Sources say Rojas Found Guilty

[Ian Meyers]

Murray Rojas was found guilty on 14 of 21 counts according to Ray Paulick's info.


Ray Paulick @raypaulick

PA source: Jury finds Penn National trainer Murray Rojas guilty on 14 of 21 counts in federal case alleging fraud, conspiracy & misbranding
3h






Based upon Fed guidelines, fact she's got no record, etc. I'm guessing Rojas gets between 37-51 months but that's just my my take after spending time reading Fed sentencing statutes.


BTW, Ray is best in the biz now at breaking stuff.

[TonyK@HSH]

While that headline may be correct, Rojas was found not guilty of wire fraud. And it appears that most of the guilty charges will be corrected in appeal.
That doesn't mean that Murray is free and clear as she still may face state and racing commission action.

[Ian Meyers]

While that headline may be correct, Rojas was found not guilty of wire fraud. And it appears that most of the guilty charges will be corrected in appeal.
That doesn't mean that Murray is free and clear as she still may face state and racing commission action.


It would be a travesty if she or anyone else implicated in this case ever set foot on a racetrack again.

[Track Phantom]

It would be a travesty if she or anyone else implicated in this case ever set foot on a racetrack again.
What is the over/under on "business-as-usual" in the racing community once this trial is done? I say 72 hours.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

PA source: Jury finds Penn National trainer Murray Rojas guilty on 14 of 21 counts in federal case alleging fraud, conspiracy & misbranding


Reminds me of story from the cold war days. The U.S. and U.S.S.R. have a dual track meet which the U.S. wins. The headline in Pravda read, "U.S.S.R. finishes second at track meet; U.S. only beats one"

Accurate but not the whole story.

[Tom]

They just might decide to set an example in this case.
She could be looking at 14 days.

[proximity]

It would be a travesty if she or anyone else implicated in this case ever set foot on a racetrack again.

there's a rumor going around that some involved parties have been asked to leave penn national by tomorrow. the person who told me this, however, is just a mere HORSEPLAYER..... no one important!! :rolleyes:

[whodoyoulike]

there's a rumor going around that some involved parties have been asked to leave penn national by tomorrow. the person who told me this, however, is just a mere HORSEPLAYER..... no one important!! :rolleyes:

Since this is Penn it will probably be the prosecuting attorney and that FBI guy.

[TonyK@HSH]

It is true that Steph Beattie and Eddie Rojas had to vacate their stalls at Penn. Murray had no stalls allotted to her.

To the best of my knowledge, the racing commission has not yet taken any action in this case.

Tony

[Jeff P]

by Ray Paulick | 07.05.2017 | 10:59am --
View From The Eighth Pole: In Rojas Trial, HBPA Plays The Part Of Enabler:
https://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/view-eighth-pole-rojas-trial-hbpa-plays-part-enabler/

The evidence in the case was abundant. Internal records at veterinary practices run by Drs. Kevin Brophy and Fernando Motta showed Rojas requested race day treatments of therapeutic drugs in violation of Pennsylvania rules and regulations. Treatments were performed by veterinarians Brophy, Motta, Christopher Korte and Renee Nodine, who then had invoices backdated and racing commission treatment records falsified to avoid detection. The four veterinarians pleaded guilty in April 2015 to illegally administering drugs to horses and cooperated with the prosecution.

This was not a case built around a positive test resulting from accidental contamination of a human drug or a picogram overage of a therapeutic medication. It was ongoing, organized cheating – gaming the system at the expense of honest owners and trainers and sticking up the middle finger in the face of horseplayers.

So why on earth would the National HBPA and its Pennsylvania affiliate put up a nickel to defend Rojas?

During a break in the proceedings last Tuesday, Todd Mostoller, the Pennsylvania HBPA's executive director, told me his organization helped pay for the defense over a concern that the next time a trainer gets a bad test for a minor overage of a therapeutic drug, he or she will wind up in federal court facing a felony charge.

That argument is preposterous scaremongering, falsely setting the federal government up as a bogeyman.

