An Open Letter to Roger Goodell

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

A viral open letter to NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell about players kneeling during the national anthem is real, according to Snopes.

The fact-checkers say they contacted Retired Marine Col. Jeffery Powers, who wrote the letter. In the missive, Powers condemns football players who take a knee during the national anthem to call attention to police brutality and racial injustice.


Powers goes on to slam the National Football League for allowing players to protest in this way without incurring so much as a fine. The letter aligns with the sentiments of many, who see the protest as disrespectful.


Before calling players “scum,” Powers writes: “Isn’t it his 1st Amendment right to express himself like an idiot in the end zone? Why is taunting not allowed yet taunting America is ok?”

Snopes was able to contact Col. Powers, verify his service and locate a photo of Powers with Sgt. Garrett Mongrella, a fellow soldier he names in the letter. Mongrella was killed in action, as Powers said.

Read Powers’ letter in full below:

http://rare.us/rare-news/fact-checker-rules-on-the-viral-open-letter-to-the-nfl-from-a-retired-usmc-colonel/?utm_medium=rare-america&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=organic-social

[elysiantraveller]

A viral open letter to NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell about players kneeling during the national anthem is real, according to Snopes.

The fact-checkers say they contacted Retired Marine Col. Jeffery Powers, who wrote the letter. In the missive, Powers condemns football players who take a knee during the national anthem to call attention to police brutality and racial injustice.


Powers goes on to slam the National Football League for allowing players to protest in this way without incurring so much as a fine. The letter aligns with the sentiments of many, who see the protest as disrespectful.


Before calling players “scum,” Powers writes: “Isn’t it his 1st Amendment right to express himself like an idiot in the end zone? Why is taunting not allowed yet taunting America is ok?”

Snopes was able to contact Col. Powers, verify his service and locate a photo of Powers with Sgt. Garrett Mongrella, a fellow soldier he names in the letter. Mongrella was killed in action, as Powers said.

Read Powers’ letter in full below:

http://rare.us/rare-news/fact-checker-rules-on-the-viral-open-letter-to-the-nfl-from-a-retired-usmc-colonel/?utm_medium=rare-america&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=organic-social

So now its "taunting" America? :lol:

But... flying a Confederate Flag wouldn't be?

[lamboguy]

Ford Motor Corporation just today issued a statement supporting the NFL players that like to take a knee for the National Anthem, at that time they just lost me as a customer for a brand new Ford Mustang.

i am going to stick with my 20 year old Buick that is falling apart now from the ice and snow during the cold winters in Boston.

[thaskalos]

"Legends and heroes do NOT wear shoulder pads. They wear body armor and carry rifles." :rolleyes:

[Fager Fan]

"Legends and heroes do NOT wear shoulder pads. They wear body armor and carry rifles." :rolleyes:

That was a great and very true line.

[Fager Fan]

Ford Motor Corporation just today issued a statement supporting the NFL players that like to take a knee for the National Anthem, at that time they just lost me as a customer for a brand new Ford Mustang.

i am going to stick with my 20 year old Buick that is falling apart now from the ice and snow during the cold winters in Boston.

I just bought a new truck and because of some issues with my Ford F-150 and Ford's response, I told them I'd not buy Ford next time. I didn't, and now doubly glad I didn't.

[thaskalos]

That was a great and very true line.

There are many kinds of "heroes". And carrying a rifle isn't one of the requirements.

[JustRalph]

That was a great and very true line.

Pretty sure he was mocking that line.

[jimmyb]

There are many kinds of "heroes". And carrying a rifle isn't one of the requirements.

Someone that gets up each day, goes to work, and takes care of ones family. My hats off to those people. Single working moms ... toughest job in the world. I would add these people to the list.

[Tom]

Can Roger read?

[Fager Fan]

Pretty sure he was mocking that line.

Oh, I know. I was ignoring the mocking since it's never cool to mock a soldier.

[Fager Fan]

Someone that gets up each day, goes to work, and takes care of ones family. My hats off to those people. Single working moms ... toughest job in the world. I would add these people to the list.

The conversation is soldiers versus grown men who play a game for a living. That's why firemen or doctors or the founder of a charity aren't also listed.

[FantasticDan]

Oh, I know. I was ignoring the mocking since it's never cool to mock a soldier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qf6Sv3A9zs

[jimmyb]

The conversation is soldiers versus grown men who play a game for a living. That's why firemen or doctors or the founder of a charity aren't also listed.

Threads take a life of their own

Gus mentioned there are other heroes besides soldiers. Having served our country in the U.S. army uniquely qualifies me to determine who is and is not a hero. I'll express my opinion without any help, thank you.

[thaskalos]

Pretty sure he was mocking that line.

I didn't mean to hide the sarcasm of my post...that's why I included the emoticon. OF COURSE I was mocking it. No one except the Marine colonel who submitted the "open letter" has ever referred to these protesting athletes as "legends or heroes". He had to refer to them as such in order to tell us that the "legends and heroes wear body armor and carry rifles".

As I said before...you don't need to carry an M4 rifle to be a "hero".

