Value Capper ?

[Nutz and Boltz]

Has anyone viewed Pizolla's Value Capper videos. Any comments? And buyers ?

[oughtoh]

I saw it and loved it. If I could afford it I would definately get it. Since I can't really read the form anymore it would give me a way to play more and be able to play more then one track.

[mikesal57]

I saw it and loved it. If I could afford it I would definately get it. Since I can't really read the form anymore it would give me a way to play more and be able to play more then one track.

Dude....aren't you winning tons of money with Pace Platinum?

You keep promoting how good it is....:bang:

[Nutz and Boltz]

With the state of racing these days, I'm not willing to part with that amount of money at this time. If this were 20 years ago, I'd be in. It does look very impressive, though.

[oughtoh]

I am only betting DM with a form and my handicapping. Even when I run Platium or Ponypickers I am not betting it. I have tried to figure out a way to get it down from 3 horses to one, but haven't been able to. All the money I win goes to putting 2 daughters thru college an fixing cars when they break down. They just don't work for me because I only bet 1 horse an cons. has 3. Other thing is which button to play everyday. Usually pick the wrong one. That is why I have been trying to narrow it down, but no luck.

[MacTavish]

Has anyone viewed Pizolla's Value Capper videos. Any comments? And buyers ?

There are 204 videos. I've watched 10 of them so far. They range in length from about ten minutes to an hour. I'm almost through with the "Mindset" category where he's talking primarily about the importance of "value" bets. At this point, it's indoctrination. In the next set of videos, he'll address specifics of the software.

I think he's an eloquent speaker with a lot to say, but there's so much of it, you have to take it in digestible bites.

[oughtoh]

The 108 videos on the one set that he said he had from pass videos he has made, I would probably never watch Just to much time to watch everything. So they would have been useless to me, but I would still be paying for them in the price.

[punteray]

I have a betting program that I will be sending to GREG for distribution that allows you to bet all three horses to win chosen by "best 5". For EVD 0805 posted by Greg using $20 for each race (a total of $180 bet) , the program made $225.75 gross, which is a profit of $45.75 for an ROI of 25%. NO NEED to break it down to just 1 horse. The program is called B.A.B.S. (Bad Ass Betting Strategy)

Ray Scalise

[crusader222x]

What is the cost of wizard membership and the data to run the impressive program?

[oughtoh]

I have a betting program that I will be sending to GREG for distribution that allows you to bet all three horses to win chosen by "best 5". For EVD 0805 posted by Greg using $20 for each race (a total of $180 bet) , the program made $225.75 gross, which is a profit of $45.75 for an ROI of 25%. NO NEED to break it down to just 1 horse. The program is called B.A.B.S. (Bad Ass Betting Strategy)

Ray Scalise

That is fine. But what happens on days like DM Yesterday when they ha 5 winners for a total of $26. That is a total 27 bets and you get back $26. That is a loss of $154 in one day. Five winners in a day is good out of 9 races. Does this only work at Evan? Or does it work everywhere? I am for anything that works where I on't have to rea a form an can play more then one track in a day.

[JimG]

What is the cost of wizard membership and the data to run the impressive program?

With BLAM, it was $79 for unlimited data and $29 for forum.

[punteray]

If the MLO's are low the the program might show a negative return so DON'T BET 'EM!

[green80]

I have a betting program that I will be sending to GREG for distribution that allows you to bet all three horses to win chosen by "best 5". For EVD 0805 posted by Greg using $20 for each race (a total of $180 bet) , the program made $225.75 gross, which is a profit of $45.75 for an ROI of 25%. NO NEED to break it down to just 1 horse. The program is called B.A.B.S. (Bad Ass Betting Strategy)

Ray Scalise

While it may work on days where you have a few lonshots, it wont work on days a lot of favorites come in. Dutching 3 horses in every race is a long term loser.

[oughtoh]

With BLAM, it was $79 for unlimited data and $29 for forum.

Unlimited data for $79 is a bargain. Don't think you can beat that.

[Speed Figure]

Unlimited data for $79 is a bargain. Don't think you can beat that.
You can't get unlimited data unless your on the forum. The total price is $124 per month.

[oughtoh]

Still think that is a good deal.

[MacTavish]

You can't get unlimited data unless your on the forum. The total price is $124 per month.

Comparable to HTR in terms of data cost. Also, years ago I used All-Ways and that would have been about 10 cards per month with them. Haven't checked their pricing lately.

[acorn54]

i am in on valucapper have watched carefully the coaches experience especially bob harris and matt and the testimonial from nestor's mother who lives in benin , africa, brought me to tears. it is the symposium #17.
bob puts it bluntly what you can expect from using mr pizzolla's software valucapper. bob says he knows no one that makes all their income solely from using it. he is satisfied with the side income he gets, making 40-60 dollar bets to win. he gets 14 % winners so thats collecting on the average 1 race and losing 7 wagers. matt in one of the tapes talks of his struggle with his 6th year of using the program, after 5 satisfying years. the mother of nestor thanks mr pizzolla for the allowing her to send her son to schoo, he is the first one in the village to able to do so. she also was able to buy him a desk and his own computer for school work and recreation, and she sent mr pizzolla a picture of the food she was able to buy to have a christmas feast for the village. now there is someone that has the why of having to make some kind of money. by the way she is not a wizard. she just has the software.

it really is a matter of approach. if you are not one to sit out just about all of the races AND don't have DISCRETIONARY of at least 1000 dollars , don't bother. matt said he learned the hard way not to bet more than 1% of his bankroll. a word to the wise is sufficient.

