Harvard Study on Police Shootings and Race

[Dave Schwartz]

http://tribunist.com/news/harvard-study-on-police-shootings-and-race-offers-shocking-conclusion/?utm_source=CDH

Harvard Study on Police Shootings and Race Offers Shocking Conclusion


If you ever need an argument settled, once and for all, just ask a Harvard professor to conduct a study. They do it right. And, to their credit, they report on the results–even when those results don’t support their own agendas. Check out the bomb they’ve just dropped on Black Lives Matter and all of the armchair pundits.

[chadk66]

this doesn't surprise me a bit. it'll be very interesting to see how the left spins this. that is if they don't completely ignore it altogether.

[PaceAdvantage]

This is an old story...from 2016...

[Dave Schwartz]

This is an old story...from 2016...

Missed that. Has it already been discussed?

(I thought it sounded familiar.)

[Parkview_Pirate]

One way to "spin" these studies, is always checking the raw data and go from there.

Fryer’s conclusions aren’t the only ones challenging the racist cop narrative. The Washington Post studied shooting deaths by law enforcement officials in 2015. 494 white suspects were killed. That number is almost double the number of black suspects killed: 258.

Based on just those numbers, one can easily spin that blacks are still overrepresented, as they comprise 13.3% of the population (versus whites at 76.9%). Based on that ratio and if race were the ONLY factor, one could expect 131 black suspects killed instead of almost twice that number.

Obviously other factors like class, circumstances, time of day and location come into play.

And as a side note, I would hardly describe Harvard studies as "doing it right". Like all other parties, they have their agenda....

[thaskalos]

One way to "spin" these studies, is always checking the raw data and go from there.



Based on just those numbers, one can easily spin that blacks are still overrepresented, as they comprise 13.3% of the population (versus whites at 76.9%). Based on that ratio and if race were the ONLY factor, one could expect 131 black suspects killed instead of almost twice that number.

Obviously other factors like class, circumstances, time of day and location come into play.

And as a side note, I would hardly describe Harvard studies as "doing it right". Like all other parties, they have their agenda....

:ThmbUp:

You obviously have more sense than the Harvard professor who conducted this "earth-shattering" study.

Luckily...my kid is going to YALE.

[Tom]

At a basketball game, a student from Yale starts to walk out of the Men's room without washing his hands.

Another student at the sink say to him, "We, from Harvard, never leave the privy without washing our hands!"

The Yale student replied, "We, from Yale, never piss on our fingers!"

[MONEY]

One way to "spin" these studies, is always checking the raw data and go from there.



Based on just those numbers, one can easily spin that blacks are still overrepresented, as they comprise 13.3% of the population (versus whites at 76.9%). Based on that ratio and if race were the ONLY factor, one could expect 131 black suspects killed instead of almost twice that number.

Obviously other factors like class, circumstances, time of day and location come into play.

And as a side note, I would hardly describe Harvard studies as "doing it right". Like all other parties, they have their agenda....
Neither the Harvard Study or your population percentage based numbers tell the truth.
A proper result should be based on the amount of assaults/homicides committed by each group.

[thaskalos]

Neither the Harvard Study or your population percentage based numbers tell the truth.
A proper result should be based on the amount of assaults/homicides committed by each group.

He mentioned that "obviously other factors come into play".

[chadk66]

One way to "spin" these studies, is always checking the raw data and go from there.



Based on just those numbers, one can easily spin that blacks are still overrepresented, as they comprise 13.3% of the population (versus whites at 76.9%). Based on that ratio and if race were the ONLY factor, one could expect 131 black suspects killed instead of almost twice that number.

Obviously other factors like class, circumstances, time of day and location come into play.

And as a side note, I would hardly describe Harvard studies as "doing it right". Like all other parties, they have their agenda....I think blacks represent more than 13% of the population where they took these numbers from.

[thaskalos]

I think blacks represent more than 13% of the population where they took these numbers from.

The article says that the survey was conducted using data from California, Florida and Texas. Florida's black population is 18%, while Texas and California have black populations of 13% and 8% respectively (using 2014 stats). That takes us exactly to the 13% national average. What prompted you to say that the black percentages were higher in this survey?

[Inner Dirt]

The percentage of blacks in the population is immaterial in a study of police shootings as they commit a disproportionately high amount of violent crimes compared to their percentage of the population. Pretty sure committing violent crimes is high on the list of increasing your likelihood of having a possible lethal encounter with police.

