John McCain voted no...

[ElKabong]

... maybe ridiculing McCain for being captured in Vietnam wasn't smart politics after all... Douchebag. Revenge was served cold tonight. Had to feel good to McCain.

But... McCain gave a very legit reason for voting no tonight. His speech was spot on.

As a Vet, as an American, I took offense to trump ridiculing McCain. Good to see the right guy get the last laugh.

[jms62]

... maybe ridiculing McCain for being captured in Vietnam wasn't smart politics after all... Douchebag. Revenge was served cold tonight. Had to feel good to McCain.

But... McCain gave a very legit reason for voting no tonight. His speech was spot on.

As a Vet, as an American, I took offense to trump ridiculing McCain. Good to see the right guy get the last laugh.

:ThmbUp: Good post! +1 Donnie the Draft Dodger and his bone spurs couldnt hold a candle to McCain.

[forced89]

Let's see how Arizona residents react when their ObamaCard premiums double once again.

[Fager Fan]

... maybe ridiculing McCain for being captured in Vietnam wasn't smart politics after all... Douchebag. Revenge was served cold tonight. Had to feel good to McCain.

But... McCain gave a very legit reason for voting no tonight. His speech was spot on.

As a Vet, as an American, I took offense to trump ridiculing McCain. Good to see the right guy get the last laugh.

If it was revenge as you say, then that's a child in a suit.

This is why I despise McCain. I like someone who'll stand up to the majority, but not when he's on the wrong side of an issue, which often he is.

[MutuelClerk]

And they only needed tumor votes.

[woodtoo]

And they only needed tumor votes.
:D After his big unity speech the other day, McCain is a big dork.

[jms62]

Sounds like McCain actually wants to accomplish something substantial and in our best interest rather than simply accomplish something to say you did.. Really odd that many on these boards (older Americans) would face sky rocketing costs per CBO estimates. But in true Trumpflake fashion they will call Fake news and Blast the CBO. You know the same folks that were hailing the Impartial CBO when they negatively reported on Obama care....

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mccain-explains-why-he-voted-to-kill-skinny-obamacare-repeal-bill/ar-AAoXIe7?ocid=spartanntp

[MutuelClerk]

I've never really liked McCain but I respect what he did yesterday. Trump wants yes men. We need people in D.C. who look out for us. And not the insurance companies. Bravo John.

[Greyfox]

McCain did the right thing.
He couldn't get assurances that a "Skinny Repeal" would go to a House Committee where a more favorable bill could be worked on.
Better off to let the Dems own Obamacare and let it crash on it's own.
The Reps would have owned the "Skinny Repeal" which was apparently, and not using a pun, a very sick bill.
The Republicans have had 7 years to come up with something better than Obamacare. They should have had a new bill in place for Trump's first day in office. They didn't.
The time will come when they either Repeal and Replace Obamacare or the voters will Repeal and Replace the Republicans!
The clock is ticking towards 2018.

[Clocker]

McCain did the right thing.
He couldn't get assurances that a "Skinny Repeal" would go to a House Committee where a more favorable bill could be worked on.
Better off to let the Dems own Obamacare and let it crash on it's own.
The Reps would have owned the "Skinny Repeal" which was apparently, and not using a pun, a very sick bill.


Agree. It was a terrible bill and it would have hastened the death of ObamaCare and put the onus of millions of people without access to insurance on the GOP.

McCain did not kill the bill, 48 Democrats and 3 Republicans did, and McCain's "reasoning", I hate to admit, was the most rational of the 51. That certainly doesn't reflect well on the other 50 nays.

[MutuelClerk]

House and Senate. None of them have the testicular fortitude to do the right thing. Trump wants any kind of legislation passed just to put a check mark on his list of " accomplishments".

[jms62]

Agree. It was a terrible bill and it would have hastened the death of ObamaCare and put the onus of millions of people without access to insurance on the GOP.

McCain did not kill the bill, 48 Democrats and 3 Republicans did, and McCain's "reasoning", I hate to admit, was the most rational of the 51. That certainly doesn't reflect well on the other 50 nays.

So in fact McCain Saved the Republican party from making a catastrophic mistake and should be lauded but some can't think that far in advance. How some here are campaigning AGAINST their own best interest is astounding.

[AndyC]

So in fact McCain Saved the Republican party from making a catastrophic mistake and should be lauded but some can't think that far in advance. How some here are campaigning AGAINST their own best interest is astounding.

