AQU Inner Track - nice knowing ya

[SG4]

Love it or hate it, the AQU inner track is no more. Being converted to a 2nd turf course & the main track will get treatment to handle the winter in better fashion.

I was under the impression horsemen really liked the AQU main surface, wonder their take on this.

Happy that this will increase the options on distances they can write over the winter along with some additional turf distances too, still will always believe the winter meet would've been better off converting the inner to a synthetic surface though.

[PaceAdvantage]

Tiz true...the horrors! :eek:

http://www.drf.com/news/aqueducts-inner-track-will-become-turf-course

[johnhannibalsmith]

This is really a turn-off for me. I'm sure that there a trillion great reasons to do it, but the inner was the part of the circuit that I fell in love with first and still make an effort to enjoy today.

[SuperPickle]

I don't get the negativity. I'll conceded it's weird to add a second turf course to a meet that has 8 weeks of turf racing at BEST.

However the inner isn't going away as much as the outer is becoming the inner. It's going to be the same surface.

Here's the upside. Aqueduct runs November to April. You've got a ton of young horses, late 2's to early 3's who have a choice of six furlongs or a two turn mile. Trainers can now gradually stretch horses out versus 6 or 8 furlongs being their only choice.

Also you have a nice collection of horses at NYRA who's best trip is longer than six furlongs but can't get a two turn mile. Seven furlong and one turn mile specialists. This makes it more attractive to race those horses in NY.

This is a good thing.

[098poi]

As long as they still have winter racing​ and we have a contest fine by me. I live to smash my head on my computer after getting knocked out in the first leg. Ahh the memories.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I don't get the negativity. ...

Like I said, a trillion good reasons to do it, I'm sure. Part of the inner's charm is the track itself. Not the surface, but the configuration. We have plenty of one-turn everything on the NY circuit. Milers suddenly having to deal with the short run to a first turn was a major component of finding live plays. The turns leading to different biases than you see elsewhere. There is a different vibe about the inner meet and it revolves around the track being, well, inner. I don't really want to see an elongated main track meet called the inner meet or whatever distinction I'm not supposed to care about. The real inner meet was unique - both in good and bad ways - but this outie innie meet just makes the regular Aqueduct meet plus the inner meet that much less interesting to follow and to play. For me, at first blush, anyway.

[classhandicapper]

I think this is a good move for all the reasons in the article (better distance options, field size etc..), but I thought this was especially interesting.

"Another potential benefit of adding a second turf course at Aqueduct would be to conduct racing there for an extended period of time should there be a renovation of some sort at Belmont Park that would require it to close temporarily."

That means there may actually be some renovation plans for Belmont.

I would have to hope that if they are taking on this additional expense there is very little chance of AQU closing any time soon.

[SuperPickle]

I'll sum it up this way. SoCal is geo-fencing players to try and shake a few more nickels into the till.

NYRA is eliminating tracks to try and keep up better with places like Gulfstream so they can run the same distances.

Whether you like the management or agree with them the reality is they're taking big swings which is what the sport needs. I'll also bet anything Exchange wagering is legal in NY before CA. NYRA management sees the whole board.

It's chess versus checkers. NYRA going to go down swing while SoCal is literally ripping the copper wiring out of walls.

[Andy Asaro]

I'll sum it up this way. SoCal is geo-fencing players to try and shake a few more nickels into the till.

NYRA is eliminating tracks to try and keep up better with places like Gulfstream so they can run the same distances.

Whether you like the management or agree with them the reality is they're taking big swings which is what the sport needs. I'll also bet anything Exchange wagering is legal in NY before CA. NYRA management sees the whole board.

It's chess versus checkers. NYRA going to go down swing while SoCal is literally ripping the copper wiring out of walls.