[oughtoh]

If they are only getting 14% winners, do you suppose they are playing to many races? You would need a $16 winner just to break even.

[acorn54]

you can't argue with success. bob harris is a no nonsense guy, and comes across as telling the truth. i understand your skepticism peddlers of horse race products is sort of like trying to find honor among thieves.

[oughtoh]

you can't argue with success. bob harris is a no nonsense guy, and comes across as telling the truth. i understand your skepticism peddlers of horse race products is sort of like trying to find honor among thieves.

That is so true about horse race products.

[JimG]

If they are only getting 14% winners, do you suppose they are playing to many races? You would need a $16 winner just to break even.

Many of the BLAM software users skip many races and primarily play horses that are overlays/longshots. It's not for the faint of heart nor for someone who feels pressure to win a race as opposed to winning at the races. You also need a significant bankroll.

[Appy]

"...not for the faint of heart nor for someone who feels pressure to win a race as opposed to winning at the races."

That's a terrific comment JimG!

[oughtoh]

I would rather win at the races then win a race. Think it would be fun having that software, once you learn everything about it. Hope you guys that have it do great with it.

[acorn54]

I would rather win at the races then win a race. Think it would be fun having that software, once you learn everything about it. Hope you guys that have it do great with it.

thank you for the kind words. i hope your kindness brings you good karma

[kingfin66]

If they are only getting 14% winners, do you suppose they are playing to many races? You would need a $16 winner just to break even.

How do you figure? I get $14.29 to break even at 14% winners. $16 avg mutuels at 14% would net you a pretty good ROI of 1.12. Somebody please feel free to double check my math.

[oughtoh]

I was just going by 1 winner out of 8 races. $2 bet on 8 races was $16. Wasn't going by the %.

[Secondbest]

I would think you need more than $1000 discretionary money. With a 14% hit rate you can get some long losing streaks especially at first when you are still learning. If you can't take losing ten races or more in a row at 40 a pop then win one then lose ten more this program is not for you. That's why Michael stresses the mental aspect. If you can then it looks like you'll do well.

[acorn54]

I would think you need more than $1000 discretionary money. With a 14% hit rate you can get some long losing streaks especially at first when you are still learning. If you can't take losing ten races or more in a row at 40 a pop then win one then lose ten more this program is not for you. That's why Michael stresses the mental aspect. If you can then it looks like you'll do well.

yeah i look at the money i bet as marbles. not money. if i think it is money then their is the emotional attachment to it. just losing some marbles and sometimes getting some marbles. as far as a 14% hit rate, that is a generalization not all bets are alike if i like a horse in the 9/2-7-1 range that is an overlay i will bet 1 unit. if the horse has odds from8-1 or so up to 20-1, then i will bet 1/2 unit. simply because my longshots win far fewer races than my sweet spot horse bets. does that make sense?

[Secondbest]

yeah i look at the money i bet as marbles. not money. if i think it is money then their is the emotional attachment to it. just losing some marbles and sometimes getting some marbles. as far as a 14% hit rate, that is a generalization not all bets are alike if i like a horse in the 9/2-7-1 range that is an overlay i will bet 1 unit. if the horse has odds from8-1 or so up to 20-1, then i will bet 1/2 unit. simply because my longshots win far fewer races than my sweet spot horse bets. does that make sense?

yes it does

[jim michalak]

in the valuecapper video series mp states that the win % is 30% for the first (top) pick and 50% for the top 2 picks, for all races. as has been stated previously mp advises against this, so if one is selective the win % should be even higher. :)

[acorn54]

in the valuecapper video series mp states that the win % is 30% for the first (top) pick and 50% for the top 2 picks, for all races. as has been stated previously mp advises against this, so if one is selective the win % should be even higher. :)

the operative word in your statement is "selective", valuecapping isn't about picking the most winning horses, it is about getting value from the horses you bet. that's a big difference. if you watch the symposium videos you will get an idea on how the people who use black magic experience and think in their approach. they are looking to maximize PROFITS, not WINNERS. i'd suggest keeping an open mind while watching the rest of the valuecapper videos. i understand picking alot of winners is fun and all, and betting for value might not be as much of an opportunity for celebration. however you can have either very frequent winners, or you can have a good profit level, buy you can't have them both.

[Secondbest]

the operative word in your statement is "selective", valuecapping isn't about picking the most winning horses, it is about getting value from the horses you bet. that's a big difference. if you watch the symposium videos you will get an idea on how the people who use black magic experience and think in their approach. they are looking to maximize PROFITS, not WINNERS. i'd suggest keeping an open mind while watching the rest of the valuecapper videos. i understand picking alot of winners is fun and all, and betting for value might not be as much of an opportunity for celebration. however you can have either very frequent winners, or you can have a good profit level, buy you can't have them both.

Exactly right. It's all about overlaid price horses.

[acorn54]

Exactly right. It's all about overlaid price horses.

again, it does not have to be "price" horses if you are referring to only betting longshots, just getting value. there are people who use black magic and testify that there bread and butter bets are in the 9/2-7-1 range. it really depends on how accurate the software's odds line is.

[Secondbest]

I understand. When I say price I mean anything that pays double digits. Not necessarily $30 but say $12 and up. Anyway good luck.Im sure you'll do well.

[acorn54]

I understand. When I say price I mean anything that pays double digits. Not necessarily $30 but say $12 and up. Anyway good luck.Im sure you'll do well.

yeah well it ain't going to be rags to riches. the most successful coach of the wizards, claims he just makes some money from the software to take a vacation. and he's been using the software since it's inception as blam 1.0. he has a regular full time job to pay the bills. so the morale of the story is, if anyone is buying the software to try to make an income, don't quit your day job. that's what i like about the wizard club, they are fun guys and gals, but frank.