How could getting rid of parts of Obamacare be a catastrophic mistake? Politically, possibly but it would have been a small but important step to take.

[_______]

I think Murkowski was another interesting vote.

The admin had Interior Secretary Zinke make a ham fisted threat to re-evaluate building a road and some energy development projects in Alaska if she didn't get on board. Yep. They threatened to protect the environment.

So yesterday Murkowski blocked a number of nominations to posts in Interior. And voted against the skinny repeal.

Winning.

[lamboguy]

How could getting rid of parts of Obamacare be a catastrophic mistake? Politically, possibly but it would have been a small but important step to take.these guys that sit in congress get paid $176k per year plus expenses. truthfully none of them are worth 6 cents from either side.

its become very comical on this board how liberals and conservatives jump to fast conclusions. for what its worth they are both the same whether you like it or not, they both end up fleecing you out of your cash from either direction and both say they have the right way! keep on posting though, its fun to look at.

[jms62]

How could getting rid of parts of Obamacare be a catastrophic mistake? Politically, possibly but it would have been a small but important step to take.

It was clear I was speaking politically. As someone said previously they would then be the de-facto owner of Health care and voters would hold them accountable come 2018.

[Clocker]

How could getting rid of parts of Obamacare be a catastrophic mistake? Politically, possibly but it would have been a small but important step to take.

Mostly it would have gotten rid of funding, especially from mandates. The insurance part would still be there and would need huge rate increases and/or more bail-outs from the government to prop it up. Leading to a quicker collapse of ObamaCare and no alternatives in place for people in need of insurance. All of which would be blamed on the GOP, driving people toward the Democrats who would claim to have a magic solution.

[tundral]

Trump can't bully McCain. Only if more people can be like McCain
This world would be a way better place.

[PaceAdvantage]

Trump can't bully McCain. Only if more people can be like McCain
This world would be a way better place.Did you vote for him in 2008? Or did you fall victim to all those who scared you away from McCain with tales of him "dying any minute now" and "OMG PALIN!"

My guess is, you didn't vote for him in 2008. But I might be wrong.

I voted for him.

[AndyC]

It was clear I was speaking politically. As someone said previously they would then be the de-facto owner of Health care and voters would hold them accountable come 2018.

So now we get to deal with the fact that all of these politicians got re-elected or elected based on a promise that they don't have the gonads to deliver on. Regardless of the outcome of the vote they are the de-facto owner Health Care and should be held accountable.

[Saratoga_Mike]

... maybe ridiculing McCain for being captured in Vietnam wasn't smart politics after all... Douchebag.

As a Vet, as an American, I took offense to trump ridiculing McCain.

As did anyone with any decency. It was especially offensive coming from Trump and his five deferments, but those "bone spurs" can be very painful, kind of like spending time in the POW camp.

[barn32]

... maybe ridiculing McCain for being captured in Vietnam wasn't smart politics after all... Douchebag.

As a Vet, as an American, I took offense to trump ridiculing McCain.As did anyone with any decency. It was especially offensive coming from Trump and his five deferments, but those "bone spurs" can be very painful, kind of like spending time in the POW camp.But at least Trump is a Christian and has all of those wonderful Bible verses he's memorized to fall back on.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10qbt0LHmvE

[AndyC]

Trump can't bully McCain. Only if more people can be like McCain
This world would be a way better place.

You mean more vindictive and power grabbing?

McCain has essentially just told the senate that all healthcare bills need to come through him. And you better play ball with him on everything else. His lame excuse for not voting for the bill was that he thought it would not make it into conference despite assurances that it would.

[incoming]

John McCain distinguished himself as a very loyal an honorable member of our military....THANK YOU.

As a politician and a loyal Republican he STUNK!!! I can think of countless times he stood in the way of good conservative Republican legislation and voted with the Democrats. Then in the following Sunday shows he would proudly boast of his accomplishments. The Democrat Party made their biggest Congressional gains when he ran for president. Giving them large majority in both houses.:puke:

[letswastemoney]

I want free health care for all citizens even though I support Trump.

It's wrong we give health care to illegal immigrants though, which is one reason why I'll never support Democrats.

[mostpost]

Let's see how Arizona residents react when their ObamaCard premiums double once again.
Obamacare premiums never doubled or even close to it. You're confusing what a few insurance companies wanted to charge with what people were willing to pay. If I charge $20 for a glass of lemonade at my stand, while the 10 year old across the street charged $1, does that mean the cost of a glass of lemonade went up 2000%. Of course not, because no one is going to buy my lemonade.
Damn that little brat!!