To compare a minor drug overage to the cesspool of cheating and corruption at Penn National indicates how grossly out of touch with reality Mostoller and his associate at the National HBPA, chief executive officer Eric Hamelback, have become.



-jp

.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

I have a blog piece coming out on the Rojas case and HBPA tomorrow, but the short story is that HBPA's financial support of Rojas defense team had to do with the fact that they believed the wire fraud charge was an overreach by the federal prosecutor. This was a lot less about Rojas' violations than it was about where she should have been prosecuted.

The feds managed to come up with the wire fraud charge because the checks used to pay out the purses were drawn on an out of state bank. If it is in fact the case that a medication violation can be considered wire fraud as long as the payment check came from an out of state bank, then the feds had essentially created a new precedent for wire fraud, and I'm not sure giving the feds that kind of power would have been good for racing in the long run. Even if you thought Rojas was guilty as sin, the question of whether you should use the sledgehammer of the federal government to get her is pertinent. This is most likely a case where the state should have been the appropriate enforcing authority, not the feds.

Whether or not you believe the current group of racing regulators in PA is doing a great or poor job, the philosophical question of who should have jurisdiction in the case of medication violations, even for a serial violator, is worth discussing. If the problem is the existing power structure, the first fix should be to repair any structural or personnel problems at the state. But I think you have to have no reason to believe the problem is repairable at the state level before bringing in the feds.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

My opinion on the Murray Rojas decision is posted at halveyonhorseracing.com

And before anyone takes a shot, I don't defend what Rojas did. It is more about whether the feds overreached with their wire fraud charge..

Have at it.

[lamboguy]

there is much more to this case than Murray Rojas or Beattie. the feds stepped in because the state of pennsylvania does not do the job that they get paid for. i know i had a run in with stewards and state police in that state and it is horrendous.

what these vets and trainers did was right in front of the regulators of the state of pennsylvania's noses. the state gets a portion of the handle and owes the public protection from what goes on in race tracks.

[whodoyoulike]

My opinion on the Murray Rojas decision is posted at halveyonhorseracing.com

And before anyone takes a shot, I don't defend what Rojas did. It is more about whether the feds overreached with their wire fraud charge..

Have at it.

Here's my POV versus yours.

... If Paulick and others believe the states have proven themselves incapable of standing up to the horsemen, there are plenty of steps they can take before settling on creative federal prosecution. For one thing they could get people on racing commissions who know what they are doing, spend a lot more time on proactive enforcement of the rules, and don’t have close personal relationships with the people they are supposed to regulate. But you can be assured the Murray Rojas situation could never have proliferated if the stewards and the racing commission had been more vigilant. Pennsylvania is as much to blame for the involvement of the feds as the problem trainers are.

If the feds are the answer, then change the laws to put them in charge, but until then, how about we try to make the current system work the way it is supposed to.

The State of Pennsylvania wasn't doing anything about it and "honest" horse players have been getting ripped off apparently for years. So, I applaud the FBI for stepping in. The jury was just made up with a bunch of dumb s....s.

http://halveyonhorseracing.com/

... As the Paulick Report previously reported, the National Horsemen's Benevolent and Protective Association in April 2016 formed the National Thoroughbred Owners & Trainers Legal Defense Fund Foundation, Inc. The fund is helping pay attorney fees for Rojas, who pleaded not guilty to the federal charges against her.

Eric Hamelback, CEO of the National HBPA, :1: previously declined to discuss the legal defense fund or the Rojas case with the Paulick Report, referring all questions to the National HBPA's attorney. He then said in a subsequent radio interview that our reporting on the legal defense fund was “one-sided.”

:2: He also said in the radio interview that the National HBPA is not necessarily defending Rojas but trying to protect other horsemen from a possible precedent-setting case in which violations of state regulatory rules on medication could be considered a federal crime – not just in Pennsylvania, but in any racing state. ...

:1: It appears Paulick did attempt to get the HBPA's side but they declined to discuss versus what you've indicated in your blog. But, then he did :2: which had nothing to do with wire fraud versus what he has told you.

