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mountainman
08-22-2017, 10:07 AM
I stand proudly for the anthem, but support the right of others to kneel, turn their backs, or downright disrespect our flag. In my opinion, that right proves how strong and noble our flag IS.

But from a business standpoint, if NFL owners feel they are being used for a platform, or the forum they provide exploited at real cost to their brand and financial interests, why no simply STOP PLAYING THE ANTHEM.

Not everything is about politics. And there would be nothing unpatriotic about shutting down the anthem before games. Owners are not required to provide players with any particular opportunity to protest.

And before you call such a potential move cowardly, I'll reiterate..not everything is about God and country..the NFL HAS EVERY RIGHT TO PROTECT ITS BRAND AND FINANCIAL INTERESTS.

And I would LOVE to see protesters demand with a straight face that the anthem be resumed-just so they can display contempt for it. How ridiculous would THAT be??????

woodbinepmi
08-22-2017, 12:58 PM
Or you could play it while they are still in the locker room.

ReplayRandall
08-22-2017, 01:42 PM
The NFL HAS EVERY RIGHT TO PROTECT ITS BRAND AND FINANCIAL INTERESTS.

The NFL doesn't exist without those who've served and protected our country. If paying respect to that sacrifice by standing for the anthem doesn't suit you, I suggest a mandated trip to Arlington cemetery for those who don't wish to stand. If you refuse to go to Arlington, then you're suspended indefinitely until you do. If you do go, and you still refuse to honor their sacrifice, then you just don't understand the meaning and purpose of why you've been blessed to live in a country where someone else put their lives on the line for YOUR freedom, thus making $millions playing in the NFL....Go be a rebel in the Canadian Football League, I'm sure they'd love you there...:rolleyes:

The NFL is taking a public relations BEATING on this issue, they couldn't have handled it any worse.....Goodell is the worst Comish of any sport in my lifetime.

delayjf
08-22-2017, 01:54 PM
How about playing the anthem and simply not showing the players who are kneeling. Perhaps fans should start boycotting the products the NFL advertises. I'd be down with that.

Dave Schwartz
08-22-2017, 03:39 PM
I am sure that Pat Tillman would be taking a knee if he was out there.
(Yes, that was sarcasm.)


I have the right to my own protest just as Kaepernick and the others have a right to protest, and if the NFL does this, I will show my disagreement by not watching a single game this year.


I am sure that most veterans (myself included) would say that "protest" is a valid way to stand for a cause, and rightful, at that. However, the venue for protest should be appropriate. If an NFL player wants to hold a press conference, fine.

...But. IMHO, what they are doing is called DISRESPECT for the country that supports them; that has given them all that they have.

Just my opinion. Yours may be different.


Dave Schwartz

jimmyb
08-22-2017, 05:05 PM
:ThmbUp::ThmbUp:The NFL doesn't exist without those who've served and protected our country. If paying respect to that sacrifice by standing for the anthem doesn't suit you, I suggest a mandated trip to Arlington cemetery for those who don't wish to stand. If you refuse to go to Arlington, then you're suspended indefinitely until you do. If you do go, and you still refuse to honor their sacrifice, then you just don't understand the meaning and purpose of why you've been blessed to live in a country where someone else put their lives on the line for YOUR freedom, thus making $millions playing in the NFL....Go be a rebel in the Canadian Football League, I'm sure they'd love you there...:rolleyes:

The NFL is taking a public relations BEATING on this issue, they couldn't have handled it any worse.....Goodell is the worst Comish of any sport in my lifetime.

:ThmbUp:

FantasticDan
08-22-2017, 05:18 PM
I don't really get the original post. It's an actual thing that these protests have damaged a team or owner's bottom line? Didn't Kapernick's jersey become the #1 seller after he started his protest?

If any team actually decided to suspend the anthem, the blow back from that would be a million times worse than anything you might be seeing now.

jimmyb
08-22-2017, 05:23 PM
I am sure that Pat Tillman would be taking a knee if he was out there.
(Yes, that was sarcasm.)


I have the right to my own protest just as Kaepernick and the others have a right to protest, and if the NFL does this, I will show my disagreement by not watching a single game this year.


I am sure that most veterans (myself included) would say that "protest" is a valid way to stand for a cause, and rightful, at that. However, the venue for protest should be appropriate. If an NFL player wants to hold a press conference, fine.

...But. IMHO, what they are doing is called DISRESPECT for the country that supports them; that has given them all that they have.

Just my opinion. Yours may be different.


Dave Schwartz

You'll have to speak for yourself. I hold an honorable discharge fron the U.S. Army (1971-1973). I had a surgical consult the the VA Jamaica Plain hospital today. I was watching television in th Pharmacy waiting are with a couple of dozen other vets. The TV had a sports show on when a video of Kapernick appeared. Negative comments and groans with the calls of change the channel. Not one Vet said, 'awwww. c'mon guys, he's right'. I met a guy with two prostetic legs and patched up holes in his right arm. He wears a bandana on his head to cover his wounds. I've not shared this here, but I live in veterans housing. 15 in my building, 9 next door and nine next door to that. We talk sports often and to a man, nobody thinks much of Kapernick. We don't think he's getting a rotten deal, and an overwhelmingly majority of vets feel the same.

