The End of horse racing

[Larry Hamilton]

Let your imagination run wild with this article:

http://www.local6.com/news/3623918/detail.html

[IRISHLADSTABLE]

Larry,
I'll take $5.00 to Win On Tabby in the First at Kitty Downs

Jimmy

[Dancer's Image]

Originally posted by Larry Hamilton
Let your imagination run wild with this article:

http://www.local6.com/news/3623918/detail.html

Larry,
Either the coffee hasn't kicked in yet this AM or I have no imagination, but I can't understand what an article on cloning kitties (or even horses for that matter) has to do with the end of racing! Either what you imagine to be cloning's effect on racing turns out to be the reality of the situation or not. But given those 4 possibilities, racing will still survive in one form or another.

ps. I obviously like your signature, sort of a paraphrase of Pascal's Wager, and I never met a wager I didn't like! LOL

[Jeff P]

All right, let's play along and play devil's advocate for a couple of minutes. Let's say I have a very nice horse and enough money and whatever it takes inside to decide to have hiim cloned. Now I have two very nice horses. And if I had something else inside, well, maybe nobody else knew that I had two very nice horses instead of the one they thought I had.

So I secretly train them both. Or try to. I've never seen the backside of a racetrack where word of something like THAT wouldn't get around. That's one hurdle.

Maybe I try something else. Suppose instead of a colt descended from Citation I find myself with a colt who actually IS Citation. The big question doesn't really change. It eventually still comes down to the same question that owners and trainers ask themselves every day. Can my Citation beat his Citation? Obviuosly, I think he can't. Why? Because I happen to know that my cloned Eddie Arcaro won't ride to instructions any more than yours will.

[kenwoodallpromos]

What is it about?

[JustRalph]

It would put a bunch of people out of the Breeding Business. Like the low level end of it. The owners/breeders with the money would hire a bunch of scientist types to take over their operations. Who knows what kind of twists and turns would result.......but I am sure the Law of Unintended consequences would be a factor...............

[ranchwest]

It'd be funny if a cloned horse couldn't run for squat.

[Larry Hamilton]

Hey, I want to be wrong on this issue badly....but it appears that Pandora's box has been opened.

[so.cal.fan]

Ranch writes:
"It'd be funny if a cloned horse couldn't run for squat".



Don't laugh, that could very likely be the case.
I have read that these cloned animals are defective......they could be like twins (horses).....very, very rarely can a twin run at all.
I guess they would have a new classification for a clone?
c (colt)
f (filly)
h (horse)
m(mare)
r (ridgling)
g (gelding)
cl. (clone)
t (twin)

I would use any r's t's or cl's as throwouts.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by so.cal.fan
Ranch writes:
"It'd be funny if a cloned horse couldn't run for squat".



Don't laugh, that could very likely be the case.
I have read that these cloned animals are defective......they could be like twins (horses).....very, very rarely can a twin run at all.
I guess they would have a new classification for a clone?
c (colt)
f (filly)
h (horse)
m(mare)
r (ridgling)
g (gelding)
cl. (clone)
t (twin)

I would use any r's t's or cl's as throwouts.

WOW SOCAL FAN!
I had a twin colt that I bought in Kentucky back in the early eighties,BOTH of these guys were running in Canada at the Old Greenwwod race track, One was a stakes winner and I had the other who won for 32000mdn.
Funny one was a bay and the other chestnut,One also went a distance and the other sprinted, Very odd indeed, They BOTH raced well into their 7yo year.

[so.cal.fan]

That is great Mc!
Glad you had good luck with a twin.....here in Calif. I've only seen one or two win over the years.....they don't do too well as a rule.
You got really lucky! Good for you!

[linrom1]

How does cloning affect the aging process and vice versa?

Cells begin ordinary cell division by first duplicating their DNA, arranged in chromosomes. When the chromosome number has doubled, the cells can divide, and each daughter cell will have the correct number of chromosomes. At the end of each chromosome is a structure called a telomere, and with each division, the telomeres shorten until they reach a critically short length, and the cells can divide no more. The cells then enter a period of senescence. This period of senescence typically occurs after a specific number of doublings and is thought to represent one component of the aging process.

