PDA

View Full Version : It's official, Pletcher can't train a horse to run back in two weeks


depalma113
05-20-2017, 07:59 PM
He just doesn't know how to do it.

Julz
05-20-2017, 08:17 PM
That's why I told you not to bet it, but you said I wouldn't be cashing any tickets :headbanger:

depalma113
05-20-2017, 08:52 PM
That's why I told you not to bet it, but you said I wouldn't be cashing any tickets :headbanger:

I'm sure you were cashing plenty with Gunnevera.:rolleyes:

Wickel
05-20-2017, 08:55 PM
But Leparoux can screw up a quality mount two weeks in a row.:confused::confused::confused:

dilanesp
05-20-2017, 09:57 PM
I don't buy this. Pletcher used to work for Wayne Lukas, who could wheel horses back as well as anyone. You think he forgot whatever Lukas used to do?

This horse didn't have it. But Pletcher gets lots of good horses, he'll have another top three year old at some point, and I wouldn't throw the horse out just because Pletcher usually doesn't like to run 2 weeks apart.

n.c
05-21-2017, 09:19 AM
mentioned that Pletcher horses have been super cold last few days..after starting super hot during KY derby period.

tophatmert
05-21-2017, 10:25 AM
The more races a Pletcher horse has ,the less I want to bet them . He is a trainer for owners want to win an early 3yo classic race. Owners want grade 1 races and early in careers and they want to send them out to stud. Many of his horses are so well bred that a few good grade 1 performances in a short time are all they need to command good sire money .Lets get our grade 1 and 2 early and then see if the horse can sustain good performances. You know what you are getting when you sign up with the Pletch.

Dahoss9698
05-21-2017, 10:39 AM
He just doesn't know how to do it.

Don't you think a big part of it is most of his horses (like Always Dreaming) are used to 4-6 weeks between starts? If anything he's too easy on them, which is why I'm sure he doesn't like running in the Preakness. That 2 weeks back doesn't work for what he normally does.

arw629
05-21-2017, 10:55 AM
The more races a Pletcher horse has ,the less I want to bet them . He is a trainer for owners want to win an early 3yo classic race. Owners want grade 1 races and early in careers and they want to send them out to stud. Many of his horses are so well bred that a few good grade 1 performances in a short time are all they need to command good sire money .Lets get our grade 1 and 2 early and then see if the horse can sustain good performances. You know what you are getting when you sign up with the Pletch.

This is how I bet many super trainers in the claiming game. I avoid trainers like Rudy Rodriguez, Karl Broberg, Jacobson ect the longer they have a horse in their barn. I always use them first off the claim and usually 2nd off the claim but it seems like the longer they have horses their performance starts to trail off. I've never 5hought of Pletcher this way but you may be on to something. I never thought AD was as good as advertised tho but will pay closer attention to other Pletcher runners this summer. It does seem to me though that throughout the course of the year Todd goes through real hot streaks and cold streaks. No stats to back that up but in the recent short term he hasn't been winning as many races as maybe accustomed

pandy
05-21-2017, 11:26 AM
I don't buy this. Pletcher used to work for Wayne Lukas, who could wheel horses back as well as anyone. You think he forgot whatever Lukas used to do?

This horse didn't have it. But Pletcher gets lots of good horses, he'll have another top three year old at some point, and I wouldn't throw the horse out just because Pletcher usually doesn't like to run 2 weeks apart.

True, but there's no way that Lukas would have run this horse without a single work since his last race. Pletcher may have been too easy on the horse. I can't understand why these trainers think that these lightly raced colts are going to burn out when so many Derby winners have won the Preakness.

dilanesp
05-21-2017, 11:54 AM
True, but there's no way that Lukas would have run this horse without a single work since his last race. Pletcher may have been too easy on the horse. I can't understand why these trainers think that these lightly raced colts are going to burn out when so many Derby winners have won the Preakness.

I'm almost certain that they don't really believe it. There's an economic imperative to lightly race especially your colts who might see stud duty, so they come up with theories about how it's better for the horses. If the economic imperative were the opposite, they'd have a bunch of theories about racing horses into condition and wheeling them back while they are sharp (which, in fact, older generations of horsemen did have).

Thomas Roulston
05-21-2017, 12:14 PM
He just doesn't know how to do it.


Or maybe Always Dreaming won the Derby only because of the slop?

outofthebox
05-21-2017, 05:28 PM
True, but there's no way that Lukas would have run this horse without a single work since his last race. Pletcher may have been too easy on the horse. I can't understand why these trainers think that these lightly raced colts are going to burn out when so many Derby winners have won the Preakness.Certainly a work out one week after the Derby would not of made a difference. It's not like he got caught in the final strides. He was done on the far turn. The runner up had no breeze in the two weeks, and actually trained less days than AD. Sometimes it's not meant to be.

depalma113
05-21-2017, 11:41 PM
Or maybe Always Dreaming won the Derby only because of the slop?

Go ahead and explain away his Florida Derby win too.

depalma113
05-21-2017, 11:43 PM
Don't you think a big part of it is most of his horses (like Always Dreaming) are used to 4-6 weeks between starts? If anything he's too easy on them, which is why I'm sure he doesn't like running in the Preakness. That 2 weeks back doesn't work for what he normally does.

I think he just targets a race and just can't continue the form once the original goal has been attained.

PaceAdvantage
05-22-2017, 12:53 AM
I think he just targets a race and just can't continue the form once the original goal has been attained.That seems like kind of an odd assumption to make.

Can't continue the form? Why would this be so difficult for a guy who's been in the game so long and has trained many a top horse?

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

depalma113
05-22-2017, 07:45 AM
That seems like kind of an odd assumption to make.

Can't continue the form? Why would this be so difficult for a guy who's been in the game so long and has trained many a top horse?

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Has the guy ever had a horse that won a graded stakes and than came back and win another one in three weeks or less? If he did, I couldn't find it.

Dahoss9698
05-22-2017, 08:27 AM
I think he just targets a race and just can't continue the form once the original goal has been attained.

Well he's been targeting the Derby for almost 20 years with pretty poor results. But he has had a pretty good record in the Belmont, mostly with horses who performed poorly in the Derby.

It's the spacing of races. His program is all about time between races. Despite learning under Lukas, their approach in that regard is very different.

Fager Fan
05-22-2017, 09:29 AM
Has the guy ever had a horse that won a graded stakes and than came back and win another one in three weeks or less? If he did, I couldn't find it.

You probably won't find many because unless it's the TC, you're going to be trying to space races about a month apart.

CE raced 3 races in 5 weeks, just like the TC trail, going from Ark to Derby to Preakness. Maybe that explains not being able to hold off CC.