CA Universal Healthcare

[delayjf]

lawmakers are pushing for Universal Healthcare for the entire state of CA. I enthusiastically support CA's move to single payer healthcare - the sooner the state collapses the better.



http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-single-payer-healthcare-20170426-story.html

[classhandicapper]

lawmakers are pushing for Universal Healthcare for the entire state of CA. I enthusiastically support CA's move to single payer healthcare - the sooner the state collapses the better.



http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-single-payer-healthcare-20170426-story.html

The sooner it collapses the sooner people will figure out CA is on the wrong path and not be tempted to mimic any if its short term successes.

The problem is we are ALL likely to pick up the tab in a federal bailout.

[chadk66]

awesome, what do we have to do to promote this:headbanger:

[_______]

Canada's enourmously popular single payer national health system started with one province, Saskatchewan.

It's success there led to other provinces adopting similar laws and eventually, the national government.

Similar legislation already passed the California legislature but was vetoed by then Governor Schwarzenegger. I would be surprised if this has legs now absent Congress rolling back Obamacare without a reasonable replacement.

If that happens though, you might see California move forward. Then you will in a few years have a laboratory to test everyone's theories about the dangers of a government run health system.

[PaceAdvantage]

Then you will in a few years have a laboratory to test everyone's theories about the dangers of a government run health system.Been there, done that. It's called the VA. Heard any positive stories about that government run healthcare system lately?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Been there, done that. It's called the VA. Heard any positive stories about that government run healthcare system lately?

People seem fond of Medicare. Granted, it's a payor, not a system (i.e., a network of providers).

As for the VA, I don't even know why it exists. I believe vets deserves the best care available. So why not provide them with Medicare benefits? One could argue the VA docs/nurses specialize in dealing with vets' issues. Perhaps there's some merit to that point, but there's an easy solution: absorb some of the VA medical staff into the existing private hospital system or large doctors' practices (give the hospitals/docs a subsidy to do so) -- probably cheaper than running the entire VA and it would most likely result in much better care.

[chadk66]

Canada's enourmously popular single payer national health system started with one province, Saskatchewan.

It's success there led to other provinces adopting similar laws and eventually, the national government.

Similar legislation already passed the California legislature but was vetoed by then Governor Schwarzenegger. I would be surprised if this has legs now absent Congress rolling back Obamacare without a reasonable replacement.

If that happens though, you might see California move forward. Then you will in a few years have a laboratory to test everyone's theories about the dangers of a government run health system.If only it was enormously popular in Canada:lol:. I have relatives in Sask and they hate it. And I have many friends up there (had a cabin in sask. for years) and they don't have much good to say about it. Damn expensive. Also my sister is an NP in oncology. Treats a couple hundred Canadians a year in Minneapolis. If it was so good she wouldn't be doing that.

[chadk66]

People seem fond of Medicare. Granted, it's a payor, not a system (i.e., a network of providers).

As for the VA, I don't even know why it exists. I believe vets deserves the best care available. So why not provide them with Medicare benefits? One could argue the VA docs/nurses specialize in dealing with vets' issues. Perhaps there's some merit to that point, but there's an easy solution: absorb some of the VA medical staff into the existing private hospital system or large doctors' practices (give the hospitals/docs a subsidy to do so) -- probably cheaper than running the entire VA and it would most likely result in much better care.that's what is happening.

[_______]

If only it was enormously popular in Canada:lol:. I have relatives in Sask and they hate it. And I have many friends up there (had a cabin in sask. for years) and they don't have much good to say about it. Damn expensive. Also my sister is an NP in oncology. Treats a couple hundred Canadians a year in Minneapolis. If it was so good she wouldn't be doing that.


https://www.healthcare-now.org/blog/new-poll-shows-canadians-overwhelmingly-support-public-health-care/

Your relatives and friends are a minority in their own country.

