Derby Wars

[Gander36]

I noticed they have NO tournaments listed for tomorrow. Are they going out of business? Stronach suit really hurt them.

[ReplayRandall]

I noticed they have NO tournaments listed for tomorrow. Are they going out of business? Stronach suit really hurt them.

And yet horsetourneys.com has plenty of tourneys listed for tomorrow....

[Dahoss9698]

And yet horsetourneys.com has plenty of tourneys listed for tomorrow....

It's very strange the difference between the two sites lately. I've always played more at Horsetourneys anyway, but with all of the nonsense going on, not even a statement from Derbywars as track by track suddenly disappears. At least Horsetourneys has kept us in the loop.

I withdrew all the money in my account at Derbywars last week just in case.

[Mulerider]

I sent DW a message via chat a few minutes ago asking about tomorrow's tournaments. Took a few minutes to get a response, but here it is, for what it's worth:

Reply from Christopher
Hey ____,
Nothing set yet. We are working on finalizing agreements and we be adding more tracks this week.
1min. ago

I resisted the urge to reply that I be waiting.

I used to play DW exclusively but tried Horsetourneys several months ago and like it much better. HT is just about all I play now.

[Mulerider]

Update: DerbyWars has posted a one-sentence notice on its homepage saying "DerbyWars games to resume on Wednesday!"

What are the chances that if the games do indeed return, that there will be new game formats whereby the entry fees will reflect a higher takeout to cover any "agreements" DW has negotiated with tracks?

[Gander36]

Update: DerbyWars has posted a one-sentence notice on its homepage saying "DerbyWars games to resume on Wednesday!"

What are the chances that if the games do indeed return, that there will be new game formats whereby the entry fees will reflect a higher takeout to cover any "agreements" DW has negotiated with tracks?
I just checked their website. There were a few Belmont games posted, but they were points games, not real money.

[Afleet]

I like Derby Wars format better than Horsetourneys. Many HT contests are 5 players only. Derbywars has 17-25 players which I find more interesting w/bigger purses

[Afleet]

I just checked their website. There were a few Belmont games posted, but they were points games, not real money.

I contacted them directly this week and they said it is almost completely resolved w/all the tracks

[Gander36]

I just saw on Derby Wars they have 2 Belmont games tomorrow that require points to enter, but pay out cash! Interesting. Perhaps they are going to let their clients use their points for cash games as a loss leader to keep them as clients until its all resolved?

[Mulerider]

Perhaps they are going to let their clients use their points for cash games as a loss leader to keep them as clients until its all resolved?

Derby Wars has made no attempt whatsoever to explain its situation and future intentions to its customers; instead, the site just went dark, so to speak, after Sunday. Communication would be easy enough...either on the site's blog or by email. Absent any explanation, I suspect that at this point its customers -- many of whom may not be familiar with the legal problems -- are more concerned with the solvency of their cash accounts than their points balances. I hope DW can put the legal issues behind them and move forward. Although most of my play now is at HorseTourneys, it's good to have alternatives.

[cj]

Derby Wars has made no attempt whatsoever to explain its situation and future intentions to its customers; instead, the site just went dark, so to speak, after Sunday. Communication would be easy enough...either on the site's blog or by email. Absent any explanation, I suspect that at this point its customers -- many of whom may not be familiar with the legal problems -- are more concerned with the solvency of their cash accounts than their points balances. I hope DW can put the legal issues behind them and move forward. Although most of my play now is at HorseTourneys, it's good to have alternatives.

I got an email yesterday:

Hi Craig,

I wanted to update you on the games on DerbyWars.

We are currently in the final stages of resolving of our lawsuit with the Stronach Group. Going forward, we are only going to be working with tracks where we have an agreement with. We are currently in the process of reaching out to tracks and establishing those agreements. We expect to be adding Belmont and other tracks later this week.

DerbyWars has had several track agreements in the past, and we look forward to working with even more tracks in the future. Race tracks are seeing the value that contests bring to players, and in turn partnering with tracks will only help to introduce more players to contests.

