how to start a racetrack business

[highnote]

This thread is about how to go about starting a horseplayer friendly racetrack.

We were discussing it in the keeneland thread and it was taking us away from the main topic.

Feel free to jump in here with ideas.

[highnote]

My idea is that a group of horseplayers should get together and form a company to build a racetrack or buy a distressed one.

Nowadays, you companies can form "microventures" where stock can be issued privately to a large number of small investors.

In the old days, if a company was going to issue stock to more than something like 50 people, the investors had to be "accredited". That meant the investor needed a net worth of something like $2,000,000 or an annual salary of something like $200,000 per year for at least two years in a row.

That all changed when the JOBS Act was passed during the Obama administration. Now it is easier for startup companies to raise cash from a large number of small investors. A person can put in as little as $10 or $100. I think their might be an upper limit, too -- maybe like $10,000,000? Once you get so big you have to register with the SEC.

[GMB@BP]

What I meant by signal is two fold why I think it was an issue

1) it made it a practical impossibility to offer rebates

2) principle, tracks just didnt want to support a track who was cutting the very rake that they endorse. If it was successful it would be long term problematic for them

Its been a while, but I know Ellis had some issues when they offered some real low take bets.

[thaskalos]

It's the horseplayers' nature to disagree on every single aspect of this game. How are they to agree on "how to run a racetrack"?

[barn32]

My idea is that a group of horseplayers should get together and form a company to build a racetrack or buy a distressed one.

Nowadays, you companies can form "microventures" where stock can be issued privately to a large number of small investors.

In the old days, if a company was going to issue stock to more than something like 50 people, the investors had to be "accredited". That meant the investor needed a net worth of something like $2,000,000 or an annual salary of something like $200,000 per year for at least two years in a row.

That all changed when the JOBS Act was passed during the Obama administration. Now it is easier for startup companies to raise cash from a large number of small investors. A person can put in as little as $10 or $100. I think their might be an upper limit, too -- maybe like $10,000,000? Once you get so big you have to register with the SEC.I don't think you have any idea what a morass of quicksand you would be stepping into.

[highnote]

Here are some ideas for the new Bush League Downs Racetrack sans Casino:

1.) The racetrack company buys a piece of land to build a racetrack on.

2.) The track has low takeouts.

3.) The track is a simulcast-only track. There would be no on-track betting.

4.) The track's signal would distributed as far and as wide as possible.

5.) The horses would be mainly cheap claimers.

6.) The goal would be to have 8 or 9 races per night with 12 horse fields.

7.) Purses would be relatively small. Think Mountaineer Park when it used to be Waterford Park -- long before they had slots.

8.) A bonus purse could be paid to the owners of a race based on handle for the race. It would be paid once the betting handle account was reconciled.

9.) Expenses would be kept to a minimum. The operation would run on a shoestring, but bonuses would be paid based on handle.

10.) There might be a small fee to the owner to enter the race.

11.) The owner pays the jockey directly.

I could go on. You get the idea.

[wisconsin]

3.) The track is a simulcast-only track. There would be no on-track betting.

4.) The track's signal would distributed as far and as wide as possible.



Gulfstrem Park West.

[Inner Dirt]

It's the horseplayers' nature to disagree on every single aspect of this game. How are they to agree on "how to run a racetrack"?

Those were my exact thoughts, you beat me to it.

[highnote]

Gulfstrem Park West.

Is that the old Calder racetrack?

What are their takeouts like?

[highnote]

Those were my exact thoughts, you beat me to it.

That's why companies have a board of directors.

The way I look at it is that Elon Musk can build an electric car, solar roof tiles, and send rockets into outer space.

Those seem harder than running a racetrack.

[Jeff P]

Fraught with problems from the get go...

Unless you do it "their" way -- the other tracks and horsemen are going to do everything in their power to make sure you fail.

I'm guessing:

Horsemen will vote to block your signal because your takeout and signal fees are too low.

Or maybe they will vote to block your signal because you decided to use someone other than Roberts because you wanted your video to not 'hang' in the middle of a race or have a built in 30 second lag time.

