DACA

[woodtoo]

AG Sessions to make announcement on DACA at 11;00 today.

They tried to make this PDJTs' issue but he wisely tosses it back in the lap of Congress "to have and to hold"! Till death (of DACA) do they part.

The Big Ugly begins.:headbanger:

[johnhannibalsmith]

The executive order hokey pokey. I bet the former beneficiaries aren't nearly so big on this ridiculous way of enacting policy these days.

[Clocker]

AG Sessions to make announcement on DACA at 11;00 today.

They tried to make this PDJTs' issue but he wisely tosses it back in the lap of Congress "to have and to hold"! Till death (of DACA) do they part.

"Back in the lap of Congress"? It was never in Congress.

It was created by a presidential executive order, and it can be killed the same way. Handing it off to Congress is passing the buck.

[Clocker]

Trump passes the buck to Congress.

The program will be frozen, with no new applicants, and no change to those already in the program. Trump tells Congress to come up with a fix.

From the NY Times:
The government will no longer accept new applications from undocumented immigrants to shield them from deportation under the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, known as DACA, administration officials announced Tuesday. But officials said about 800,000 current beneficiaries of the program will not be immediately affected by what they called an “orderly wind down” of former President Barack Obama’s policy.

President Trump signaled the move early Tuesday morning in a tweet, then Attorney General Jeff Sessions formally announced the move to shift the responsibility for the immigration issue to lawmakers.

“The program known as DACA that was effectuated under the Obama administration is being rescinded,” Mr. Sessions told reporters, adding that “The policy was implemented unilaterally, to great controversy and legal concern.”

[woodtoo]

"Back in the lap of Congress"? It was never in Congress.

It was created by a presidential executive order, and it can be killed the same way. Handing it off to Congress is passing the buck.

It is now. Get to work. Do something useful for a change, Congress!

[OntheRail]

"Back in the lap of Congress"? It was never in Congress.

It was created by a presidential executive order, and it can be killed the same way. Handing it off to Congress is passing the buck.

Which was an overreach in EO powers in 2012. Congress Shall make Bills the President signs them into LAW or Veto's it.
:popcorn:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyeJ55o3El0

[chadk66]

it's masterful on Trump's part. put it in the hands of those running for re-election next year. it'll bring more of the anti-trump R's out in the open and get them replaced.

[elysiantraveller]

it's masterful on Trump's part. put it in the hands of those running for re-election next year. it'll bring more of the anti-trump R's out in the open and get them replaced.

:lol::lol::lol:

I just can't anymore... everything this guy does is "masterful."

Instead of just following through on a campaign promise he just punts it to his party. When the GOP gets pounded in midterms and he faces a democrat controlled Congress how much of his agenda do you really anticipate getting accomplished. "Masterful" is not the word I would use...

[PaceAdvantage]

When the GOP gets pounded in midterms and he faces a democrat controlled Congress how much of his agenda do you really anticipate getting accomplished.You're bound to be right someday....maybe the midterms will be it.

[elysiantraveller]

You're bound to be right someday....maybe the midterms will be it.

I was right on North Korea. They instantly crossed the red line and Mattis and Tillerson were stuck walking back his statement.

Or is this another masterful move on his part? It's a way of keeping everything the same.

What's your take on it? You voted for the guy and he promised to put an end to it.

[PaceAdvantage]

I was right on North Korea. They instantly crossed the red line and Mattis and Tillerson were stuck walking back his statement.We'll see...you don't think Trump is going to do something in NK? Perhaps not everything is in place as of yet...

I'd be surprised if the red line crossing goes unpunished...when is the deadline by the way? I guess to you, it's come and gone already...

I give a little bit more leeway...but that's just me. Retaliation for crossing the red line doesn't necessarily have to be meted out within 12-24 hours...and sometimes it can't be...

[elysiantraveller]

We'll see...you don't think Trump is going to do something in NK? Perhaps not everything is in place as of yet...

I'd be surprised if the red line crossing goes unpunished...when is the deadline by the way? I guess to you, it's come and gone already...

I give a little bit more leeway...but that's just me. Retaliation for crossing the red line doesn't necessarily have to be meted out within 12-24 hours...and sometimes it can't be...

Hilarious.

With hours NK crossed it. Within hours both the Secretary of State and Defense were walking back the statement.

Again you voted for the guy how do you feel about him punting DACA?

