Cubs gave up 4 great prospects for Quintana

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

Quintana has shown flashes, but never completed the picture. They better win this year.

I think it was a great deal for the chisox.

[thaskalos]

With the Dodgers featuring Kershaw, Wood, McCarthy and Hill...what the heck do the Cubs think they can accomplish with Quintana?

[ReplayRandall]

With the Dodgers featuring Kershaw, Wood, McCarthy and Hill...what the heck do the Cubs think they can accomplish with Quintana?

Don't worry about the Cubs, Joe Maddon will take care of everything...:lol:

[olddaddy]

With the Dodgers featuring Kershaw, Wood, McCarthy and Hill...what the heck do the Cubs think they can accomplish with Quintana?


If you are counting on these Dodger four to carry them through the playoffs, you will be very disappointed.

[thaskalos]

If you are counting on these Dodger four to carry them through the playoffs, you will be very disappointed.

Let's see now. The Dodgers have unquestionably the best starting pitching in all of baseball...they have the most dominating closer...and they score 5.1 runs per game, which is 4th in the entire league. And all this...while all the other high-scoring teams have serious pitching problems...which they can't possibly solve. So, you are right...how far in the playoffs can the Dodgers possibly go?

Who can keep the Dodgers out of the World Series this year? Do you realize that Alex Wood has been better than KERSHAW this year?

[mostpost]

I was :jump::jump: when I heard the Cubs had acquired Quintana. Combined with the return of Kyle Hendricks, this gives the Cubs a starting rotation of Jon Lester; Kyle Hendricks; Jose Quintana; Jake Arrietta and either John Lackey or Mike Montgomery in the fifth slot. Compare that to the rotation the last month of Lester, Arrieta, Lackey, Montgomery and Butler. Definitely an improvement.

In Eloi Jimenez the White Sox got a player who will help them big time a few years down the road. Dylan Cease is a pitcher with a major upside, but still a few years away.

With Heyward, Almora, Schwarber, and Happ ahead of him and Bryant, Contreras Baez and Zobrist capable of playing outfield, there was no room for Jimenez on the Cubs.

And Quintana is under contract through 2020 with a very reasonable contract.

[mostpost]

Quintana has shown flashes, but never completed the picture. They better win this year.

I think it was a great deal for the chisox.
It could be a great deal for the Chisox in three or four years.

It's a great deal for the Cubs now. You remember the Cubs, right? They're the team that is having a terrible year, but would still be three games ahead of the Mets if they were in the same division.

[thaskalos]

I was :jump::jump: when I heard the Cubs had acquired Quintana. Combined with the return of Kyle Hendricks, this gives the Cubs a starting rotation of Jon Lester; Kyle Hendricks; Jose Quintana; Jake Arrietta and either John Lackey or Mike Montgomery in the fifth slot. Compare that to the rotation the last month of Lester, Arrieta, Lackey, Montgomery and Butler. Definitely an improvement.

In Eloi Jimenez the White Sox got a player who will help them big time a few years down the road. Dylan Cease is a pitcher with a major upside, but still a few years away.

With Heyward, Almora, Schwarber, and Happ ahead of him and Bryant, Contreras Baez and Zobrist capable of playing outfield, there was no room for Jimenez on the Cubs.

And Quintana is under contract through 2020 with a very reasonable contract.

I am a Cub fan, but their starting pitching rotation doesn't scare anyone...and they aren't hitting the ball. As we say in Wrigleyville..."Wait 'til next year".

[olddaddy]

Let's see now. The Dodgers have unquestionably the best starting pitching in all of baseball...they have the most dominating closer...and they score 5.1 runs per game, which is 4th in the entire league. And all this...while all the other high-scoring teams have serious pitching problems...which they can't possibly solve. So, you are right...how far in the playoffs can the Dodgers possibly go?

Who can keep the Dodgers out of the World Series this year? Do you realize that Alex Wood has been better than KERSHAW this year?


Dont count on McCarthy or Hill. It will be tough to get through the Nats with 2 starters. And dont count out your cubbies. If the cubbie four of lester, arrieta, hendricks and now quintana are all right, Ill take that four over the dodger four every day of the week and twice on sunday.

[thaskalos]

Dont count on McCarthy or Hill. It will be tough to get through the Nats with 2 starters. And dont count out your cubbies. If the cubbie four of lester, arrieta, hendricks and now quintana are all right, Ill take that four over the dodger four every day of the week and twice on sunday.

Kershaw, Wood, McCarthy and Hill are a HUGE favorite over Lester, Arrieta, Hendricks and Quintana. And this is coming from a big Cub fan.

PS...

The Dodger four are also a sizable favorite against Scherzer, Strasburg, Gonzalez and Roark (or Ross).

[olddaddy]

Kershaw, Wood, McCarthy and Hill are a HUGE favorite over Lester, Arrieta, Hendricks and Quintana. And this is coming from a big Cub fan.

PS...

The Dodger four are also a sizable favorite against Scherzer, Strasburg, Gonzalez and Roarke.


Do you realize Rich Hill is 37 and has only pitched more than 100 innings twice in a season? And that was 195 innings 10 years ago and 110 last year.

McCarthy who is now 34 is constantly hurt and on the DL.


The Dodgers have two legit starters, your cubbies and nats have four. Maybe the nats have 3 1/2.

[kingfin66]

Let's see now. The Dodgers have unquestionably the best starting pitching in all of baseball...they have the most dominating closer...and they score 5.1 runs per game, which is 4th in the entire league. And all this...while all the other high-scoring teams have serious pitching problems...which they can't possibly solve. So, you are right...how far in the playoffs can the Dodgers possibly go?

Who can keep the Dodgers out of the World Series this year? Do you realize that Alex Wood has been better than KERSHAW this year?

Usually it's Kershaw who keep the Dodgers out of the World Series. He gets them to the playoffs then falls off the cliff.

[thaskalos]

Do you realize Rich Hill is 37 and has only pitched more than 100 innings twice in a season? And that was 195 innings 10 years ago and 110 last year.

McCarthy who is now 34 is constantly hurt and on the DL.


The Dodgers have two legit starters, your cubbies and nats have four. Maybe the nats have 3 1/2.

You are not being fair to Kenta Maeda...IMO. He is a better 4th starter than you can find on any other team out there. If McCarthy or Hill go down...then Maeda can fill the 4th spot quite nicely...IMO. The Cubs may indeed have 4 "legitimate" starters, but they've all been decidedly unimpressive this year. And their offense has been asleep all year.

