Arrogate's Last Work

[menifee]

Anyone else not impressed by this work? He'll be 1-20, but coming out of the toughest race in his career and a layoff isn't this the time's he's most vulnerable?

http://www.xbtv.com/video/recent/arrogate-outside-worked-6-furlongs-in-111-00-at-santa-anita-park-on-july-15th-2017/


Interested in hearing others thoughts on the work.

[GMB@BP]

Anyone else not impressed by this work? He'll be 1-20, but coming out of the toughest race in his career and a layoff isn't this the time's he's most vulnerable?

http://www.xbtv.com/video/recent/arrogate-outside-worked-6-furlongs-in-111-00-at-santa-anita-park-on-july-15th-2017/


Interested in heraring others thoughts on the work.

Bafferts comments were a tad bit interesting...if he does enter Connected I will almost assuredly make a wager when the horse is 1/20. I dont expect to win but I thought the comments he made were a bit concerning.

[Spalding No!]

Anyone else not impressed by this work? He'll be 1-20, but coming out of the toughest race in his career and a layoff isn't this the time's he's most vulnerable?

http://www.xbtv.com/video/recent/arrogate-outside-worked-6-furlongs-in-111-00-at-santa-anita-park-on-july-15th-2017/


Interested in hearing others thoughts on the work.
Arrogate looked fine, it's Cat Burglar that was unimpressive. I'm pretty sure that was a 3yo claiming filly that he failed to get by in the stretch.

I would say the BC Classic was Arrogate's toughest race to date.

[menifee]

Anyone else not impressed by this work? He'll be 1-20, but coming out of the toughest race in his career and a layoff isn't this the time's he's most vulnerable?

http://www.xbtv.com/video/recent/arrogate-outside-worked-6-furlongs-in-111-00-at-santa-anita-park-on-july-15th-2017/


Interested in hearing others thoughts on the work.

I knew he was not right going into this race. That work was not good.

[Robert Fischer]

I knew he was not right going into this race. That work was not good.

You must have made a huge score.

[menifee]

You must have made a huge score.

Had the winner to place and show. First time I had a solid opinion and could make more money even if the horse I liked didn't finish first - lol! What a strange sport.

[GMB@BP]

I knew he was not right going into this race. That work was not good.

I had quoted a few Baffert words here and there, and as you pointed out with the work, well maybe more predicable than his 1/9 loss.

Still though, to run that bad, shocking.

[Tom]

:headbanger: Nice call.

[classhandicapper]

When a horse runs this poorly something is usually wrong with him.

The real problem is what does Baffert do next?

If they diagnose a problem, then he may just be done for the year. But if he comes out of the race OK or bled or something like that, he may still want to start from zero instead of going on from here and getting beat up in the Pacific Classic.

[GMB@BP]

When a horse runs this poorly something is usually wrong with him.

The real problem is what does Baffert do next?

If they diagnose a problem, then he may just be done for the year. But if he comes out of the race OK or bled or something like that, he may still want to start from zero instead of going on from here and getting beat up in the Pacific Classic.

all I know is that wasnt the same horse by 20 lengths, so either way my guess is that was his last race.

[Afleet]

Had the winner to place and show. First time I had a solid opinion and could make more money even if the horse I liked didn't finish first - lol! What a strange sport.

good job

[alhattab]

I knew he was not right going into this race. That work was not good.

Great call nice work!

[olddaddy]

Had the winner to place and show. First time I had a solid opinion and could make more money even if the horse I liked didn't finish first - lol! What a strange sport.

You thought it looked so bad that not only he would lose but run out? Arrogate places and the horse you picked wins and youd gotten basically squat. A score is a score.

[Dahoss9698]

You thought it looked so bad that not only he would lose but run out? Arrogate places and the horse you picked wins and youd gotten basically squat. A score is a score.

To be fair, the only real way to bet against him in that spot was to hope he'd be off the board. I can't see betting the winner to win at 7-1.

[olddaddy]

To be fair, the only real way to bet against him in that spot was to hope he'd be off the board. I can't see betting the winner to win at 7-1.


I agree but wouldnt you spread in a 5 horse field? Only one horse isnt going to pay off big and if its yours, you'd be sick.

[Man o' War]

Big congrats Menifee for questioning Arrogate’s works and putting your money where your mouth is.
I for one thought, well he’s Baffert and he probably knows what he’s doing. Obviously NOT!!
DRF…Baffert put the blame on himself for Arrogate’s performance, saying he hadn’t trained Arrogate aggressively enough. He also questioned his decision to not work Arrogate earlier in the week over Del Mar’s surface. “I thought I had done enough to get him through,” Baffert said. “I’m disappointed he didn’t run well.”
Sheesh, maybe Menifee should be Arrogate’s trainer…
Wasn’t it Mike Smith who said immediately after the Dubai race that Arrogate wasn’t even blowing hard as if he never even raced? Didn’t everyone in the know, claim Arrogate’s lung capacity and endurance was not ordinary? Now that I look back at his 1:11 1:25.3 1:12.3 works…yeah, those are a good enough works to get a Hopportunity as fit as can be, but an Arrogate? Who was sitting on the beach and drinking margaritas for 4 months, He really did need to get some hard works (for his kind) to get his abnormal respiratory system and speed in race mode again.
I distinctly remember NY racing writers questioning Lucien Lauren’s training methods after Secretariat lost the Wood. His answer “he doesn’t really need a lot of hard works” Maybe trainers misunderstand superhorses when they luckily inherit one and train them the same way they do as they would a normal Grade 1 horse. Obviously now they do need very hard works as it won’t affect them negatively like it would a normal horse. Maybe Secretariat wouldn’t have lost at all if he was under better handling.
This race does not diminish my view of Arrogate at this point, but the mishandling and these damned short careers nowadays surely won’t help enhance his legend either. Dylan is correct when he points this out all the time….