[Fager Fan]

Threads take a life of their own

Gus mentioned there are other heroes besides soldiers. Having served our country in the U.S. army uniquely qualifies me to determine who is and is not a hero. I'll express my opinion without any help, thank you.

His comment was a rolling eye to the one who made it. I explained that the author was comparing only 2 sets of people, not any others who may be considered heroes to some.

Sorry for trying to get back to the main point, and not further the claim that the author was wrong as there are heroes who don't carry rifles.

[thaskalos]

His comment was a rolling eye to the one who made it. I explained that the author was comparing only 2 sets of people, not any others who may be considered heroes to some.

Sorry for trying to get back to the main point, and not further the claim that the author was wrong as there are heroes who don't carry rifles.

Did anyone ever compare the protesting athletes to the Marines? Why did the colonel feel that he had to make such a "comparison"?

[ReplayRandall]

Did anyone ever compare the protesting athletes to the Marines? Why did the colonel feel that he had to make such a "comparison"?

Maybe the Colonel, even though a Marine, had Army Ranger Pat Tillman on his mind when he made his comments about the NFL athletes and the military.

[Fager Fan]

Did anyone ever compare the protesting athletes to the Marines? Why did the colonel feel that he had to make such a "comparison"?

Come on, Skalos. The reason so many are upset with the players, as has been repeatedly stated, is that they're choosing to disrespect the flag and country, which by extension disrespects all who have fought for this country. So hence the comparison between the players and those they're disrespecting.

The NFL hasn't been too smart about this. They've had a year to nip this in the bud. It states right there in their contract that all teams shall be on the field for the national anthem, that they shall stand, hold their helmets in their left arm, etc. If they wanted to allow protests, then they should've just removed the disrespectful element by not allowing it to be aimed at the flag. It's not too late. Go join arms in the middle of the field for 30 seconds before commencing the second half. Thankfully we're still a country where one can't win against patriotism.

[thaskalos]

Maybe the Colonel, even though a Marine, had Army Ranger Pat Tillman on his mind when he made his comments about the NFL athletes and the military.

The way the Pat Tillman saga played itself out...I don't blame the other football players for not following in his footsteps. Do you? The Army owed Tillman and his family a little more...IMO.

[ReplayRandall]

The way the Pat Tillman saga played itself out...I don't blame the other football players for not following in his footsteps. Do you? The Army owed him and his family a little more...IMO.

Agreed, but the point I made is one out of respect, not disrespect like the NFL players are showing.....The only time anyone should bow a knee, is out of ultimate respect for THE only entity deserving of that honor, whenever that day comes....Just my opinion.

[thaskalos]

Agreed, but the point I made is one out of respect, not disrespect like the NFL players are showing.....The only time anyone should bow a knee, is out of ultimate respect for THE only entity deserving of that honor, whenever that day comes....Just my opinion.

I don't disagree with what you say, Randall. In fact, that's pretty much what I implied when I stated, a few weeks ago, that "there is too much freedom in this freaking country". I was roundly criticized for "suppressing people's freedoms" when I said that...by people who are now saying basically the same thing that I said then.

[fast4522]

I don't disagree with what you say, Randall. In fact, that's pretty much what I implied when I stated, a few weeks ago, that "there is too much freedom in this freaking country". I was roundly criticized for "suppressing people's freedoms" when I said that...by people who are now saying basically the same thing that I said then.

Not I, for every one there is a responsibility that goes with it. In our time we will see this come full circle on those take their responsibility too lightly.

[classhandicapper]

But... flying a Confederate Flag wouldn't be?

I have to say something about the Confederate Flag.

When most northerners think about the Confederate Flag, they think in terms of slavery, racism, Jim Crow laws etc.. When they seen it flown, they project those sentiments onto the people flying it and can't help but think they are bigots and racists.

However, if you asked most southerners what the Confederate Flags means to them, they'd probably tell you southern values like guns, hunting, God, traditional family, NASCAR and barbecue. It's a southern "pride" and southern "values" thing. They are saying we are different than northerners. We have different values than northerners. We are proud of our values.

They obviously could have picked a better symbol to express their pride. Regardless of what it means to them, they are antagonizing millions of people.

But I don't think the typical modern southerner flies the Confederate Flag to disrespect America. It's the opposite. They fly it to disrespect northerners and liberals.

[Inner Dirt]

However, if you asked most southerners what the Confederate Flags means to them, they'd probably tell you southern values like guns, hunting, God, traditional family, NASCAR and barbecue. It's a southern "pride" and southern "values" thing. They are saying we are different than northerners. We have different values than northerners. We are proud of our values.


You will never convince any liberal of that. On top of what you mentioned it also means a big F-U to the federal government. Of course when you bring up states rights to a liberal they think it is all about wanting Jim Crow laws and segregation back. It is remarkable of how many in the south still have a problem with Yankees.

[davew]

the left's shakedown of the cash cow NFL is working better than they planned - won't be as much money if they lose 20% fans every year

[tucker6]

I have to say something about the Confederate Flag.