Or maybe you wanted players to actually be able to see your horses during post parades and warm ups. So you decided to do away with those stupid graphics that take up 70% of the screen so the cameraman could zoom in on the horses.

Or maybe because you decided to do away with runups entirely -- and time each horse -- accurately!

Or maybe because your stewards aren't afraid to hand out suspensions to jockeys for rides that are -- ahem -- questionable.

They'll find a reason (no matter how stupid) to block it.

Horsemen will pressure The Jockey Club to have your races be unsanctioned.

Horsemen will pressure Equibase to not collect and disseminate data for your track. (After all, your races aren't sanctioned.)

If you want to run drug free horsemen are going to figure out a way to keep that from happening.

Other tracks will figure out a way to prevent horsemen from shipping out to your track.

And on and on and on...

You'd basically need a mountain of venture capital to start with because you (literally) are going to be your own island -- with everybody in the industry rooting against you.



-jp

.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Geez, you forgot that you have to invest in owning a racing commission and a big handful of legislators. :D

[highnote]

Fraught with problems from the get go...

Unless you do it "their" way -- the other tracks and horsemen are going to do everything in their power to make sure you fail.

I'm guessing:

Horsemen will vote to block your signal because your takeout and signal fees are too low.

Or maybe they will vote to block your signal because you decided to use someone other than Roberts because you wanted your video to not 'hang' in the middle of a race or have a built in 30 second lag time.

Or maybe you wanted players to actually be able to see your horses during post parades and warm ups. So you decided to do away with those stupid graphics that take up 70% of the screen so the cameraman could zoom in on the horses.

Or maybe because you decided to do away with runups entirely -- and time each horse -- accurately!

Or maybe because your stewards aren't afraid to hand out suspensions to jockeys for rides that are -- ahem -- questionable.

They'll find a reason (no matter how stupid) to block it.

Horsemen will pressure The Jockey Club to have your races be unsanctioned.

Horsemen will pressure Equibase to not collect and disseminate data for your track. (After all, your races aren't sanctioned.)

If you want to run drug free horsemen are going to figure out a way to keep that from happening.

Other tracks will figure out a way to prevent horsemen from shipping out to your track.

And on and on and on...

You'd basically need a mountain of venture capital to start with because you (literally) are going to be your own island -- with everybody in the industry rooting against you.



-jp

.

I'm trying to figure out if you're a realist or a half glass empty type of guy? :D

[Jeff P]

Geez, you forgot that you have to invest in owning a racing commission and a big handful of legislators. :D

I was actually trying to type something along those lines but ran out of edit time. :bang::lol:


-jp

.

[highnote]

Geez, you forgot that you have to invest in owning a racing commission and a big handful of legislators. :D

:ThmbUp:

[highnote]

If only the negatives of running a business and all of the hurdles that need to be jumped are considered then it is a wonder any business gets off the ground.

The guy who started FedEx was told by his Harvard professor that overnight delivery would never work.

You should take the advice of people who aren't entrepreneurs with a grain of salt.

In fact, why listen to the advice of someone who has never started a business about starting a business?

I know starting a business is challenging, but that's why it's fun.

It's gambling, except that you are in control of the outcome. :ThmbUp:

[Jeff P]

It's kind of a universal statement - but...

If you can identify a niche market, identify the customers in that niche market, identify the needs and wants of the customers in that niche market -- and make it your mission to serve the needs and wants of the customers in your niche market:

You can do really well with any business venture.

Dare I say even a horse racing related business venture.



-jp

.

[thaskalos]

Can't we build a business...where we'll advertise that we'll teach people how to become "winners" at the track? It seems safer...

[highnote]

It's kind of a universal statement - but...

If you can identify a niche market, identify the customers in that niche market, identify the needs and wants of the customers in that niche market -- and make it your mission to serve the needs and wants of the customers in your niche market:

You can do really well with any business venture.

Dare I say even a horse racing related business venture.

-jp


The key concept is "minimally viable product".

A person who thinks they can go out and start a racetrack and compete against Belmont and Santa Anita on their terms is probably misguided unless they are Bill Gates or Warren Buffett.

