50+ dead in mass shooting - Las Vegas

[DSB]

Saw on TV this morning. Details sketchy at this time. Gunman with assault rifle opened up from 32nd floor the Mandalay Bay hotel. Gunman identified as Stephen Paddock - a local resident.

Gunman 64 yo was taken down and killed by police.

[barahona44]

Heard some of the video when the assault began, it sounded like a jackhammer going off.When he ran out of ammunition he would reload and start again.I'm amazed there weren't more casualities with 40,000 people in a confined area.

[Clocker]

Extensive coverage here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4939872/Active-shooter-reported-Las-Vegas-Mandalay-Bay-Resort.html

[Augenj]

Too far away for me to hear the shots. What a POS. :mad:

[Fager Fan]

Terrible news to wake up to.

There was a time where people in this country didn't randomly massacre people. The only thing we can know for sure about these murderers is they aren't worried about their soul.

[PaceAdvantage]

My guess is that this was another nutty left wing terrorist who was going to kill himself a bunch of redneck, Christian, racist Trump supporters at this country music festival...but that's just a guess.

[Fager Fan]

My guess is that this was another nutty left winger who was going to kill himself a bunch of redneck, Christian, racist Trump supporters at this country music festival...but that's just a guess.

I've wondered. Selected to kill a bunch of country music fans. Too soon to say, but that's the group who as a whole are patriotic, Christian, white.

[Fager Fan]

PS: The NFL better be having some serious talks and telling their players they better not have a protest tonight.

[Inner Dirt]

Terrible news to wake up to.

There was a time where people in this country didn't randomly massacre people. The only thing we can know for sure about these murderers is they aren't worried about their soul.


It does appear the body count on these mass shootings has continued to increase over the last couple decades. I would be curious as to why. You can't blame the weaponry as clip fed semi-automatic rifles have been around for over 100 years and the 100 round drums go back to the Roaring 20's.

[PaceAdvantage]

A total disregard for the value of human life seems to have increased among the general public in the past few decades. Discuss among yourselves why this might be so...

[Dahoss9698]

My guess is that this was another nutty left wing terrorist who was going to kill himself a bunch of redneck, Christian, racist Trump supporters at this country music festival...but that's just a guess.

Yeah....you don't incite the troops here. Not at all. :rolleyes:

But thank you for proving once again....EVERYTHING in PA off topic has to be left vs right.

You even managed to get the troops to connect the NFL protests and gun control as well. And I thought I was the best troll here. Well done :ThmbUp:

[Dahoss9698]

A total disregard for the value of human life seems to have increased among the general public in the past few decades. Discuss among yourselves why this might be so...

You got them going....now you're stoking the fire. Take a bow.

[PaceAdvantage]

We already saw a left wing nut try and take out a bunch of (R) Congressmen...the precedent has been set.

But we don't talk about that guy as much because that doesn't further the agenda.

[PaceAdvantage]

Yeah....you don't incite the troops here. Not at all. :rolleyes:

But thank you for proving once again....EVERYTHING in PA off topic has to be left vs right.

You even managed to get the troops to connect the NFL protests and gun control as well. And I thought I was the best troll here. Well done :ThmbUp:no, you are the best troll on here...this post proves it right here.

[Saratoga_Mike]

My guess is that this was another nutty left wing terrorist who was going to kill himself a bunch of redneck, Christian, racist Trump supporters at this country music festival...but that's just a guess.

Classy post. You should be proud of yourself. Of course hell would freeze over before you ever admitted an error in judgment, so start digging in.

[PaceAdvantage]

Classy post. You should be proud of yourself. Of course hell would freeze over before you ever admitted an error in judgment, so start digging in.I really couldn't give two ****s what you think about me. I'll post whatever the **** I want on my ****ing website.

Classy enough for you now?

[Dahoss9698]

no, you are the best troll on here...this post proves it right here.

Please....I bow to your excellence. It's probably time for you to remind us all about how long this site has been up, etc.

[PaceAdvantage]

Please....I bow to your excellence. It's probably time for you to remind us all about how long this site has been up, etc.Jealous?

[Dahoss9698]

Jealous?

What would I be jealous of?

[PaceAdvantage]

Shooter's brother says he knows of no political or religious affiliations...report circulating that ISIS is claiming this and that this guy was a recent convert...I think that's BS.

There's a reason for everything...

Maybe I should take back what I wrote...after all, only redneck, racist Trump supporters carry around that kind of artillery...right?

[PaceAdvantage]

What would I be jealous of?So then stop acting like it...

[Dahoss9698]

Shooter's brother says he knows of no political or religious affiliations...report circulating that ISIS is claiming this and that this guy was a recent convert...I think that's BS.

There's a reason for everything...

Maybe I should take back what I wrote...after all, only redneck, racist Trump supporters carry around that kind of artillery...right?

Stir that pot. Once the majority of the people that post here wake up from their first nap they'll defend you. Don't worry.

[PaceAdvantage]

What do you propose? We all sit here and hold hands and recite from Psalms?

It's an off-topic message board...where people tend to discuss headlines from the day...this is a pretty big headline. This is what happens here...if you don't like it, you don't have to keep coming back.

You can join the millions of people who have left here because it's such a right wing cesspool.

[Dahoss9698]

So then stop acting like it...

:lol::lol::lol:

[Fager Fan]

PA has nothing to apologize for. You all should back off.

There was some kind of reason and logic in this killer's mind to explain why he chose to do what he did. Looking at the available evidence is logical for those piecing together why he did this.

[jms62]

PS: The NFL better be having some serious talks and telling their players they better not have a protest tonight.

PS:

Yesterday you called those who criticized Trumps callous comments towards the mayor of San Juan as "despicable" Today you come on here and use the deaths of 50+ people at the hands of a madman to further push your agenda against freedom of speech. How the hell can you rationalize this?

[PaceAdvantage]

Facts are dribbling in...he had a hunting and fishing license and used to live in Texas...my left-wing notion is looking dumber and dumber as the minutes pass.

He was also, it seems, a pretty avid gambler...hey, maybe he was one of the right-wing racist cesspool posters here on PA...wouldn't that be a kick in the nads?

Old, angry, white guy...

[Dahoss9698]

PA has nothing to apologize for. You all should back off.

There was some kind of reason and logic in this killer's mind to explain why he chose to do what he did. Looking at the available evidence is logical for those piecing together why he did this.

:lol::lol::lol:

[thaskalos]

Facts are dribbling in...he had a hunting and fishing license and used to live in Texas...my left-wing notion is looking dumber and dumber as the minutes pass.


You should have known that your "left-wing notion" was dumb...when you saw Fager Fan agreeing with it.

[Fager Fan]

You should have known that your "left-wing notion" was dumb...when you saw Fager Fan agreeing with it.

The 3 stooges, providing their usual stupidity.

[PaceAdvantage]

The 3 stooges, providing their usual stupidity.Name calling again.

[thaskalos]

The 3 stooges, providing their usual stupidity.

We should take after you. Pictures of bodies laying on the ground covered in blood get posted all over the place...and the first thing on your mind is the NFL players' protest tonight.

What a moron you've revealed yourself to be.

[thaskalos]

Name calling again.

What...we should sit here holding hands...and reciting the Psalms?

[Fager Fan]

PS:

Yesterday you called those who criticized Trumps callous comments towards the mayor of San Juan as "despicable" Today you come on here and use the deaths of 50+ people at the hands of a madman to further push your agenda against freedom of speech. How the hell can you rationalize this?

It's called being a rational human being. If you don't think that on a day where the flag is being flown half-staff, that the NFL heads are NOT going to have a talk about what better or better not happen tonight, then you're just oblivious. The NFL already sent out a memo over the weekend reminding of their rules, which proceeded to be broken on Sunday. They know the reaction to any kind of protest to the flag/anthem tonight would reach a new level of outrage. So yes, they will be having a serious discussion about this today, as they should.

[PaceAdvantage]

What...we should sit here holding hands...and reciting the Psalms?Absolutely not...just pointing out to Fager Fan that his hands are as dirty as those he complains about...

[thaskalos]

Absolutely not...just pointing out to Fager Fan that his hands are as dirty as those he complains about...

Dirtier, I say.

[Fager Fan]

We should take after you. Pictures of bodies laying on the ground covered in blood get posted all over the place...and the first thing on your mind is the NFL players' protest tonight.

What a moron you've revealed yourself to be.

I can walk and chew gum at the same time. I doubt you could figure out how to
chew gum.

[jms62]

It's called being a rational human being. If you don't think that on a day where the flag is being flown half-staff, that the NFL heads are NOT going to have a talk about what better or better not happen tonight, then you're just oblivious. The NFL already sent out a memo over the weekend reminding of their rules, which proceeded to be broken on Sunday. They know the reaction to any kind of protest to the flag/anthem tonight would reach a new level of outrage. So yes, they will be having a serious discussion about this today, as they should.

Disgraceful and despicable.. Double down on it why don't you.

[Fager Fan]

Absolutely not...just pointing out to Fager Fan that his hands are as dirty as those he complains about...

I fight back, if you haven't noticed. In every court of law, fighting back is legally ok, so you may want to practice that here. Who took the first shot?

[elysiantraveller]

Holy ****.

Ya'll on tilt again...

We blaming anti-trumpers for a shooting spree and then trying to transition into the NFL issue... again.

Lordy, Lordy, Lordy... we do need some Psalms and I'm an atheist.

If there was any doubt this board was alt-right its quickly being erased. Everything on here is Us vs. THEM.

Kumbaya my peeps... Kumbaya

[thaskalos]

Disgraceful and despicable..

Typical, I say...considering the source.

[jms62]

I fight back, if you haven't noticed. In every court of law, fighting back is legally ok, so you may want to practice that here. Who took the first shot?

In my case you did.

[PaceAdvantage]

If there was any doubt this board was alt-right its quickly being erased. Everything on here is Us vs. THEM.Funny stuff. As if "alt-right" has a stranglehold on the US vs THEM stuff.

Where were you the last, I don't know...17 or 18 years? The Democrats (alt-left?) basically INVENTED this during the Bush years...

Strange days...

[Fager Fan]

Disgraceful and despicable.. Double down on it why don't you.

Yes, I sure did. I segued from this tragedy to what had been the "big news" prior and how it will effect that. Big freaking deal. I didn't even say anything bad about either side, but instead just mentioned talks that will surely happen today. And you make this a big deal, because you and your two sidekicks look to criticize anything I say. That's how the three of you get your jollies.

[elysiantraveller]

Funny stuff. As if "alt-right" has a stranglehold on the US vs THEM stuff.

Where were you the last, I don't know...17 or 18 years? The Democrats (alt-left?) basically INVENTED this during the Bush years...

Strange days...

Two sides to every coin... noticed you didn't deny it.

[jms62]

Yes, I sure did. I segued from this tragedy to what had been the "big news" prior and how it will effect that. Big freaking deal. I didn't even say anything bad about either side, but instead just mentioned talks that will surely happen today. And you make this a big deal, because you and your two sidekicks look to criticize anything I say. That's how the three of you get your jollies.

Oh the "WOE IS ME" act again. What you are doing is beyond despicable and yet you still defend it. What is worse people criticizing Trump for his callous remarks to the mayor of San Juan whose city and people where nearly wiped off the map OR you hijacking a thread talking about the biggest mass shooting in the history of the United States to further your agenda against freedom of speech. Which is Worse?

[PaceAdvantage]

Two sides to every coin... noticed you didn't deny it.You and people like you like to paint this board as something unique or something that happens only within the vacuum of www.paceadvantage.com

I can assure you, not only isn't it unique, but the real world out there is about 1,000x worse than anything that goes on here. In fact, twitter, facebook, and most if not all of the "comment sections (if they even still exist, since many have been taken down)" on the major news websites are a million times worse than what goes down on here.