And anyone from Canada complaining about the expense of health care to an American should be laughed out of the room by their American friend. The Canadian system has many problems. But being more expensive than their southern neighbor's isn't one of them.

[Greyfox]

Damn expensive. .

Absolutely not true!

Canadians pay monthly Health Care premiums which are quite low in comparison to the U.S.A.
Federal and Provincial Governments provide coverage.
Insurance companies are not involved.
Canadians however pay higher taxes than Americans on most goods and services.


http://blog.taxresource.ca/tax-rates/provincial-health-premiums/

By the way, the man who started the Canadian Medical Coverage was Tommy Douglas of Saskatchewan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Douglas

He was Kiefer Sutherland's maternal grand-father!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiefer_Sutherland

[chadk66]

Absolutely not true!

Canadians pay monthly Health Care premiums which are quite low in comparison to the U.S.A.
Federal and Provincial Governments provide coverage.
Insurance companies are not involved.
Canadians however pay higher taxes than Americans on most goods and services.


http://blog.taxresource.ca/tax-rates/provincial-health-premiums/

By the way, the man who started the Canadian Medical Coverage was Tommy Douglas of Saskatchewan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Douglas

He was Kiefer Sutherland's maternal grand-father!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiefer_Sutherlandbut what you don't realize is their provincial and national tax rates exploded after they launched their healthcare. what you see/hear/read regarding their system is mostly a fantasy. fake news if you will. So how is it my sister treats all those canadians a year :lol:. But your entitled to believe what you want;)

[johnhannibalsmith]

As ultra-long underscore alluded, this is the sort of thing everyone should like to see. Decentralized policy making on major issues that offers insight into one of the realistically viable (if not popular) routes for a national system to adopt. Let the people that overwhelmingly support such a system beta test it and see if it is worth buying into. Conservative principles (once upon a time) at work in a liberal application. When they say single payor across the land you are supposed to tell them to hold up a second, but when they come wanting to do it the right way, you shake their hand and thank them for playing by the good set of rules.

[Saratoga_Mike]

that's what is happening.

But only on a small scale. I'd like to see the entire VA provider network shutdown, then put the resources into the existing healthcare infrastructure. I think vets would receive much better/quicker care under such a structure.

[chadk66]

But only on a small scale. I'd like to see the entire VA provider network shutdown, then put the resources into the existing healthcare infrastructure. I think vets would receive much better/quicker care under such a structure.absolutely.

[Greyfox]

but what you don't realize is their provincial and national tax rates exploded after they launched their healthcare. what you see/hear/read regarding their system is mostly a fantasy. fake news if you will. So how is it my sister treats all those canadians a year :lol:. But your entitled to believe what you want;)

Canada has a population of 36 million people.
All , each and every one, are covered by Universal Health Care.
Your sister treats a couple of hundred?
That's not a very impressive argument.
If elective patients don't want to wait for something like hip surgery, or other elective procedures, they can become "Health Tourists" and pay through the nose privately for quicker service in other countries.
Obviously urgent and emergent cases get treated immediately, or as soon as possible.
As ________ pointed out, the vast majority of Canadians are quite happy with the Canadian Health Care plan.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Canadians however pay higher taxes than Americans on most goods and services.
d (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiefer_Sutherland)

Shocking. :pound:

[chadk66]

Canada has a population of 36 million people.
All , each and every one, are covered by Universal Health Care.
Your sister treats a couple of hundred?
That's not a very impressive argument.
If elective patients don't want to wait for something like hip surgery, or other elective procedures, they can become "Health Tourists" and pay through the nose privately for quicker service in other countries.
Obviously urgent and emergent cases get treated immediately, or as soon as possible.
As ________ pointed out, the vast majority of Canadians are quite happy with the Canadian Health Care plan.she's not doing hip replacements :lol: She's a cancer doc. That's usually pretty serious. And she's just one in a hospital/clinic with dozens of oncologists. And your going to trust polls after this past election?:lol:

[chadk66]

anybody that thinks Canada's system is so good, google "Canadian healthcare debacle" or something of that sort. You'll get to read nightmares for hours :coffee:

[_______]

anybody that thinks Canada's system is so good, google "Canadian healthcare debacle" or something of that sort. You'll get to read nightmares for hours :coffee:

You do realize that when you google anything and add "debacle", you aren't going to get a balanced view, right?