However, if a person follows the model of some of the English tracks that might only run a meeting one or two days per year with 6 races per day, then it might be doable.

The size of the meeting would depend on how much money could be raised through the recently legalized equity crowd funding process.

You have to start somewhere and it starts with a vision. Then you work backwards to see what it takes to make it happen and at what cost.

This is not even close to rocket science.

[Inner Dirt]

That's why companies have a board of directors.

The way I look at it is that Elon Musk can build an electric car, solar roof tiles, and send rockets into outer space.

Those seem harder than running a racetrack.

Problem is your idea would have a board of directors of horse players. I am sure you have observed how this bunch in here interacts with each other.

[highnote]

Problem is your idea would have a board of directors of horse players. I am sure you have observed how this bunch in here interacts with each other.

:D

[barn32]

Can't we build a business...where we'll advertise that we'll teach people how to become "winners" at the track? It seems safer...It might be safer, but it isn't possible.

[thaskalos]

It might be safer, but it isn't possible.

Not POSSIBLE? It's being done as we SPEAK.

[wisconsin]

Is that the old Calder racetrack?

What are their takeouts like?

It is, but I don't know what their takeout is. The grandstand was torn down.

[highnote]

It is, but I don't know what their takeout is. The grandstand was torn down.

Shows you how out of touch I am. I didn't know the grandstand was torn down. I was there about 7 or 8 years ago and there was a grandstand! Glad I got to see it before it was torn down. Same with Hollywood Park -- went to Breeders' Cup there in 1998.

[JustRalph]

Do it offshore

[highnote]

Do it offshore

You mean build a racetrack offshore -- or were you responding a different message?

If you're talking about building a racetrack, I actually thought about building the track in the U.S., but having all betting take place off-shore.

Non-pari-mutuel jump racing is held in New Jersey, the Carolinas, and Georgia. I'm surprised their associations don't send a signal overseas and try to collect a royalty on the bets.

[davew]

as long as you are building a fantasy track - how about sponsors?

instead of businesses sponsoring big races, sponsor racing days and then keep the takeout to 0% for bettors

[highnote]

as long as you are building a fantasy track - how about sponsors?

instead of businesses sponsoring big races, sponsor racing days and then keep the takeout to 0% for bettors

That's a really good idea. Kind of like NASCAR. More focus could be on the owners, trainers, and jockeys. An association would be made in the minds of consumers between the sponsors and the connections. This would work better if a story was filmed leading up to each race. This turns it into a reality show, though. If all betting was done offshore you might get away with zero takeout. If it is done onshore the government would want a cut.

But I like the idea of sponsors paying the purses. Trainers probably don't care where the purse money comes from as long as they get paid.

[jimmyb]

A niche track for cheap claimers running on dirt may work. These are the type of outfits being squeezed out that I love betting. These type races are my bread and butter.

[highnote]

A niche track for cheap claimers running on dirt may work. These are the type of outfits being squeezed out that I love betting. These type races are my bread and butter.

Agreed. I wrote in my early post in this thread that the races would be for cheap claimers. Waterford Park before it was Mountaineer Park ran mainly cheap claimers with purses of a $1,000.

[jimmyb]

Agreed. I wrote in my early post in this thread that the races would be for cheap claimers. Waterford Park before it was Mountaineer Park ran mainly cheap claimers with purses of a $1,000.

Suffolk downs will be finished next year. I'm sure the racing commision would support 'Cheap Claimer Downs' and allow it to be built somewhere and give the track all the racing dates it desires.

I think Ritvo and deep pockets Stronach should consider it. Anyone else have the kind of cash needed to get a track up and running?

[highnote]

Suffolk downs will be finished next year. I'm sure the racing commision would support 'Cheap Claimer Downs' and allow it to be built somewhere and give the track all the racing dates it desires.

I think Ritvo and deep pockets Stronach should consider it. Anyone else have the kind of cash needed to get a track up and running?

The more I think about building a racetrack, the more a grass course makes sense because it is already built to a large degree. You would need to mow it and put up railing.

