#4 in last at SA just announced FTG 18 mtp, wins and causes P6 Jackpot payout

[Andy Asaro]

And it takes the pool and the jackpot if it wins.

This is as shady as it gets IMO

[cj]

And it takes the pool and the jackpot if it wins.

This is as shady as it gets IMO

Like I said on Twitter, just no respect for bettors. Horse should be an immediate scratch.

[Andy Asaro]

https://twitter.com/racetrackandy/status/873703725885382656

[Andy Asaro]

$2 Pick-6 (6/9/9/1/2/4) Paid $891,568.80 (6OF6)

$2 Pick-6 (6/9/9/1/2/4) Paid $933.00 (5OF6)

https://twitter.com/racetrackandy/status/873708308816732160

[menifee]

This is outrageous on so many levels. I hope the p6 winner is not connected to the connections.

[oughtoh]

After hearing this and the inquiry in the first yesterday, I am done playing SA anymore at this meet.

[Andy Asaro]

State Vets should have noticed in pre race exam.

[SuperPickle]

The best part of this it's Peter Miller. It's trainer responsibility to divulge the horse was gelded. The rule is in California Trainers or owners must report a sex alteration on racetrack grounds to the racing office within 72 hours of the operation or face a $1,000 fine. If the operation is performed off-track, it has to be reported “at the time of the next entry of the horse to race.”

So if this shakes out as he didn't report it and he bitched and moaned about the DQ yesterday the stewards should give him days.

[Racetrack Playa]

chart says :4: is still a colt , :confused: go figure

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/instant.cgi?date=2017-06-10&track=SA&country=USA&race=11&type=inc&print=on

[cj]

chart says :4: is still a colt , :confused: go figure

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/instant.cgi?date=2017-06-10&track=SA&country=USA&race=11&type=inc&print=on

It was announced on track, it hasn't been updated in Equibase records yet.

[SuperPickle]

State Vets should have noticed in pre race exam.

No way. Not to you bore with the undercarriage of horses but you've got ridglings, you've got all sorts of young horses with one or or two not dropped and you've got ones with tiny testicles. Asking a vet to certify every horse as a horse is unfair.

How about trainers learned to fill out paperwork. Remember when all the Dutrows supporters talked about how half his violations were for paperwork? Ain't it funny how the guys who are notorious for sudden former reversal and winning off the claim suck at paperwork?

It's fascinating how Rich Dutrow, Ron Ellis, and Peter Miller are great trainers but awful at keeping records. So odd.

[Andy Asaro]

No way. Not to you bore with the undercarriage of horses but you've got ridglings, you've got all sorts of young horses with one or or two not dropped and you've got ones with tiny testicles. Asking a vet to certify every horse as a horse is unfair.

How about trainers learned to fill out paperwork. Remember when all the Dutrows supporters talked about how half his violations were for paperwork? Ain't it funny how the guys who are notorious for sudden former reversal and winning off the claim suck at paperwork?

It's fascinating how Rich Dutrow, Ron Ellis, and Peter Miller are great trainers but awful at keeping records. So odd.

5 years ago I argued that if they weren't announced as first time geldings at least 30 minutes before first post they should be scratched. CHRB chose handle over integrity and that was on display today.

[theiman]

Besides this being total BS, The question is, who told who, that this colt is now a gelding, and when?

Since it was known at the time of the announcement by Wrona, about 17-18 MTP, that there was a Jackpot ticket to the :4:, wouldnt the track have benefited if they scratched the horse?......or as per a Brad Free Tweet

https://twitter.com/BradFree1/status/873701436147642369

[Andy Asaro]

Besides this being total BS, The question is, who told who, that this colt is now a gelding, and when?

Since it was known at the time of the announcement by Wrona, about 17-18 MTP, that there was a Jackpot ticket to the :4:, wouldnt the track have benefited if they scratched the horse?......or as per a Brad Free Tweet

https://twitter.com/BradFree1/status/873701436147642369

Yes, if they scratched the jackpot would still be live. Nothing in rule stating that you can scratch in this situation.

[Andy Asaro]

http://www.drf.com/news/single-ticket-jackpot-payoff-891568-comes-controversy

Excerpt:

The winning ticket, which was purchased for $1,920 at Hollywood Park, was live to two runners – favorite Lucky With You and Fly to Mars. A win by Lucky With You would have triggered multiple pick-six payouts and allowed the single-ticket jackpot to carry; the winning bettor’s ticket was the only ticket that was live to Fly to Mars.