This raises important issues in cloning. For example, when scientists tested the cells of Dolly, the first cloned sheep, they found that she had shorter telomeres than one would expect for a sheep of Dolly's age. This implied that she might actually be "older" in a cellular sense than her chronological age from birth. If a cloned animal actually reflected the age of the cell nucleus from which it was derived, then possibly the cells, tissues and organs from those animals might wear out relatively quickly and be less useful therapeutically. Dolly's death of lung disease in February 2003 at only six years of age—half the life span of a normal sheep—added more fuel to the debate about her chronological age.

A scientific team that successfully cloned several calves has attempted to address this issue. Researchers started with cells from a fetal calf, matured them in cell culture, then inserted them into cow egg cells without nuclei (and thus without their own DNA). Six calves were born, and they all had cells that were "younger" than those of uncloned calves of the same age. This was a remarkable accomplishment, because in the case of the calves, the genetic clock of aging was actually turned back, not merely slowed. These calves might well prove to live much longer lives than their conventionally conceived and calved cousins. Scientists speculate that they may live as much as two extra decades. Time will tell. It is not clear that simply altering the length of telomeres will in fact increase life span.

So, if you clone from an adult, you might get an aged horse.

[Hosshead]

Interesting Linrom. I wonder if animals that have had their clocks "turned back" (like those calves) will be screwed up in some other way. Nature's natural way seems to usually keep things in balance. Dolly's aging problem may have only been the tip of the iceberg. With so many combinations of the dna sequence, there are also a lot of ways to screw something up.

[so.cal.fan]

That is very interesting linrom1 !
Please keep us posted on this subject.

[Dancer's Image]

Originally posted by so.cal.fan
That is very interesting linrom1 !
Please keep us posted on this subject.

Interesting maybe to you, but indecipherable to most (including moi), and totally irrelevant to the subject, ie. the death of horseracing.

The average horseplayer/owner could care less how the horse was bred and/or cloned. If the horse can run, whether that horse is cloned or bred the old fashioned way, that horse will be raced and bet! The game will definitely change, possibly for the better by the way (no early retirement to stud service), but the game will not die because of the cloning issue. Now the government may kill it with their regulations or the industry may commit suicide by their incompetence, but cloning will not kill horseracing.

[hurrikane]

seems to me there is so much breading for speed a lot of short lived infirm horses have come about. And a ton of inbreading.

Maybe a clone line could help.

[Tom]

If someone figures out a way to clone my bankroll, let me know.:D

[Tom]

What happens if you clone a horse and he is entered in a race with his clone at a later date? Would that be an entry? :confused:

[Dave Schwartz]

In an industry that does not even allow artificial insemination I doubt that cloning would be permissable. <G>


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

PS: Posting from beautiful downtown Cancun
PPS: Okay, so I admit it... I miss you guys.

[Maxspa]

Dave,
While downtown take Beth to dinner at Pericos. The food is good but the show is fantastic and different. Waiters and waitresses dance with loaded trays on their heads and there's more. It's worth the trip better than Carlos and Charlies and Senor Frog's. Enjoy Senor and Senorita Schwartz.
Maxspa

[Pace Cap'n]

Originally posted by Tom
If someone figures out a way to clone my bankroll, let me know.:D

Send it on down. I'll see what I can do.

[Hosshead]

I tried cloning my bankroll, but like Dolly the sheep, it ended up having a shorter lifespan.

[Dave Schwartz]

Max,

Thanks for teh advice. Wish we had it two days ago. <G>

And you other two guys are funny. Send it down... that's good.

Dave

[Tom]

Originally posted by Hosshead
I tried cloning my bankroll, but like Dolly the sheep, it ended up having a shorter lifespan.

You mean you got "fleeced?":D

[freeneasy]

Originally posted by Dancer's Image
Interesting maybe to you, but indecipherable to most (including moi), and totally irrelevant to the subject, ie. the death of horseracing.