[kingfin66]

I was just going by 1 winner out of 8 races. $2 bet on 8 races was $16. Wasn't going by the %.

1 winner out of 8 would be a 12.5 % win percentage. In that case you are correct that the average winner would have to be $16 to break even.

[headhawg]

Exactly right. It's all about overlaid price horses.This is a misunderstanding. An overlay is an overlay no matter what the price. That is to say both a 4-5 and a 10-1 could be overlays. Or, they could both be underlays. In either case, making a bet based on "value" comes down to an accurate odds line which, of course, is very challenging to get right. If people haven't read Barry Meadow's Money Secrets at the Racetrack or Commonsense Betting by Dick Mitchell I highly recommend that they do.

[Bullet Plane]

in the valuecapper video series mp states that the win % is 30% for the first (top) pick and 50% for the top 2 picks, for all races. as has been stated previously mp advises against this, so if one is selective the win % should be even higher. :)

That's what the crowd can do also. Same odds as crowd picks.

So, it is a tool. Like the Sheets, The DRF, Timeformus, Etc.

I would say it is geared toward the contest player, as it can crunch a lot of races.

There are some contest winners who use onlly the free pp's given out at the book.

There are others who use state of the art technology.

Both can win.

Obviously, I hold the guy who can do it with free bare bones pp's in higher esteem.

But, there is no extra credit for that in the contest world.

[acorn54]

That's what the crowd can do also. Same odds as crowd picks.

So, it is a tool. Like the Sheets, The DRF, Timeformus, Etc.

I would say it is geared toward the contest player, as it can crunch a lot of races.

There are some contest winners who use onlly the free pp's given out at the book.

There are others who use state of the art technology.

Both can win.

Obviously, I hold the guy who can do it with free bare bones pp's in higher esteem.

But, there is no extra credit for that in the contest world.

saw your post. i am a senior citizen looking for some add'l income, not an ego trip or what others think of me. the people that use black magic are frank and don't lay claim to making a living from the valuecapper. just some side money to have some discretionary income. if you have any other expectations with this software it is not for you.

[oughtoh]

Acorn That is exactly what I was looking at valuecapper for. Also being a senior an having two kids in college alittle extra money would help out.

[rlopez781]

I had the privilege of playing with a beta tester of Value Capper for almost 6 months last year.There were some bombs of $58,$42 and $98 horses,and the program odds line will say 4/1 or 6/1 and compare it to the contention line(public) and tote board line of 12/1 or 15/1...then it's a bet.But you will also have to be prepared to lose on most of them and cash on a few. .He wasn't betting those bombs because
he was more interested in the 'bread-and-butter' bets,wherein the Value Capper will have the horse at 8/5 and the contention line says 4/1 and tote board has it at 9/2.There were more of them on those kind of value bets in regards to the kind of bettable races he liked to play.The program made it a lot easier to see
those value bets because it was automatic.You just have to do a little double-check on it's pp...

Ray

[SandyW]

I had the privilege of playing with a beta tester of Value Capper for almost 6 months last year.There were some bombs of $58,$42 and $98 horses,and the program odds line will say 4/1 or 6/1 and compare it to the contention line(public) and tote board line of 12/1 or 15/1...then it's a bet.But you will also have to be prepared to lose on most of them and cash on a few. .He wasn't betting those bombs because
he was more interested in the 'bread-and-butter' bets,wherein the Value Capper will have the horse at 8/5 and the contention line says 4/1 and tote board has it at 9/2.There were more of them on those kind of value bets in regards to the kind of bettable races he liked to play.The program made it a lot easier to see
those value bets because it was automatic.You just have to do a little double-check on it's pp...

Ray

WHEN IS VALUECAPPER SOFTWARE COMING OUT????

I have been hearing soon for the last two years, I am 78 years old right now and I would like to get a chance to use this software before I am dead and buried.
I personally think that this software will never ever be offered for sale because no such software has been programed or written.

[rlopez781]

Sandy,

It is already on sale to those that subscribed to his rants.Registration is going on right now but he might close it as soon as he meets the number of customers he can accomodate on the wizards forum.
As for the price, it is around $1300 to those that have the Black Magic 1.0.The
price to newbies is $1797 or split into 3 monthly payments of $677.It is not for recreational players.All the supplemental videos and manuals are now interactive and it is all on the website and just login and put your password and everything is there.The software also includes the original Black Magic 1.0 to those that
might want to check or compare the old with the new.I don't know how much the monthly unlimited data and results files are and also the membership to the wizards forum.But i heard it's around $125...

Ray

[FakeNameChanged]

WHEN IS VALUECAPPER SOFTWARE COMING OUT????

I have been hearing soon for the last two years, I am 78 years old right now and I would like to get a chance to use this software before I am dead and buried.
I personally think that this software will never ever be offered for sale because no such software has been programed or written.
I went to their marketing site and sent a request about availability and price points. I got an email saying I had to watch 4 videos and the answers would Magically appear. So I waded through video 1 @ 48 minutes long, and the next 3 videos are locked to me? Bizarre marketing techniques, but I suppose Mike P. knows what he's doing? I did find his five point plan on video 1 kind of a good refresher course on getting value.

[FakeNameChanged]

Originally Posted by SandyW View Post
WHEN IS VALUECAPPER SOFTWARE COMING OUT????

I have been hearing soon for the last two years, I am 78 years old right now and I would like to get a chance to use this software before I am dead and buried.
I personally think that this software will never ever be offered for sale because no such software has been programed or written.