Excerpt:

Trainer Peter Miller, contacted by phone after the win by Fly to Mars, said the California-bred maiden had been gelded several months earlier.

“I thought we called it in when we cut him six months ago,” Miller said after the race. “It was an oversight.”

[Andy Asaro]

https://twitter.com/equinomics411/status/873732983563354113

[Jeff P]

Deja Vu All Over Again:
http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2011/12/56-newly-gelded-winner-in-california.html

Thursday, December 15, 2011

$56 Newly Gelded Winner in California Prompts Potential Rule Changes

Recently at Hollywood Park, a horse who was only reported gelded 30 minutes before post time (giving no chance for horizontal handicappers to change their tickets, or use the information) won, paying $56. According to the CHRB agenda (pdf) of today's meeting, this has been going on for some time.

Six years ago in 2011, horseplayers asked the CHRB for a rules change because it had became clear that failing to report first time geldings was being abused in the pools by those in the know.

If I recall correctly the CHRB told everybody that a rules change wasn't necessary - because now that they had been made aware of the problem:

They would clamp down.

Yeah, right.

Deja Vu All Over Again.


-jp

.

[Andy Asaro]

Deja Vu All Over Again:
http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2011/12/56-newly-gelded-winner-in-california.html



Six years ago in 2011, horseplayers asked the CHRB for a rules change because it had became clear that failing to report first time geldings was being abused in the pools by those in the know.

If I recall correctly the CHRB told everybody that a rules change wasn't necessary - because now that they had been made aware of the problem:

They would clamp down.

Yeah, right.

Deja Vu All Over Again.


-jp

.

True story. They didn't listen and were wrong once AGAIN.

[biggestal99]

And it takes the pool and the jackpot if it wins.

This is as shady as it gets IMO

Training lights out for return for a high percentage trainer, blinks off, trainer does really well for similar laid off horse. How many pick six large tickets would not use this horse gelded or not.

Seems like an easy use to me.

Allan

[Andy Asaro]

Training lights out for return for a high percentage trainer, blinks off, trainer does really well for similar laid off horse. How many pick six large tickets would not use this horse gelded or not.

Seems like an easy use to me.

Allan
Yes, it was very logical however more people may have used it and it may not have dispersed the jackpot pool.

[Andy Asaro]

https://twitter.com/equinomics411/status/873732983563354113

It was listed as a gelding in equibase as this was posted yesterday. Could be that the racing office screwed up??

[Andy Asaro]

https://twitter.com/racetrackandy/status/873918762856009728

[theiman]

It was listed as a gelding in equibase as this was posted yesterday. Could be that the racing office screwed up??

Andy,

Equibase shows it as a colt.

As of 06.11.17

Fly to Mars (CA)

TB, B, C, foaled February 20, 2014

http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=9673638&registry=T&rbt=TB

[Andy Asaro]

Andy,

Equibase shows it as a colt.

As of 06.11.17

Fly to Mars (CA)

TB, B, C, foaled February 20, 2014

http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=9673638&registry=T&rbt=TB

Saw that. Miller is on roger stein show right now. www.rogerstein.com

[Andy Asaro]

https://twitter.com/racetrackandy/status/873920061076942849

[theiman]

Miller just said you cant have 1st class racing with 3rd class stewards. He has hired a lawyer(this is regarding the DQ, not the gelding matter)

[theiman]

parts of a DRF Article

The controversy arose a half-hour before the race when Horse Identifier Jennifer Paige discovered Fly to Mars was a gelding, even though he was listed as a colt in the track program and past performances.

Paige immediately phoned the stewards, who said they were alerted as the horses were loading the gate for race 10. Stewards quickly investigated and learned the Peter Miller-trained Fly to Mars had in fact been gelded since his most recent start in June 2016.

He was a “first-time gelding,” a piece of information that most bettors consider to be a potentially significant handicapping factor.

Steward Scott Chaney said their first inclination was to declare Fly to Mars. “We contemplated scratching him, but there is nothing in the (California Horse Racing Board) rules that directs us to do that.”

The stewards’ interpretation of the rules was they did not have discretionary authority to scratch Fly to Mars, who won by a half-length. If he had been scratched, the single-ticket jackpot would have rolled to Sunday, regardless of which horse won.