Well said. Couldn't agree more.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I mean, come on, I didn't post a fourteen-page Chris Kaye manifesto and declare it a horrible decision. I more or less conceded straight away it is just one of those inevitable, logical decisions. But, I don't like it. I'll get over it if I haven't already, but there's this vibe about all the negativity and near as I can tell, I'm the only one being remotely bitchy, and even I'm willing to come to grips with it before it happens. Not really a lot of passionate disagreement that seems to be driving the posts, but hey, if it spawns better conversation then I won't spoil the fun. :)

[zawaaa]

When Aqueduct’s current incarnation opened in 1959, it had one dirt track and two turf courses. In 1975, the outer turf course was replaced by a one-mile inner dirt track. The inner track had a limestone base that enabled it to handle winter weather better than the main track, which had a clay/silt/sand base.

The main track will have a limestone base and a sandy loam cushion, according to Glen Kozak, NYRA’s director of racing surfaces.

“All we’re doing is putting in a limestone base, similar to what the winter track had or what the [Belmont] training track has,” Kozak said. “The only thing that we’ll be doing to the cushion is add clay to hold moisture and tighten the track up.”

Though Aqueduct conducts turf racing for only about eight weeks a year, NYRA officials believe a second turf course will enable it to offer additional grass races, which typically fill better than dirt races.

waow, i had no idea Aqueduct used to have two turf courses!

[zawaaa]

also, a fantastic, fantastic article; on the subject

Aqueduct: A History of the Inner Track (https://brooklynbackstretch.com/2010/03/18/aqueduct-a-history-of-the-inner-track/)

a couple relevant quotes -- the safety issue is a bit worrying

NYRA first raced year round in 1974, and then-chair of the New York Racing Association, Jack Dreyfus, asked, “What do we need to do for year-round racing?” King told him, “We need a second dirt track.” The main track was clay and soil based, and thus susceptible to damage from winter weather and freeze/thaw cycles.

King recalls the conversations. “The worst case scenario is that we’d limp through the winter with one track, and then in the spring, we’d have a beat-up, worn-out track just as prime racing season was coming up. What were we gonna do, punt?”

“We didn’t have a lot of options then,” King said. Aqueduct at that time had a main track and two turf courses, and according to King, “A second dirt track was more important than a second turf course. We could race on the turf in April, and then we’re not back at Aqueduct until October, and off the turf by November anyway.”

What was necessary, King said, was safe racing all year around, and that concern led to the opening of the inner track in the fall of 1976.

NYRA’s current track supervisor, Glen Kozak, explains the benefits of limestone. “The stone dust—limestone—bottom of the track stands up better than clay, and the base drains better than clay.” Asked why Aqueduct needs two dirt tracks given the benefit of the inner, Kozak says, “The main track’s base is clay, and horsemen find that more forgiving. And the winter track is easier to maintain because it drains better; it doesn’t heave and separate the way clay would."

[Inner Dirt]

I no longer have a reason to live.

[cj]

I don't get the negativity. I'll conceded it's weird to add a second turf course to a meet that has 8 weeks of turf racing at BEST.

That is the part I don't get. Seems like a waste of money. But since it isn't my money, the only thing changing for me is some programming and figuring out a model for the new turf course.

[Tom]

Do they really card enough turf races at Aqueduct to make if worthwhile? Not a lot of time the track itself is open.

The draw to the inner, although easily fought off, was two turn routes. But until I see palm trees, no bets on either track for me.

[classhandicapper]

Do they really card enough turf races at Aqueduct to make if worthwhile? Not a lot of time the track itself is open.


I think the answer is - they will be soon.

[SuperPickle]

That is the part I don't get. Seems like a waste of money. But since it isn't my money, the only thing changing for me is some programming and figuring out a model for the new turf course.

My theory is the turf course is really irrelevant. Panza sees Gulfstream as his competition. Considering the purses are bigger and racing not as competitive his theory or his feedback is if he ran more distances more horses might stay the winter or ship out later or in early. Basically the only thing Gulfstream has that Aqueduct isn't is weather and a mile chute.

On the turf course thing I don't want to make this a global warming thread but Woodbine was on the turf till November and NYRA till December. Give turf is now a 8-9 month thing I can't totally crap on two courses.

[dilanesp]

waow, i had no idea Aqueduct used to have two turf courses!