Has this person been untruthful with you?

Or, is just full of ....

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/pennsylvania-fbi-agent-trainer/

This link above was provided on here in a "breaking news" thread from March 2017.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136859

[cj]

My opinion on the Murray Rojas decision is posted at halveyonhorseracing.com

And before anyone takes a shot, I don't defend what Rojas did. It is more about whether the feds overreached with their wire fraud charge..

Have at it.

As a horseplayer, I personally don't care if the feds overreached. They should over over reach where rampant cheating is going on. As big a loser as horseplayers are in this mess, it is even worse for the poor, helpless horses. I hope some day people like Rojas and Beattie are treated as poorly as they treated their horses.

[thaskalos]

BRING IN THE FEDS...I say. As far as I am concerned, the industry has proven to be totally unwilling to police its game in an efficient manner...and there is no reason to believe that things can get done more efficiently at the "state level".

In the sorry state that the game currently finds itself...the most important thing is to get the cheaters out of the game, and into the penal system, as quickly as possible. And, if this requires the Feds to step in...then I am all for it. :ThmbUp:

[thaskalos]

I have a blog piece coming out on the Rojas case and HBPA tomorrow, but the short story is that HBPA's financial support of Rojas defense team had to do with the fact that they believed the wire fraud charge was an overreach by the federal prosecutor. This was a lot less about Rojas' violations than it was about where she should have been prosecuted.

The feds managed to come up with the wire fraud charge because the checks used to pay out the purses were drawn on an out of state bank. If it is in fact the case that a medication violation can be considered wire fraud as long as the payment check came from an out of state bank, then the feds had essentially created a new precedent for wire fraud, and I'm not sure giving the feds that kind of power would have been good for racing in the long run. Even if you thought Rojas was guilty as sin, the question of whether you should use the sledgehammer of the federal government to get her is pertinent. This is most likely a case where the state should have been the appropriate enforcing authority, not the feds.

Whether or not you believe the current group of racing regulators in PA is doing a great or poor job, the philosophical question of who should have jurisdiction in the case of medication violations, even for a serial violator, is worth discussing. If the problem is the existing power structure, the first fix should be to repair any structural or personnel problems at the state. But I think you have to have no reason to believe the problem is repairable at the state level before bringing in the feds.

Has the HBPA declared that the charges against Rojas are "legitimate"...and that only the "overreach by the federal prosecutor" is what they are protesting against?

[proximity]

(per equibase) no scratch or trainer change on huntstown in the 8th?

[Jeff P]

I would make the argument that the FBI did not go far enough.

All of the trial coverage that I've read says that the charges of wire fraud were based on purse monies paid out across state lines.

Once federal prosecutors realized they had uncovered a pattern of rampant cheating in Pennsylvania:

Did they somehow think that BETTORS who wagered on Pennsylvania races across state lines had not been defrauded?

Did it not occur to them to bring at least one horseplayer to the witness stand whose ADW account showed multiple win bets with second place finishes in races that were won by horses trained by Rojas or Beattie?

I have a hard time believing that no wire fraud actually took place.



-jp

.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Has the HBPA declared that the charges against Rojas are "legitimate"...and that only the "overreach by the federal prosecutor" is what they are protesting against?

HBPA simply said there is a process in place for handling medication overages and that should have been used to prosecute Rojas. It is up to Pennsylvania to decide which charges are legitimate.

But yes, according to Eric Hamelback, the issue for HBPA was the federal overreach.

[Ray Paulick]

whodoyoulike is correct that Hamelback had declined to discuss the Legal Defense Fund or Rojas case with me, referring me to the National HBPA legal counsel when I broke the story on this in February.

At the trial last week, among the people I spoke with was Todd Mostoller, executive director of the Pennsylvania HBPA. Here is his explanation for using HBPA money to pay for the Rojas defense (not that I buy it):

<<<During a break in the proceedings last Tuesday, Todd Mostoller, the Pennsylvania HBPA's executive director, told me his organization helped pay for the defense over a concern that the next time a trainer gets a bad test for a minor overage of a therapeutic drug, he or she will wind up in federal court facing a felony charge.>>>

Does anyone recall, in the wake of trainer Gregory Martin's 2005 guilty plea to federal wire fraud charges (in connection to milk shaking A One Rocket) how many trainers were hauled in to federal court for alleged felonies because of "overage of Ranitidine? Overage of phenylbutazone?")?