None of the three stewards – Chaney, Grant Baker or Kim Sawyer – was aware Fly to Mars would trigger a single-ticket payout until learning the information from a reporter between races 10 and 11.

http://www.drf.com/news/single-ticket-jackpot-payoff-891568-comes-controversy

[Andy Asaro]

https://twitter.com/racetrackandy/status/873922079350968320

[Robert Fischer]

can you switch to blinkers with 18 mtp?

[Andy Asaro]

https://twitter.com/racetrackandy/status/873925453857161216

[Andy Asaro]

https://twitter.com/liamdbenson/status/873925732971536384

[Andy Asaro]

Archived show should be up sometime today. Strong interview by Roger Stein.

http://www.rogerstein.com/radio-shows.htm

[stlseeeek]

Ain't it funny how the guys who are notorious for sudden former reversal and winning off the claim suck at paperwork?

And they all have done a year suspension.

Interesting how many 65%+ off the claim trainers got popped and aren't in the 30% range no more.

[Andy Asaro]

Archived show should be up sometime today. Strong interview by Roger Stein.

http://www.rogerstein.com/radio-shows.htm

Archived show is now up. Must listen.

[oughtoh]

Very interesting interview that Roger Stein had with Peter Miller today on his show. It is up for people to listen to now.

[Andy Asaro]

https://twitter.com/rj112712/status/873967514396569600

[Andy Asaro]

Either way if a first time gelding is not reported at least 30 minutes prior to first post they should be scratched or run for purse money only.

Purse money only means that you lose a wagering interest and that costs handle and revenue not to mention that the gelding will probably not run back for a month or more.

If you scratch it’s likely that the gelding will run back in the next available spot.

[Andy Asaro]

https://twitter.com/RacingOnion/status/873724006465126402

[cj]

https://twitter.com/RacingOnion/status/873724006465126402

I know that guy, name is Meter Piller.

[SuperPickle]

Am I the only one totally amused that Miller keeps trashing the stewards while walking the tight rope of "I simply forgot we gelded him..."

Isn't there a saying about stones and living in a glass house.

Oh and I'm little exhausted of Friday's DQ being positioned as Secretariat's Belmont of bad DQ's. A rider almost went down and that rider objected against both top finishers. Was it the wrong call. Yes. But this one doesn't crack the top 10 of the year and the top 1,000 all time.

Miller is simply pouring gasoline on Friday to distract everyone fro Saturday. Don't buy into it.

[cj]

Am I the only one totally amused that Miller keeps trashing the stewards while walking the tight rope of "I simply forgot we gelded him..."

Isn't there a saying about stones and living in a glass house.

Oh and I'm little exhausted of Friday's DQ being positioned as Secretariat's Belmont of bad DQ's. A rider almost went down and that rider objected against both top finishers. Was it the wrong call. Yes. But this one doesn't crack the top 10 of the year and the top 1,000 all time.

Miller is simply pouring gasoline on Friday to distract everyone fro Saturday. Don't buy into it.

No way I'm buying the poor Peter Miller garbage. Guy is the hottest trainer in the country and among the elite move up kings.

[Robert Fischer]

are other equipment changes allowed with 18 minutes to post (such as adding blinkers) ?

[oughtoh]

No

[Robert Fischer]

No

if not allowed, then 1st time geldings should be scratched as well.

A horse whose been chopped, hooded, or given lasix should be scratched if the trainer neglected to inform the track, or if the track neglected to inform the public.



https://twitter.com/RacingOnion/status/873724006465126402


I wish I had paid more attention to the 'pattern recognition' thread in the racing section.
This guy seems very familiar.

[PaceAdvantage]

Oh and I'm little exhausted of Friday's DQ being positioned as Secretariat's Belmont of bad DQ's. A rider almost went down and that rider objected against both top finishers.Saying the rider almost went down is akin to positioning Friday's DQ as the Secretariat of bad DQs.

I watched the race as it was happening and all the subsequent Steward's views...never once thought the rider almost went down...

[SuperPickle]

Saying the rider almost went down is akin to positioning Friday's DQ as the Secretariat of bad DQs.

I watched the race as it was happening and all the subsequent Steward's views...never once thought the rider almost went down...

Look we can debate the definition of "almost going down" all day but it's indisputable he steadied hard. He also objected so clearly he felt someone did something.

You'll agree there's at least 20 DQ's a year where the fouled rider never stops riding and the horse still comes down. This was the wrong call but it's taken on a life of its own among SoCal horseplayers.