I went to their marketing site and sent a request about availability and price points. I got an email saying I had to watch 4 videos and the answers would Magically appear. So I waded through video 1 @ 48 minutes long, and the next 3 videos are locked to me? Bizarre marketing techniques, but I suppose Mike P. knows what he's doing? I did find his five point plan on video 1 kind of a good refresher course on getting value.

edit: Okay I got an answer, sort of anyway. They said another video will unlock in another two days?

[Helles]

I went through the videos a couple of weeks ago. It takes about a week to get them all unlocked, but I'm guessing the time won't begin to run to unlock the next one until you watch the one that's currently unlocked. I watched them all immediately so it took about a week.

[Giahorse]

That's what the crowd can do also. Same odds as crowd picks.

So, it is a tool. Like the Sheets, The DRF, Timeformus, Etc.

I would say it is geared toward the contest player, as it can crunch a lot of races.

There are some contest winners who use onlly the free pp's given out at the book.

There are others who use state of the art technology.

Both can win.

Obviously, I hold the guy who can do it with free bare bones pp's in higher esteem.

But, there is no extra credit for that in the contest world.

What are you talking about, I will assume you made an error. Top picks wins 30%. You said same as public, not true, the public slowest odds horse, the fav win around that rate, Valiecapper win rate is around same also at 30%, but it not the fav all the time like the public. Very big difference.

[chuckster1968]

Best piece of software on the market. I purchased it and understand his work just like other pioneers of the handicapping world. It is the best piece of software on the market... Everyone can read past performances etc...everyone understand different patterns etc.. but he puts into a program...and that is the essence of it all, he wins..because he is a pioneer, I have used it for a week,, lots of bottom horses under the arc win..but the key is to throw out certain races and be wait...and hammer and start with your bankroll..and hammer...because even in a weekend of racing there is over 200 races avg.. Find 4-10 overlays within that..and you can make money.. I am a believer, the man knows his sh... and sure there is lots of numbers...etc... it is like anything else..practice and learn..

[mikesal57]

Best piece of software on the market. I purchased it and understand his work just like other pioneers of the handicapping world. It is the best piece of software on the market... Everyone can read past performances etc...everyone understand different patterns etc.. but he puts into a program...and that is the essence of it all, he wins..because he is a pioneer, I have used it for a week,, lots of bottom horses under the arc win..but the key is to throw out certain races and be wait...and hammer and start with your bankroll..and hammer...because even in a weekend of racing there is over 200 races avg.. Find 4-10 overlays within that..and you can make money.. I am a believer, the man knows his sh... and sure there is lots of numbers...etc... it is like anything else..practice and learn..

Glad you finally found something..
Sometimes you have to just ..GO FOR IT and not try to get other peoples thoughts

A question: How much does it cost and do you have to get his files too?
and at what cost also?

Thxs

Mike

[mabred]

Mike

All the ??? you have will be answered at his site above.

A guy i know plays with it but he did all the dvd's and is

a pretty sharp bettor <small>.Fwiw he says the place to play

is woodbine.

GL
Mabred

[mikesal57]

Mike

All the ??? you have will be answered at his site above.

A guy i know plays with it but he did all the dvd's and is

a pretty sharp bettor <small>.Fwiw he says the place to play

is woodbine.

GL
Mabred

Thxs.....

And a big THX for the tip.....

Woodbine , in my experience, is terrible to me...
I like speed but this track is the complete opposite
Never seen a track where the gate opens and all the jockeys have a
strangle hold on their horses...LOL

Mike

[lefty359]

How many free videos are there?

[Speed Figure]

I believe 201 are available. 108 are from Black Magic.

[dlivery]

Im a recreational Wager Capper of RDSS and my take is the answer to all of this is what works for you on a constant basis works for all involved.
May the horse be with you
But the Tamdem feature on RDSS is my favourite.

[acorn54]

Glad you finally found something..
Sometimes you have to just ..GO FOR IT and not try to get other peoples thoughts

A question: How much does it cost and do you have to get his files too?
and at what cost also?

Thxs

Mike

mike, valuecapper costs in the neighborhood of 1900 dollars if you dont have the version 1.0 black magic, which i presume you do not. it only takes mikes posttime solutions datafiles which cost $1.50 each track. however if you become an owner of valuecapper or black magic, version 1.0, you can become a "wizard", and get unlimited downloads of data files and results for a monthly subscription of $120

[Pensacola Pete]

Out of curiosity, how many $1,000+ programs has Mr. Pizzolla authored during the past 30 years?

[cato]

Two (2). The number is two - Black Magic and ValueCapper.

Possibly three if you count the Master Handicapper but I think it was less than $1000.

[mikesal57]

Heres the issue with these $1000+ programs...

Their files!!!!

You have to buy their files to work the program.

You can get a track, two , or three but what kind of a database your going to have???

or

Buy a monthly plan , with ALL tracks , and have an complete database @ $120/month...

Mike

[mmoroses]

Heres the issue with these $1000+ programs...

Their files!!!!

You have to buy their files to work the program.

You can get a track, two , or three but what kind of a database your going to have???

or

Buy a monthly plan , with ALL tracks , and have an complete database @ $120/month...

Mike

Totally agree with this assessment.

I went through the series of "Sales Pitch" videos and got all excited, till I saw the price tag, then the Caution Flags went up.

This software looks like a lot of fun, especially if (like me) you enjoy playing longshots, and are willing to wait patiently for the big score.

But let's say I cough up the $1900 for the s/w and tack on $120/month for the data. To break even in a year, I need to generate $1900/12 + $120 = $278/month in profits, and send them off to Mr. Pizzola. I couldn't make that commitment. Pass.