When most northerners think about the Confederate Flag, they think in terms of slavery, racism, Jim Crow laws etc.. When they seen it flown, they project those sentiments onto the people flying it and can't help but think they are bigots and racists.

However, if you asked most southerners what the Confederate Flags means to them, they'd probably tell you southern values like guns, hunting, God, traditional family, NASCAR and barbecue. It's a southern "pride" and southern "values" thing. They are saying we are different than northerners. We have different values than northerners. We are proud of our values.

They obviously could have picked a better symbol to express their pride. Regardless of what it means to them, they are antagonizing millions of people.

But I don't think the typical modern southerner flies the Confederate Flag to disrespect America. It's the opposite. They fly it to disrespect northerners and liberals.

BINGO. I'm a northerner living in SC. For the vast majority of confederate flag wavers, it's a fairly harmless display of southern pride and values. We are six generations removed from the civil war. The meaning of certain symbols and words change over time.

[rastajenk]

So, other than engage the nation in yet another 'conversation about race,' (when are we not in a conversation about race?) what is supposed to result from these anthem protests by sports participants?

Is an individual cop, or the police chief in any given community, supposed to think, "Gah, this is bad for the NFL; let's make sure we clean up our act"?

Would some convictions in high-profile cases move the needle at all on the Nation's Racism gauge?

Would an increase in racial tension vindicate those who have been yelling that White Supremacy is indeed on the march, justifying stronger attempts to silence even moderate voices, violently if necessary?

It seems odd to me that, like nearly everything else, there is a left-right cleavage on these current events, but it's the lefties signalling their virtue (read: dislike of American norms and mores) by supporting millionaires in solidarity with their millionaire peers.

So an athlete kneels, and I guess is thinking, "I'll show them," and 50,000 paying customers are thinking, "What an a-hole"; and some kind of social justice is supposed to result? I'm doubting it.

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

the left's shakedown of the cash cow NFL is working better than they planned - won't be as much money if they lose 20% fans every year

After the Cowboy nonsense on Monday, the NFL is officially off limits on any TV in the house.

[elysiantraveller]

For the record since everyone here has to place ANYTHING on the political spectrum I don't think flying the confederate flag or kneeling is "taunting" America...

What I want to know is how kneeling during the national anthem is taunting America but flying the flag of open rebellion isn't by some you. How do you remain intellectually honest and come to this conclusion.

Just seems one hell of a leap to me.

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

Flying the Confederate Flag is not taunting America.

Kneeling at the national anthem and the flag that so many died for to give them the right to show their hatred -- is beneath contempt.

If it weren't for all of the gamblers who bet the game religiously, the NFL would be over.

[elysiantraveller]

Flying the Confederate Flag is not taunting America.

Kneeling at the national anthem and the flag that so many died for to give them the right to show their hatred -- is beneath contempt.

If it weren't for all of the gamblers who bet the game religiously, the NFL would be over.

How...?

The Confederacy picked up arms against America. Weren't you defending the Charlottesville protestors right to fly Swastikas and chant Reich phrases but this is your bridge too far?

Black athletes trying to raise awareness of racial discrimination in a totally peaceful way... but it just makes you uncomfortable?

That's taunting America but the former isn't?

[Fager Fan]

For the record since everyone here has to place ANYTHING on the political spectrum I don't think flying the confederate flag or kneeling is "taunting" America...

What I want to know is how kneeling during the national anthem is taunting America but flying the flag of open rebellion isn't by some you. How do you remain intellectually honest and come to this conclusion.

Just seems one hell of a leap to me.

I grew up where the confederate flag was about Lynyrd Skynyrd and being proud to be country/Southern. It meant zero ugliness, and remains meaning zero ugliness to all Southerners except for the unfortunate situation where white supremacists use it for their purposes. We wish they didn't, but how do we stop it? Now, because of all the politics over it, we've lost the symbol forever.

What do you think when you see the lawn jockeys at the tracks and farms? If you're like me and most, you think nothing negative. But there are some who see them as racist based on the lawn jockeys of old which were black and some which were grotesque in their appearance. So imagine if lawn jockeys being racist gained a foothold and a fight ensues on whether they stay or go. Is the side who sees nothing wrong with them and wants them to remain at the tracks and farms wrong just because some view them differently than us? Is it wrong to fight for a tradition that in our minds only has good connotations?

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

How...?

The Confederacy picked up arms against America. Weren't you defending the Charlottesville protestors right to fly Swastikas and chant Reich phrases but this is your bridge too far?

Black athletes trying to raise awareness of racial discrimination in a totally peaceful way... but it just makes you uncomfortable?

That's taunting America but the former isn't?

Very simple. Except for the white supremacist lunatics who represent such a small percentage of America, Confederate Flag wavers love America.

Based on your logic of what the Confederate flag represents, we should still be at war with Germany, Japan, Vietnam and England.

Black athletes disrespecting the flag does not make me uncomfortable. It makes me angry. And my deep loathing for these people does not make me want to remove their free speech (as most liberals do for those who disagree with them). Too many great Americans died to allow this filth to not worry about being jailed for expressing their hatred for this country that made them privileged and wealthy.

