Navarro in a run-away or a mockery?

[onefast99]

Leading Trainers at Monmouth Park

Starting Date: 05/13/2017
Ending Date: 07/25/2017
NameStarts1st2nd3rdEarningsJorge Navarro 89391216$683,785Jason Servis 57161114$485,787Patrick B. McBurney 5614116$367,127Kelly J. Breen 471496$382,230Kathleen O'Connell 45969$158,252Jane Cibelli 31881$142,344Chuck Spina 41866$227,480Enrique Arroyo 23843$122,485Gregory D. Sacco 487310$174,812Chad C. Brown 25665$328,790Derek S. Ryan 38662$137,653

You be the judge, MP is his pot of gold!

[Afleet]

he just gets up earlier than the other guys:lol:

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Sadly enough, I dont even play it anymore really for this very reason.

[RunForTheRoses]

he just gets up earlier than the other guys:lol:

And his Hay Oats and Water are just better than everyone else.

I usually don't play there anymore although Sunday I did play and did fairly well even with Jorge. If you do play you have to find those spots where he won't fire and/or someone like J Willard Thompson steps up to the plate.

Saw Juan Serey is back in action too.

[Prioress Ply]

43.8% winners. That's not bad--not bad at all!

You're a steward or a track executive at Monmouth. You don't anything is wrong with this or suspect something?

[Afleet]

El Deal in race 8 Saturday at Saratoga, the AG Vanderbilt, previously trained by Francisco D'Angelo running 90-93 beyers in 1/2017-fast horse w/13 starts. Navarro gets him and in first race runs 101 beyer @4 1/2F-that would be a suspect number to me at CT. Next start at MTH 102 beyer at 6F in 1:08.2. He improved the horses beyers by over 10%. Not questionable at all.

[Afleet]

I will not have El deal on any of my tickets. So I will probably be tearing up my tickets;)

[Brogan]

Keep looking the other way Monmouth...until there is nothing left to not look at.

[onefast99]

Well guys it is official we have pulled our horses from MP. The main reason isn't Navarro it is incompetence by the racing office. We had a horse in today where there were only 8 runners(racing office said on Fridays they limit turf to 8 starters)4 of the horses were shipping in we were number 9 of 8. Per the racing office "we don't give any special considerations to those on grounds" REALLY? You just tell everyone if they race somewhere else you cant comeback to MP! If you do you could be fined especially if you go to Suffolk. See you later MP have a great meet!:bang:

[Afleet]

Well guys it is official we have pulled our horses from MP. The main reason isn't Navarro it is incompetence by the racing office. We had a horse in today where there were only 8 runners(racing office said on Fridays they limit turf to 8 starters)4 of the horses were shipping in we were number 9 of 8. Per the racing office "we don't give any special considerations to those on grounds" REALLY? You just tell everyone if they race somewhere else you cant comeback to MP! If you do you could be fined especially if you go to Suffolk. See you later MP have a great meet!:bang:

Group I'm in partnerships with left there years ago. They think B Kulina is totally incompetent and will never return.

[cj]

Well guys it is official we have pulled our horses from MP. The main reason isn't Navarro it is incompetence by the racing office. We had a horse in today where there were only 8 runners(racing office said on Fridays they limit turf to 8 starters)4 of the horses were shipping in we were number 9 of 8. Per the racing office "we don't give any special considerations to those on grounds" REALLY? You just tell everyone if they race somewhere else you cant comeback to MP! If you do you could be fined especially if you go to Suffolk. See you later MP have a great meet!:bang:

Do they limit to 8 because the rail is way out or something? Limiting the field size kind of ruins the benefit of running on turf...field size!

[alhattab]

Do they limit to 8 because the rail is way out or something? Limiting the field size kind of ruins the benefit of running on turf...field size!

When the rail is at 36 ft they limit to 8

[onefast99]

When the rail is at 36 ft they limit to 8

Per the racing office on Fridays it is 8 runners for the turf races. This Sunday is the 50th Haskell and it looks like a decent race. I'm sure the racing office would have liked to see Cloud Computing and Always Dreaming but the Haskell could see a double digit $ winner. The rest of the Stakes races are ok, nothing but shippers. Go figure!