[chadk66]

The article says that the survey was conducted using data from California, Florida and Texas. Florida's black population is 18%, while Texas and California have black populations of 13% and 8% respectively (using 2014 stats). That takes us exactly to the 13% national average. What prompted you to say that the black percentages were higher in this survey?I didn't read it very close I understood these were stats from big cities where blacks make up a much larger percentage. So did the number of blacks being shot go up 5% in Florida?

[chadk66]

I can say with confidence that once you put a cop in a position where he feels compelled to shoot you, he isn't taking the time to decide what race you are and whether or not he should shoot you because your black. He's just saving his and others asses at that point. The color of some dudes skin is the furthest thing from their mind.

[Parkview_Pirate]

Neither the Harvard Study or your population percentage based numbers tell the truth.
A proper result should be based on the amount of assaults/homicides committed by each group.

I simply pointed out one way to "spin" the data, where erroneous conclusions can be drawn. This, of course, is often done intentionally.

As for the "amount of assaults/homicides committed by each group" being a more proper approach, that seems like a different topic than the profiles of people fatally shot by police, which of course would also include other crimes like theft, rape and kidnapping.

Who's committing violent crimes (a much larger group) is not the issue as the proper use of deadly force by police.

[JustRalph]

I can say with confidence that once you put a cop in a position where he feels compelled to shoot you, he isn't taking the time to decide what race you are and whether or not he should shoot you because your black. He's just saving his and others asses at that point. The color of some dudes skin is the furthest thing from their mind.

Exactly right.

This reminds me of the bullshit charges made about police radar years back. "Red cars get more tickets" "corvettes get more tickets" shit like that.

Officers don't even know what kind or color a car is until the radar has already clocked or caught the attention of the officer. In most situations. Then an officer makes note of the type and color for pursuit purposes.

Same in possible shooting situations. It's the actions of the suspect that dictate a reaction from an officer. Cops don't have the luxury of thinking "oh this is a white guy" or "this is a black guy"
Before shooting or using force. They react to perceived threats.
The rest of the info is compiled after

[Inner Dirt]

Exactly right.
This reminds me of the bullshit charges made about police radar years back. "Red cars get more tickets" "corvettes get more tickets" shit like that.


What about before radar or other speed guns were widely used and officers actually patrolled the highways instead of laying in wait? I live in Virginia where cops with speed guns are very prevalent, you rarely see a cop patrolling the roads here, they are usually parked either with a speed gun or writing a ticket.

[thaskalos]

Perhaps the focus of this Harvard study was misguided from the very start. It should have investigated the race implications in the Police shootings where the victim was UNARMED.

[Inner Dirt]

Perhaps the focus of this Harvard study was misguided from the very start. It should have investigated the race implications in the Police shootings where the victim was UNARMED.

What is the liberal definition of unarmed? The liberal media has defined people who were bashing someone's head in to concrete, someone trying to take a policeman's gun, and someone trying to run people over with a car as UNARMED.

[thaskalos]

What is the liberal definition of unarmed? The liberal media has defined people who were bashing someone's head in to concrete, someone trying to take a policeman's gun, and someone trying to run people over with a car as UNARMED.

My definition of an "unarmed shooting" is when the victim is shot by a cop while having no weapon on his/her person. I would like to know what percentage-relationship there is between black and white victims in such cases.

[whodoyoulike]

Good thing she had her I.D.

I wonder how this will turn out?

On the evening of June 19, Orlando police pulled over a white Ford Fusion with tinted windows. Inside was Aramis Ayala, Florida’s first and only African American state attorney — a fact that the two officers who stopped her apparently didn’t know. ...

Sorry, the link below appears that one needs a subscription but the article is currently on Google news.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/07/13/police-stop-a-woman-for-her-tinted-windows-then-learn-shes-a-florida-state-attorney/?utm_term=.1ae35694702f

[JustRalph]

What about before radar or other speed guns were widely used and officers actually patrolled the highways instead of laying in wait? I live in Virginia where cops with speed guns are very prevalent, you rarely see a cop patrolling the roads here, they are usually parked either with a speed gun or writing a ticket.