None, right? Why should it be any different this time around.

I think the Enablers Club would happily welcome Rich Halvey as a member!

[HalvOnHorseracing]

I would make the argument that the FBI did not go far enough.

All of the trial coverage that I've read says that the charges of wire fraud were based on purse monies paid out across state lines.

Once federal prosecutors realized they had uncovered a pattern of rampant cheating in Pennsylvania:

Did they somehow think that BETTORS who wagered on Pennsylvania races across state lines had not been defrauded?

Did it not occur to them to bring at least one horseplayer to the witness stand whose ADW account showed multiple win bets with second place finishes in races that were won by horses trained by Rojas or Beattie?

I have a hard time believing that no wire fraud actually took place.



-jp

.

I said that the checks used to pay purses were drawn from out of state banks and that is how the feds came up with wire fraud.

I'm not an attorney, so I can't make a legal argument for or against wire fraud, but I don't believe it was the appropriate way to prosecute Rojas. The feds couldn't make a jury believe it either.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Does anyone recall, in the wake of trainer Gregory Martin's 2005 guilty plea to federal wire fraud charges (in connection to milk shaking A One Rocket) how many trainers were hauled in to federal court for alleged felonies because of "overage of Ranitidine? Overage of phenylbutazone?")?

None, right? Why should it be any different this time around.

I think the Enablers Club would happily welcome Rich Halvey as a member!

The case involving Gregory Martin was really about a wide-ranging conspiracy to fix races, even if Martin's actual part was to milkshake horses. Martin was threatened with a potential five years in prison and a $250,000 fine, and chose to plead guilty to conspiracy to commit wire fraud so he could wind up with two years probation and six months home confinement. I wouldn't call the two cases exactly the same.

There are those who believe using the weight of the federal government to prosecute any trainer who violates a standard is a good thing because the states, like Pennsylvania, haven't done a good enough job of rooting out the bad actors, but I would say believing the feds should only be involved in widespread, interstate conspiracies hardly makes one an enabler.

Trusting the feds to be wise about when to bring the crushing resources of the federal government against a trainer doesn't work for me. And that has nothing to do with whether Murray Rojas was a serial cheater. It is simply a recognition that she should have been prosecuted and punished, if she was found guilty, under state law.

[cj]

...And that has nothing to do with whether Murray Rojas was a serial cheater...

You aren't convinced?

[whodoyoulike]

...

Trusting the feds to be wise about when to bring the crushing resources of the federal government against a trainer doesn't work for me. And that has nothing to do with whether Murray Rojas was a serial cheater. It is simply a recognition that she should have been prosecuted and punished, if she was found guilty, under state law.

Crushing resources??

Didn't the FBI first get involved over 5 years ago?

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Crushing resources??

Didn't the FBI first get involved over 5 years ago?

Yes, crushing resources. No regular individual has the equivalent resources to fight them. When they got involved is irrelevant to the point.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

You aren't convinced?

In my article I said, "Frankly, given all the testimony, something stunk over at the Rojas barn..." I also didn't defend anything she did to be indicted in the first place. I actually think the misbranding charge was a little odd for giving illegal raceday medication, but I think the message the jury was sending was, that's what they gave us, she did it, so we're going to convict. I never had an issue with prosecuting Rojas - in the right venue and with the right charge.

[thaskalos]

In my article I said, "Frankly, given all the testimony, something stunk over at the Rojas barn..." I also didn't defend anything she did to be indicted in the first place. I actually think the misbranding charge was a little odd for giving illegal raceday medication, but I think the message the jury was sending was, that's what they gave us, she did it, so we're going to convict. I never had an issue with prosecuting Rojas - in the right venue and with the right charge.