[chadk66]

:lol::lol::lol:

I just can't anymore... everything this guy does is "masterful."

Instead of just following through on a campaign promise he just punts it to his party. When the GOP gets pounded in midterms and he faces a democrat controlled Congress how much of his agenda do you really anticipate getting accomplished. "Masterful" is not the word I would use...it's his best shot to get pro trump people in office in the mid terms. and that's exactly what is going to happen.

[JustRalph]

Mattis is playing KimJung like a fiddle. He's daring him to do something the whole world will condemn, then it will be carte Blanche

Trump put the DACA ball right where it belongs

[PaceAdvantage]

Hilarious.Why is everything hilarious with you? Are you OK?

I know you have to make a grand stand on everything Trump, because you were so wrong prior to the election...but really man...

Have at least a little perspective.

As for DACA, I have no clue as I haven't paid much if any attention to any of that.

Chalk it up to being a deplorable.

[classhandicapper]

If you believe DACA was unconstitutional to begin with, it belongs with Congress, not Trump. So he doing 100% exactly the correct thing to do.

Personally, I wish they would all just start telling the truth. All this immigration (legal, illegal, and temporary) is 95% about undercutting the cost of US labor and changing the voting demographics. Everything else is a flat out lie.

If it were up to me I wound't accept any new applicants, but I'd allow those already participating to continue as long as they are working, paying taxes, and staying out of trouble with the law. That's the morally decent thing to do even though it's not good for US labor.

The cost of labor is a function of the same laws of supply and demand as everything else. Keep bringing in people willing to work for peanuts because it's even worse in their own country and incomes will not rise to appropriate levels relative to profit margins in the US .

[Clocker]

it's masterful on Trump's part. put it in the hands of those running for re-election next year. it'll bring more of the anti-trump R's out in the open and get them replaced.
If DACA is a big issue to anyone, they would be voting Dem anyway.

For people that don't pay close attention to politics, the headline is that Trump could have killed DACA and he didn't. And he didn't build a wall and he didn't deport 11 million illegals. That is the immigration issue in a nutshell for the average guy on the street.

[PaceAdvantage]

Basically, Trump is a big nothing-burger...:lol:

So why do people get so upset? :lol::lol::lol:

[elysiantraveller]

If DACA is a big issue to anyone, they would be voting Dem anyway.

For people that don't pay close attention to politics, the headline is that Trump could have killed DACA and he didn't. And he didn't build a wall and he didn't deport 11 million illegals. That is the immigration issue in a nutshell for the average guy on the street.

Yeah... perhaps I'm not getting it but for a guy who ran on tougher immigration he sure isn't accomplishing much. This victory is a simple pen stroke and it's over. I fully expected it to be killed today. Yet somehow his supporters view this as another victory or smart move. Except later on when Congress keeps the program they will all blame them for something Trump could easily have solved himself.

Literally, pen stroke. Over. Meh, I'll kick it down to Congress.

[elysiantraveller]

Basically, Trump is a big nothing-burger...:lol:

So why do people get so upset? :lol::lol::lol:

I'm not upset with this at all. I just don't know why his supporters aren't.

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm not upset with this at all. I just don't know why his supporters aren't.I was referring to the bigger picture...seems like Trump does nothing really...so why are people so enraged with him (not his supporters, but those who hate him)?

If he's gotten nothing done, there shouldn't be much to be upset about...they should be happy, actually...oh...right...his tweets and his words...I forgot about that...:lol:

Anyway...what was Trump's pre-election stance on DACA...I don't remember...did he say outright he was going to abolish it?

[thaskalos]

If DACA is a big issue to anyone, they would be voting Dem anyway.

For people that don't pay close attention to politics, the headline is that Trump could have killed DACA and he didn't. And he didn't build a wall and he didn't deport 11 million illegals. That is the immigration issue in a nutshell for the average guy on the street.

It doesn't matter what Trump does...or doesn't do. Nor does it matter in the least if he fulfills any of his campaign promises. He kept the "hag" out of the White House...and that's all that 99% of his backers care about. As presidents go...Trump is the one with the smallest in-office itinerary...and he acknowledged this by refusing to attend any of the CIA security briefings that the newly-elected presidents typically attend.

Trump accomplished what he had to do...even BEFORE he was sworn in. The hag is gone...and that was the most important thing. The rest of the concerns are mere technicalities...to be left for the NEXT president to deal with.

[Clocker]

it's his best shot to get pro trump people in office in the mid terms. and that's exactly what is going to happen.

