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GMB@BP
05-29-2017, 12:57 AM
Well I am not a new player but was wondering what is the consensus best place to play if you were focusing on one circuit. and why? Or is that kinda old school thinking and everyone just players every circuit looking for the types of wagers that they like best?

Zaf
05-29-2017, 01:03 AM
NYRA hands down the best circuit in North America !

Z

oughtoh
05-29-2017, 01:10 AM
Stay away from California, not enough horses.

Zaf
05-29-2017, 01:15 AM
Stay away from California, not enough horses.

And stay away from Kentucky ( Ellis - Turfway ) and Florida is only a good product for part of the year.

Thread Closed :headbanger::pound:

Z

JustRalph
05-29-2017, 01:43 AM
NYRA hands down the best circuit in North America !

Z

I learned a long time ago, it's parimutuel. Remember who you are playing against. If you are going to play New York as a newbie, you're jumping into the deep end of the water. The sharpest players in the world.

Now, back in the day you had 2-3 good circuits to play. NY-SoCal being the hardest if you ask me. I started small and moved to SoCal.

Today? I have no idea where I would start

GMB@BP
05-29-2017, 01:52 AM
I learned a long time ago, it's parimutuel. Remember who you are playing against. If you are going to play New York as a newbie, you're jumping into the deep end of the water. The sharpest players in the world.

Now, back in the day you had 2-3 good circuits to play. NY-SoCal being the hardest if you ask me. I started small and moved to SoCal.

Today? I have no idea where I would start

That was going to be my reply, if you are playing NYRA you basically are playing against the sharpest money in NA, and sharp money is really the majority of the pools from what I understand.

thaskalos
05-29-2017, 05:36 AM
That was going to be my reply, if you are playing NYRA you basically are playing against the sharpest money in NA, and sharp money is really the majority of the pools from what I understand.

I could understand this sort of thinking back in the pre-simulcast days...when we were confined to our local horseracing circuits. But now, with the vast majority of the NY mutuel pools consisting of out-of-state wagers...I happen to think that the pools there have "dumbed-down" considerably. I invite people to bet the Pennsylvania circuit...if they really want to see "smart money" at work.

I also find no credence in the popular theory that the NYRA product is "clearly the best racing in the land". In fact, as the summer months are upon us...the most accurate word that I can think of to describe the 2017 NYRA season so far, is the word "AWFUL". One swallow doesn't make a summer...and one Saratoga doesn't make a circuit.

Yes...NYRA is our most POPULAR circuit...but let's not forget that McDonald's is also our most popular eatery.

The best thing for a horseplayer to do, IMO...is to avoid thinking in terms of being "loyal" to a particular racing circuit...and to, instead, pick different racing locales at different times of the year.

Johng032
05-29-2017, 11:17 AM
I'd argue that the best circuit is the one where there are somewhat limited variables. I find NY for a newbie to be extremely difficult. Multiple distances, lots of shippers in the spring and summer, maidens galore, first time turf or dirt. 1 turn "routes" at Belmont, etc.

My suggestion would be to find a track that limits those variables. Oaklawn meet is a good example as a starting point. Full fields, constant 6F sprint distance, usually only 2 route distances, no turf. It does "fail" fewer shipper requirement. Choose a track with easy availability of race replays. Will let you follow the horses without wagering and during the week.

I started with cheap horses at Suffolk downs in the 80's (the 70's if you count our family excursions on Memorial Day to sit on beach chairs at the wire with homemade beef cutlet sandwiches). Sprints were all 6 furlongs, routes were predominantly a mile and 40/70 yards. I handicapped on current form, track bias (usually path info), trainer angles and speed figures, all readily available information now but you had to search a little bit back then to find it. Used to have a daily replay show on cable and could keep track of horses during dinner. Larry Collmus was the track announcer and host for a while.

With all of the problems in the sport, gambling on horse racing or visiting a race track is still my favorite pastime.

Tom
05-29-2017, 11:37 AM
Yes...NYRA is our most POPULAR circuit...but let's not forget that McDonald's is also our most popular eatery.


