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VigorsTheGrey
09-05-2017, 02:50 PM
I would REALLY like there to be Purse amounts shown in racing lines...

How can this be accomplished?

Does the DRF and other suppliers of past performance information all get their information initially from a single source....? What is this source...Equibase?

It is not enough to show the class level only...a better indicator would be the purse amount(Rating) which I believe is a key handicapping factor, especially for determining class for new faces arriving at different venues...

Is there any way any of our PA group with DRF contacts could suggest this to managements...?

upthecreek
09-05-2017, 03:10 PM
They removed them probably 5 years ago or so
I use Bris PP generator with single file and you can set it up to show purse values

thaskalos
09-05-2017, 03:17 PM
The DRF probably removed the purse amounts so they could make room for those wonderful new "pace-flow" indicators that they now feature in their PPs. :ThmbUp:

classhandicapper
09-05-2017, 05:57 PM
Maiden Special Weight races typically have the purse noted.

Allowance races will typically have either the purse and condition or the claiming price and condition if it's an ALW optional claimer.

Graded Stakes have the Grade.

Listed and overnight stakes have the purse.

Most other races have the claiming price and other conditions if there are any.

In each case the idea is to give the most relevant information.

For more specific expanded information you can go to the charts.

thaskalos
09-05-2017, 05:59 PM
Maiden Special Weight races typically have the purse noted.

Allowance races will typically have either the purse and condition or the claiming price and condition if it's an ALW optional claimer.

Graded Stakes have the Grade.

Listed and overnight stakes have the purse.

Most other races have the claiming price and other conditions if there are any.

In each case the idea is to give the most relevant information.

For more specific expanded information you can go to the charts.

Thank you...we were unaware of all this. :ThmbUp:

upthecreek
09-05-2017, 08:46 PM
Maiden Special Weight races typically have the purse noted.

Allowance races will typically have either the purse and condition or the claiming price and condition if it's an ALW optional claimer.

Graded Stakes have the Grade.

Listed and overnight stakes have the purse.

Most other races have the claiming price and other conditions if there are any.

In each case the idea is to give the most relevant information.

For more specific expanded information you can go to the charts.

At on time they gave purse values for ALL races

VigorsTheGrey
09-05-2017, 10:21 PM
I don't know...I guess I wish that there was some indication of class level in the purse amounts...but nowadays, there appears to be some sort of purse inflation going on (with racinos?)...

At some venues the purses are worth more than the monetary value of the horses, I'm told...

Is a $40,000 claiming race at Saratoga with a high purse the same Class level as a $40,000 claiming race at Golden Gate Fields with a lower purse..?

Is it really relevant to know that a Stakes race had a purse of $150k versus one that had $151k..?
...Are Stakes races with a purse of $1 Million any different class wise from those with $750k or $500K...? Upper echelon races might have a maximum purse rating once they reach a certain purse level...

Yet the whole subject of class levels between Tracks and differing purse structures is very confusing for me...

The class level of any giving race is only as high, in realty, as the combined class levels of the horses racing in it, and is distinct from the Purse Amount...

There doesn't appear to be a one to one relationship here so I am really not sure what the varying purse amounts are telling us..This needs more discussion....But...

...it looks like there is enough white space in the DRF race line to incorporate a purse rating that utilizes ranges of purse levels so that every race, including foreign races, could have a purse rating associated with it...and thereby achieve a level of uniformity for ALL races...instead of omitting purse levels for some and reporting the levels for others on a somewhat arbitrary basis...no....?

Augenj
09-05-2017, 11:37 PM
...it looks like there is enough white space in the DRF race line to incorporate a purse rating that utilizes ranges of purse levels so that every race, including foreign races, could have a purse rating associated with it...and thereby achieve a level of uniformity for ALL races...instead of omitting purse levels for some and reporting the levels for others on a somewhat arbitrary basis...no....?
I agree. It's available in the Equibase Daily Race Cards (CSV format) and I use them to determine purse (class) changes for a horse - up, down, or the same. I don't post these "conditionals" but they can be significant, especially when combined with other conditions.

classhandicapper
09-06-2017, 03:13 PM
I don't know...I guess I wish that there was some indication of class level in the purse amounts...but nowadays, there appears to be some sort of purse inflation going on (with racinos?)...


Purses are a reasonable way of looking at quality in general, but there are way too many exceptions for it to be a reliable way of figuring out the class of a race. There are issues with statebreds, racino money, and if you really want to go nuts look at the purses at Kentucky Downs relative to the actual quality of those races.

Unfortunately, despite thinking about this for close to 40 years, I still don't think there is a perfect solution. The best you (or at least I) can do is look at the horses that were actually in the race and compare how well they ran relative to each other given their trips and how the track was playing.

For shippers I monitor how horses from different tracks/countries do when they ship locally (and vice versa). Eventually you get a feel for how the horses fit based on how they are spotted and how they do class to class.

JohnGalt1
09-06-2017, 04:43 PM
Is a $40,000 claiming race at Saratoga with a high purse the same Class level as a $40,000 claiming race at Golden Gate Fields with a lower purse..?

Is it really relevant to know that a Stakes race had a purse of $150k versus one that had $151k..?
...Are Stakes races with a purse of $1 Million any different class wise from those with $750k or $500K...? Upper echelon races might have a maximum purse rating once they reach a certain purse level...

Yet the whole subject of class levels between Tracks and differing purse structures is very confusing for me...

******
When I do my class rating number I rate all open $40k races equal, because it would cost a new owner $40 to claim the horse.

I rate state bred races 3 levels lower, NW2L two level lower, and NW3L one level lower.

I use 20% to separate levels. 40/32/25/20, etc.

My classifications are G1, G2, G3 is 2 levels below G2 Non grades $100 and up, 75/60/40, etc.

I use Bris pp generator and use the purse values. It comes in hand for Starter allowance races listed as s$0 that Tampa and others run which I rate as equal to the starter allowance value.

this is how I handle these iaaues.

classhandicapper
09-06-2017, 05:24 PM
******
When I do my class rating number I rate all open $40k races equal, because it would cost a new owner $40 to claim the horse.

I rate state bred races 3 levels lower, NW2L two level lower, and NW3L one level lower.

I use 20% to separate levels. 40/32/25/20, etc.

My classifications are G1, G2, G3 is 2 levels below G2 Non grades $100 and up, 75/60/40, etc.

I use Bris pp generator and use the purse values. It comes in hand for Starter allowance races listed as s$0 that Tampa and others run which I rate as equal to the starter allowance value.

this is how I handle these iaaues.

My experience is very similar.

Statebreds are problematical though. I don't use a standard adjustment. IMO, Florida and California breds are typically better than NY breds, which are better than some states, which are better than other states, and so on down the line. It's not very easy to sort them out state by state. They also change over time. NY breds are WAY better now than they were 20 years ago. For me, it's still a work in progress when it comes to some states. I go back to the race and look at the field.