The first thing I thought when I saw this thread was "they're going back to the original configuration".

[zawaaa]

Do they really card enough turf races at Aqueduct to make if worthwhile?

here's a rough little list by track type for the last three years :

2016-2017 ----- 837 races --- 486 inner (58.1%) --- 257 main (30.7%) --- 94 turf (11.2%)
2015-2016 ----- 929 races --- 486 inner (57.4%) --- 284 main (30.6%) --- 112 turf (12.1%)
2014-2015 ----- 903 races --- 498 inner (55.1%) --- 337 main (37.3%) --- 68 turf (7.5%)

it is quite a gambit to scuttle the inner track considering how much it was used, admittedly.

The first thing I thought when I saw this thread was "they're going back to the original configuration".

the old "main" turf course got great reviews from what i've read -- the current turf course will go back to being called the "inner" turf course, i suppose.

[PaceAdvantage]

Maybe that other thread was right. Maybe Belmont is going to be torn down after all and they're just getting ready for the inevitable...:rolleyes:

[jk3521]

Maybe that other thread was right. Maybe Belmont is going to be torn down after all and they're just getting ready for the inevitable...:rolleyes:

Now I'm really depressed ! :rant:

[Thomas Roulston]

And this means turf sprints at AQU - at last!

But I hope they dismantle the permanent rail separating the two turf courses, so as to turn it into another Gulfstream/Laurel type course.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

I no longer have a reason to live.


:D "Inner Turf" haha

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Bigger picture, perhaps this is the first step in putting improvements to Belmont more specifically "luxury" amenities that are all the rage these days and taking the first step towards getting the BC back in NY.

I wouldnt be surprised to see Belmont open a week or two later while running at Aqueduct later in order to complete the renovations. When Belmont opens we see alot more turf racing. Having the two courses at Aqueduct would lend itself to that. Curious to see what happens in the next couple years.

[jeebus1083]

And this means turf sprints at AQU - at last!

But I hope they dismantle the permanent rail separating the two turf courses, so as to turn it into another Gulfstream/Laurel type course.

That plan would require a massive reconstruction of the current turf course to blend with the new one replacing the old IDT (banking, drainage, uniformity in general).. If I remember correctly, it takes several months for the roots of grass to fully develop. Having said that, there is always the possibility that the new turf course won't be race ready until next spring. From a NYRA standpoint, keeping the current turf course as is would work in their favor should there be a delay in getting the new course running this fall.

[foregoforever]

But I hope they dismantle the permanent rail separating the two turf courses, so as to turn it into another Colonial Downs type course.

Fixed that for you. <sigh>

[Thomas Roulston]

This move was also made with the Breeders' Cup in mind: Since there are now turf sprint races in the Breeders' Cup, it would not have been feasible to run the Breeders' Cup at Aqueduct in its up-until-now configuration.

Another thing I would like to see done is to bring back the old Aqueduct summer meeting, which can begin the Wednesday after the Belmont Stakes, which can be held on Belmont's closing day. That way, the big 1 3/16-mile (the Suburban Handicap and Brooklyn Handicap had been run at that distance at various times) and 1 1/14-mile (the Dwyer was contested at 1 1/4 miles during the Aqueduct summer meet) dirt stakes races can be run there, running them at Belmont giving far too great an advantage to the inside posts - and to avoid cutting the length of the Saratoga meet, it can always be extended if necessary, as if it hasn't been extended before - and is there anything in either the Ten Commandments or the U.S. Constitution that states that thou shalt not race at Saratoga past Labor Day? Then the end of the Belmont fall meet can be pushed back as well to avoid shortening that either.

[HuggingTheRail]

I may have missed it in the details, but any idea what this renovation is going to cost?

[dilanesp]

This move was also made with the Breeders' Cup in mind: Since there are now turf sprint races in the Breeders' Cup, it would not have been feasible to run the Breeders' Cup at Aqueduct in its up-until-now configuration.