Very well put. :lol:

I like Tampa and Pen, Mth......looking at Lrl lately - seem to have good field sizes, long meeting.

I used to like NYRA turf, until they paved it.

GMB@BP
05-29-2017, 02:11 PM
I could understand this sort of thinking back in the pre-simulcast days...when we were confined to our local horseracing circuits. But now, with the vast majority of the NY mutuel pools consisting of out-of-state wagers...I happen to think that the pools there have "dumbed-down" considerably. I invite people to bet the Pennsylvania circuit...if they really want to see "smart money" at work.

I also find no credence in the popular theory that the NYRA product is "clearly the best racing in the land". In fact, as the summer months are upon us...the most accurate word that I can think of to describe the 2017 NYRA season so far, is the word "AWFUL". One swallow doesn't make a summer...and one Saratoga doesn't make a circuit.

Yes...NYRA is our most POPULAR circuit...but let's not forget that McDonald's is also our most popular eatery.

The best thing for a horseplayer to do, IMO...is to avoid thinking in terms of being "loyal" to a particular racing circuit...and to, instead, pick different racing locales at different times of the year.

I think this is a really good post and I agree with a lot of it, though I think to be fair with the foal crop down some much from the downturn in economy racing has been rough all year long.

The advantage though to knowing one circuit is that you really get to know the horses and trainers, riders. For example I know inside and out socal racing so there are just horses that I can toss or include based on the history of the barn. I am not sure you would get that level of comfort if you played many different circuits.

GMB@BP
05-29-2017, 02:13 PM
I'd argue that the best circuit is the one where there are somewhat limited variables. I find NY for a newbie to be extremely difficult. Multiple distances, lots of shippers in the spring and summer, maidens galore, first time turf or dirt. 1 turn "routes" at Belmont, etc.

My suggestion would be to find a track that limits those variables. Oaklawn meet is a good example as a starting point. Full fields, constant 6F sprint distance, usually only 2 route distances, no turf. It does "fail" fewer shipper requirement. Choose a track with easy availability of race replays. Will let you follow the horses without wagering and during the week.

I started with cheap horses at Suffolk downs in the 80's (the 70's if you count our family excursions on Memorial Day to sit on beach chairs at the wire with homemade beef cutlet sandwiches). Sprints were all 6 furlongs, routes were predominantly a mile and 40/70 yards. I handicapped on current form, track bias (usually path info), trainer angles and speed figures, all readily available information now but you had to search a little bit back then to find it. Used to have a daily replay show on cable and could keep track of horses during dinner. Larry Collmus was the track announcer and host for a while.

With all of the problems in the sport, gambling on horse racing or visiting a race track is still my favorite pastime.

agree, the variables are much higher in the NYRA circuit...one could argue that leads to better prices and more exotic type plays.

GMB@BP
05-29-2017, 02:14 PM
A little surprised no one has mentioned takeout as a reason for selecting a circuit.

woodbinepmi
05-29-2017, 04:04 PM
A little surprised no one has mentioned takeout as a reason for selecting a circuit.

Or rebates

whodoyoulike
05-29-2017, 04:41 PM
Well I am not a new player but was wondering what is the consensus best place to play if you were focusing on one circuit. and why? Or is that kinda old school thinking and everyone just players every circuit looking for the types of wagers that they like best?

You've answered your own question especially with simulcasting with most tracks thru your ADW. Hopeful, you do have an ADW.

Clocker
05-29-2017, 04:50 PM
I could understand this sort of thinking back in the pre-simulcast days...when we were confined to our local horseracing circuits. But now, with the vast majority of the NY mutuel pools consisting of out-of-state wagers...I happen to think that the pools there have "dumbed-down" considerably.

I agree, and by the same token you have no idea who you are betting against at smaller tracks.

Belmont on Sunday had an in-house handle of $1.5 million and an outside handle of $8.7 million. Same day, Mountaineer did $24K in-house :rolleyes: and $1.1 million from outside.