DACA won't be an issue in the mid terms. Jeff Sessions announced that the current program under the Executive Order will be phased out in 6 months. That would be around the end of February. As the deadline nears, Congress will go into the old Potomac Two-Step, also known as the Decision Deferral Dance.

So after the first of the year, the Republicans will introduce a bill to temporarily extend the program for another 6-12 months, claiming that they need more time to study the issue. :rolleyes:

The Dems will object that's too short a time, so they will compromise, maybe on 2 years. The Dems will have to vote for the extension, or they get the blame for killing the program.

[fast4522]

It doesn't matter what Trump does...or doesn't do. Nor does it matter in the least if he fulfills any of his campaign promises. He kept the "hag" out of the White House...and that's all that 99% of his backers care about. As presidents go...Trump is the one with the smallest in-office itinerary...and he acknowledged this by refusing to attend any of the CIA security briefings that the newly-elected presidents typically attend.

Trump accomplished what he had to do...even BEFORE he was sworn in. The hag is gone...and that was the most important thing. The rest of the concerns are mere technicalities...to be left for the NEXT president to deal with.

Policy is what elysiantraveller gets most of his indigestion from, policy equals agenda the federal government follows within the law. The policy of trade agreements are now being renegotiated and will have huge ramifications in business, the Trump Administration are looking to balance things with tariffs that will cost China big time. DACA is but a small zit on America's ass that it does not need, I expect the letter of the current law will carry. In the end our President needs leverage in dealing with morons like Kim Jong-un and if he gets it from China it will become part of any agreement with them. Imagine your business buys thousands of things like corrugated materials and other items used in your product that you sell inside our economy and each thing from China has a 10 cent tariff. It might be very difficult for China to pass that 10 cents on to you and your company if similar materials are available here inside the United States. The thought of any loss of market share will have Xi Jinping of China thinking of eliminating Kim Jong-un, if that occurs it will be something no American President was able to do in the last 70 years. A game changer that no legacy of any President could match.

[thaskalos]

Policy is what elysiantraveller gets most of his indigestion from, policy equals agenda the federal government follows within the law. The policy of trade agreements are now being renegotiated and will have huge ramifications in business, the Trump Administration are looking to balance things with tariffs that will cost China big time. DACA is but a small zit on America's ass that it does not need, I expect the letter of the current law will carry. In the end our President needs leverage in dealing with morons like Kim Jong-un and if he gets it from China it will become part of any agreement with them. Imagine your business buys thousands of things like corrugated materials and other items used in your product that you sell inside our economy and each thing from China has a 10 cent tariff. It might be very difficult for China to pass that 10 cents on to you and your company if similar materials are available here inside the United States. The thought of any loss of market share will have Xi Jinping of China thinking of eliminating Kim Jong-un, if that occurs it will be something no American President was able to do in the last 70 years. A game changer that no legacy of any President could match.

I understand...but I have a question to ask:

If NONE of this "trade agreement renegotiation" with China ever takes place...won't you still say that the Trump presidency was a "success" -- simply because it kept Hillary out of the White House?

[fast4522]

I understand...but I have a question to ask:

If NONE of this "trade agreement renegotiation" with China ever takes place...won't you still say that the Trump presidency was a "success" -- simply because it kept Hillary out of the White House?

Well Gus you are always are willing to look at things that are a no win to your ideology in a fair light. To answer your question honestly would be to admit that keeping Hillary out of the White House was monumental achievement, it simultaneously drove a stake into the globalist hearts. That can not be understated, and the real damage to the lefts agenda and the money George Soros wasted. In another thread you questioned freedoms we both enjoy but every normal person found unhappy with when ugliness became part of those freedoms. Times will test us all in mind when we look for answers that are not easy to get. You and I are so lucky that we are not the principals making decisions everyone else can disagree with.

[RunForTheRoses]

If DACA is a big issue to anyone, they would be voting Dem anyway.

For people that don't pay close attention to politics, the headline is that Trump could have killed DACA and he didn't. And he didn't build a wall and he didn't deport 11 million illegals. That is the immigration issue in a nutshell for the average guy on the street.

