Tax Reform

[boxcar]

See if you can think this through. If there is less tax revenue, there will be less money available for people on food stamps and other entitlement programs.

Surely a religious soul like yourself would never turn your back on people in need.

No there won't. Now, see if you can think this through: Decreased taxes = more disposable income = more consumer spending = more business = greater productivity demand = more more jobs and larger tax base. Also, the government should be in the proactive business of REDUCING the welfare rolls in favor of fostering more productive citizens and legal alien residents. Shirley, you can see how this latter strategy is both morally and fiscally superior to your preserving or even growing the welfare state. :coffee:

[chadk66]

I believe I read where the number on food stamps, etc has already dropped significantly.

[lamboguy]

probably the main reason why this country owes out $20 trillion now is that they give away all this money to the bankers via the fractional banking system.

for those that don't know how that works, i will attempt to explain it.

you walk into a bank and deposit $1000. the banker uses that $1000 to borrow $10,000 @ 1/4 of a percent interest rate. they now take that $10,000 and buy US treasury bills and bonds @ 2 1/4%. the bank just made $200 on the original $1000 that was deposited in their bank with no risk. they don't help the economy or do anything good for anyone else but themselves. to top it off when it comes time to pay taxes on that $200 they have depreciation allowances and tax credits to knock the number down to close to nothing.

the bankers make hundreds of billion's every year with this crazy system. the bankers make sure they have the right people in place in the congress so that they don't lose this welfare. right now they have nothing to worry about!

[elysiantraveller]

And this is a bad thing?

Nope.

Again if you would read some of my comments on the matter without knee-jerk partisan reaction you would know I favor a corporate tax cut.

Here are my issues:

- The the rest of the cuts I'm not on board with. They aren't necessary.

- Making the ACA more insolvent without a solution guaranteeing it will require future taxpayer bailouts.

- Cutting revenue before pursuing spending initiatives

- Doing nothing to reform our entitlement system which is going to be the real driver of future debt.

It all boils down to credits and debits. This plan decreases revenue while increasing spending.

[elysiantraveller]

And to think there was a time when Republicans were clamoring for a balanced budget amendment (which I opposed btw ;) )...:lol::lol::lol:

Now it's, "20 trillion... 30 trillion who really cares anyway?"

At least Obama attempted after 2012 to cut into deficit spending. His plan sucked. It projected out terribly. But at least he put a shiny band aid on the open heart wound. ;)

I'll reserve complete judgment until I see what follows on the agenda after this. I'm not optimistic though. I'm guessing this administration intends to rack up the credit card too...

[fast4522]

And this is a bad thing?

We can not afford what he advocates, everyone who pays taxes should see relief. If you do not work then that is another story, we can grow our way out of some problems.

[boxcar]

Nope.

Then there is no reason in the world to be anxious about the other issues you have raised. The much improved economic environment will take care of your other "issues", hopefully with the much anticipated exception to ACA which I would dearly like to see die an agonizing death. It was a horrible idea to be begin with, so just let it die!

As far as the other cuts, taxpayers are entitled (I wasn't kidding) to keep as much as possible. It's their money; they earned it. And by them keeping it, they will spend more which will also breathe additional life into the economy.

[fast4522]

Then there is no reason in the world to be anxious about the other issues you have raised. The much improved economic environment will take care of your other "issues", hopefully with the much anticipated exception to ACA which I would dearly like to see die an agonizing death. It was a horrible idea to be begin with, so just let it die!

As far as the other cuts, taxpayers are entitled (I wasn't kidding) to keep as much as possible. It's their money; they earned it. And by them keeping it, they will spend more which will also breathe additional life into the economy.

When people getting health insurance at work grows from 170 million to 200 million the ACA will be long gone and just a bad memory.

[_______]

This should have it's own topic as it'll be in the news at least through August (more likely December).

My early questions are:

1) What constitutes a "business"?

In theory, individuals pay the individual rate and businesses pay the corporate rate. But most businesses aren't set up as corporations. They're LLP's, partnerships, or other entities that pass their profits straight through to their owners (who obviously pay the individual rate).

Right now that doesn't matter because the difference between the individual and corporate rates is minimal. But if the corporate tax rate is less than half the individual rate, it will make a HUGE difference.n

If there is no change, the choice of business structure matters a lot. If there is a change where LLP's and partnerships pay the much lower corporate rate, what prevents wealthy individuals from sheltering income in perfectly legal business structures?

During the campaign, Trump boasted of not paying anything more than he was legally required. Do we really want to widen that door?

2) What about the deficit?

Both the Reagan and Bush2 tax cuts were championed as "revenue neutral" as they would pay for themselves through economic growth. In neither case was that true and the deficit grew under both. That argument is being raised a third time here.

I'm not overly worried about the deficit but I know others here have expressed greater concern. I get that it limits our future options. Do we accept the 2x failed logic here or is the deficit only a worry during a Democratic administration?