Afleet
05-29-2017, 05:23 PM
KY circuit is the best, but I substitute OP in the winter for Turfway. Best thing about KY circuit is no statebred races. Half of the races on the NYRA circuit are statebred races. Also, MSW weight races at KY Downs are basically run for grade 3 purses. No one competes w/that and OP has the 2nd highest MSW purses.

Tom
05-29-2017, 06:13 PM
You might want to factor in the percentage of wining favorites.
At A Glances at BRIS give you that.

When winning horses pay less than you paid for the Form, you might as well go fishing.

Jeff P
05-29-2017, 06:19 PM
You might want to factor in the percentage of wining favorites.
At A Glances at BRIS give you that.

When winning horses pay less than you paid for the Form, you might as well go fishing.

Is that the barometer I should use?

As I get older and the price of the Form keeps going up...

And as field sizes shrink...

Are you saying I should take this as a hint and go fishing more often? :)



-jp

.

Robert Fischer
05-29-2017, 06:46 PM
Well I am not a new player but was wondering what is the consensus best place to play if you were focusing on one circuit. and why?
NY. Quality (broadcast, replays, expert handicapping), and relatively competitive. You have to pass a ton of races with those short fields, or become a multi-race guy, and even then you have to pass a lot of days. But, to follow along, and learn the game, you can't beat it.


Or is that kinda old school thinking and everyone just players every circuit looking for the types of wagers that they like best?

Once you know what a "fastball right down the middle" looks like, you can look at every circuit that offers them up.

HalvOnHorseracing
05-30-2017, 12:48 PM
I've not done enough research to be able to accurately characterize the different types of horseplayers. One thing I'm convinced about is that whatever type of horseplayer a person is, they are generally convinced that is the best type of horseplayer for them to be. The balance for most players is between what I call the action strategy and the investment strategy. At one end, for some people it is simply the action that keeps them going. Losing money, up to a point, is irrelevant. The thrill is in having a root in most events. At the other end, investment players are more interested in coming out ahead and can show a lot of patience to do so. Find the sweet spot, pass every race where you don't have a real advantage, focus on the bets you are most likely to win. And of course, there are a lot of players between the two ends. I think the answer to the best circuit is a couple of things. One, you should only bet a circuit you know well. Trainers, jockeys, track biases and of course the horses. Two, based on the size bettor your are, you should bet a circuit that can accept your action without having a negative effect on the return. $1,000 to win on a horse at Arapahoe Park is going to have a huge impact on the pool. At Saratoga, not so much. I'd also say the closer to the pure investor you are, the more you may want to avoid circuits where short fields and excessive favorites seem to dominate the racing days. Even if you have great patience, it can get hard passing race after race. That being said, I think there are meets that offer the best opportunities. I'd put Belmont, Saratoga, GP in the winter, OP, FG, CD, Kee, KD, SA and Del Mar on the list of circuits that would meet my criteria for a good meet to bet. I've said this many times, but I think for players who aren't "experts" the best bets if you are trying to make money are win and exacta with occasional forays into the more complicated combination bets.

jay68802
05-30-2017, 01:00 PM
You could look at Louisiana. year around racing, good average field size, and good pools to bet into.

ReplayRandall
05-30-2017, 01:03 PM
I would add 3 tracks to Halvey's list: Tampa Bay, Monmouth and Laurel because of their turf racing...

castaway01
05-30-2017, 01:04 PM
Well I am not a new player but was wondering what is the consensus best place to play if you were focusing on one circuit. and why? Or is that kinda old school thinking and everyone just players every circuit looking for the types of wagers that they like best?

I think if you're looking to have fun and possibly make some money, you look for tracks that offer the kind of races you like. If you like turf routes vs. dirt sprints, cheap vs. high-class racing, that should be your guide. Of course if you have records and know where you do best, that should be priority 1. Past that, play the kind of races you enjoy handicapping, wherever they may be.

