roberts, director of the Division of Elections, sent a letter to all 67 counties telling them to deny voters the right to cast ballots ``only if you have independently confirmed that the person is a felon who has not had their civil rights restored.''

The letter, released late in the day as a hurricane ravaged the state, follows mediation sessions between the state and the New York-based Brennan Center for Justice, which alleged that Florida violated federal and state voting rights law by using a flawed list of 48,000 potential felons.

[delayjf]

Hcap,

Good article on this in Sundays Orange County register. At least three major newspagers including the NY times (hardly conservative) and the USA today did an extensive study and found nothing. But, Al Sharpton keeps making the claims and stirring up the controversy and people who want to believe it, do.

[Tom]

Originally posted by delayjf
Hcap,

Good article on this in Sundays Orange County register. At least three major newspagers including the NY times (hardly conservative) and the USA today did an extensive study and found nothing. But, Al Sharpton keeps making the claims and stirring up the controversy and people who want to believe it, do.

Speaking of ole Al.....what ever happened to Twana Brawly - you remeber her, the one ole Al was lying to the press about -being a racial rabble rouser trying to cause problems? Whatever happened to her?