Speak for yourself. I have my own mouth, eyes and ears. If it bans me because you are a paid PA vendor, so be it.

jms62
08-22-2017, 05:37 PM
You'll have to speak for yourself. I hold an honorable discharge fron the U.S. Army (1971-1973). I had a surgical consult the the VA Jamaica Plain hospital today. I was watching television in th Pharmacy waiting are with a couple of dozen other vets. The TV had a sports show on when a video of Kapernick appeared. Negative comments and groans with the calls of change the channel. Not one Vet said, 'awwww. c'mon guys, he's right'. I met a guy with two prostetic legs and patched up holes in his right arm. He wears a bandana on his head to cover his wounds. I've not shared this here, but I live in veterans housing. 15 in my building, 9 next door and nine next door to that. We talk sports often and to a man, nobody thinks much of Kapernick. We don't think he's getting a rotten deal, and an overwhelmingly majority of vets feel the same.

Speak for yourself. I have my own mouth, eyes and ears. If it bans me because you are a paid PA vendor, so be it.

Maybe I can't read but I think you and Dave are on the same side of this issue.

FantasticDan
08-22-2017, 05:38 PM
Maybe I can't read but I think you and Dave are on the same side of this issue.No, you're good. :ThmbUp: :D

jimmyb
08-22-2017, 05:57 PM
Maybe I can't read but I think you and Dave are on the same side of this issue.

After re reaeding, yes it did and I apologize to Dave. I get to the part where it says he has a right to protest, and after the day had, my blood starts boiling and I see red and thats it.


Again, I apologize. But for anyone else that believes Kapernick is in the right, I'd challenge you , as RR so eloquently stated, to spend some time at a VA hospital, visit a veterans cemetery. Volunteer at a veterans homeless shelter. You will see many of the dead, wounded and spirit that these men sacrificed. Some are broken physically, some mentally and will carry these scars for life.

Try serving as these men and women have, to protect your azzhole right to earn millions and have the audacity to complain about how tough things are.

Sweet Jesus, many Americans are incredibly fortunate but can see past their nose.

jimmyb
08-22-2017, 06:33 PM
I stand proudly for the anthem, but support the right of others to kneel, turn their backs, or downright disrespect our flag. In my opinion, that right proves how strong and noble our flag IS.

But from a business standpoint, if NFL owners feel they are being used for a platform, or the forum they provide exploited at real cost to their brand and financial interests, why no simply STOP PLAYING THE ANTHEM.

Not everything is about politics. And there would be nothing unpatriotic about shutting down the anthem before games. Owners are not required to provide players with any particular opportunity to protest.

And before you call such a potential move cowardly, I'll reiterate..not everything is about God and country..the NFL HAS EVERY RIGHT TO PROTECT ITS BRAND AND FINANCIAL INTERESTS.

And I would LOVE to see protesters demand with a straight face that the anthem be resumed-just so they can display contempt for it. How ridiculous would THAT be??????

Kapernick owes me and anyone else who served in the military this courtesy. And you owe us the same.

Dave Schwartz
08-22-2017, 07:27 PM
You'll have to speak for yourself. I hold an honorable discharge fron the U.S. Army (1971-1973). I had a surgical consult the the VA Jamaica Plain hospital today. I was watching television in th Pharmacy waiting are with a couple of dozen other vets. The TV had a sports show on when a video of Kapernick appeared. Negative comments and groans with the calls of change the channel. Not one Vet said, 'awwww. c'mon guys, he's right'. I met a guy with two prostetic legs and patched up holes in his right arm. He wears a bandana on his head to cover his wounds. I've not shared this here, but I live in veterans housing. 15 in my building, 9 next door and nine next door to that. We talk sports often and to a man, nobody thinks much of Kapernick. We don't think he's getting a rotten deal, and an overwhelmingly majority of vets feel the same.

Speak for yourself. I have my own mouth, eyes and ears. If it bans me because you are a paid PA vendor, so be it.

Jimmy, you've not offended me. Everyone has a right to their opinion.

I thought I made it pretty clear that I was speaking for myself. Did I not?

But I must admit that I am confused. Are you saying that you are in favor of or alright with them not playing the anthem so that some people would not be offended?

Dave

jimmyb
08-22-2017, 08:03 PM
Jimmy, you've not offended me. Everyone has a right to their opinion.

I thought I made it pretty clear that I was speaking for myself. Did I not?


But I must admit that I am confused. Are you saying that you are in favor of or alright with them not playing the anthem so that some people would not be offended?

Dave

Like I said, after the day I had, spending most of it at the Jamaica Plain hospital, reading the big ego of the mountains post, and getting to this part of your post "I am sure that most veterans (myself included) would say that "protest" is a valid way to stand for a cause" I took this to mean you validated Kapernicks protest. I was corrected by Dan and JMS and apologize.

I never said it was okay not to play the anthem, that was from the mountain mouth, not me. Quite the contrary. We, us, you, anyone that served in the military is owed the courtesy of standing during it's playing. Protesting anything while it is behing played dishonors us.

"A veteran - whether active duty, retired, or national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America, and to that puke Kapernick, for an amount of "up to and including THEIR LIVES, Our lives"



He owes us.

mountainman
08-22-2017, 08:39 PM
Lol.Kapernick owes me and anyone else who served in the military this courtesy. And you owe us the same.

If you continue to twist my words, you and I have a big problem..


What part of " I stand proudly for our anthem" is difficult to interpret. And I never said I agree with Kapernicks stance- just that he has the right to protest. In fact, plausible or not, I proposed a way to stop the protests. So knock it off. Personally, I think the guy is an insincere and ill-informed spokesman for his own cause. But, do you REALLY want to live in a country that would compel him to stand???? They do that in North Korea.