Mike M.

[Appy]

I signed up and purchased VC when it came out, and found a lot to like about it. Unfortunately soon after I was suddenly overwhelmed with personal responsibilities (24 hour care for my 92 yr old, blind, mentally deficient WWII vet dad) so I could not, at this time, afford to pursue the interest and had to return it for the time being.
IMO Pizzolla's staff is second to none. They have always answered my questions in timely, courteous, and efficient fashion, and even completed process of my refund with unexpected speed.

One thing about VC I did NOT like is like Mike says, it only works with PTD pps. They are not a bad pp at all, but they do omit a lot of statistical info I have learned to depend on in terms of connections, sirelines, etc. Due to that same complaint I will not agree to the statement VC is "the best" software program available. But like I said, I found lots of things about the program and in the 201 vids that I did find valuable.

[lefty359]

I just viewed the 4th video on Pizzola's site and a link to order Value Capper and the cost was $1700.

[mhaney0423]

The Valuecapper software has worked quite well for me, albeit there was a steep learning curve (about 1 year before I was semi proficient) probably due to the fact that I was new to the valuecapping approach and I had not tried the previous Black Magic software. Michael offers a ton of instructional videos and is quick to respond via email to answer any questions.
I attach my twinspires account history here since August 1. I have made a decent profit by simply 10$ win betting, more study is needed but the results seem pretty consistent so far.

23096

[coachv30]

$1700??? Is this software that good to warrant that kinda price? What does it have/do to make it worth 100+ times other handicapping software. Not being a jerk here but I've never heard anyone tout about software that costs that much $$$.

[mhaney0423]

$1700??? Is this software that good to warrant that kinda price? What does it have/do to make it worth 100+ times other handicapping software. Not being a jerk here but I've never heard anyone tout about software that costs that much $$$.


I was not so much touting this software over another, just simply stating my opinion and showing a few months worth of results. What a program has to do to be worth that much to me is
#1) Be profitable
#2) Make my job of handicapping very simple.

Valuecapper does both for me, maybe another program does the same for someone else, but I had used all the cheaper and free programs at one time or another and had very mixed results. With valuecapper I spend between 20-40 minutes total time handicapping every race run for a day, and I may spend 10-15 additional minutes looking after scratches. That in my mind makes it pretty simple and very valuable as I have little time to study races.

And I did not take your response as you being a jerk, it is a good question, one I asked myself often back to the black magic days which was also >$1000, I never pulled the trigger on that one because I couldn't get past the cost.

Best,

Matt H

[lefty359]

I would like to see a few months results from VC. I didn't see them. Where can I find them?

[cato]

It's not a black box...so i don't think you'll find results anywhere.

It helps manage information and puts out a betting line but each user can manipulate the pace scenario and choice of pace lines,which impact the betting line.

The software has defaults for pace scenarios and pacelines but sometimes you just have to make your own calls on those items.

I think they offer a 90 day full refund program (be sure to confirm the terms) so if people are interested they can do that-- and just be sure to calendar the 90 days!

Cheers, Frank

[TexasDolly]

The Valuecapper software has worked quite well for me, albeit there was a steep learning curve (about 1 year before I was semi proficient) probably due to the fact that I was new to the valuecapping approach and I had not tried the previous Black Magic software. Michael offers a ton of instructional videos and is quick to respond via email to answer any questions.
I attach my twinspires account history here since August 1. I have made a decent profit by simply 10$ win betting, more study is needed but the results seem pretty consistent so far.

23096

I noticed a number of increases in the balance when no win was credited and wondered how that happened in your account file ? Did you deposit additional money ?
Thank you,
TD

[mhaney0423]

It's not a black box...so i don't think you'll find results anywhere.

It helps manage information and puts out a betting line but each user can manipulate the pace scenario and choice of pace lines,which impact the betting line.

The software has defaults for pace scenarios and pacelines but sometimes you just have to make your own calls on those items.

I think they offer a 90 day full refund program (be sure to confirm the terms) so if people are interested they can do that-- and just be sure to calendar the 90 days!

Cheers, Frank

Hi Lefty,

Frank is absoluely correct, the program does not just give you one or two horses or even a few races to bet. It is completely up to you based upon the line given and the various other factors who to bet and when.
I attached my results using the program for two months in a post above, but anyone elses results would be completely different.
I will say that I have had the program for a year, and in the beginning, although I hit a few bombs, ultimately I was losing money by betting too many races. Once I took the time to watch all of the 100s of instructional videos included, I have been able maintain a positive return for several months. More study is needed as it could easily turn south. I will update again towards the end of October


Best,
Mh

[TexasDolly]

Hi Lefty,

Frank is absoluely correct, the program does not just give you one or two horses or even a few races to bet. It is completely up to you based upon the line given and the various other factors who to bet and when.
I attached my results using the program for two months in a post above, but anyone elses results would be completely different.
I will say that I have had the program for a year, and in the beginning, although I hit a few bombs, ultimately I was losing money by betting too many races. Once I took the time to watch all of the 100s of instructional videos included, I have been able maintain a positive return for several months. More study is needed as it could easily turn south. I will update again towards the end of October


Best,
Mh

I am curious as to why you didn't reply to my post # 68 that dealt with increases in the bankroll with no winners shown ?
Thank you,
TD

[mhaney0423]

I am curious as to why you didn't reply to my post # 68 that dealt with increases in the bankroll with no winners shown ?
Thank you,
TD

Hi TD,

I did not notice your post. The record I posted was for win bets with my Valuecapper bankroll only, the ROI and winnings shown there are for those bets and that bankroll only but the overall balance would be for all bets as well as deposits/withdraws.
I like to bet exotics on the weekends and for big races, but that is strictly for entertainment and over the long haul I generally lose or almost break even.
I have not experimented too much with exotics using valuecapper yet as I am still in the process of proving to myself I can win consistently.