[Dahoss9698]

It meant zero ugliness, and remains meaning zero ugliness to all Southerners except for the unfortunate situation where white supremacists use it for their purposes.

There is ZERO truth in this.

[Dahoss9698]

Very simple. Except for the white supremacist lunatics who represent such a small percentage of America, Confederate Flag wavers love America.

What are you basing this on other than emotion?

I'm trying to figure out how the snowflake mind works.

[tucker6]

How...?

The Confederacy picked up arms against America. Weren't you defending the Charlottesville protestors right to fly Swastikas and chant Reich phrases but this is your bridge too far?

Black athletes trying to raise awareness of racial discrimination in a totally peaceful way... but it just makes you uncomfortable?

That's taunting America but the former isn't?

Part of it is the venue and part of it is the messengers. I don't want politics rammed down my throat 24/7. I watch sports for the sports!!! Novel idea I know. If you want to protest police or human rights, please do so at a political venue, like a march. As for the messengers, while many came from poor backgrounds, many of those same players have turned their backs on those communities once they received their dose of "white privilege", whatever that means. If those football players would try to make meaningful changes in the community on their own time rather than my time, I'd respect kneeling a whole lot more. Kneeling at the anthem doesn't do squat for what they say they are protesting except making half the country pissed off. Hypocrisy at its finest.

[elysiantraveller]

Ooh now this is getting good!

...

Okay I'm going to even grant you this. BUT!!!

In this case its not being used as a symbol of Southern Pride, Lynyrd Skynyrd and culture its being used as a rallying point for white supremacy. SO!!! How are the Charlottesville protestors not taunting America but these athletes are?

Black athletes disrespecting the flag does not make me uncomfortable. It makes me angry. And my deep loathing for these people does not make me want to remove their free speech (as most liberals do for those who disagree with them). Too many great Americans died to allow this filth to not worry about being jailed for expressing their hatred for this country that made them privileged and wealthy.

So you still aren't asking the question... how did you defend the Charlottesville protestors but these NFLers taking a knee are "taunting" America.

So you're angry that black athletes are using the flag and anthem to disrespect our country that so many have fought and died for but have no problem with people walking around with Confederate Flags, Nazi Flags, Klan Garb, and shouting Reich Chants while throwing up Nazi salutes because... well... free speech.

I wear this everyday... it was my grandfather's who went around the world fighting those people and losing close friends along the way. I don't like disrespecting Flag or the National Anthem as much as the next guy. Every day a flag flies in front of my house and every year I buy a new one and burn the old according to how you're supposed to. We are only 3 generations removed from those people who took up arms globally to fight against those flags...

So I'll ask again make the difference between how Charlottesville was just free speech and not taunting America but NFL athletes taking a knee to raise awareness about racial discrimination is?

[Dahoss9698]

Part of it is the venue and part of it is the messengers. I don't want politics rammed down my throat 24/7. I watch sports for the sports!!! Novel idea I know. If you want to protest police or human rights, please do so at a political venue, like a march. As for the messengers, while many came from poor backgrounds, many of those same players have turned their backs on those communities once they received their dose of "white privilege", whatever that means. If those football players would try to make meaningful changes in the community on their own time rather than my time, I'd respect kneeling a whole lot more. Kneeling at the anthem doesn't do squat for what they say they are protesting except making half the country pissed off. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Your last sentence sums up your post perfectly.

[elysiantraveller]

Part of it is the venue and part of it is the messengers. I don't want politics rammed down my throat 24/7. I watch sports for the sports!!! Novel idea I know. If you want to protest police or human rights, please do so at a political venue, like a march. As for the messengers, while many came from poor backgrounds, many of those same players have turned their backs on those communities once they received their dose of "white privilege", whatever that means. If those football players would try to make meaningful changes in the community on their own time rather than my time, I'd respect kneeling a whole lot more. Kneeling at the anthem doesn't do squat for what they say they are protesting except making half the country pissed off. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Well then you should be pissed at Trump. National Anthems typically aren't shown on TV. Did you stand when it was played?

As for the second part of the post you really should look at what some of those NFLers are doing in their communities and our country as a whole after their dose of "white privilege."

[Dahoss9698]

Are people mad about all the WHITE players that protested....or is it just the black players? :popcorn:

[tucker6]

Well then you should be pissed at Trump. National Anthems typically aren't shown on TV. Did you stand when it was played?

As for the second part of the post you really should look at what some of those NFLers are doing in their communities and our country as a whole after their dose of "white privilege."

I voted with my feet on Sunday. I did not watch any games even though pro football is my preferred escape. I instead did yard work. You?

I didn't say ALL players don't give back to the community they grew up in, but a good percentage do not. You seem to agree with me by the use of the word, "some."

[Fager Fan]

Ooh now this is getting good!



Okay I'm going to even grant you this. BUT!!!

In this case its not being used as a symbol of Southern Pride, Lynyrd Skynyrd and culture its being used as a rallying point for white supremacy. SO!!! How are the Charlottesville protestors not taunting America but these athletes are?



