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kingfin66
08-04-2017, 11:06 PM
Wow, just when I was starting to get behind his fiscal policies I see this story. I recall hearing this before. Basically, if true, Trump intends to pay for his tax cuts for the wealthiest by screwing pretty much everybody else. I suspect that there are many homeowners across the political spectrum here at PaceAdvantage who would be adversely impacted by this change. Look on the bright side, when you are writing your larger than normal check to the IRS, you can write on the memo line, "At least it's not Hillary."

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/trump-weighs-slashing-one-popular-tax-deductions-182402330.html

Lemon Drop Husker
08-04-2017, 11:16 PM
They are also looking at doubling the Standard Tax deduction.

If you are single, that means from $6,300 to $12,600.

If you are married, it goes from $12,600 to $25,200.

Unless your mortgage payment stretches into the $3,000 a month range, you'll be alright. And if you are paying $3,000 a month for your home, then you are likely "alright" with how things are going in the economy right now.

ReplayRandall
08-04-2017, 11:23 PM
Wow, just when I was starting to get behind his fiscal policies I see this story. I recall hearing this before. Basically, if true, Trump intends to pay for his tax cuts for the wealthiest by screwing pretty much everybody else. I suspect that there are many homeowners across the political spectrum here at PaceAdvantage who would be adversely impacted by this change. Look on the bright side, when you are writing your larger than normal check to the IRS, you can write on the memo line, "At least it's not Hillary."

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/trump-weighs-slashing-one-popular-tax-deductions-182402330.html

Trump is in for a rude awakening if he fully commits to grabbing this electrified, third rail.....I'm already onboard as stating his record of getting anything accomplished is looking worse with each passing month. To think that this is even a remotely viable idea is bordering on sheer lunacy.....My patience is running thin with the direction of ideas this POTUS has been displaying lately....Clock is ticking, Trump better get his act together real soon.

fast4522
08-04-2017, 11:27 PM
Considering how home ownership is now at its all time low, please correct if this may not be correct. Something has to be put into the the numbers to the give column, it all can not be gravy because there has to be some balance. Now take into consideration that it is not the only thing being looked at or the one that makes it into the final bill. This is way too preliminary but worth discussion. Keep in mind getting to the 15 to 22 % level will mean big change of something, does anyone think if a flat tax became law you would still have a mortgage deduction? I favor a flat tax better than any idea but know in order to get there much will have to change along the way.

fast4522
08-04-2017, 11:31 PM
Trump is in for a rude awakening if he fully commits to grabbing this electrified, third rail.....I'm already onboard as stating his record of getting anything accomplished is looking worse with each passing month. To think that this is even a remotely viable idea is bordering on sheer lunacy.....My patience is running thin with the direction of ideas this POTUS has been displaying lately....Clock is ticking, Trump better get his act together real soon.

Hey there RR Greenspan was blowing your tune today saying we are on the edge of the bubble and is going to burst, this comment I am not intending either way but following up with you.

_______
08-04-2017, 11:38 PM
This reaction is why tax reform is so difficult and why it is far more likely that you see a tax cut with a resulting rise in the deficit than anything remotely resembling actual tax reform.

Cutting taxes without broadening the base is a recipe for financial ruin. But since everyone is for gutting everyone else's carve out but not their own, there will be no consensus on the neccesary base broadening.

There are plenty of lobbyists waiting to pounce on these proposals and I'm sure you'll be seeing ads shortly asking you to call your congress critter to protect the mortgage interest deduction.

I personally would gladly trade it off for a lower overall tax rate even if it meant no overall reduction in my taxes. It's one reason real estate is priced artificially high and would contribute a a more normalized economy. But I wouldn't worry too much about this if you feel differently. There isn't going to be any meaningful "reform".

Just more saddling of future generations with unsustainable debt.

ReplayRandall
08-04-2017, 11:39 PM
Hey there RR Greenspan was blowing your tune today saying we are on the edge of the bubble and is going to burst, this comment I am not intending either way but following up with you.

It's all good Fasty, I just don't like the thoughts of Trump being a BUST going through my head.....At least not this soon, but it's up to him to remove those doubts that are creeping in. The American people don't like being played for a chump, and neither do I.

reckless
08-04-2017, 11:44 PM
Hey there RR Greenspan was blowing your tune today saying we are on the edge of the bubble and is going to burst, this comment I am not intending either way but following up with you.