So I'm not sure what there is to deny. This is a pretty good place to discuss world events without things getting too out of hand.

Meanwhile, you're sitting there trying to say that off-topic is some kind of extreme outlier...I'll DENY THAT until the cows come home, because it's dead wrong.

[thaskalos]

I really couldn't give two ****s what you think about me. I'll post whatever the **** I want on my ****ing website.

Classy enough for you now?

Are we allowed to respond in this manner too...or is this posting style reserved strictly for the owner of this site?

[PaceAdvantage]

Are we allowed to respond in this manner too...or is this posting style reserved strictly for the owner of this site?You can do it once in a blue moon...I can do it anytime I like, which isn't too often, as you know.

[Fager Fan]

Oh the "WOE IS ME" act again. What you are doing is beyond despicable and yet you still defend it. What is worse people criticizing Trump for his callous remarks to the mayor of San Juan whose city and people where nearly wiped off the map OR you hijacking a thread talking about the biggest mass shooting in the history of the United States to further your agenda against freedom of speech. Which is Worse?

Jms, there was nothing wrong with what I wrote, and I couldn't give two sh*** if you think differently.

[PaceAdvantage]

That's the spirit! :ThmbUp:

[jms62]

Jms, there was nothing wrong with what I wrote, and I couldn't give two sh*** if you think differently.

If you didn't give a shit then you never would have replied once nor would you have doubled or tripled down on your original post. That's fine. I am pretty sure nearly everyone reading this thread is totally disgusted by what you did here. If your stock could actually fall any further I think you had a huge GAP DOWN this morning.

[Clocker]

And the winner of the award for stupidity while politicizing this tragedy is: Hillary Clinton!

"The crowd fled at the sound of gunshots," Clinton tweeted. "Imagine the deaths if the shooter had a silencer, which the NRA wants to make easier to get." Imagine the deaths if the shooter had a phaser or a photon torpedo. :eek:

[Fager Fan]

If you didn't give a shit then you never would have replied once nor would you have doubled or tripled down on your original post. That's fine. I am pretty sure nearly everyone reading this thread is totally disgusted by what you did here. If your stock could actually fall any further I think you had a huge GAP DOWN this morning.

Replying doesn't equate to caring.

[Fager Fan]

And the winner of the award for stupidity while politicizing this tragedy is: Hillary Clinton!

Imagine the deaths if the shooter had a phaser or a photon torpedo. :eek:

They were fish in a barrel regardless if they were moving or running given the trajectory of the shootings.

[jms62]

Replying doesn't equate to caring.

LOL. You care very very much. No one is buying the act..

[woodtoo]

The Asian female girlfriend will be key, when questioned.

[woodtoo]

And the winner of the award for stupidity while politicizing this tragedy is: Hillary Clinton!

Imagine the deaths if the shooter had a phaser or a photon torpedo. :eek:

Please go away Oh Crooked one, it is you who needs silencing!!!:rant:

[mostpost]

My guess is that this was another nutty left wing terrorist who was going to kill himself a bunch of redneck, Christian, racist Trump supporters at this country music festival...but that's just a guess.

Yeah, that's the most likely scenario; that a guy from rural Nevada is a nutty left wing terroist. Are you nuts. He picked the venue because it was where he could do the most damage.

[PaceAdvantage]

Yeah, that's the most likely scenario; that a guy from rural Nevada is a nutty left wing terroist. Are you nuts. He picked the venue because it was where he could do the most damage.(Borrowing a page from ely)

So you don't deny the crowd was packed with redneck, right-wing, Christian, racist Trump supporters?

[FantasticDan]

(Borrowing a page from ely)

So you don't deny the crowd was packed with redneck, right-wing, Christian, racist Trump supporters?Haven't you humiliated yourself enough in this thread?

You know what he meant.

[mostpost]

(Borrowing a page from ely)

So you don't deny the crowd was packed with redneck, right-wing, Christian, racist Trump supporters?

You're stereotyping. I enjoy country music and I am not a redneck, right wing, or racist. I am Christian, although not in the sense you are using the term.

[jimmyb]

For a society that's made tremendous strides in technology, we have not made the same progress in the psychological or spiritual realm. The value of human life is sadly not on the front burner. 100's of millions of people killed by other humans in the 20th century alone. Top to bottom, governments and individually, the hate and the taste for blood is mind boggling.

[PaceAdvantage]

Haven't you humiliated yourself enough in this thread?

You know what he meant.Like I said before, funny stuff. *I* (supposedly, according to you) know what he meant, but nobody ever seems to know what *I* mean when I post...

You guys should go into a career of comedy.

[OntheRail]

The Asian female girlfriend will be key, when questioned.

Truly a Horrific act... against freedom. Barbaric... the blame in part belongs to Un-Social Media that vilifies and inflames... then praise the action of unruliness.

Yes woodtoo considering the report of a 5' women at the Country Music Concert was ejected from it for making claims that you people where going to die.. His girlfriend is 4'11".

I know it's Vegas but what are the Odds.

[Clocker]

Predictably, the Dems are in heavy competition to see who can take the lead to demonize and ban guns.

Elizabeth Warren gets really serious and drops the C-bomb (C as in conversation). :eek:

Tragedies like Las Vegas have happened too many times. We need to have the conversation about how to stop gun violence. We need it NOW.http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/353421-dems-renew-calls-for-gun-restrictions-in-wake-of-las-vegas-shooting

[PaceAdvantage]

I am Christian, although not in the sense you are using the term.Say what? I didn't realize (outside of denomination) that there were ambiguous meanings of being a Christian, floating around out there...

[Marshall Bennett]

This is why I often shy away from many of these threads. By the time I get to it, its veered off into the same shit found in other threads.
I thought at one time here personal attacks and name calling was prohibited. I can understand 1 occasionally, but seems its the same members doing it over and over, day in and day out. Becomes more of an internet chatroom at times.

[Fager Fan]

Truly a Horrific act... against freedom. Barbaric... the blame in part belongs to Un-Social Media that vilifies and inflames... then praise the action of unruliness.

Yes woodtoo considering the report of a 5' women at the Country Music Concert was ejected from it for making claims that you people where going to die.. His girlfriend is 4'11".

I know it's Vegas but what are the Odds.

That's interesting. I thought I heard earlier that they'd found and questioned the roommate, that she was out of the country, and wasn't considered an accomplice at this time.

[PaceAdvantage]

Fog of war...by the time they scrub everything, we'll get the sanitized version of what really happened...but the truth is out there somewhere in these reports that come out during the first few hours after events like these, before they have time to craft the proper narrative.

[Clocker]

Yes woodtoo considering the report of a 5' women at the Country Music Concert was ejected from it for making claims that you people where going to die.. His girlfriend is 4'11".

I know it's Vegas but what are the Odds.
...

Investigators are now raiding Paddock's home in a retirement community in Mesquite, which he shared with a woman named Marilou Danley. Danley was initially called a person of interest in the shooting, but police no longer believe she was involved after contacting her early Monday morning and finding her out of the country.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4939872/Active-shooter-reported-Las-Vegas-Mandalay-Bay-Resort.html#ixzz4uMxlFyix

[woodtoo]

Truly a Horrific act... against freedom. Barbaric... the blame in part belongs to Un-Social Media that vilifies and inflames... then praise the action of unruliness.

Yes woodtoo considering the report of a 5' women at the Country Music Concert was ejected from it for making claims that you people where going to die.. His girlfriend is 4'11".

I know it's Vegas but what are the Odds.
Hadn't heard about the ejection from venue. Very odd indeed. :confused:

[woodtoo]

Heard he checked in with her ID Marylou Danley and she worked there.

[Parkview_Pirate]

Heard he checked in with her ID Marylou Danley and she worked there.

There's already reports she was "out of country" and no longer a person of interest.

It sure didn't take long for the "fog of war" to kick in, and it shouldn't be long before it's labeled a false flag attack for some reason. FWIW, it sounds like a total psychotic break - hard to believe there weren't some warning signs.

What is rather unusual is that a fully automatic weapon was used. According to Paddock's brother, he was not a "gun collector", but he did live in an upscale retirement community. So, perhaps he could afford all the licensing associated with fully automatic weapons - or, he could have illegally modified some semi-automatic weapons, in which case his actions would not have been prevented by the usual gun control laws proposed by that side of the issue....

[ElKabong]

Facts are dribbling in...he had a hunting and fishing license and used to live in Texas...my left-wing notion is looking dumber and dumber as the minutes pass.

He was also, it seems, a pretty avid gambler...hey, maybe he was one of the right-wing racist cesspool posters here on PA...wouldn't that be a kick in the nads?

Old, angry, white guy...

From what I've read he bounced around from Texas to California from the early 1990s to early 2000s, moved to Melbourne fla...moved to Nevada a few years ago.

Could be Falling Man Syndrome (movie from early 90s), Isis convert, or just something that went off in him. And I hope an autopsy is done. Can't rule out CTE, that rearranges ones personality later in life I've read.

[ElKabong]

And the winner of the award for stupidity while politicizing this tragedy is: Hillary Clinton!

Imagine the deaths if the shooter had a phaser or a photon torpedo. :eek:

Hilary's tweet is yet another reminder that the worse of the two candidates lost.

[elysiantraveller]

(Borrowing a page from ely)

So you don't deny the crowd was packed with redneck, right-wing, Christian, racist Trump supporters?

Huh...?

[BaffertsWig]

Reports I've read stated that he was an avid listener of country music, so I don't think the whole "targeting country music fans as they are typically conservative whites" was part of his MO. What's interesting is the ISIS recruitment video from May (?) encouraging attacks on Las Vegas... I doubt this guy had any involvement with ISIS, being an old white guy living in rural Nevada, just an eerie coincidence.

The part about the latina claiming everyone there was going to die tonight is very disturbing, I hope we hear more developments about that if in fact someone else had knowledge about what was to transpire.

I stayed up way past my bedtime last night listening to the police scanner, monitoring the reddit thread and watching a local live newsfeed. It's crazy how far behind local news media was, the address of the shooter was identified on the scanner and amateur investigators were able to name him hours before the media got wind of it. Why would they name Marilou Danley as a person of interest, potentially putting her in danger, at the 1:30am PST press conference (which allowed the public to easily identify Stephen Paddock) but refuse to identify the shooter? I thought that was pretty odd.

[PaceAdvantage]

Huh...?I get it...cute

[Clocker]

Blame it on Daddy.

The father of Las Vegas madman Stephen Paddock was a “psychopath” himself — a bank robber who escaped federal prison in the late 1960s and landed on the FBI’s most-wanted list, according to reports.

Paddock’s dad was serial felon Benjamin Hoskins Paddock, according to the Daily Mail and a tweet from NBC.

Benjamin Paddock had been locked up in 1960 for robbing an Arizona bank, escaped in 1968 and spent nearly three years on the run before the FBI caught up to him in Las Vegas in 1971, at which point he tried to run down an agent with his car, according to archival editions of the Tuscon Daily Citizen.

“Since he has utilized firearms in previous crimes, has employed violence in attempting to evade arrest and has been diagnosed as being psychopathic, [Benjamin] Paddock should be considered extremely dangerous,” Palmer M. Baken Jr., agent in charge of the Phoenix FBI office, said at the time, according to the Citizen.
http://nypost.com/2017/10/02/vegas-gunmans-psychopath-dad-landed-on-fbis-most-wanted-list/

[boxcar]

You're stereotyping. I enjoy country music and I am not a redneck, right wing, or racist. I am Christian, although not in the sense you are using the term.

You should pop over to the Religion thread some day and reveal to us the "sense" in which you think you are "Christian". :coffee:

[boxcar]

Say what? I didn't realize (outside of denomination) that there were ambiguous meanings of being a Christian, floating around out there...