AltonKelsey
08-22-2017, 09:17 PM
I don't know mountainman (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/member.php?u=1045), pulling the anthem would be tantamount to caving, no?

How about we take all the statues they don't like down, so they can't object to something that 'offends' them.

Hearing some talk that the snowflakes have their eyes set on GRANTS TOMB of all things.

No, I think we make it as uncomfortable and difficult as legally possible for that idiot kaepernick (https://www.google.com/search?num=50&q=kaepernick&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj4l9bHl-zVAhVB4IMKHULHDN0QvwUIJSgA).

jimmyb
08-22-2017, 09:22 PM
Lol.

If you continue to twist my words, you and I have a big problem..


What part of " I stand proudly for our anthem" is difficult to interpret. And I never said I agree with Kapernicks stance- just that he has the right to protest. In fact, plausible or not, I proposed a way to stop the protests. So knock it off. Personally, I think the guy is an insincere and ill-informed spokesman for his own cause. But, do you REALLY want to live in a country that would compel him to stand???? They do that in North Korea.


What are you gonna do, beat me up? LOL I know, you lifted weights and that makes you a badass, you have whales backing you and that makes you connected. Save the tough talk for Nancy and your viewers.

You and your like need to stop validating pukes like Kapernick. Leave the anthem alone and keep honoring the flag and we won't have a problem.

mountainman
08-22-2017, 10:47 PM
What are you gonna do, beat me up? LOL I know, you lifted weights and that makes you a badass, you have whales backing you and that makes you connected. Save the tough talk for Nancy and your viewers.

You and your like need to stop validating pukes like Kapernick. Leave the anthem alone and keep honoring the flag and we won't have a problem.

Let's dial things down a bit. I'm not validating Kapernick, nor do I agree with his points of protest. In fact, I think he's an attention whore who would NEVER have started this controversy while he still had a starting job. But I AM validating a flag strong enough to tolerate protest. In my opinion, such tolerance is one thing (not the only thing or even the biggest thing) that makes our country so special and strong. And one of the things those soldiers died for.

And I don't see discontinuing the anthem as surrender, but instead as a way of pulling the rug out from protesters-the only legal way to stop these displays that so many find repugnant.

Otherwise, get used to it..the kneeling will never stop. And I would bet my LIFE it would be the protesters, not patriots, who would complain loudest were the anthem discontinued at nfl games.

Please, stop calling me names and questioning my patriotism. I love this country as much as you do, and would not presume to question yours,

mountainman
08-22-2017, 10:50 PM
I don't know mountainman (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/member.php?u=1045), pulling the anthem would be tantamount to caving, no?

How about we take all the statues they don't like down, so they can't object to something that 'offends' them.

Hearing some talk that the snowflakes have their eyes set on GRANTS TOMB of all things.

No, I think we make it as uncomfortable and difficult as legally possible for that idiot kaepernick (https://www.google.com/search?num=50&q=kaepernick&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj4l9bHl-zVAhVB4IMKHULHDN0QvwUIJSgA).

In my opinion just a clever way-the only legal way- to pull the rug out from under Kapernick,

And don't get me started on the destroying of statues and revising of history. The protesters don't have THAT right.

ReplayRandall
08-22-2017, 11:28 PM
In my opinion just a clever way-the only legal way- to pull the rug out from under Kapernick,

And don't get me started on the destroying of statues and revising of history. The protesters don't have THAT right.

I'm sorry MM, but the way I see things, if we pull the anthem Kapernick and his ilk get EXACTLY what they wanted and win......99% of everybody else loses. That's insanity, plain and simple.

Let me just add this....What Kapernick and his ilk are doing is laughable when compared to the real impact of a TRUE civil rights protest almost 50 years ago:

https://youtu.be/FOVTKN7fVBI

mountainman
08-23-2017, 07:51 AM
I'm sorry MM, but the way I see things, if we pull the anthem Kapernick and his ilk get EXACTLY what they wanted and win......99% of everybody else loses. That's insanity, plain and simple.

Let me just add this....What Kapernick and his ilk are doing is laughable when compared to the real impact of a TRUE civil rights protest almost 50 years ago:

https://youtu.be/FOVTKN7fVBI

The LAST thing they want is the anthem discontinued at games. The want the chance to visibly protest. And the owners don't owe them that.

This is a fight that patriots cant win. The more people complain about the protests, the louder and more widespread the protests become. Even uncle sam has the right and option to be cagey sometimes and not lead with his chin.

jimmyb
08-23-2017, 09:07 AM
The LAST thing they want is the anthem discontinued at games. The want the chance to visibly protest. And the owners don't owe them that.

This is a fight that patriots cant win. The more people complain about the protests, the louder and more widespread the protests become. Even uncle sam has the right and option to be cagey sometimes and not lead with his chin.


"A senior colleague asked why I liked being involved in soccer so much. I said, they don't play the anthem. The next game, everyone stood while the anthem crackled over the PA system. The administrator looked at me and said **** you."


Not my words but I liked how it played out. I'm done discussing.

mountainman
08-23-2017, 10:13 AM
"A senior colleague asked why I liked being involved in soccer so much. I said, they don't play the anthem. The next game, everyone stood while the anthem crackled over the PA system. The administrator looked at me and said **** you."


Not my words but I liked how it played out. I'm done discussing.

Fair enough. I respect your opinion-and you made some points in your favor. Even patriots can disagree.

