California Trainer speaks his mind

[Tom]

Peter Miller on ATR Monday,
"You can't have first rate racing with third rate stewards."
"California stewards are just incompetent."

Nice to hear trainers speak the truth now and then. :D

[dilanesp]

Well, since we have third rate racing right now I would say we needn't worry.

[RunForTheRoses]

Peter Miller on ATR Monday,
"You can't have first rate racing with third rate stewards."
"California stewards are just incompetent."

Nice to hear trainers speak the truth now and then. :D

Unfortunately that's the same brutha who didn't timely report a gelding in a race that gave a lone Pick 6 ticket a $891K score.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Peter Miller on ATR Monday,
"You can't have first rate racing with third rate stewards."
"California stewards are just incompetent."

Nice to hear trainers speak the truth now and then. :D

Peter was also mentioning the recent disqualification of :6:VENDING MACHINE for Friday's 1st race 6/09/17 at Santa Anita...have a look for yourself....I have to agree with Peter on this one..

I think the stewards should have left :6:VENDING MACHINE up...if anything, they might have DQ'ed :5:Mr HINX for drifting in....

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/race/race-results?startDate=6%2F9%2F2017&endDate=6%2F9%2F2017&trackLookupId=1663&type=AllRacing&statesBred=&searchStateBredPlacers=false
Scroll down to bottom of Bloodhorse page to find Race 1.

[oughtoh]

He also said on Roger Steins radio show that he did not know that the horse was a gelding. The day before he said he sent in the paperwork. Which one is right. How do you take care of a horse in your barn and not know that it was a gelding?

[dilanesp]

He also said on Roger Steins radio show that he did not know that the horse was a gelding. The day before he said he sent in the paperwork. Which one is right. How do you take care of a horse in your barn and not know that it was a gelding?

I guess he didn't look.

[cj]

Peter Miller on ATR Monday,
"You can't have first rate racing with third rate stewards."
"California stewards are just incompetent."

Nice to hear trainers speak the truth now and then. :D

Of course he's the same guy that "forgot" to inform the stewards his horse was gelded.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Which dept does a trainer notify when a horse in their care gets gelded....and from whom does the Daily Racing Form get this update from....?

The gelded symbol did not appear in the DRF, so there must be some middleman (at the Track...?) that logs this type of data somewhere....who logs this data and into what kind of database...?

[cj]

Fly to Mars was 3-1 M/L, blinkers off, bug boy on -7 lbs, and a bullet gate work ×31May Slr 5f ft :59© Hg 1/12. In addition, Peter was with owners Gary Barber at Belmont, watching Solid Wager run in the Metropolitan H. (Grade I), and Gary Hartunian winning with Roy H in a Grade-2 on Friday. So, Peter's asst. trainer was in charge of the barn's runners at Santa Anita on Friday and Saturday, if you wish to direct any blame on Fly to Mars who clearly figured.....Other than that, sure seems shady...:rolleyes:


The horse was gelded a long time ago, can't blame the assistant for that. Trainers are supposed to notify at the time, not a day or two before racing.

[dilanesp]

Fly to Mars was 3-1 M/L, blinkers off, bug boy on -7 lbs, and a bullet gate work ×31May Slr 5f ft :59© Hg 1/12. In addition, Peter was with owners Gary Barber at Belmont, watching Solid Wager run in the Metropolitan H. (Grade I), and Gary Hartunian winning with Roy H in a Grade-2 on Friday. So, Peter's asst. trainer was in charge of the barn's runners at Santa Anita on Friday and Saturday, if you wish to direct any blame on Fly to Mars who clearly figured.....Other than that, sure seems shady...:rolleyes:



I posted something similar the other day. I picked this horse the day before and posted the pick on the board. I had no inkling that anything untoward had happened to his testes. He was a totally logical winner.

But yes, I agree bettors should have been notified earlier.

[AltonKelsey]

On the entry form for any FULL horse , there should be a question that must be answered YES/NO.

This horse is on record as a Colt or Horse
Is this information correct? Y/N Initial Here ____

If answer is no , enter date of gelding. _______
If not sure , tell us why ______________


If you answer Yes , and it is a gelding, you are either a liar or an incompetent.

Seems that and a $5000 fine would be sufficient to make these as rare as Halley's comet

Edit: Seems getting the wording on this would take some work. Let the very competent stewards rack their brains.
http://clickamericana.com/wp-content/uploads/halleys-comet-1908-article.png



https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj1-P6am7zUAhUBeT4KHVSfBaQQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fclickamericana.com%2Fmedia%2Fnews papers%2Fhalleys-comet-rushes-earthward-again-1908&psig=AFQjCNG7K0dLWa5RrOBuSBy5ZF42BrHujg&ust=1497491086631152

[ReplayRandall]

The horse was gelded a long time ago, can't blame the assistant for that. Trainers are supposed to notify at the time, not a day or two before racing.
Disagree, that's the Asst. trainer's responsibility, and if it's not, then Peter's not delegating properly and is simply doing too much, thus causing the missing info.....Either way, much to do about nothing, the horse clearly figured.

[cj]

Disagree, that's the Asst. trainer's responsibility, and if it's not, then Peter's not delegating properly and is simply doing too much, thus causing the missing info.....Either way, much to do about nothing, the horse clearly figured.

Figured is relative, the information has value.

[VigorsTheGrey]

I posted something similar the other day. I picked this horse the day before and posted the pick on the board. I had no inkling that anything untoward had happened to his testes. He was a totally logical winner.

But yes, I agree bettors should have been notified earlier.