If someone suggested you google "Trump debacle" as a serious read on his administration, wouldn't you think they were an idiot?

I know...polls are bad. And fact bubbles are so comforting.

But still...there has to be some small part of you that dies a little when you post utter nonsense.

Or is this what it looks like after that part is already dead?

[JustRalph]

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40335

Flashback on the subject

Even more below

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60701

Even......more
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66287

[Lose The Juice]

It works in Australia. Not in Canada:

"...The evidence in this case shows that delays in the public health care system are widespread, and that, in some serious cases, patients die as a result of waiting lists for public health care. The evidence also demonstrates that the prohibition against private health insurance and its consequence of denying people vital health care result in physical and psychological suffering that meets a threshold test of seriousness. [112] [123]"

https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/2237/index.do

[Lemon Drop Husker]

OK. So what is the reality?'

We have a bunch of fat ****s that don't pay a dime for anything and bleeding hearts want to give them coverage.

Where does that coverage come from?

Yep, us normal, tax paying adults

If you want to reform Health Care, get people off there asses if they want coverage. Clock in at least once week or you don't get shit. Visit your doc, do what he says, and if you don't get better results, then **** you.

Why do I have to pay for fat ass sally with 7 kids?

[Greyfox]

Why do I have to pay for fat ass sally with 7 kids?

Well you shouldn't have married her and kept knocking her up. :lol:

[TBD]

The real question to ask. What is the population of Canada? What is the population of the United States? How does the two Countries even relate when it comes to health care.

[Lose The Juice]

36 mil to 330 mil, hence no comparison. Your point is more than valid.

Did Neil Young have his aneurysm treated in his native Canada? 'fraid not...

[chadk66]

You do realize that when you google anything and add "debacle", you aren't going to get a balanced view, right?

If someone suggested you google "Trump debacle" as a serious read on his administration, wouldn't you think they were an idiot?

I know...polls are bad. And fact bubbles are so comforting.

But still...there has to be some small part of you that dies a little when you post utter nonsense.

Or is this what it looks like after that part is already dead?then try something like "truth about Canada's healthcare system" :pound:

[_______]

then try something like "truth about Canada's healthcare system" :pound:

You might want to try plain old "Canadian Health Care" if you ever want to risk scary information that might bust your bubble.

Or you could keep adding modifiers that confirm your bias.

Whatever you do, don't google "Truth about Donald Trump".

[hcap]

then try something like "truth about Canada's healthcare system" :pound:The US does not do well ranked among the top developed economies ans spends on the average twice as much ao health care as the average of the others.
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/media/images/publications/fund-report/2014/june/davis_mirror_2014_es1_for_web.jpg?h=511&w=740&la=en

.................................................. ..

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/media/images/publications/issue-brief/2015/oct/squires_oecd_exhibit_01.png?h=720&w=960&la=en

[chadk66]

The US does not do well ranked among the top developed economies ans spends on the average twice as much ao health care as the average of the others.
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/media/images/publications/fund-report/2014/june/davis_mirror_2014_es1_for_web.jpg?h=511&w=740&la=en

.................................................. ..

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/media/images/publications/issue-brief/2015/oct/squires_oecd_exhibit_01.png?h=720&w=960&la=enthat graph is meaningless when you consider the U.S. is the most obese society on the planet. What's important is curing disease. We lead the world in curing of diseases. Infant mortality is also a piss poor way to decide who is best. We deliver the highest number of pre mature infants in the world. Along with that comes a higher infant mortality rate. In most countries they wouldn't even deliver those babies alive.