A master of the understatement...:)

[Niko]

I'm a bit ignorant here but I'm still waiting for the day they'll track a barn and charge them with race fixing - betting on races when they can "prove" the trainer or stable bet on their horses and the vet bills were higher and when they didn't. It'll never happen but fun to dream about. As the saying goes - if you're not cheating, you're not trying. Only difference in horse racing is that you're betting vs your customers. I guess it's a good business model - worked so far?

[TonyK@HSH]

(per equibase) no scratch or trainer change on huntstown in the 8th?

Prox-

Huntstown was scratched

[Track Phantom]

.... because the states, like Pennsylvania, haven't done a good enough job of rooting out the bad actors....
A jury in United States District Court in Harrisburg, Pa., has convicted Thoroughbred trainer Murray Rojas on 14 of 21 counts ...involve races run at Penn National from 2009 to 2013.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

A jury in United States District Court in Harrisburg, Pa., has convicted Thoroughbred trainer Murray Rojas on 14 of 21 counts ...involve races run at Penn National from 2009 to 2013.

I think you took a phrase out of context. Read the whole sentence

There are those who believe using the weight of the federal government to prosecute any trainer who violates a standard is a good thing because the states, like Pennsylvania, haven't done a good enough job of rooting out the bad actors, but I would say believing the feds should only be involved in widespread, interstate conspiracies hardly makes one an enabler.


It was about people believing federal intervention is necessary because THEY don't believe the states are doing a good enough job.

[thaskalos]

I think you took a phrase out of context. Read the whole sentence

There are those who believe using the weight of the federal government to prosecute any trainer who violates a standard is a good thing because the states, like Pennsylvania, haven't done a good enough job of rooting out the bad actors, but I would say believing the feds should only be involved in widespread, interstate conspiracies hardly makes one an enabler.


It was about people believing federal intervention is necessary because THEY don't believe the states are doing a good enough job.

ARE the states "doing a good enough job"?

[cj]

ARE the states "doing a good enough job"?

The shenanigan's that went on the other day at Delaware, Gulfstream and Finger Lakes showed the weakness of state regulation in my opinion. In isolation, there is suspicious activity at all three tracks. But when you put them all together, it looks REALLY bad. But none of the states will bother looking into any of the races, guaranteed.

[Track Phantom]

I wonder what would have to happen for these people to take notice. I also wonder if there would be an investigation if the pools weren't parimutal and the track had to pay the winners. They would have the proper policing to protect their interests. However, when the protection only considers degenerate horseplayers, who gives a shit (says them)?

[Track Phantom]

ARE the states "doing a good enough job"?
Of course they're not. It was my point to Halving. These people cheated for, not years, but decades, at Penn. But, sit tight, the states are getting ready to do something.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

ARE the states "doing a good enough job"?

If we're talking about enforcement of drug/medication rules, no I don't think the states are doing a good enough job. In the same regard, I'm not sure the feds would do any better. I think there are a few glaring problems. One, they don't have the right people in critical positions. Two, they don't have enough resources for a proper enforcement program. Three, the resources they do have aren't always being spent in the best way. I don't think the feds would have a better clue or better resources unless they were willing to spend their own money instead of relying on the take for funding.

The problems of many jurisdictions start right at the top. The governor and the legislature could care less about horseracing and they wind up appointing unqualified cronies to the racing commission in too many cases. If it was the state welfare department in PA that essentially had the kind of problems we saw at Penn National, everyone would be up in arms, but since it is the racetrack, who really cares. It barely makes the mainstream news.

The answer is for the states to start caring and demanding the tracks start running first-rate operations. Until then, it doesn't matter who is in charge.

[thaskalos]

I wonder what would have to happen for these people to take notice. I also wonder if there would be an investigation if the pools weren't parimutal and the track had to pay the winners. They would have the proper policing to protect their interests. However, when the protection only considers degenerate horseplayers, who gives a shit (says them)?

IMO...you either clean up a game, and call it a "sport"...or you let it remain shady, and call it "entertainment". It seems to me that the horseracing industry has chosen the latter, rather than the former.