And, don't forget...Hill's problems are blister-related, not arm-related...and he was very impressive in his last couple starts.

When you hit like the Dodgers do...you can overcome a soft spot in your starting rotation. When you hit like the Cubs are hitting this year...then you are in trouble, because your pitching obviously can't carry the load.

And the Nats have obvious relief-pitching concerns.

[thaskalos]

Usually it's Kershaw who keep the Dodgers out of the World Series. He gets them to the playoffs then falls off the cliff.

As a betting man...I am willing to back Kershaw one more time. And, if I am Dave Roberts when facing Washington in the playoffs...I open with WOOD against Scherzer...and pitch Kershaw in the second game against Strasburg. Wood is having a better year than Kershaw up 'til now...and, being placed second might help in focusing Kershaw's "concentration" on the job at hand. :)

[Valuist]

Quintana has shown flashes, but never completed the picture. They better win this year.

I think it was a great deal for the chisox.

I think you have this ass-backwards. Quintana has shown quite a bit. ERA of 3.51 or lower 4 straight years before this year, and playing for a bad team. One who's had some real weak defenses behind him. The Cubs defense, while not nearly as good as last year's historically good defense, is still far superior to the one on the South Side. The NL Central teams aren't familiar with him. And if the Cubs win the Central and advance to the playoffs, who are the likely opponents? Washington and the Dodgers, BOTH of whom have left handed heavy lineups,

The Cubs basically gave up one big time prospect in Jimenez, a possible good arm in Cease, and two low A league players. As for Jimenez, he's hitting .271 with a slugging % of .490. OK numbers, but that's at High A. We have no idea if he can hit MLB pitching.

[olddaddy]

You are not being fair to Kenta Maeda...IMO. He is a better 4th starter than you can find on any other team out there. If McCarthy or Hill go down...then Maeda can fill the 4th spot quite nicely...IMO. The Cubs may indeed have 4 "legitimate" starters, but they've all been decidedly unimpressive this year. And their offense has been asleep all year.

And, don't forget...Hill's problems are blister-related, not arm-related...and he was very impressive in his last couple starts.

When you hit like the Dodgers do...you can overcome a soft spot in your starting rotation. When you hit like the Cubs are hitting this year...then you are in trouble, because your pitching obviously can't carry the load.

And the Nats have obvious relief-pitching concerns.


Pitching is what wins in the playoffs. Im not saying the Dodgers cant win but dont discount the nats or your cubbies. If nothing is wrong with Lester and hendricks comes back to form the cubbies staff could become dominate with quintana. The cubbies are too deep to disappear for a whole year hitting wise. The nats will find relief help in the next few weeks. This is not going to be a Dodger run away year. And stop being the typical ehore cub fan, they are loaded and can turn it around at any time.

[thaskalos]

Pitching is what wins in the playoffs. Im not saying the Dodgers cant win but dont discount the nats or your cubbies. If nothing is wrong with Lester and hendricks comes back to form the cubbies staff could become dominate with quintana. The cubbies are too deep to disappear for a whole year hitting wise. The nats will find relief help in the next few weeks. This is not going to be a Dodger run away year. And stop being the typical ehore cub fan, they are loaded and can turn it around at any time.

When you are loaded with talent...being sub-500 after 88 games isn't a "fluke"...it's an EMBARRASSMENT. The Cubs have declined drastically in every facet of the game, with the exception of relief pitching. I may be a Cub fan...but I ain't blind. This isn't something that the team can just "wake up" from...IMO.

[mostpost]

:puke:Dont count on McCarthy or Hill. It will be tough to get through the Nats with 2 starters. And dont count out your cubbies. If the cubbie four of lester, arrieta, hendricks and now quintana are all right, Ill take that four over the dodger four every day of the week and twice on sunday.

Excellent choice although this years records do not show it. Career wise, the Cubs four have thirty five more wins and 22 fewer losses than the Dodger four in ten less player-seasons. The only Dodger I would trade even up for one of the Cubs pitchers is Kershaw. Of course the Dodgers would never do that.

I am not convinced Alex Wood is legit. In his previous four seasons he was above 500 only once.

BTW: They no longer play double headers on Sunday.

[olddaddy]

When you are loaded with talent...being sub-500 after 88 games isn't a "fluke"...it's an EMBARRASSMENT. The Cubs have declined drastically in every facet of the game, with the exception of relief pitching. I may be a Cub fan...but I ain't blind. This isn't something that the team can just "wake up" from...IMO.


I dont know how long you have followed baseball in your city but in 1983 there was a loaded team whose record was 40-38 the game after the All Star break. They finished the season with 99 wins. This stuff happens.

[thaskalos]

:puke:

Excellent choice although this years records do not show it. Career wise, the Cubs four have thirty five more wins and 22 fewer losses than the Dodger four in ten less player-seasons. The only Dodger I would trade even up for one of the Cubs pitchers is Kershaw. Of course the Dodgers would never do that.

I am not convinced Alex Wood is legit. In his previous four seasons he was above 500 only once.

BTW: They no longer play double headers on Sunday.

You honestly wouldn't trade John Lackey for Alex Wood?

[thaskalos]

I dont know how long you have followed baseball in your city but in 1983 there was a loaded team whose record was 40-38 the game after the All Star break. They finished the season with 99 wins. This stuff happens.

I've followed Cubs baseball for longer than I care to admit...and I'd love to see the Cubs rally and take it all again. But I make that scenario 25-1 against...generously speaking.

[olddaddy]

I've followed Cubs baseball for longer than I care to admit...and I'd love to see the Cubs rally and take it all again. But I make that scenario 25-1 against...generously speaking.


You cub fans have to finally put it behind you. The goats, blacks cats etc are all gone.

[rastajenk]

All they have to do is catch the Brewers; that could happen in a couple of head-to-head series. That shouldn't be all that tough.

[Valuist]

You are not being fair to Kenta Maeda...IMO. He is a better 4th starter than you can find on any other team out there. If McCarthy or Hill go down...then Maeda can fill the 4th spot quite nicely...IMO. The Cubs may indeed have 4 "legitimate" starters, but they've all been decidedly unimpressive this year. And their offense has been asleep all year.

And, don't forget...Hill's problems are blister-related, not arm-related...and he was very impressive in his last couple starts.

