Bizarre ride at PID. Race 7 - July 11.

[menifee]

Watch the jockey on the 8. Can take the winner anytime he wants. Keeps him hemmed in behind him the whole time during the stretch run. Looks like he did not want to win the race.

[jimmyb]

I agree, it was a BS ride. The rider of the 8 had a lot of horse.

[luisbe]

Now check carefully Mario Pino on number 2 at 29-1 in the 8th.
What do you think?

[jimmyb]

Now check carefully Mario Pino on number 2 at 29-1 in the 8th.
What do you think?

Looks like he strangled his mount out of the gate. Was second going into the stretch and never touched him, never tried.

Monkey business. I'll be staying away from PID.

[Afleet]

Watch the jockey on the 8. Can take the winner anytime he wants. Keeps him hemmed in behind him the whole time during the stretch run. Looks like he did not want to win the race.

That was at least questionable, if not flat out cheating.

[Afleet]

Now check carefully Mario Pino on number 2 at 29-1 in the 8th.
What do you think?

Coming around the turn you would think you would see the jock pumping his arms more and going to the whip. He never did either, but can't tell if he was just out of horse or not. but it looks like he gave no effort.

I don't bet PA racing even though I will be owning a few PA bred foals in 2 years. Have part share of 3 mares in foal.

[redlandb]

I wasn't playing the race, but just watched the replay... Pure Horseshit!!!

[Hambletonian]

Wow.

He was coasting, hands were motionless, to the top of the stretch. Then he drafts behind the leader while giving a few token smacks with the whip, bit making no effort to change lanes. Then, very late in the stretch he swings out and starts vigorously working on the horse to make it look good, then stops right before the wire as if he realized he might be cutting it too close.

I am very dubious about most threads that complain about jockey's intents...but I really would love for someone to explain just what exactly was going on here. There does not appear to be a rational explanation as to what his thought process was unless it was to finish second at all costs.

[Dahoss9698]

Be careful guys. Whodoyoulike (a non bettor) is going to tell you you're being paranoid.

[JustRalph]

Shame on both

Pino's horse was keen to run....... they had 29-1 what price did they want?

See em here

http://www.presqueisledowns.com/racing/race-event-replays

[zawaaa]

that is a tough loss to swallow, iws

here are some of my notes from watching the race:

• the jockey (Feliciano) seemed determined at the head of the stretch to pass inside of the lead horse (Brave Act) when getting clear was simple enough.

• the horse (Hopehard) & jockey between them were painfully slow and indecisive to redirect their path to the outside in the stretch run.

• the winning jockey (Rivera) did some very good race-riding to cut off his opponents path; although his horse maybe have been drifting to some extent, i'll give him credit.

[airford1]

And we keep playing. This type of non-racing is why you can't handicap exacta's, Tri's and Supers. Been that way for awhile at ALL tracks.

[Ruffian1]

Watch the jockey on the 8. Can take the winner anytime he wants. Keeps him hemmed in behind him the whole time during the stretch run. Looks like he did not want to win the race.


I see what you saw. But what you saw was IMO not the intent of the rider.
I came to this conclusion based on the two replays views provided by Ralph's link.

When watching the pan version replay look at the inside rein of the 8 horse at the :58 mark through the 1:00 mark, or until you lose the angle that allows you to see the inside rein. You will see the inside rein loose with no pressure on the inside of the horses mouth.

Then wait until 1:05 or as soon as you can see the outside rein and you will see the rein very tight with a lot of pressure on the outside of the horses mouth. This was consistent during the 5 seconds that there was no clear view of the reins but a clear view of the riders hands that did not change other than to draw the stick which he draws left handed so he has a little help getting the horse off the fence and because the rider has all his pressure on the right rein meaning he cannot possibly draw the stick with his right hand .This lasts until about 1:18 when the rider finally gets the horse off the fence.

(I am not sure of this next paragraph as both views make it tough to see for sure but what I think I see and what is very consistent with what riders do as a last resort is that they take the whip and lightly brush the left side of the horses mouth where the bit is. Sometimes that will help to get the horse to unlock their teeth so as to straighten out. Or after a light swipe, they just place the popper end of the stick directly on to the mouth at the bit. Not to hit them but to make them feel it and realize what might come next. I think the rider does that but it is not clear. However, just as that swipe of the stick happens and the stick is seemingly laying on the horses mouth, the horse stops lugging in badly so I assume what I think I see is exactly what I described . (I mean, hey, something got the horse to let off the left part of the rein right?)
Look for this action to occur on the head on view between about :57 thru about 1:05 especially 1:02 and 1:03 and 1:04.
Back to the analysis:

The outside rein becomes less tight . That is the rider finally getting to ride the horse forward. And the inside rein is now the same slightly less tight that places the bit in the back of the horses mouth so the horse will grab it equally and go. And yes, the rider does grab the horse again a jump or two before the wire but the head on replay will show that the horse is lugging in again the gap between has gone from 3 feet to 1 1/2 feet or thereabouts. In actuality the winner is coming over on the 8 more than the other way around but the 8 has reestablished a grip on the inside of the bit with the left part of the horses jaw instead of an even grip .