[cj]

If we're talking about enforcement of drug/medication rules, no I don't think the states are doing a good enough job. In the same regard, I'm not sure the feds would do any better. I think there are a few glaring problems. One, they don't have the right people in critical positions. Two, they don't have enough resources for a proper enforcement program. Three, the resources they do have aren't always being spent in the best way. I don't think the feds would have a better clue or better resources unless they were willing to spend their own money instead of relying on the take for funding.

The problems of many jurisdictions start right at the top. The governor and the legislature could care less about horseracing and they wind up appointing unqualified cronies to the racing commission in too many cases. If it was the state welfare department in PA that essentially had the kind of problems we saw at Penn National, everyone would be up in arms, but since it is the racetrack, who really cares. It barely makes the mainstream news.

The answer is for the states to start caring and demanding the tracks start running first-rate operations. Until then, it doesn't matter who is in charge.

Not having enough resources could be remedied. Divert some of the slots money that goes to purses to drug enforcement. The big purses haven't made the racing any better, and in most cases worse. You are correct in that you still need competent people in place to use the resources wisely. But money shouldn't be a problem.

[Afleet]

Stephanie Beattie said almost every trainer was cheating. Why isn't she giving up the names? Why are the prosecutors not getting this information out of her? She needs to go to prison if she doesn't give up the names.

[whodoyoulike]

Crushing resources??

Didn't the FBI first get involved over 5 years ago?


Yes, crushing resources. No regular individual has the equivalent resources to fight them. When they got involved is irrelevant to the point.

Maybe you'd be willing to look at her situation another way.

I have no problem of an organization providing a Defense Fund for one of their members as long as these individuals haven't violated the established and known rules. But, when the individuals admits violating these rules or it becomes apparent this is what has occurred THEN these individuals have decided to incur their own Defense Fund and, if they don't have adequate funds that's their problem.

Now, once it became apparent to this organization (NHBPA) that she was cheating all the bettors, owners, jockeys and other trainers (basically everybody) should've admitted they were WRONG and dropped her immediately.

But, they didn't do this and doesn't deserve any respect because of it.

NHBPA .... the PA stands for Protective Association?? Just who are they protecting?

Penn is still not off the hook by only banning the two trainers and hopefully the vets IMO. They should provide info on what they intend to do to remedy this apparent widespread cheating that has been brought up.

And, at the very least thank Michael Gill.

Maybe, name a race after him and offer free parking, admission and popcorn on that day.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Maybe you'd be willing to look at her situation another way.

I have no problem of an organization providing a Defense Fund for one of their members as long as these individuals haven't violated the established and known rules. But, when the individuals admits violating these rules or it becomes apparent this is what has occurred THEN these individuals have decided to incur their own Defense Fund and, if they don't have adequate funds that's their problem.

Now, once it became apparent to this organization (NHBPA) that she was cheating all the bettors, owners, jockeys and other trainers (basically everybody) should've admitted they were WRONG and dropped her immediately.

But, they didn't do this and doesn't deserve any respect because of it.

NHBPA .... the PA stands for Protective Association?? Just who are they protecting?

Penn is still not off the hook by only banning the two trainers and hopefully the vets IMO. They should provide info on what they intend to do to remedy this apparent widespread cheating that has been brought up.

And, at the very least thank Michael Gill.

Maybe, name a race after him and offer free parking, admission and popcorn on that day.

It's a matter of perspective. How many trainers who violate a medication threshold get money from the HBPA defense fund? I actually haven't done a story where a trainer got funding for his defense from HBPA. I've known a few trainers who about went broke fighting a charge, and that was only at the state level.

It was apparent to everyone that she was a serial violator, but that isn't why she got the money. You can disagree, but as I've said it was a matter of getting charged with a federal felony for giving horses medication on race day and having the horseman's association disagree with that heavy of a charge. I believe that if she had been charged with medication violations by the state and had hearings at the racing commission, she wouldn't have gotten a penny.