When you hit like the Dodgers do...you can overcome a soft spot in your starting rotation. When you hit like the Cubs are hitting this year...then you are in trouble, because your pitching obviously can't carry the load.

And the Nats have obvious relief-pitching concerns.

Hendricks is now the Cubs # 4. I would take him over Maeda, who has spent both years of his career in a very pitcher friendly park.

Yes, Kershaw is the best, and Alex Wood is a serious Cy Young Award candidate this year, but Rich Hill cannot be trusted to provide any amount of innings for a season. He does have a great breaking pitch, but just can't stay on the field.

[Valuist]

Lackey is brutal. He should be DFA'd.

[olddaddy]

Lackey is brutal. He should be DFA'd.


Very doable now with Quintana.

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

Let's see now. The Dodgers have unquestionably the best starting pitching in all of baseball...they have the most dominating closer...and they score 5.1 runs per game, which is 4th in the entire league. And all this...while all the other high-scoring teams have serious pitching problems...which they can't possibly solve. So, you are right...how far in the playoffs can the Dodgers possibly go?

Who can keep the Dodgers out of the World Series this year? Do you realize that Alex Wood has been better than KERSHAW this year?

Sounds like the '54 Indians. How'd they do in the World Series that year?

The Nats have little chance of beating them in the NL unless they can find TWO stud relievers. Herrera is probably off the market since KC closed the gap. Actually Addison Reed might be their best pickup assuming the Mets don't catch fire the next two weeks.

Mets should be able to get some good prospects for Bruce. Of course, not as good as the Cubs gave up for a middle of the road starter. :lol:

[olddaddy]

The Nats have little chance of beating them in the NL unless they can find TWO stud relievers. Herrera is probably off the market since KC closed the gap. Actually Addison Reed might be their best pickup assuming the Mets don't catch fire the next two weeks.




Not a stud but Robertson sure beats Reed.

[Valuist]

Very doable now with Quintana.

He will probably share 5th starter duties with Montgomery and Butler. But he does have post-season experience. Maybe he could be used situationally against a few RH hitters out of the bullpen.

[Valuist]

Mets should be able to get some good prospects for Bruce. Of course, not as good as the Cubs gave up for a middle of the road starter. :lol:

:lol: The LOL is AT you, not with you. "Middle of the road starter"? What do you look at, wins? A metric that is more about your teammates than actual performance. In terms of pitcher WAR since the start of 2013, where does Quintana rank? SEVENTH. He trails only Kershaw, Scherzer, Sale, Kluber, Price and Lester. Some of the big names he's ahead of? Bumgarner, Greinke, Strasburg, Arrieta, Verlander, Wainwright and Hamels.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2017&month=0&season1=2013&ind=0&team=&rost=&age=&filter=&players=

[olddaddy]

He will probably share 5th starter duties with Montgomery and Butler. But he does have post-season experience. Maybe he could be used situationally against a few RH hitters out of the bullpen.

Down 5 1/2 its real tough to carry a stiff RHed situational pitcher.

[thaskalos]

All they have to do is catch the Brewers; that could happen in a couple of head-to-head series. That shouldn't be all that tough.

Are the Cardinals and the Pirates out of it?

[olddaddy]

:lol: The LOL is AT you, not with you. "Middle of the road starter"? What do you look at, wins? A metric that is more about your teammates than actual performance. In terms of pitcher WAR since the start of 2013, where does Quintana rank? SEVENTH. He trails only Kershaw, Scherzer, Sale, Kluber, Price and Lester. Some of the big names he's ahead of? Bumgarner, Greinke, Strasburg, Arrieta, Verlander, Wainwright and Hamels.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2017&month=0&season1=2013&ind=0&team=&rost=&age=&filter=&players=


Yup wins means nothing and how some think the dodgers starters are a HUGE favorite over the cubbies, shows me how little some understand the game of baseball.

[mostpost]

You honestly wouldn't trade John Lackey for Alex Wood?
I was trying to figure out why I would make such a stupid statement. Then I realized I had not been clear. I was referring to the four Cub pitchers we had been discussing here, not the entire staff. I would not trade Lester, Arrieta, Quintana or Hendricks for any Dodger starter except Kershaw.

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

:lol: The LOL is AT you, not with you. "Middle of the road starter"? What do you look at, wins? A metric that is more about your teammates than actual performance. In terms of pitcher WAR since the start of 2013, where does Quintana rank? SEVENTH. He trails only Kershaw, Scherzer, Sale, Kluber, Price and Lester. Some of the big names he's ahead of? Bumgarner, Greinke, Strasburg, Arrieta, Verlander, Wainwright and Hamels.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2017&month=0&season1=2013&ind=0&team=&rost=&age=&filter=&players=

Thanks for proving how worthless those statistics are. There are literally dozens of pitchers below him on that chart who are better than Quintana this year.

Dozens!

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

I was trying to figure out why I would make such a stupid statement. Then I realized I had not been clear. I was referring to the four Cub pitchers we had been discussing here, not the entire staff. I would not trade Lester, Arrieta, Quintana or Hendricks for any Dodger starter except Kershaw.

Talk about a totally blind fan. But I guess there's nothing wrong with that. The Cub starters are pretty pathetic this year, and Quintana does not make them any better. The Cubs starters are 8th best in the NL -- which also makes them 8th worst.

But true to form, Quintana might pitch a half dozen good games the second half. Its the other 9 or 10 that will be terrible.

The Mets gave up a stud pitcher in Fullmer when they got Cespedes. But no matter how good Fullmer gets, the Mets made a great trade because without Cespedes they never win the pennant in 2015 nor get to the playoffs in 2016.

If the Cubs make the playoffs this year it will have nothing to do with the middle of the road pitcher they just picked up. It will have everything to do with the weak competition in their division.

The Brewers need two things to stay the course. Villar needs to regain 2016 form and Jimmy Nelson needs to stay the course.

[kingfin66]

As a betting man...I am willing to back Kershaw one more time. And, if I am Dave Roberts when facing Washington in the playoffs...I open with WOOD against Scherzer...and pitch Kershaw in the second game against Strasburg. Wood is having a better year than Kershaw up 'til now...and, being placed second might help in focusing Kershaw's "concentration" on the job at hand. :)

That is a helluva 1/2 punch.

[HoofedInTheChest]

Thanks for proving how worthless those statistics are.

I'm all ears, enlighten us.