We will keep you posted on more updates as they become available.

Thanks everyone for all your support!

Mark

DerbyWars

[Mulerider]

I got an email yesterday:

If that's the case CJ, feel free to delete my earlier post. That is good news. But I feel slighted, not having received a copy of that! I know DW has my email address, because I'm always receiving notifications of upcoming contests. (And notifications that I didn't win my latest tournament, lol.)


Mule

[Zaf]

I just saw on Derby Wars they have 2 Belmont games tomorrow that require points to enter, but pay out cash! Interesting. Perhaps they are going to let their clients use their points for cash games as a loss leader to keep them as clients until its all resolved?

Hey thanks for the heads up :headbanger:

Z

[cj]

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/derby-wars-pay-500000-stronach-group-comply-interstate-horseracing-act-settle-lawsuit/

[ReplayRandall]

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/derby-wars-pay-500000-stronach-group-comply-interstate-horseracing-act-settle-lawsuit/

And yet, DerbyWars' only track for tomorrow is Hawthorne?......This must be some kind of joke, right??.....I'm done, as are a lot of other tourney players, with DerbyWars, you're not siphoning the $500K off of me.

[Andy Asaro]

http://www.drf.com/news/stronach-group-derby-wars-reach-settlement

Excerpt:

The settlement will defuse a dispute between the two sides that resulted in The Stronach Group filing a lawsuit against Derby Wars in early 2015 alleging that the company had violated provisions of the Interstate Horseracing Act, a 1978 federal law, by using races from The Stronach Group tracks in online tournaments without the company’s approval. It also will allow both sides to avoid a trial that was scheduled to start later this month.

The Stronach Group had won a major victory and bargaining point against Derby Wars in May, when a judge ruled that Derby Wars should be considered an offtrack betting outlet and was subject to the terms of the Interstate Hosreracing Act, which forms the regulatory backbone for interstate simulcasting. That act requires tracks, their horsemen, and racing commissions to approve simulcasts before they can be offered for wagering by an out-of-state site.
=======================

Anyone know if the Interstate Horse Racing Act has ever been updated since 1978?

[JustRalph]

Some settlement. They pay out 500k and Stronach basically is a second version of "the house"

And Stronach gets to set the price.

Why didn't Stronach just buy the company?

[Immanuel Kant]

Some settlement. They pay out 500k and Stronach basically is a second version of "the house"

And Stronach gets to set the price.

Why didn't Stronach just buy the company?


My guess is that he did offer to buy the company........at 10 cents on the dollar

[cato]

My experience with Derby Wars has been great for three years and I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for being tight lipped when it comes to managing litigation. It looks like they received an adverse ruling a few months ago that forced them into settlement negotiations that were only recently concluded. They probably received a daily message from their attorneys with a reminder to NOT TALK ABOUT PENDING LITIGATION! So there was a week or two where we did not know exactly what was going on. Now we do.

They will be offering limited games for the immediate future while they are negotiating with tracks to come up with an agreement with regard to a split of revenues (I probably did not word that correctly but it's close enough) and as they reach those agreements they will add games including those tracks.
So the good news is that if you are tired of games covering only BEL and GP and SA (etc), I believe the universe of games will be offered for more tracks (and I assume they will continue with the major tracks).

So remain calm. It's going to work out.

Like I said earlier I've had a great experience with them, they have been responsive to emails, complaints and suggestions over the years and they seem to be guys who love the business and are trying to do the right thing. They drew the s**t sandwich in being sued and then getting a bad court ruling - but it appears they have survived and will be okay.

So I will likely be more supportive when they start rolling games out again. I hope some of you who are upset with them will re-consider.

Best, Frank

[Mulerider]

Some settlement. They pay out 500k and Stronach basically is a second version of "the house"

And Stronach gets to set the price.

Why didn't Stronach just buy the company?

From the Paulick Report article:

"'We want to put a pricing model that works for both sides,' said Scott Daruty, president of Monarch Content Management, a division of The Stronach Group that handles simulcast matters for the company...'I don't think it will be more than half and it won't be less than a 30 or 40 percent (of a contest operator's takeout),' Daruty said in reference to how much the Stronach Group may seek in future negotiations with handicapping contest operators."


