NYRA 4 Horse Fields for G1

[linrom1]

This is outrageous. They need to fire Kay and Panza. Both have proven incompetent beyond reason.

Grade 1, $400,000 Beldame:
Probable: Elate (Mott); Eskenformoney (Pletcher); Money'soncharlotte (Kelly Breen); Verve's Tale (Tagg)

Grade 1, $350,000 Vosburgh: "Win and You're In" TwinSpires Breeders' Cup Sprint division
Probable: El Deal (Jorge Navarro); Green Gratto (Gaston Grant); Mr. Crow (Pletcher); Stallwalkin' Dude (David Jacobson); Takaful (Kiaran McLaughlin); Weekend Hideaway (Phil Serpe)

Grade 3, $200,000 Pilgrim:
Probable: Desert Stone (Rudy Rodriguez); Evaluator (Michael Dilger); Maraud (Pletcher); Morrison (Joe Sharp); Phone Funky Munky (David Donk)

[PaceAdvantage]

I know I'm outraged (well, not really)

[Dahoss9698]

I know I'm outraged (well, not really)

This might be a first. Outrage over the probables 10 days from the race

[linrom1]

This might be a first. Outrage over the probables 10 days from the race

Try September 30th.

[Dahoss9698]

Try September 30th.

You're right my bad.

Only one of the races you lost has only 4 horses listed. Do you want to correct yourself?

[ronsmac]

You're right my bad.

Only one of the races you lost has only 4 horses listed. Do you want to correct yourself?

Wait for the scratches.

[cj]

You're right my bad.

Only one of the races you lost has only 4 horses listed. Do you want to correct yourself?

And it drew seven.

[GMB@BP]

And it drew seven.

god that field is not so good, other than elate its hard to see anyone else winning

[Alwaysonpoint36]

This is outrageous. They need to fire Kay and Panza. Both have proven incompetent beyond reason.



you should've nominated your horse

[cj]

god that field is not so good, other than elate its hard to see anyone else winning

LOL, you think that is bad, take a look at the Zenyatta.

[Track Phantom]

This is outrageous. They need to fire Kay and Panza. Both have proven incompetent beyond reason.

Grade 1, $400,000 Beldame:
Probable: Elate (Mott); Eskenformoney (Pletcher); Money'soncharlotte (Kelly Breen); Verve's Tale (Tagg)

Grade 1, $350,000 Vosburgh: "Win and You're In" TwinSpires Breeders' Cup Sprint division
Probable: El Deal (Jorge Navarro); Green Gratto (Gaston Grant); Mr. Crow (Pletcher); Stallwalkin' Dude (David Jacobson); Takaful (Kiaran McLaughlin); Weekend Hideaway (Phil Serpe)

Grade 3, $200,000 Pilgrim:
Probable: Desert Stone (Rudy Rodriguez); Evaluator (Michael Dilger); Maraud (Pletcher); Morrison (Joe Sharp); Phone Funky Munky (David Donk)
This is pretty dismal but what are Kay and Panza supposed to do? They don't enter the horses. The have a Grade 1 400k race. That should sell itself, right? Just curious what these two guys are supposed to do (or what two other guys in their role might do to be more successful at getting these fields filled). I truly don't know how it all works.

[cj]

This is pretty dismal but what are Kay and Panza supposed to do? They don't enter the horses. The have a Grade 1 400k race. That should sell itself, right? Just curious what these two guys are supposed to do (or what two other guys in their role might do to be more successful at getting these fields filled). I truly don't know how it all works.

All you can really do is cut the G1s and boost the purses of those that remain. No track wants to do that, but you could run them every other year. In this case we didn't need the Personal Ensign and the Beldame. Run one for a million dollars and scrap the other.

Horsemen, of course, would hate it. But they are the ones not supporting the races. Give them less options.

[Tom]

So I could spend $11 bucks for a DRF Saturday and have less horse in Gr1 races than I spent on the paper? :headbanger:

[GMB@BP]

LOL, you think that is bad, take a look at the Zenyatta.

another doozy...they should combine these fields and we would have a solid grade 3 event.

[dilanesp]

This is pretty dismal but what are Kay and Panza supposed to do? They don't enter the horses. The have a Grade 1 400k race. That should sell itself, right? Just curious what these two guys are supposed to do (or what two other guys in their role might do to be more successful at getting these fields filled). I truly don't know how it all works.

Also, Panza had an excellent track record filling stakes at Hollywood Park, which isn't easy. I'm inclined to think this is beyond his control.

[AstrosFan]

All you can really do is cut the G1s and boost the purses of those that remain. No track wants to do that, but you could run them every other year. In this case we didn't need the Personal Ensign and the Beldame. Run one for a million dollars and scrap the other.

Horsemen, of course, would hate it. But they are the ones not supporting the races. Give them less options.