[kingfin66]

I dont know how long you have followed baseball in your city but in 1983 there was a loaded team whose record was 40-38 the game after the All Star break. They finished the season with 99 wins. This stuff happens.

This doesn't sound quite right? Wasn't that 1984 when they lost to San Diego? That was the year they acquired Rick Sutcliffe and he went on one of the amazing pitching runs in MLB history. I will have to check that out, but I think they were sub-500 in the years before and after.

[kingfin66]

Are the Cardinals and the Pirates out of it?

Realistically, I think you have so say that they are. It is true that neither team is very far behind the Cubs. With the wild card teams so solid in the NL, teams really have to consider if they can win the division. Of the teams behind Milwaukee, I believe that the Cubs are the only team with a real shot. It would be foolish for either St. Louis or Pittsburgh to mortgage their futures by overpaying for talent given the reality of their situation.

[olddaddy]

This doesn't sound quite right? Wasn't that 1984 when they lost to San Diego? That was the year they acquired Rick Sutcliffe and he went on one of the amazing pitching runs in MLB history. I will have to check that out, but I think they were sub-500 in the years before and after.


You are thinking about the wrong Chicago team.

[Valuist]

Thanks for proving how worthless those statistics are. There are literally dozens of pitchers below him on that chart who are better than Quintana this year.

Dozens!

And how many of these "dozens superior" pitchers to Quintana were available?

And don't even mention Verlander. He's done.

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

I'm all ears, enlighten us.

You only had to read my next sentence. Then look at the list. Rather obvious.

Hope some of you played Quintana today in Draft Kings, today. I guessed he would be psyched for his first start. You can also expect a few more good efforts by the end of the season for this .500 pitcher.

[Valuist]

You only had to read my next sentence. Then look at the list. Rather obvious.

Hope some of you played Quintana today in Draft Kings, today. I guessed he would be psyched for his first start. You can also expect a few more good efforts by the end of the season for this .500 pitcher.

Pitchers that were available: Quintana, Gray, Verlander, Straily, probably Cueto and Samardijza. Quintana, with team control over the contract, is preferred over any of those guys. Before this year, I would've said Cueto, but he's had a velocity drop. Verlander had a great year last year but has regressed to his 2014-15 form. Sonny Gray has had some shoulder issues.

You refer to him as "a .500 pitcher". Do you really use win/loss as a major criteria for judging starting pitchers? I didn't think anyone did that anymore. Are you aware Quintana had been pitching for a terrible team the past few years? Everyone knows W/L is too reliant on run support and bullpen.

I didn't play him on Draft Kings although I did bet the Cubs at minus 138 today. DK is the kiddy pool.

[headhawg]

You refer to him as "a .500 pitcher". Do you really use win/loss as a major criteria for judging starting pitchers? I didn't think anyone did that anymore. Are you aware Quintana had been pitching for a terrible team the past few years? Everyone knows W/L is too reliant on run support and bullpen.This. +1. I wish I could play poker with people here who think they know what they're talking about.

[olddaddy]

This. +1. I wish I could play poker with people here who think they know what they're talking about.

They would look at the 2010 A.L. Cy Young winner, King Felix and say this guy was barely .500 and was a average pitcher.

[kingfin66]

You are thinking about the wrong Chicago team.

Oh snap! That was very, very Northside Centric of me. Indeed it was the Chisox you were referring to.

[HoofedInTheChest]

You only had to read my next sentence. Then look at the list. Rather obvious.

Your reply is somewhat ambiguous, some context would be greatly appreciated.

[thaskalos]

You only had to read my next sentence. Then look at the list. Rather obvious.

Hope some of you played Quintana today in Draft Kings, today. I guessed he would be psyched for his first start. You can also expect a few more good efforts by the end of the season for this .500 pitcher.

So...poor Quintana was in a no-win situation in his first Cubs start. If he did good...then it was simply a case of a ".500 pitcher getting psyched-up for his first start". And if he did bad, then..."he is mediocre, and the Cubs made a big mistake in acquiring him".

Not fair...IMO.

[mostpost]

I am a Cub fan, but their starting pitching rotation doesn't scare anyone...and they aren't hitting the ball. As we say in Wrigleyville..."Wait 'til next year".
Or we could say "Wait 'til after the All Star Break. From five and one half games behind the Brew Crew after the All Star Game to one game behind today. And one game ahead of Milwaukee in the loss column. All the things they weren't doing before, they are doing now with a vengeance.

[HoofedInTheChest]

Or we could say "Wait 'til after the All Star Break. From five and one half games behind the Brew Crew after the All Star Game to one game behind today. And one game ahead of Milwaukee in the loss column. All the things they weren't doing before, they are doing now with a vengeance.
Not to mention you have 4 games in hand.

[HoofedInTheChest]

Well, hello, first place.

Cubs starting pitching since All-Star break (9 games):

2.41 ERA, 56.0 IP, 35 H, 52 K, 11 BB, 0.821 WHIP

Nobody has allowed more than 5 hits.


In two winning starts for the Cubs, here is Quintana’s stat line:

13 IP, 8 hits, 3 R, 2 BB, 19 K, ERA 2.08, WHIP 0.769

Those are top of the rotation numbers.

[HoofedInTheChest]

How tough is the remaining schedule for NL Central teams? Here’s how many remaining games each team is playing against teams with records above .500.

(example: 21 of the Cubs remaining 65 games are against teams with records above .500):

Cubs: 21 of 65 (32%)

Brewers: 30 of 61 (49%)

Pirates: 23 of 63 (37%)

Cardinals: 31 of 64 (48%)

Reds: 35 of 64 (55%)

[HoofedInTheChest]

https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/889534827036364800

[MutuelClerk]

Something tells me JV made his last start for the Tigers tonight. Hoping the Tigers eat some of the contract and get some prospects out of it. Seems like the Dodgers fit the scenario. Big market team, good farm system and Kate Upton will love LA.

[ElKabong]

The media here seems to think darvish will start one more game for the Rangers, then be dealt. If the price is right I hope it happens. He's a FA after the end of the season so anything we get is gravy.

Lucroy, Choo, Napoli are also rumored.

[Valuist]

Well, hello, first place.

Cubs starting pitching since All-Star break (9 games):

2.41 ERA, 56.0 IP, 35 H, 52 K, 11 BB, 0.821 WHIP

Nobody has allowed more than 5 hits.


In two winning starts for the Cubs, here is Quintana’s stat line:

13 IP, 8 hits, 3 R, 2 BB, 19 K, ERA 2.08, WHIP 0.769

Those are top of the rotation numbers.

