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Pace Cap'n
08-04-2004, 07:47 AM
Where I go to play the ponies (Woodlands), they have year-round live greyhound racing, and a decent-enough simulcasting area for horseracing.

Average weekend attendance will be in the dozens for the ponies and the hundreds for the dogs. KD & BC days will increase that a lot but not to the point of getting shut out.

Get this: Last weekend they drew 10,000.

How? By interspersing the greyhound races with DASCHOUND races.

Shetlands, anyone?

ranchwest
08-04-2004, 08:04 AM
Life's a rat race. Oh, no! Don't tell anyone at Woodlands that rats were mentioned!

Hosshead
08-04-2004, 09:14 AM
Hummm....Do the Daschound Races have Exactas?

sq764
08-04-2004, 12:07 PM
5 words:

Hooters bartenders at every track

so.cal.fan
08-04-2004, 12:32 PM
"Hooters bartenders at every track"


No, that won't work either, SQ. Hubbard tried it at Hollywood Park.
Nothing but Hookers and Dancing Girls! LOL
Now it did attract a certain crowd.....but they didn't bet!

Seriously,
LOWER THE TAKEOUT TO 10% on every bet.
10% manditory tax on big hits, no signs, no IRS forms....just take the 10% and call it even.

How many of you would start putting MORE money in the pools if the above was the rule?

Pace Cap'n
08-04-2004, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Hosshead
Hummm....Do the Daschound Races have Exactas?

No wagering on the short dogs.

But it was interesting that during the first few dog races there were no lines at the betting windows.

After a few races, the Daschound folks thought they had figured out how to bet the greyhounds and the regular dog bettors couldn't get a bet down.

kenwoodallpromos
08-04-2004, 01:54 PM
Get the track announcers to "rap" the race calls.

takeout
08-04-2004, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by so.cal.fan
Seriously,
LOWER THE TAKEOUT TO 10% on every bet.
10% manditory tax on big hits, no signs, no IRS forms....just take the 10% and call it even.

AMEN!

sq764
08-04-2004, 01:58 PM
Seriously, you know what would be an unbelievable promotion? How about a zero takeout day!

Charge for admission, programs, food, drinks, etc.. But zero takeout for an entire card..

I know it will never happen because they would lose out on their take for a day.. Even a 5% takeout would be unreal

schweitz
08-04-2004, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by so.cal.fan
"Hooters bartenders at every track"


No, that won't work either, SQ. Hubbard tried it at Hollywood Park.
Nothing but Hookers and Dancing Girls! LOL
Now it did attract a certain crowd.....but they didn't bet!

Seriously,
LOWER THE TAKEOUT TO 10% on every bet.
10% manditory tax on big hits, no signs, no IRS forms....just take the 10% and call it even.

How many of you would start putting MORE money in the pools if the above was the rule?

I nominate so.cal.fan for Racing Czar! :D

so.cal.fan
08-04-2004, 05:42 PM
Seriously, how many of you guys would stop betting so much on sports and put a lot more money into the pools with a 10% takeout?

It would make it very feasible for a guy with a good computer program or even without one, who was willing to work a bit, to grind out a decent income from betting horses!

Look, if the offshore betting shops are giving "rebates" and luring in big bettors, why let them do that? I doubt all that money goes back into our pools.

TEN PERCENT on any bet you care to make at the track.....NO IRS INVOLVEMENT.
Horserace betting would be the BEST GAMBLE for your $$$.

schweitz
08-04-2004, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by so.cal.fan
Seriously, how many of you guys would stop betting so much on sports and put a lot more money into the pools with a 10% takeout?

It would make it very feasible for a guy with a good computer program or even without one, who was willing to work a bit, to grind out a decent income from betting horses!

Look, if the offshore betting shops are giving "rebates" and luring in big bettors, why let them do that? I doubt all that money goes back into our pools.

TEN PERCENT on any bet you care to make at the track.....NO IRS INVOLVEMENT.
Horserace betting would be the BEST GAMBLE for your $$$.

I was serious----I think this is an excellent idea---one can only dream that it could happen.

The_Knight_Sky
08-04-2004, 08:03 PM
Seriously,
LOWER THE TAKEOUT TO 10% on every bet.
10% manditory tax on big hits, no signs, no IRS forms....just take the 10% and call it even.

An instantaneous creation of winners across the land.
A silent minority who'll be back to churn and churn.

Think of it...it's the tapouts and lack of funds that prevent
most fans from attending the races regularly.
The handicappers who are in the educated minority will
prosper and a realistic opportunity of "winning at the track"
is one of the best advertisements for the sport.

so.cal.fan, you've got the stamp of approval from this corner.http://www.hoc-board.de/phpBB2/smilies/sonstige/up.gif

takeout
08-04-2004, 08:27 PM
I think slot tracks ought to have zero takeout all of the time. If they’re going to subsidize their racing to keep it afloat they might as well throw their customers a bone too.