Props on the lower corporate tax rate. It’ll help growth.

The pass through is one of many ridiculous give always. Basically a smash and grab only no one gets arrested for having good lobbiests.

Debt isn’t that big an issue while interest rates remain low. Hope for our grandkids sake it’s the new normal.

I think bringing our corporate tax rate into line with the rest of the world and eliminating the double taxation our corporations faced on money earned overseas is probably enough of a good to balance the smash and grab. But I probably won’t live long enough to have to pay for it.

Let’s party like it’s not 2049.

[elysiantraveller]

Then there is no reason in the world to be anxious about the other issues you have raised. The much improved economic environment will take care of your other "issues", hopefully with the much anticipated exception to ACA which I would dearly like to see die an agonizing death. It was a horrible idea to be begin with, so just let it die!

As far as the other cuts, taxpayers are entitled (I wasn't kidding) to keep as much as possible. It's their money; they earned it. And by them keeping it, they will spend more which will also breathe additional life into the economy.

Can't just leave sick people who did what they were supposed to do out to dry. It sounds good here but in reality you can't do that to good American people.

As far as this new golden age... the cards are pretty heavily stacked against that. Growth will be better sure; it's hard to imagine a more regulatory environment than the previous administration but this thought thay tax cuts to middle class Americans boost growth has been proven to be patently false. Americans are very bad at investing in the future. Hell look at our government and you can see that. ;)

Cutting corporate taxes boost investments, innovation, and r&d. Cutting the average Joe's gets a TV off the shelf.

I'm all for lower taxes but only if spending is cut. Change entitlement eligibility ages. Revamp the safety net. Start exchanging short term for long term debt. And don't make a bad insurance program even more financially unstable without having some clue as to how to address the problem.

[elysiantraveller]

Props on the lower corporate tax rate. It’ll help growth.

The pass through is one of many ridiculous give always. Basically a smash and grab only no one gets arrested for having good lobbiests.

Debt isn’t that big an issue while interest rates remain low. Hope for our grandkids sake it’s the new normal.

I think bringing our corporate tax rate into line with the rest of the world and eliminating the double taxation our corporations faced on money earned overseas is probably enough of a good to balance the smash and grab. But I probably won’t live long enough to have to pay for it.

Let’s party like it’s not 2049.

^^^

Yup and your previous post as well.

I don't buy the revenue neutral pitch either. Be honest and call it what it is a longer term investment plan that will further increase both deficit spending and the national debt. At least that's intellectually honest. Still would have a hard time selling me though since our workforce is shrinking while the rest of the world's major producers is growing

[elysiantraveller]

When people getting health insurance at work grows from 170 million to 200 million the ACA will be long gone and just a bad memory.

That sounds good but we are pretty close to our natural unemployment rate. Even if this were to occur it's not overnight. Those better jobs that offer benefits need to be filled by workers already working in different jobs which in turn would have to filled. Couple that with a shrinking and aging workforce and the problem isn't easily fixed that way.

Possible sure but it will have to be legislated along. In the meantime the catastrophe that is the ACA... Now aided by the current government, they are now complicit in this, has a huge financial crises looming on the horizon.

[porchy44]

Let none of us fool ourselves. We know how this is going to end. When the deficit gets too large, Our country will eventually need to make some cuts. Since Social Security and Medicare are the two largest items in our federal budget....The inevitable will happen. So yes, lets party like its not 2049 !

[elysiantraveller]

Let none of us fool ourselves. We know how this is going to end. When the deficit gets too large, Our country will eventually need to make some cuts. Since Social Security and Medicare are the two largest items in our federal budget....The inevitable will happen. So yes, lets party like its not 2049 !

Well what will likely happen is that the millennial generation will inflate their way out of the problem.

And yes... that's really gonna suck for the older people.

[porchy44]

Well what will likely happen is that the millennial generation will inflate their way out of the problem.

And yes... that's really gonna suck for the older people.

I guess that is a way the millennials could "get even" with the baby boomers.
Make every 100 dollar bill In accumulated wealth worth about a dollar.

[elysiantraveller]

I guess that is a way the millennials could "get even" with the baby boomers.
Make every 100 dollar bill In accumulated wealth worth about a dollar.

Honestly unless Treasury starts issuing longer term paper there won't really be another option.

This is one area where staunch conservatives, normal economists, and even Paul Krugman all agree.

Current debt is essentially an adjustable rate mortgage. Treasury should be trying to buy it back and issue out 30-40-50 year notes instead. It's the treasury it can issue whatever the market will buy and it makes much more sense than using the 10yr bond for what is assuredly long term (generational type long-term) debt at this time.

[ElKabong]

Senate approved 51-48, final version to be voted on Wednesday. Overall I like it. Some negatives, but haters gonna hate, whiners gonna whine.