:lol::lol::lol: You don't know the half of it.

[burnsy]

This is why I often shy away from many of these threads. By the time I get to it, its veered off into the same shit found in other threads.
I thought at one time here personal attacks and name calling was prohibited. I can understand 1 occasionally, but seems its the same members doing it over and over, day in and day out. Becomes more of an internet chatroom at times.


Of course it does. Unless this had been some ISIS or "global terrorist". It becomes liberal vs. conservative, Democrat vs. Republican and all the other happy horse shit. Gun control vs. the NRA. Let me just say, I have guns but I don't think every jack ass out there should have them cause this crap just gets old. Plus, the fact that kids get a hold of them and shoot each other. Every fool is not qualified to handle a fire arm. But some how its a "God Given Right" ..........:lol:

Speaking Of God, that's another angle these arguments usually take......My Pie in the Sky imaginary man (Santa Clause) is better than yours. Hell, that one sparks terrorism, genocide and most wars.


That about covers the depth of the arguments around here and around most of the world. Its a wonder the earth still exists. the way humans "think"......

[elysiantraveller]

I get it...cute

No... seriously. I don't understand what you're trying to say.

[Robert Fischer]

Doesn't always have to be some political 'cause'.

Sometimes, people just decide that it's their last day.



We do know he was 64 and his health/vitality was likely winding down, his (ex)wife was in the process of getting half of his resources through divorce proceedings, he was a gambling addict who likely lost most of his other resources to Vegas and was likely living above his means in a non-sustainable lifestyle.

Guy reached the end, and wasn't willing to go on in a much reduced lifestyle.

What we don't know, is why he decided to slaughter a bunch of people in the minutes before ending it. He must have been filled with hatred and anger.

Looks like he planned to go out this way, at least to the extent of gambling away the rest of his savings, securing an arsenal of weapons, and booking the room.

[thaskalos]

Doesn't always have to be some political 'cause'.

Sometimes, people just decide that it's their last day.



We do know he was 64 and his health/vitality was likely winding down, his (ex)wife was in the process of getting half of his resources through divorce proceedings, he was a gambling addict who likely lost most of his other resources to Vegas and was likely living above his means in a non-sustainable lifestyle.

Guy reached the end, and wasn't willing to go on in a much reduced lifestyle.

What we don't know, is why he decided to slaughter a bunch of people in the minutes before ending it. He must have been filled with hatred and anger.

Looks like he planned to go out this way, at least to the extent of gambling away the rest of his savings, securing an arsenal of weapons, and booking the room.

In post #3 of this thread...Clocker has supplied us with a photo of the murderous gunman; an "avid gambler"...who is still drinking even though he already appears sloshed out of his mind. Knowing how well avid gambling and persistent drinking mix...I am willing to venture a guess that he had already destroyed his financial life at the casino tables. And, since the malcontents of society always think that their misfortunes are caused by someone else...he decided to take his frustrations out on as many innocent people as he could find, before putting an end to his own miserable existence.

A shocking reminder of the sort of scum that walks unnoticed among us...without our knowing.

[Fager Fan]

Doesn't always have to be some political 'cause'.

Sometimes, people just decide that it's their last day.



We do know he was 64 and his health/vitality was likely winding down, his (ex)wife was in the process of getting half of his resources through divorce proceedings, he was a gambling addict who likely lost most of his other resources to Vegas and was likely living above his means in a non-sustainable lifestyle.

Guy reached the end, and wasn't willing to go on in a much reduced lifestyle.

What we don't know, is why he decided to slaughter a bunch of people in the minutes before ending it. He must have been filled with hatred and anger.

Looks like he planned to go out this way, at least to the extent of gambling away the rest of his savings, securing an arsenal of weapons, and booking the room.

Most people don't decide just because they're suicidal to take a bunch of innocents with them. When this does happen, usually they have a reason for striking out at that group. Since he was a big gambler, we might guess he was mad at a casino but the casino workers would've been that likely target.

One that didn't seem to aim for innocents was the pilot who committed suicide, and that seemed more of a case of not caring that if he crashed and died, so would many others.

I didn't hear he was in the midst of a divorce.

[ReplayRandall]

Stephen Paddock had been registered in that room since Thursday, under female roommate's credit card. How he managed to get 10 assault-style rifles and ammo in that room, on the 32nd floor is being critically analyzed by the FBI via the hotel surveillance cameras at Mandalay Bay......This was a meticulously carried out plan, with the room being acquired at a perfect vantage point for maximum field of fire on the upcoming concert. IMO, there's no way this was a mental "snap" breakdown. In the coming days, it will be interesting to see the facts come in of where Paddock was for over 6 months, the prior year. Also the timing of the female roommate being "out of the country", suggests this was a known "scheduled" attack......I'm sure there's much more to come on the real story here.

[PaceAdvantage]

Stephen Paddock had been registered in that room since Thursday, under female roommate's credit card. How he managed to get 10 assault-style rifles and ammo in that room, on the 32nd floor is being critically analyzed by the FBI via the hotel surveillance cameras at Mandalay Bay......This was a meticulously carried out plan, with the room being acquired at a perfect vantage point for maximum field of fire on the upcoming concert. IMO, there's no way this was a mental "snap" breakdown. In the coming days, it will be interesting to see the facts come in of where Paddock was for over 6 months, the prior year. Also the timing of the female roommate being "out of the country", suggests this was a known "scheduled" attack......I'm sure there's much more to come on the real story here.This is shaping up to be a much better theory then the one I came up with earlier.

[FantasticDan]

Stephen Paddock had been registered in that room since Thursday, under female roommate's credit card. How he managed to get 10 assault-style rifles and ammo in that room, on the 32nd floor is being critically analyzed by the FBI via the hotel surveillance cameras at Mandalay Bay......I don't get it. Do people who check into a huge Vegas hotel and roll a luggage cart loaded with large bags from the parking lot to the elevator typically have those bags questioned?

[upthecreek]

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/cbs-fires-legal-exec-las-vegas-1202578075/

[ReplayRandall]

I don't get it. Do people who check into a huge Vegas hotel and roll a luggage cart loaded with large bags from the parking lot to the elevator typically have those bags questioned?

How much do you think the guns and ammo weigh? Did Paddock load the cart(s) himself or did multiple bellhops help him? How did he lug that much heavy and expansive luggage into the hotel lobby in the first place?......I don't get how you don't get it Dan, but you are who you are.

[JustRalph]

This is shaping up to be a much better theory then the one I came up with earlier.

Video of the shooter at anti Trump rally going around

Not sure if it’s real or not

[thaskalos]

Video of the shooter at anti Trump rally going around

Not sure if it’s real or not

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkYeJOgHdUY

The proof is "real"...for those who WANT it to be.

[jms62]

How much do you think the guns and ammo weigh? Did Paddock load the cart(s) himself or did multiple bellhops help him? How did he lug that much heavy and expansive luggage into the hotel lobby in the first place?......I don't get how you don't get it Dan, but you are who you are.

I would think you would be able to get that much into Hard Case Golf Travel bag and would it be that much heavier than Golf Clubs?

[Marshall Bennett]

In 4 days time he could have easily made 10 or more trips taking one weapon at a time through the hotel. I don't see that as a big deal. The fact he was so heavily armed and prepared to kill hundreds is disturbing. Typically these lone gunmen do what damage they can with a single weapon. For a lone gunman to carry out such a highly orchestrated attack with that much ammunition seems suspicious. He doesn't particularly look that intelligent either, not that that always means anything.

[FantasticDan]

How much do you think the guns and ammo weigh? Did Paddock load the cart(s) himself or did multiple bellhops help him? How did he lug that much heavy and expansive luggage into the hotel lobby in the first place?......I don't get how you don't get it Dan, but you are who you are.
What don't I get? That YOU don't get how someone could get several large, heavy bags or containers up to his room w/out it being challenged?

Yeah, what a mystery.. :rolleyes:

[olddaddy]

The type of guns that were probably used weighed between 7-10 lbs. I heard that it was reported that hand guns were also part of the arsenal. Say he had 10 assault rifles. Thats two suitcases at 50lbs each. 50lbs of ammunition is a lot so thats another suitcase. Another case with handguns and whatever clothes he brought would make a grand total of 4 suitcases. He checks in stating his girl friend is coming later so 2 suitcases apiece is nothing that would draw suspicion.

[ReplayRandall]

What don't I get? That YOU don't get how someone could get several large, heavy bags or containers up to his room w/out it being challenged?

Yeah, what a mystery.. :rolleyes:

Yeah, Paddock is really going to take that risk lugging up all those rifles and rounds of ammo ALL AT ONCE....Put me back on IGNORE, will ya?....My back hurts having to stoop down to your level. Sometimes you come across as very dense, this is one of the times.

[ReplayRandall]

The type of guns that were probably used weighed between 7-10 lbs. I heard that it was reported that hand guns were also part of the arsenal. Say he had 10 assault rifles. Thats two suitcases at 50lbs each. 50lbs of ammunition is a lot so thats another suitcase. Another case with handguns and whatever clothes he brought would make a grand total of 4 suitcases. He checks in stating his girl friend is coming later so 2 suitcases apiece is nothing that would draw suspicion.

The ammo he fired for close to 10 minutes, alone would weigh over 100 lbs with no problem.....Quit being so obtuse or whatever you're trying to be.

[JustRalph]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkYeJOgHdUY

The proof is "real"...for those who WANT it to be.

Well, that’s the 2nd one I’ve seen. The first had him wearing one of those pussy hats.

I don’t know how you can tell.........

[olddaddy]

The ammo he fired for close to 10 minutes, alone would weigh over 100 lbs with no problem.....Quit being so obtuse or whatever you're trying to be.


And the guns may have weighed only 7 lbs. 4 suitcases could have carried all. If stating facts make me obtuse then thats what I am.

[Nutz and Boltz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkYeJOgHdUY

The proof is "real"...for those who WANT it to be.

Haters on both sides see what they want to see.

[PaceAdvantage]

And the guns may have weighed only 7 lbs. 4 suitcases could have carried all. If stating facts make me obtuse then thats what I am.50lbs is a VERY heavy bag...

[ReplayRandall]

And the guns may have weighed only 7 lbs. 4 suitcases could have carried all. If stating facts make me obtuse then thats what I am.

You're not even close to be "accidently" correct.....You are what you are.

[olddaddy]

50lbs is a VERY heavy bag...


Yea I know I got the scale at home when we go away because the airline only allows up to 50 pound bag. Im a cheapskate so my wife and I pack the one bag to close to 50 lbs to save on an extra bag fee. Its heavy but Im sure others do what I do.

[olddaddy]

You're not even close to be "accidently" correct.....You are what you are.


Thank you for the acknowledgement.

[wisconsin]

50lbs is a VERY heavy bag...


Anyone with a water softener can attest to the weight thing.

[elysiantraveller]

How much do you think the guns and ammo weigh? Did Paddock load the cart(s) himself or did multiple bellhops help him? How did he lug that much heavy and expansive luggage into the hotel lobby in the first place?......I don't get how you don't get it Dan, but you are who you are.

My lightweight one clocks in at just under 7.2 lbs dry.

[reckless]

Could anyone please tell me why it took the Las Vegas police or hotel security 1 hour 12 minutes from the initial 911 phone call to the discovery of the dead shooter?

[Clocker]

Yeah, Paddock is really going to take that risk lugging up all those rifles and rounds of ammo ALL AT ONCE....Put me back on IGNORE, will ya?....My back hurts having to stoop down to your level. Sometimes you come across as very dense, this is one of the times.

Why would he have to do it all at once? He was reportedly in that room for several days. Getting the guns and ammo into the room over that time frame would not be a major problem.