Great points. They will wind the Central handily. The Wilson acquistion today is about the post season. You have to have a lockdown bullpen. The Dodgers do, Cleveland does, and Houston's is pretty good too. Washington did add two guys but they still have a ways to go.

But I think even the Cubs realize this year's Dodgers team is several lengths superior to the 2016 edition which lost in the NLCS.

[thaskalos]

Great points. They will wind the Central handily. The Wilson acquistion today is about the post season. You have to have a lockdown bullpen. The Dodgers do, Cleveland does, and Houston's is pretty good too. Washington did add two guys but they still have a ways to go.

But I think even the Cubs realize this year's Dodgers team is several lengths superior to the 2016 edition which lost in the NLCS.

If the Cubs played the Dodgers in a 7-game series NOW...what sort of outcome would you predict?

[thaskalos]

The Cubs have acquired catcher Alex Avila from Detroit. The person who traded Avila away from Detroit was Tigers GM Al Avila...who is Alex Avila's father. Business is business...:)

[Valuist]

If the Cubs played the Dodgers in a 7-game series NOW...what sort of outcome would you predict?

Dodgers in 6.

I'm guessing LAD would be about a minus 150 series favorite. Maybe -155.

The negative is they've had some talented teams the previous few years and wilted when the lights were bright. This year's team has so much talent, even they may not be able to choke it away.

[olddaddy]

The Cubs have acquired catcher Alex Avila from Detroit. The person who traded Avila away from Detroit was Tigers GM Al Avila...who is Alex Avila's father. Business is business...:)


What are you trying to say? I hope you are saying that fathers are there to always take care of their children. If not you really dont have a clue.

[thaskalos]

What are you trying to say? I hope you are saying that fathers are there to always take care of their children. If not you really dont have a clue.
You are right...I am clueless. I'd rather have my kid play for Detroit. :ThmbUp:

[olddaddy]

You are right...I am clueless. I'd rather have my kid play for Detroit. :ThmbUp:


Tell me what was your Business is Business comment all about?

[olddaddy]

If the Cubs played the Dodgers in a 7-game series NOW...what sort of outcome would you predict?

NOW? LAD gets swept. With the cubs starting 4 and the dodgers without kershaw, its easy as pie.

[thaskalos]

NOW? LAD gets swept. With the cubs starting 4 and the dodgers without kershaw, its easy as pie.

And I am the one who doesn't have a clue...

[olddaddy]

And I am the one who doesn't have a clue...


You are very good at wiggling out of comments you make , you must be a politician. And yes you have proven you really dont have much of a clue regarding baseball.

[HoofedInTheChest]

NOW? LAD gets swept. With the cubs starting 4 and the dodgers without kershaw, its easy as pie.
With the additions of Yu Darvish and Tony Watson, they appear to be all in. I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the Dodgers, they have a scary lineup that just got a whole lot deeper today.

I would be willing to wager that Kershaw will be back before the playoffs, mind you he did miss two and a half months with a herniated back last season.

I’m not big on Darvish, bit this seems like a win-win trade. Rangers get an MLB-ready cost-controlled option who does nothing but hit, plus huge upside with Davis and Alexy. Dodgers get an ace-level starter for the playoffs and an inside shot at re-signing Darvish if they so desire. Seems about even.

I’m with Valuist, i love the lineup but they always seem to blow it in the playoffs, they are the San Jose Sharks of baseball.

[olddaddy]

With the additions of Yu Darvish and Tony Watson, they appear to be all in. I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the Dodgers, they have a scary lineup that just got a whole lot deeper today.

I would be willing to wager that Kershaw will be back before the playoffs, mind you he did miss two and a half months with a herniated back last season.

I’m not big on Darvish, bit this seems like a win-win trade. Rangers get an MLB-ready cost-controlled option who does nothing but hit, plus huge upside with Davis and Alexy. Dodgers get an ace-level starter for the playoffs and an inside shot at re-signing Darvish if they so desire. Seems about even.

I’m with Valuist, i love the lineup but they always seem to blow it in the playoffs, they are the San Jose Sharks of baseball.


I never said LAD wouldnt compete with the cubbies in the playoffs. The question was how they would compete NOW. The cubs starters are at the top of their game NOW. The future? Too early to tell how it will all play out.

[HoofedInTheChest]

I never said LAD wouldnt compete with the cubbies in the playoffs. The question was how they would compete NOW. The cubs starters are at the top of their game NOW. The future? Too early to tell how it will all play out.
Good point.

[thaskalos]

You are very good at wiggling out of comments you make , you must be a politician. And yes you have proven you really dont have much of a clue regarding baseball.

Yes, I have no clue about baseball...and you are the baseball EXPERT. You were favoring the Cubs over the Dodgers even BEFORE the All-Star game...when Kershaw was still healthy, and the Cubs couldn't hit the ball worth a lick. And now you say that you are talking about how the Cubs would compete against the Dodgers "NOW". And I am the one who wiggles out of my prior comments?

Or were you predicting the Kershaw injury?

[thaskalos]

With the additions of Yu Darvish and Tony Watson, they appear to be all in. I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the Dodgers, they have a scary lineup that just got a whole lot deeper today.

I would be willing to wager that Kershaw will be back before the playoffs, mind you he did miss two and a half months with a herniated back last season.

I’m not big on Darvish, bit this seems like a win-win trade. Rangers get an MLB-ready cost-controlled option who does nothing but hit, plus huge upside with Davis and Alexy. Dodgers get an ace-level starter for the playoffs and an inside shot at re-signing Darvish if they so desire. Seems about even.

I’m with Valuist, i love the lineup but they always seem to blow it in the playoffs, they are the San Jose Sharks of baseball.

Dismiss the DODGERS? Aren't they the NL favorites for the WS?

[thaskalos]

I never said LAD wouldnt compete with the cubbies in the playoffs. The question was how they would compete NOW. The cubs starters are at the top of their game NOW. The future? Too early to tell how it will all play out.

How WOULD the Dodgers compete with the Cubs, NOW? They'd be SWEPT? Is that the "expert" opinion?

[thaskalos]

Tell me what was your Business is Business comment all about?

I put a smiley face at the end of that comment...NO? Doesn't that mean that I was only kidding?