Different kettle of fish. Btw, good departments don't "lay in wait"
You can run radar while patrolling. I wasn't big on traffic tickets, but I used to teach radar and intoxilyzer courses. One point I always made was "laying in wait" either for speed violations or drunk drivers coming out of the "entertainment districts" was bad PR. But of course most departments were led by people who thought differently. School zones might be the exception

[Inner Dirt]

Different kettle of fish. Btw, good departments don't "lay in wait"
You can run radar while patrolling. I wasn't big on traffic tickets, but I used to teach radar and intoxilyzer courses. One point I always made was "laying in wait" either for speed violations or drunk drivers coming out of the "entertainment districts" was bad PR. But of course most departments were led by people who thought differently. School zones might be the exception

Problem is with laying in wait in the common areas for that practice on our highways it eliminates catching the most unsafe drivers on the road. The tailgaters, chronic lane swappers, people weaving while texting, etc,etc don't get caught without patrolling. Most times the officer sits in a paved pass thru for "official vehicles only" in a heavily wooded center divider, his field of vision is severely limited. In my opinion it isn't about public safety it is about revenue collection. A pack of cars well spaced doing 7 mph over in the left hand lane on a clear sunny day isn't near the hazard as the above mentioned, yet they are the only ones cited. Of course the speeders are easy pickings, pretty sure they aren't catching locals.

Coming from California, Virginia is a strange place for law enforcement, rural areas in Cali have officers covering large beats. The neighboring county has a sheriff's employee every two square miles and a lot of it is farmland, woods, and houses that are 1/4 mile apart or more. I see more officers here in the rural areas than I see if I go to the large cities.

[Valuist]

The denominator should not be a particular race's % of the population, but their % of violent crime committed.

[MONEY]

Problem is with laying in wait in the common areas for that practice on our highways it eliminates catching the most unsafe drivers on the road. The tailgaters, chronic lane swappers, people weaving while texting, etc,etc don't get caught without patrolling. Most times the officer sits in a paved pass thru for "official vehicles only" in a heavily wooded center divider, his field of vision is severely limited. In my opinion it isn't about public safety it is about revenue collection. A pack of cars well spaced doing 7 mph over in the left hand lane on a clear sunny day isn't near the hazard as the above mentioned, yet they are the only ones cited. Of course the speeders are easy pickings, pretty sure they aren't catching locals.

Coming from California, Virginia is a strange place for law enforcement, rural areas in Cali have officers covering large beats. The neighboring county has a sheriff's employee every two square miles and a lot of it is farmland, woods, and houses that are 1/4 mile apart or more. I see more officers here in the rural areas than I see if I go to the large cities.

The "laying in wait" is not for catching speeders, even though speeders do get caught.
The main reason for laying in wait is to get drivers to slow down, now and in the future.
I'm sure many of you have sped by police cars parked on the highway and you immediately slow down
and think "OH CRAP" I'm going to get a ticket. Then to your surprise the police car doesn't leave it's position.
In the near future whenever drive near that same spot, you will slow down.

There aren't more police in rural areas than in urban areas.
The police in rural areas have many less roads to patrol, so it seems that there are cops everywhere,
simply because to get around you have to use the same limited roads that the police have to use.

[chadk66]

The "laying in wait" is not for catching speeders, even though speeders do get caught.
The main reason for laying in wait is to get drivers to slow down, now and in the future.
I'm sure many of you have sped by police cars parked on the highway and you immediately slow down
and think "OH CRAP" I'm going to get a ticket. Then to your surprise the police car doesn't leave it's position.
In the near future whenever drive near that same spot, you will slow down.

There aren't more police in rural areas than in urban areas.
The police in rural areas have many less roads to patrol, so it seems that there are cops everywhere,
simply because to get around you have to use the same limited roads that the police have to use.to some degree that's probably quite true. one of the biggest reasons now days for them to be pulled over/parked is so they can do their reports on their computers. You can be out making a presence and doing your book work at the same time now days.

[Inner Dirt]

The "laying in wait" is not for catching speeders, even though speeders do get caught.
The main reason for laying in wait is to get drivers to slow down, now and in the future.
I'm sure many of you have sped by police cars parked on the highway and you immediately slow down
and think "OH CRAP" I'm going to get a ticket. Then to your surprise the police car doesn't leave it's position.
In the near future whenever drive near that same spot, you will slow down.

There aren't more police in rural areas than in urban areas.
The police in rural areas have many less roads to patrol, so it seems that there are cops everywhere,
simply because to get around you have to use the same limited roads that the police have to use.

Believe what you want, I just drive 4 mph over through the laying in wait area, more often than not when someone passes me like they are doing close to 10 over soon the man flies past me and pulls them over. Also I have not whizzed by a parked cop and not got a ticket, I don't speed through cherry patch central. Where you live it may be different, here it is all about writing tickets. As for having a lot of officers patrolling rural areas I got the numbers off the sheriff's website. I wasn't making them up.