Prof.Factor
05-30-2017, 01:20 PM
Well I am not a new player but was wondering what is the consensus best place to play if you were focusing on one circuit. and why? Or is that kinda old school thinking and everyone just players every circuit looking for the types of wagers that they like best?

I play many circuits. Personal priority is simulcasting signal presentation concentrating on horse viewing.
Woodbine is my top place to play hands down. NYRA is near the bottom of my list ... just ahead of Maryland.
I'll play Pennsylvania, Texas, Louisiana, Ohio, Florida, New Mexico, California, Kentucky, Illinios, before I play NYRA or Maryland.
You are not a newbie so I'm sure any circuit will suit you in time. Pool sizes would be something for you consider.

ReplayRandall
05-30-2017, 02:03 PM
I play many circuits. Personal priority is simulcasting signal presentation concentrating on horse viewing.
Woodbine is my top place to play hands down. NYRA is near the bottom of my list ... just ahead of Maryland.
I'll play Pennsylvania, Texas, Louisiana, Ohio, Florida, New Mexico, California, Kentucky, Illinios, before I play NYRA or Maryland.
You are not a newbie so I'm sure any circuit will suit you in time. Pool sizes would be something for you consider.

If signal presentation concentrating on horse viewing is your focus, why don't you have RTN? It appears you're getting your info from TVG exclusively, thus your biased opinion due to the limited/biased TVG presentation of these tracks......Expand to full simo signals from now on, you're costing yourself money.

Prof.Factor
05-30-2017, 02:41 PM
If signal presentation concentrating on horse viewing is your focus, why don't you have RTN? It appears you're getting your info from TVG exclusively, thus your biased opinion due to the limited/biased TVG presentation of these tracks......Expand to full simo signals from now on, you're costing yourself money.

I use Twinspires

ReplayRandall
05-30-2017, 03:44 PM
I use Twinspires

Then I don't understand how you reached your conclusions....

VigorsTheGrey
05-30-2017, 04:01 PM
I have been lazy for some years now by not having a ADW account, so I'm very limited by only being able to wager on what the track or simulcast location brings into the mix...this is not an optimal scheme by any means....and the lack of any software I imagine is a huge down side as well....but I'm almost ready to make the change to stay at home wagering...but then I'm wondering if then I'm just doing what everyone else is doing and avoiding the tracks, which is one of the reasons why they are not doing so well....pretty soon maybe the simos close, as home playing cuts way into their business as well....still the appeal of expanding wagering and venue opportunities seem over-whelmingly the right choice for the obsessed amateur that I am...

Prof.Factor
05-30-2017, 04:13 PM
Then I don't understand how you reached your conclusions....

Decades of betting horses .... literally. I've played every single track in North America in that time, to one degree or another.
Sorry if my 'biased' opinion does not conform.
Been wanting to try China.

ReplayRandall
05-30-2017, 04:21 PM
Decades of betting horses .... literally. I've played every single track in North America in that time, to one degree or another.
Sorry if my 'biased' opinion does not conform.
Been wanting to try China.

40 years for me, and did you happen to notice my name? I guess you're seeing something that poly-track players must really like, with Woodbine being your "hands-down" top selection.....Yeah, that must be it...:rolleyes:

Edit: I forgot it's Tapeta.....whatever

Prof.Factor
05-30-2017, 04:52 PM
40 years for me, and did you happen to notice my name? I guess you're seeing something that poly-track players must really like, with Woodbine being your "hands-down" top selection.....Yeah, that must be it...:rolleyes:

Edit: I forgot it's Tapeta.....whatever

I'll play any track any surface. If you've been doing this for 40 years then that shouldn't matter.
Woodbine's signal product is 2nd to none and their betting menu suits all.
I'm not selling anything .... I offered my opinion to original poster's query, as asked.

ReplayRandall
05-30-2017, 05:06 PM
I'll play any track any surface. If you've been doing this for 40 years then that shouldn't matter.
Woodbine's signal product is 2nd to none and their betting menu suits all.
I'm not selling anything .... I offered my opinion to original poster's query, as asked.