PaceAdvantage
08-23-2017, 10:25 AM
Speak for yourself. I have my own mouth, eyes and ears. If it bans me because you are a paid PA vendor, so be it.Why in the world would the thought of being banned over a debate in off topic about protesting the NA ever cross your mind, even IF it's with someone who is an advertiser? It's off topic...lol

Weird, man...I must have some reputation....:lol:

Parkview_Pirate
08-23-2017, 11:48 AM
IMHO, Kaepernick's "right" to kneel during the national anthem ends when he puts on his uniform. His "protest" has never been about how minorities are treated, he's simply trying to figure out a way to call attention to himself, and to distract attention away from his poor performance.

Now his supporters want a boycott if he's not signed by a team:

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2017/08/20/kaepernick-supporters-call-for-nfl-boycott.html

There's some serious irony for ya - boycott the league for not signing a guy who has clearly demonstrated he's not a team player.

The NFL should simply fine, then suspend, players who don't show enough respect to stand during the national anthem. Problem solved.

Jess Hawsen Arown
08-23-2017, 11:56 AM
I stand proudly for the anthem, but support the right of others to kneel, turn their backs, or downright disrespect our flag. In my opinion, that right proves how strong and noble our flag IS.



It depends what you mean by "support." Do I support the right of free speech and free expression. Absolutely.

But "support" can also mean that you are behind what they are doing -- as in SUPPORT our troops. In that vein, I support our troops, but not this dishonorable, disrespecting scum which gets no support from me.

These people are scum. The anthem was written as Americans were dying so that said scum making millions of dollars, and the rest of us could live in the most amazing nation in the history of the world.

AltonKelsey
08-23-2017, 12:41 PM
I vote they play the Anthem TWICE

mountainman
08-23-2017, 12:46 PM
It depends what you mean by "support." Do I support the right of free speech and free expression. Absolutely.

But "support" can also mean that you are behind what they are doing -- as in SUPPORT our troops. In that vein, I support our troops, but not this dishonorable, disrespecting scum which gets no support from me.

These people are scum. The anthem was written as Americans were dying so that said scum making millions of dollars, and the rest of us could live in the most amazing nation in the history of the world.

Their is nothing ambiguous about "support their right to kneel." That wording in no way implies solidarity with the protesting point of view.

Agreement with Kapernick's position would be worded in far different terms. And , for the 10th time, I clearly stated that I, in fact, DISAGREE with his point of view.

I think you guys understand english very well, but just want a straw man to vent on.

AltonKelsey
08-23-2017, 02:00 PM
I think you guys understand english very well, but just want a straw man to vent on.

Well, at least you can't say, pick on someone your own size :)

mountainman
08-23-2017, 02:24 PM
Well, at least you can't say, pick on someone your own size :)

LOL..I've been whipped by smaller guys, but have upset some big bad opponents..but can assure you, i've had my last altercation...too old..too slow..too sane ( i hope)..still have bad temper, but have(finally) learned to walk away...in fact, i've spouted enough on this topic, and it aint cool to insist on the last word..so i'm out...

btw---i think Kapernick would have a job if he actually COULD perform...the guy stunk it up in his last several outings

jimmyb
08-23-2017, 02:46 PM
Why in the world would the thought of being banned over a debate in off topic about protesting the NA ever cross your mind, even IF it's with someone who is an advertiser? It's off topic...lol

Weird, man...I must have some reputation....:lol:

I have seen others get banned for various reasons. Don't know what your criteria is for banning.

I do know that name calling is one of the things not tolerated. For a number of reasons/excuses I lost my cool. I apologized to Dave and am now apologizing to MM for my name calling and temper. I apologize to you for my assuming you would ban me. I am not happy with myself for the treatment and disrespect I showed to Dave and MM. I probably deserve some sort of reprimand at least.

I still feel strongly about the stated issues but probably should have counted ten. Or maybe to ten thousand before responding.

olddaddy
08-23-2017, 03:16 PM
Or you could play it while they are still in the locker room.


The anthem is played before the horses come on the track. Same can be done in nfl. Very easy solution and a good call by you.

Dahoss9698
08-23-2017, 04:09 PM
Apologize if this was mentioned already but how about if the media stopped reporting on people kneeling during the anthem?

I respect the players right to do so, even though I disagree, but the only reason it's a big deal is because the media keeps bringing it up.

Treat it like when a fan runs on the field. They don't show it because they don't want to give the people more attention.

mountainman
08-23-2017, 04:10 PM
I have seen others get banned for various reasons. Don't know what your criteria is for banning.

I do know that name calling is one of the things not tolerated. For a number of reasons/excuses I lost my cool. I apologized to Dave and am now apologizing to MM for my name calling and temper. I apologize to you for my assuming you would ban me. I am not happy with myself for the treatment and disrespect I showed to Dave and MM. I probably deserve some sort of reprimand at least.

I still feel strongly about the stated issues but probably should have counted ten. Or maybe to ten thousand before responding.

Tx, sir. But no need. It's an incendiary topic, and I'm the one who brought it up. No offense taken-and hopefully none given.

ReplayRandall
08-23-2017, 04:14 PM
Tx, sir. But no need. It's an incendiary topic, and I'm the one who brought it up. No offense taken-and hopefully none given.

:ThmbUp:

ElKabong
08-23-2017, 05:02 PM
Or you could play it while they are still in the locker room.

Been quite a while since I've been to a high school game, but that was the protocol here for many years.... The home band plays the anthem, then a minute or so later the teams come on the field. Same for college games.

As a vet it doesn't bother me too much anymore what attention whores do. Just have to realize they're taking a Look At Me moment. The last laugh always belong to the consumer tho.