So you still aren't asking the question... how did you defend the Charlottesville protestors but these NFLers taking a knee are "taunting" America.

So you're angry that black athletes are using the flag and anthem to disrespect our country that so many have fought and died for but have no problem with people walking around with Confederate Flags, Nazi Flags, Klan Garb, and shouting Reich Chants while throwing up Nazi salutes because... well... free speech.

I wear this everyday... it was my grandfather's who went around the world fighting those people and losing close friends along the way. I don't like disrespecting Flag or the National Anthem as much as the next guy. Every day a flag flies in front of my house and every year I buy a new one and burn the old according to how you're supposed to. We are only 3 generations removed from those people who took up arms globally to fight against those flags...

So I'll ask again make the difference between how Charlottesville was just free speech and not taunting America but NFL athletes taking a knee to raise awareness about racial discrimination is?

What is it you want me to say? They're taunting. They're despicable (just like another who says I said things I didn't). But they have the right to protest, and we have the right to react to them. Since they're a non-relevant group of nobodies, there isn't much to do besides call them creeps and continue to ignore what isn't be putting in our faces.

The players have the right to protest, and we have the right to react. There is no difference except that the NFL has a far bigger platform, is making far more noise and is in our faces, so our reaction is likewise larger.

[elysiantraveller]

I voted with my feet on Sunday. I did not watch any games even though pro football is my preferred escape. I instead did yard work. You?

I didn't say ALL players don't give back to the community they grew up in, but a good percentage do not. You seem to agree with me by the use of the word, "some."

Watched my Lions get screwed again... Shame it was a great day of football to be missed.

My stance on this whole thing is I'm not a big fan of kneeling during the Anthem but I get why they are doing it. It's a great vehicle to get people talking about it. I don't think they "hate America" or should be fired or disrespect the troops... These are largely creations by our President who put the spotlight on an issue you are already sensitive to. And today he is doubling down on it again.

Honest analysis: He is beginning to swing toward the left in his agenda as I and a few others on here predicted he would. This is just a means of firing up his base over something that should largely be much ado about nothing. He's showing them he still cares... sorta and... its working.

I don't know where he will rate on the pecking order of Presidents but I can assure he is the greatest internet Troll of all time. GOAT.

[Dahoss9698]

Sure seems like a lot of wasted energy on a bunch of non relevant nobodies.

Makes sense :lol:

[tucker6]

I don't know where he will rate on the pecking order of Presidents but I can assure he is the greatest internet Troll of all time. GOAT.

On that we agree. His detractors bite the hook every time. There is zero negative that will stick to Trump over this. His base loves him more and his detractors hate him more. The NFL will see the brunt of any fallout, and mark my words, Goodell will not be commissioner two years from now. He has a tin ear too often.

[elysiantraveller]

On that we agree. His detractors bite the hook every time. There is zero negative that will stick to Trump over this. His base loves him more and his detractors hate him more. The NFL will see the brunt of any fallout, and mark my words, Goodell will not be commissioner two years from now. He has a tin ear too often.

Oh please... his supporters do too. More division... which is the greatest criticism he is receiving on this from people regardless of spectrum.

But yes we agree... Sadly, I hoped for more than a NY Liberal who appeases a far right base on social media in 2016.

Sheeple... everywhere.

[Inner Dirt]

After the Cowboy nonsense on Monday, the NFL is officially off limits on any TV in the house.

It would be better to watch and take notes on who advertises during NFL games and go out of your way to stop buying those products and encourage your friends to do the same. If enough people did that someone would notice. As long as you don't support the sponsors, buy licensed NFL merchandise or attend the games you aren't giving the NFL a dime.

[BaffertsWig]

Well then you should be pissed at Trump. National Anthems typically aren't shown on TV. Did you stand when it was played?


Spot on. Aside from high-profile games such as the Superbowl, etc., the anthem isn't usually televised. It only has been in the last few weeks because of Dotard Drumpf's twitter antics escalating the situation. I highly doubt most of the posters here, faux outrage and all, stand up at home when it does come on the television. Where was all the outrage before 2009 when NFL players stayed in the locker room and weren't "required" to stand up on the field during the anthem? Isn't that more "disrespectful" than being out on the field at all? As far as I know, to this day there is nothing in the NFL rulebook that says players MUST be present and standing on the field during the anthem. They may be encouraged to be on the field, but it isn't mandatory.

People claim taking a knee during the anthem is disrespectful to our nation when all these players are doing are trying to bring social awareness to major problems of unchecked police brutality (especially towards POC) and systemic racism. It's sad that racism, homophobia and bigotry are so prevalent in our society in 2017, and people (even here) don't recognize their "white privilege, whatever that means."

Bottom line, if the NFL's policy is not to interfere with players' first amendment rights, then the snowflakes should stop whining and just stop watching. Stick to watching Faux News and Jeff Foxworthy's Blue Collar Comedy specials, you won't be "offended" there.

[BaffertsWig]

I don't know where he will rate on the pecking order of Presidents but I can assure he is the greatest internet Troll of all time. GOAT.