Fair enough, we disagree.....We're done.

Tom
05-30-2017, 09:40 PM
Woodbine was hands down my favorite track until they changed to Tapeta. I stopped playing until I get a full year's data on it. But so many timing errors pointed out this year, I have not yet looked at all at it. I read some thing "46" posted elsewhere about the timing from first hand, hands on experience and it turned me off.

Tracks that can't time races have no integrity with me. I trust them not at all. They are not professional.

Robert Fischer
05-31-2017, 01:28 PM
Woodbine seems to vary more than average, when it comes to race flow, and bias.

It can be frustrating when you handicap a race, and then all the bums trot around in a merry-go-round and contend, or when all the bums circle the field and contend.

However, if you are able recognize those races and bet the horses back you can stay ahead. Same goes for occasionally recognizing an opportunity in the moment.

Inner Dirt
05-31-2017, 02:12 PM
Woodbine was hands down my favorite track until they changed to Tapeta. I stopped playing until I get a full year's data on it. But so many timing errors pointed out this year, I have not yet looked at all at it. I read some thing "46" posted elsewhere about the timing from first hand, hands on experience and it turned me off.

Tracks that can't time races have no integrity with me. I trust them not at all. They are not professional.


I have said no to all artificial tracks for decades and will never bet even $2 on one again.

AltonKelsey
05-31-2017, 03:07 PM
Curious, why the Prof. despises NYRA for betting purposes?

AltonKelsey
06-01-2017, 02:03 PM
Curious, why the Prof. despises NYRA for betting purposes?


Apparently he hates it so much, he's speechless

Prof.Factor
06-01-2017, 07:14 PM
Apparently he hates it so much, he's speechless

I don't check this board too often but after reading your post(s) I decided to watch a Belmont race with an open mind, presuming they are doing better since the last time I watched.

The following is a by-the-minute simulcast breakdown and my assessment thereof. Enjoy!


Belmont Park 6-01-2017 race 5 (8 horse field)

21-18 min. mark - race replays (Prof. grade A)

17 min. mark - Bourbon commercial ... if you have to advertise it's a good spot (Prof. grade C)

16-15 min. mark - Belmont Stakes ad ... seriously? The Belmont? 2 minutes? And it's opaque to boot. (Prof. grade C)

14 min. mark - paddock glimpse of 2 horses ... (Prof. grade B)

13-9 min. mark - paddock ... good looks (Prof. grade A)

8-7 min. mark - walk over ... (Prof. grade A)

6 min. mark - walk onto track ... no post parade to speak of (Prof. grade D)

5 min. mark - warm-ups ... good looks at #4,#2,#1,#3 ... (Prof. grade B)

4 min. mark - warm-ups ... good looks at #4 again,#3 again, glimpse of #8 (Prof. grade D)

3 min. mark - transparent pool totals graphic over some pointless background graphic (no horses) ... (Prof. grade E)

2 min. mark - end of warm-up ... looks at #5,#2,#8,#6 ... still not a one peek at #7 (a 3-1 horse) ... (Prof. grade C)

1 min. mark - heading toward gate - distant group shot, looks at #2,#7 walking to gate ... (Prof. grade C)

0 min. mark - loading

Final GPA 2.15 ... C


Exactly how I remember the NYRA format ... lacking.
I require more, much more.

Tom
06-01-2017, 09:43 PM
I have said no to all artificial tracks for decades and will never bet even $2 on one again.

My biggest score ever happened at Turfway. One of my best seasons ever happened at Woodbine. Nothing wrong with poly - you just have to understand your track.

no breathalyzer
06-01-2017, 10:22 PM
My biggest score ever happened at Turfway. One of my best seasons ever happened at Woodbine. Nothing wrong with poly - you just have to understand your track.

:ThmbUp: well said ... i n a way i like poly ... keeneland was fun when they had it

chaz63
06-11-2017, 11:04 AM
Woodbine/Mohawk for both T-bred and S-Bred. All day, everyday, every which way!