So, from all that I saw, this was on the horse, not the rider.
Hope this helps.

[whodoyoulike]

...

So, from all that I saw, this was on the horse, not the rider.
Hope this helps.

I agree with you.

The horse wasn't gaining ground on the leader after the top of the stretch even though the rider was trying and only gained ground when the leader started tiring.

Good eye.

[JustRalph]

So, your position is that he was trying to get that horse to move out, but the horse wouldn't?

[cj]

So, your position is that he was trying to get that horse to move out, but the horse wouldn't?


For what it is worth the chart caller seems to agree as well, noting the horse was lugging in.

[whodoyoulike]

So, your position is that he was trying to get that horse to move out, but the horse wouldn't?

First off thanks for posting the race link, I don't like it when people discuss a race and most people can't follow along.

If this question is directed towards me, that's not the way I saw it.

The 2nd horse wasn't gaining on the leader after the passing the top of the stretch although they were trying.

Close to the finish line the lead jockey hit his horse several times then I noticed the horse's tail went up which meant to me he was done.

At that point, the 2nd horse's jockey did actually moved his horse out to pass on the right but you can see that the horse was also tired and couldn't get past.

It looked to me he was gaining at the finish but the leader was actually backing up as the 2nd horse was but the 2nd horse was just backing up at slower rate.

Do you mean moving out at some other point?

[AltonKelsey]

That was some pitiful horsemanship at best.

Generally , if a horse is lugging in so badly that you can't get it off the rail , it will not suddenly stop doing that.

Once he shifted out, the horse is NOT lugging in at all.

Best defense here is , it's so bad that he'd have to be a jackass to have done it deliberately.

[Ruffian1]

So, your position is that he was trying to get that horse to move out, but the horse wouldn't?


Yes.

[Ruffian1]

That was some pitiful horsemanship at best.

Generally , if a horse is lugging in so badly that you can't get it off the rail , it will not suddenly stop doing that.

Once he shifted out, the horse is NOT lugging in at all.

Best defense here is , it's so bad that he'd have to be a jackass to have done it deliberately.


This is true unless you can make the horse lose focus of clamping down on one side of the bit. It looks to me that the rider was able to do that by doing what I described .
I have seen it work plenty of times before but also not work. It is a desperation move by the rider who if not careful will get fined or days for misuse of the whip.

[Dahoss9698]

First off thanks for posting the race link, I don't like it when people discuss a race and most people can't follow along.

If this question is directed towards me, that's not the way I saw it.

The 2nd horse wasn't gaining on the leader after the passing the top of the stretch although they were trying.

Close to the finish line the lead jockey hit his horse several times then I noticed the horse's tail went up which meant to me he was done.

At that point, the 2nd horse's jockey did actually moved his horse out to pass on the right but you can see that the horse was also tired and couldn't get past.

It looked to me he was gaining at the finish but the leader was actually backing up as the 2nd horse was but the 2nd horse was just backing up at slower rate.

Do you mean moving out at some other point?

This is a terrible opinion.

[Dahoss9698]

That was some pitiful horsemanship at best.

Generally , if a horse is lugging in so badly that you can't get it off the rail , it will not suddenly stop doing that.

Once he shifted out, the horse is NOT lugging in at all.

Best defense here is , it's so bad that he'd have to be a jackass to have done it deliberately.

Yeah that's what it looked like to me. A stronger, more competent rider should have been able to get the horse shifted out.

The horse did not lug in when he finally got it clear and went by the leader 20 yards past the finish line.

[sour grapes]

Yeah that's what it looked like to me. A stronger, more competent rider should have been able to get the horse shifted out.

The horse did not lug in when he finally got it clear and went by the leader 20 yards past the finish line.

thank goodness we have you here to state the obvious,now that dahoss has expressed his opinion the thread should be closed as their is no other higher authority.

[Dahoss9698]

thank goodness we have you here to state the obvious,now that dahoss has expressed his opinion the thread should be closed as their is no other higher authority.

There would be the spelling you want to use there. Not their.

[JustRalph]

If he couldn't move that horse off the rail, shame on him.

I think he played his part perfectly in a well rehearsed script.

[jimmyb]

If he couldn't move that horse off the rail, shame on him.

I think he played his part perfectly in a well rehearsed script.

It's a genetic mutation in the jockey, Ralph. His dad was once suspended 5 years for using an electrical device and ten years for race fixing.

https://www.pressboxonline.com/story/3302/some-bad-memories-of-valentines-day-a-long-time-ago

[JustRalph]

It's a genetic mutation in the jockey, Ralph. His dad was once suspended 5 years for using an electrical device and ten years for race fixing.

https://www.pressboxonline.com/story/3302/some-bad-memories-of-valentines-day-a-long-time-ago

Thanks very much👍 I was unaware. Chip, meet block.....

[hopbet]

FYI
HOPEHARD is entered at PRESQUE ISLE DOWNS on Monday ( July 17) . The race number is the (fifth)> Interesting they are going TWO turns( 1 mile and sixteenth)