Greenspan missed just about every inflection point in both the stock market and the economy throughourt his entire career. He's an old fool who should have been laughed out of his Fed Chair but survived because he's married to some ditzy, angry TV woman who reguarly said Hillary was the greatest, more or less.

Wise investors use this idiot's comments as a 'buy' signal.

reckless
08-04-2017, 11:46 PM
It's all good Fasty, I just don't like the thoughts of Trump being a BUST going through my head.....At least not this soon, but it's up to him to remove those doubts that are creeping in. The American people don't like being played for a chump, and neither do I.

Then Randall you should direct your anger to the those responsible -- the GOP leadership in both the House and Senate. They are ones putting the shiv in Trump's back. It's time for him to call out these clowns ... not sure yet if he understands all this, to be honest.

Lemon Drop Husker
08-04-2017, 11:50 PM
This reaction is why tax reform is so difficult and why it is far more likely that you see a tax cut with a resulting rise in the deficit than anything remotely resembling actual tax reform.

Cutting taxes without broadening the base is a recipe for financial ruin. But since everyone is for gutting everyone else's carve out but not their own, there will be no consensus on the neccesary base broadening.

There are plenty of lobbyists waiting to pounce on these proposals and I'm sure you'll be seeing ads shortly asking you to call your congress critter to protect the mortgage interest deduction.

I personally would gladly trade it off for a lower overall tax rate even if it meant no overall reduction in my taxes. It's one reason real estate is priced artificially high and would contribute a a more normalized economy. But I wouldn't worry too much about this if you feel differently. There isn't going to be any meaningful "reform".

Just more saddling of future generations with unsustainable debt.

Excellent post. :ThmbUp:

The "kicking of the can down the road" has to eventually stop. Sadly, we are so mired in supporting handout programs left and right that "tax and spend" is the accepted norm for half of our country.

How do you personally cut debt? Oh, that's right, you quit spending and start paying down that debt without adding to it. Novel concept.

ReplayRandall
08-04-2017, 11:54 PM
Greenspan missed just about every inflection point in both the stock market and the economy throughourt his entire career. He's an old fool who should have been laughed out of his Fed Chair but survived because he's married to some ditzy, angry TV woman who reguarly said Hillary was the greatest, more or less.

Wise investors use this idiot's comments as a 'buy' signal.

Do you think of Yellen in the same way?....She makes Greenspan look like a piker, even though they're both momzers...:bang:

fast4522
08-04-2017, 11:58 PM
Greenspan missed just about every inflection point in both the stock market and the economy throughourt his entire career. He's an old fool who should have been laughed out of his Fed Chair but survived because he's married to some ditzy, angry TV woman who reguarly said Hillary was the greatest, more or less.

Wise investors use this idiot's comments as a 'buy' signal.

My comment was someone of note was agreeing with RR, I did not say that I agreed with the position. Had Hillary won there is little doubt to me the economy would be tanking by now. Currently I think that we are in uncharted waters specifically because of President Trump and the Greenspan logic is dated.

reckless
08-05-2017, 12:02 AM
My comment was someone of note was agreeing with RR, I did not say that I agreed with the position. Had Hillary won there is little doubt to me the economy would be tanking by now. Currently I think that we are in uncharted waters specifically because of President Trump and the Greenspan logic is dated.

I didn't imply that you agreed with Greenspan, either. I also knew you were agreeing with Randall.

Tom
08-05-2017, 12:06 AM
I wouldn't put too much faith in anything you read at Yahoo.

ReplayRandall
08-05-2017, 12:06 AM
It's time for him to call out these clowns ... not sure yet if he understands all this, to be honest.

Ahhhh....You finally get my POINT. I want Trump to quit talking smack and start getting the job done....I don't care what it takes, just get it done while you're in Jersey for the next 17 days, or have Bannon do it for you...:lol:

reckless
08-05-2017, 12:10 AM
Do you think of Yellen in the same way?....She makes Greenspan look like a piker, even though they're both momzers...:bang:

I have issues with all demand economists. Personally, I think both Janet Yellen and Stanley Fisher should be fired. They are both Keynesians to the core.

But if Trump does let Yellen go, who's next? Gary Cohn? Another Goldman Sachs goniv. I guess he'll be less of a burden in the Fed Chair than in the White House, but that's just me.