It has to be built barebones. No grandstand. No starting gate. No public address system. No track announcer -- unless an announcer would work for free to hone his craft.

Only one camera would be needed to be fed to the internet.

There would be no finish line camera. It would be decided by a judge like in the old days before cameras or the judge could review the videotape.

Expenses have to be the absolute minimum. Takeout has to be low and the signal needs to go out to the world.

I would encourage jockeys to wear advertising on their silks. I would find sponsors to subsidize purses in exchange for advertising on the horse, in the telecast and around the track.

It is a complex undertaking but if there is a will there is a way. There are a lot of horseplayers who might be willing to buy shares in the track. If you own stock in a racetrack guess where you are going to bet.

I would do it but it would take at least two others as partners. There is too much work for one person.

[davew]

Suffolk downs will be finished next year. I'm sure the racing commision would support 'Cheap Claimer Downs' and allow it to be built somewhere and give the track all the racing dates it desires.

I think Ritvo and deep pockets Stronach should consider it. Anyone else have the kind of cash needed to get a track up and running?

aren't they already doing that with Portland Meadows? track owned horses and salaried trainers running those 3F races?

[highnote]

aren't they already doing that with Portland Meadows? track owned horses and salaried trainers running those 3F races?

I don't know what they're doing st PM, but it is a good idea.

[jimmyb]

aren't they already doing that with Portland Meadows? track owned horses and salaried trainers running those 3F races?

Don't know about that but they recently got into a bit of hot water for running an illegal poker room. Also have video lottery and such.

Racing only. No grandstand, no food service other than a track kitchen. Up front medical information regarding injuries, why a horse was laid off etc, Would be good enough for cheap claimer downs.

Highnote has some great ideas that go back to some old school style racing. I would also keep the super trainers out, anyone with a tainted racing past would also be excluded. Questionable rides would be scrutinized. Drug violations would be met with immediate expulsion and turned over to law enforcement.

5 F
5.5 F
6 F
7 F
1 mile
1 mile 40 yards
1 1/8
1 1/4

races only

Maybe we could start a gofundme. LOL

[baconswitchfarm]

The more I think about building a racetrack, the more a grass course makes sense because it is already built to a large degree. You would need to mow it and put up railing.

It has to be built barebones. No grandstand. No starting gate. No public address system. No track announcer -- unless an announcer would work for free to hone his craft.

Only one camera would be needed to be fed to the internet.

There would be no finish line camera. It would be decided by a judge like in the old days before cameras or the judge could review the videotape.

Expenses have to be the absolute minimum. Takeout has to be low and the signal needs to go out to the world.

I would encourage jockeys to wear advertising on their silks. I would find sponsors to subsidize purses in exchange for advertising on the horse, in the telecast and around the track.

It is a complex undertaking but if there is a will there is a way. There are a lot of horseplayers who might be willing to buy shares in the track. If you own stock in a racetrack guess where you are going to bet.

I would do it but it would take at least two others as partners. There is too much work for one person.


:D

[highnote]

Don't know about that but they recently got into a bit of hot water for running an illegal poker room. Also have video lottery and such.

Racing only. No grandstand, no food service other than a track kitchen. Up front medical information regarding injuries, why a horse was laid off etc, Would be good enough for cheap claimer downs.

Highnote has some great ideas that go back to some old school style racing. I would also keep the super trainers out, anyone with a tainted racing past would also be excluded. Questionable rides would be scrutinized. Drug violations would be met with immediate expulsion and turned over to law enforcement.

5 F
5.5 F
6 F
7 F
1 mile
1 mile 40 yards
1 1/8
1 1/4

races only

Maybe we could start a gofundme. LOL

Nowadays, because of the JOBS Act passed under the Obamacare administration you can do Equity Crowd Funding. Instead of being limited to giving a free t-shirt or a sample of your product to your micro investors you can give investors shares of stock.

I might even run 4 miles heats like at Saratoga back in the 1800s. This might encourage breeders to return stamina to the breed. Maybe even have maiden races for horses 5 years and up. I would pull out all the stops and make Bush League Downs the number one most interesting track in the United States.