[chadk66]

You might want to try plain old "Canadian Health Care" if you ever want to risk scary information that might bust your bubble.

Or you could keep adding modifiers that confirm your bias.

Whatever you do, don't google "Truth about Donald Trump".how many people do you know from Canada and how much time have you spent there?

[hcap]

that graph is meaningless when you consider the U.S. is the most obese society on the planet. What is "meaningless" is your anecdotal examples of Caanadien health care. Prove your asseveration that obesity explains the very poor showing of the US and that is also the main reason we spend on the average twice as much as the others.

PS: I know many know many more Canadians that are hugely in favor and happy with their health system. Anecdote evidence is very flimsy.

[delayjf]

The US does not do well ranked among the top developed economies ans spends on the average twice as much ao health care as the average of the others

This is only one factor affecting the cost of healthcare in the US, but when you consider what the average doctor / nurse makes in those countries compared to doctors / nurses in the US, is it any wonder we pay more for our healthcare?

[Greyfox]

Jimmy Kimmel's emotional plea for pre-existing conditions to be covered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmWWoMcGmo0

[hcap]

I posted on the CO2 thread about the current anti science bias of the current leading politicians and it appears as rampant on this thread as well

http://www.salon.com/2017/05/02/alabama-congressman-people-who-lead-good-lives-dont-have-preexisting-conditions/

Alabama congressman: “People who lead good lives” don’t have preexisting
Rep. Mo Brooks of Alabama, who during an interview with CNN’s Jake Tapper on Monday claimed that “people who lead good lives” don’t have to worry about dealing with pre-existing conditions — like a stroke, or heart problems or birth defects.

..As Brooks told Tapper: “My understanding is that (the new proposal) will allow insurance companies to require people who have higher health care costs to contribute more to the insurance pool. That helps offset all these costs, thereby reducing the cost to those people who lead good lives, they’re healthy, they’ve done the things to keep their bodies healthy. And right now, those are the people — who’ve done things the right way — that are seeing their costs skyrocketing.”

Brooks is a member of the House Freedom Caucus

[Greyfox]

Mo Brooks elevator obviously stops far short of the top floor.
That was a moronic thing for him to say.
Tell that to Kimmel's baby.

[hcap]

Mo Brooks elevator obviously stops far short of the top floor.
That was a moronic thing for him to say.There is a fake mistaken attitude of oversimplifying Darwin's evolutionary theory and is reduced to "survival of the fittest" and expanded to believing that also controls random events such as the malfunctions of everything else including illness and states stupidly those victims of those malfunctions are to blame morally.

[chadk66]

we're number one at curing diseases and frankly that's all that matters.

[_______]

we're number one at curing diseases and frankly that's all that matters.

I'm not saying this is wrong. But the "this is all that matters" goes a long way in explaining why we pay so much more than any other western nation for health care.

Despite any stories your Canadian friends tell you.

And in answer to your earlier questions:

Plenty and probably not enough. Not that either answer could possibly change the fact that Canadians overwhelmingly approve their health care system.

[jimmyb]

Been there, done that. It's called the VA. Heard any positive stories about that government run healthcare system lately?


I have had nothing but positive experiences with VA healthcare. No problems getting appointments and the care I get is second to none. Maybe others on this site have had a contrary experience?

[hcap]

we're number one at curing diseases and frankly that's all that matters."Curing" disease is directly related to what the patient can afford in the US. But as an overall health care system both treating and "curing" chronic and more exotic diseases are dependent on access to proper care. We are not as good as other countries.