Actually, all these slugs should be lined up against the wall: Yellen, Fisher, Jamie Dimond, the entire Goldman Sachs crew, and those running the Bank of England and the EU -- names escape me but they too ran the interests of Goldman Sachs in Europe and Asia.

JustRalph
08-05-2017, 12:13 AM
Big mortgages have hurt Americans over the last forty years. Banks and the government making it easy to get in loans added to the scam.

If you still had to put 20% down the market would be less artificial. Paying 30 yr mortgages on 200k houses with very little money down, resulting in property values being artificially inflated and rolled over multiple times in a decade is nothing but churn for the banks. Rarely does anybody pay for 15-30 years and the banks get all their interest up front.

Loan sharks wish they could get the same deal

The tax break just helps grease the wheel

Tom
08-05-2017, 12:15 AM
Trump is getting stuff done.
Would be getting a lot more done if our congress was not filled with useless liars like McCain and McConnel and Ryan. He has a party who will not allow him to succeed because it threatens their good ole boy club. We the people be damned. Anyone out there seriously believe either party cares at all for anyone but themselves? :pound::pound::puke:

There is only one man in DC looking our for the people.and his name is Donald.
It's like football - you need all the people to play to win. Trump might not be the best, but it in him and other like him to follow that will be our only hopes. Nothing good will ever come of the toilet that has been our government for decades. You can't unspoil food, you can't un-puke. You can't unwet your pants.

fast4522
08-05-2017, 12:15 AM
I didn't imply that you agreed with Greenspan, either. I also knew you were agreeing with Randall.

I was trying to give the guy a shout, I think my position about the uncharted waters is the one RR is open to looking at. Not that he is agreeing to it, but explains some things. Finding out conservatives are not 100% in agreement with each other but maybe in the 90 % range it is only a matter of time before other than conservatives also can fall into that 90% and turn the establishment upside down.

fast4522
08-05-2017, 12:24 AM
Trump is getting stuff done.
Would be getting a lot more done if our congress was not filled with useless liars like McCain and McConnel and Ryan. He has a party who will not allow him to succeed because it threatens their good ole boy club. We the people be damned. Anyone out there seriously believe either party cares at all for anyone but themselves? :pound::pound::puke:

There is only one man in DC looking our for the people.and his name is Donald.
It's like football - you need all the people to play to win. Trump might not be the best, but it in him and other like him to follow that will be our only hopes. Nothing good will ever come of the toilet that has been our government for decades. You can't unspoil food, you can't un-puke. You can't unwet your pants.

Now I am in agreement with you 96%+, I do not expect perfect but I credit the President for trying. The last President did not try at all because he was owned lock stock and barrel by the Bilderburg Group.

Lemon Drop Husker
08-05-2017, 12:27 AM
Big mortgages have hurt Americans over the last forty years. Banks and the government making it easy to get in loans added to the scam.

If you still had to put 20% down the market would be less artificial. Paying 30 yr mortgages on 200k houses with very little money down, resulting in property values being artificially inflated and rolled over multiple times in a decade is nothing but churn for the banks. Rarely does anybody pay for 15-30 years and the banks get all their interest up front.

Loan sharks wish they could get the same deal

The tax break just helps grease the wheel

What you are saying isn't a problem for banks or the Gov.

Problem was, WE THE PEOPLE wanted more than we could afford and thus even 5% down loans became acceptable along with a customary 15% "on the side" loan.

Blaming banks and the gov for a mortgage loan that you signed with your own hand is simply pathetic. If you can't afford it, or don't understand it, then what are you doing? Oh...., that's right, just passing the buck and the blame.

Our own peers were the real problem with the mortgage collapse. The American public signed those documents, promised to pay, and then didn't. Many over-extended their means to keep up with the Joneses. Many went with Interest Only, or intro rate type loans thinking life would get better in 3 to 5 to 7 years and it would all be fine.

We can BS about the markets, dividends, and the multitude of products one could buy via Wall Street wrapped around mortgage loans till our eyes bleed, but the real true problem was people "buying" homes they simply couldn't afford.

Tom
08-05-2017, 12:30 AM
Blaming banks and the gov for a mortgage loan that you signed with your own hand is simply pathetic.

But the banks had a job to NOT offer those loans in the first place. I guess we are wasting our time chasing El Chapo....just lock up his customers and all will be well.