Las Vegas hotels regularly host conventions and sales meetings, with people coming in with large wheeled cases containing displays and signs. Rifles could also be carried in a large, fancy golf club bag, also on wheels. Assuming he was using AR-15 type weapons, a case of 1000 rounds of .223 ammo weighs about 30 pounds. It would be nothing to bring in 4000 or 5000 rounds of ammo in one of those big wheeled suitcases, the kind that has a pull out handle. Easy to carry in lots of it over the course of several days, making multiple trips.

[elysiantraveller]

You're not even close to be "accidently" correct.....You are what you are.

ARs are modular. You could easily fit 5-8 in any regular suitcase.

We will a know more in time but 2 or 3 suitcases would have been enough. They would have been heavy though.

[ReplayRandall]

Why would he have to do it all at once? He was reportedly in that room for several days. Getting the guns and ammo into the room over that time frame would not be a major problem.

Las Vegas hotels regularly host conventions and sales meetings, with people coming in with large wheeled cases containing displays and signs. Rifles could also be carried in a large, fancy golf club bag, also on wheels. Assuming he was using AR-15 type weapons, a case of 1000 rounds of .223 ammo weighs about 30 pounds. It would be nothing to bring in 4000 or 5000 rounds of ammo in one of those big wheeled suitcases, the kind that has a pull out handle. Easy to carry in lots of it over the course of several days, making multiple trips.

Stephen Paddock had been registered in that room since Thursday, under female roommate's credit card. How he managed to get 10 assault-style rifles and ammo in that room, on the 32nd floor is being critically analyzed by the FBI via the hotel surveillance cameras at Mandalay Bay......This was a meticulously carried out plan, with the room being acquired at a perfect vantage point for maximum field of fire on the upcoming concert. IMO, there's no way this was a mental "snap" breakdown. In the coming days, it will be interesting to see the facts come in of where Paddock was for over 6 months, the prior year. Also the timing of the female roommate being "out of the country", suggests this was a known "scheduled" attack......I'm sure there's much more to come on the real story here.

Clocker, you got the point I was making....Congrats.

[Jeff P]

Umm... hotel luggage cart?


-jp

.

[ReplayRandall]

More info coming out:

Now being reported that Las Vegas gunman Stephen Paddock rented two rooms facing different directions in the Mandalay Bay hotel.

http://www.newsweek.com/las-vegas-shooter-rented-two-rooms-premeditation-675906

[FantasticDan]

Yeah, Paddock is really going to take that risk lugging up all those rifles and rounds of ammo ALL AT ONCE....Put me back on IGNORE, will ya?....My back hurts having to stoop down to your level. Sometimes you come across as very dense, this is one of the times.Who said anything about all at once?

And why am I trying to have a reasonable conversation with such a ridiculous dumb-ass? :bang:

[barahona44]

Clocker, you got the point I was making....Congrats.

Exactly what was the difference between old daddy's theory and Clocker's?.They both said it could have easily have been done over a period of the four days Paddock was at the hotel. Yet Clocker gets your much sought after (in your mind that is ) approval and old daddy is "obtuse".

Rolls Royce avatar.

Yugo brain.

[PaceAdvantage]

Who said anything about all at once?

And why am I trying to have a reasonable conversation with such a ridiculous dumb-ass? :bang:Nice, you two...keep up the good work.

[ReplayRandall]

Exactly what was the difference between old daddy's theory and Clocker's?.They both said it could have easily have been done over a period of the four days Paddock was at the hotel. Yet Clocker gets your much sought after (in your mind that is ) approval and old daddy is "obtuse".

Rolls Royce avatar.

Yugo brain.

Your crushing reply has been noted.....Next.

[Augenj]

More info coming out:

Now being reported that Las Vegas gunman Stephen Paddock rented two rooms facing different directions in the Mandalay Bay hotel.

http://www.newsweek.com/las-vegas-shooter-rented-two-rooms-premeditation-675906
That aligns with the two windows I saw that were broken out pretty far apart with curtains hanging out of them.

[ReplayRandall]

I worked in Las Vegas for over 14 years, and still having many friends and contacts there. After many phone calls and conversations, this whole tragedy has had a very profound effect on me today. Therefore, to everyone I had any back and forths with in this thread, please except my sincere apologies as I'm not being fair to anyone, no matter the reason, I have no excuse.

Randall

[lamboguy]

I worked in Las Vegas for over 14 years, and still having many friends and contacts there. After many phone calls and conversations, this whole tragedy has had a very profound effect on me today. Therefore, to everyone I had any back and forths with in this thread, please except my sincere apologies as I'm not being fair to anyone, no matter the reason, I have no excuse.

Randallthis was a very horrific day. i can't fathom this thing happening in our country and it did.

i also live in Henderson between 1975 thru 1975, that was a pretty wild place back then and you always had to watch your back. living there back then was no picnic either. the place was the wild wild west and it was like being in the twi- light zone with some of the things that were going on in broad daylight.

[olddaddy]

Could anyone please tell me why it took the Las Vegas police or hotel security 1 hour 12 minutes from the initial 911 phone call to the discovery of the dead shooter?


One man who was actually in plain sight considering only 2 windows were out in the hotel. The hotel was totally accessible for authorities to reach his room. There are devices that can point authorities to where gun shots are coming from and I assume all police departments in large cities have these devices. Many questions will have to be answered .

[Fager Fan]

One man who was actually in plain sight considering only 2 windows were out in the hotel. The hotel was totally accessible for authorities to reach his room. There are devices that can point authorities to where gun shots are coming from and I assume all police departments in large cities have these devices. Many questions will have to be answered .

Could they tell at night the windows were shot out? They said it was the smoke alarm in his room going off helped them find him.

The hotel being heavy in camera usage means we're going to be seeing a lot of video of him in the coming days.

I've seen some pretty horrible memes being reported, pretty nasty twowards the left. Not cool even if it was true, which there's no evidence it is.

So he was a professional gambler. Maybe they were the fish in a barrel he would've had a harder time getting inside a casino, and his motive was to hurt Vegas itself.

[lefty359]

I live in Vegas and the news of this this morning has numbed me.
Time to pray for the victims and their family and friends...

[RunForTheRoses]

http://tribunist.com/news/cbs-attorney-no-sympathy-for-vegas-victims-because-country-music-fans-are-republican-gun-toters/?utm_source=CDH

[RunForTheRoses]

OK, fired but one wonders ow widespread that mindset is in mainstream news media.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-las-vegas-shooting-live-updates-cbs-fires-executive-for-deeply-1506969657-htmlstory.html

[olddaddy]

Could they tell at night the windows were shot out? They said it was the smoke alarm in his room going off helped them find him.




Every time I have been out there the hotel is totally illuminated. Im sure the police are equipped with binoculars but even without, the open windows should have been seen after they knew where the gunshots were coming from.

[Tom]

50lbs is a VERY heavy bag...

Around here, we call it "lunch."

[Tape Reader]

Guaranteed! This guy watched movies and videos glorifying violence.


Sue Hollywood, save the world!

[Augenj]

Every time I have been out there the hotel is totally illuminated. Im sure the police are equipped with binoculars but even without, the open windows should have been seen after they knew where the gunshots were coming from.
This is the image I saw earlier of the broken windows. They should have been highly visible.

[BaffertsWig]

This is the image I saw earlier of the broken windows. They should have been highly visible.


has anyone stayed there? any chance of those being adjacent rooms with the door in between that can be opened so he could run from room to room without going into the hallway?

[Fager Fan]

has anyone stayed there? any chance of those being adjacent rooms with the door in between that can be opened so he could run from room to room without going into the hallway?

They were reporting earlier that it's one room, a corner suite.

[RunForTheRoses]

This is the image I saw earlier of the broken windows. They should have been highly visible.

72 minutes seems like a long time, and he was dead when they finally got there.

[Augenj]

has anyone stayed there? any chance of those being adjacent rooms with the door in between that can be opened so he could run from room to room without going into the hallway?
I think this clip shows you the interior.
https://www.ksat.com/news/watch-video-shows-what-the-inside-of-a-suite-on-32nd-floor-of-mandalay-bay-looks-like

[Fager Fan]

Every time I have been out there the hotel is totally illuminated. Im sure the police are equipped with binoculars but even without, the open windows should have been seen after they knew where the gunshots were coming from.

I figure there must be a reason, though. Either with the illumination they couldn't see windows out, or they were having to canvas a lot of different buildings/areas, not sure the gunshots were coming from there. I don't know. Anyone have a photo of the building at night?

[lefty359]

Yeah, that's what I think, that this guy had a hard-on for Vegas and this concert presented a great soft target for him. Evil exists and is proliferating.
Please pray for the victims and heir friends and families. I live here and the news has numbed me.

[Tom]

I heard it was one room, and the windows were at about a 45 degree angle to each other. The rifle fire could be seen coming from the windows, I hear today.

This so similar to the Texas Clock Tower shooting in 1966, but on steroids. Being armed in this type of attack is no help. I hope this is not some kind of light bulb for others.

[dnlgfnk]

I figure there must be a reason, though. Either with the illumination they couldn't see windows out, or they were having to canvas a lot of different buildings/areas, not sure the gunshots were coming from there. I don't know. Anyone have a photo of the building at night?

http://www.businessinsider.com/las-vegas-shooting-mandalay-bay-photos-windows-smashed-2017-10

5th photo down...needle in a haystack.

[fast4522]

I hope this is not some kind of light bulb for others.

While it is not that rare, man being totally evil to man. It is a rare bird that says today I am going to die and take as many as I can with me. We are programmed via DNA to love life, and found that out on D Day that not all men find it easy to kill. Back to your point Tom, it shows soft targets that contain large numbers of people will become a huge problem once someone figures how not to die with the target.

[Fager Fan]

http://www.businessinsider.com/las-vegas-shooting-mandalay-bay-photos-windows-smashed-2017-10

5th photo down...needle in a haystack.

Thanks. I think that shows the broken windows might not have stuck out like a sore thumb as they do now, plus it gives a view that reminds of of the various views police had from the ground that night, different buildings and such.

[Hank]

TOO LATE....“I am convinced that if we are to get on the right side of the world revolution, we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values. We must rapidly begin the shift from a ‘thing-oriented’ society to a ‘person-oriented’ society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism and militarism are incapable of being conquered.
We are confronted with the fierce urgency of now. In this unfolding conundrum of life and history there is such a thing as being TOO LATE. " Martin Luther King

[RunForTheRoses]

TOO LATE....“I am convinced that if we are to get on the right side of the world revolution, we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values. We must rapidly begin the shift from a ‘thing-oriented’ society to a ‘person-oriented’ society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism and militarism are incapable of being conquered.
We are confronted with the fierce urgency of now. In this unfolding conundrum of life and history there is such a thing as being TOO LATE. " Martin Luther King

What a Douchebag! Really Hank? And to all the whiners kvetching about the lack of balance well here's your man. Circle jerk with Hank.

[barahona44]

TOO LATE....“I am convinced that if we are to get on the right side of the world revolution, we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values. We must rapidly begin the shift from a ‘thing-oriented’ society to a ‘person-oriented’ society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism and militarism are incapable of being conquered.
We are confronted with the fierce urgency of now. In this unfolding conundrum of life and history there is such a thing as being TOO LATE. " Martin Luther King

Exactly how neccessary or true is that thumbnail? The answer is neither.

Stop embarrassing yourself.You trivialize one of the most horrendous reigns of terror of the 20th century

[davew]

It seems like an awful lot for 1 person to do. Why would he need 2 windows out?

It reminds me of the movie Jack Reacher, where a person was expertly framed.