The ACA helped, but a poor substitute for single payer

http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/why-america-is-losing-the-health-race
June 11, 2014

Two major reports, both released last year, provide further elaboration of this apparent paradox. The first, “The State of US Health, 1990-2010,” documented trends in mortality and morbidity across the thirty-four member countries of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (O.E.C.D.). The study, published in The Journal of the American Medical Association (to which I am a contributing writer), showed that both life expectancy and healthy-life expectancy improved in the United States over two decades. But the pace of those improvements was considerably slower in the United States: in 1990, the U.S. ranked twentieth among O.E.C.D. countries for life expectancy, and fourteenth for healthy-life expectancy; by 2010, it had fallen to twenty-seventh and twenty-sixth, respectively. The other charts and tables in the report—about heart, lung, and kidney disease; diabetes; injuries and homicides; depression; and drug abuse—all show Americans suffering poorer health.

[mostpost]

Been there, done that. It's called the VA. Heard any positive stories about that government run healthcare system lately?
False equivalency. VA is a government run health care system. Single Payer is not. In single payer, privately owned hospitals. religiously run hospitals and public hospitals provide the care while payment is made by the government. Providers-such as doctors, nurses, etc-could work for themselves, or healthcare corporations or even governmental bodies.

I know that is difficult for you to comprehend this, but it is true that Medicare is more efficient than private insurance..

[chadk66]

I'm not saying this is wrong. But the "this is all that matters" goes a long way in explaining why we pay so much more than any other western nation for health care.

Despite any stories your Canadian friends tell you.

And in answer to your earlier questions:

Plenty and probably not enough. Not that either answer could possibly change the fact that Canadians overwhelmingly approve their health care system.the reason our healthcare is so expensive is because our Doctors demand more money. And we pay it. Also, we are probably the only country left in the world that has healthcare a free enterprise. Which means those other countries aren't contributing much if anything to research and development for medical devices, equipment and prescription drugs. If we go to socialized medicine advancements in medical will fall to a snails pace if at all.

[chadk66]

"Curing" disease is directly related to what the patient can afford in the US. But as an overall health care system both treating and "curing" chronic and more exotic diseases are dependent on access to proper care. We are not as good as other countries.

The ACA helped, but a poor substitute for single payer

http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/why-america-is-losing-the-health-race
June 11, 2014and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know why that is. but the liberals seemed to be buffalo'd by it :pound:

[chadk66]

False equivalency. VA is a government run health care system. Single Payer is not. In single payer, privately owned hospitals. religiously run hospitals and public hospitals provide the care while payment is made by the government. Providers-such as doctors, nurses, etc-could work for themselves, or healthcare corporations or even governmental bodies.

I know that is difficult for you to comprehend this, but it is true that Medicare is more efficient than private insurance.. Pace, now you know why abortion is still legal.

[mostpost]

Absolutely not true!

Canadians pay monthly Health Care premiums which are quite low in comparison to the U.S.A.
Federal and Provincial Governments provide coverage.
Insurance companies are not involved.
Canadians however pay higher taxes than Americans on most goods and services.


http://blog.taxresource.ca/tax-rates/provincial-health-premiums/

By the way, the man who started the Canadian Medical Coverage was Tommy Douglas of Saskatchewan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Douglas

He was Kiefer Sutherland's maternal grand-father!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiefer_Sutherland
Canadian Income Tax rates range from 15% to 33% in 2017
US Income Tax rates range from 10% to 39.6%.
A Canadian earning $50,000 a year pays $742.95 less in income tax than a citizen of the US. Of course that is just considering the basic rates, and not any deductions that may apply.

As of 2011 Americans paid Social Security (and Medicare) tax of 5.65% up to $106,800; while Canadians paid 4.95% up to $44,800 to the Canadian equivalent.

Canada has a national sales tax of 5%, Whereas the US has no national sales tax. On the other hand, if your link is correct Canadians pay about one fourth what Americans do for HI Premiums. And low income Canadians can be eligible for subsidies.

Oh, there are no deductibles, coinsurance or copays in Canada.

The one downside of the Canadian system is that prescriptions are not covered.

[Greyfox]

The one downside of the Canadian system is that prescriptions are not covered.