AndyC
08-05-2017, 12:43 AM
......We can BS about the markets, dividends, and the multitude of products one could buy via Wall Street wrapped around mortgage loans till our eyes bleed, but the real true problem was people "buying" homes they simply couldn't afford.

When you have no skin in the game why not buy a home you can't afford? People were getting wealthy in the real estate market and when offered a free ticket to get involved it's easy to understand why they did.

Lemon Drop Husker
08-05-2017, 12:44 AM
But the banks had a job to NOT offer those loans in the first place. I guess we are wasting our time chasing El Chapo....just lock up his customers and all will be well.

Yeah, I know. Why should anybody be responsible for anything in their life.

Lemon Drop Husker
08-05-2017, 12:48 AM
When you have no skin in the game why not buy a home you can't afford? People were getting wealthy in the real estate market and when offered a free ticket to get involved it's easy to understand why they did.

Landlords weren't the problem, much less real estate aficionados who thought they could turn a quick buck.

People not paying $600K+ mortgage payments was the real problem. Especially when their home became half of what if cost. Nobody is renting a $600K home unless they are dumber than a post.

kingfin66
08-05-2017, 12:51 AM
I wouldn't put too much faith in anything you read at Yahoo.

Okay, which news source do you prefer. I will go get it! It is covered by many more outlets than Yahoo. Please don't tell me that Yahoo is fake news too. I will be crushed. I go there for my quick news, sports and finance info.

AndyC
08-05-2017, 12:53 AM
Considering how home ownership is now at its all time low, please correct if this may not be correct. Something has to be put into the the numbers to the give column, it all can not be gravy because there has to be some balance. Now take into consideration that it is not the only thing being looked at or the one that makes it into the final bill. This is way too preliminary but worth discussion. Keep in mind getting to the 15 to 22 % level will mean big change of something, does anyone think if a flat tax became law you would still have a mortgage deduction? I favor a flat tax better than any idea but know in order to get there much will have to change along the way.

With social engineering so ingrained in the tax code, a flat tax would have no chance of passing.

Also, could you imagine the complaining you would hear when a person who earns $100,000,0000 pays the same rate as a person who makes $50,000?

ReplayRandall
08-05-2017, 12:56 AM
When you have no skin in the game why not buy a home you can't afford? People were getting wealthy in the real estate market and when offered a free ticket to get involved it's easy to understand why they did.

Landlords weren't the problem, much less real estate aficionados who thought they could turn a quick buck.

People not paying $600K+ mortgage payments was the real problem. Especially when their home became half of what if cost. Nobody is renting a $600K home unless they are dumber than a post.

Looks just like the stock market does today, doesn't it?....Always a bigger con just around the corner, the greed never stops.

Lemon Drop Husker
08-05-2017, 12:56 AM
With social engineering so ingrained in the tax code, a flat tax would have no chance of passing.

Also, could you imagine the complaining you would hear when a person who earns $100,000,0000 pays the same rate as a person who makes $50,000?

A Flat Tax doesn't mean it is the same rate for everyone.

They are supposedly looking to draw up 3 rates depending upon your income. Something like 15%, 25%, and 35%. Doubt that is right, but something of that nature.

fast4522
08-05-2017, 12:59 AM
With social engineering so ingrained in the tax code, a flat tax would have no chance of passing.

Also, could you imagine the complaining you would hear when a person who earns $100,000,0000 pays the same rate as a person who makes $50,000?


Complaining who gives a shit, let them eat cake. The beauty of the flat is everyone pays.

Lemon Drop Husker
08-05-2017, 12:59 AM
Looks just like the stock market does today, doesn't it?....Always a bigger con just around the corner, the greed never stops.

Fine by me for now, but on a hair trigger to move my 401K into bonds at a moments notice. :)

ReplayRandall
08-05-2017, 01:04 AM
Fine by me for now, but on a hair trigger to move my 401K into bonds at a moments notice. :)

Wouldn't you rather be a tad early and give up a little, than be a day late and lose a lot?.....BTW, bonds may not be safe enough.

MONEY
08-05-2017, 01:06 AM
Nobody is renting a $600K home unless they are dumber than a post.
My brother owns a bunch of houses worth over $500K. He rents them out mostly (Short term leases) to pro athletes and corporations.