As an average guy on the street I wish he would do more but it is not like he's done noting especially compared to a HRC Administration.

http://www.vdare.com/articles/national-data-august-jobs-immigrant-population-falls-for-first-time-since-great-recession

He's also made some positive actions regarding Affirmative Action and lowering legal immigration.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/01/us/politics/trump-affirmative-action-universities.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/us/politics/trump-immigration.html

[DSB]

I understand...but I have a question to ask:

If NONE of this "trade agreement renegotiation" with China ever takes place...won't you still say that the Trump presidency was a "success" -- simply because it kept Hillary out of the White House?
You seem fixated with "kept Hillary out of the White House."

The way you phrase it, it sounds dismissive, as if that one thing is a trifle.

"Keeping Hillary out of the White House" entailed more than just preventing her fat ass from sitting in the oval office.

I, and I'd wager plenty of other people, recognized that if Clinton had been elected, the damage done to this country would have been irreparable.

1. She would have been able to make at least one, and perhaps three, Supreme Court appointments.

2. She would have been able to continue all of the "policies" of the previous administration concerning immigration. Full out open borders very well may have been the result.

Those two things were among the most vital reasons I wanted to "keep Hillary out of the White House." There are many more, but these were paramount.

So far, so good.

[thaskalos]

You seem fixated with "kept Hillary out of the White House."

The way you phrase it, it sounds dismissive, as if that one thing is a trifle.

"Keeping Hillary out of the White House" entailed more than just preventing her fat ass from sitting in the oval office.

I, and I'd wager plenty of other people, recognized that if Clinton had been elected, the damage done to this country would have been irreparable.

1. She would have been able to make at least one, and perhaps three, Supreme Court appointments.

2. She would have been able to continue all of the "policies" of the previous administration concerning immigration. Full out open borders very well may have been the result.

Those two things were among the most vital reasons I wanted to "keep Hillary out of the White House." There are many more, but these were paramount.

So far, so good.

I'm not trying to be "dismissive"...nor am I venturing an opinion as to the "importance" of keeping Hillary out of the White House. My apparent "fixation" with this phrase stems from the fact that I've seen it paraded by several prominent posters here, as the only necessary requirement that Trump had to fulfill in order for his presidency to be declared a "success".

As I said in my initial post here...by "keeping Hillary out of the White House", it seems that Trump has already satisfied the vast majority of his backers. Whatever he is able to accomplish next, is just a "bonus".

[woodtoo]

Good indeed!

[Clocker]

Announced at the White House press conference today, Trump doesn't want a DACA bill, he wants a comprehensive immigration reform bill. Apparently such a bill would include funding for The Wall. And apparently that is what he wants in 6 months, or he kills DACA.

President Donald Trump wants a comprehensive immigration-reform bill from Congress, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said Tuesday, following the rescinding of an Obama-era program. Asked if Trump would sign a stand-alone bill to reform the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, Sanders said "we can't just have one tweak to the immigration system." A comprehensive bill would include border control, she said. One of the first to pile on was former alt-right queen Ann Coulter, who stressed that this goes contrary to Trump long time campaign position of enforcement first, including a wall, and then we can discuss amnesty.

https://hotair.com/archives/2017/09/05/white-house-trump-doesnt-want-standalone-dream-bill-wants-something-comprehensive/

[davew]

It is going to take some time to get rid of the last administrations executive orders that are bypassing the constitution and rules of law.

[chadk66]

It is going to take some time to get rid of the last administrations executive orders that are bypassing the constitution and rules of law.exactly. Trump simply announced he will end the unconstitutional EO from obama in six months if congress (the only body that can actually change the law) doesn't decide how to handle it. If they don't we will return to the rule of law in six months. Pretty simple actually.

[Clocker]

exactly. Trump simply announced he will end the unconstitutional EO from obama in six months if congress (the only body that can actually change the law) doesn't decide how to handle it. If they don't we will return to the rule of law in six months.

The rule of law that Trump wants is to go along with DACA in exchange for Congress funding his wall.

[reckless]

The rule of law that Trump wants is to go along with DACA in exchange for Congress funding his wall.

Not with you on this line of thought, clock.

Trump knows DACA is unconstitutional and that he cannot personally undue it via Executive Order. If you don't believe that, d-load a number of Obama videos where he says 'DACA is unconstitutional; I know it, you know, Congress knows it.'

Obama said this a number of times -- and then he did an executive order in contrast.

Trump knows it is Congress that needs to correct DACA or any facsimilie. If the GOP thinks it's heartless then pass a law making DACA the law of the land. Never happen at this moment and Trump's move is one of many where he truly now begins to take over the Republican Party. Trust me on this. The clock is ticking on clowns such as Ryan, McConnell, and too many other establishment frauds.