The average horseplayer/owner could care less how the horse was bred and/or cloned. If the horse can run, whether that horse is cloned or bred the old fashioned way, that horse will be raced and bet! The game will definitely change, possibly for the better by the way (no early retirement to stud service), but the game will not die because of the cloning issue. Now the government may kill it with their regulations or the industry may commit suicide by their incompetence, but cloning will not kill horseracing.

you miss the point pal, cloning will kill the Heart of horseracing.
no ack ack's to ouuu at, no secratariat's to awww at, no wondering how john henery offsprings would have turned out, just a bunch of gobbledygoop thrown in a pot. the heart of horseracing begins in the breeding shed. take that away and you got test-tub racing. no fun

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by freeneasy
you miss the point pal, cloning will kill the Heart of horseracing.
no ack ack's to ouuu at, no secratariat's to awww at, no wondering how john henery offsprings would have turned out, just a bunch of gobbledygoop thrown in a pot. the heart of horseracing begins in the breeding shed. take that away and you got test-tub racing. no fun

I disagree. If it works out well.......more will do it. If it doesn't......breeders will go back to the old ways.

I am curious what you guys think of Artificial Insemination?

I am all for it. It would be easier on the Horses from what I read.

[Dancer's Image]

I disagree, Freeneasy, the heart of horseracing is gambling. Anything that adversely affects the gambling aspect could conceivably kill horseracing, but look at what we've endured so far, so the death of horseracing is by no means imminent.

Someone earlier made a good point, ie. the horseracing industry doesn't even allow AS, so why do you think they would allow cloning anyway? Horseracing has more to fear from its own inept management and from politicians trying to over regulate the industry than from cloning, AS, and breeding altogether.

[Skanoochies]

C`mon you guys, this is 2004. They put a guy on the moon in 1969. If you believe no horse has been artificially seminated to this day in horse racing, I call bullshit. I don`t care how many cameras and witnesses are present, there is always someone out there to outsmart the system. Christ highschool kids are coming up with programs to shut computers down around the world. Does the racing industry think this impossible or something? Dna testing in horse racing will be the next step in protecting us earthlings.:D

Skanoochies.:)

[Turf2Dirt]

Thoroughbreds aren't even allowed to be Artificailly Inseminated(unlike standardbreds), I don't think you have to worry about cloning for awhile.

[Skanoochies]

I`m sure its not allowed, but I`m also sure it`s not done aloud.:D

[freeneasy]

Originally posted by Dancer's Image
I disagree, Freeneasy, the heart of horseracing is gambling. Anything that adversely affects the gambling aspect could conceivably kill horseracing, but look at what we've endured so far, so the death of horseracing is by no means imminent.

Someone earlier made a good point, ie. the horseracing industry doesn't even allow AS, so why do you think they would allow cloning anyway? Horseracing has more to fear from its own inept management and from politicians trying to over regulate the industry than from cloning, AS, and breeding altogether.

i dont think thats quite so di. i think the heart of horse racing began as a form of honor and then began to digress into gamgling from there. charlie whittingham for instance, he was all about the heart and soul of racing. and to me thats what racing has always been about, heart and soul. the heart of an animal, the soul of a man and if'n you happen to find a well worth horse upon which to wadger then by all means let the games begin

[BetHorses!]

If my girlfriend has me cloned, is she cheating if she sees me behind my back? :)

[so.cal.fan]

No, BetHorses!
That's the beauty of it.....you can go to the track on the weekend instead of taking her to "garage sales" or shopping malls.....let your clone do all that "girly stuff"......LOL

[RXB]

Won't work. The clone will say "YOU go to the garage sale with her; I've got a good thing in the 8th at Monmouth."

After all, it is a clone...

[so.cal.fan]

Yep! You're right.....either that or he'd tell her to go by herself, he was going to the track with you......
Cloning won't work, at this time of our evolution........not in my lifetime.

[so.cal.fan]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5670247/

[freeneasy]

to funny