[lamboguy]

in our world, nothing good lasts forever. the unexpected always shows up at some point in time. the unexpected could be in the form of nasty war's or terrible viruses and diseases that kill off large portions of the world. when the earth gets to crowed things just happen. our economic system here is built like a chain letter. chain letter always ends up not to good for the last few that are holding on to the letter.

[porchy44]

Senate approved 51-48, final version to be voted on Wednesday. Overall I like it. Some negatives, but haters gonna hate, whiners gonna whine.

It will be law soon. Done deal. Dems you don't like it, get over it. A bit funny how the GOP loves to "rub it in". Referring to it (first thing said) when interviewed by the media as the "middle class tax cut". The Same way I refer to my mother-in-law as "sweetie pie".

[Tom]

Is this a surprise?
Last thing the DNC wants is an educated electorate.
So they stick it to parents who have the initiative to take charge of theri children's education.

In other word, ***** You, we are owned by the unions.

The party of filth, depravity, corruption and now add ignorance.

Not one dems in the senate voted for this.
My litmus test for a GOOD bill.

ps, Dan, mosite, feel free to pay MORE than you are required too, if you are so worried about your grandchildren. No one will stop you....unless you are all talkie and no walkie.:pound:

[Tom]

Since Social Security and Medicare are the two largest items in our federal budget....The inevitable will happen. So yes, lets party like its not 2049 !

BS. SS was paid for by working people all their lives.
We need SS more than we need almost any other expenditures.
SS needs to be untouchable.
The money we get from SS is OUR money, albeit stupidly invested.
OUR money. End of story.

God knows the useless government wastes FAR more money.

[davew]

S

BS. SS was paid for by working people all their lives.
We need SS more than we need almost any other expenditures.
SS needs to be untouchable.
The money we get from SS is OUR money, albeit stupidly invested.
OUR money. End of story.

God knows the useless government wastes FAR more money.

We all have been involved with a state sponsored ponzi scheme - our money has already been paid out to previous investors.

[boxcar]

Can't just leave sick people who did what they were supposed to do out to dry. It sounds good here but in reality you can't do that to good American people.

As far as this new golden age... the cards are pretty heavily stacked against that. Growth will be better sure; it's hard to imagine a more regulatory environment than the previous administration but this thought thay tax cuts to middle class Americans boost growth has been proven to be patently false. Americans are very bad at investing in the future. Hell look at our government and you can see that. ;)

Cutting corporate taxes boost investments, innovation, and r&d. Cutting the average Joe's gets a TV off the shelf.

I'm all for lower taxes but only if spending is cut. Change entitlement eligibility ages. Revamp the safety net. Start exchanging short term for long term debt. And don't make a bad insurance program even more financially unstable without having some clue as to how to address the problem.

People weren't drying in droves before Obamination Care -- and they wouldn't die in droves after it.

And IF Americans are very bad " at investing in the future" (or did you mean to say in their own personal future), then what is that to you? Since you're obviously so much smarter than your fellow Americans and realize all this, just take care of your own future and let the rest of us take care of ours.

And yes, cutting the "average Joe's" (did you say that looking down the long slope of your condescending snout!?) taxes will take TVs and other things off the shelf -- and this is bad? Go back and look at my formula that I gave to Nooo Joisey. For your info, spending money in the private sector is precisely what drives, stimulates and revitalizes the economy since there inevitably results a positive chain reaction to this spending, such as creating new jobs? New jobs bad too? :coffee:

By the way...have you ever owned and operated a business in your life?

[elysiantraveller]

People weren't drying in droves before Obamination Care -- and they wouldn't die in droves after it.

And IF Americans are very bad " at investing in the future" (or did you mean to say in their own personal future), then what is that to you? Since you're obviously so much smarter than your fellow Americans and realize all this, just take care of your own future and let the rest of us take care of ours.

And yes, cutting the "average Joe's" (did you say that looking down the long slope of your condescending snout!?) taxes will take TVs and other things off the shelf -- and this is bad? Go back and look at my formula that I gave to Nooo Joisey. For your info, spending money in the private sector is precisely what drives, stimulates and revitalizes the economy since there inevitably results a positive chain reaction to this spending, such as creating new jobs? New jobs bad too? :coffee:

By the way...have you ever owned and operated a business in your life?

I never said anything about dying in droves. I'm talking about people who happen to be sick and went out and got insurance. They go back to filing medical bankruptcy now? The insurance companies are going to require more bailouts. It's just that simple.

Secondly the grow our way out of it model hasn't worked yet. For 2017 we would have to overcome a revenue shortfall of about half a trillion dollars or about 15%. So for every dollar Uncle Sam spent last year $0.15 of it was borrowed. This is all before hurricanes, wildfires, wars, etc.