Another thing I would like to see done is to bring back the old Aqueduct summer meeting, which can begin the Wednesday after the Belmont Stakes, which can be held on Belmont's closing day. That way, the big 1 3/16-mile (the Suburban Handicap and Brooklyn Handicap had been run at that distance at various times) and 1 1/14-mile (the Dwyer was contested at 1 1/4 miles during the Aqueduct summer meet) dirt stakes races can be run there, running them at Belmont giving far too great an advantage to the inside posts - and to avoid cutting the length of the Saratoga meet, it can always be extended if necessary, as if it hasn't been extended before - and is there anything in either the Ten Commandments or the U.S. Constitution that states that thou shalt not race at Saratoga past Labor Day? Then the end of the Belmont fall meet can be pushed back as well to avoid shortening that either.


The thing about Saratoga past labor day is their attendance numbers drop pretty far late in the meet. They would probably drop more.

[098poi]

:D "Inner Turf" haha


Good one!

[Thomas Roulston]

The thing about Saratoga past labor day is their attendance numbers drop pretty far late in the meet. They would probably drop more.


But some of Forego's greatest races were at the Aqueduct summer meet.

And I could now be onto something with my thread about how Belmont might be closing - and with Colonial Downs and its 1 1/4-mile dirt track apparently gone for good, closing Belmont would leave North America with no dirt track larger than 1 1/8 miles.

[Red Knave]

Love it or hate it, the AQU inner track is no more.
PA, does that mean I'll NEVER win the RidersUp contest? :(

Color me bummed out!

[KPMats10]

I may have missed it in the details, but any idea what this renovation is going to cost?

Panza was quoted as saying $3 million was the cost

[KPMats10]

This move was also made with the Breeders' Cup in mind: Since there are now turf sprint races in the Breeders' Cup, it would not have been feasible to run the Breeders' Cup at Aqueduct in its up-until-now configuration.

Another thing I would like to see done is to bring back the old Aqueduct summer meeting, which can begin the Wednesday after the Belmont Stakes, which can be held on Belmont's closing day. That way, the big 1 3/16-mile (the Suburban Handicap and Brooklyn Handicap had been run at that distance at various times) and 1 1/14-mile (the Dwyer was contested at 1 1/4 miles during the Aqueduct summer meet) dirt stakes races can be run there, running them at Belmont giving far too great an advantage to the inside posts - and to avoid cutting the length of the Saratoga meet, it can always be extended if necessary, as if it hasn't been extended before - and is there anything in either the Ten Commandments or the U.S. Constitution that states that thou shalt not race at Saratoga past Labor Day? Then the end of the Belmont fall meet can be pushed back as well to avoid shortening that either.

Aqueduct is open enough during the winter, why take away from Belmont's beauty and spacious backyard?

Aqueduct has no real grandstand seating for patrons and no backyard area for people and families to sit, picnic and just have themselves a good time.

[SuperPickle]

Maybe that other thread was right. Maybe Belmont is going to be torn down after all and they're just getting ready for the inevitable...:rolleyes:

PA I'll guarantee two things...

1. One of them is gone within the decade. The land is too valueable. There's still some big pieces of land available for big projects in the outer boroughs and eastern Long Island. As they go away sooner or later it will be one of them.

2. The $3 million for the new turf course will have zero impact on which track goes. Whatever replaces them will be a billion dollar project. $3 million is couch change.

[castaway01]

This move was also made with the Breeders' Cup in mind: Since there are now turf sprint races in the Breeders' Cup, it would not have been feasible to run the Breeders' Cup at Aqueduct in its up-until-now configuration.

Another thing I would like to see done is to bring back the old Aqueduct summer meeting, which can begin the Wednesday after the Belmont Stakes, which can be held on Belmont's closing day. That way, the big 1 3/16-mile (the Suburban Handicap and Brooklyn Handicap had been run at that distance at various times) and 1 1/14-mile (the Dwyer was contested at 1 1/4 miles during the Aqueduct summer meet) dirt stakes races can be run there, running them at Belmont giving far too great an advantage to the inside posts - and to avoid cutting the length of the Saratoga meet, it can always be extended if necessary, as if it hasn't been extended before - and is there anything in either the Ten Commandments or the U.S. Constitution that states that thou shalt not race at Saratoga past Labor Day? Then the end of the Belmont fall meet can be pushed back as well to avoid shortening that either.