I do believe his escalating the situation is a charade of smoke and mirrors to get people focused on kneeling before a flag, diverting their attention from more important things going on.

[elysiantraveller]

I do believe his escalating the situation is a charade of smoke and mirrors to get people focused on kneeling before a flag, diverting their attention from more important things going on.

Of course he is. Politically he's abandoned his base the past few weeks. Hell his last chance at repeal and replace rests on the shoulders of Lindsay effing Graham... the two hate each other.

DACA is here to stay without a wall, the Travel Ban is already being overhauled, he called for a stronger UN, and the Democrats win the debt ceiling argument while conceding nothing, strengthening their hand on Tax Reform.

But in Alabama, a state overwhelmingly supportive of his presidential bid, he'll fire up his base with an attack on hate America footballers. The old with me or against America ruse.

[woodtoo]

"We didn't need to manufacture some new moment of unity. The National Anthem WAS the moment of unity, regardless of what team or political party
you support." said someone

[woodtoo]

This is not about football, it is about cop-killing BLM millionaire thugs not getting their way.

[Dahoss9698]

This is not about football, it is about cop-killing BLM millionaire thugs not getting their way.

I think your post tells us what it's about for a lot of you. Race.

[ReplayRandall]

I happened to notice that the NFL has now incited the NBA to start protesting as well, but NOTHING from the NHL or MLB?.....I guess this must be a racial problem after all.

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

I happened to notice that the NFL has now incited the NBA to start protesting as well, but NOTHING from the NHL or MLB?.....I guess this must be a racial problem after all.

Certainly racially motivated. It started with black players and then. those who are not black and are afraid of being "called racists" (the single worst punishment possible in America, today), joined the hate-America alliance.

[woodtoo]

I think your post tells us what it's about for a lot of you. Race.

It is about race, ask CK he started the whole word laughing, at him.
Too bad he wasn't fired right away.

[Dahoss9698]

Let's talk about respect for the flag. Is it respectful that people wear the flag as a bathing suit? How about when Kid Rock cuts a hole in the flag and wears it?

[ReplayRandall]

Let's talk about respect for the flag. Is it respectful that people wear the flag as a bathing suit? How about when Kid Rock cuts a hole in the flag and wears it?
Yep, it's disrespectful......Next?

[Dahoss9698]

Yep, it's disrespectful......Next?

I must have missed those threads and the outrage at it. I bet most of the conservatives here would vote for Kid Rock for Senate....yet are fine with him wearing the flag as an article of clothing.

It's selective outrage.

[thaskalos]

Yep, it's disrespectful......Next?

Have you ever complained about Kid Rock "disrespecting" the flag?

[ReplayRandall]

Have you ever complained about Kid Rock "disrespecting" the flag?

Not here, but I'll go on record as not being a fan of his behavior and disrespect for our flag.......Next?

[thaskalos]

Not here, but I'll go on record as not being a fan of his behavior and disrespect for our flag.......Next?

And I'll go on record as not being a fan of the players kneeling during the anthem. So what? Kid Rock continues doing his thing, and the flag is still made into underwear that people wrap around their balls...while the athletes are the only ones who are blamed for showing "disrespect".

[thaskalos]

http://www.internationaljock.com/ca-rio-ca-brief-cut-brazilian-sunga-team-usa,74116.html?track=froogle&utm_source=frooglesite&utm_medium=feed&gclid=Cj0KCQjw9afOBRDWARIsAJW4nvxrd_IYZT5mC1HZ-Jqn5P87R7Y4JjDG8B8qLP0nlhOp2Lahd5H-0zcaAnB9EALw_wcB

"Wear the American flag proudly in front"...the ad says.

And not a complaint in sight from the Marine Colonels about this.

[ReplayRandall]

And I'll go on record as not being a fan of the players kneeling during the anthem. So what? Kid Rock continues doing his thing, and the flag is still made into underwear that people wrap around their balls...while the athletes are the only ones who are blamed for showing "disrespect".

Then I guess I'll have to stop watching the NFL until this stops, the same as not listening or watching what Kid Rock says or does......Next?

[Fager Fan]

And I'll go on record as not being a fan of the players kneeling during the anthem. So what? Kid Rock continues doing his thing, and the flag is still made into underwear that people wrap around their balls...while the athletes are the only ones who are blamed for showing "disrespect".

Wearing a flag fabric is a sign of respect, not the opposite. Not many wear what is extremely distasteful to them.

[thaskalos]

Wearing a flag fabric is a sign of respect, not the opposite. Not many wear what is extremely distasteful to them.

Wrapping your genitalia in an American flag underwear is a sign of "respect" for the flag...you say. And then you expect people to take your comments SERIOUSLY?

[FantasticDan]

Wrapping your genitalia in an American flag underwear is a sign of "respect" for the flag...you say. And then you expect people to take your comments SERIOUSLY?I think that ship sailed awhile back. And there were a lot of PA alt-righties waving from the deck :pound:

[Fager Fan]

Wrapping your genitalia in an American flag underwear is a sign of "respect" for the flag...you say. And then you expect people to take your comments SERIOUSLY?