Dave Schwartz
08-23-2017, 05:59 PM
Apologize if this was mentioned already but how about if the media stopped reporting on people kneeling during the anthem?

I respect the players right to do so, even though I disagree, but the only reason it's a big deal is because the media keeps bringing it up.

Treat it like when a fan runs on the field. They don't show it because they don't want to give the people more attention.

Hoss,

Trying to get the media to not report something that will bring people to the TV is just never gonna happen.

Good idea, though.

kingfin66
08-23-2017, 10:37 PM
LOL..I've been whipped by smaller guys, but have upset some big bad opponents..but can assure you, i've had my last altercation...too old..too slow..too sane ( i hope)..still have bad temper, but have(finally) learned to walk away...in fact, i've spouted enough on this topic, and it aint cool to insist on the last word..so i'm out...

btw---i think Kapernick would have a job if he actually COULD perform...the guy stunk it up in his last several outings

I know that you said that you were out of the discussion, but this last line caught my eye. In my opinion, Kaepernick is definitely one of the top 64 quarterbacks in the NFL. It is arguable, given the dearth of QB talent in the league, that he is one of the 32 best. His performance was down from prior years, but much of that can be attributed to injuries and his not being fully recovered. This is coming from someone who is far from a fan of his. I think his not being signed is 100 percent about his protest and 0 percent about his talent.

ElKabong
08-24-2017, 12:31 AM
I know that you said that you were out of the discussion, but this last line caught my eye. In my opinion, Kaepernick is definitely one of the top 64 quarterbacks in the NFL. It is arguable, given the dearth of QB talent in the league, that he is one of the 32 best. His performance was down from prior years, but much of that can be attributed to injuries and his not being fully recovered. This is coming from someone who is far from a fan of his. I think his not being signed is 100 percent about his protest and 0 percent about his talent.

Your last sentence has a lot of merit, but... His protest can affect a team's performance. Players sending time answering questions about him can wear a team down after awhile

In my forty plus years of full time employment I can assure you I've seen many a decent to marginal employee get shown the door because of conflicts, be it personality, being overly opinionated etc... Just because he's one of the best 64 qb's in the game (not a given by any means) doesn't mean anything in the big picture.

Just listening to jerry jones, you know for sure he would run out Ryan leaf before he went after Kapernick. That's just the way it is.

Inner Dirt
08-24-2017, 11:29 AM
What I don't understand is most people do not even consider the fact that Kaepernick sat during the anthem while wearing the uniform of the San Francisco 49ers and while being paid by them. If someone is fine with his behavior they should also have no problem with the waitress at Denny's handing them religious pamphlets with their menus. If I owned the 49ers I would have waved him on the spot and had him removed from the premises. Let him protest all he wants in street clothes and when he is off the clock.

mountainman
08-24-2017, 03:47 PM
Your last sentence has a lot of merit, but... His protest can affect a team's performance. Players sending time answering questions about him can wear a team down after awhile

In my forty plus years of full time employment I can assure you I've seen many a decent to marginal employee get shown the door because of conflicts, be it personality, being overly opinionated etc... Just because he's one of the best 64 qb's in the game (not a given by any means) doesn't mean anything in the big picture.

Just listening to jerry jones, you know for sure he would run out Ryan leaf before he went after Kapernick. That's just the way it is.

But has it EVER been about the 64 gosh darn bye golly level best quarterbacks filling those spots>>>?? Teams have different needs and wish lists for a backup...experience with the system, tolerance for not playing..physical upside, even future coaching smarts?? etc..etc..so why, now that kapernick is unemployed, must the nfl prove beyond doubt that the best 64 have somehow been magically identified and hired????

Backup quarterbacks can be strange birds and bring a variety of qualifications to the job.

Inner Dirt
08-24-2017, 04:11 PM
Kaepernick also has issues unrelated to his play above and beyond disrespecting the flag. He wore socks to practice with cartoon pigs in police uniforms. He wore a Castro shirt and praised Castro for Cuba's education system. He also posted a police badge next to a badge of a runaway slave patrol. His girlfriend posted a picture of Ray Lewis and the Ravens owner and implied they were slave owner and Uncle Tom.

So between him and his girlfriend he has called cops pigs and runaway slave catchers, praised a brutal dictator, disrespected a sacred symbol in the USA flag, implied an NFL owner was a slave owner and Ray Lewis was an Uncle Tom. The guy is a first class piece of classless trash. I just hope he ends up bankrupt like a lot of ex-NFL players do, I will laugh my ass off it that happens.

Dave Schwartz
08-24-2017, 04:12 PM
To ignore Kaepernick's impact on the balance sheet would just be a bad business move.

While it might be worth it for a super star, or even a star, I don't think any franchise should do it for a 2nd stringer.

proximity
08-24-2017, 06:10 PM
kaepernick could be signed to a practice squad after the big cut. I wouldn't let him anywhere near the field though unless he's gonna stand for the anthem.

Parkview_Pirate
08-24-2017, 07:07 PM
I know that you said that you were out of the discussion, but this last line caught my eye. In my opinion, Kaepernick is definitely one of the top 64 quarterbacks in the NFL. It is arguable, given the dearth of QB talent in the league, that he is one of the 32 best. His performance was down from prior years, but much of that can be attributed to injuries and his not being fully recovered. This is coming from someone who is far from a fan of his. I think his not being signed is 100 percent about his protest and 0 percent about his talent.