[menifee]

http://www.xbtv.com/video/workout/arrogate-worked-4-furlongs-in-47-20-at-del-mar-on-august-1st-2017-for-the-pacific-classic/

I thought this was a much better work than the one before the San Diego.

[Augenj]

Big congrats Menifee for questioning Arrogate’s works and putting your money where your mouth is.
I for one thought, well he’s Baffert and he probably knows what he’s doing. Obviously NOT!!
DRF…Baffert put the blame on himself for Arrogate’s performance, saying he hadn’t trained Arrogate aggressively enough. He also questioned his decision to not work Arrogate earlier in the week over Del Mar’s surface. “I thought I had done enough to get him through,” Baffert said. “I’m disappointed he didn’t run well.”
Sheesh, maybe Menifee should be Arrogate’s trainer…
Wasn’t it Mike Smith who said immediately after the Dubai race that Arrogate wasn’t even blowing hard as if he never even raced? Didn’t everyone in the know, claim Arrogate’s lung capacity and endurance was not ordinary? Now that I look back at his 1:11 1:25.3 1:12.3 works…yeah, those are a good enough works to get a Hopportunity as fit as can be, but an Arrogate? Who was sitting on the beach and drinking margaritas for 4 months, He really did need to get some hard works (for his kind) to get his abnormal respiratory system and speed in race mode again.
I distinctly remember NY racing writers questioning Lucien Lauren’s training methods after Secretariat lost the Wood. His answer “he doesn’t really need a lot of hard works” Maybe trainers misunderstand superhorses when they luckily inherit one and train them the same way they do as they would a normal Grade 1 horse. Obviously now they do need very hard works as it won’t affect them negatively like it would a normal horse. Maybe Secretariat wouldn’t have lost at all if he was under better handling.
This race does not diminish my view of Arrogate at this point, but the mishandling and these damned short careers nowadays surely won’t help enhance his legend either. Dylan is correct when he points this out all the time….
Good post and spot on about Arrogate. He was not fit to race. Seabiscuit would sometimes race every week. Do that today with dehydrated Lasix horses and they'd fall on their faces. Still, A race a month should at least be the norm. I remember in the 70's when the claimers raced every other week.

[GMB@BP]

http://www.xbtv.com/video/workout/arrogate-worked-4-furlongs-in-47-20-at-del-mar-on-august-1st-2017-for-the-pacific-classic/

I thought this was a much better work than the one before the San Diego.

and suddenly baffert is acting much more confident....the whole thing is weird. how this plays out is pretty fascinating.

[Fager Fan]

Good post and spot on about Arrogate. He was not fit to race. Seabiscuit would sometimes race every week. Do that today with dehydrated Lasix horses and they'd fall on their faces. Still, A race a month should at least be the norm. I remember in the 70's when the claimers raced every other week.

Do you think that really explains it? An unfit Arrogate should've made a race of it, just pooping out in the latter stages. That's what an unfit horse does. That's not what he did. There's more to his terrible performance than not being fit.

[Augenj]

Do you think that really explains it? An unfit Arrogate should've made a race of it, just pooping out in the latter stages. That's what an unfit horse does. That's not what he did. There's more to his terrible performance than not being fit.
You've got a point but I still feel that he wasn't prepared for this race.

[GMB@BP]

Do you think that really explains it? An unfit Arrogate should've made a race of it, just pooping out in the latter stages. That's what an unfit horse does. That's not what he did. There's more to his terrible performance than not being fit.

yea, no way a half in shape arrogate runs that poorly. it wasnt a conditioning issue.

[JustRalph]

Maybe he has War Emblem disease?

He has decided he doesn't want to run anymore....

Baffert flat out said that's what happen with WE

[cj]

Maybe he has War Emblem disease?

He has decided he doesn't want to run anymore....

Baffert flat out said that's what happen with WE

There was also something else War Emblem didn't want to do.

http://www.drf.com/news/champion-war-emblem-gelded-17

[jimmyb]

After Dubai, I remember Baffert saying Arrogate was off his feed.

I think same thing happened to Cigar. Never really the same after Dubai.

[GMB@BP]

After Dubai, I remember Baffert saying Arrogate was off his feed.

I think same thing happened to Cigar. Never really the same after Dubai.

yea, thought I mentioned that, he lost a bunch of weight and they had trouble getting back on.

[classhandicapper]

There was also something else War Emblem didn't want to do.

http://www.drf.com/news/champion-war-emblem-gelded-17

War Emblem is at Old Friends now. I saw him when I went to Keeneland earlier in the year. He's got a reputation as a very difficult horse to deal with.

[classhandicapper]

I have no special insight into whether Arrogate is going to bounce back or not, but I'm not buying that he was short last time. Baffert is one of the best layoff trainers there is when it comes to these graded stakes performers. I could see him sending the horses out a tad short on purpose hoping for a peak in the Pacific Classic and further misjudging the horse's conditioning slightly and watching him get beat, but there's no way he could be that off. IMO, something was bothering that horse.

[cj]

War Emblem is at Old Friends now. I saw him when I went to Keeneland earlier in the year. He's got a reputation as a very difficult horse to deal with.

I'm really hoping to get to visit him. He is a big part of what got me where I am today in horse racing.