[Fager Fan]

TOO LATE....“I am convinced that if we are to get on the right side of the world revolution, we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values. We must rapidly begin the shift from a ‘thing-oriented’ society to a ‘person-oriented’ society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism and militarism are incapable of being conquered.
We are confronted with the fierce urgency of now. In this unfolding conundrum of life and history there is such a thing as being TOO LATE. " Martin Luther King

I commented about how horrible some memes have been today, pointing at liberals.

You just outdid them, so deserve equal recognition for being really horrible with that image.

[lefty359]

It seems like an awful lot for 1 person to do. Why would he need 2 windows out?

It reminds me of the movie Jack Reacher, where a person was expertly framed.
They were at 45 degree angles, giving him two different views of the crowd.
Evidently he took turns firing out of both of them.

[Clocker]

“I am convinced that if we are to get on the right side of the world revolution, we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values. We must rapidly begin the shift from a ‘thing-oriented’ society to a ‘person-oriented’ society. Martin Luther King

Liberal clap-trap. Sounds like Obama talking about being on the right side of history. Which, by coincidence, was always the side he was on.

The "thing-oriented" society, which is to say free market capitalism, is what pulled civilization out of the muck of slavery and feudalism, where a ruler and a few nobles owned everything, including the services of the common people.

King did good work. But without the progress of the "thing-oriented" society, he would never have had the freedom or the resources to do that work.

And what in the wide, wide world of sports has this got to do with some fruit cake on a murder spree?

[kingfin66]

I commented about how horrible some memes have been today, pointing at liberals.

You just outdid them, so deserve equal recognition for being really horrible with that image.

Of all the people to act self-righteous.:ThmbDown::rolleyes:

[Fager Fan]

Of all the people to act self-righteous.:ThmbDown::rolleyes:

The peanut gallery is heard from.

I challenge you to find one, just one, political meme I've ever posted on the forum.

Some of you guys sure feel threatened by me.

[Dahoss9698]

The peanut gallery is heard from.

I challenge you to find one, just one, political meme I've ever posted on the forum.

Some of you guys sure feel threatened by me.

Where did he say you posted any memes?

[Dahoss9698]

Some of you guys sure feel threatened by me.

:lol::lol::lol:

Thank you. I think we all needed a laugh after all of the bad news today.

[JustRalph]

https://twitter.com/MarklenKennedy/status/914964306415935488

Interesting vid

[Clocker]

Could someone post a picture of a meme? I have never seen one, and I am skeptical of their existence.

[Dahoss9698]

https://twitter.com/MarklenKennedy/status/914964306415935488

Interesting vid

I hate to be a conspiracy theorist but there is a lot not adding up with the narrative we are being fed. I saw this and another video that shows flashes coming from the 4th floor.

Who knows if we'll ever know the truth.

[ReplayRandall]

I hate to be a conspiracy theorist but there is a lot not adding up with the narrative we are being fed. I saw this and another video that shows flashes coming from the 4th floor.

Who knows if we'll ever know the truth.

Those windows are sealed shut( Actually panes of tinted glass, not windows).....There's no evidence of any other windows busted out except for the 2 on the 32nd floor.....Reflection of a flashing light off the window on 4th floor could come from anywhere. Sound of auto-rifle bursts coming from above at the same time.

[ReplayRandall]

Paddock brought "in excess of 10" suitcases to the hotel, Clark County Sheriff Joseph Lombardo said.
It was not immediately clear when Paddock began bringing those suitcases in, and his activity apparently went unnoticed. One reporter at the Monday afternoon briefing asked Lombardo from off-camera: "No one thought the wiser?"

Paddock had 23 firearms in his 32nd-floor hotel suite, along with thousands of rounds of ammunition.

http://www.businessinsider.com/las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock-timeline-2017-10?amp%3Butm_medium=referral

[Fager Fan]

Paddock brought "in excess of 10" suitcases to the hotel, Clark County Sheriff Joseph Lombardo said.
It was not immediately clear when Paddock began bringing those suitcases in, and his activity apparently went unnoticed. One reporter at the Monday afternoon briefing asked Lombardo from off-camera: "No one thought the wiser?"

Paddock had 23 firearms in his 32nd-floor hotel suite, along with thousands of rounds of ammunition.

http://www.businessinsider.com/las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock-timeline-2017-10?amp%3Butm_medium=referral

I heard earlier that they said staff had been in and out of his room but noticed nothing. That I have a difficult time believing. Is this the result of the mindset of "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas?"

They also said he "built a platform" to have a better angle. Maybe or maybe not that'd be noticed. Maybe it was just the coffee table pulled up to the window.

[JustRalph]

Those windows are sealed shut( Actually panes of tinted glass, not windows).....There's no evidence of any other windows busted out except for the 2 on the 32nd floor.....Reflection of a flashing light off the window on 4th floor could come from anywhere. Sound of auto-rifle bursts coming from above at the same time.

Good stuff.....thanks :ThmbUp:

[ReplayRandall]

I heard earlier that they said staff had been in and out of his room but noticed nothing. That I have a difficult time believing. Is this the result of the mindset of "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas?"

They also said he "built a platform" to have a better angle. Maybe or maybe not that'd be noticed. Maybe it was just the coffee table pulled up to the window.

It's my understanding that the Mandalay gives $20 vouchers per day for those who decline housekeeping services....I believe Paddock declined those services.

[Fager Fan]

It's my understanding that the Mandalay gives $20 vouchers per day for those who decline housekeeping services....I believe Paddock declined those services.

That's what I'd have thought, yet they said they'd been in and out of the room. Maybe it was erroneous reporting.

[FantasticDan]

It's my understanding that the Mandalay gives $20 vouchers per day for those who decline housekeeping services....I believe Paddock declined those services.
Or he just kept everything in cases and containers.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/las-vegas-shooting-shows-ease-weapons-hotels-50240846

"The Mandalay Bay in particular hosts three, four, five conventions a day and it's not unusual for guests to have containers in their room," Barth said. "It would not be the common practice for housekeepers to get into those containers while they're cleaning the room. And as a matter of fact it would be just the opposite. Housekeepers are trained to respect guests' privacy, to not interfere with their items."

[ReplayRandall]

Or he just kept everything in cases and containers.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/las-vegas-shooting-shows-ease-weapons-hotels-50240846

"The Mandalay Bay in particular hosts three, four, five conventions a day and it's not unusual for guests to have containers in their room," Barth said. "It would not be the common practice for housekeepers to get into those containers while they're cleaning the room. And as a matter of fact it would be just the opposite. Housekeepers are trained to respect guests' privacy, to not interfere with their items."

Good article giving another perspective of what might have happened...

[woodtoo]

I know 1 thing, he did NOT act alone!

[Clocker]

As usual, the actions of one nut job brings a bunch of other nut jobs out into the light.

Lena Dunham is apparently some kind of 3rd rate celebrity, and clearly incapable of rational thought.

Lena Dunham ✔ @lenadunham (https://twitter.com/lenadunham) No way not to politicize this tragedy. It's about gender & race as well as access to guns. Considering it random is comforting & dangerous.
5:45 PM - Oct 2, 2017 (https://twitter.com/lenadunham/status/914984591215038464)


1,887 1,887 Replies (https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=914984591215038464)
254 254 Retweets (https://twitter.com/intent/retweet?tweet_id=914984591215038464)
2,359 (https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=914984591215038464)


The professional gun grabbers were out in force, never letting a crisis go to waste. People got shot? Let's hold a press conference in front of the Capitol. Maybe raise some money while we are at it.

Gun-control advocate and former astronaut Mark Kelly, the husband of former Rep. Gabby Giffords (D-Ariz.), said on Capitol Hill today that President Trump’s message of “thoughts and prayers” for the families of the victims affected by the Las Vegas shooting is insufficient to stop gun violence.https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/2017/10/02/mark-kelly-politicizing-las-vegas-shooting-not-now/

And of course guns and violence always brings Nancy Pelosi into the spot light spouting her usual drivel about gun control laws aren't stopping violence so we need more gun control laws. Her solution? We need another Congressional committee, of course. And not just any committee, a "Select Committee". I think that's the congressional equivalent of double secret probation.

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/cnsnewscom-staff/pelosi-tells-ryan-its-moral-duty-create-special-congressional

[Nutz and Boltz]

I know 1 thing, he did NOT act alone!

Please expand on your comment, Sherlock.

[jms62]

Please expand on your comment, Sherlock.

Alex Jones boys have entered the fray.

[Clocker]

I know 1 thing, he did NOT act alone!

Must be true. Several people have reported seeing another shooter up on the grassy knoll. :eek:

[Dahoss9698]

As usual, the actions of one nut job brings a bunch of other nut jobs out into the light.

Lena Dunham is apparently some kind of 3rd rate celebrity, and clearly incapable of rational thought.

The professional gun grabbers were out in force, never letting a crisis go to waste. People got shot? Let's hold a press conference in front of the Capitol. Maybe raise some money while we are at it.

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/2017/10/02/mark-kelly-politicizing-las-vegas-shooting-not-now/

And of course guns and violence always brings Nancy Pelosi into the spot light spouting her usual drivel about gun control laws aren't stopping violence so we need more gun control laws. Her solution? We need another Congressional committee, of course. And not just any committee, a "Select Committee". I think that's the congressional equivalent of double secret probation.

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/cnsnewscom-staff/pelosi-tells-ryan-its-moral-duty-create-special-congressional

Serious question...why does anyone need access to automatic weapons? Why are people in favor of stricter gun laws nut jobs?

It seems like every year now we are seeing shootings like this. We've become so accepting of shootings because we love our guns. That seems kind of irrational to me.

[elysiantraveller]

Serious question...why does anyone need access to automatic weapons? Why are people in favor of stricter gun laws nut jobs?

It seems like every year now we are seeing shootings like this. We've become so accepting of shootings because we love our guns. That seems kind of irrational to me.

One problem is a lack of education on the subject. None of these weapons were automatic at least to my knowledge as they are "kinda sorta illegal." It appears he was bumpfiring.

[Dahoss9698]

One problem is a lack of education on the subject. None of these weapons were automatic at least to my knowledge as they are "kinda sorta illegal." It appears he was bumpfiring.

I thought they found an AK47 and AR 15.

[Dahoss9698]

Guns are clearly not my specialty...the rifles found were semi automatic...not automatic.

I'll rephrase my question...why does someone need a semi automatic rifle?

[Inner Dirt]

I thought they found an AK47 and AR 15.

You are confusing full auto with semi auto.

[elysiantraveller]

Guns are clearly not my specialty...the rifles found were semi automatic...not automatic.

I'll rephrase my question...why does someone need a semi automatic rifle?

I'll try and jump in before this devolves into a massive fringe argument for both sides with some examples.

I bird hunt primarily and occasionally deer hunt but I spend what amounts to weeks in the field with my dog and hundreds of miles every season. I bird hunt with a semi-automatic shotgun because Grouse are really effing fast and the ability to immediately follow-up an errant shot with one that connects is the difference many times on a hunt. Same goes for people that duck hunt and what have you. Semi-automatic rifles do the same when I'm shooting at coyotes, other nuisances, etc. I actually deer hunt with a AR that is chambered in a round much larger than the ones used in this shooting and I do it because its a very reliable and simple gun to use. Also because its modular I can simply pull two pins on it and change what type of gun it is by sticking a different upper on top of it.

There are serious advantages to semi-automatic weapons and honestly they aren't a new creation. The Browning A5 is a 100+ year old design and I have a couple dating back to 1934 and 1942 respectively.

A more intellectually honest discussion would be high capacity magazines and stuff but its really hard to legislate a piece of plastic.

[Valuist]

I see they found ammonium nitrate in Paddock's car. This is clearly not the actions of a guy who had a bad beat or two at the poker tables. This was in the works for awhile.

[boxcar]

Serious question...why does anyone need access to automatic weapons? Why are people in favor of stricter gun laws nut jobs?