Saratoga is one of the few things in racing that works and is highly successful as is. Why would you want to mess with it just so there can be an Aqueduct summer meeting?

[castaway01]

PA I'll guarantee two things...

1. One of them is gone within the decade. The land is too valueable. There's still some big pieces of land available for big projects in the outer boroughs and eastern Long Island. As they go away sooner or later it will be one of them.

2. The $3 million for the new turf course will have zero impact on which track goes. Whatever replaces them will be a billion dollar project. $3 million is couch change.

As far as the likelihood of Aqueduct or Belmont being sold for development, I'm somewhere between your chance of it happening and PA's. I definitely agree with the second point though. This is an effort to have fewer 5-horse fields and has nothing to do with what track is still standing 10 years from now.

[classhandicapper]

If Aqueduct is open for a summer while they are renovating or overhauling Belmont, what happens to the Belmont Stakes on the 1 1/8th mile oval.

[Thomas Roulston]

But if there are two meetings before Saratoga instead of one, it means that more soft-turf races get to stay on grass, and fewer 4- and 5-horse off-the-turf races.

And did you read my post, classhandicapper? They wouldn't move to Aqueduct until after the Belmont Stakes.

[classhandicapper]

And did you read my post, classhandicapper? They wouldn't move to Aqueduct until after the Belmont Stakes.

I wouldn't be the end of the world to run the Belmont Stakes at AQU around 3 turns, but if they are really going to do a major overhaul of Belmont eventually, it could take more than a year. It depends in the extent of the project. There was talk of building a brand new grandstand on the other side of the track.

[Tom]

If Aqueduct is open for a summer while they are renovating or overhauling Belmont, what happens to the Belmont Stakes on the 1 1/8th mile oval.

What happens to the 3yo triple crown preps they have now?
Drop back to a mile or go to nine? Gotham back to a mile?

[Thomas Roulston]

Once again, the pre-1977 Aqueduct summer meeting did not begin until after the Belmont Stakes - the Wednesday after the Belmont specifically.

In addition, the pre-1975 Aqueduct outer turf course was one mile plus 124 feet; the inner turf course, 7 furlongs plus 187 feet.

If the rail between the present Inner Dirt Track and turf course were dismantled, the result would be the same as Arlington, Gulfstream, and Laurel, where a whole array of rail settings and distances are possible: With a Monmouth-like diagonal backstretch chute, 6 1/2-furlong turf races are possible, along with 7 1/2 furlongs on the turf with the rail, delineated with a new hedge, at 0 feet. That's only a 1-furlong gap between the longest one-turn turf race and the shortest two-turn turf race.

This also means that the rail between the hedge and the rail on the dirt can be removed entirely, allowing for super-large fields.

[Tom]

...the result would be the same as Arlington, Gulfstream, and Laurel, where a whole array of rail settings and distances are possible:

Just what we need, more permutations of turf rail/run ups. :puke:

[Thomas Roulston]

Just what we need, more permutations of turf rail/run ups. :puke:


These can be limited to create the requisite increment of distances only (Example: The rail would be set far off the hedge to allow 6 and 6 1/2-furlong turf races). I am not advocating the Byzantine regime of "lanes" deployed at Gulfstream and Arlington.

[thespaah]

