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View Full Version : Rant - Jockeys on leaders in North America


sausage
05-07-2017, 09:38 PM
Firstly - I am from Australia and a lot of my horse racing experience/knowledge is from Australia and GB racing.

When I bet a horse on the dirt or turf in North America and they are more than 1.5 lengths clear on the lead why on earth do they not get down to the rail. I see this day after day horses leading then another horse darts up the inside, in the racing I know you do not give the rail up for anything once you have an opportunity to get it.

I find this very odd given as soon as a horse comes up your inside you lose momentum and have nothing to run against.

I would love to hear what other cappers think about this but I find myself yelling at my tv/computer screen when horses get these dream runs up the rail.

VigorsTheGrey
05-07-2017, 09:55 PM
Firstly - I am from Australia and a lot of my horse racing experience/knowledge is from Australia and GB racing.

When I bet a horse on the dirt or turf in North America and they are more than 1.5 lengths clear on the lead why on earth do they not get down to the rail. I see this day after day horses leading then another horse darts up the inside, in the racing I know you do not give the rail up for anything once you have an opportunity to get it.

I find this very odd given as soon as a horse comes up your inside you lose momentum and have nothing to run against.

I would love to hear what other cappers think about this but I find myself yelling at my tv/computer screen when horses get these dream runs up the rail.

I've noticed over the years in North America that most races are won by a horse that is outside of another horse during the stretch run unless the horse goes wire to wire of course...don't know why this is...but most riders like to get off the rail at some point during the race...there are some exceptions like when there is a "golden rail" happening...
somebody correct me if I'm wrong about this...it may be that any closer must move outward to pass either fading speed or just to get by leading horses who are racing on the rail...

Dave Schwartz
05-07-2017, 10:32 PM
Firstly - I am from Australia and a lot of my horse racing experience/knowledge is from Australia and GB racing.

When I bet a horse on the dirt or turf in North America and they are more than 1.5 lengths clear on the lead why on earth do they not get down to the rail. I see this day after day horses leading then another horse darts up the inside, in the racing I know you do not give the rail up for anything once you have an opportunity to get it.

I find this very odd given as soon as a horse comes up your inside you lose momentum and have nothing to run against.

I would love to hear what other cappers think about this but I find myself yelling at my tv/computer screen when horses get these dream runs up the rail.

Simple answer: Sometimes the rail is not the best place to be.

Distance may be shorter but the ground might be tougher going.

sausage
05-07-2017, 11:02 PM
Dave,

Thanks for the comment.

On a FAST Dirt/synthetic/tapeta surface I have never found an issue with the rail except maybe PARX (maybe there are others but I probably play 60% of all tracks available for wagering)

whodoyoulike
05-08-2017, 12:06 AM
Firstly - I am from Australia and a lot of my horse racing experience/knowledge is from Australia and GB racing.

When I bet a horse on the dirt or turf in North America and they are more than 1.5 lengths clear on the lead why on earth do they not get down to the rail. I see this day after day horses leading then another horse darts up the inside, in the racing I know you do not give the rail up for anything once you have an opportunity to get it.

I find this very odd given as soon as a horse comes up your inside you lose momentum and have nothing to run against.

I would love to hear what other cappers think about this but I find myself yelling at my tv/computer screen when horses get these dream runs up the rail.


I don't get it either and I've also noticed it. The shortest distance etc., except I haven't noticed them darting inside but rather the passing jockey goes even further outside.

Although, Dave is probably correct and the jockeys seem to feel the same.

menifee
05-08-2017, 02:24 AM
Firstly - I am from Australia and a lot of my horse racing experience/knowledge is from Australia and GB racing.

When I bet a horse on the dirt or turf in North America and they are more than 1.5 lengths clear on the lead why on earth do they not get down to the rail. I see this day after day horses leading then another horse darts up the inside, in the racing I know you do not give the rail up for anything once you have an opportunity to get it.

I find this very odd given as soon as a horse comes up your inside you lose momentum and have nothing to run against.

I would love to hear what other cappers think about this but I find myself yelling at my tv/computer screen when horses get these dream runs up the rail.


I posted on this topic a few months ago. There are a few tracks where there is an outside bias almost year round. Parx, Mountain, etc. There the rail is not the place to be.