It seems like every year now we are seeing shootings like this. We've become so accepting of shootings because we love our guns. That seems kind of irrational to me.

You're asking the wrong questions. Here are a few clues. Guns don't have a mind of their own. Guns aren't intelligent, moral entities. Guns don't have the capacity to make choices.

[woodtoo]

I see they found ammonium nitrate in Paddock's car. This is clearly not the actions of a guy who had a bad beat or two at the poker tables. This was in the works for awhile.

This guy didn't just "snap". Psychotic people do not have a lot of friends like he did.
Guns and such were not in his wheelhouse, he needed instruction to pull this off. The girlfriend in Japan, I still believe is key to this rich mans spree.

He sent tens of thousands of $ to Philippines recently.

[Clocker]

Serious question...why does anyone need access to automatic weapons? Why are people in favor of stricter gun laws nut jobs?



Part of the answer to the first question involves some nitpicking. An automatic weapon is one that keeps firing if you pull the trigger and don't release it. A semi-automatic weapon requires you to release the trigger and pull it again to fire another round. Many states prohibit civilian ownership of automatic weapons, and where they are legal, they require a special federal license and a federal tax, I think it is $200.

"Need" is an irrelevant concept in this context. Why does anyone "need" a car that can go over 100 mph? Semi-automatic weapons are not a "need", but they are a practical evolution of the technology, just as automotive technology has evolved, and many people prefer them for many reasons. Many of them are civilian applications of military technology. Many other things we use developed the same way. Once the technology is there, it is cheap and efficient to use it.

People in favor of stricter guns laws are reacting in a knee-jerk manner and not thinking clearly. The LV shooter did not break any gun control laws, and he did not do anything that would break any gun control laws currently proposed by anti-gun people. Most mass shooters in this country did not break any gun control laws. The few that did are proof that such laws are not effective.

And most people pushing for more laws have no clue what they are talking about. Hillary Clinton and others are using this crisis to politicize another gun control proposal, outlawing "silencers". There is no such thing as a silencer. There are sound suppressors. People who are familiar with them say that a suppressor on a weapon such as was used in LV reduce the sound to about the level of a jackhammer.

It seems like every year now we are seeing shootings like this. We've become so accepting of shootings because we love our guns. That seems kind of irrational to me.The majority of citizens are "accepting" of shootings because they know that more gun control laws will not prevent them, any more than Prohibition prevented people from drinking.

Yes, we have a lot more violent deaths here than in the "more civilized" countries in Europe. We also have a much higher rate of traffic deaths per capita. Culturally, we differ greatly from Europe in many regards, including guns and cars. Guns are part of our culture, past and present, and we still have many legitimate uses for them. They are here to stay.

Mass murders are not a gun issue, they are a mental health issue. And many of those in favor of banning guns find mental health to be a huge privacy issue that the government should not be involved with.

[Clocker]

I bird hunt primarily and occasionally deer hunt but I spend what amounts to weeks in the field with my dog and hundreds of miles every season.

Do you use a silencer on your deer rifle? One lib gun grabber said that hunters use silencers so that the deer won't hear the shot coming at it. I think he was implying that wasn't very sporting. :D

[Dahoss9698]

I'll try and jump in before this devolves into a massive fringe argument for both sides with some examples.

I bird hunt primarily and occasionally deer hunt but I spend what amounts to weeks in the field with my dog and hundreds of miles every season. I bird hunt with a semi-automatic shotgun because Grouse are really effing fast and the ability to immediately follow-up an errant shot with one that connects is the difference many times on a hunt. Same goes for people that duck hunt and what have you. Semi-automatic rifles do the same when I'm shooting at coyotes, other nuisances, etc. I actually deer hunt with a AR that is chambered in a round much larger than the ones used in this shooting and I do it because its a very reliable and simple gun to use. Also because its modular I can simply pull two pins on it and change what type of gun it is by sticking a different upper on top of it.

There are serious advantages to semi-automatic weapons and honestly they aren't a new creation. The Browning A5 is a 100+ year old design and I have a couple dating back to 1934 and 1942 respectively.

A more intellectually honest discussion would be high capacity magazines and stuff but its really hard to legislate a piece of plastic.

I know they're not a new creation and I think the discussion is a good one. I appreciate you explaining it further.

What I'm getting from your post is it makes it easier to hunt. You'd still hunt without semi automatic weapons. But it's easier with semi automatic guns?

[Clocker]

Guns and such were not in his wheelhouse

His brother says that he knows the guy had a gun safe in his house. The police said that they found another 19 guns in his house.

[Dahoss9698]

You're asking the wrong questions. Here are a few clues. Guns don't have a mind of their own. Guns aren't intelligent, moral entities. Guns don't have the capacity to make choices.

Right...a mentally unstable person was able to pass whatever check he needed to, to purchase guns that he had no business having.

Maybe it shouldn't be so easy to get a gun.

[FantasticDan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruYeBXudsds

[woodtoo]

His brother says that he knows the guy had a gun safe in his house. The police said that they found another 19 guns in his house.

When and where did he get those?

[Dahoss9698]

Part of the answer to the first question involves some nitpicking. An automatic weapon is one that keeps firing if you pull the trigger and don't release it. A semi-automatic weapon requires you to release the trigger and pull it again to fire another round. Many states prohibit civilian ownership of automatic weapons, and where they are legal, they require a special federal license and a federal tax, I think it is $200.

"Need" is an irrelevant concept in this context. Why does anyone "need" a car that can go over 100 mph? Semi-automatic weapons are not a "need", but they are a practical evolution of the technology, just as automotive technology has evolved, and many people prefer them for many reasons. Many of them are civilian applications of military technology. Many other things we use developed the same way. Once the technology is there, it is cheap and efficient to use it.

People in favor of stricter guns laws are reacting in a knee-jerk manner and not thinking clearly. The LV shooter did not break any gun control laws, and he did not do anything that would break any gun control laws currently proposed by anti-gun people. Most mass shooters in this country did not break any gun control laws. The few that did are proof that such laws are not effective.

And most people pushing for more laws have no clue what they are talking about. Hillary Clinton and others are using this crisis to politicize another gun control proposal, outlawing "silencers". There is no such thing as a silencer. There are sound suppressors. People who are familiar with them say that a suppressor on a weapon such as was used in LV reduce the sound to about the level of a jackhammer.

The majority of citizens are "accepting" of shootings because they know that more gun control laws will not prevent them, any more than Prohibition prevented people from drinking.

Yes, we have a lot more violent deaths here than in the "more civilized" countries in Europe. We also have a much higher rate of traffic deaths per capita. Culturally, we differ greatly from Europe in many regards, including guns and cars. Guns are part of our culture, past and present, and we still have many legitimate uses for them. They are here to stay.

Mass murders are not a gun issue, they are a mental health issue. And many of those in favor of banning guns find mental health to be a huge privacy issue that the government should not be involved with.

Appreciate the explanation. I don't see it as an all or nothing. I feel like people think those in favor of stricter gun laws want to take away their guns. It's not like that.

Maybe it should be harder to get a gun. Obviously we have a serious issue in this country with mental health. That's only going to continue to get worse.

[elysiantraveller]

Do you use a silencer on your deer rifle? One lib gun grabber said that hunters use silencers so that the deer won't hear the shot coming at it. I think he was implying that wasn't very sporting. :D

Haha!

There are very few real world perks to suppressors.

[elysiantraveller]

I know they're not a new creation and I think the discussion is a good one. I appreciate you explaining it further.

What I'm getting from your post is it makes it easier to hunt. You'd still hunt without semi automatic weapons. But it's easier with semi automatic guns?

I would and I see where you are going with this. The problem most have is then the slippery slope argument begins to get some steam. Say in a perfect world every Semi-Auto was removed from society the next thing a person is going to go for is a revolver, lever, or pump action gun... then the whole discussion begins anew.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... I feel like people think those in favor of stricter gun laws want to take away their guns. It's not like that.

...

Some of us just appreciate that there is still one Constitutionally granted right that citizens are still fighting for and defending. I have zero use for a gun and have never owned one, nor do I intend to. If I thought that these proposed laws were any sort of real solution it might be a little different but I don't see access to guns as the root problem to make the priority component to address when someone decides to kill fifty plus and try for hundreds more.

[Inner Dirt]

Do you use a silencer on your deer rifle? One lib gun grabber said that hunters use silencers so that the deer won't hear the shot coming at it. I think he was implying that wasn't very sporting. :D


If you would like to see deer hunting that isn't sporting you need to visit Beaverdam Virgina and the surrounding areas. First you never see fish and game people anywhere. I don't even know they exist. People use hunting dogs with GPS trackers on them. Even though it is against the rules to hunt using an ATV that is done also. You can use an ATV to recover a carcass only, they use them to track their dogs who are tracking deer.

The worst thing I have seen is there is a 5 acre patch of woods a couple miles from me with clearings on 3 sides. I have seen a half dozen hunters with two dogs a piece march north to south through that patch of woods in a skirmish line while a couple guys each sit out in the clearing on the east and west sides. 10 men and even more dogs against one deer + modern technology. After they bag one the whole group will go to the local country store and hang out in the parking lot with the deer spread out on a tailgate like they are so proud of their kill.

[Clocker]

When and where did he get those?

You are the one that said he didn't know anything about guns. When and where did you get that information? The immediate facts indicate otherwise.

[Dahoss9698]

I would and I see where you are going with this. The problem most have is then the slippery slope argument begins to get some steam. Say in a perfect world every Semi-Auto was removed from society the next thing a person is going to go for is a revolver, lever, or pump action gun... then the whole discussion begins anew.

Fair enough. Am I right that it's illegal to own automatic weapons but not illegal to buy something that can basically convert semi-auto to auto?

[Mulerider]

I know they're not a new creation and I think the discussion is a good one. I appreciate you explaining it further.

What I'm getting from your post is it makes it easier to hunt. You'd still hunt without semi automatic weapons. But it's easier with semi automatic guns?

Most modern semi-autos, whether rifles or shotguns, are gas-operated. Gas operated firearms, as a general rule, have much less felt recoil than other types of actions. That is an important consideration for a lot of people, like younger hunters and some women (admittedly a generalization there, but accurate nonetheless). Semi-autos are especially preferable for someone like myself who shoots around 10,000 12-gauge shotgun rounds annually. I could shoot an over/under at what I do, but I'd get pretty beaten up doing it, which would negatively affect my shooting.

A practical example: let's say you have a 14-year old deer hunter. He can choose between two deer rifles: a bolt-action .308 or a semi-auto .308. He can shoot the semi fairly comfortably. The bolt-action kicks the snot out of him, and he finds himself involuntarily flinching as he squeezes the trigger, anticipating the recoil. That involuntary flinch is enough to drastically affect the accuracy of his shot...and any ethical hunter strives for a quick, clean kill. In his case, he would wisely choose the semi.

[elysiantraveller]

Fair enough. Am I right that it's illegal to own automatic weapons but not illegal to buy something that can basically convert semi-auto to auto?

It gets weird...

You can actually own a Automatic Weapon in this country but it requires a ATF Background Check, Federal Tax Stamp, and you must purchase it through a Class III Firearms Dealer. The weapon must also be on the ATF Registry which means its made pre-1986 (I think that's the year) so there is a finite number of them out there. This drives up the cost. A M16A1 (AR 15 from the Vietnam Era) will run you a minimum of $12,000 and honestly if I had to head into battle I'd take my semi over one in a heartbeat.

The second part. Its HIGHLY illegal to convert a semi-auto. Its also very difficult as you would need to manufacture your own bolt carrier group, trigger group, and lower. It would require CNC Machinery, CAD, and a lot work. You would essentially have to manufacture your own firearm and that's where the legality issues come into play.