Anyone can crunch handle numbers to see that a silly ass G1 with 4 or 5 horses isn't going to out-handle a 12 horse turf race at the major tracks

All that "wasted" money needs to go to overnight purses, which would = large fields, which then would = more handle

The days of graded stakes races being the consistent money maker at tracks is forever gone

No one in the racing office needs to be blamed. Every fancy pants owner/trainer knew about the major cash being given away when that cond. book or stks. schedule came out!

The horsemen at ALL these tracks hold the aces right now and they know it. The track operators need to stop their crap and fight fire with fire.

[cj]

Anyone can crunch handle numbers to see that a silly ass G1 with 4 or 5 horses isn't going to out-handle a 12 horse turf race at the major tracks

All that "wasted" money needs to go to overnight purses, which would = large fields, which then would = more handle

The days of graded stakes races being the consistent money maker at tracks is forever gone

No one in the racing office needs to be blamed. Every fancy pants owner/trainer knew about the major cash being given away when that cond. book or stks. schedule came out!

The horsemen at ALL these tracks hold the aces right now and they know it. The track operators need to stop their crap and fight fire with fire.

It has been shown over and over again that increased purses don't help field size.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

The BC and trainers deciding to train their horses up to the event has hurt stakes races all over the board. It certainly is not for a lack of trying. Add to that, horses that decide to have another race in between will most likely run on that surface.

It may seem like wasted money in the short term with these stakes, but when you run true to your condition book (not writing 20 extras) and stakes calendar the horsemen can count on it. Long term, you get more commitment and participation throughout the meet.

[castaway01]

There are fewer and fewer horses available and trainers are sitting the horses that are running for longer and longer times between races. Not sure what magic wand the racing secretary can wave to make horses appear that don't exist.

[Cholly]

It has been shown over and over again that increased purses don't help field size.
case in point: tomorrow NYRA offering $80K purse for 2nd level allowance fillies sprinting...5 entries

[rastajenk]

Nationalize the handle, and distribute the portion of the take devoted to purses more evenly across the spectrum of tracks in the various regions. There's no reason why "top trainers" and "top jockeys" need to all be in one of two main circuits. Spreading it out would help the smaller regional circuits keep their talent at home and encourage more local participation, which is how the tracks with decent average field size achieve decent field size.

It would be the opposite of the contraction that many feel is the right, inevitable way to go. And the goal wouldn't be merely to help the small tracks survive; it would be in the interests of large tracks to help maintain the fan bases around the country that can still watch and wager on their four-horse Grade One exhibitions.

Nationalizing the handle would also give plenty of leverage for moving toward the uniformity that so many believe is important. It could also be used to manipulate the scheduling of race meets and race days to make more logical circuits: "If you want to race Fri-Sat-Sun all year you will receive $X; if you race Sunday to Thursday for three months you will receive $X + $Y."

Smells like socialism, but sometimes you gotta check your principles at the door. :cool:

[linrom1]

The response that racing secretaries and track management can't do anything about trainers skipping races is very naive.

The most obvious solution is to impose refundable nominating fees with early deadline. If those races don't fill, CANCEL them.

[Robert Fischer]

The races are carded for the trainers and owners, at the expense of the horseplayers.


Horseplayers have to pass a lot of bad races.


Racing secretaries seem like incompetent imbeciles if you believe that their job is to produce a quality product. Quality simply isn't their goal. Just have to pass a lot of races. Have to pass your favorite stakes races much of the time. Have to pass races with your favorite horses much of the time.

[cj]

The races are carded for the trainers and owners, at the expense of the horseplayers.


Horseplayers have to pass a lot of bad races.


Racing secretaries seem like incompetent imbeciles if you believe that their job is to produce a quality product. Quality simply isn't their goal. Just have to pass a lot of races. Have to pass your favorite stakes races much of the time. Have to pass races with your favorite horses much of the time.

Racing secretaries have to cater to horsemen now more than ever. At most places, betting doesn't fuel the purses. Putting on "bettable" races plays a distant second to appeasing the horsemen. Slots welfare doesn't do a thing for the betting public. In fact, I'd argue it makes the betting product much worse.

[Prioress Ply]

Also, Panza had an excellent track record filling stakes at Hollywood Park, which isn't easy. I'm inclined to think this is beyond his control.

Panza was also FAMOUS for fake entries in the more mundane races at Hollywood, purporting to card "full fields" that routinely had had four or five 'late scratches.' Absolutely notorious. Was surprised when NYRA hired him.

[aaron]

Racing secretaries have to cater to horsemen now more than ever. At most places, betting doesn't fuel the purses. Putting on "bettable" races plays a distant second to appeasing the horsemen. Slots welfare doesn't do a thing for the betting public. In fact, I'd argue it makes the betting product much worse.
I never thought much about slots and the betting public. Now just thinking about it, in NY,the racing certainly has become less appealing since the slot money arrived. In my opinion, too many turf races and not enough dirt races. Days when 6 out of 10 races are turf races and at least 2 or 3 of them are just guessing races. I really don't know who is at fault. It seems you can"t get a decent everyday product that would do something for the betting public.