[lamboguy]

Well guys it is official we have pulled our horses from MP. The main reason isn't Navarro it is incompetence by the racing office. We had a horse in today where there were only 8 runners(racing office said on Fridays they limit turf to 8 starters)4 of the horses were shipping in we were number 9 of 8. Per the racing office "we don't give any special considerations to those on grounds" REALLY? You just tell everyone if they race somewhere else you cant comeback to MP! If you do you could be fined especially if you go to Suffolk. See you later MP have a great meet!:bang:they are insane! they are paying Navarro $200 per start to ruin the beautiful place. i was thinking about driving down for the Haskell, you just gave me the clincher, i am staying home now after learning about the stupidity you are going through there.

i got tickets and a vip parking pass for anyone who happens to want to go there for the Haskell, i can xpress mail the tickets to you so that you get them Sunday Morning,

[woodtoo]

Whats up with Enrique Arroyo with a % 35 23 starts 8-4-3.

[onefast99]

they are insane! they are paying Navarro $200 per start to ruin the beautiful place. i was thinking about driving down for the Haskell, you just gave me the clincher, i am staying home now after learning about the stupidity you are going through there.

i got tickets and a vip parking pass for anyone who happens to want to go there for the Haskell, i can xpress mail the tickets to you so that you get them Sunday Morning,and to make matters worse the racing office called my trainer and asked us to go into a race for 5k with a 12,000 purse. I'm in at Parx 5/8ths on Monday 21,000 purse.

[Afleet]

I will not have El deal on any of my tickets. So I will probably be tearing up my tickets;)

I'm stubborn to a fault

[MonmouthParkJoe]

I worked in the racing office at Monmouth this summer before leaving for another position, so I know this well.


It was already mentioned here that based on the rail setting on the turf, they have to limit the number of starters in a race. When it is at 36 ft the turf sprints are limited to 8.

If the race is an allowance optional, allowance horses are preferred over those entering for the claim. This should be in the condition book.

There is no special consideration for horses stabled on the grounds and it is the "luck of the draw" for getting into the race. If you were outside the main body you would draw in if there was a scratch. Having worked in other racing offices in the country, I do not recall one that gives preference to horses stabled on the grounds.

As for hustling a horse into a race, they are trying to fill. The very point you stated about park with almost 100% the amount of purse money is the reason they are struggling. It is impossible to get horses in the race when you can run for double for the same condition elsewhere.

The racing office there is one of the best ive been in and are doing what they can with what they have. The director of racing/racing secretary is also one of the nicest people I have met anywhere.

Just trying to give some insight into what may have happened/what is fact.

[Afleet]

I worked in the racing office at Monmouth this summer before leaving for another position, so I know this well.


It was already mentioned here that based on the rail setting on the turf, they have to limit the number of starters in a race. When it is at 36 ft the turf sprints are limited to 8.

If the race is an allowance optional, allowance horses are preferred over those entering for the claim. This should be in the condition book.

There is no special consideration for horses stabled on the grounds and it is the "luck of the draw" for getting into the race. If you were outside the main body you would draw in if there was a scratch. Having worked in other racing offices in the country, I do not recall one that gives preference to horses stabled on the grounds.

As for hustling a horse into a race, they are trying to fill. The very point you stated about park with almost 100% the amount of purse money is the reason they are struggling. It is impossible to get horses in the race when you can run for double for the same condition elsewhere.

The racing office there is one of the best ive been in and are doing what they can with what they have. The director of racing/racing secretary is also one of the nicest people I have met anywhere.

Just trying to give some insight into what may have happened/what is fact.

Parx gives preferential to PA breds-they get in the draw before outsiders. Good policy even though I hate Parx, but I will have PA breds running in a few years, if all goes well

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Parx gives preferential to PA breds-they get in the draw before outsiders. Good policy even though I hate Parx, but I will have PA breds running in a few years, if all goes well

I have seen state breds given preference as well. Did not see it that much as there aren't a lot of j breds left. I think it is a good policy too, but simply saying you are stabled on the grounds and should be given preference is a bit much

[Mulerider]

Navarro's Sharp Azteca won the G3 Monmouth Cup today, setting a new track record for 1 1/16. I saw Sharp Azteca last August when he finished 2nd to Texas Chrome in the LAD Super Derby Prelude. He's apparently improved in the last year.

[Afleet]

Navarro's Sharp Azteca won the G3 Monmouth Cup today, setting a new track record for 1 1/16. I saw Sharp Azteca last August when he finished 2nd to Texas Chrome in the LAD Super Derby Prelude. He's apparently improved in the last year.