Maxspa
08-04-2004, 08:35 PM
All,
Tracks could make a serious improvement in attendance and handle if they would make an effort to treat the race patron in a positive manner. No one likes to go to the track and pay the inflated costs for beer and hotdogs. Make those prices reasonable and have special days when food and drink could be purchased at a bargain. Ever take a family to the track, pay for parking, admission, seating, programs plus buy food and drinks and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.
Special days for free admission, programs for a buck. along with the giveaway bobble heads etc. create interest and perhaps some new fans. An example of just the opposite is to raise the price of admission at a track that is breaking all records (Saratoga). Bobby Frankel stated several years ago, "That the tracks should have free parking and free admission."They don't have to do that but they could improve their public image by giving a little and not try to fleece the patron by raising the fare at a successful track.
Another misconception that a new fan has is admission entitiles you to a seat. You go to a movie, baseball game etc. pay admission and get a seat not so in racing. Try telling that to a new fan and you'll have a disgruntled person who will think twice before coming back to the track. Add another scenario and have a clubhouse exchange: Pay extra still no seat and another mis understanding.
One bright note to this whole situation is the success that Tampa Downs has accomplished this year. They have put the customer first in many areas and as a result the track has prospered. New attendance and betting records have been set.
Treating the customer in a positive manner works!
Maxspa

so.cal.fan
08-04-2004, 08:51 PM
Your idea would work well in good areas, Max.....but I fear that in many urban areas, you would get a pretty rough crowd hanging out if it was free.
You would get certain types of bad parents, coming in with kids and just dumping them off to be entertained by the racetrack.
Racing does need to promote new fans, I sure agree with that.
However, it also needs to offer an exceptional product (gambling) that out does it's competition.
It costs and arm and a leg to go to a Lakers game in Los Angeles.
In contrast people can go to Santa Anita with their families on nice afternoons, and have a nice day out for a fraction of the cost....if you combined that with a great gamble for your $$ you have a winning product!
Del Mar is expensive, in yet they get good crowds.....there wouldn't even be standing room if they offered a 10% take.
It would take about a year, perhaps two for this to really take hold, but once everyone understood that racing offers the best deal in a gamble.......we would have crowds like we used to years ago.

InsideThePylons-MW
08-04-2004, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by Maxspa
One bright note to this whole situation is the success that Tampa Downs has accomplished this year. They have put the customer first in many areas and as a result the track has prospered. New attendance and betting records have been set.


Tampa Bay usurious takeout rates

Win, place, and show: 18.9%
Daily Double, Exacta and Quinella: 22.5%
All other wagering: 25.9%


When are they going to put the customer first in the category that matters the most?

Do they supply their customers with free lube at all entrances to the track?

Maxspa
08-05-2004, 08:37 AM
ITP,
A good percentage of the people that go to the track don't understand the benefits of a lower take out but they understand the cost of a hot dog and a beer! Tampa also has full fields and mutuel prices that go with them. That being said, I never bet Tampa Downs cards because the handicapping there defies normal handicapping approaches. Price horses abound often with no rhyme or reason. I will say that management cares about the customer in most areas and it's paying off in increased handle and attendance!
Maxspa

Maxspa
08-05-2004, 08:52 AM
So-Cal -Fan,
I think comparing an outing with to see the Lakers and one to the racetrack is comparing apples with oranges. If you ask some of the youngsters to identify Sightseek or Shaq the answer would be obvious. In racing you have to seek out the new customers and with NBA basketball the publicity difference on a daily basis through the exposure on radio and TV is significantly different. So racing has to do more to attract the new fan!
If you were to judge a day out at the track with dinner in the clubhouse including the MaitreD's subway to get a decent table ( Could be a hundred dollar bill or more on the weekend), the meal and tip and racing costs are comparable to quality Laker tickets.
Racing imho needs to be customer oriented, innovative and welcome the public and it can be done!
Maxspa

azibuck
08-07-2004, 10:12 PM
Why doesn't lower takeout "work" on a limited basis? For example, 12% on the Pick 3 at Sam Houston. Why don't people hammer that?

There might (probably) be a small bump in handle because of more churn from the regular heavy bettors, but I just don't see it as something the public will ever latch on to.

They latch on to slots, but it's not because of the lower take there. Before realizing any benefit from a lower takeout, even it the take was 5%, people need to be able to pick winners.

To pick winners they need to handicap. Already you've lost a TON of people who don't even want to invest the time. To handicap, you need to work. Even for the hobbyist, like me, handicapping is effort, if not work. People will never be drawn to it unless they're wired a certain way.

Lowering the take would probably eventually enrich the tracks, a fact that escapes them. But I see no evidence other than blind speculation that it would draw a crowd.

az

Brian Flewwelling
08-08-2004, 09:02 AM
to draw a crowd, you have to have something happening. with one race each half hour their is too much windshield time when little is happening.

follow the presentation for the winner of one race with the post parade for the next immediately. at least 5, maybe six, races in an hour.

then a break for track maintenance ... then 4 or 5 more races.

repeat as necessary.

This pace would make 5 and 6 horse races 'entertaining', so run 15 races a day.

Fleww