Or to put it another way I'm far more concerned about Saturday's last race than Friday's first race.

[Andy Asaro]

This takes the cake.

Santa Anita stewards ask for guidance to prevent future pick six controversy

http://www.drf.com/news/santa-anita-stewards-ask-guidance-prevent-future-pick-six-controversy

[Andy Asaro]

BTW the winning controversial Pick 6 ticket has not been cashed yet adding to the conspiracy theories.

http://www.drf.com/news/santa-anita-stewards-ask-guidance-prevent-future-pick-six-controversy

Excerpt:

According to Nate Newby, Santa Anita vice president of marketing, the winning ticket had not been cashed as of late Sunday afternoon, at either Hollywood Park Casino or Santa Anita.

[GMB@BP]

Best peter miller putover happened about 3 years ago on friday Breeders Cup day undercard....cant remember the horse but it won for 50 bucks or so. Not a guy I would trust so to speak.

[Andy Asaro]

This takes the cake.

Santa Anita stewards ask for guidance to prevent future pick six controversy

http://www.drf.com/news/santa-anita-stewards-ask-guidance-prevent-future-pick-six-controversy

What paid professionals in their right minds ask for guidance for FTG?

[Gander36]

John 8:7 - "Whoever among you pix-six players that left the horse off their ticket because they thought he was a colt, let him be the first to cast a stone at the racing officials..."

[SuperPickle]

Best peter miller putover happened about 3 years ago on friday Breeders Cup day undercard....cant remember the horse but it won for 50 bucks or so. Not a guy I would trust so to speak.

First time starter going long in a maiden claimer? Went to the front and just kept going. That's the one I'm thinking of.

[Andy Asaro]

John 8:7 - "Whoever among you pix-six players that left the horse off their ticket because they thought he was a colt, let him be the first to cast a stone at the racing officials..."

Awesome.

[GMB@BP]

First time starter going long in a maiden claimer? Went to the front and just kept going. That's the one I'm thinking of.

Heir of the Storm....Nov 1 2013, 1st race. Though at 40/1 hard to believe it was some funny business but he was so overmatched on a BC day maybe he could have still taken money with the inside stuff going on.

[cj]

John 8:7 - "Whoever among you pix-six players that left the horse off their ticket because they thought he was a colt, let him be the first to cast a stone at the racing officials..."

Or P3, or P4, or DD.

[KidCruz]

Heir of the Storm....Nov 1 2013, 1st race. Though at 40/1 hard to believe it was some funny business but he was so overmatched on a BC day maybe he could have still taken money with the inside stuff going on.

Lol, he spent that entire year having PVal basically lope that horse around 5 wide every trip that entire year. Then on BC day, he switches jockeys and all of a sudden he's running 21,43,107,120 and walloping G1 winners. Someone made some score on him in some pool that day, of that I am sure. It wasn't the Pick 5 though which famously carried.

[Spalding No!]

Lol, he spent that entire year having PVal basically lope that horse around 5 wide every trip that entire year. Then on BC day, he switches jockeys and all of a sudden he's running 21,43,107,120 and walloping G1 winners. Someone made some score on him in some pool that day, of that I am sure. It wasn't the Pick 5 though which famously carried.
Heir of Storm was a well-meant early 2yo the year before when winning his debut at Hollywood Park going 5.5f from just off the pace after breaking slow. In that race he defeated eventual millionaire and track record holder Moreno as well as multiple graded stakes winner Fury Kapcori.

At the time, the horse was trained by low profile Alexis Barba, who proceeded to run the horse in the two main 2yo stakes at Del Mar. He ran 4th in the Best Pal before coming undone in the G1 DM Futurity. He was gone for nearly a year after that.

When he returned, Barba must have decided he was a two-turn grass horse for some reason, because after a sprint tune-up, he was running in grass allowances over 8f. She also thought the horse was suited to a closing style because he was not showing any of the tactical speed he displayed at 2.

After 3 off-the-board comeback attempts, the owners of the horse must of had enough and sold the horse. Miller took over, and simply put the horse back where he had his only previous success, sprinting on the main track. He also put the horse on the lead, which may have been his preference all along (he broke slow in his 2 relevant 2yo starts). The horse was subsequently graded stakes place.