When he first came in the league, I thought he was the real deal and going to be one of the elite players of the game. Maybe injuries have something to do with it, but clearly his head is not screwed on straight - and that pretty much makes him useless in the NFL.

Inner Dirt
08-24-2017, 07:19 PM
When he first came in the league, I thought he was the real deal and going to be one of the elite players of the game. Maybe injuries have something to do with it, but clearly his head is not screwed on straight - and that pretty much makes him useless in the NFL.

Injuries had nothing to do with his downfall, he has a laundry list of deficiencies that he never improved on and as they do defensive coordinators exposed him. His two biggest flaws, he has no pocket presence and poor field vision. He flees the pocket prematurely and stares down receivers.

Lemon Drop Husker
08-24-2017, 07:29 PM
The real problem is...., we are making this a problem.

Should he stand? Absolutely. Does it "offend" me if he kneels. Sure. But he can express himself in any way he sees fit as long as he doesn't break any of our laws.

And while doing so, he can live with the consequences of his actions which means he isn't good enough for the baggage he will bring to any team. Even the Browns.

As for the protestors? Oy vey. :faint:

Lemon Drop Husker
08-24-2017, 07:42 PM
And Oh by the way, who on here gives the finger to their country while on the job, while also embarrassing their company, and expects to keep their job?

All this for a guy (that was) making a salary greater than 90% of CEO's across the country as a backup QB for one of the worst teams in the NFL.

Anyway. His skills could kill it in the CFL. :ThmbUp:

Tom
08-26-2017, 06:24 PM
One of the Bill's on TV this week commented on the spineless wonder - "he is just not that good."

I would love to see him play again - and get hurt so bad he can't stand up for anything.

ElKabong
08-26-2017, 06:37 PM
One of the Bill's on TV this week commented on the spineless wonder - "he is just not that good."

I would love to see him play again - and get hurt so bad he can't stand up for anything.


LeSean McCoy of all people said this week Kapernick wasn't worth the issues he'd bring to a team. I get the idea Kapernick needs an audience more than a paycheck. Either way, good luck to ya

dkithore
08-27-2017, 06:35 AM
The NFL doesn't exist without those who've served and protected our country. If paying respect to that sacrifice by standing for the anthem doesn't suit you, I suggest a mandated trip to Arlington cemetery for those who don't wish to stand. If you refuse to go to Arlington, then you're suspended indefinitely until you do. If you do go, and you still refuse to honor their sacrifice, then you just don't understand the meaning and purpose of why you've been blessed to live in a country where someone else put their lives on the line for YOUR freedom, thus making $millions playing in the NFL....Go be a rebel in the Canadian Football League, I'm sure they'd love you there...:rolleyes:

The NFL is taking a public relations BEATING on this issue, they couldn't have handled it any worse.....Goodell is the worst Comish of any sport in my lifetime.:ThmbUp::ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

Tom
08-27-2017, 11:48 AM
:ThmbUp::ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

+:ThmbUp::ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

Many of the fans in the seats who paid ridiculous ticket prices to get in were those who put their lives on the line so this bunch of over-paid POS can insult them.

The NFL and everyone in it is a disgrace to this country.
What this collection of losers gets paid is sickening.
Feds should be taxing them 95%

eldee wins
08-27-2017, 03:45 PM
Do what jerry jones said, the owner of the cowboys. You don't stand, you don't play. This was also said by hockey coach John tortarella! My personal feelings are, we are all Americans. People who come to this country and some people born in this country want to change everything. From no Christmas trees, tearing down statues, which remind us of history right or wrong. What bathroom to use. And standing for the flag. People, especially athletes that kneel and disrespect the flag. They are paid millions to play a game, a game! Military and first responders that protect us every day and those who lost their life's protecting the weak and innocent. They don't make that kind of money that athletes make. Especially putting Their life on the line every day. Most of this work hard everyday and want to watch a game, a game. Not political statement or any other kind of protest. These athletes, if you want to make a statement do it on your on time. I repeat on your on time! We the fans are paying their Salarys! Let them switch salarys with the people they are disrespecting, especially the people who were killed in action! Their families and especially the children could use it. STOP THE BULLSHIT! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

eldee wins
08-27-2017, 03:47 PM
👍👍👍👍👍

delayjf
08-27-2017, 04:21 PM
just that he has the right to protest.

True enough, but people have the right to use the N word if they choose. But, you had better be prepared for the consequences of your act. Kaepernick made his stand, and it will likely cost him his career in the NFL - There is nothing wrong with that. Just think of the pride that will be his, knowing he gave up his NFL career in the fight for racial equality.

Enjoy the football game and take note of its advertisers and let the NFL know you will be boycotting those companies and their products.

ElKabong
08-27-2017, 04:32 PM
True enough, but people have the right to use the N word if they choose. But, you had better be prepared for the consequences of your act. Kaepernick made his stand, and it will likely cost him his career in the NFL - There is nothing wrong with that. Just think of the pride that will be his, knowing he gave up his NFL career in the fight for racial equality.

Enjoy the football game and take note of its advertisers and let the NFL know you will be boycotting those companies and their products.

Love that second paragraph. People do that, changes start to happen.... Changes, for the good.

jimmyb
08-29-2017, 09:11 AM
A letter by Col. Jeffery Powers to the Commissioner of the National Football League about football players kneeling during "The Star-Spangled Banner" is genuine.


http://www.snopes.com/retired-marine-open-letter-nfl/

FantasticDan
08-29-2017, 10:40 AM
Do what jerry jones said, the owner of the cowboys. You don't stand, you don't play.Jones feels strongly that players should stand, but he never threatened players with loss of playing team or expulsion from the team..