Agree with you...It has only been a few years that bettors have been notified at all regarding recent "geldings"...I think.... or put this data into the Form anyway...stuff like this is bound to happen sometimes, humans are not perfect by any means...

Trainers have these kind of "knowledge/ intention advantages all the time...

There is little doubt in most peoples' mind that they were intending to win here anyway, though it would have been better to have the info on the Form

[ReplayRandall]

Figured is relative, the information has value.

What?.....Conspiracy value? I see nothing here, but you do have a valid point...;)

[cj]

What?.....Conspiracy value? I see nothing here, but you do have a valid point...;)

I mean of course the horse figured, but did he figure at 6-1, 4-1, 2-1, 7-5? You get my point I'm sure. :)

[Fager Fan]

Disagree, that's the Asst. trainer's responsibility, and if it's not, then Peter's not delegating properly and is simply doing too much, thus causing the missing info.....Either way, much to do about nothing, the horse clearly figured.

You base this on what? The assistant trainer's responsibilities are whatever the trainers want from them. Entries are usually made by the trainers, therefore you would think is the trainers responsibility.

[Tom]

The horse was gelded a long time ago, can't blame the assistant for that. Trainers are supposed to notify at the time, not a day or two before racing.

I did not know about all of this - I don't follow California racing.
But I caught his comments on ATR and thought it was refreshing to hear.
As far as notifying, make a rule, no horse can run for 30 days AFTER the official notification. This crap ain't rocket science.
Of course, some track would mis-time the 30 days. :bang:

[cj]

I did not know about all of this - I don't follow California racing.
But I caught his comments on ATR and thought it was refreshing to hear.
As far as notifying, make a rule, no horse can run for 30 days AFTER the official notification. This crap ain't rocket science.
Of course, some track would mis-time the 30 days. :bang:

That is a good idea. Thirty days is probably two long, but 15 would be fine.

[Tom]

I was just thinking how long off I would need if it were me!:eek:


Seriously tracks have no clue who their customers are and no one at the tracks is looking out for them. At best, they are looking out for what THEY think their customer want.

It's racing - and they can't do times or important health/fitness events in the racers.

But they have the HATS covered nicely!

[Andy Asaro]

Positive they're going to do the scratch or run for purse money only thing if a FTG isn't announced at least 30 minutes prior to first post.

I would lean to scratch instead of purse money only because a scratched FTG will likely run back quickly while a purse money only FTG may not come back for a month or two. From a handle/revenue perspective think the scratch is better.

[oughtoh]

If they let the horse run for purse money only, they should fine the trainer 10% of the purse no matter if the horse wins or not. They might stop them. $500 fines will not stop anyone.

[cj]

Positive they're going to do the scratch or run for purse money only thing if a FTG isn't announced at least 30 minutes prior to first post.

I would lean to scratch instead of purse money only because a scratched FTG will likely run back quickly while a purse money only FTG may not come back for a month or two. From a handle/revenue perspective think the scratch is better.'

IMO running for purse money only is a bad idea. You are rewarding the trainer for not doing what he is supposed to do. What is wrong with Tom's idea? All geldings are ineligible to race for two weeks from the time of notification. That basically solves the whole issue and gives trainers an incentive to report it.

[Andy Asaro]

'

IMO running for purse money only is a bad idea. You are rewarding the trainer for not doing what he is supposed to do. What is wrong with Tom's idea? All geldings are ineligible to race for two weeks from the time of notification. That basically solves the whole issue and gives trainers an incentive to report it.

They won't do that. Just from what I've seen a lot of guys don't announce when the gelding is actually done they wait till entry time for whatever reason. The reason for it to be like it was on Sunday was that the CTT (Trainers organization) and Bo Derek thought they knew best.

[cj]

They won't do that. Just from what I've seen a lot of guys don't announce when the gelding is actually done they wait till entry time for whatever reason. The reason for it to be like it was on Sunday was that the CTT (Trainers organization) and Bo Derek thought they knew best.

That is the point though, it would force them to do it right. The whole "first time gelding" thing is a joke right now. It isn't just in California, it is everywhere. There is no way to see it in the PPs and have any confidence you know when the horse was was gelded.

[JustRalph]

Anybody got stone cold good numbers on 1st time geldings actual improvement rate? Is it worth all this hoo haw?

[cj]

Anybody got stone cold good numbers on 1st time geldings actual improvement rate? Is it worth all this hoo haw?

It is reported so poorly it is impossible to run a query with any confidence.

[cj]

Here is an example...was this horse gelded before or after the last race in his PPs? There is no way to know.

[AndyC]

Anybody got stone cold good numbers on 1st time geldings actual improvement rate? Is it worth all this hoo haw?

A logical question for sure, however the perception of impropriety will never be eliminated.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

I don't have any numbers on this, but it seems to me that often new geldings come back at lower levels than when they were racing as colts, and so if their win percentage seems pretty good, that may be as much of an explanation as the "ultimate equipment change." Once the horse is gelded the owner is sending the message, this horse isn't going to be worth anything as breeding stock, and if you want to take him off my hands, go ahead. After gelding it's just a question of finding the winning level for the horse - nothing left to prove in stakes company.

[VigorsTheGrey]

If you clip a horse and you see no change, do you ever feel like you didn't do right by the horse...just wondering....

[whodoyoulike]

I was just thinking how long off I would need if it were me!:eek: ...

I'd like to know .... Who originally thought of this?

[JustRalph]

It is reported so poorly it is impossible to run a query with any confidence.


Makes sense. Thanks

[Fager Fan]

If you clip a horse and you see no change, do you ever feel like you didn't do right by the horse...just wondering....

Probably the opposite. He's going to have to be gelded at some point anyway, and the earlier the better regarding his manners.