And now we're cutting taxes. I'm not saying what you propose is impossible but that's a shit load of growth... being skeptical of your statement seems a far more realistic outlook.

[forced89]

The money we get from SS is OUR money, albeit stupidly invested.
OUR money. End of story.

If one lives long enough, it all adds up. In my 17 years of collecting SS my monthly payments have totaled over $350,000. I have never added up how much I paid in during my working years but at least the gap is narrowing.

[elysiantraveller]

As far as owning and operating a business yes I currently do. I run a mortgage brokerage outfit that does significant volume for the midwest. My immediate family also operates a staffing company that does around $90 million a year in billables.

So yes... to answer your point I do understand Keynesian economics, government stimulus (because that's what this truly is), and deficit spending. My answer is still no I don't think economic growth will increase government revenue by 20% anytime in the near future. History doesn't support that. The workforce demographics don't support that either. Neither do the spending hikes in the pipeline.

[Tom]

If one lives long enough, it all adds up. In my 17 years of collecting SS my monthly payments have totaled over $350,000. I have never added up how much I paid in during my working years but at least the gap is narrowing.

And others get a fraction back for their families by dying too early.
The whole scheme is a disgusting example of government screwing up everything it touches. The only fair way is for everyone who paid in to get it all back + interest. The way it is set up now that can't happen, so we all accepted blatant stealing by the useless government.

[FantasticDan]

Not one dems in the senate voted for this.
My litmus test for a GOOD bill.

ps, Dan, mosite, feel free to pay MORE than you are required too, if you are so worried about your grandchildren.

Wow, what a change in tune for Tommy! Cuz in years past, all he did was wail about the deficit and the poor grandchildren..

Here's what he said when the Obama admin requested $100M on medical research to map the human brain:


Odummy wants 100 million to pay for a project to map the human brain.
The jerk just doesn't get it. We are broke. There is no money.
Instead of trying to solve the fiscal disaster, this idiot is still digging us deeper. This is a direct assault on our grandchildren.

Let's see.. $100M to map the human brain: BAD.

Billions in permanent tax cuts for the wealthy: GOOD. :lol:

Here's what Tom said when the repubs voted to increase the debt celing:

They rolled over. Sniveling dogs, all of them. No difference between a republican moderate and a commie democrat. Our grandchildren were raped yesterday.


Oh dear, such harsh language! But Tommy stood against those "sniveling dog" republicans. What's changed now?

Oh yeah.. Tommy's doing his own sniveling.. at the feet of Trump :lol:

Here's a snippet from a govt shutdown debate:

No, this is a case of the repubs doing the responsible thing and freeing up money to keep the government running. The irresponsible ones are the party of NO, the dems, who insist on running up the debt for our grandchildren to carry.

Aww. Who's running up our debt now? What happened to the Tea Party that Tom loved so much?

Why, they floated away in Boston Harbor.. along with some other spineless jellyfish.. :lol:

[JustRalph]

I used to be a deficit hawk too......but after listening to this shit since the Reagan days.........it starts to become white noise.

If after what Obama did, more debt than all the Presidents before him combined, the debt didn’t kill the economy......I guess it’s a non factor in many people’s minds.

I don’t like it, but I don’t worry about it anymore in the slightest.

I figure I got ten years left if I’m lucky......it won’t ever be paid off in my lifetime

[boxcar]

As far as owning and operating a business yes I currently do. I run a mortgage brokerage outfit that does significant volume for the midwest. My immediate family also operates a staffing company that does around $90 million a year in billables.

So yes... to answer your point I do understand Keynesian economics, government stimulus (because that's what this truly is), and deficit spending. My answer is still no I don't think economic growth will increase government revenue by 20% anytime in the near future. History doesn't support that. The workforce demographics don't support that either. Neither do the spending hikes in the pipeline.

Then I'm at a loss to understand the rationale behind your "business sense" when you were so dismissive of Joe Average (or what that average Joe) buying TVs.

The key to paying off the debt is growing the economy AND no spending hikes in the pipeline.

Why is it an automatic, automatic automatic (forgive the redundancy) that government MUST spend more money year after year after year? No wonder government believes it has the green to do this since the electorate is filled with wild, crazy spendthrifts like yourself.

[elysiantraveller]

Then I'm at a loss to understand the rationale behind your "business sense" when you were so dismissive of Joe Average (or what that average Joe) buying TVs.

The key to paying off the debt is growing the economy AND no spending hikes in the pipeline.

Why is it an automatic, automatic automatic (forgive the redundancy) that government MUST spend more money year after year after year? No wonder government believes it has the green to do this since the electorate is filled with wild, crazy spendthrifts like yourself.

Because its been tried over and over again and hasn't really netted the results intended. Does it help? Sure. Does it correct a 20% budget shortfall? Nope.

Again... This would be a non-issue if we had already negotiated spending cuts but we haven't. Next on the agenda with this administration are issues that will increase spending.