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dallas-cowboys/cowboys/2017/08/24/darren-mcfadden-jerry-jones-never-ordered-cowboys-stand-national-anthem

PaceAdvantage
08-29-2017, 11:26 AM
Apologize if this was mentioned already but how about if the media stopped reporting on people kneeling during the anthem?

I respect the players right to do so, even though I disagree, but the only reason it's a big deal is because the media keeps bringing it up.

Treat it like when a fan runs on the field. They don't show it because they don't want to give the people more attention.I feel the same way about these dopey white supremacist rallies...for years the media paid little to no attention to them...never asked presidents to "disavow" each and every gathering...

But you're not objective, so I know you can't even begin to see the parallels...

MutuelClerk
08-29-2017, 12:24 PM
Players in the NFL have killed, raped, beaten people and they get to play. I also disagree with the Kaepernick stance but in the big picture of things. His crime against humanity isn't near as bad. Misguided? Sure. Too many people judging this wrap themselves in the flag and bible and play the card for their convenience.

FantasticDan
08-29-2017, 03:14 PM
Players in the NFL have killed, raped, beaten people and they get to play. I also disagree with the Kaepernick stance but in the big picture of things. His crime against humanity isn't near as bad. Misguided? Sure.
Whether his actions during the anthem are "misguided" or not is certainly debatable, but his work with various charities is exemplary..

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/kaepernick-charity-work-putting-nfl-owners-disgraceful-light-article-1.3436250

jimmyb
08-29-2017, 04:41 PM
Whether his actions during the anthem are "misguided" or not is certainly debatable, but his work with various charities is exemplary..

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/kaepernick-charity-work-putting-nfl-owners-disgraceful-light-article-1.3436250

If Kapernick can praise the good works of the misguided and oppressive Fidel Castro, I guess you can praise the good works of the 'misguided' Kapernick.

Inner Dirt
08-29-2017, 07:04 PM
Whether his actions during the anthem are "misguided" or not is certainly debatable, but his work with various charities is exemplary..

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/kaepernick-charity-work-putting-nfl-owners-disgraceful-light-article-1.3436250

The fact he had a summer camp and invited Black Panthers to speak is something to be really proud of, do some research, the guy is a stupid piece of crap puppet and his girlfriend, a left wing radical is pulling the strings. Once his NFL career went in the toilet and he hooked up with Nessa his strange behavior began. Really odd that a rich athlete that could have almost women he wanted is a hen pecked wimp.

Track Collector
08-30-2017, 06:55 PM
Professional sports teams overlook a lot of baggage and will take a chance on a player if they feel the player will contribute to their success.

Kap excelled in the Pistol Offense (same as RG3), but defenses adapted and his strengths as a player are no match with today's offenses.

His controversies are at best a lesser, secondary reason for his non-employment in the NFL.

Valuist
08-31-2017, 08:03 PM
Professional sports teams overlook a lot of baggage and will take a chance on a player if they feel the player will contribute to their success.

Kap excelled in the Pistol Offense (same as RG3), but defenses adapted and his strengths as a player are no match with today's offenses.

His controversies are at best a lesser, secondary reason for his non-employment in the NFL.

Track Collector,

Where is Lethbridge?

DSB
09-04-2017, 08:21 AM
What does the flag and national anthem stand for?

Apparently many - if not most - equate it with the government and its policies.

I've never thought of it that way. I believe the flag and, by extension, the national anthem, stand for the people of America. They honor the spirit and sacrifices made by the people of our nation, both past and present.

If I have a problem with the government, I'll protest the government, but not the flag or anthem.

I don't hold anything against the right to protest, it just seems that a lot of the ire is misplaced.

Tom
09-09-2017, 09:56 AM
Whether his actions during the anthem are "misguided" or not is certainly debatable, but his work with various charities is exemplary..

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/kaepernick-charity-work-putting-nfl-owners-disgraceful-light-article-1.3436250

And completely irrelevant.

Tom
09-09-2017, 10:01 AM
What does the flag and national anthem stand for?

Apparently many - if not most - equate it with the government and its policies.

I've never thought of it that way. I believe the flag and, by extension, the national anthem, stand for the people of America. They honor the spirit and sacrifices made by the people of our nation, both past and present.

If I have a problem with the government, I'll protest the government, but not the flag or anthem.

I don't hold anything against the right to protest, it just seems that a lot of the ire is misplaced.

And many of those who sacrificed for that flag and perception of it either personally of by losing a relative who did are sitting in the stands after paying ridiculous prices to pay the salaries of those malcontented aholes. Or watching on TV.

But these morons have no problem playing for a league that buys and sells and trades Black men like the plantations used to do.

Sellouts.

upthecreek
05-23-2018, 09:57 AM
https://www.newsmax.com/thewire/anthem-kneeling-penalty-nfl/2018/05/22/id/861852/?ns_mail_uid=93954041&ns_mail_job=1794353_05232018&s=al&dkt_nbr=010504y9xacv

highnote
05-23-2018, 10:51 PM
I did a little digging about when the National Anthem started to be played before sporting events. It started in 1862 with baseball. Back then the Anthem was only played on special occasions because it was necessary to hire a band to play it.

When recording became widely available in the 1940s some baseball owners thought the National Anthem was cheapened because it was played too often.