[Mulerider]

I would and I see where you are going with this. The problem most have is then the slippery slope argument begins to get some steam. Say in a perfect world every Semi-Auto was removed from society the next thing a person is going to go for is a revolver, lever, or pump action gun... then the whole discussion begins anew.

I have friends who can operate a pump just as quickly as a semi-auto. Accurately.

[FantasticDan]

After Vegas shooting, fake news regains its megaphone

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/business/las-vegas-shooting-fake-news.html?smid=fb-share

[Dahoss9698]

Some of us just appreciate that there is still one Constitutionally granted right that citizens are still fighting for and defending. I have zero use for a gun and have never owned one, nor do I intend to. If I thought that these proposed laws were any sort of real solution it might be a little different but I don't see access to guns as the root problem to make the priority component to address when someone decides to kill fifty plus and try for hundreds more.

What do you see as the root problem?

[johnhannibalsmith]

What do you see as the root problem?

I'm not sure anymore. I suppose it is always going to vary from case to case at least slightly and I think that's one reason why people love to run at the gun angle - it is the consistent element. People this motivated and meticulous aren't opportunists. Some of the others have been. I think it is detrimental to lump them all together as 'mass shooters' as though the gun is a key link and the problem itself. They are homicidal maniacs and that's the problem.

[ElKabong]

After Vegas shooting, fake news regains its megaphone

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/business/las-vegas-shooting-fake-news.html?smid=fb-share

Fake news from both sides. On talk radio here some libs chimed in early on that since the guy had money, he was a rich, privileged white man who bottomed out and lashed out in a way that rich privileged whites do.

Fake news has been going on my entire life. Nothing new. Lee Oswald being part of a conspiracy was the first I can think of.

[OntheRail]

What do you see as the root problem?

The Moral Decay... brought on by an Anything Goes Liberal Agenda.

Starting with removing School Prayer.
Removal of the Ten Commandments..
The Hyphen... that divides...
Men In Girls bathrooms....
Right down to the Ol' NFL Players disrespect for the country.....

Just to name a few... roots on the tree of decay.

[Fager Fan]

The Moral Decay... brought on by an Anything Goes Liberal Agenda.

Starting with removing School Prayer.
Removal of the Ten Commandments..
The Hyphen... that divides...
Men In Girls bathrooms....
Right down to the Ol' NFL Players disrespect for the country.....

Just to name a few... roots on the tree of decay.

Amen.

[Dahoss9698]

The Moral Decay... brought on by an Anything Goes Liberal Agenda.

Starting with removing School Prayer.
Removal of the Ten Commandments..
The Hyphen... that divides...
Men In Girls bathrooms....
Right down to the Ol' NFL Players disrespect for the country.....

Just to name a few... roots on the tree of decay.

So you see these as the reasons a 64 year old man went crazy and murdered innocent people at a festival?

Makes perfect sense :rolleyes:

[thaskalos]

So you see these as the reasons a 64 year old man went crazy and murdered innocent people at a festival?

Makes perfect sense :rolleyes:

After years and years of no prayer and no "ten commandments"...how do you expect a 64-year old to act?

[Inner Dirt]

Maybe an ex law enforcement officer like Ralph can let us know what regulations criminals and insane people are likely to follow. That is for all you calling for more gun control laws. I have no law enforcement background other than my dad was a cop. My uneducated view is criminals and the mentally insane do no follow laws, so more laws will have no effect on them. If someone knows different let me know.

[Dahoss9698]

Maybe an ex law enforcement officer like Ralph can let us know what regulations criminals and insane people are likely to follow. That is for all you calling for more gun control laws. I have no law enforcement background other than my dad was a cop. My uneducated view is criminals and the mentally insane do no follow laws, so more laws will have no effect on them. If someone knows different let me know.

The idea behind stricter gun control would be to make it harder for people to be able to get guns. It's not really that people aren't following the law. By all reports all of the guns this wacko bought were done legally.

[boxcar]

After years and years of no prayer and no "ten commandments"...how do you expect a 64-year old to act?

One of your best posts ever! This murder's rejection of God's law made him into a lawless person -- a logical consequence. God gave him over to his own reprobate mind (Rom 1:28-32).

[thaskalos]

Because of what I do and where I do it...I have illegally carried a concealed handgun on my person most nights for the past 25 years. But...even I can't help but notice that the vast majority of these atrocities occur because common citizens are carrying military weaponry. Isn't there a logical "middle-ground" that can be reached...whereby the citizen retains his "right to bear arms"...while we also prevent the insane among us from having the ability to kill or maim 500+ innocent people at a single sitting?

[jms62]

One of your best posts ever! This murder's rejection of God's law made him into a lawless person -- a logical consequence. God gave him over to his own reprobate mind (Rom 1:28-32).

Religion is like a Horse Trainer always an excuse when it goes horribly wrong.

[ReplayRandall]

I guess those in Vegas should feel fortunate that Paddock hadn't acquired several M203 grenade launchers with an effective range of 350 meters, seeing how it wasn't that hard to get his weapons and ammo into his room unnoticed.....Imagine the casualties and carnage grenades would have inflicted.

[classhandicapper]

Some interesting comments here from witnesses as reported OUTSIDE the US.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/las-vegas-shooting-queensland-eyewitness-to-mandalay-attack/news-story/17c907f4046f30ccfedf831e27e93cc8


He said he managed to escape the initial horrific scenes inside the hotel but found himself forced to hide in a bush for several hours after the event.
“I got outside safely and was hiding in bushes,” Mr Hodge said.
“There were multiple people dead and multiple shooters. I was just hiding waiting for police to come get us.
“We were hiding in the bushes outside waiting for the police.” Mr Hodge said he was staying in room 32134 while the gunman was in room 32135.
“It was a machine gun from the room next to me,” he said.
“My floor is a crime scene. They killed a security guard on my floor.”


She was at a bar in the nearby Luxor Hotel with her husband when she saw what she described as a “man of interest” run by.
“We managed to make our way back to our room…” she told The Courier-Mail.
“We are in lock down.
“Our door is dead locked and a chair against the door.”
Ms Miller said the man sprinted through her hotel after coming off an escalator from the Mandalay Bay.
“The man that they [security] were chasing was wearing a security jacket like them,” she said.

[Dahoss9698]

Because of what I do and where I do it...I have illegally carried a concealed handgun on my person most nights for the past 25 years. But...even I can't help but notice that the vast majority of these atrocities occur because common citizens are carrying military weaponry. Isn't there a logical "middle-ground" that can be reached...whereby the citizen retains his "right to bear arms"...while we also prevent the insane among us from having the ability to kill or maim 500+ innocent people at a single sitting?

You put this much better than I was able to.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Realistically, it is probably only a logical middle ground if it is in fact effective at stopping this sort of event. Otherwise, the middle keeps moving closer to the edges.

[classhandicapper]

Because of what I do and where I do it...I have illegally carried a concealed handgun on my person most nights for the past 25 years. But...even I can't help but notice that the vast majority of these atrocities occur because common citizens are carrying military weaponry. Isn't there a logical "middle-ground" that can be reached...whereby the citizen retains his "right to bear arms"...while we also prevent the insane among us from having the ability to kill or maim 500+ innocent people at a single sitting?

I agree with you.

Here's the problem the way I see it.

The gun advocates will NEVER trust any attempt by democrats to come up with sensible legislation because they know that some democrats (not all) will not stop at sensible. They really want to disarm everyone.

If you agree with that statement, that means the republicans have to be the ones to do it. They will be more sensitive to the fears of gun advocates and could conceivably enact legislation in a way that would be tolerable to the gun advocates.

The problem here is that the republicans get money from the NRA and some of their base is not going to trust anyone trying to regulate guns because they will still fear slippery slope confiscation. So it's really tough for republicans to do it even if they want to.

[davew]

Right...a mentally unstable person was able to pass whatever check he needed to, to purchase guns that he had no business having.

Maybe it shouldn't be so easy to get a gun.

If the guy wanted to kill as many people as he could, don't you think he could have used a semi-truck, bomb, airplane, fire, poison gas,.... if he could not get a gun?

[Dahoss9698]

If the guy wanted to kill as many people as he could, don't you think he could have used a semi-truck, bomb, airplane, fire, poison gas,.... if he could not get a gun?

Seriously?

[thaskalos]

I agree with you.

Here's the problem the way I see it.

The gun advocates will NEVER trust any attempt by democrats to come up with sensible legislation because they know that some democrats (not all) will not stop at sensible. They really want to disarm everyone.

If you agree with that statement, that means the republicans have to be the ones to do it. They will be more sensitive to the fears of gun advocates and could conceivably enact legislation in a way that would be tolerable to the gun advocates.

The problem here is that the republicans get money from the NRA and some of their base is not going to trust anyone trying to regulate guns because they will still fear slippery slope confiscation. So it's really tough for republicans to do it even if they want to.

So, without your usual pro-republican spin...you think that the democrat legislators are too stupid to realize that they cannot disarm the criminals as easily as they can disarm the law-abiding citizens...while the republicans are too corrupt to refuse the money that the NRA gives them so they could continue with their current stance on the "citizen-weapons" issue.

[JustRalph]

Because of what I do and where I do it...I have illegally carried a concealed handgun on my person most nights for the past 25 years. But...even I can't help but notice that the vast majority of these atrocities occur because common citizens are carrying military weaponry. Isn't there a logical "middle-ground" that can be reached...whereby the citizen retains his "right to bear arms"...while we also prevent the insane among us from having the ability to kill or maim 500+ innocent people at a single sitting?

And the only people you will affect will be law abiding citizens.

Criminals will continue to do whatever they want.

[JustRalph]

Maybe an ex law enforcement officer like Ralph can let us know what regulations criminals and insane people are likely to follow. That is for all you calling for more gun control laws. I have no law enforcement background other than my dad was a cop. My uneducated view is criminals and the mentally insane do no follow laws, so more laws will have no effect on them. If someone knows different let me know.

The only comment I have is, you are either going to follow the law, or you are not.

I believe it’s a conscious decision on whether you do or not. Why you make the choices you do......or they do......therein lies the mystery

[thaskalos]

And the only people you will affect will be law abiding citizens.

Criminals will continue to do whatever they want.

When we enact anti-drug laws, Ralph...are we trying to "disarm" the criminal drug users? We KNOW that the criminals will disobey the anti-drug laws...but we create these drug-laws anyway.

[classhandicapper]

Interesting stats on gun control from Washington Post

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i-used-to-think-gun-control-was-the-answer-my-research-told-me-otherwise/2017/10/03/d33edca6-a851-11e7-92d1-58c702d2d975_story.html?utm_term=.c312ca79f7b4

[classhandicapper]

So, without your usual pro-republican spin...you think that the democrat legislators are too stupid to realize that they cannot disarm the criminals as easily as they can disarm the law-abiding citizens...while the republicans are too corrupt to refuse the money that the NRA gives them so they could continue with their current stance on the "citizen-weapons" issue.

I'd say that's a pretty good summary, but my attempt wasn't to call the democrats stupid. The politics are tough.

For the record, I don't spin. I lean right on most issues. So calling them as I see them leans toward republicans on more issues than democrats.

[davew]

Seriously?

Yes, it is not like someone cut him off driving and he pulled out a pistol. Some serious planning and preparation went into this.

[Mulerider]

The problem here is that the republicans get money from the NRA and some of their base is not going to trust anyone trying to regulate guns because they will still fear slippery slope confiscation. So it's really tough for republicans to do it even if they want to.

The slippery slope is not far-fetched, depending on how the legislation is crafted.