Now, he has put the phony GOP in a corner. If DACA is oh so horrible as they claim, there should be no problem amending it into law. You agree on that, don't you?

As you should know by now, the squishy GOP lacks both the brainz and the ballz ... what the GOP probably doesn't know is that they will not be able to run for 2018 on the campaign issue of: 're-elect us so that we can kill DACA.' This GOP tactic won't work now and never again.

The funding of the Wall should be paid for by the US taxpayer -- it is a border issue and a security issue, and those who want this know we should pay for it.

Trump has erred in making 'Mexico paying for The Wall' as a campaign issue. Great sound bite and Trump has extracted a lot from this threat but we should pay for our security. I've been saying this since jump street.

Attaching funding for The Wall with DACA, Hurricanes Harvey and Irma, and any other Page One disaster is disingenuous at the margin. Border wall funding or DACA funding would be part of the Defense budget if I had my say.

chadk is right when he wrote that Trump has put the bullseye where it belongs -- on the GOP in Congress.

(GOP, 1856 - 2018)

[Clocker]

Not with you on this line of thought, clock.

Trump knows DACA is unconstitutional and that he cannot personally undue it via Executive Order.


Trump can do it legally. But despite campaign rhetoric, he doesn't want the political consequences of just killing it. He wants Congress to deal with the consequences. And it seems clear that if Congress passes a bill legalizing DACA, Trump will sign it.

Attaching funding for The Wall with DACA, Hurricanes Harvey and Irma, and any other Page One disaster is disingenuous at the margin.

Then why did the White House announce yesterday that Trump doesn't want a clean DACA bill, he wants a comprehensive immigration reform bill that includes DACA and the wall, among other things?

[reckless]

Trump can do it legally. But despite campaign rhetoric, he doesn't want the political consequences of just killing it. He wants Congress to deal with the consequences. And it seems clear that if Congress passes a bill legalizing DACA, Trump will sign it.

Then why did the White House announce yesterday that Trump doesn't want a clean DACA bill, he wants a comprehensive immigration reform bill that includes DACA and the wall, among other things?

Trump is immune to any political fallout. He knows whatever he does or say, the alt-left and their partners in this stupidity -- RINOs, pseudo conservatives, and deranged college professors -- will still do their best to bash him endlessly.

Trump ended DACA by this. That should not be overlooked.

Personally, I would have preferred a total executive order on all the issues he ran on. Round them up; build a Wall; arrest Hillary, and more!

If he did guys like yourself and the village idiot Paul Ryan would be whining ad nauseum: Trump should be impeached; it's Congresses' call on DACA, etc., etc. How dare he do these things? And yet, when he remotely seems to waver, the same critics now scold him. :lol::lol:

I am no friend of the GOP so I am glad Trump is exposing them once more for what they are: stupid, cowardly and owned by the Fortune 1000 globalists.

Trump is telling Congress: either shit or get off the pot. That's how I see this.

(GOP, 1856 - 2018)

[chadk66]

Trump is immune to any political fallout. He knows whatever he does or say, the alt-left and their partners in this stupidity -- RINOs, pseudo conservatives, and deranged college professors -- will still do their best to bash him endlessly.

Trump ended DACA by this. That should not be overlooked.

Personally, I would have preferred a total executive order on all the issues he ran on. Round them up; build a Wall; arrest Hillary, and more!

If he did guys like yourself and the village idiot Paul Ryan would be whining ad nauseum: Trump should be impeached; it's Congresses' call on DACA, etc., etc. How dare he do these things? And yet, when he remotely seems to waver, the same critics now scold him. :lol::lol:

I am no friend of the GOP so I am glad Trump is exposing them once more for what they are: stupid, cowardly and owned by the Fortune 1000 globalists.

Trump is telling Congress: either shit or get off the pot. That's how I see this.

(GOP, 1856 - 2018):ThmbUp:

[Clocker]

Trump ended DACA by this.

Not yet, he didn't. :popcorn:



Personally, I would have preferred a total executive order on all the issues he ran on. Round them up; build a Wall; arrest Hillary, and more!

If he did guys like yourself and the village idiot Paul Ryan would be whining ad nauseum How dare anyone "whine" about a president doing things in contravention of the Constitution? :faint:

[classhandicapper]

The rule of law that Trump wants is to go along with DACA in exchange for Congress funding his wall.