In 2009 the U.S Military started paying NFL teams to stage patriotic events and of course the National Anthem was played.

http://dailysnark.com/nfl-teams-didnt-stand-national-anthem-2009/

A 2015 congressional report revealed that the Department of Defense had paid $5.4 million to NFL teams between 2011 and 2014 to stage on-field patriotic ceremonies; the National Guard shelled out $6.7 million for similar displays between 2013 and 2015.

Before 2009 players stayed in the locker room and didn't even come out for the National Anthem.

I know that there is a different attitude now towards the Anthem than when I was growing up. We did stand for the anthem, but it seemed sincere, not forced. But also back then, we said the Pledge of Allegiance every morning at school.

Personally, I would rather have our kids say the line "One nation under God" from the Pledge every morning than to have our military pay the NFL to help sway public opinion by creating a sense of patriotism. It's false patriotism. Either you want to be patriotic or you don't. It's patriotism by bullying. You can't buy true patriotism and you can't force someone to be patriotic.

I will continue to stand for Anthem because I always have. I do believe it is overused. It was played twice tonight before each high school volleyball playoff game. I will have stood for the Anthem about 6 to 8 times this week.

Maybe those old baseball owners had a point about the Anthem being cheapened by playing it too often.

If it is worth playing then it is worth hiring a real band to perform it, not some crappy recording played over an antiquated public address system.

Or at least have a human being sing it acapella and give it the emotion it deserves -- as long as it's not Roseanne Barr. :D

MutuelClerk
05-24-2018, 09:42 AM
highnote, well said. I personally can't stand a recorded National Anthem. Just going thru the motions. When it comes to the National Anthem I have to think of my country when I stand. Usually hand over heart. If I think of my government. i'll vomit.

Inner Dirt
05-24-2018, 10:21 AM
What does the flag and national anthem stand for?

Apparently many - if not most - equate it with the government and its policies.

I've never thought of it that way. I believe the flag and, by extension, the national anthem, stand for the people of America. They honor the spirit and sacrifices made by the people of our nation, both past and present.

If I have a problem with the government, I'll protest the government, but not the flag or anthem.

I don't hold anything against the right to protest, it just seems that a lot of the ire is misplaced.


Well put, agree 100%.

highnote
05-24-2018, 11:01 AM
What does the flag and national anthem stand for?

Apparently many - if not most - equate it with the government and its policies.

I've never thought of it that way. I believe the flag and, by extension, the national anthem, stand for the people of America. They honor the spirit and sacrifices made by the people of our nation, both past and present.

If I have a problem with the government, I'll protest the government, but not the flag or anthem.

I don't hold anything against the right to protest, it just seems that a lot of the ire is misplaced.

I agree the Anthem represents the country, but I would go one step further and say it represents the potential of the country. There are many things wrong with this country and the Anthem should not represent those. But there are many more good things and that is what the Anthem stands for.

I appreciate Kapernick's willingness to to stand up for what he believes in (pardon the pun), but perhaps he could have chosen a less divisive platform.

thaskalos
05-24-2018, 11:20 AM
In this, the age of the multi-billion dollar TV deals...the NFL still collects money from the military in order to "promote patriotism"? This boggles the mind!

Inner Dirt
05-24-2018, 12:21 PM
I agree the Anthem represents the country, but I would go one step further and say it represents the potential of the country. There are many things wrong with this country and the Anthem should not represent those. But there are many more good things and that is what the Anthem stands for.

I appreciate Kapernick's willingness to to stand up for what he believes in (pardon the pun), but perhaps he could have chosen a less divisive platform.




What I don't understand is how I fall in an extreme minority category who seems to be most offended by the fact he and his supporters seem to believe he has a right to stage his so called protest while he was wearing the uniform and being paid by the San Francisco 49ers without their prior approval.


As far as Kaepernick standing up, that is laughable. He starting pulling his long list of crap after hooking up with his left wing radical DJ girlfriend Nessa. He does not think for himself, he is like an old school ventriloquist dummy.

highnote
05-24-2018, 01:01 PM
What I don't understand is how I fall in an extreme minority category who seems to be most offended by the fact he and his supporters seem to believe he has a right to stage his so called protest while he was wearing the uniform and being paid by the San Francisco 49ers without their prior approval.


As far as Kaepernick standing up, that is laughable. He starting pulling his long list of crap after hooking up with his left wing radical DJ girlfriend Nessa. He does not think for himself, he is like an old school ventriloquist dummy.

People make mistakes -- even when they are an employee.

BlueChip@DRF
05-24-2018, 01:48 PM
He does not think for himself, he is like an old school ventriloquist dummy.

He plays like one, too.

Dave Schwartz
05-24-2018, 02:39 PM
People make mistakes -- even when they are an employee.

Has he said, "I made a mistake?"

I firmly believe that the NFL players who choose to protest have every right to do so, just as I have a right to say that I do not wish to support a bunch of people who are ashamed of our country.

They have choices, as do I.

Last year I skipped the NFL entirely. They seem to be doing as fine without me as I am without them.

Valuist
05-25-2018, 12:14 PM
What I don't understand is how I fall in an extreme minority category who seems to be most offended by the fact he and his supporters seem to believe he has a right to stage his so called protest while he was wearing the uniform and being paid by the San Francisco 49ers without their prior approval.


As far as Kaepernick standing up, that is laughable. He starting pulling his long list of crap after hooking up with his left wing radical DJ girlfriend Nessa. He does not think for himself, he is like an old school ventriloquist dummy.

That DJ girlfriend is the worst thing that happened to Kaep. If he doesn't meet her, he's not kneeling, and likely still on an NFL roster.