[GMB@BP]

Heir of Storm was a well-meant early 2yo the year before when winning his debut at Hollywood Park going 5.5f from just off the pace after breaking slow. In that race he defeated eventual millionaire and track record holder Moreno as well as multiple graded stakes winner Fury Kapcori.

At the time, the horse was trained by low profile Alexis Barba, who proceeded to run the horse in the two main 2yo stakes at Del Mar. He ran 4th in the Best Pal before coming undone in the G1 DM Futurity. He was gone for nearly a year after that.

When he returned, Barba must have decided he was a two-turn grass horse for some reason, because after a sprint tune-up, he was running in grass allowances over 8f. She also thought the horse was suited to a closing style because he was not showing any of the tactical speed he displayed at 2.

After 3 off-the-board comeback attempts, the owners of the horse must of had enough and sold the horse. Miller took over, and simply put the horse back where he had his only previous success, sprinting on the main track. He also put the horse on the lead, which may have been his preference all along (he broke slow in his 2 relevant 2yo starts). The horse was subsequently graded stakes place.

If I remember correctly there was like one published work for the race. It looked funny after the fact, I do remember that.

[HuggingTheRail]

This takes the cake.

Santa Anita stewards ask for guidance to prevent future pick six controversy

http://www.drf.com/news/santa-anita-stewards-ask-guidance-prevent-future-pick-six-controversy

Not saying this is at all right, but what should the stewards have done? If they aren't allowed to scratch the horse, and they cannot declare it running for purse money only, not sure what they could do?

[Andy Asaro]

Not saying this is at all right, but what should the stewards have done? If they aren't allowed to scratch the horse, and they cannot declare it running for purse money only, not sure what they could do?
They were stuck with the rule that the CHRB made 4 years ago. There are only 2 legit choices to change the rule. Either scratch or run for purse money only if a FTG isn't announced at least 30 minutes before the first race of the day.

If they don't know what to do after this then they shouldn't have jobs IMO.

[Track Phantom]

They were stuck with the rule that the CHRB made 4 years ago. There are only 2 legit choices to change the rule. Either scratch or run for purse money only if a FTG isn't announced at least 30 minutes before the first race of the day.

If they don't know what to do after this then they shouldn't have jobs IMO.
Agree with the rule change but it was a bad situation no matter how it was handled or what rule was in place.

[cj]

They were stuck with the rule that the CHRB made 4 years ago. There are only 2 legit choices to change the rule. Either scratch or run for purse money only if a FTG isn't announced at least 30 minutes before the first race of the day.

If they don't know what to do after this then they shouldn't have jobs IMO.

Don't the stewards have a "best interests of the betting public clause" to fall back on? Of course we know horsemen interests always trump bettor interests, but I always thought that was a thing.

[Andy Asaro]

Don't the stewards have a "best interests of the betting public clause" to fall back on? Of course we know horsemen interests always trump bettor interests, but I always thought that was a thing.

Here's what I sent to the list this morning.

What we have is a crew of Stewards who are trying to rectify bad racing luck with the DQ process. You can’t expect tiring horses to run perfectly straight in the stretch and at the same time expect the Jockeys to think about how many times they use the whip so they won’t get fined.

The call Friday was horrible. I bet the 2. The 2 was tiring and the hole closed while the 2 was tiring. That’s bad racing luck and not grounds for a DQ.

For the last several years the CHRB has been not only defending this crew and backing their ridiculous explanations afterward, and they constantly give them more power and more responsibility. Since they added more camera angles the Stewards take longer than ever to make a call. And, I don’t care how much experience McHargue has he’s been backing the bad calls.

It’s enough with this crew. No matter how you word the rule they’ll find a way to overreach and the same things will happen again.

Clean up Ca. Racing and start by getting rid of people who are unable to perform their duties as professionals.

I went a little over the top Sunday night but when I saw the headline about guidance I hit the roof. That sums up all you need to know about the people who are paid to be “experts” but need guidance from the public.

[Spalding No!]

Don't the stewards have a "best interests of the betting public clause" to fall back on? Of course we know horsemen interests always trump bettor interests, but I always thought that was a thing.
From CHRB website:

Rule 1530 Cases Not Covered by Rules and Regulations.
Should any case occur which may not be covered by the Rules and Regulations of the Board or by other accepted rules of racing, it shall be determined by the stewards in conformity with justice and in the interest of racing.

Rule 1542 Power to Refuse Entry and Deny Eligibility.
For good cause, the stewards may refuse the entry to any race, or declare ineligible to race and order removed from the premises, any horse.