[Knute Chapman]

Hi Mhaney,

Texas Dolly is correct, the way the file is listed is a bit hard to follow. I was not able to make out the additions to the bankroll in the beginning, but I could sort of see that the "bank" had been depleted and so I just figured you had to add money to make the next series of bets. Where it gets a bit more confusing for me is where your total jumps from $90.15 to $511.15 on 8/11/18 with just a $50 credit? And then from $931.65 to 961.35 on 8/18/18 from 8/19/18 with no apparent credit? I did read where you said that you like to play exotics on the weekends, so is the file not to be looked at as a series of just win bets, and are you just making the point about a 16% win percentage, and/or the profit that you made during this time while using Valuecapper? 196 bets multiplied by 10, would be 1960, but you have 1955 in bets wagered? I'm saying this all in the spirit of trying to understand, so please take it that way, I'm probably miss reading it somehow and just trying to clear it up in my head. Thanx in advance!

[green80]

$1700??? Is this software that good to warrant that kinda price? What does it have/do to make it worth 100+ times other handicapping software. Not being a jerk here but I've never heard anyone tout about software that costs that much $$$.




And you must include the data cost, that's not cheap.

[Appy]

Green80 is correct. Data is not cheap. Of course you have data cost regardless of the program you use. One difference related to the value of ValueCapper is, after the learning curve, instruction etc , inorder to fully take advantage of the program you will need to purchase the unlimited data package (all tracks/all days) in order for the portfolio system and specialization to work at optimum. IMO that data package is a significant and consistent outlay too costly for smaller players.

During my quest as a perpetual student of horse racing I am grateful to have been blessed by association with a few of the most successful horse players I ever heard of. One of those was one of the original Pizzolla converts and Black Magic users. I never played with a more successful player than that fellow was. He liked what he saw in the new ValueCapper software as it automates even more of the process than did Black Magic. Worth noting regarding "specialization" is that he only actually played about a dozen races in his last full year of play. He won 9 of those, and finished with an enviable profit for the year.
No matter how hard I try I have been unable to develop anywhere near his level of patience for determining THE RACE to actually play. :bang: But I'm still working at it! :coffee: And I'm making progress. :jump:

[acorn54]

my experience with valuecapper reminded of my days in the pizza business. basically the money made was good but the landlord took such a large cut for rent that i felt we were working for the landlord.

[theotherside]

The cost of running that software (data files,membership to his forum) everyday to make a total of 12 plays in a full year is not realistic to 99.9% of the horse players in the world.And he hit 9 of 12 to make an enviable profit? Would have to be a very large bettor to make this enviable profit.Just my opinion.

[lefty359]

I agree, who can make a living or even supplement income with 12 plays a yr?
Wonder why he couldn't find more? It's an overlay method basically so there has to be more than 12 races. Would like to know how someone with this software is doing just playing overlays.

[mikesal57]

let me take a stab at how he bets.....because I have f&^%ing nothing better to do :)

To live decent these days , would a $150,000 do it......I say yes

So , I doubt he bets horses under 3-1....and doesn't chance those $20 horses

Lets say about a $10 avg payout


he wins 9 out of 12......

lets take $5000 as his normal bet....

5000 on a $10 winner= $25,000

25,000 x 9 = 225,000

12 x 5000 tot bets = 60,000

----------------------------
Profit = 165,000


there it is!!!!!...

now let me bother someone else

:coffee:

[Tom]

12 plays a year?
Better not ever take a day off.:rolleyes:


You have to cover the $1700 before you can even think about a profit.
I bet I do better with Social Security - 12 of those a year, too. And I hit 12 out of 12~!

If those 12 a year were really worth it, why in the Hell would you sell the info?
You KNOW all your customers will have the SAME horses you ar betting on.

Now, using 9 of 12 as your expectation - what possible sample size was that based on?
Say 20 years - that is 240.
Not very big.

[Appy]

let me take a stab at how he bets.....because I have f&^%ing nothing better to do :)

To live decent these days , would a $150,000 do it......I say yes

So , I doubt he bets horses under 3-1....and doesn't chance those $20 horses

Lets say about a $10 avg payout


he wins 9 out of 12......

lets take $5000 as his normal bet....

5000 on a $10 winner= $25,000

25,000 x 9 = 225,000

12 x 5000 tot bets = 60,000

----------------------------
Profit = 165,000


there it is!!!!!...

now let me bother someone else

:coffee:

You are conceptually correct mikesal, but overshooting for that particular year. His average W odds are about 5-1 and he only pulls the trigger when his confidence level is very high that the public is making an error in judgement. Worth noting that year for him was significantly impeded by an extremely serious hospital stay.

Tom, I enjoy your comments, but in this case I am certain your SS income never compares to what he customarily pulled down. He's what I consider a big player. The amount I risk in a month is less than he spends on a single W play.
As for the cost of ValueCapper, you only need to hit one race pretty well to more than cover the purchase price. Part of the Pizzolla education is learning to avoid gambling, while recognizing and maximizing the investment opportunity.
During my 30 day trial I missed on some plays, but hit one for $28+ on a horse I wouldn't have considered were it not for the software's method of identifying horses with potential to win. Pizzolla himself told me he thought my winning choice was "a reach". LOL.