[thaskalos]

The "laying in wait" is not for catching speeders, even though speeders do get caught.
The main reason for laying in wait is to get drivers to slow down, now and in the future.
I'm sure many of you have sped by police cars parked on the highway and you immediately slow down
and think "OH CRAP" I'm going to get a ticket. Then to your surprise the police car doesn't leave it's position.
In the near future whenever drive near that same spot, you will slow down.

There aren't more police in rural areas than in urban areas.
The police in rural areas have many less roads to patrol, so it seems that there are cops everywhere,
simply because to get around you have to use the same limited roads that the police have to use.

When a cop is "laying in wait" in a dark, obscure street-corner at midnight...what sort of speed-race is he anticipating?

[JustRalph]

When a cop is "laying in wait" in a dark, obscure street-corner at midnight...what sort of speed-race is he anticipating?

If he is working midnight shift, he most likely has a whole different reason for sitting where he sits at midnight

[thaskalos]

If he is working midnight shift, he most likely has a whole different reason for sitting where he sits at midnight

Could be.

Just like that cop the other night...who tail-gated me for 30 blocks at midnight as I was driving home from the gym...while I was the only car on the street, in a no-crime neighborhood. Or that other cop...who visited my home at 3 AM, to ticket my car on my driveway because I was late in purchasing my city sticker.

When the cops work in quiet suburbs...they have to occupy themselves SOMEHOW.

[JustRalph]

Could be.

Just like that cop the other night...who tail-gated me for 30 blocks at midnight as I was driving home from the gym...while I was the only car on the street, in a no-crime neighborhood. Or that other cop...who visited my home at 3 AM, to ticket my car on my driveway because I was late in purchasing my city sticker.

When the cops work in quiet suburbs...they have to occupy themselves SOMEHOW.

That my friend is a chickenshit ticket

[MONEY]

Could be.

Just like that cop the other night...who tail-gated me for 30 blocks at midnight as I was driving home from the gym...while I was the only car on the street, in a no-crime neighborhood. Or that other cop...who visited my home at 3 AM, to ticket my car on my driveway because I was late in purchasing my city sticker.

When the cops work in quiet suburbs...they have to occupy themselves SOMEHOW.
Some cops are JERKS.
I don't know where you live, but everywhere that I have ever lived driveways are considered private property. As far as I know people are allowed to have unregistered/uninsured vehicles on private property.

[jms62]

Some cops are JERKS.
I don't know where you live, but everywhere that I have ever lived driveways are considered private property. As far as I know people are allowed to have unregistered/uninsured vehicles on private property.

That is 100% correct. The violation is "Operating" an uninsured/unregistered vehicle. The cop is assuming you won't fight the ticket and simply send in the check.

Note

After rereading his post it seems like it was a parking sticker so what I said isnt applicable to that situation.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

:ThmbUp:

You obviously have more sense than the Harvard professor who conducted this "earth-shattering" study.

Luckily...my kid is going to YALE.

Fantastic.

My child that is 8 years old and a member of MENSA will be attending MIT next year.

[Hank]

http://tribunist.com/news/harvard-study-on-police-shootings-and-race-offers-shocking-conclusion/?utm_source=CDH

Harvard Study on Police Shootings and Race Offers Shocking Conclusion

Truly laughable,most of the time here in the twilight zone, elite university's are derided as liberal bastions of trash,but when they produce something and supports right-wing talking points.... then 'THEY DO IT RIGHT":lol:

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Truly laughable,most of the time here in the twilight zone, elite university's are derided as liberal bastions of trash,but when they produce something and supports right-wing talking points.... then 'THEY DO IT RIGHT":lol:

And when they continually support the Left; then everything in magic land is fine, right?

[thaskalos]

Fantastic.

My child that is 8 years old and a member of MENSA will be attending MIT next year.

He obviously inherited his intelligence from his daddy. :ThmbUp:

[Lemon Drop Husker]

He obviously inherited his intelligence from his daddy. :ThmbUp:

Maybe.

If he can master the art of sarcassm in today's world of crapness, then he'll be christened as my own.

Till then, he'll be known as Thaskalos.

[thaskalos]

Maybe.

If he can master the art of sarcassm in today's world of crapness, then he'll be christened as my own.

Till then, he'll be known as Thaskalos.

Don't get me involved in this. I don't even KNOW your wife.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Don't get me involved in this. I don't even KNOW your wife.

She says you were horrible in bed and you spoke Russian.

[thaskalos]

She says you were horrible in bed and you spoke Russian.

Sorry, friend...this isn't my style. I don't play in the dirt.