Yes. You're getting desperate to try to say clothing made of flag inspired material is disrespectful.

Calvin Klein sure doesn't think it's disrespectful to have his name emblazoned on underwear.

[Dahoss9698]

I think that ship sailed awhile back. And there were a lot of PA alt-righties waving from the deck :pound:

:lol::lol::lol:

Well played sir, well played.

[thaskalos]

Yes. You're getting desperate to try to say clothing made of flag inspired material is disrespectful.

Calvin Klein sure doesn't think it's disrespectful to have his name emblazoned on underwear.

If Calvin Klein thinks it isn't disrespectful...then that settles it. :rolleyes:

And you call ME "desperate"...

[Fager Fan]

I think that ship sailed awhile back. And there were a lot of PA alt-righties waving from the deck :pound:

You realize of course that many think the same of you and your fellow lefties?

The fact is that clothes are made with any number of designs, and it's always a show of respect unless there's something explicit about it that shows disrespect.

Millions of companies and brands are put onto clothing, and they sure don't do it out of disrespect for themselves or their product. The NFL isn't thinking people are being disrespectful when they buy and wear their merchandise.

As I said, good try, but ultimately this try falls flat on its face.

[Fager Fan]

If Calvin Klein thinks it isn't disrespectful...then that settles it. :rolleyes:

And you call ME "desperate"...

I'll type slowly so you understand. You are trying to make something ugly out of underwear. If it's an embarrassing product (what, are you 9?), then Calvin would be hiding himself as the maker, not the opposite.

Men prefer white. Women like designs. When women buy undies that have a flag design, they're doing so because they like it. If you don't believe me, then you haven't been around too many women. They don't buy undies they find distasteful.

[thaskalos]

You realize of course that many think the same of you and your fellow lefties?

The fact is that clothes are made with any number of designs, and it's always a show of respect unless there's something explicit about it that shows disrespect.

Millions of companies and brands are put onto clothing, and they sure don't do it out of disrespect for themselves or their product. The NFL isn't thinking people are being disrespectful when they buy and wear their merchandise.

As I said, good try, but ultimately this try falls flat on its face.

So...is that's what the image of our flag is now? Just a "product" or a "brand"? Why is the Marine Colonel making such a big deal of this then? Since when is it so bad to "disrespect a product or a brand"?

[Fager Fan]

So...is that's what the image of our flag is now? Just a "product" or a "brand"? Why is the Marine Colonel making such a big deal of this then? Since when is it so bad to "disrespect a product or a brand"?

It's always been bad to disrespect America.

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

It's always been bad to disrespect America.

The desperation of the vocal minority on this board trying, playing word games to justify the NFL hate-America agenda is quite palpable.

It is similar to the techniques used to try to sell America Queen Hillary last fall.

[ReplayRandall]

That's right, 8 years of Mr. "Hope and Change" Obama doing NOTHING about racial problems in this country, but 8 months of Trump and NOW we have this huge problem?

Ridiculously laughable....:lol::lol::lol::rip:

[thaskalos]

I'll type slowly so you understand. You are trying to make something ugly out of underwear. If it's an embarrassing product (what, are you 9?), then Calvin would be hiding himself as the maker, not the opposite.

Men prefer white. Women like designs. When women buy undies that have a flag design, they're doing so because they like it. If you don't believe me, then you haven't been around too many women. They don't buy undies they find distasteful.

No...let me type very slowly...to make sure that YOU understand:

All this is just a bullshit excuse for some people like yourself...who can't help but praise this moron president of ours, no matter how ridiculous he sounds. I fully understand what the flag and the anthem stand for...but this isn't the first time that these "symbols of freedom and sacrifice" have been widely disrespected. They get disrespected when the athletes scratch their balls or joke around and spit during the anthem's recital...as well as when a Rosanne Barr-like character is asked to do the singing of it...or when some young "diva" is allowed to sing it in "her own unique style". And it's disrespected when it's being played in places like the OTBs throughout the land...where the "disrespect" for it reaches entirely new levels. I know...because I am there almost daily.

And this blatant "disrespect" never meant anything to anyone...until a single football player decided to make a "cause" out of it. And now...it's the hottest topic in the land.

[Fager Fan]

No...let me type very slowly...to make sure that YOU understand:

All this is just a bullshit excuse for some people like yourself...who can't help but praise this moron president of ours, no matter how ridiculous he sounds. I fully understand what the flag and the anthem stand for...but this isn't the first time that these "symbols of freedom and sacrifice" have been widely disrespected. They get disrespected when the athletes scratch their balls or joke around and spit during the anthem's recital...as well as when a Rosanne Barr-like character is asked to do the singing of it...or when some young "diva" is allowed to sing it in "her own unique style". And it's disrespected when it's being played in places like the OTBs throughout the land...where the "disrespect" for it reaches entirely new levels. I know...because I am there almost daily.

And this blatant "disrespect" never meant anything to anyone...until a single football player decided to make a "cause" out of it. And now...it's the hottest topic in the land.