Ok...Call me confused...
Here is statement one
"The inner track had a limestone base that enabled it to handle winter weather better than the main track, which had a clay/silt/sand base.
This statement appears to infer that the main track which has clay as a component which is not conducive to winter use.
Now....Read this
"The main track will have a limestone base and a sandy loam cushion, according to Glen Kozak, NYRA’s director of racing surfaces."
Ok...looks good, right?
Now in the next paragraph there is this....
"“The only thing that we’ll be doing to the cushion is add clay to hold moisture and tighten the track up.”
Ok..So he says the clay in the base is not good for winter racing. But clay in the cushion is ok for winter racing.
I could be off base here ( no pun intended) but if clay is eliminated from the base because it does not make for a good winter track, then why add clay to a track they are preparing for winter racing.
Now, If there is one thing regarding soil in which I am well versed and that is clay. Here in NC, you cannot get away from clay. Its the dominant soil content of this region. And yes it does hold moisture. And when it does get cold enough here, the soil surface tends to freeze very rapidly. More moisture means the freezing temp of the soil surface is raised.
So, with the clay in the track cushion, the main track will have to be harrowed deeply to avoid any freezing potential in the cushion....
BTW, if anyone has spent any time here in the Charlotte region and seen or walked through wet clay soil, they will tell you that stuff is stickier than Gorilla Glue.

[thespaah]

Like I said, a trillion good reasons to do it, I'm sure. Part of the inner's charm is the track itself. Not the surface, but the configuration. We have plenty of one-turn everything on the NY circuit. Milers suddenly having to deal with the short run to a first turn was a major component of finding live plays. The turns leading to different biases than you see elsewhere. There is a different vibe about the inner meet and it revolves around the track being, well, inner. I don't really want to see an elongated main track meet called the inner meet or whatever distinction I'm not supposed to care about. The real inner meet was unique - both in good and bad ways - but this outie innie meet just makes the regular Aqueduct meet plus the inner meet that much less interesting to follow and to play. For me, at first blush, anyway.

Aren't you overthinking this just a wee bit?
Quite frankly, I applaud this. Its gets real tired when there are 6 or 7, 3/4 mile sprints on every card.

[thespaah]

waow, i had no idea Aqueduct used to have two turf courses!

Oh yeah.....I remember when the inner was installed.

[thespaah]

Maybe that other thread was right. Maybe Belmont is going to be torn down after all and they're just getting ready for the inevitable...:rolleyes:

Here's the rub......On a 9 furlong track, the configuration does not allow for 1 1/2 mile races because the 3/8ths pole is on the far turn.

[thespaah]

And this means turf sprints at AQU - at last!

But I hope they dismantle the permanent rail separating the two turf courses, so as to turn it into another Gulfstream/Laurel type course.

Given the deplorable condition of what is loosely defined as a turf course at Gulfstream, I cannot think of anything WORSE than copying anything Gulfstream does in that regard.
On the other hand Laurel, which ironically is owned by the same company, has the wide turf course temp rail configuration, is a well conditioned turf track.
So pick yer poison

[thespaah]

This move was also made with the Breeders' Cup in mind: Since there are now turf sprint races in the Breeders' Cup, it would not have been feasible to run the Breeders' Cup at Aqueduct in its up-until-now configuration.

Another thing I would like to see done is to bring back the old Aqueduct summer meeting, which can begin the Wednesday after the Belmont Stakes, which can be held on Belmont's closing day. That way, the big 1 3/16-mile (the Suburban Handicap and Brooklyn Handicap had been run at that distance at various times) and 1 1/14-mile (the Dwyer was contested at 1 1/4 miles during the Aqueduct summer meet) dirt stakes races can be run there, running them at Belmont giving far too great an advantage to the inside posts - and to avoid cutting the length of the Saratoga meet, it can always be extended if necessary, as if it hasn't been extended before - and is there anything in either the Ten Commandments or the U.S. Constitution that states that thou shalt not race at Saratoga past Labor Day? Then the end of the Belmont fall meet can be pushed back as well to avoid shortening that either.

Thous shalt not race at Saratoga after Labor Day because after the first Monday in September all of the tourists have gone home.
Pushing Belmont past Halloween is a risky proposition because of the weather.
November in the NYC metro area can be mild....Or as cold as a well digger's ass.
Per accuweather.com....For the first two weeks of November, the normal high ranges from 59 down to 56 by the 14th of the month.
The normal low starts at 45 and goes to 43 by November 14th.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Aren't you overthinking this just a wee bit?
...

Maybe, but I think I did it in half as many posts. :D

[thespaah]

Saratoga is one of the few things in racing that works and is highly successful as is. Why would you want to mess with it just so there can be an Aqueduct summer meeting?