[ReplayRandall]

McCain's final payback to POTUS Trump....He will not be heard from again..:rip:

[mostpost]

As a Vet, as an American, I took offense to trump ridiculing McCain.But at least Trump is a Christian and has all of those wonderful Bible verses he's memorized to fall back on.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10qbt0LHmvE
He could have cited my favorite verse. The one where Jesus talks about the Chinese atheist.

[barahona44]

John McCain distinguished himself as a very loyal an honorable member of our military....THANK YOU.

As a politician and a loyal Republican he STUNK!!! I can think of countless times he stood in the way of good conservative Republican legislation and voted with the Democrats. Then in the following Sunday shows he would proudly boast of his accomplishments. The Democrat Party made their biggest Congressional gains when he ran for president. Giving them large majority in both houses.:puke:

2006 the Democrats gained 37 seats (31 House, 6 Senate)

2008 The Democrats gained 29 seats (21 House 8 Senate)

Those were because of W, not McCain.With his appeal to independents, you could make a case the election would have been a bigger debacle with someone else running.The GOP knew they were going to get their ass kicked from now to next Wednesday, so McCain was a gold watch nomination like Bob Dole in '96 or Walter Mondale in '84, a reward for years of service to the party.

[Fager Fan]

Sounds like McCain actually wants to accomplish something substantial and in our best interest rather than simply accomplish something to say you did.. Really odd that many on these boards (older Americans) would face sky rocketing costs per CBO estimates. But in true Trumpflake fashion they will call Fake news and Blast the CBO. You know the same folks that were hailing the Impartial CBO when they negatively reported on Obama care....

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mccain-explains-why-he-voted-to-kill-skinny-obamacare-repeal-bill/ar-AAoXIe7?ocid=spartanntp

My insurance went up by over 50%, so why should I not thinking going back to pre-Obamacare wouldn't be better?

[Fager Fan]

Obamacare premiums never doubled or even close to it. You're confusing what a few insurance companies wanted to charge with what people were willing to pay. If I charge $20 for a glass of lemonade at my stand, while the 10 year old across the street charged $1, does that mean the cost of a glass of lemonade went up 2000%. Of course not, because no one is going to buy my lemonade.
Damn that little brat!!

You're crazy. It's not disputable that premiums have gone up considerably.

[mostpost]

You're crazy. It's not disputable that premiums have gone up considerably.
Here is a link to an HHS study that proves I am not crazy.
https://aspe.hhs.gov/system/files/pdf/198636/MarketplaceRate.pdf
Right at the beginning you find this:
 Initial issuer rate filings do not provide sufficient information to predict what premiums Marketplace consumers will actually pay next year because they do not account for rate review, consumer shopping behavior, or tax credits. For plan year 2016, early estimates based on rate filings alone suggested higher premium increases than what Marketplace consumers paid.

 Two-thirds (67 percent) of HealthCare.gov consumers selected a new plan in 2016: all new consumers, plus 43 percent of returning consumers. Taking into account shopping, the increase in the average premium was 8 percent between 2015 and 2016.

 Among the roughly 85 percent of HealthCare.gov consumers with premium tax credits, the average monthly net premium increased just $4, or 4 percent, from 2015 to 2016.

According to table one on page four, full average monthly premiums increased by $30 from 2015 to 2016. That is an 8% increase. However, after you add in the Obamacare subsidies, the increase is from $100 to $104 dollars.

Table two shows that consumers can save from $144 to $852 a year by shopping around and changing plans; depending on which state they reside in.

Yes, your rates can go up considerably if you don't do your homework; if you just accept the increase, but if you shop around you will be okay. The problem is many people are too lazy to put in the effort.

[jms62]

My insurance went up by over 50%, so why should I not thinking going back to pre-Obamacare wouldn't be better?

Oh only every CBO analysis of Trumpcare states that your premiums go up and if you are over 60 they go up considerably. But hey in your alternate world CBO is now fake news. But I guess then you will be blaming the insurance companies for your fleecing which you should have been all along.

[Fager Fan]

I can post dozens of articles that back me up, but I assume you two know how to Google.

[jms62]

I can post dozens of articles that back me up, but I assume you two know how to Google.

You sure showed us. I'm certain intellectual laziness isn't your problem:rip:

[forced89]

McCain did the right thing......Better off to let the Dems own Obamacare and let it crash on it's own.