However, you are absolutely right. I have seen so many sprint races where a jockey breaks on top, can take the rail, but does not do it. If you are in the 3 or 4 path and you can take the rail, it puts tremendous pressure on those inside horses behind you to find room. They often cannot find it and have to strangle back their horses. If you don't take the rail, that pressure is not applied.

Worst, if you give a slow breaking horse the opportunity to come up the rail, inevitably that horse will rush up and engage your horse. They often engage in a duel and then your horse's chances are compromised greatly due to that duel. If you take away the rail, that jockey can't rush up. I see this daily and I continue to get frustrated.

sausage
05-08-2017, 11:13 PM
Bang on Menifee - that's the one that gets me the most, slow break jockey overdoes it to get back into the race and duels the leader clear in the 3/4 path.

First rule of jockey school in Australia - if you are the leader never get beat up your inside

EasyGoer89
05-08-2017, 11:33 PM
One think that irks me to no end w US based jocks is how you rarely see any of them make a riding decision that hinders a heavy favorite. One of my pet peeves is the post 2 horse out breaking the 2/5 shot from post 1 in a sprint and not getting over to the rail, they stay in the 2 path and let the rail horse up the fence and often to victory.

sausage
05-09-2017, 03:31 PM
Yes Easy Goer I think that is my main point - so often a horse with the starting gate 1,2,3 can have a bad start and still make ground up the rail due to wider drawn horses not crossing over.

I understand the stewards rules are way different but like I stated earlier it doesn't appear to be rocket science if you can see the rail and are 1.5 lengths clear to the inside get down to it and make the inside horses have to come around you to beat you.

If I was an owner that would be my first instructions to my jockey. If I see an example I will post to this thread

Quesmark
05-12-2017, 12:00 AM
Bang on Menifee - that's the one that gets me the most, slow break jockey overdoes it to get back into the race and duels the leader clear in the 3/4 path.

First rule of jockey school in Australia - if you are the leader never get beat up your inside
Seems sometimes in Australia,going too fast early can lead to a quick seat on the bench:

May 11,2017
Katelyn Mallyon has been suspended for 17 days for her handling of Valediction in a 3000m race at Moonee Valley.

Mallyon was charged over her ride on the Gai Waterhouse and Adrian Bott-trained Valediction in a 1 7⁄8 m race at Moonee Valley on February 3.
Valediction became involved in a speed battle with Barge And Charge before both horses weakened to be beaten 53 lengths and 33 lengths respectively.

Barge And Charge's jockey Dean Holland was suspended in March for three weeks after pleading guilty to a charge over his ride,

Excerpt from:
http://www.skyracingworld.com/news-single.aspx?id=404084&type=news

sausage
05-26-2017, 07:36 PM
Big Bump - Penn National race 2 may 26

4 horse Thebarberofbrazil has a clear lead early let the jockey allows horse to stay in the 2/3 path - gets challenged up the rail loses momentum and goes down to the rail horse in a driving finish....

IMO this is the ONLY way he gets beat - there is no track bias just a mindless ride

Rise Over Run
05-28-2017, 12:07 PM
Big Bump - Penn National race 2 may 26

4 horse Thebarberofbrazil has a clear lead early let the jockey allows horse to stay in the 2/3 path - gets challenged up the rail loses momentum and goes down to the rail horse in a driving finish....

IMO this is the ONLY way he gets beat - there is no track bias just a mindless ride
Yeah, I hear you about jockeys leaving the rail and having horses rally to the inside. But in this case I think the issue is related to the horse. Watch his replays, he wants to get out on the turns. The race 3 back on April 12 was especially bad.

n.c
05-28-2017, 12:30 PM
but you are sitting on top of a beast going at very high speed, so the brain cannot function at a optimum level..It is like a qb throwing passes...if no pass rush, they all look good, when pass rush comes, the throws are not perfect.

Do you ever see a great world class sprinter being a great wr in the nfl???? Bob Hayes, but that was 4 or 5 decades back.

jasperson
05-28-2017, 01:18 PM
My pet peeve is when a jockey is inside and on the rump of the outside horse and they come to the turn and the outside horse bears in to the rail and checks the inside horse. I see it all the time.