BINGO.....
When that stupid accounting thing went down with NYRA and then the thing with other companies bidding to run the three tracks, my biggest fear was a new operator screwing with Saratoga in an attempt to milk every dime out of the place.
IMO, the Saratoga meet should be cut back to 5 weeks. THat last week of August going into Labor Day week has The Spa struggling to pull in 12.000 people. Once the college kids go back to school and families leave for home , vacation season is over in upstate NY. If one checks the lodging rates , they wil notice that during the last week of August, prices are lower than in during the "season"
So why not open Belmont ( as they used to) the week running into Labor Day?...

[thespaah]

What happens to the 3yo triple crown preps they have now?
Drop back to a mile or go to nine? Gotham back to a mile?

If you check the history of the Gotham Stakes, before the current distance. the race was referred to as "The Gotham Mile".....
In fact, the NYRA Derby prep races were the Swift Stakes run in Late January ..Followed by the Bayshore which was in in late Feb,.run at 7 furlongs. Then in March about 3 weeks later, the Gotham. Finally the Wood Memorial was always run three weeks before the Derby

[thespaah]

But some of Forego's greatest races were at the Aqueduct summer meet.

And I could now be onto something with my thread about how Belmont might be closing - and with Colonial Downs and its 1 1/4-mile dirt track apparently gone for good, closing Belmont would leave North America with no dirt track larger than 1 1/8 miles.

Yeah...There are . Bel, Sar, Aqu, Lrl, AP and GP.....

[thespaah]

Maybe, but I think I did it in half as many posts. :D:D:D:D:D

[Jeff P]

Just what we need, more permutations of turf rail/run ups. :puke:

While they're at it, maybe NYRA can install the same timing equipment as Gulfstream.



-jp

.

[cj]

While they're at it, maybe NYRA can install the same timing equipment as Gulfstream.



-jp

.

Check out races 5 and 8 at GP today. I'm certain one of them is way wrong, hard to tell which though.

[Tom]

Aren't you overthinking this just a wee bit?
Quite frankly, I applaud this. Its gets real tired when there are 6 or 7, 3/4 mile sprints on every card.



But now you will have one route distance every day instead.
Face, 9 furlongs is far beyond the horses of today. They hardly run any as it is.

I remember the Swift-Bay Shore - Gotham Mile and Wood series. The good old days, when horses would run more than two times before the Derby.

But now you will have one mile for the new 3yo routes then a 9 furlong Wood. A mile prep that close to the Wood would mean three mile preps that would draw less qualified horses than they do today.

Just commenting.
I have no dog in this fight.
They could make the new surface out of gold and I have no interest in anything that happens at Aqueduct. Cigar Mile and Wood. That is my limit.

[Tom]

While they're at it, maybe NYRA can install the same timing equipment as Gulfstream.



-jp

.

.

[dilanesp]

While they're at it, maybe NYRA can install the same timing equipment as Gulfstream.



-jp

.

Isn't the timing system at Gulfstream a guy in the press box counting "one thousand one, one thousand two"?

[thespaah]

Isn't the timing system at Gulfstream a guy in the press box counting "one thousand one, one thousand two"?

A metronome.

[cnollfan]

Here's the rub......On a 9 furlong track, the configuration does not allow for 1 1/2 mile races because the 3/8ths pole is on the far turn.

When Belmont was rebuilt in the 60s it was closed for five years. They ran the Belmont Stakes at Aqueduct and did start on the far turn. Maybe it was OK because everybody knew it was temporary.

[dilanesp]

When Belmont was rebuilt in the 60s it was closed for five years. They ran the Belmont Stakes at Aqueduct and did start on the far turn. Maybe it was OK because everybody knew it was temporary.

It wasn't such a big deal partly because the Belmont in those days rarely drew a large field.

I certainly wouldn't want 14 horses starting on the far turn at Aqueduct.

[affirmedny]

1963 Belmont at Aqu


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAZfr_QE2sQ