[olddaddy]

Yes, I have no clue about baseball...and you are the baseball EXPERT. You were favoring the Cubs over the Dodgers even BEFORE the All-Star game...when Kershaw was still healthy, and the Cubs couldn't hit the ball worth a lick. And now you say that you are talking about how the Cubs would compete against the Dodgers "NOW". And I am the one who wiggles out of my prior comments?

Or were you predicting the Kershaw injury?


I predicted nothing, I just understand the game much better than you. If you understand the game you cant right off the the world champs after half a season, when they are in the worst division in baseball, which you did. Regarding Kershaw I never predicted but if you understand injuries for baseball players a back injury is usually a death sentence and kershaw has a real back issue.


Here are some of your previous comments

Kershaw, Wood, McCarthy and Hill are a HUGE favorite over Lester, Arrieta, Hendricks and Quintana.

With the Dodgers featuring Kershaw, Wood, McCarthy and Hill...what the heck do the Cubs think they can accomplish with Quintana?

I am a Cub fan, but their starting pitching rotation doesn't scare anyone...and they aren't hitting the ball. As we say in Wrigleyville..."Wait 'til next year".


I have read your comments for years and you are very knowledgeable in horse racing but baseball not so much.

Food for thought, I am not good at horse racing so I just sit back and try to soak in as much as I can from the people that are.

[Valuist]

Kershaw will be back long before the playoffs. ESPN cameras showed him throwing before last night's game. He wasn't on a mound, but he clearly wasn't just lobbing the ball, either.

[thaskalos]

I predicted nothing, I just understand the game much better than you. If you understand the game you cant right off the the world champs after half a season, when they are in the worst division in baseball, which you did. Regarding Kershaw I never predicted but if you understand injuries for baseball players a back injury is usually a death sentence and kershaw has a real back issue.


Here are some of your previous comments

Kershaw, Wood, McCarthy and Hill are a HUGE favorite over Lester, Arrieta, Hendricks and Quintana.

With the Dodgers featuring Kershaw, Wood, McCarthy and Hill...what the heck do the Cubs think they can accomplish with Quintana?

I am a Cub fan, but their starting pitching rotation doesn't scare anyone...and they aren't hitting the ball. As we say in Wrigleyville..."Wait 'til next year".


I have read your comments for years and you are very knowledgeable in horse racing but baseball not so much.

Food for thought, I am not good at horse racing so I just sit back and try to soak in as much as I can from the people that are.

You are right...HORSE RACING is my game. And I am more than willing to learn more about baseball than what I already know. But, when I hear you say that the Cubs would SWEEP the Dodgers if the WS were held now...I wonder if I shouldn't go to someone ELSE for my "baseball knowledge".

[olddaddy]

You are right...HORSE RACING is my game. And I am more than willing to learn more about baseball than what I already know. But, when I hear you say that the Cubs would SWEEP the Dodgers if the WS were held now...I wonder if I shouldn't go to someone ELSE for my "baseball knowledge".


Ill stand by my comment but realize that is as of today which is NOW. Baseball is a fluid, ever changing game, tomorrow things could be different.

[thaskalos]

Ill stand by my comment but realize that is as of today which is NOW. Baseball is a fluid, ever changing game, tomorrow things could be different.

And, by the same token, I made my Cubs critique at the All-Star break...when they were struggling in both the pitching AND the hitting departments. I know that you think PITCHING is what wins in the playoffs...but the Cubs had BY FAR the best pitching staff in the league last year...and yet, they still found themselves down 3 games to 1 in the WS.

My money says that they don't advance past the 1st round in the playoffs.

[olddaddy]

And, by the same token, I made my Cubs critique at the All-Star break...when they were struggling in both the pitching AND the hitting departments. I know that you think PITCHING is what wins in the playoffs...but the Cubs had BY FAR the best pitching staff in the league last year...and yet, they still found themselves down 3 games to 1 in the WS.

My money says that they don't advance past the 1st round in the playoffs.


Your critique at the break was quite silly considering the cubs were basically injury free and in the worst division in baseball.

Pitching is most important in the playoffs and a team wont win it all without good pitching but that also doesnt mean a team with the best pitching will win. Luck comes majorly into play also. If the wahoos werent decimated by injuries you cubbie fans would still be talking about bartman, goats and black cats.


Way to early to see how far the cubbies will go but making the playoffs is a sure thing and always was.

[thaskalos]

Your critique at the break was quite silly considering the cubs were basically injury free and in the worst division in baseball.

Pitching is most important in the playoffs and a team wont win it all without good pitching but that also doesnt mean a team with the best pitching will win. Luck comes majorly into play also. If the wahoos werent decimated by injuries you cubbie fans would still be talking about bartman, goats and black cats.


Way to early to see how far the cubbies will go but making the playoffs is a sure thing and always was.

My "silly critique" wasn't about the Cubs not making the playoffs. It was about them overcoming the Dodgers in the playoffs.

[olddaddy]

My "silly critique" wasn't about the Cubs not making the playoffs. It was about them overcoming the Dodgers in the playoffs.


I have honestly never heard anyone use the term "Wait until next year" at the all star break knowing a team will make the playoffs. So much can happen before the playoffs begin. And this is a team that may actually be better than last years team which the won the world series. As I said before, you are good, I mean very good at wiggling out of your comments.

[thaskalos]

I have honestly never heard anyone use the term "Wait until next year" at the all star break knowing a team will make the playoffs. So much can happen before the playoffs begin. And this is a team that may actually be better than last years team which the won the world series. As I said before, you are good, I mean very good at wiggling out of your comments.
I am not wiggling out of anything. During the entire conversation here, I've compared the Cubs only to the DODGERS. Why would I do that if I was supporting the idea that they wouldn't make the playoffs? Did I say even a WORD about Milwaukee...even though they were leading the division at the break?

Did YOU "wiggle" out of your comment that the Cubs would sweep the Dodgers NOW?

[olddaddy]

I am not wiggling out of anything. During the entire conversation here, I've compared the Cubs only to the DODGERS. Why would I do that if I was supporting the idea that they wouldn't make the playoffs? Did I say even a WORD about Milwaukee...even though they were leading the division at the break?

Did YOU "wiggle" out of your comment that the Cubs would sweep the Dodgers NOW?

As of today which is NOW, I see the cubs sweeping LAD.


I am a Cub fan, but their starting pitching rotation doesn't scare anyone...and they aren't hitting the ball. As we say in Wrigleyville..."Wait 'til next year".