You generally nailed it. We didn't like all those times when the flag was disrespected, and even liberals let it be known back in those days. But now the football player(s) made it a far bigger issue than it ever would've been if they'd let it die with CK. But they didn't. We let it go on for a year. Guess what? Tired of it. Liberals should be tired of it as well, but instead you're siding with the players because this is a finger to Trump, not support of the cause. So how screwed up is that?

And really, we want to talk about expectations of decency at an OTB?

[thaskalos]

You generally nailed it. We didn't like all those times when the flag was disrespected, and even liberals let it be known back in those days. But now the football player(s) made it a far bigger issue than it ever would've been if they'd let it die with CK. But they didn't. We let it go on for a year. Guess what? Tired of it. Liberals should be tired of it as well, but instead you're siding with the players because this is a finger to Trump, not support of the cause. So how screwed up is that?

And really, we want to talk about expectations of decency at an OTB?

If the anthem is so "sacred", and the OTBs so obviously "indecent"...then, why even bother to play it there? What next...the whorehouses?

[BaffertsWig]

But now the football player(s) made it a far bigger issue than it ever would've been if they'd let it die with CK. But they didn't. We let it go on for a year. Guess what? Tired of it.


Wait a second, the players made it a bigger issue? You do realize Trump is the one that escalated this whole thing faster than a match and a gallon of gasoline, right? If it bothers you that much, why don't you turn the channel? Why not take up a different sport to watch? How about swimming?

[Fager Fan]

If the anthem is so "sacred", and the OTBs so obviously "indecent"...then, why even bother to play it there? What next...the whorehouses?


It isn't my choice that they play it there.

[Fager Fan]

Wait a second, the players made it a bigger issue? You do realize Trump is the one that escalated this whole thing faster than a match and a gallon of gasoline, right? If it bothers you that much, why don't you turn the channel? Why not take up a different sport to watch? How about swimming?

Sure, he spoke out about it. If the players hadn't continued on for a year, then there'd have been nothing to speak out about.

I have turned the channel, thanks for asking.

[FantasticDan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNJUsE7pEs4

*MIC DROP* :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[upthecreek]

https://twitter.com/v_lesser/status/912665262557499397

[ElKabong]

https://twitter.com/v_lesser/status/912665262557499397


So the players that are "protesting" by not standing for the anthem are in violation of nfl code of conduct. Interesting.

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

https://twitter.com/v_lesser/status/912665262557499397

A little late for that, Mike Tomlin. We saw what you said and did.

[Valuist]

That's right, 8 years of Mr. "Hope and Change" Obama doing NOTHING about racial problems in this country, but 8 months of Trump and NOW we have this huge problem?

Ridiculously laughable....:lol::lol::lol::rip:

Obama did plenty. He made everything about race. Definitely made the problem worse.

[thaskalos]

If we think the NLF reaction is bad...wait until the NBA season comes around.

[FantasticDan]

https://twitter.com/jnsanchez/status/912292192454086656

[jimmyb]

Robin Williams as the American Flag

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_L1vLv84vs

[Tom]

:headbanger:Then I guess I'll have to stop watching the NFL until this stops, the same as not listening or watching what Kid Rock says or does......Next?

Didn't watch any NFL this weekend.
Don't know any scores but one - heard it on the local radio.
Bill won......got that one out of the way early this year. :lol:

Not a bit of interest in it.

Had to laugh - that pig on Buffalo - #25 doing his warm ups during the anthem. Jim Kelly called him out on it - and the Bills were upset. The pig said Kelly should not have gone public with his criticism - should have come to him in private.

What a total moron! The players are living at a third grade level.

Here is the reality of the NFL...

Get yourself an NFL franchise and you can buy, sell trade BLACK people. Make them work where you want them to, whether they like or not. You can be the MASSA. Tell them how to dress. Trick them into playing with concussions to keep 'em stupid.

The NFL.......where tradition matters.

Ass clowns. All of them.:pound:

[upthecreek]

https://www.google.com/amp/www.theroot.com/mo-bar-decides-putting-lynch-kaepernick-jerseys-down-a-1818857883/amp

[dartman51]

http://www.internationaljock.com/ca-rio-ca-brief-cut-brazilian-sunga-team-usa,74116.html?track=froogle&utm_source=frooglesite&utm_medium=feed&gclid=Cj0KCQjw9afOBRDWARIsAJW4nvxrd_IYZT5mC1HZ-Jqn5P87R7Y4JjDG8B8qLP0nlhOp2Lahd5H-0zcaAnB9EALw_wcB

"Wear the American flag proudly in front"...the ad says.

And not a complaint in sight from the Marine Colonels about this.


If they don't have 13 stripes and 50 stars, then it's NOT the American flag. Just someone throws a few stripes, and a hand full of stars on some material, and CALLING it an American flag, does NOT make it an American flag. :sleeping:

[Tom]

Yes. You're getting desperate to try to say clothing made of flag inspired material is disrespectful.

Calvin Klein sure doesn't think it's disrespectful to have his name emblazoned on underwear.

But Calvin is a dick!

[Fager Fan]

But Calvin is a dick!

You get a groan for that one, Tom. ;)