[barn32]

On the evening of June 19, Orlando police pulled over a white Ford Fusion with tinted windows. Here is something I don't understand. In Nevada, the legal tint percentage is 35%. Yet, you will see countless cars with 25, 20 or even 15% tint. And the companies who install tint are under no obligation to comply with the legal percentage. Whatever the customer wants is OK with them.

It's impossible to see who is driving these cars. Are they waving a gun? Are they black? Are they white? Is a rabbit driving the car?

I know the cops in Vegas are up against it. Not being able to see inside a vehicle makes their job even harder.

Nevada's tinting restrictions are lenient (http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/24949886/illegal-vehicle-window-tint-can-cost-you-a-ticket)compared with those in other states. Elliott said that in Nevada, you are allowed have your rear and back passenger windows as dark as you like. It's the front window and front side windows police are looking at.

Lenient is an understatement. I've never heard of anyone being cited for illegal tint. I can't understand why they don't crack down on this especially in high crime areas like Las Vegas.

[Inner Dirt]

The "laying in wait" is not for catching speeders, even though speeders do get caught.
The main reason for laying in wait is to get drivers to slow down, now and in the future.
I'm sure many of you have sped by police cars parked on the highway and you immediately slow down
and think "OH CRAP" I'm going to get a ticket. Then to your surprise the police car doesn't leave it's position.
In the near future whenever drive near that same spot, you will slow down.

There aren't more police in rural areas than in urban areas.
The police in rural areas have many less roads to patrol, so it seems that there are cops everywhere,
simply because to get around you have to use the same limited roads that the police have to use.

Another reason that isn't true here. They hide in the the official vehicle pass thrus in the heavily wooded center dividers. You can't see them unless you look to the extreme left when passing the small gap. They are purposely staying out of view. They sit in the middle and off to one side, smack dab in the hardest place to spot them from the highway.

[MONEY]

Another reason that isn't true here. They hide in the the official vehicle pass thrus in the heavily wooded center dividers. You can't see them unless you look to the extreme left when passing the small gap. They are purposely staying out of view. They sit in the middle and off to one side, smack dab in the hardest place to spot them from the highway.
But you see them anyway and you remember where those heavily wooded areas are located. Most importantly, you slow down because you know or you think you know that the cops are hiding in wait in the heavily wooded areas.

[Inner Dirt]

But you see them anyway and you remember where those heavily wooded areas are located. Most importantly, you slow down because you know or you think you know that the cops are hiding in wait in the heavily wooded areas.

You are 100% wrong and no one will convince you otherwise, maybe Ralph can chime in on these obvious ticket writing cherry patches. If they were just there to show a police presence they would just park an empty car in plain view like they city police do in larger cities here. A non observant driver won't even know the cops are hiding in the cutouts until they get a ticket, especially someone just passing through.

[MONEY]

You are 100% wrong and no one will convince you otherwise, maybe Ralph can chime in on these obvious ticket writing cherry patches. If they were just there to show a police presence they would just park an empty car in plain view like they city police do in larger cities here. A non observant driver won't even know the cops are hiding in the cutouts until they get a ticket, especially someone just passing through.
You're right, Ralph will show me.
My 20+ years experience as a New York City Police Officer mean nothing.

[Inner Dirt]

You're right, Ralph will show me.
My 20+ years experience as a New York City Police Officer mean nothing.

What would a New York City police officer know about rural speed traps or whatever you want to call them? Your job was as different to rural traffic enforcement as an elephant is to a bumble bee. Is it even possible to speed in NYC with all the congestion? Last time I passed through NYC and the surrounding suburbs I may have hit a top speed of 30 MPH on the freeway.

[MONEY]

What would a New York City police officer know about rural speed traps or whatever you want to call them? Your job was as different to rural traffic enforcement as an elephant is to a bumble bee. Is it even possible to speed in NYC with all the congestion? Last time I passed through NYC and the surrounding suburbs I may have hit a top speed of 30 MPH on the freeway.
I can assure you that all of NYCs roads do not look like the Major Deegan or the Cross Bronx Expressway.
The Bronx River Parkway is lightly traveled at night, much of it is not lit and the northern part has some nice
very dark turnarounds for cops to hide in.

Many streets in the city are set at bad angles for drivers to see police laying in wait.
Late in my career, I personally used them after I got close to reaching my required number of summonses
for the month. I would only issue summonses to drivers that committed a traffic violation and also had their paperwork
out of order. The others were let go with a warning.

In any case, you may keep on speeding past those speed traps if you like.
Paying speeding tickets is not my preferred way to spend my money.
Cruise control is a great device, I use it all the time.