When you are loaded with talent...being sub-500 after 88 games isn't a "fluke"...it's an EMBARRASSMENT. The Cubs have declined drastically in every facet of the game, with the exception of relief pitching. I may be a Cub fan...but I ain't blind. This isn't something that the team can just "wake up" from...IMO.

Are the Cardinals and the Pirates out of it?

Are these the type of comments that are stating that the cubs make the playoffs? They are in the order that you commented on them.

And I didnt forget your Avila Business is Business :) comment which you think was swept under the carpet.

[thaskalos]

As of today which is NOW, I see the cubs sweeping LAD.








Are these the type of comments that are stating that the cubs make the playoffs? They are in the order that you commented on them.

And I didnt forget your Avila Business is Business :) comment which you think was swept under the carpet.

I see my comments...which is the "silly" one? Where do I say that the Cubs won't make the playoffs? When the best team in baseball plays sub-.500 ball for over 80 games...it's nothing short of an EMBARRASSMENT. And when I asked if the Pirates and the Cards were "out of it", I implied that, given the Cubs poor play...they were still 'IN IT". Being "in it" doesn't mean WINNING it.

I only mentioned the Dodgers', because I considered them to be the Cubs' main stumbling block in the playoffs...otherwise, why would I bother talking about the Dodgers at ALL? Is it a silly argument to take Kershaw, Wood, Hill and McCarthy over Lester, Arrieta, Hendricks and Quintana...especially when you take the teams' HITTING into consideration?

I was kidding about the Avila trade...and the smiley face proves it. Is it often that you see a GM trade away his own son? Even you, in post #61, wrote that you "hoped I was saying that the fathers are there to take care of their children". You weren't sure what I meant THEN...but now you figured it all OUT?

[thaskalos]

As of today which is NOW, I see the cubs sweeping LAD.


This is a sillier comment than any that I've ever made in this thread...IMO. And I'd like to see someone disagree with me on this one.

[olddaddy]

I see my comments...which is the "silly" one? Where do I say that the Cubs won't make the playoffs? When the best team in baseball plays sub-.500 ball for over 80 games...it's nothing short of an EMBARRASSMENT. And when I asked if the Pirates and the Cards were "out of it", I implied that, given the Cubs poor play...they were still 'IN IT". Being "in it" doesn't mean WINNING it.

I only mentioned the Dodgers', because I considered them to be the Cubs' main stumbling block in the playoffs...otherwise, why would I bother talking about the Dodgers at ALL? Is it a silly argument to take Kershaw, Wood, Hill and McCarthy over Lester, Arrieta, Hendricks and Quintana...especially when you take the teams' HITTING into consideration?

I was kidding about the Avila trade...and the smiley face proves it. Is it often that you see a GM trade away his own son? Even you, in post #61, wrote that you "hoped I was saying that the fathers are there to take care of their children". You weren't sure what I meant THEN...but now you figured it all OUT?


As I have already said a couple times today, you are good, very good.

[olddaddy]

This is a sillier comment than any that I've ever made in this thread...IMO. And I'd like to see someone disagree with me on this one.

Kershaw comes back and pitches well, Darvish has a couple good outings or something happens to the cubs starting 4 and that someone could be me. But as of today, I stand by my original comment.

[thaskalos]

As I have already said a couple times today, you are good, very good.

Olddaddy...I think we could settle this in a definitive manner. You said that I am CLUELESS about baseball...and that I should sit back and soak up some baseball knowledge from you. This being primarily a gambling site (of sorts), and you being such a baseball "expert"...I am thinking that you've probably placed a sports-bet or two in your day. What would you say if I suggested that we put up some baseball-bet selections here until year's end...so we could see which one of us is really "clueless" about the game? Or is your baseball knowledge purely, "theoretical"...like those "experts" on SportsCenter?

To be honest, I've issued this sort of challenge several times before...to some self-professed "handicapping experts" over at the horse-racing section of this site....whenever they've loudly questioned my knowledge about the game. Alas...they've always refused my challenge, for whatever reason...and I wonder if you'll be the one who finally "puts me in my place". What do you say?

Please, please...don't tell me "No"...or give me some excuse. As I've already said...I hear that sort of reply a lot here...and it always disappoints me.

[mostpost]

I went into the All Star break despondent and discourage. I'm OK now. The real Cubs have appeared. The Dodgers are formidable foes, but they are beatable.

Since the All Star break, the Cubs are 13-3, while the Dodgers are 13-2. The five teams the Dodgers played since the break are a combined 53 games under .500. The five games the Cubs played are a combined 31 games under .500.

The two teams had two common opponents during that period; the Braves and the White Sox. The Cubs were 6-1 against those common opponents; the Dodgers were 4-2.

Cubs in six; now and in the playoffs.

[olddaddy]

Olddaddy...I think we could settle this in a definitive manner. You said that I am CLUELESS about baseball...and that I should sit back and soak up some baseball knowledge from you. This being primarily a gambling site (of sorts), and you being such a baseball "expert"...I am thinking that you've probably placed a sports-bet or two in your day. What would you say if I suggested that we put up some baseball-bet selections here until year's end...so we could see which one of us is really "clueless" about the game? Or is your baseball knowledge purely, "theoretical"...like those "experts" on SportsCenter?

To be honest, I've issued this sort of challenge several times before...to some self-professed "handicapping experts" over at the horse-racing section of this site....whenever they've loudly questioned my knowledge about the game. Alas...they've always refused my challenge, for whatever reason...and I wonder if you'll be the one who finally "puts me in my place". What do you say?

Please, please...don't tell me "No"...or give me some excuse. As I've already said...I hear that sort of reply a lot here...and it always disappoints me.

First I am far from being an expert and never claimed I was, those were your words not mine. If I was an expert I would have a front office job for some team which I dont or living the high life due to gambling gains which I am not.

I have followed the game intensely for well over a half of century as a hobby not as a gambling en devour. This may be very difficult for you to understand but I occasionally gamble only for entertainment purposes not the way most people here gamble. Believe it or not I can enjoy baseball immensely without betting on it.

I post sometimes in the baseball threads because I have knowledge and know and understand the game, my intention is never to put anyone in their place.

Regarding your challenge. You threw a challenge out a few years ago during the 2015 playoffs which I was willing to take you up on at the time but you mysteriously disappeared before a small wager could be made.