Only 30%-50+%? Sure, that pricing model will work for both sides. Good grief.

[Suffolk OTB]

Stronach probably wants the same return/piece of the takeout they get from a normal ADW.

It looks like Derby Wars "takeout" is around 7-8% on two player games and ~15% on multiplayer games. That will probably need to go up in order to get a pricing model more in line with an ADW.

Unless Derby Wars is willing to give up their profits so that Stronach can make their profits, I'm guessing it might cost $12 instead of $11 to play a $20 one on one game in the future.

[toddbowker]

Anyone know if the Interstate Horse Racing Act has ever been updated since 1978?Yes, in 2000. That's when it was amended to specifically include bets taken between States by "telephone or other electronic media".

Essentially this was just clarifying that account wagering was allowed under the Act.

The Justice Department wasn't all that happy about it, but Clinton signed it anyway.

[Andy Asaro]

Yes, in 2000. That's when it was amended to specifically include bets taken between States by "telephone or other electronic media".

Essentially this was just clarifying that account wagering was allowed under the Act.

The Justice Department wasn't all that happy about it, but Clinton signed it anyway.

Thanks.

[trifecta]

I got an email today from Derby Wars with this message:

PLAYER STATE UPDATE

"With the recent ruling change, DerbyWars is now able to offer contests to residents of NY, AZ, WA, LA and IN. Let your friends know!"

[Jeff P]

bloodhorse.com article by Frank Angst | June 30th 2017

Several Tracks Reach Deals With Contest Site Derby Wars:
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/222343/several-tracks-reach-deals-with-contest-site-derby-wars

Horse racing contest site DerbyWars.com announced June 30 it reached partnership agreements with several tracks and racing associations that will allow the site to use those racing signals as part of its handicapping contests.

The agreement comes just over two weeks after Derby Wars owner Horse Racing Labs agreed to pay The Stronach Group at least $500,000 to resolve a lawsuit brought against the contest site, which had used signals from Stronach-owned tracks without permission or compensation.

On Friday Derby Wars said partnership agreements were reached with New York Racing Association, Monmouth Park, Meadowlands, Ellis Park, Kentucky Downs, Louisiana Downs, and Fairmount Park. The agreements include revenue-sharing with the tracks and horsemen for use of their races in contests at DerbyWars.com, as well as video and data sharing opportunities to enhance customer experience.


-jp

.

[ReplayRandall]

bloodhorse.com article by Frank Angst | June 30th 2017

Several Tracks Reach Deals With Contest Site Derby Wars:
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/222343/several-tracks-reach-deals-with-contest-site-derby-wars
-jp.

It's funny how Derby Wars reached partnership agreements with the New York Racing Association, Monmouth Park, Meadowlands, Ellis Park, Kentucky Downs, Louisiana Downs, and Fairmount Park, paid a $500K settlement, and YET none of those are Stronach-owned tracks......Hilarious..:lol::lol:

[davew]

I put in $100 and will see how long it lasts - I now am only going to play the $4.50 survivor games. I like picking horses to show rather than going for a 'price'.

[PointGiven]

I'll give them another shot starting in January 2018. I enjoyed it and did really well I thought the year I played. But it can be very aggravating. Always some clowns in the games.

[Afleet]

I'll give them another shot starting in January 2018. I enjoyed it and did really well I thought the year I played. But it can be very aggravating. Always some clowns in the games.

what did the clowns do to be labeled clowns?

[Lemon Drop Husker]

what did the clowns do to be labeled clowns?

Win

[PointGiven]

No. I haven't been here long , guess it will be short lived.

[Fox]

I like Derby Wars. I just wish the rake was a little less.

For the $100 tournaments, you put up $55 to profit $45.

I'd like to see it be risk $55 to profit $50 which would put it on par with typical -110 sports betting odds.

[PointGiven]

I like Derby Wars. I just wish the rake was a little less.