[mikesal57]

You are conceptually correct mikesal, but overshooting for that particular year. His average W odds are about 5-1 and he only pulls the trigger when his confidence level is very high that the public is making an error in judgement. Worth noting that year for him was significantly impeded by an extremely serious hospital stay.

Tom, I enjoy your comments, but in this case I am certain your SS income never compares to what he customarily pulled down. He's what I consider a big player. The amount I risk in a month is less than he spends on a single W play.
As for the cost of ValueCapper, you only need to hit one race pretty well to more than cover the purchase price. Part of the Pizzolla education is learning to avoid gambling, while recognizing and maximizing the investment opportunity.
During my 30 day trial I missed on some plays, but hit one for $28+ on a horse I wouldn't have considered were it not for the software's method of identifying horses with potential to win. Pizzolla himself told me he thought my winning choice was "a reach". LOL.

Thxs App....

No need to use your own confidence level these days anymore

just look at odds near post time and watch for it going down..

You'll have the best confidence in the world....The Syndicates!!!

Mike

[stewball1127]

I've been looking for a solid program to use, ever since FCR went out of business.

I was an original BLAM user. Forget what it cost but it wasn't cheap. Attended the 2009 BLAM seminar, where I met a lot of interesting folks from all over the country that had a common goal. This was I believe 2009. One thing I can say about Michael Pizzola is that he is a straight shooter. He isn't a guy that just theorizes about betting, he puts his money thru the windows.

That Saturday night he handicapped a race - I believe GGF - and he flat out nailed it. Win tickets, exactas. That one race more than paid for the entire trip. There were other very nice winners on that Sunday. The Red Rock racebook erupted in cheers. Fun day.

I met a guy that was also from No Cal and we became very good friends. After awhile he tired of BLAM and found FCR. I started using FCR and stopped using BLAM. It wasn't that BLAM wasn't any good, but the monthly cost was 5X what FCR costs. I had great success with FCR, by far the best program for the price ever. I had lots of signers and many more tickets that cashed for 3 and 4 figures. Unfortunately, they went out of business last year so back to square one.

With FCR I played often. I could look at that data and handicap a race in less than 5 minutes. I have played very sparingly since then. I use Thorograph on big race days, and have won a lot of money using that product. But that product is also cost prohibitive and is good for the better tracks, not so much for cheaper races.

So back to square one, looking for a program that I can use daily. I bought a few from RPM, and they also gave me several freebies. Here is the problem with RPM products...there is zero handicapping involved. Yes, you will get winners from time to time. But you have no idea which program to trust if you have multiple programs. They are slick marketers, but the results are far from what they claim. There is just no way you can use that stuff with any confidence. I spent a few hundred and chalked it up as lost money at the track. I cashed the $7400 P5 on LA Derby Day, so I wasn't gonna sweat a few hundred.

I bought one from this site, but it just contains so much noise its impossible to use with any confidence.

So I looked into ValueCapper, watched the 4 videos, looked at a few past YouTube handicapping videos. Unlike most people that sell software, he doesn't do 2 things:

- Promise you will get rich
- Tell you it will spit out winners.

Its made very clear that this is a tool, nothing more. Now, its an expensive tool. The first bet I made with the original BLAM I cashed for over $3,000. I pulled up a horse from below the ARC that ran under the super. Win, ex, etc.. I also picked more than my share of losers. But hunting for prices thats what happens.

As for the cost, one person said you have to win $1900 plus the $124x12 every year. The $1900 is a one time cost, thats a sunk cost. The data and forum run you $1488 per year. Bris monthly is $125 - same price as this data - other programs will run you that much and more. The monthly fee is right in line with many other data providers. Its not for a person betting twice a month. Its for a serious player willing to invest the time/energy/money to elevate their game. Its a tool, nothing more.

The cost is $1297 for those that previously purchased BLAM. I love horse racing, its my favorite hobby. Some people golf, that isn't cheap either. Others play poker, trust me there are a LOT of people that lose a lot more than the cost of data and software playing poker. I have had 2 huge days at the track, Breeders' Cup last November and the P5 I mentioned. Cashed over 40k the last 6 months. I can re-invest some of that money for this software, and see how it goes.

I'll post here from time to time and give an honest assessment of how things go. Good luck to all of you.

[mikesal57]

I've been looking for a solid program to use, ever since FCR went out of business.

I was an original BLAM user. Forget what it cost but it wasn't cheap. Attended the 2009 BLAM seminar, where I met a lot of interesting folks from all over the country that had a common goal. This was I believe 2009. One thing I can say about Michael Pizzola is that he is a straight shooter. He isn't a guy that just theorizes about betting, he puts his money thru the windows.

That Saturday night he handicapped a race - I believe GGF - and he flat out nailed it. Win tickets, exactas. That one race more than paid for the entire trip. There were other very nice winners on that Sunday. The Red Rock racebook erupted in cheers. Fun day.

I met a guy that was also from No Cal and we became very good friends. After awhile he tired of BLAM and found FCR. I started using FCR and stopped using BLAM. It wasn't that BLAM wasn't any good, but the monthly cost was 5X what FCR costs. I had great success with FCR, by far the best program for the price ever. I had lots of signers and many more tickets that cashed for 3 and 4 figures. Unfortunately, they went out of business last year so back to square one.

With FCR I played often. I could look at that data and handicap a race in less than 5 minutes. I have played very sparingly since then. I use Thorograph on big race days, and have won a lot of money using that product. But that product is also cost prohibitive and is good for the better tracks, not so much for cheaper races.