Second rule is probably not applicable, since it focuses on entries, but unless once an entry is accepted its somehow irrevocable (of course, its not) then its seems to be fairly flexible.

[jay68802]

Don't the stewards have a "best interests of the betting public clause" to fall back on? Of course we know horsemen interests always trump bettor interests, but I always thought that was a thing.

Horse racing has proven already that the "best interest of the betting public" is not a deciding factor in their decisions. The Life at Ten incident at Churchill in 2010 proved that. I have a hard time believing that the fact that this information of "FTG" or any incident of reporting changes of equipment, are oversights. Trainers plan ahead, they make these changes before the race. They probably have the horse workout with the change to see if the change is positive. I highly doubt that a trainer is standing in the paddock before the race, scratches his head, and says "hey, maybe we should put blinkers on". The same thing can be said for not reporting workouts. I think it would be easy to say that if equipment changes or workouts are not reported 30 min before the first race of the day, the trainer, or whoever, can decide if the horse will be scratched or run for purse money only and not be included in the wagering. This way the betting public, is responsible for checking changes before the program begins, and a late change that might affect his handicapping judgement would not become a issue. This is just one of many, many changes that may improve the image of horse racing and remove some doubt on strange outcomes. How many times do incidents like this need to happen for change's to be made?

[cj]

From CHRB website:

Rule 1530 Cases Not Covered by Rules and Regulations.
Should any case occur which may not be covered by the Rules and Regulations of the Board or by other accepted rules of racing, it shall be determined by the stewards in conformity with justice and in the interest of racing.

Rule 1542 Power to Refuse Entry and Deny Eligibility.
For good cause, the stewards may refuse the entry to any race, or declare ineligible to race and order removed from the premises, any horse.

Second rule is probably not applicable, since it focuses on entries, but unless once an entry is accepted its somehow irrevocable (of course, its not) then its seems to be fairly flexible.

Cool, that was my point. The stewards obviously COULD have acted, they just chose not to do so and are playing dumb.

[cj]

How many times do incidents like this need to happen for change's to be made?

Obviously more than we can count.

[JustRalph]

From CHRB website:

Rule 1530 Cases Not Covered by Rules and Regulations.
Should any case occur which may not be covered by the Rules and Regulations of the Board or by other accepted rules of racing, it shall be determined by the stewards in conformity with justice and in the interest of racing.

Rule 1542 Power to Refuse Entry and Deny Eligibility.
For good cause, the stewards may refuse the entry to any race, or declare ineligible to race and order removed from the premises, any horse.

Second rule is probably not applicable, since it focuses on entries, but unless once an entry is accepted its somehow irrevocable (of course, its not) then its seems to be fairly flexible.

Looks like they could have acted under 1530.

Article 134 for veterans....

[cj]

Looks like they could have acted under 1530.

Article 134 for veterans....

LOL!

[Track Phantom]

Thinking about this, you cannot scratch a horse for misfiled paperwork. This is a terrible idea.

Imagine if anyone on this board had played the p6 and had the Miller runner singled in the last leg, for the sole winning ticket. If they scratch him, or even worse, run him for purse money only and he wins, and you don't collect the pool, it is woefully unfair.

You have to allow the horse to run and deal with the penalties in a harsh way in order to deter this kind of thing happening. You just cannot penalize the bettor for something he had no control over, especially since the bettor had no more information about the horse than anyone else.

[AndyC]

Thinking about this, you cannot scratch a horse for misfiled paperwork. This is a terrible idea.

Imagine if anyone on this board had played the p6 and had the Miller runner singled in the last leg, for the sole winning ticket. If they scratch him, or even worse, run him for purse money only and he wins, and you don't collect the pool, it is woefully unfair.

You have to allow the horse to run and deal with the penalties in a harsh way in order to deter this kind of thing happening. You just cannot penalize the bettor for something he had no control over, especially since the bettor had no more information about the horse than anyone else.

You have no idea how much information bettors have or don't have. Either way you do it bettors get penalized. I would much rather the appearance of impropriety be removed by eliminating the horse in question from the P6.

It seems to me that there needs to be a better way of filing paperwork so that the problem doesn't happen.

[cj]

If the paperwork portion of horse racing is anything like the rest of it, I imagine the sport is a few decades behind the rest of the world.

[cj]

Anybody cash that ticket yet?