He will be one of the favorites for the BC mile w/Mor Spirit

[onefast99]

I have seen state breds given preference as well. Did not see it that much as there aren't a lot of j breds left. I think it is a good policy too, but simply saying you are stabled on the grounds and should be given preference is a bit much

Parx has the one month a year when they give preference to the horses on grounds, the purses for that month equal or beat Saratoga. They give preference to the Pa breds as well all year. MP is struggling and it was evident from yesterdays card the majority of horses in the stakes races were shippers. But on the other hand if you want to ship out you may be fined or if you go to Suffolk you will not be allowed back in. My race was an 8 horse field, oh yeah Drazins horse got in as well. MP needs to do the right thing, I am stabled here been here 15 years and now wont be racing there based on how they want to play with the rail to limit field size? Tell me where that makes any sense, seeing you are an ex racing official who wants to see the track survive.

[Mulerider]

He will be one of the favorites for the BC mile w/Mor Spirit

He earned a 110 BSF yesterday.

Mule

[Afleet]

8/5 MNR Race 3

Mia torri: 2nd in the CTA Oaks w/78 beyer, 9/17/2016. Next race 10/23/16 @PArx $79k allowance 3rd w/a 70 beyer while being trained by Michael Reavis. Horse never out of the money w/Reavis. Goes to Navarro 1st race for new trainer 12/9/16 @GP 1st by 5 lengths w/a 87 beyer. Next start wins the Sunshine Millions distaff sprint w/a 91 beyer on 1/21/2017.

Horses improve from age 3 to 4 all the time, but it is usually after a layoff, growth spurt, etc.

Question: what was Reavis doing wrong?

[Prioress Ply]

Jorge fixed his teeth. That's what the "Magic Man" Jeff Mullins used to attribute it to.

[onefast99]

Jorge fixed his teeth. That's what the "Magic Man" Jeff Mullins used to attribute it to.
Eventually he will fall from grace...Guerrero did. But until then he will win at a 50% clip while his charges run beyers that are 10-40% higher than their previous trainer.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Parx has the one month a year when they give preference to the horses on grounds, the purses for that month equal or beat Saratoga. They give preference to the Pa breds as well all year. MP is struggling and it was evident from yesterdays card the majority of horses in the stakes races were shippers. But on the other hand if you want to ship out you may be fined or if you go to Suffolk you will not be allowed back in. My race was an 8 horse field, oh yeah Drazins horse got in as well. MP needs to do the right thing, I am stabled here been here 15 years and now wont be racing there based on how they want to play with the rail to limit field size? Tell me where that makes any sense, seeing you are an ex racing official who wants to see the track survive.

So Parx gives preference to horses on THEIR grounds. Those are THEIR house rules. As I said, in offices I have been in that hasn't been the case.

At MP, you get free stalls correct? As well as having ALL workmen's comp paid for by the track. It is that way because it is mandated by state law. Does Parx pay for workmen's comp? The cost is over 7 figures a year, so yes if I was paying that you bet your ass I expect you to participate in the program.

Trying to compare purse structure at Parx to MP is like comparing apples to coffee mugs. Same can be said for any other track with casino subsidies. MP struggles as a direct result of the lower purses and subsequent field size with the shortened race week. Suffolk targets the same exact type of horses/conditions MP offers yet has no stabling area so where do you think they are coming from?

If you, as an owner, feel that there is some conspiracy that Drazin's horse got in, then perhaps you should be there for the draw and see it take place. The "tinkering" with the rail setting to "purposely" limit field size has been going on for a long time now. Other tracks have similar issues based on their configuration. In your 15 years, you should have seen this, no?

MP does the right thing, and has been. It is limited in what it can do. The director of racing/racing secretary will hear any issue you have. So feel free to reach out to him versus on this message board with any issues.

[castaway01]

So Parx gives preference to horses on THEIR grounds. Those are THEIR house rules. As I said, in offices I have been in that hasn't been the case.

At MP, you get free stalls correct? As well as having ALL workmen's comp paid for by the track. It is that way because it is mandated by state law. Does Parx pay for workmen's comp? The cost is over 7 figures a year, so yes if I was paying that you bet your ass I expect you to participate in the program.

Trying to compare purse structure at Parx to MP is like comparing apples to coffee mugs. Same can be said for any other track with casino subsidies. MP struggles as a direct result of the lower purses and subsequent field size with the shortened race week. Suffolk targets the same exact type of horses/conditions MP offers yet has no stabling area so where do you think they are coming from?

If you, as an owner, feel that there is some conspiracy that Drazin's horse got in, then perhaps you should be there for the draw and see it take place. The "tinkering" with the rail setting to "purposely" limit field size has been going on for a long time now. Other tracks have similar issues based on their configuration. In your 15 years, you should have seen this, no?

MP does the right thing, and has been. It is limited in what it can do. The director of racing/racing secretary will hear any issue you have. So feel free to reach out to him versus on this message board with any issues.