The number of people under DACA right now is not huge. Most are probably employed, paying taxes, and have not been in trouble with the law. Allowing them to continue working here probably makes sense on a number of levels (short term economic and political), especially if there are families involved.

(he can always toss anyone that has broken the law)

However, there is ZERO doubt in my mind that allowing foreign workers into the US undercuts US labor. So continuing this with new applicants should be unacceptable to someone that claims he wants to put US workers first.

What could be easier than a compromise that says current workers can stay but the program will be phased out in return for XYZ?

It's a win-win.

[DSB]

One thing I'd like to see if congress comes up with legislation on the subject:

Make it a felony for anyone who brings an underage illegal alien into the country. Every leftist politician sings "they came here through no fault of their own." Correct. But their being brought here was not faultless. It was the fault of their parents, who, not only broke the law in regards to their own coming in illegally, but brought another, or others, here against our laws.

Let's finally do something that doesn't reward this illegal activity but actually punishes it.

Maybe they would think twice about coming here illegally if there was a serious consequence for it.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

"Back in the lap of Congress"? It was never in Congress.

It was created by a presidential executive order, and it can be killed the same way. Handing it off to Congress is passing the buck.

He tried (Obama), and failed.

He then EO'd this bullshit DACA for us all to enjoy the last 5 years.

Our Congress can't do crap because they are a bunch of whining and sniveling shits. Mostly on the Dem side of the ledger.

How hard can this be? Give the current Dreamers a path to be Americans, and then shut that crap down.

[Clocker]

Surprise, surprise.

Fifteen states and the District of Columbia have filed a joint suit to stop Trump from freezing and eventually ending DACA. California says it will file its own suit because over 25% of DACA illegals live in that state.

http://www.kcbd.com/story/36303357/15-states-sue-trump-on-rollback-of-immigrant-protections

[DSB]

Surprise, surprise.

Fifteen states and the District of Columbia have filed a joint suit to stop Trump from freezing and eventually ending DACA. California says it will file its own suit because over 25% of DACA illegals live in that state.

http://www.kcbd.com/story/36303357/15-states-sue-trump-on-rollback-of-immigrant-protections
Let's hope it makes its way to the Supreme Court where it will be declared unconstitutional.

That would put an end to it for good. That is, unless congress cooks up something similar and Trump signs it.

The way Trump has been cozying up to Dems, who knows?

[classhandicapper]

Let's hope it makes its way to the Supreme Court where it will be declared unconstitutional.

That would put an end to it for good. That is, unless congress cooks up something similar and Trump signs it.

The way Trump has been cozying up to Dems, who knows?

I think it's very likely the workers that are already here going to be able to stay. Some work in high tech jobs for companies like Google. Facebook, Microsoft, and Apple.

The issue to me is whether these companies should be allowed to continue importing foreign workers in an effort to keep wages down or whether they should be forced to train and retrain Americans to do these jobs.

I got into the data processing field in 1980.

My first job was for Equitable Life Insurance company. I didn't take any programming or data processing classes in college. I got the job by taking an aptitude test and scoring well on it. They hired me, gave me a 6 week class, and brought me along slowly. Suddenly I had a career. They did the same thing for dozens of other people with no data processing background for years and years.

Now, if a company like that wants hire 15-20 new programmers, they would outsource the work or import them.

How exactly is that good for the US worker?

It's good for the shareholders of these companies that then look to avoid paying taxes on top of it.

[delayjf]

How hard can this be? Give the current Dreamers a path to be Americans, and then shut that crap down.

If you want to let them stay for humanitarian reasons fine, but that would not require that they be allowed to become citizens.

Now, if a company like that wants hire 15-20 new programmers, they would outsource the work or import them.

How exactly is that good for the US worker?


That's how the immigration argument needs to be framed - as a war against Americans.

[DSB]

I think it's very likely the workers that are already here going to be able to stay. Some work in high tech jobs for companies like Google. Facebook, Microsoft, and Apple.

The issue to me is whether these companies should be allowed to continue importing foreign workers in an effort to keep wages down or whether they should be forced to train and retrain Americans to do these jobs.

I got into the data processing field in 1980.

My first job was for Equitable Life Insurance company. I didn't take any programming or data processing classes in college. I got the job by taking an aptitude test and scoring well on it. They hired me, gave me a 6 week class, and brought me along slowly. Suddenly I had a career. They did the same thing for dozens of other people with no data processing background for years and years.