They weren't defending what she did with her horses. They were defending her right to be adjudicated under state racing rules and not the feds. The support wasn't about believing that Murray Rojas was right, and you can disagree that they were right to help fight what they saw as federal overreach, but I can certainly understand there was a bigger picture for all the horsemen and that is why HBPA supported the defense.

However, I couldn't agree more that Penn is on the hook to get to the bottom of Beattie's accusations that 95% of the trainers were cheating. The fact that the vets took plea deals shouldn't let them off from being fully dealt with by the state.

[onefast99]

It's a matter of perspective. How many trainers who violate a medication threshold get money from the HBPA defense fund? I actually haven't done a story where a trainer got funding for his defense from HBPA. I've known a few trainers who about went broke fighting a charge, and that was only at the state level.

It was apparent to everyone that she was a serial violator, but that isn't why she got the money. You can disagree, but as I've said it was a matter of getting charged with a federal felony for giving horses medication on race day and having the horseman's association disagree with that heavy of a charge. I believe that if she had been charged with medication violations by the state and had hearings at the racing commission, she wouldn't have gotten a penny.

They weren't defending what she did with her horses. They were defending her right to be adjudicated under state racing rules and not the feds. The support wasn't about believing that Murray Rojas was right, and you can disagree that they were right to help fight what they saw as federal overreach, but I can certainly understand there was a bigger picture for all the horsemen and that is why HBPA supported the defense.

However, I couldn't agree more that Penn is on the hook to get to the bottom of Beattie's accusations that 95% of the trainers were cheating. The fact that the vets took plea deals shouldn't let them off from being fully dealt with by the state.How do you prove that 95% of the trainers were using illegal drugs? Beattie hated Rojas and if you think she will give up one name you don't know how cold blooded she is.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

[/B]How do you prove that 95% of the trainers were using illegal drugs? Beattie hated Rojas and if you think she will give up one name you don't know how cold blooded she is.

You can't have it both ways. Either Beattie names names or you assume what she said is bullshit.

[TonyK@HSH]

That was quite an accusation but the truth is that it would be very difficult for one trainer to know what another is doing. Assumptions can be made that when a vet recommends a plan of treatment to you, that he is doing the same to all his customers. That noted, a trainer could not be certain of the actions of other trainers. I cannot imagine the actual numbers would come close to 95%.

[thaskalos]

That was quite an accusation but the truth is that it would be very difficult for one trainer to know what another is doing. Assumptions can be made that when a vet recommends a plan of treatment to you, that he is doing the same to all his customers. That noted, a trainer could not be certain of the actions of other trainers. I cannot imagine the actual numbers would come close to 95%.

I agree. I think it's closer to 80%, myself.

[ReplayRandall]

I agree. I think it's closer to 80%, myself.

What's wrong Thask, bored out of your mind lately?...:p

[thaskalos]

What's wrong Thask, bored out of your mind lately?...:p

How did you guess? I am so bored...I am actually betting the races at Presque Isle.

[whodoyoulike]

That was quite an accusation but the truth is that it would be very difficult for one trainer to know what another is doing. Assumptions can be made that when a vet recommends a plan of treatment to you, that he is doing the same to all his customers. That noted, a trainer could not be certain of the actions of other trainers. I cannot imagine the actual numbers would come close to 95%.

I don't know what the actual % is at Penn. But, there were four vets identified and charged doing this for Rojas. Questions which should be asked are:

:1: Was she their only client which they were willing to risk violating the rules?

:2: How many other trainers current or past did these four vets have as clients?

:3: How many other vets who haven't been identified as yet who are current or past?

:4: How does one root them out?

:5: What is Penn going to do to prevent this in the immediate future because to implement new rules and standards in two years time may be too long?

I'm curious how this ruling is going to affect handle which I think was around $1/2 to $1 million per day when I looked awhile back.

[proximity]

let's be frank.

at 35% (+) for long stretches at multiple tracks very few trainers at penn national or anywhere were ever using what beattie and wells were.

the horses weren't fit?

she should have quite a business teaching trainers how to get them fit.