So back to square one, looking for a program that I can use daily. I bought a few from RPM, and they also gave me several freebies. Here is the problem with RPM products...there is zero handicapping involved. Yes, you will get winners from time to time. But you have no idea which program to trust if you have multiple programs. They are slick marketers, but the results are far from what they claim. There is just no way you can use that stuff with any confidence. I spent a few hundred and chalked it up as lost money at the track. I cashed the $7400 P5 on LA Derby Day, so I wasn't gonna sweat a few hundred.

I bought one from this site, but it just contains so much noise its impossible to use with any confidence.

So I looked into ValueCapper, watched the 4 videos, looked at a few past YouTube handicapping videos. Unlike most people that sell software, he doesn't do 2 things:

- Promise you will get rich
- Tell you it will spit out winners.

Its made very clear that this is a tool, nothing more. Now, its an expensive tool. The first bet I made with the original BLAM I cashed for over $3,000. I pulled up a horse from below the ARC that ran under the super. Win, ex, etc.. I also picked more than my share of losers. But hunting for prices thats what happens.

As for the cost, one person said you have to win $1900 plus the $124x12 every year. The $1900 is a one time cost, thats a sunk cost. The data and forum run you $1488 per year. Bris monthly is $125 - same price as this data - other programs will run you that much and more. The monthly fee is right in line with many other data providers. Its not for a person betting twice a month. Its for a serious player willing to invest the time/energy/money to elevate their game. Its a tool, nothing more.

The cost is $1297 for those that previously purchased BLAM. I love horse racing, its my favorite hobby. Some people golf, that isn't cheap either. Others play poker, trust me there are a LOT of people that lose a lot more than the cost of data and software playing poker. I have had 2 huge days at the track, Breeders' Cup last November and the P5 I mentioned. Cashed over 40k the last 6 months. I can re-invest some of that money for this software, and see how it goes.

I'll post here from time to time and give an honest assessment of how things go. Good luck to all of you.

Hi Stew...

Welcome ...

As for RPM.....you can do a search here and find out how bad they have been for maybe 20-30-40 years ...dont waste time or money there...

You mention buying one here...Can you say with one?

In the software handicapping thread , there is a list of programs that people have voted on ...that can be a good start for you...
Look at a few on their Home pages and ask questions here..
The data is about the same for each of them....
To be honest you need 3-6 months to really evaluate a program and give it an honest test.
Make sure you can get your money back if you pay for the program ( no refunds on data) and your not satisfied......make sure that if you need help that it doesnt cost you extra to rent some ones time...the developers should be more than happy to get you up to speed....and finally , the programs forums are not as helpful as you would want because no-one is going to spill the beans on a winning system...you will get basic help mostly...

Happy Hunting
Mike

If you handy with Excel maybe you want to check out ALLDATA Program...
Its a free program that imports data files and you can develop your own ideas and automate it....

[lefty359]

stewball, that was a very good and informative post. Yes, let us know how you do wih ValueCapper. I do agree that Pizolla is a player and he is a straight shooter.

[stewball1127]

stewball, that was a very good and informative post. Yes, let us know how you do wih ValueCapper. I do agree that Pizolla is a player and he is a straight shooter.

I will do that, probably start a thread and give updates on all of it.

[Speed Figure]

Stewball! great post bro! keep us the loop with how everything is going! Pizzolla is definitely one of my favorite handicappers. I've based my homegrown software on a lot of his teachings!

[NorCalGreg]

$1700??? Is this software that good to warrant that kinda price? What does it have/do to make it worth 100+ times other handicapping software. Not being a jerk here but I've never heard anyone tout about software that costs that much $$$.

Where are you getting handicapping software for $17.00 coach?
I'll buy a copy

[stewball1127]

Stewball! great post bro! keep us the loop with how everything is going! Pizzolla is definitely one of my favorite handicappers. I've based my homegrown software on a lot of his teachings!

Thx buddy I will do that.

For those wondering why would it cost so much?? Its more than just getting the software, which is excellent. Its all of the videos that go along with it. Many have nothing to do with the actual handicapping process using the software, it has to do with a lot of mental stuff that is really really good.

[Appy]

There ya go pard. No matter how good a tool is, it's what you know in the way of using it that makes the difference. Lots of guys might buy the best saw on the market, but some are lots better at using it than others. Those who use it very well don't have to do near as any jobs to make it all very worthwhile.
One decent $1 or $2 super can pay for the VC software. I have never paid for the full data subscription to all tracks. I deviate from Pizz on that point. I specialize in modeling and playing only certain tracks. I believe you get to know a track just like you get to know a horse. You get to where you an just feel it.

[mikesal57]

There ya go pard. No matter how good a tool is, it's what you know in the way of using it that makes the difference. Lots of guys might buy the best saw on the market, but some are lots better at using it than others. Those who use it very well don't have to do near as any jobs to make it all very worthwhile.
One decent $1 or $2 super can pay for the VC software. I have never paid for the full data subscription to all tracks. I deviate from Pizz on that point. I specialize in modeling and playing only certain tracks. I believe you get to know a track just like you get to know a horse. You get to where you an just feel it.

Appy , do you model a few tracks because of the software not being able to process all races at once?

EX:

There are some programs out there that will run all of todays cards vs a custom play you developed and provide all your plays for all your tracks.

Then

There are others that only process your custom play race by race manually making it hard and time consuming to see plays at various tracks.

What does VC do?

Mike

[Speed Figure]

I know with VC and BM you can download every track for the day in 5 seconds.

[mikesal57]

I know with VC and BM you can download every track for the day in 5 seconds.

Can you gets each of your tracks plays in 5 seconds?