Now, if a company like that wants hire 15-20 new programmers, they would outsource the work or import them.

How exactly is that good for the US worker?

It's good for the shareholders of these companies that then look to avoid paying taxes on top of it.
I'd like to see a complete end to this illegal program so that there is one less "magnet" for illegals. How we deal with those already here is just one more little mess the Marxist in chief left us to deal with.

With regard to corporate taxes, I don't think we should automatically drop the corporate rate to 15% and pray that companies invest in America and American workers. I'd like to see the reduction come in the form of credits for action. For example, if a company trains and hires Americans, they get a tax break. If they build factories or set up businesses in America, they get a tax break.

Just handing them a big decrease in taxes guarantees nothing. For all we know, the extra cash could go for fat cat bonuses and dividends for shareholders. Then, they can continue to outsource and import cheap foreign labor - business as usual.

I'd like to prevent that, if possible.

[chadk66]

I don't understand how anybody could possibly believe they could determine who would meet the DACA requirements. I'm sure the lefties realize there is no way so they think they will just have to allow anybody that claims to meet the requirements to stay.

[kingfin66]

I think it's very likely the workers that are already here going to be able to stay. Some work in high tech jobs for companies like Google. Facebook, Microsoft, and Apple.

The issue to me is whether these companies should be allowed to continue importing foreign workers in an effort to keep wages down or whether they should be forced to train and retrain Americans to do these jobs.

I got into the data processing field in 1980.

My first job was for Equitable Life Insurance company. I didn't take any programming or data processing classes in college. I got the job by taking an aptitude test and scoring well on it. They hired me, gave me a 6 week class, and brought me along slowly. Suddenly I had a career. They did the same thing for dozens of other people with no data processing background for years and years.

Now, if a company like that wants hire 15-20 new programmers, they would outsource the work or import them.

How exactly is that good for the US worker?

It's good for the shareholders of these companies that then look to avoid paying taxes on top of it.

You are a smart person, but you sometimes have a very narrow and short-sighted view of the world. The issue is that tech companies have no choice but to import workers, because U.S. universities do not do well enough teaching the skills that they need. When the U.S. government effectively wages a war on immigration you can bet that companies will react. I expect the first company to do so will be Amazon. They are currently searching for a second world HQ, and you can bet that it will not be in the U.S.. Uncertainty about the ability to import the workers they need is going to be a problem.

I am glad that you were able to get some training in lieu of college back in 1980 and have a career. It's hard to believe that that was nearly 40 years ago. Things have changed a tad bit since then don't you think?

[tucker6]

You are a smart person, but you sometimes have a very narrow and short-sighted view of the world. The issue is that tech companies have no choice but to import workers, because U.S. universities do not do well enough teaching the skills that they need. When the U.S. government effectively wages a war on immigration you can bet that companies will react. I expect the first company to do so will be Amazon. They are currently searching for a second world HQ, and you can bet that it will not be in the U.S.. Uncertainty about the ability to import the workers they need is going to be a problem.

I am glad that you were able to get some training in lieu of college back in 1980 and have a career. It's hard to believe that that was nearly 40 years ago. Things have changed a tad bit since then don't you think?

I disagree. While what you state does indeed happen, my experience in working for a large multinational was that it is mostly a cost issue. We would bring in tons of Indians as engineers and IT workers. The main reason was cost. Indians were often 30-40% of the cost to hire an American and much easier to get rid of when the work fell off.

[DSB]

The issue is that tech companies have no choice but to import workers, because U.S. universities do not do well enough teaching the skills that they need. When the U.S. government effectively wages a war on immigration you can bet that companies will react.

When I see claims like this I have to ask a couple of questions:

1. Are we to believe that our universities can't compete with those in the third word countries where most of these imported workers come from?

2. Can't the truth be that these U.S. companies want to import workers because they are cheaper?

If what these companies are telling us is the truth - and I don't know if there is any way to verify their claims - then why don't these tech co's and the government combine forces to ensure that American workers can fill these positions? How about a program wherein a student gets some kind of tuition reimbursement upon graduation in a course of study which will lead to a job in the areas needed? Maybe a tuition pool that is funded by a portion of taxes collected from these co's.?

I happen to believe that what the co's are telling us is just an excuse to import cheaper labor. More people competing with citizens for U.S. jobs.