I appreciate your posts MP Joe. I know that a lot of the issues that Monmouth is facing are out of their hands. You're got no support from the state and competition with vast financial resources. As with everything, there are things that could be done better, but anyone who thinks Monmouth was somehow "mismanaged" but Parx wasn't isn't looking at that big casino building on the Parx grounds.

[onefast99]

So Parx gives preference to horses on THEIR grounds. Those are THEIR house rules. As I said, in offices I have been in that hasn't been the case.

At MP, you get free stalls correct? As well as having ALL workmen's comp paid for by the track. It is that way because it is mandated by state law. Does Parx pay for workmen's comp? The cost is over 7 figures a year, so yes if I was paying that you bet your ass I expect you to participate in the program.

Trying to compare purse structure at Parx to MP is like comparing apples to coffee mugs. Same can be said for any other track with casino subsidies. MP struggles as a direct result of the lower purses and subsequent field size with the shortened race week. Suffolk targets the same exact type of horses/conditions MP offers yet has no stabling area so where do you think they are coming from?

If you, as an owner, feel that there is some conspiracy that Drazin's horse got in, then perhaps you should be there for the draw and see it take place. The "tinkering" with the rail setting to "purposely" limit field size has been going on for a long time now. Other tracks have similar issues based on their configuration. In your 15 years, you should have seen this, no?

MP does the right thing, and has been. It is limited in what it can do. The director of racing/racing secretary will hear any issue you have. So feel free to reach out to him versus on this message board with any issues.I have spoken to the racing office on many occasions in the past 15 years and everyone there is very nice. I am friendly with the former RS Michael Dempsey. Please don't compare the two tracks either as Parx towers over MP purse wise, so many of the horseman can pay the workmans comp. Pa also pays the breeders awards how is MP doing with that? Please don't ever tell me not to post my issues on this forum, thank you.

[onefast99]

I appreciate your posts MP Joe. I know that a lot of the issues that Monmouth is facing are out of their hands. You're got no support from the state and competition with vast financial resources. As with everything, there are things that could be done better, but anyone who thinks Monmouth was somehow "mismanaged" but Parx wasn't isn't looking at that big casino building on the Parx grounds.So MP isn't looking for a revenue stream like the one Parx has to survive? We can only hope they get one because Christie threw NJ racing a curveball that Gural was able to crush while the MP group swung at and missed. Just look at the Golden parachute Jeff has if he doesn't take part in the casino that will eventually go into the Meadowlands...a check from the NJSEA for $139 mil.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

[/QUOTE]I have spoken to the racing office on many occasions in the past 15 years and everyone there is very nice. I am friendly with the former RS Michael Dempsey. Please don't compare the two tracks either as Parx towers over MP purse wise, so many of the horseman can pay the workmans comp. Pa also pays the breeders awards how is MP doing with that? Please don't ever tell me not to post my issues on this forum, thank you.[/QUOTE]


You are correct I am not comparing the two purse wise, because you cant. But think about it, Parx has the higher purses, so horsemen can pay workmens comp with it. Monmouth doesnt, and has to pay it on their own. At least you get some of the handle benefit from bigger purses with expected field size increase, ect.

It is all a slippery slope with the casinos subs, and with the state of PA raiding those funds and decoupling on the horizon, it wont last for long.

I also never said not to post your issues on here, I said to voice your concerns on your conspiracy theories to them versus on here. :D

Ok, I'm done with this.

[onefast99]

[/QUOTE]I have spoken to the racing office on many occasions in the past 15 years and everyone there is very nice. I am friendly with the former RS Michael Dempsey. Please don't compare the two tracks either as Parx towers over MP purse wise, so many of the horseman can pay the workmans comp. Pa also pays the breeders awards how is MP doing with that? Please don't ever tell me not to post my issues on this forum, thank you.


You are correct I am not comparing the two purse wise, because you cant. But think about it, Parx has the higher purses, so horsemen can pay workmens comp with it. Monmouth doesnt, and has to pay it on their own. At least you get some of the handle benefit from bigger purses with expected field size increase, ect.

It is all a slippery slope with the casinos subs, and with the state of PA raiding those funds and decoupling on the horizon, it wont last for long.

I also never said not to post your issues on here, I said to voice your concerns on your conspiracy theories to them versus on here. :D

Ok, I'm done with this.[/QUOTE]
We can only hope the next governor can help keep racing in NJ. I didnt notice Christie at the Haskell on Sunday maybe he was too busy beating up Cubs fans in Milwaukee...