ReplayRandall
08-05-2017, 01:10 AM
My brother owns a bunch of houses worth over $500K. He rents them out mostly (Short term leases) to pro athletes and corporations.

That's nice that your brother is the exception to what LDH's point was....BTW, if the Texans can get any production out of the QB position, their defense can take them to the Super Bowl...;)

Lemon Drop Husker
08-05-2017, 01:53 AM
Wouldn't you rather be a tad early and give up a little, than be a day late and lose a lot?.....BTW, bonds may not be safe enough.

Damn good question, and yes, I know bonds may not be a soft spot to land for anybody.

Enjoying this 25-30% ride while it lasts. :ThmbUp:

Lemon Drop Husker
08-05-2017, 01:57 AM
That's nice that your brother is the exception to what LDH's point was....BTW, if the Texans can get any production out of the QB position, their defense can take them to the Super Bowl...;)

Didn't you know the 2008 mortgage collapse happened because NFL players couldn't pay the rent?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79KzZ0YqLvo

Actor
08-05-2017, 03:15 AM
Mortgage interest on a property that you rent to someone else is a business expense which is deductible. Trump is into real estate big time so we know he's not going to sign any bill that takes that away from himself. So ...

Rent your house to someone else, then the mortgage interest becomes a business expense which is deductible. Then rent a house to live in from someone else who is doing the same thing.

chadk66
08-05-2017, 08:41 AM
with the economy taking off, tax cuts will be much easier to get passed. Trump is a smart enough business man to ask for far more than he really intends to receive.

forced89
08-05-2017, 08:56 AM
They are also looking at doubling the Standard Tax deduction.

If you are single, that means from $6,300 to $12,600.

If you are married, it goes from $12,600 to $25,200.

Unless your mortgage payment stretches into the $3,000 a month range, you'll be alright. And if you are paying $3,000 a month for your home, then you are likely "alright" with how things are going in the economy right now.

Agree with the above. If one has low or moderate income, getting a lower rate in exchange for losing the mortgage interest deduction is a plus.

lamboguy
08-05-2017, 09:53 AM
i think the point is that the less that Trump does the better the country runs. he has brought up things that have no chance of getting done like healthcare and this tax change. he gets the congress to spin there wheels at something that is dead before it gets to them. it prevents them from doing anything else that will empty out our pockets.

Mr. Trump is very sharp and knows exactly what he is doing. i wish the guys before him had played more golf as well.

AndyC
08-05-2017, 10:37 AM
A Flat Tax doesn't mean it is the same rate for everyone.

They are supposedly looking to draw up 3 rates depending upon your income. Something like 15%, 25%, and 35%. Doubt that is right, but something of that nature.

Actually a flat tax does mean the same rate for everyone.

AndyC
08-05-2017, 10:41 AM
But the banks had a job to NOT offer those loans in the first place. I guess we are wasting our time chasing El Chapo....just lock up his customers and all will be well.

Typically banks would never offer those loans but they were heavily incentivized to do so. Once again government stepping in trying to improve the marketplace by manipulating either supply or demand.

AndyC
08-05-2017, 10:46 AM
Landlords weren't the problem, much less real estate aficionados who thought they could turn a quick buck.

People not paying $600K+ mortgage payments was the real problem. Especially when their home became half of what if cost. Nobody is renting a $600K home unless they are dumber than a post.

Actually I wasn't referring to landlords. I agree that for the most part they were not the problem. I was referring to people who were renters. They had been sitting by watching homeowners accrue substantial equity because of appreciation and they were given a chance to participate for free.

AndyC
08-05-2017, 10:48 AM
My brother owns a bunch of houses worth over $500K. He rents them out mostly (Short term leases) to pro athletes and corporations.

In the People's Republic of California that would be considered a starter home.

AndyC
08-05-2017, 10:55 AM
Mortgage interest on a property that you rent to someone else is a business expense which is deductible. Trump is into real estate big time so we know he's not going to sign any bill that takes that away from himself. So ...

Rent your house to someone else, then the mortgage interest becomes a business expense which is deductible. Then rent a house to live in from someone else who is doing the same thing.

Most suggestions about limiting mortgage interest has been restricted to personal residences and not rental property.

Limiting or doing away with the mortgage deduction is not a new idea. The IRC currently only allows interest deductions on loans up to $1,000,000 on a personal residence.