For the $100 tournaments, you put up $55 to profit $45.

I'd like to see it be risk $55 to profit $50 which would put it on par with typical -110 sports betting odds.

It is kinda wacky in spots. And some spots, and I'm glad they do offer, don't really understand why they bother. The 11 dollar head to head game. You each put in 11- prize is 20 bucks, they make 2. I guess it doesn't hurt them to run the program. And they put another up as soon as it fills. Get what you can I guess.

[Afleet]

I like Derby Wars. I just wish the rake was a little less.

For the $100 tournaments, you put up $55 to profit $45.

I'd like to see it be risk $55 to profit $50 which would put it on par with typical -110 sports betting odds.

you can thank stronach for increasing the take after he sued Derbywars prices went up

[Afleet]

I contacted Derbywars and they still don't have an agreement w/Oaklawn so probably won't be any contests there which sucks

[Afleet]

No Fairgrounds contests yesterday so it appears that CDI won't allow contests at their tracks(there were no CD contests at their fall meet . That sucks for people that don't play NY, CA, like me. Hitting contests has taken the sting out of losing for me on somedays. I lost on Derby day but won a contest to soften the blow. Derbywars has to be losing money overall since the stronach lawsuit.

[Afleet]

And yet, DerbyWars' only track for tomorrow is Hawthorne?......This must be some kind of joke, right??.....I'm done, as are a lot of other tourney players, with DerbyWars, you're not siphoning the $500K off of me.

I advised Derbywars to move operations offshore, but they were against my idea

[Fager Fan]

I advised Derbywars to move operations offshore, but they were against my idea

What does DerbyWars contribute to racing?

[Afleet]

What does DerbyWars contribute to racing?

creates interest in a dying sport

[Afleet]

What does DerbyWars contribute to racing?

what do drugs contribute to racing?

[JustRalph]

What does DerbyWars contribute to racing?

If u live in Texas.....it’s a nice way to play. I’ve only played a few times though

[Fager Fan]

creates interest in a dying sport

ADWs are already a sore spot for me, though not really their fault but the industry's. To say you suggested they move offshore gets zero respect.

[Fager Fan]

what do drugs contribute to racing?

The same as the price of tea in China?

[Afleet]

ADWs are already a sore spot for me, though not really their fault but the industry's. To say you suggested they move offshore gets zero respect.

Its business, why let someone strong arm you. KEE decided to steal more money from its customers, that was their business decision.

[Afleet]

What does DerbyWars contribute to racing?

What does collusion between KEE and CD to put KY Downs out of business, do for racing?

[soupman2]

Joined Derby Wars after I saw this thread. Won a few contests. After 2 months still playing with my original deposit. Losing interest though because of the dearth of flats. Too many harness contests of which I am not a fan.

[Fager Fan]

Its business, why let someone strong arm you. KEE decided to steal more money from its customers, that was their business decision.

You've got a real pissy attitude.

The cost of gas just went up. I had no idea that this was outright theft. Why don't you issue a complaint with the DA to charge the KEE execs with theft?

Not that this has anything to do with the leech DerbyWars.

[Jeff P]

You've got a real pissy attitude.

The cost of gas just went up. I had no idea that this was outright theft. Why don't you issue a complaint with the DA to charge the KEE execs with theft?

Not that this has anything to do with the leech DerbyWars.

Fager Fan,

You might want to rethink your opinion about Derby Wars.

Fyi, last time I checked:

Derby Wars actually reaches an agreement with each host track, signs a contract, and pays the host track for the right to offer contests/tournaments on the host track's races.


-jp

.

[Fager Fan]

Fager Fan,

You might want to rethink your opinion about Derby Wars.

Fyi, last time I checked:

Derby Wars actually reaches an agreement with each host track, signs a contract, and pays the host track for the right to offer contests/tournaments on the host track's races.


-jp

.

It's the tracks' fault racing is covered in leeches, but they're nonetheless leeches. When the split becomes reversed, then I'll not think as negatively of ADWs and how racing stupidly gives them a huge chunk of racing's revenue.