Common business sense is you don't decide to pocket less money with the intention of spending more of it.

[elysiantraveller]

I used to be a deficit hawk too......but after listening to this shit since the Reagan days.........it starts to become white noise.

If after what Obama did, more debt than all the Presidents before him combined, the debt didn’t kill the economy......I guess it’s a non factor in many people’s minds.

I don’t like it, but I don’t worry about it anymore in the slightest.

I figure I got ten years left if I’m lucky......it won’t ever be paid off in my lifetime

Reagan was 30 years ago... Obama was 1.

The tune has changed and its because the guy racking up the credit card now has an R next to his name.

Think about it... for EVERY dollar spent about 1/8 of it was borrowed this year and that's not even counting the hurricanes.

I'm all good with lowering the corporate tax rate. I'm great with reducing regulations which save the economy and government money. However, we haven't even touched the spending portion of the agenda and we've crippled a large health care bill that will cost us in the future.

Guy ran as the King of Debt remember?

[JustRalph]

Read my post again....... I don’t care about it anymore. It’s white noise to me. I’m sure it’s that way for many.

Btw, in 2018 Ryan and Trump both say they are going after entitlements. That should fit with your theory or plan . Reduce spending 👍

[elysiantraveller]

Read my post again....... I don’t care about it anymore. It’s white noise to me. I’m sure it’s that way for many.

Btw, in 2018 Ryan and Trump both say they are going after entitlements. That should fit with your theory or plan . Reduce spending ��

My point is it wasn't just a year ago... maybe you weren't one of them then. Everyone complained about how horrible Obama was with the debt but now its just white noise to them?!?

They are targeting welfare reform not entitlements.

[FantasticDan]

Read my post again....... I don’t care about it anymore. It’s white noise to me. I’m sure it’s that way for many.
Didn't you also say you didn't care about ANYTHING anymore other than destroying your liberal enemy by any means necessary?

[JustRalph]

Didn't you also say you didn't care about ANYTHING anymore other than destroying your liberal enemy by any means necessary?

Well not "any” means.......

I mean I wouldn’t go shoot up a softball team ......or something like that........

[ElKabong]

Didn't you also say you didn't care about ANYTHING anymore other than destroying your liberal enemy by any means necessary?

Yes. Yes he did. He said that very thing while smoking a cigar while buying a semi automatic weapon at Walmart. That morning he drowned 3 puppies, beat his wife, cursed his kids, punched a homeless woman, threw hot coffee on a panhandler off I45, and drove to Austin just to say **** you to Tom Herman.... It's early signing day, and all....

That Ralph, he's a menace to be dealt with.

[FantasticDan]

Okay, for the benefit of the dim-witted..

Ralph just said he doesn't care about the deficit anymore.

Several months back, he also said he didn't care about the Russians or treason or anything as long as it resulted in "the destruction of the democratic party".

My reason for bringing that up after his deficit comment is just to remind Ralph we already know he doesn't care about pesky things like law or democracy or legislative process when it comes to forwarding his political agenda, because he has already stated as much.

I don't know why he or anyone would get defensive about it. It's not like he's not in good company around here..

[zico20]

Okay, for the benefit of the dim-witted..

Ralph just said he doesn't care about the deficit anymore.

Several months back, he also said he didn't care about the Russians or treason or anything as long as it resulted in "the destruction of the democratic party".

My reason for bringing that up after his deficit comment is just to remind Ralph we already know he doesn't care about pesky things like law or democracy or legislative process when it comes to forwarding his political agenda, because he has already stated as much.

I don't know why he or anyone would get defensive about it. It's not like he's not in good company around here..

He doesn't care about pesky things like the law or democracy? So he became a Democrat. :mad: We will convince him to come back from the dark side.

[Tom]

Well not "any” means.......

I mean I wouldn’t go shoot up a softball team ......or something like that........

You would not stoop to the level of a democrat?
Good for you.
Those libs - bad news.

[Tom]

Several months back, he also said he didn't care about the Russians or treason or anything as long as it resulted in "the destruction of the democratic party".

What is the difference between the DNC and the RUSSIANS?

You can have a successful detent with the RUSSIANS.

[Tom]

Wow, what a change in tune for Tommy! Cuz in years past, all he did was wail about the deficit and the poor grandchildren..

Ok, for the dimwitted, the ACA was never going to improve the economy or health care. It was only going put more people out of work and kill more jobs.
ACA could only add to the deficit.

(THIS is the part for dems and dims to take notes)

This cuts taxes and makes major reforms that will help the economy, help people make more money, thereby paying more taxes. The Anwar part alone is major.
This will help to reduce the deficit IF the dimwits on the left ( was that redundant?) agree to cut spending.

The hallmark of the Kenyan Krapshoot of Obama's policies was putting more and more people into dependency on taxpayers.