MONEY
08-05-2017, 11:13 AM
In the People's Republic of California that would be considered a starter home.
In the Houston you can get a big house for $500K.
You can get over 7000 square feet of living space, walk in closets, 4 or 5 full baths and an in ground pool.
In N.Y. for the same price you get a 200 square foot furnished room, a coat hook, a shared toilet and a leaky ceiling.

davew
08-05-2017, 03:06 PM
somehow the real estate lobbyists got this into the tax code and even got it for a 'second home'

I know many people who have student loan debt and hence a mortgage on their life - in my opinion interest paid on this is more worthy than a second home....

AndyC
08-05-2017, 07:44 PM
somehow the real estate lobbyists got this into the tax code and even got it for a 'second home'

I know many people who have student loan debt and hence a mortgage on their life - in my opinion interest paid on this is more worthy than a second home....

Seeing how many in congress have a home near DC and one in their home state it's not hard to figure out why interest deductions are allowed on 2 homes.

Lemon Drop Husker
08-05-2017, 09:15 PM
In the People's Republic of California that would be considered a starter home.

Not gonna lie. I did the actual laugh out loud. :ThmbUp:

There is an uprising in Cali to "secede" from the United States. I say, have at it.

thaskalos
08-05-2017, 09:34 PM
In the People's Republic of California that would be considered a starter home.

Trump should raise their taxes...since they could obviously afford it.

kingfin66
08-05-2017, 11:21 PM
California is an interesting case in taxation. Many people pay very little in property taxes due to Proposition 13. The basics of the proposition are that property taxes got a huge rollback of about 57% (officially, back to 1976 levels). Future increases were then capped at 1%. A real life example that I am involved in is that I inherited a home that was built in 1952 by my grandparents. In 1996 my grandmother gave it to my uncle. He passed in March and I inherited the home. The Redfin and Zillow values of the home - I know they are not entirely accurate - are about $380k. The yearly taxes are $526. As favorable a situation as this is for long time home owners, governments are unable to generate enough revenue from property taxes. Their solution was to impose a state income tax that now stands at 13 percent. By comparison, I own a home in Washington valued at $528,000. The property taxes are $6580 per year. They will increase shortly as the state legislature (house controlled by Dems, senate by Repubs) increased the stae property tax by 44 percents. Bastards.

JustRalph
08-05-2017, 11:43 PM
California is an interesting case in taxation. Many people pay very little in property taxes due to Proposition 13. The basics of the proposition are that property taxes got a huge rollback of about 57% (officially, back to 1976 levels). Future increases were then capped at 1%. A real life example that I am involved in is that I inherited a home that was built in 1952 by my grandparents. In 1996 my grandmother gave it to my uncle. He passed in March and I inherited the home. The Redfin and Zillow values of the home - I know they are not entirely accurate - are about $380k. The yearly taxes are $526. As favorable a situation as this is for long time home owners, governments are unable to generate enough revenue from property taxes. Their solution was to impose a state income tax that now stands at 13 percent. By comparison, I own a home in Washington valued at $528,000. The property taxes are $6580 per year. They will increase shortly as the state legislature (house controlled by Dems, senate by Repubs) increased the stae property tax by 44 percents. Bastards.

44 % ? Holy shit! That's going to obviously put a ton of older people right out of their homes. How can it not?

AndyC
08-06-2017, 12:24 AM
California is an interesting case in taxation. Many people pay very little in property taxes due to Proposition 13. The basics of the proposition are that property taxes got a huge rollback of about 57% (officially, back to 1976 levels). Future increases were then capped at 1%. A real life example that I am involved in is that I inherited a home that was built in 1952 by my grandparents. In 1996 my grandmother gave it to my uncle. He passed in March and I inherited the home. The Redfin and Zillow values of the home - I know they are not entirely accurate - are about $380k. The yearly taxes are $526. As favorable a situation as this is for long time home owners, governments are unable to generate enough revenue from property taxes. Their solution was to impose a state income tax that now stands at 13 percent. By comparison, I own a home in Washington valued at $528,000. The property taxes are $6580 per year. They will increase shortly as the state legislature (house controlled by Dems, senate by Repubs) increased the stae property tax by 44 percents. Bastards.