McCain did his fellow Republicans a favor by giving them cover. He allowed them to vote "yes" for the record saving them from having to make the tough vote themselves.

IMO the result will be the survival of ObamaCare with subtantial modifications. Dems will be able to say they saved it. Reps will be able to get rid of its most onerous provisions. They both will claim victory!

[chadk66]

I know several companies that had their premiums increased 25-50%. But many companies took a much higher deductible than a huge increase. Most of the companies were given an option of going to a much higher deductible or a huge premium increase.

[JustRalph]

If you trust the CBO numbers....you're crazy

[reckless]

Here is a link to an HHS study that proves I am not crazy.
https://aspe.hhs.gov/system/files/pdf/198636/MarketplaceRate.pdf
Right at the beginning you find this:
 Initial issuer rate filings do not provide sufficient information to predict what premiums Marketplace consumers will actually pay next year because they do not account for rate review, consumer shopping behavior, or tax credits. For plan year 2016, early estimates based on rate filings alone suggested higher premium increases than what Marketplace consumers paid.

 Two-thirds (67 percent) of HealthCare.gov consumers selected a new plan in 2016: all new consumers, plus 43 percent of returning consumers. Taking into account shopping, the increase in the average premium was 8 percent between 2015 and 2016.

 Among the roughly 85 percent of HealthCare.gov consumers with premium tax credits, the average monthly net premium increased just $4, or 4 percent, from 2015 to 2016.

According to table one on page four, full average monthly premiums increased by $30 from 2015 to 2016. That is an 8% increase. However, after you add in the Obamacare subsidies, the increase is from $100 to $104 dollars.

Table two shows that consumers can save from $144 to $852 a year by shopping around and changing plans; depending on which state they reside in.

Yes, your rates can go up considerably if you don't do your homework; if you just accept the increase, but if you shop around you will be okay. The problem is many people are too lazy to put in the effort.

If Obama Care is such a wonderful health care alternative, why are members of Congress and their staffs exempt from 'Obama Care' and all the mandates??

I heard on a local radio show where Senators have 50 or so insurance companies and plans to choose from!!

And, of course, the US taxpayer foots the bill without getting a similar deal about options and choice.

[Tom]

What Trump did to McCain was poor taste.
What McCain did to America was reprehensible.
I have not one ounce of respect left for this has-been.
HE is what is wrong with the GOP,

[Fager Fan]

You sure showed us. I'm certain intellectual laziness isn't your problem:rip:

You sure showed me too!

The guy posted the results from just healthcare.gov as if that tells the story regarding the entire population's health insurance. The results were a modest increase AFTER taking credits that most of us can't take.

My insurance, not through healthcare.gov went up considerably and I have a higher deductible. What about you? Or do you even know?

[davew]

there needs to be term limits

https://www.yahoo.com/news/joe-biden-reportedly-called-john-172211732.html

[MargieRose]

I'm all for senators voting with the people; most of the Repubs did in that vote, but that's precisely what McCain, Collins and Murkowski didn't do. It's been reported that McCain was heard saying to Schumer, after that duplicitous laugh: "Let's see Donald make America great now!" Was that his version of voting with the people, or was it just sheer vindictiveness? Methinks, the latter.

The bill was going to go to "conference;" it wasn't being voted into law...per Trey Gowdy. McCain stopped THAT! Also per Gowdy, Paul Ryan had made that (going to conference) perfectly clear before the vote. Obviously, McCain had his own agenda in mind, IMO.

Trey Gowdy speaks on the issue and more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INORrmpmI5E

[Fager Fan]

Trey Gowdy is the first politician to come along in a very long time that I really like and respect. He's extremely sharp, with both intelligence and common sense. I believe him to be honest, which I believe few politicians are. To top it off, he's funny. I hope that my opinion of him remains the same over the coming years (meaning he doesn't disappoint and prove that he's just like McCain and other sorry politicians) and that I'm able to vote him for President.

[Fager Fan]

I'm all for senators voting with the people; most of the Repubs did in that vote, but that's precisely what McCain, Collins and Murkowski didn't do. It's been reported that McCain was heard saying to Schumer, after that duplicitous laugh: "Let's see Donald make America great now!" Was that his version of voting with the people, or was it just sheer vindictiveness? Methinks, the latter.

The bill was going to go to "conference;" it wasn't being voted into law...per Trey Gowdy. McCain stopped THAT! Also per Gowdy, Paul Ryan had made that (going to conference) perfectly clear before the vote. Obviously, McCain had his own agenda in mind, IMO.