I dont know what type of challenge you have in mind now but dont expect it to be for big money because for one: I dont have big money, two: if I did have big money I would do other things with it and three: I wont be intimidated by you or anyone else who will correlate how much one knows by the amount one will bet.

[thaskalos]

First I am far from being an expert and never claimed I was, those were your words not mine. If I was an expert I would have a front office job for some team which I dont or living the high life due to gambling gains which I am not.

I have followed the game intensely for well over a half of century as a hobby not as a gambling en devour. This may be very difficult for you to understand but I occasionally gamble only for entertainment purposes not the way most people here gamble. Believe it or not I can enjoy baseball immensely without betting on it.

I post sometimes in the baseball threads because I have knowledge and know and understand the game, my intention is never to put anyone in their place.

Regarding your challenge. You threw a challenge out a few years ago during the 2015 playoffs which I was willing to take you up on at the time but you mysteriously disappeared before a small wager could be made.

I dont know what type of challenge you have in mind now but dont expect it to be for big money because for one: I dont have big money, two: if I did have big money I would do other things with it and three: I wont be intimidated by you or anyone else who will correlate how much one knows by the amount one will bet.

Refresh my memory...what sort of bet was this that made me "disappear"? Looking at our respective post counts...I find it hard to believe that the one who pulled the "disappearing act" was I.

And I made no mention of any monetary wager at ALL...so, I don't know where you got the idea that I was trying to "intimidate" you into placing any sort of wager which would make you in any way "uncomfortable".

Let's just place some hypothetical baseball wagers out there, with no real monetary value attached at all. I'm not trying to take any money from you...all I want is to prove to you that YOU are the clueless one, when the two of us compare "baseball knowledge".

[thaskalos]

I found the thread with the supposed "wager" that you were talking about...and your closing comment to me there was that you had placed the wager at a worse price with someone else. You even said to me that you hoped I waited in placing my OWN bet...so I could have gotten a better price for myself. There was no real wager discussion between you and I...nor did I "disappear" for any length of time. In fact...I commented in that thread soon AFTER you stopped posting there.

[olddaddy]

Refresh my memory...what sort of bet was this that made me "disappear"? Looking at our respective post counts...I find it hard to believe that the one who pulled the "disappearing act" was I.

And I made no mention of any monetary wager at ALL...so, I don't know where you got the idea that I was trying to "intimidate" you into placing any sort of wager which would make you in any way "uncomfortable".

Let's just place some hypothetical baseball wagers out there, with no real monetary value attached at all. I'm not trying to take any money from you...all I want is to prove to you that YOU are the clueless one, when the two of us compare "baseball knowledge".

This is what I was talking about in 2015.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1889768#post1889768


You are getting quite chippy. I have no idea what I have ever posted to make you think I was clueless.

You mentioned that Ive probably made baseball bet selections in my time and then followed with "What would you say if I suggested that we put up some baseball-bet selections here until year's end...so we could see which one of us is really "clueless" about the game? Or is your baseball knowledge purely, "theoretical"...like those "experts" on SportsCenter?" Comments like that only mean one thing. And no you dont make me feel uncomfortable in any way, its just that you should know no one ever forces me to do anything I dont want to do.

Im game but I really dont know what type of challenge you have in mind. Personally I think games from here to playoffs are basically meaningless for the cubs and dodgers. I would never make series bets now without knowing the status of the teams players. What do you have in mind?

[thaskalos]

This is what I was talking about in 2015.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1889768#post1889768


You are getting quite chippy. I have no idea what I have ever posted to make you think I was clueless.

You mentioned that Ive probably made baseball bet selections in my time and then followed with "What would you say if I suggested that we put up some baseball-bet selections here until year's end...so we could see which one of us is really "clueless" about the game? Or is your baseball knowledge purely, "theoretical"...like those "experts" on SportsCenter?" Comments like that only mean one thing. And no you dont make me feel uncomfortable in any way, its just that you should know no one ever forces me to do anything I dont want to do.

Im game but I really dont know what type of challenge you have in mind. Personally I think games from here to playoffs are basically meaningless for the cubs and dodgers. I would never make series bets now without knowing the status of the teams players. What do you have in mind?

Never mind...forget about the whole thing. There is a communication failure between us...and I lack the desire to explain things any further.

Let's just call the whole thing a "misunderstanding"...so we could end this, and go on our own way. Good night.

[olddaddy]

I found the thread with the supposed "wager" that you were talking about...and your closing comment to me there was that you had placed the wager at a worse price with someone else. You even said to me that you hoped I waited in placing my OWN bet...so I could have gotten a better price for myself. There was no real wager discussion between you and I...nor did I "disappear" for any length of time. In fact...I commented in that thread soon AFTER you stopped posting there.


You asked me if you wanted to bet, I told you I was getting +145 and would you be willing to give me that. Then before game time it dropped to +125, three hours after you solicited my bet. I knew at that point you werent going to give me +145 so I hoped you made your bet before the line changed so you got the better line. You next posted after game was over.

[olddaddy]

Never mind...forget about the whole thing. There is a communication failure between us...and I lack the desire to explain things any further.

Let's just call the whole thing a "misunderstanding"...so we could end this, and go on our own way. Good night.


Well we do agree on something, I feel the exact same way now. Good Night.

[thaskalos]

You asked me if you wanted to bet, I told you I was getting +145 and would you be willing to give me that. Then before game time it dropped to +125, three hours after you solicited my bet. I knew at that point you werent going to give me +145 so I hoped you made your bet before the line changed so you got the better line. You next posted after game was over.

And my "mysterious disappearance" was when I left the site for about 8 hours...and didn't see the bet-offer that you made? :confused:

Do you still remember which one of us won that bet?

[Valuist]

Your critique at the break was quite silly considering the cubs were basically injury free and in the worst division in baseball.

Pitching is most important in the playoffs and a team wont win it all without good pitching but that also doesnt mean a team with the best pitching will win. Luck comes majorly into play also. If the wahoos werent decimated by injuries you cubbie fans would still be talking about bartman, goats and black cats.


Way to early to see how far the cubbies will go but making the playoffs is a sure thing and always was.

Sorry, the worst division in MLB is NOT the NL Central, but NL (L)East. There's some hot garbage in that division. Pretty much everyone not residing in Washington.

[olddaddy]

Sorry, the worst division in MLB is NOT the NL Central, but NL (L)East. There's some hot garbage in that division. Pretty much everyone not residing in Washington.


Yes you are correct, the rest of the east has fallen off the cliff.