[Inner Dirt]

I don't know what they're doing st PM, but it is a good idea.

Not to change the subject, but where is your avatar picture from? 35 years ago they had pig races at the LA County Fair in Pomona Ca, they did not allow wagering on them, but my friends and I bet among ourselves, the guy picking the last place pig had to buy the next round of beers.
I wonder how many in here belong to the "I will gamble on anything crowd?"

[highnote]

Not to change the subject, but where is your avatar picture from? 35 years ago they had pig races at the LA County Fair in Pomona Ca, they did not allow wagering on them, but my friends and I bet among ourselves, the guy picking the last place pig had to buy the next round of beers.
I wonder how many in here belong to the "I will gamble on anything crowd?"

That sounds like fun! Maybe Bush League Downs can offer pig, donkey, and ostrich racing, too! LOL

I found the picture on the internet. Probably google or bing.

[highnote]

To start, there might be one race meeting per week with 6 races on the card and 14 horses per race. All races would be handicap races. Faster horses would be carry more weight. This would make for more interesting betting.

It would be a closed population of horses. All horses must be registered and no new horses can race unless one retires. No shippers. No drugs allowed. No lasix. No bute. No nuthin'.

[highnote]

Actually there might only be one meeting every two weeks. The goal is to get sturdy horses that can race twice per month. Stallions that can produce sturdy horses that can stay a distance would become desirable.

[chadk66]

you wouldn't get a single recipient of your simulcast nor a single horse in your stalls. and having the owner pay the jockey directly had to be a joke.

[baconswitchfarm]

you wouldn't get a single recipient of your simulcast nor a single horse in your stalls. and having the owner pay the jockey directly had to be a joke.



+1

[highnote]

you wouldn't get a single recipient of your simulcast nor a single horse in your stalls. and having the owner pay the jockey directly had to be a joke.

I appreciate the feedback.

At this point, I'm just throwing out ideas. At some point, if you get enough good ideas then it makes sense to proceed.

First, you need a compelling "why" to do it. You need a reason why something must change and then you need a vision of the change.

Then you start formulating a plan to make it a reality.

ultracapper hit the nail on the head in his "Keeneland" post with his evaluation of the racing industry. Building a track today is an entirely different prospect than building a track in the 1930s and an enitirely different approach is needed. That means not thinking the same way racing executives think today. It means taking this in a whole 'nother direction.


How many people told Elon Musk he would never be able to sell electric cars in the U.S. or build a private rocket company. Yet, somehow he had a vision and made it a reality.

Like I said earlier, building a racetrack ain't rocket science.

[davew]

Actually there might only be one meeting every two weeks. The goal is to get sturdy horses that can race twice per month. Stallions that can produce sturdy horses that can stay a distance would become desirable.

I think it was NZ or AUS that had a few jockey clubs like that - they did not have stables as all horses were trucked in the day of race. The course was not groomed as sheep ate the grass. It was a weekend type thing.

[highnote]

I think it was NZ or AUS that had a few jockey clubs like that - they did not have stables as all horses were trucked in the day of race. The course was not groomed as sheep ate the grass. It was a weekend type thing.

I believe it was Nick Mordin who told me there were tracks like that in England and Ireland, as well.

[chadk66]

building a track is the easy part. filling the barns, races and grandstand is the near impossibility right now. Until there are some drastic changes in this country and the industry, it will continue to fizzle.

[highnote]

building a track is the easy part. filling the barns, races and grandstand is the near impossibility right now. Until there are some drastic changes in this country and the industry, it will continue to fizzle.

If you build it, they will come.

Hey, it sounds good in theory. :D

There will not be a grandstand at Bush League Downs. It will be strictly a simulcast track. Free admission. Free parking. But no on-track betting.

[redlandb]

Can I get a smaller 4F track inside of the big track? Just so I can actually "watch the race"?. Maybe have staggered starts?

[highnote]

Can I get a smaller 4F track inside of the big track? Just so I can actually "watch the race"?. Maybe have staggered starts?