Prescriptions aren't much of a problem.
Nearly all Canadians have access to Blue Cross Insurance for medications for a low monthly fee.
Individuals on Blue Cross pay about 25% of the pill costs.
http://www.bluecross.ca/en/index.html

The Canadian system is a good one.
The main complaints are about wait times for Elective Surgery.
You might wait a year for a hip replacement or become a health tourist and pay through the nose at a private clinic or foreign hospital.

[PaceAdvantage]

I know that is difficult for you to comprehend this, but it is true that Medicare is more efficient than private insurance..Oh yes, so difficult to comprehend. May I have some more soup please?

[mostpost]

that graph is meaningless when you consider the U.S. is the most obese society on the planet. What's important is curing disease. We lead the world in curing of diseases. Infant mortality is also a piss poor way to decide who is best. We deliver the highest number of pre mature infants in the world. Along with that comes a higher infant mortality rate. In most countries they wouldn't even deliver those babies alive.
There are seventeen countries with a higher obesity rate than the United States. Canada's rate is only 7% lower than the US.

[woodtoo]

Prescriptions aren't much of a problem.
Nearly all Canadians have access to Blue Cross Insurance for medications for a low monthly fee.
Individuals on Blue Cross pay about 25% of the pill costs.
http://www.bluecross.ca/en/index.html

The Canadian system is a good one.
The main complaints are about wait times for Elective Surgery.
You might wait a year for a hip replacement or become a health tourist and pay through the nose at a private clinic or foreign hospital.

Phamacare partly covers prescription here in Manitoba depending on your income and prescription drug and dose amount(talk to your pharmacist)
some pay up to $250.00 and then coverage kicks in.

For $30 a month for Blue Cross it will/may cover partial meds, chiropractor
visit, enhanced hospital room, and other things like casts, devises etc.

Unfortunately nearing the age of 60 I have used the health care system muchly lately for blood tests (too many) MIR's, EKG's, and numerous other tests. Some overnight surgery's and have yet to receive a bill and the care
is always excellent
However if I took an ambulance it would cost about $500 for the 3 mile ride. :lol:

[Greyfox]

However if I took an ambulance it would cost about $500 for the 3 mile ride. :lol:

Alberta's ambulance rates are lower than that even if the ambulance goes a couple hundred miles and are free for Seniors.

http://www.health.alberta.ca/services/EHS-who-pays.html

"A new provincewide rate for ground ambulance service came into effect January 1, 2015. All Albertans, regardless of where they live in the province, will pay the same rate for ground ambulance service in Alberta.

The new provincial rate has two fees:

$250 if a patient is treated at the scene, but not transported to a hospital, or
$385 if a patient is transported to a hospital.
Important notice
An additional $200 surcharge applies to a patient who is a non-resident of Alberta, whether the patient is transported or not.
Payment for ambulance services is the responsibility of the patient unless they fall into a category of coverage as noted below.
Seniors

Seniors, age 65 and over, enrolled in the Coverage for Seniors program – which is free – do not receive a bill for ambulance services. Alberta Health pays the complete cost of ambulance services. The Coverage for Seniors program is administered by Alberta Blue Cross."

[fast4522]

You guys like to talk about Canada this and that, fact is single payer will not occur in your lifetime. Piss and moan all you want, the nuclear simple majority Senate is right around the corner.:bang::bang::bang:

[AndyC]

The Canadian system is a good one.
The main complaints are about wait times for Elective Surgery.
You might wait a year for a hip replacement or become a health tourist and pay through the nose at a private clinic or foreign hospital.

If my hip was causing excruciating pain I wouldn't want the government deeming the surgery "elective".

[chadk66]

Canadian Income Tax rates range from 15% to 33% in 2017
US Income Tax rates range from 10% to 39.6%.
A Canadian earning $50,000 a year pays $742.95 less in income tax than a citizen of the US. Of course that is just considering the basic rates, and not any deductions that may apply.

As of 2011 Americans paid Social Security (and Medicare) tax of 5.65% up to $106,800; while Canadians paid 4.95% up to $44,800 to the Canadian equivalent.