[jms62]

When I see claims like this I have to ask a couple of questions:

1. Are we to believe that our universities can't compete with those in the third word countries where most of these imported workers come from?

2. Can't the truth be that these U.S. companies want to import workers because they are cheaper?

If what these companies are telling us is the truth - and I don't know if there is any way to verify their claims - then why don't these tech co's and the government combine forces to ensure that American workers can fill these positions? How about a program wherein a student gets some kind of tuition reimbursement upon graduation in a course of study which will lead to a job in the areas needed? Maybe a tuition pool that is funded by a portion of taxes collected from these co's.?

I happen to believe that what the co's are telling us is just an excuse to import cheaper labor. More people competing with citizens for U.S. jobs.

100% True and it is the only excuse they can use cause reality would cause Outrage. Enrollment in IT related fields in college is down because the jobs aren't there for Americans. Indian companies own the pipeline meaning they are entrenched as headhunters and Indians are also in hiring positions at companies. They will hire Indians to Americans at a 10/1 ratio.

[chadk66]

we have to do exactly what Canada does. not allow any foreign workers to work in their country unless said company can prove that there isn't a Canadian available or able to do that job. If these tech companies had to prove that, you can bet your ass 99% or more wouldn't be hiring these foreigners.

[Clocker]

U.S. universities do not do well enough teaching the skills that they need.

And that's why companies have to have current workers train their replacements before they get laid off.

[delayjf]

The issue is that tech companies have no choice but to import workers, because U.S. universities do not do well enough teaching the skills that they need.

Per Clocker's example, the above certainly was not the case with Disney a while back. Anybody know what eventually happened regarding those tech workers at Disney?

[Tom]

I understand...but I have a question to ask:

If NONE of this "trade agreement renegotiation" with China ever takes place...won't you still say that the Trump presidency was a "success" -- simply because it kept Hillary out of the White House?

Was that a rhetorical question?

Of COURSE! :headbanger::headbanger::headbanger:

[Tom]

DACA is a problem because of......wait for it.....OBAMA-pajama-boy. From Reagan on, every president looked the other way and let the DACA idea happen. Obama wrote it down, so the courts then had something to rule one, and they did - it is the job of Congress, not the president. Trump played it the right way. Now, DACA will become a real law, as it should. Deporting this group of people is stupid. Much ado about nothing here.

Other than the brain-dead left has no clue what happened.

[reckless]

I know the lefties, RINOs and the pseudo conservatives just love to find fault with President Donald John Trump, on everything he says and does, the last being his DACA decision.

To set the record straight, especially to all the know-it-alls, Trump did what he did for two reasons: (1) to force the phony GOP establishment to show their voters where they really stand on this issue; (2) 21(?) states were lined up to sue the Federal government immediately; Trump ended that threat.

Now, for all the phony liberals who bow at the immoral feet of Chuck Schumer, Hillary! and Barry Obama, in addition to those who that feel Trump was just simply being mean, here's a very brief, but educational video. Enjoy.

http://710wor.iheart.com/featured/mark-simone/content/2017-09-12-watch-schumer-vs-schumer-the-greatest-flip-flop-ever-on-daca/

[classhandicapper]

The issue is that tech companies have no choice but to import workers, because U.S. universities do not do well enough teaching the skills that they need. When the U.S. government effectively wages a war on immigration you can bet that companies will react. I expect the first company to do so will be Amazon. They are currently searching for a second world HQ, and you can bet that it will not be in the U.S.. Uncertainty about the ability to import the workers they need is going to be a problem.

I am glad that you were able to get some training in lieu of college back in 1980 and have a career. It's hard to believe that that was nearly 40 years ago. Things have changed a tad bit since then don't you think?

My training class had around 20 people in it. There were people with math degrees, history degrees, liberal arts degrees, no degrees etc.. The one thing they had in common was that they were smart enough to pass the aptitude test.

There is absolutely nothing preventing a US company from giving people aptitude tests for technology and other high skilled jobs now and then training them like they did 40 years ago other than they would rather undercut US workers and try to avoid taxes.

I'm calling BS on that. It's a tough competitive world, but if you are dong business here, you should be either being hiring American workers or paying US taxes (you should probably be doing a lot of both).

[chadk66]

we need to do what Canada does. force employers to prove an American is not available or not qualified for a job before they can hire a foreigner. And they would have to provide some solid proof. Which would mean there would never be a foreigner hired. This would never happen because the medical community would fold.