Remember a couple of decades ago when the NRA was crucified in the media for trying to defeat legislation that would ban "cop-killer" bullets? Here's the real story:

In the '80s, teflon-coated handgun bullets were developed for law enforcement use that would penetrate standard body armor. NBC got wind of it, and produced a sensationalist prime-time piece called "Cop-Killer Bullets," despite the fact that the bullets had never been available to the public, no officer had ever been killed by one, and that law enforcement had asked NBC not to air it. NBC ignored the requests.

Shortly after the airing, Congress got involved. A New York congressman, Mario Biaggi (D), proposed legislation that would outlaw any bullet capable of penetrating certain bullet resistant material.

Enter the NRA. As written, the bill would have outlawed virtually every modern hunting rifle cartridge in existence..all of which will punch through standard bulletproof vests like a hot knife through butter. The NRA protested the bill as written. The media saw its opportunity: The NRA supports cop-killer bullets! And the myth still persists to this day.

The truth of the matter is the NRA worked to craft alternative legislation that would ban the sale of armor-piercing handgun ammunition, and that bill (H.R. 3132, 1986) was eventually enacted with the full support of Rep. Biaggi.

NBC didn't report that part.

Sorry. I've been in these trenches a long time.

[boxcar]

Religion is like a Horse Trainer always an excuse when it goes horribly wrong.

Hey...it beats blaming a gun. Besides, how can you not see that human beings are fundamentally flawed?

[Dahoss9698]

Hey...it beats blaming a gun. Besides, how can you not see that human beings are fundamentally flawed?

Trust me....anyone who reads your posts knows just how flawed human beings are.

[thaskalos]

Trust me....anyone who reads your posts knows just how flawed human beings are.

:lol:

Post of the Year...IMO. :ThmbUp:

[thaskalos]

Hey...it beats blaming a gun. Besides, how can you not see that human beings are fundamentally flawed?

So, the gun is blameless...but we should blame the lack of "organized prayer".

I'm starting to believe you about the "flawed nature of man". :ThmbUp:

[boxcar]

Trust me....anyone who reads your posts knows just how flawed human beings are.

Well good. You're making progress and you have me to thank for it. You can now quit blaming, inorganic, impersonal, amoral guns for the slaughter of human beings. Congratulations! :ThmbUp:

[Dahoss9698]

Well good. You're making progress and you have me to thank for it. You can now quit blaming, inorganic, impersonal, amoral guns for the slaughter of human beings. Congratulations! :ThmbUp:

My post was much funnier....and truthful than yours. Try harder.

[fast4522]

After years and years of no prayer and no "ten commandments"...how do you expect a 64-year old to act?

First the facts Gus, all of the whack jobs who have done these mass killings have been life long democrats, maybe this case will be the different one.
Until we figure out why this guy decided he was going to die the other day, we will not have the rest of the story. I would not be surprised if he found out he would not know his own name in a year due to a diagnoses Alzheimer's or a inoperable brain tumor. Other things that should be looked at might include hate of young people or that this particular concert might contain a disproportionate number of conservatives. My gut feeling is local and federal LEO's will uncover much on this one. It is way too early to propose remedies for evil people.

[Nutz and Boltz]

First the facts Gus, all of the whack jobs who have done these mass killings have been life long democrats, maybe this case will be the different one.
Until we figure out why this guy decided he was going to die the other day, we will not have the rest of the story. I would not be surprised if he found out he would not know his own name in a year due to a diagnoses Alzheimer's or a inoperable brain tumor. Other things that should be looked at might include hate of young people or that this particular concert might contain a disproportionate number of conservatives. My gut feeling is local and federal LEO's will uncover much on this one. It is way too early to propose remedies for evil people.

Probably nothing more will be found out until the authorities talk to the man's lady friend.

[Dahoss9698]

First the facts Gus, all of the whack jobs who have done these mass killings have been life long democrats, maybe this case will be the different one.
Until we figure out why this guy decided he was going to die the other day, we will not have the rest of the story. I would not be surprised if he found out he would not know his own name in a year due to a diagnoses Alzheimer's or a inoperable brain tumor. Other things that should be looked at might include hate of young people or that this particular concert might contain a disproportionate number of conservatives. My gut feeling is local and federal LEO's will uncover much on this one. It is way too early to propose remedies for evil people.

I like that you start your post saying facts and then immediately post something not true.

Was Timothy McVeigh a Democrat?

[johnhannibalsmith]

...

Was Timothy McVeigh a Democrat?

Or Dylan Roof or Adam Lanza or Harris and Kliebold...

[fast4522]

I like that you start your post saying facts and then immediately post something not true.

Was Timothy McVeigh a Democrat?

I honestly did not go that far back, keep in mind that I said whack jobs. Timothy McVeigh was correctly labeled a domestic terrorist. Maybe this guy will as well, but I bet he participated in a campaign in our last election. That is a stretch given he had no Facebook, I think that they will uncover more than one would think given he worked as a IRS agent and also for the USPS.

[boxcar]

So, the gun is blameless...but we should blame the lack of "organized prayer".

I'm starting to believe you about the "flawed nature of man". :ThmbUp:

How 'bout just the general lack of prayer? And what in the world is "organized prayer"?

[fast4522]

Probably nothing more will be found out until the authorities talk to the man's lady friend.
What they will talk to her about is the money transfers and collusion possibility's, the breadcrumbs this guy left behind over several states is already being gathered.

[Dahoss9698]

I honestly did not go that far back, keep in mind that I said whack jobs. Timothy McVeigh was correctly labeled a domestic terrorist. Maybe this guy will as well, but I bet he participated in a campaign in our last election. That is a stretch given he had no Facebook, I think that they will uncover more than one would think given he worked as a IRS agent and also for the USPS.

McVeigh was a whack job.

[thaskalos]

How 'bout just the general lack of prayer? And what in the world is "organized prayer"?

In post #199, OntheRail stated that the "removal of School prayer", that the "liberals" enacted, is a factor in these killing sprees. Of course, Fager Fan was quick to agree. That's what I was addressing...the "organized prayer" that used to take place in the schools.

When you talk about "the general lack of prayer"...I'm not sure that I know what you mean. Are the liberals also to blame for the reluctance of the parents to teach their kids how to pray at home?

[boxcar]

First the facts Gus, all of the whack jobs who have done these mass killings have been life long democrats, maybe this case will be the different one.
Until we figure out why this guy decided he was going to die the other day, we will not have the rest of the story. I would not be surprised if he found out he would not know his own name in a year due to a diagnoses Alzheimer's or a inoperable brain tumor. Other things that should be looked at might include hate of young people or that this particular concert might contain a disproportionate number of conservatives. My gut feeling is local and federal LEO's will uncover much on this one. It is way too early to propose remedies for evil people.

I would caution that no one should hold their breath waiting for the truth from authorities, most especially if the truth in this case paints liberals in even a more unflattering light -- or for that matter any "protected class" of people, such as Muslims -- if it turns out this guy was associated with Muslim terrorists. And this goes double if the FBI is the lead investigating agency in this case. It seems that an awful lot of careful planning went into this massacre for this to be a lone wolf crime.

[boxcar]

In post #199, OntheRail stated that the "removal of School prayer", that the "liberals" enacted, is a factor in these killing sprees. Of course, Fager Fan was quick to agree. That's what I was addressing...the "organized prayer" that used to take place in the schools.

When you talk about "the general lack of prayer"...I'm not sure that I know what you mean. Are the liberals also to blame for the reluctance of the parents to teach their kids how to pray at home?

It's not a liberal-conservative issue as much as a religious one. I'm thinking, for example of Ps 144:15 that talks about the blessedness of the people (nation) whose God is the Lord. But America is virtually a godless nation. There is no fear (reverence) of God in the people's eyes. There is no love for Him or trust for Him. Virtually everyone does what is right in his own eyes. This is one of the major reasons we see so much political and religious division in this country, which eventually will be our downfall, since a house divided against itself cannot stand. This is why in my church, we pray constantly that God would heal this land -- heal it spiritually.

[thaskalos]

I would caution that no one should hold their breath waiting for the truth from authorities, most especially if the truth in this case paints liberals in even a more unflattering light -- or for that matter any "protected class" of people, such as Muslims -- if it turns out this guy was associated with Muslim terrorists. And this goes double if the FBI is the lead investigating agency in this case. It seems that an awful lot of careful planning went into this massacre for this to be a lone wolf crime.

I don't understand. The liberals get blamed for wanting to "disarm everybody"...and they also get blamed for having "ties" to every mass-murderer that ever came down the pike. Is there any "evil" that the liberals AREN'T responsible for? :rolleyes:

[fast4522]

I would caution that no one should hold their breath waiting for the truth from authorities, most especially if the truth in this case paints liberals in even a more unflattering light -- or for that matter any "protected class" of people, such as Muslims -- if it turns out this guy was associated with Muslim terrorists. And this goes double if the FBI is the lead investigating agency in this case. It seems that an awful lot of careful planning went into this massacre for this to be a lone wolf crime.

I am not going to speak about a Muslim connection until that data is published, everything he did in the last five years will be unearthed no matter who it embarrasses. In fact if embarrassment is available look for it to be used aggressively, things have changed.

[boxcar]

I don't understand. The liberals get blamed for wanting to "disarm everybody"...and they also get blamed for having "ties" to every mass-murderer that ever came down the pike. Is there any "evil" that the liberals AREN'T responsible for? :rolleyes:

Have you read some of the vile, distasteful comments various liberals made right after the attack? Liberals tend to portray their own character in a very unflattering light -- all because they believe their mindset is mainstream America.

[boxcar]

I am not going to speak about a Muslim connection until that data is published, everything he did in the last five years will be unearthed no matter who it embarrasses. In fact if embarrassment is available look for it to be used aggressively, things have changed.

Yeah...just like all the facts have been revealed in some of our countries other great tragedies. I admire your optimism of government; but I believe it is sorely misplaced.

[boxcar]

By the way, Thask, the other key verse that I was struggling to recall earlier (especially in the context of prayer) is 2 Chron 7:14. The passage talks about how God will heal a nation -- but there are conditions attached.

[Dahoss9698]

By the way, Thask, the other key verse that I was struggling to recall earlier (especially in the context of prayer) is 2 Chron 7:14. The passage talks about how God will heal a nation -- but there are conditions attached.

Could you do us a favor and save your sermons for your religion thread where you've been getting embarrassed for weeks?

[Clocker]

The passage talks about how God will heal a nation -- but there are conditions attached.

Of course, there are always conditions. Will that be cash, check or charge. :rolleyes:

[ElKabong]

Could you do us a favor and save your sermons for your religion thread where you've been getting embarrassed for weeks?

Does he not have freedom of speech? Seriously. You have every right to counter him, but he and everyone else has a right to their say.

I go to church every Sunday (twice per, in fact) but I don't chime in on the religion thread for personal reasons / preference. One thing that does puzzle me is why do people try to muzzle others that quote the bible. Let him say his piece.

[MutuelClerk]

Does he not have freedom of speech? Seriously. You have every right to counter him, but he and everyone else has a right to their say.

I go to church every Sunday (twice per, in fact) but I don't chime in on the religion thread for personal reasons / preference. One thing that does puzzle me is why do people try to muzzle others that quote the bible. Let him say his piece.

Agreed. And those that wanna kneel let them kneel. Change the channel. Don't watch. We all live happily ever after.

[thaskalos]

Does he not have freedom of speech? Seriously. You have every right to counter him, but he and everyone else has a right to their say.


When I spoke in the Charlottesville thread...you called my opinion "idiotic". I guess we have the "freedom of speech" only when you agree with our opinion. :rolleyes:

[fast4522]

Yeah...just like all the facts have been revealed in some of our countries other great tragedies. I admire your optimism of government; but I believe it is sorely misplaced.

I do not dislike the government, I do favor my party affiliation so I guess I am a tad old school. I see government's ability to correct itself and am old enough to see the pendulum swing strongly when the public has had enough.