Try to keep up.....

[FantasticDan]

:lol: You need tap-dance lessons :blush:

Just own up to being a hypocrite. Again, you'll be in good company. :ThmbUp:

[elysiantraveller]

The Anwar part alone is major.

How?

I was all for it 15 years ago but with advances in fracking coupled with the fact were a net exporter of oil I don't see how it's that big of deal.

If we don't have to drill there I'd be nice to leave it as is.

[boxcar]

Because its been tried over and over again and hasn't really netted the results intended. Does it help? Sure. Does it correct a 20% budget shortfall? Nope.

Again... This would be a non-issue if we had already negotiated spending cuts but we haven't. Next on the agenda with this administration are issues that will increase spending.

Common business sense is you don't decide to pocket less money with the intention of spending more of it.

But why do we have to spend more? For example, food stamp giveaways are way down since the Obama era. Why can't we make cuts in other areas, as well? I just don't buy into your premise that America needs to continue in its unbridled, undisciplined spendthrift ways.

[woodtoo]

POTUS yet to sign Tax bill and already.....

Fifth Third Bancorp announces plan to raise minimum hourly wage to $15 for all employees, and a one time bonus of $1000 for over 13,000 employees.

AT&T to share the wealth because of GOP Tax bill $1000 bonus to 200,000
American workers and invest $1 billion.

Wells-Fargo to raise hourly pay to $15 and $4 million in philanthropic donations next year.

FedEx says due to tax plan will add $1.00, increase hiring.

Boeing to invest $300 million thanks to tax reform.

[davew]

POTUS yet to sign Tax bill and already.....

Fifth Third Bancorp announces plan to raise minimum hourly wage to $15 for all employees, and a one time bonus of $1000 for over 13,000 employees.

AT&T to share the wealth because of GOP Tax bill $1000 bonus to 200,000
American workers and invest $1 billion.

Wells-Fargo to raise hourly pay to $15 and $4 million in philanthropic donations next year.

FedEx says due to tax plan will add $1.00, increase hiring.

Boeing to invest $300 million thanks to tax reform.


Yes, but how is that going to help the middle class stay at home not working dimocrat family? and what is going to happen in 10 years when the corporation rate stays down and everyone elses' goes up even higher than now?

[woodtoo]

Yes, but how is that going to help the middle class stay at home not working dimocrat family? and what is going to happen in 10 years when the corporation rate stays down and everyone elses' goes up even higher than now?

Working people will have more money to give to charities like the dims.

Corporations will be so flush with cash they will give bonuses to every US citizen.

[boxcar]

POTUS yet to sign Tax bill and already.....

Fifth Third Bancorp announces plan to raise minimum hourly wage to $15 for all employees, and a one time bonus of $1000 for over 13,000 employees.

AT&T to share the wealth because of GOP Tax bill $1000 bonus to 200,000
American workers and invest $1 billion.

Wells-Fargo to raise hourly pay to $15 and $4 million in philanthropic donations next year.

FedEx says due to tax plan will add $1.00, increase hiring.

Boeing to invest $300 million thanks to tax reform.

Yeah...and wasn't AT&T at the butt end of nasty remarks by Schumer Was it Chuckles who said that during the last tax cut AT&T kept all the money and run...and laid off a gazillion workers to boot, etc.?

Anyhoo...all this goes to show the money is much better off in the cookie jar of the private sector than in the one in the public sector. Growing the latter does nothing for the former.

[fast4522]

Okay, for the benefit of the dim-witted..

Ralph just said he doesn't care about the deficit anymore.

Several months back, he also said he didn't care about the Russians or treason or anything as long as it resulted in "the destruction of the democratic party".

My reason for bringing that up after his deficit comment is just to remind Ralph we already know he doesn't care about pesky things like law or democracy or legislative process when it comes to forwarding his political agenda, because he has already stated as much.

I don't know why he or anyone would get defensive about it. It's not like he's not in good company around here..

And you buy JR's BS, he's just being kind to the mooks and not pouring gas on the fire. He is fully invested in this Trump Economy, he and his sharp wife are in business and actually have a payroll to meet that means jobs. The guy is like every other 60 year old putting one foot in front of the other being a good doer, you guys wearing your trusty knee pads today and that is the best you got?

[fast4522]

Here is another one for the number one mook.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-kcQvZY8ZE

[JustRalph]

And you buy JR's BS, he's just being kind to the mooks and not pouring gas on the fire. He is fully invested in this Trump Economy, he and his sharp wife are in business and actually have a payroll to meet that means jobs. The guy is like every other 60 year old putting one foot in front of the other being a good doer, you guys wearing your trusty knee pads today and that is the best you got?