Canada has a national sales tax of 5%, Whereas the US has no national sales tax. On the other hand, if your link is correct Canadians pay about one fourth what Americans do for HI Premiums. And low income Canadians can be eligible for subsidies.

Oh, there are no deductibles, coinsurance or copays in Canada.

The one downside of the Canadian system is that prescriptions are not covered.and each province has a high sales tax. 6-8% in most from the last time I had looked. And their fees and such for everything they do or need up there is horrendous. Their gasoline is much higher than ours too. Well everything is higher up there by leaps and bounds. I live on a border city. They flock to our cities to buy stuff because it's far too expensive up there.

[chadk66]

There are seventeen countries with a higher obesity rate than the United States. Canada's rate is only 7% lower than the US.I'm curious what their populations are?

[chadk66]

If my hip was causing excruciating pain I wouldn't want the government deeming the surgery "elective".and that's exactly what happens. And also the reason they flock to the U.S. for care. If their healthcare was so great not a one would come here. After all our healthcare sucks says a few on this board. If ours sucks so bad and Canadians flock down here I'm not sure what to describe Canada's as then. :confused: I once say the numbers of Canadians treated at the Mayo Clinic. I don't recall what those were because it was a number of years ago. I do remember it being a rather amazing amount. My sister is a simple NP in oncology. And she see's 200 a year. That's pretty much one a day on average when you consider she works about 200 days a year. That doesn't account for the others on the staff. I'd guess their rate is far higher since she's just an NP. And this is cancer people. Not some piss ant meaningless disease.

[woodtoo]

The healthcare in both countries is more than acceptable in and of itself.
Insurance and delivery of services is where the differences and costs and
accessibility.

[_______]

You guys like to talk about Canada this and that, fact is single payer will not occur in your lifetime. Piss and moan all you want, the nuclear simple majority Senate is right around the corner.:bang::bang::bang:

Although this has become a discussion of the Canadian health care system with it's varied faults and positive attributes, it started as a discusssion of a proposal in the California legislature to establish a single payer system in that state.

Which is how the Canadian system was started (in a province).

Most Americans are unlikely to see single payer where they live. But, depending on what Congress passes to replace Obamacare, you might easily see it in the most populous state before the end of the decade.

[fast4522]

If California can afford it hey, it is not like California will become eligible for Federal moneys the other 49 States do not get. I will save comments about California when it becomes relevant.

[Tom]

I'm curious what their populations are?
Not that many people, but they are very very wide.

[delayjf]

If it happens, no matter what the particulars, you can bet you bottom dollar that a large part of the associated cost will be burdened by CA businesses and benefits will also be available to anyone residing in CA.

[highnote]

Been there, done that. It's called the VA. Heard any positive stories about that government run healthcare system lately?

My father was a WWII vet. The VA did a lot of good for him -- medical care, eyeglasses, check-ups, and the VA even paid for his nursing home costs.

He liked the camaraderie and sense of community he got from being around other vets.

I don't know how he would have managed without the VA.

[fast4522]

My father was a WWII vet. The VA did a lot of good for him -- medical care, eyeglasses, check-ups, and the VA even paid for his nursing home costs.

He liked the camaraderie and sense of community he got from being around other vets.

I don't know how he would have managed without the VA.


To be fair, could you say that was from a time when people were considered much better than a number. Or that today it is all about the system and not so much about the needs?

[highnote]

To be fair, could you say that was from a time when people were considered much better than a number. Or that today it is all about the system and not so much about the needs?

My dad was receiving services as recently as about 5 years ago. I doubt much has changed since then.

[MargieRose]

Not all VA Hospitals are poorly run, fortunately. For example, the VA Hospital in West Haven, CT has an excellent reputation for good and timely services. By contract, the hospital is staffed by mostly Yale New Haven Hospital doctors. I know several veterans who have had recurring positive experiences at this VA hospital and even if given a choice to go elsewhere, would not.