You are the exception and not the rule. Californians pay quite a bit in property taxes because the home values are so high. The average residence changes hands about once every six years allowing for frequent revaluations. California is hardly suffering from a lack of property tax revenue. See https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-the-highest-and-lowest-property-taxes/11585/

Lemon Drop Husker
08-06-2017, 01:12 AM
You are the exception and not the rule. Californians pay quite a bit in property taxes because the home values are so high. The average residence changes hands about once every six years allowing for frequent revaluations. California is hardly suffering from a lack of property tax revenue. See https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-the-highest-and-lowest-property-taxes/11585/

California is also trying Single-Payer health care. How is that going?

kingfin66
08-06-2017, 01:21 AM
44 % ? Holy shit! That's going to obviously put a ton of older people right out of their homes. How can it not?

That is an increase in the state portion of the property taxes. The county portion packs a wallop as well. I don't know if it quite a put them out of their homes increase, but it is substantial. Of course, we have a number of other increases to our taxes as well, especially the ST3 increase (Sound Transit) which increased sales tax, property tax, and vehicle tabs fees. The ST3 increase was an initiative that was passed by voters (I know, WTF right?). The state property tax increase was done to fund education. The legislature was under the gun due to a Washington Supreme Court decision known as the "McCleary Decision" that required the legislature to fully fund education. They were under threat of being held in contempt.

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/crunching-the-numbers-over-state-property-taxes-complicated/

The way this impacts me is that I saw it coming and cut in other areas. Gone is the newspaper subscription. Cable bye, bye. Buy a new car? Nope, will drive the 12 and 11 year old cars until the wheels fall off. In other words, it hurts the economy. I have actually always liked the split between house and senate in our state government. Every time the dems would try to raise taxes, the repubs would say no. It appeals to my fiscal conservative side. Not this time.

I truly do see a tax payer revolt coming in Washington. Sadly, the politicians don't. They want more money and are even trying to impose an income tax on Seattle residents. That is the Seattle City Council doing that - I believe you posted a link to that story. On the car tab thing I mentioned above, car tab fees have at least doubled. It is putting a huge burden on taxpayers, most of whom are like me and will never benefit from the new rail line.

Lemon Drop Husker
08-06-2017, 02:45 AM
That is an increase in the state portion of the property taxes. The county portion packs a wallop as well. I don't know if it quite a put them out of their homes increase, but it is substantial. Of course, we have a number of other increases to our taxes as well, especially the ST3 increase (Sound Transit) which increased sales tax, property tax, and vehicle tabs fees. The ST3 increase was an initiative that was passed by voters (I know, WTF right?). The state property tax increase was done to fund education. The legislature was under the gun due to a Washington Supreme Court decision known as the "McCleary Decision" that required the legislature to fully fund education. They were under threat of being held in contempt.

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/crunching-the-numbers-over-state-property-taxes-complicated/

The way this impacts me is that I saw it coming and cut in other areas. Gone is the newspaper subscription. Cable bye, bye. Buy a new car? Nope, will drive the 12 and 11 year old cars until the wheels fall off. In other words, it hurts the economy. I have actually always liked the split between house and senate in our state government. Every time the dems would try to raise taxes, the repubs would say no. It appeals to my fiscal conservative side. Not this time.

I truly do see a tax payer revolt coming in Washington. Sadly, the politicians don't. They want more money and are even trying to impose an income tax on Seattle residents. That is the Seattle City Council doing that - I believe you posted a link to that story. On the car tab thing I mentioned above, car tab fees have at least doubled. It is putting a huge burden on taxpayers, most of whom are like me and will never benefit from the new rail line.

Tax AND spend YOUR money. The Democratic way.

Sure, all the poors get shit, but what about the true hard working American? More taxes to support people who DON'T work?

lamboguy
08-06-2017, 05:22 AM
20 years ago when i first bought my house i was paying less than $3000 a year in property taxes, today its close to $30,000 and the tax rate never went up, just the assessment went wild and you get taxed up to 2 1/2% of what the value is deemed to be. its certainly expensive, but i live in Boston that has plenty of rules and regulation's. the air quality and drinking water are real good unlike places like California or Texas that have lower tax rates.

Jess Hawsen Arown
08-06-2017, 09:14 AM
Wow, just when I was starting to get behind his fiscal policies I see this story. I recall hearing this before. Basically, if true, Trump intends to pay for his tax cuts for the wealthiest by screwing pretty much everybody else. I suspect that there are many homeowners across the political spectrum here at PaceAdvantage who would be adversely impacted by this change. Look on the bright side, when you are writing your larger than normal check to the IRS, you can write on the memo line, "At least it's not Hillary."