Somehow that might be the nicest thing anybody has ever said about me.......Thanks! .:ThmbUp::lol:

[fast4522]

Somehow that might be the nicest thing anybody has ever said about me.......Thanks! .:ThmbUp::lol:

Well I see things in a different light, often in the current days light. Just wish CJ's Dad was here to add his two cents to today's events.

[JustRalph]

Well I see things in a different light, often in the current days light. Just wish CJ's Dad was here to add his two cents to today's events.

I’ve thought about him often. In fact I’ve reached for the phone at least once...... I’m glad you did too!

[fast4522]

This one is for CJ's Dad, hope others enjoy it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTo7MHDhh18

[Lemon Drop Husker]

One thing I find interesting from a lot on here is the concern with the national debt when Obama is president but when this tax plan comes out everyone is super happy at their savings.

Personally this plan will benefit me more than most but it's also going to accelerate our debt crises and this Administration hasn't even spent any real money on its agenda yet... :faint:

Far from true.

GDP at 4% covers. Heck, even debatable 3.3% covers, but.. keep rooting against growth and America

4.2% or so is more than great..., but...

...crap forbid 5%? We'll start cutting into Obama's doubling of our debt in doublefold like his sorry ass did the opposite.

[incoming]

If we don't have to drill there I'd be nice to leave it as is.

Why....there aren't any trees in Anwar ;)

[fast4522]

Why....there aren't any trees in Anwar ;)

Because millennials decide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3iBb1gvehI

[chadk66]

I'm going to stimulate the economy with my tax savings by buying the wife a new pickup to pull the horse trailer.:headbanger:

[elysiantraveller]

Why....there aren't any trees in Anwar ;)

I've been to that part of the world. There isn't anything like it. Sentimental honestly.

[fast4522]

We will become energy independent bigly because of Donald J. Trump.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

We will become energy independent bigly because of Donald J. Trump.

We have been dependent upon oil for decades.

And somehow 2017 changes your whole scope? :bang:

[fast4522]

We have been dependent upon oil for decades.

And somehow 2017 changes your whole scope? :bang:

Watch and learn.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAYydLBiTJ0

[Lemon Drop Husker]

.

[FantasticDan]

https://twitter.com/joyannreid/status/943655252716290048

[Lemon Drop Husker]

https://twitter.com/joyannreid/status/943655252716290048

For your sake, for your childrens sake.

Did you really just quote Joy Reid?:pound::pound::lol::D

[incoming]

We will become energy independent bigly because of Donald J. Trump.

Trump Train.....Blowing Black Smoke. With the elections starting to creep on too the horizon WINNING will start happening more frequently. The New Democrat Party are still following their crash and burn policies. :headbanger::popcorn::popcorn:

[Tom]

"The True Lesson of the Tax Bill: This Country Is for Rich People"
--------------------Some stupid twit on tweeter who couldn't find her arse with both of Matt Lauer's hands

[Tom]

I’ve thought about him often. In fact I’ve reached for the phone at least once...... I’m glad you did too!

I'd love to kick back with a few cold ones and review the year with him!

[kingfin66]

And you buy JR's BS, he's just being kind to the mooks and not pouring gas on the fire. He is fully invested in this Trump Economy, he and his sharp wife are in business and actually have a payroll to meet that means jobs. The guy is like every other 60 year old putting one foot in front of the other being a good doer, you guys wearing your trusty knee pads today and that is the best you got?

I am glad to know that justralph has overcome his disabilities. I remember him posting one time that he was disabled and feeling very badly for him, but happy that our country takes care of folks in that situation. Just remember, there are lots of "good doers" here regardless of political beliefs. There are lots of democrats and republican business owners. It is not unique to justralph no matter how good a person he may be (an very likely is).

[lefty359]

Really? Whenever Repubs want to cut spending the Dims line up to call them Scrooge; kids will die, Grandma will get shoved over the cliff, your parents will eat dog food. Sound familiar?

[boxcar]

https://twitter.com/joyannreid/status/943655252716290048

Good thing this country isn't for poor people, otherwise what incentive would the poor have to better their lot in life? To whom would they look to inspire them: Other poor people?

[fast4522]

I am glad to know that justralph has overcome his disabilities. I remember him posting one time that he was disabled and feeling very badly for him, but happy that our country takes care of folks in that situation. Just remember, there are lots of "good doers" here regardless of political beliefs. There are lots of democrats and republican business owners. It is not unique to justralph no matter how good a person he may be (an very likely is).

I have read every post JR has composed since his return, I doubt he ever admitting being disabled. I recall he was having some challenges with his eyes, but doubt his boots ever stayed in the house other than when Houston got flooded and I would bet that even got him to sit still. I was making no reference to democrats being lesser business owners or making the inference of them as bad doers. To me your just as big a dipstick as the mook that got me to write that post.

[JustRalph]

Eyes are still a challenge, old gun powder burns. But I function well enough.