I have no doubt that improvement is needed in many VA hospitals around the country, but like with most reporting in the news, the worst of most anything is headlined.

[JustRalph]

http://hotair.com/archives/2017/05/08/horror-show-100-veterans-died-waiting-care-los-angeles-va-hospital/

LA has problems

[hcap]

Spoke to Ray Baker (Raybo). I worked closely with him on ALLDATA.
His brain cancer is under control. Being treated by the VA in Texas. He is very pleased.
I also was a close friend of Hammerhead. He was treated here in a NY VA. Not quite as positive as Ray and unfortunately passed away a few months go. But was overall happy about his treatment

Socialized medicine works as proven by all of the modern industrialized countries----to all of the world health care professionals other than republican non-health care non-professionals in the United Sates.

[MargieRose]

Spoke to Ray Baker (Raybo). I worked closely with him on ALLDATA.
His brain cancer is under control. Being treated by the VA in Texas. He is very pleased.
I also was a close friend of Hammerhead. He was treated here in a NY VA. Not quite as positive as Ray and unfortunately passed away a few months go. But was overall happy about his treatment

Socialized medicine works as proven by all of the modern industrialized countries----to all of the world health care professionals other than republican non-health care non-professionals in the United Sates.
The VA Hospitals work well in some locals, but they are a dismal failure in many more others...over all change/improvement IS needed.

Socialized ANYTHING based on LIES never works anywhere, as is obviously being proven with every day that passes with the current abomination known as Obama Care!

Tell me, why did Demo Obama LIE about the Demo health plan, in the first place? Why was it voted in by only the Demos without they even having read the bill?

"Only dead fish swim with the stream." ~ Malcoolm Muggeridge

[ElKabong]

Spoke to Ray Baker (Raybo). I worked closely with him on ALLDATA.
His brain cancer is under control. Being treated by the VA in Texas. He is very pleased.
I also was a close friend of Hammerhead. He was treated here in a NY VA. Not quite as positive as Ray and unfortunately passed away a few months go. But was overall happy about his treatment

Socialized medicine works as proven by all of the modern industrialized countries----to all of the world health care professionals other than republican non-health care non-professionals in the United Sates.

Do you know which Va hospital he goes to?

I've volunteered during holidays at the Dallas VA, it was horrendous. Shameful really. That was in the 2004 to 2006 timeframe for a program called Vet to Vet. Veterans volunteering to help current Vets needing assistance during winter holidays.

While Dallas was really bad I've heard nothing but good things about the twin cities VA in Minnesota. Hit and miss I guess

Iirc, Ray lived in gun barrel city which is about 90 minutes from the Dallas VA. I'm guessing he goes to the Dallas site, hopefully they've turned that place around (per your report here)

[hcap]

I admit anecdotal accounts are spotty. That's why I have posted now and in the past dozens of threads on healthcare global statistics on successful health care systems.

[delayjf]

The price tag on universal health care is in, and it’s bigger than California’s budget


http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article151960182.html

[Parkview_Pirate]

The price tag on universal health care is in, and it’s bigger than California’s budget


http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article151960182.html

We'll see that at the Federal level - the rising costs of Medicare and Medicaid will crush the Federal budget within five years.

The root cause of the health care problem is costs. It's a racket here in the U.S. You get treated more fairly at your local auto service center by at least receiving a quote for services prior to the work. To prevent criminal activity, numerous politicians, health care providers, insurance companies, and government drones need to go to jail.

20200

[fast4522]

We'll see that at the Federal level - the rising costs of Medicare and Medicaid will crush the Federal budget within five years.

The root cause of the health care problem is costs. It's a racket here in the U.S. You get treated more fairly at your local auto service center by at least receiving a quote for services prior to the work. To prevent criminal activity, numerous politicians, health care providers, insurance companies, and government drones need to go to jail.

20200

So by your logic, who goes to jail first and state why.