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/trump-weighs-slashing-one-popular-tax-deductions-182402330.html

ALL DEDUCTIONS SHOULD BE ELIMINATED!!

This would reduce the IRS to pin prick and tax rates can be dropped exponentially,.

Clocker
08-06-2017, 11:56 AM
California is also trying Single-Payer health care. How is that going?

Going, going, gone.

The Dems wrote the bill without addressing the cost, or how to pay for it. Then they ran the numbers. California's current budget is about $180 billion a year. Single payer would cost an additional $400 billion a year. Apparently the bill got put aside for a while. :rolleyes:

AndyC
08-06-2017, 12:34 PM
20 years ago when i first bought my house i was paying less than $3000 a year in property taxes, today its close to $30,000 and the tax rate never went up, just the assessment went wild and you get taxed up to 2 1/2% of what the value is deemed to be. its certainly expensive, but i live in Boston that has plenty of rules and regulation's. the air quality and drinking water are real good unlike places like California or Texas that have lower tax rates.

The water and air in California are not bad. As for taxes, Californians pay more overall taxes than people in Massachusetts.

AndyC
08-06-2017, 12:36 PM
Going, going, gone.

The Dems wrote the bill without addressing the cost, or how to pay for it. Then they ran the numbers. California's current budget is about $180 billion a year. Single payer would cost an additional $400 billion a year. Apparently the bill got put aside for a while. :rolleyes:

Not so fast. The Dems are looking to remove their speaker in the assembly because he did not support the single-payer bill and move it along.

Clocker
08-06-2017, 01:09 PM
Not so fast. The Dems are looking to remove their speaker in the assembly because he did not support the single-payer bill and move it along.

A Dem leader in the California assembly with a sense of reality? How did that happen? :rolleyes:

kingfin66
08-06-2017, 01:41 PM
ALL DEDUCTIONS SHOULD BE ELIMINATED!!

This would reduce the IRS to pin prick and tax rates can be dropped exponentially,.

I can't agree with this, but I would support doing away with any deductions that make people a net negative tax payer (i.e the earned income tax credit).

kingfin66
08-06-2017, 01:44 PM
Tax AND spend YOUR money. The Democratic way.

Sure, all the poors get shit, but what about the true hard working American? More taxes to support people who DON'T work?

I used to be able to count on the Senate Republicans to check the revenue increases, but this time they were equally culpable. With other increases it was the citizenry that screwed themselves. The backlash on the vehicle tab increase has been incredible. People vote themselves a tax and only then to they look at the fine print. That actually may be too generous; they never even looked at the fine print and then got the bill and said WTF!

Tom
08-06-2017, 02:18 PM
RUSSIANS must have interfered.

We have to have some kind of test to decide who is smart enough to vote.
Put two containers in a room and make the potential voter fo in and shine his shoe.

He can vote if he shines them with Shinola.

lamboguy
08-06-2017, 03:30 PM
The water and air in California are not bad. As for taxes, Californians pay more overall taxes than people in Massachusetts.
i was referring to the real estate taxes. i have been to so. cal and coughed all the time and thought the water tasted awful.

Jess Hawsen Arown
08-06-2017, 04:01 PM
I can't agree with this, but I would support doing away with any deductions that make people a net negative tax payer (i.e the earned income tax credit).

I was responding specifically to the issue on the thread. However, I am a proponent of making a national sales tax THE ONLY TAX. Sadly, as long as we do not have term limits, the special interests that own the career politicians in Congress will never let this happen.

AndyC
08-06-2017, 04:45 PM
i was referring to the real estate taxes. i have been to so. cal and coughed all the time and thought the water tasted awful.

I know what you were referring to but you made it sound like California couldn't have clean water or air because they didn't collect enough tax. Whether or not they have clean air or water is not a function of their tax collections.

AndyC
08-06-2017, 04:49 PM
I can't agree with this, but I would support doing away with any deductions that make people a net negative tax payer (i.e the earned income tax credit).

There are no deductions in determining the earned income credit.

kingfin66
08-06-2017, 11:03 PM
There are no deductions in determining the earned income credit.

I am aware of that. Not sure why I posted that???? Thank you.