I have an old back injury from a car accident that is the bane of my existence. I could probably qualify as disabled, and it was a matter of discussion for a long time. But I opted to just start working a different way. I work for myself mostly by helping my wife with her (our?) business and it’s been very rewarding. I can’t stand for long periods, walk more than a 10th of a mile without severe cramps etc but I still make myself useful. I don’t make a ton of money, but it’s better than sitting on my ass. My thyroid is functioning much better but it can still flare up. I could lay down......but my wife keeps me energized......

Thanks !

[JustRalph]

These guys keep me jumping too

And just think they just got a tax break!

[JustRalph]

https://twitter.com/SenateGOP/status/944278505805811713

[boxcar]

https://twitter.com/SenateGOP/status/944278505805811713

This news is more shocking than shock treatments to the brain! But even so, I'd bet CBS still doesn't get it.

[JustRalph]

https://youtu.be/VkTuz5oNMDg

Boeing will be more competitive

[FantasticDan]

https://twitter.com/ezraklein/status/943890727418855424

[fast4522]

Danny boy,

What you still have not been able to grasp is the fact that you lost, and did so big time. Your message is moot by any standard, President Donald J. Trump is only getting started. Everything Barack Hussein Obama did as President has been undone by President Donald J. Trump, just think that in less than one year from today of the new tax laws signing the amount of our agenda that will be pushed through and become law. Just think about that for a few moments, the sheer magnitude of liberal agenda being flushed down the sewer. Looking forward to hearing what you have next, because you guys sure as shit do not have the narrative and it looks bleak in regaining it.

[Ocala Mike]

Danny boy,

What you still have not been able to grasp is the fact that you lost, and did so big time. Your message is moot by any standard, President Donald J. Trump is only getting started. Everything Barack Hussein Obama did as President has been undone by President Donald J. Trump, just think that in less than one year from today of the new tax laws signing the amount of our agenda that will be pushed through and become law. Just think about that for a few moments, the sheer magnitude of liberal agenda being flushed down the sewer. Looking forward to hearing what you have next, because you guys sure as shit do not have the narrative and it looks bleak in regaining it.

Irrational exuberance, anyone? Has the thought ever crossed your mind that this could be the high water mark?

http://www.factcheck.org/2017/09/obamas-final-numbers/

If he undoes everything, we'll party like it's 2008 again!

[kevb]

Does anyone know if this tax reform affects deducting gambling losses from winnings

[boxcar]

Irrational exuberance, anyone? Has the thought ever crossed your mind that this could be the high water mark?

http://www.factcheck.org/2017/09/obamas-final-numbers/

If he undoes everything, we'll party like it's 2008 again!

"Factcheck" is a misnomer. They should call themselves Opinincheck.org. :coffee:

[fast4522]

Now that is a rational response Mike, now I can not dismiss your logic. But I can ask you if you completely understand what just happened. It should be very apparent that you guys are not dealing with the much weaker Bush's, and the much more malleable Mitt Romney or John Sidney McCain. With that I know Mike that you full well know what I am implying and you can not dismiss what I am saying either.

[Tom]

Really? Whenever Repubs want to cut spending the Dims line up to call them Scrooge; kids will die, Grandma will get shoved over the cliff, your parents will eat dog food. Sound familiar?

What I don't get is, how can everyone die from the tax cuts when everyone already died the day before over net neutrality?

Schumer/Pelosi - what they say, the opposite is true.

[Tom]

"Factcheck" is a misnomer. They should call themselves Opinincheck.org. :coffee:

And their CEO is none other than Baghdad Dan!:pound:

[boxcar]

And their CEO is none other than Baghdad Dan!:pound:

I wonder how the old guy is doin' these days...?

[JustRalph]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/454929/midterm-election-prospects-improve-trump-and-gop-tax-cut-bill

Kudlow on taxes

[Tom]

I wonder how the old guy is doin' these days...?

Personal advisor to HILLARY! :pound::pound::pound:

[boxcar]

Personal advisor to HILLARY! :pound::pound::pound:

Then neither one of them are doing very well. :coffee:

[boxcar]

Just a quickie update on how the Trump Tax cuts will impact my household income. Immediately, starting with our first IRA distribution this month, we'll be seeing over a $100.00 per month increase. And I know for a fact there will be more benefits than this but won't have a ballpark dollar amount until I see my accountant in a few months. But I'm thinking we'll get to keep at least 3K more annually of our money.

"Tax cuts for the rich", indeed... :rolleyes:

[Tom]

I'll until Dan and mostie weigh in and set you straight before I say.... :jump::jump:

[boxcar]

I'll until Dan and mostie weigh in and set you straight before I say.... :jump::jump:

They'll probably try to convince me that my more for 2018 will turn out to be less than my 2017 numbers -- that I've been duped by Trump's smoke and mirrors antics. :coffee:

[lamboguy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=poH9xgt7S0o