Trey Gowdy speaks on the issue and more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INORrmpmI5E

I can believe the rumored quote by McCain. This is why I detest him.

[JustRalph]

McCain saved the planned parenthood funding yesterday too....

He's now officially trolling

[MONEY]

John McCain is a democrat and has always been a democrat.
The only reason he runs as a republican is because he has to in order to win/keep his senate seat in Arizona.:ThmbDown:

[FantasticDan]

:cool:

[Tom]

Come along, Igor.
Yes, Master.

[incoming]

McCain's record of support for the VA has been despicable prove at link...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brandon-friedman/mccains-non-support-for-t_b_131046.html

[classhandicapper]

I've had an issue with McCain for a long time. He's an economic illiterate and he's also a neocon war monger. So to me, he's a total incompetent and scumbag.

What makes this vote so disastrous is not the political implications. It's the fact that we are still stuck with an Obama care system that requires all kinds of government bailouts of insurance companies to keep it afloat all while making a lot of people pay more for insurance options they like less than what they used to have.

How could anyone in their right mind be in favor of that?

We need a serious debate on how to fix this mess because we are on the path financial ruin and a major health care crisis. Yet all these pinheads are interested in is variations of more of the same.

Trump actually had a few good ideas (like expanding HCSAs, opening up the market across states, and other free market reforms). We should at least be doing the things that are obviously good ideas while arguing about the details of the tough stuff.

[Tom]

How could anyone in their right mind be in favor of that?

You Are using the phrase right mind to refer a US Senator?????
:pound::pound:

[Clocker]

Trump actually had a few good ideas (like expanding HCSAs, opening up the market across states, and other free market reforms). We should at least be doing the things that are obviously good ideas while arguing about the details of the tough stuff.

These are not good ideas in the current environment. Health care savings accounts are of no value to people to people who have no discretionary income left after paying for the necessities of life.

Allowing interstate sale of health insurance is meaningless. The last data I saw, a few months ago, 6 or more states already allow it. After years of allowing such competition, not one outside company has shown any interest in market entry into any of those states.

The reason for this is economic, not political. ObamaCare has changed the economics of individual health care insurance so that the only way to make money in a market is for the insurance company to have a good solid network of doctors, clinics, and hospitals. It's a chicken and egg situation. If you don't have a network in a market, you can't make any money selling insurance. And if you don't have a customer base, you can't establish a network of health care providers.

[classhandicapper]

These are not good ideas in the current environment. Health care savings accounts are of no value to people to people who have no discretionary income left after paying for the necessities of life.

Allowing interstate sale of health insurance is meaningless. The last data I saw, a few months ago, 6 or more states already allow it. After years of allowing such competition, not one outside company has shown any interest in market entry into any of those states.

The reason for this is economic, not political. ObamaCare has changed the economics of individual health care insurance so that the only way to make money in a market is for the insurance company to have a good solid network of doctors, clinics, and hospitals. It's a chicken and egg situation. If you don't have a network in a market, you can't make any money selling insurance. And if you don't have a customer base, you can't establish a network of health care providers.

No doubt HCSAs don't address the poor, but they are fabulous for everyone that has a job (which is most people). The money is deducted pre tax (which automatically cuts the costs of meeting your co pays and any deductibles you would have to pay for anyway). If you spend less than the amount you save, it accumulates tax deferred in an investment account. A reasonably healthy young individual should have a huge healthcare bankroll by the time he/she is ready to retire or accumulate more bills. I'm disgusted I didn't have one when I was young. The only reason I still work is the cost of insurance and the potential costs above that if I get sick between now and medicare.

I'm surprised to hear no large companies have crossed state lines, but I get your point.

[Clocker]

I'm surprised to hear no large companies have crossed state lines, but I get your point.

Most of the large companies are trying to get out of many of the bad markets they are in now, why would they want to enter iffy new ones?

[classhandicapper]

Most of the large companies are trying to get out of many of the bad markets they are in now, why would they want to enter iffy new ones?

As long as Obamacare exists, companies are losing money on the exchanges, and we don't bail them out, they will try to get out.

I was picturing a different environment where they could offer individual insurance and it would be a more competitive environment.

I bought individual insurance in NY for quite a few years before Obamacare. It was ridiculously expensive and I had very limited options in terms which companies offered it and what kind of plans were available. There should be a way for individuals to pool their insurance needs and shop across the country at many companies offering many types of plans. I could even imagine private groups organizing individuals to create purchasing power.