Since the crowd would be small, a small viewing platform of some sort could be built for the horse's connections who want to watch the race live.

There will also be a video camera following the race so that the signal can be streamed live over the internet. People at the track will be able to watch the race in real-time on monitors located at various points around the track.

I like the idea of a track inside the track. It would allow for more turf racing and less down time for the main turf track to recover. Although, if the track is wide enough, dogs can be put up and moved around to allow the surface to recover.

[Track Collector]

I think it was NZ or AUS that had a few jockey clubs like that - they did not have stables as all horses were trucked in the day of race. The course was not groomed as sheep ate the grass. It was a weekend type thing.

Now THIS sounds like the type of track I would like. :)

[highnote]

Now THIS sounds like the type of track I would like. :)

You might be interested in this article about unsanctioned racing in Colorado:

http://kdvr.com/2017/05/17/unsanctioned-horse-racing-flourishing-in-rural-colorado/

Bush League Downs would bypass typical racing commissions and the races would be held on private land. However, security would be tight. Anyone caught using any kind of drug on a horse would be banned for life. Zero tolerance. One strike you're out. No second chances.

Here's another link to rural horse racing in a different part of the world:

http://www.sanews.gov.za/features/rural-horse-racing-gains-publics-interest

[chadk66]

If you build it, they will come.

Hey, it sounds good in theory. :D

There will not be a grandstand at Bush League Downs. It will be strictly a simulcast track. Free admission. Free parking. But no on-track betting.So basically it would be like every track in the country. Nobody at the races :pound:. Only difference is now there are grandstands. They're just empty.

[reckless]

Why build a racetrack when you could pick one up in Brockton, MA. for a ham sandwich. That track used to run as part of the historic and profitable Mass. State Fair Circuit. Last I heard the track itself was still in decent shape. Maybe our friend lamboguy could help us on this. :)

Atlantic City Race Course is another track already in place, and the area could support a race meet much longer than the 4-5 days they've raced in recent years. I know the barn area is in horrible shape so that will need much capital improvement money to be sure.

[highnote]

So basically it would be like every track in the country. Nobody at the races :pound:. Only difference is now there are grandstands. They're just empty.

Exactly! If racing is going to survive it is not going to be by filling the grandstands with people. Racing is a sport that depends on its survival with revenue from wagering.

[highnote]

Why build a racetrack when you could pick one up in Brockton, MA. for a ham sandwich. That track used to run as part of the historic and profitable Mass. State Fair Circuit. Last I heard the track itself was still in decent shape. Maybe our friend lamboguy could help us on this. :)

Atlantic City Race Course is another track already in place, and the area could support a race meet much longer than the 4-5 days they've raced in recent years. I know the barn area is in horrible shape so that will need much capital improvement money to be sure.

Any idea of how much would it cost to buy? Is it for sale?

[davew]

60 minutes did a repeat segment last night on 'timber racing'. It seems like a 4 mile steeplechase with around 25 jumps. The races did not seem like there was much infrastructure there.

[highnote]

60 minutes did a repeat segment last night on 'timber racing'. It seems like a 4 mile steeplechase with around 25 jumps. The races did not seem like there was much infrastructure there.

Those meets seem pretty casual. I would like to see one sometime.

[Track Collector]

Any idea of how much would it cost to buy? Is it for sale?

I don't think the property is currently for sale, but I recall reading somewhere that owner George Carney has spoken one time about a potential sale to and development by Walmart.

[chadk66]

Exactly! If racing is going to survive it is not going to be by filling the grandstands with people. Racing is a sport that depends on its survival with revenue from wagering.I don't think it's that way. Back in the hay day of racing, the grandstands were full and there wasn't any simulcasting. Racing is too saturated and they quit marketing the pageantry of the sport to people. Cby is as close to that as there is right now.

[highnote]

I don't think it's that way. Back in the hay day of racing, the grandstands were full and there wasn't any simulcasting. Racing is too saturated and they quit marketing the pageantry of the sport to people. Cby is as close to that as there is right now.

Those days aren't coming back unless simulcasting goes away.

[highnote]

I am going to restart this thread in a general racing forum.